Ok, here's the thing. I'm a rather opinionated lass. I try to be honest, direct, straightforward, and impersonal. One of the things I'm looking at possibly trying to do in the new year is to comment more on images in the galleries. If I do, however, I will not do so in the "usual" form. I will take that small admonition in the box directly above the comment window quite seriously, and attempt to offer constructive criticism. However, if I do, I'm likely to set off a few folks there. no, not a few folks. A lot of them. I would do this stating with the Hot 20, of course. Being what is supposed to be a represnetation of the most popular images on the site (not the best, mind, you, but the most popular), one would expect they would be the best place to start. Now, this is good news for some folks -- if I were to do this, I would, of course, have less time to spend in the forum here. Now I ask the following question because based on what I've seen in threads on this site and around, many people do not want constructive criticism. They only want glowing praise. There is no mechanism, however, for selectively noting those. Unless it's specifically noted in the description that they only want glowing praise, then they may recieve a comment. (obviously, I'll only comment as I feel appropriate). So, given that potential for an "open season on Elle", should I? I have no problem with folks charging off and calling me names and such. And I can defend myself against verbal attacks and whatnot. I can take it, iow. But, well, should I? Is that something that rosity is still about, or has the community changed in that way? I don't know the "gallery crowd". I don't know if they are able to accept such stuff to the degree that the "forum crowd" is. I'm not talking about diving in and calling tripe on display the crap that it is. I'm talking about thoughtful observations and suggestions for improvement of the image overall. I'm not that sort of person. being oblivious to the "politics" of the gallery, before I go in and blithely start offending people, though, I thought I would at the least check in and be sure it's a reasonable idea. Now, I've never been called mean in the criticisms I have left. I have been thanked for them before. But, well, those were mostly a couple years ago, lol anyone?

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

I personally don't see anything wrong with veiwing an image and giving your full honest opinion of it,I wish more people would do so. and I also think so long as you are not being mean with your review,there is no reason anyone should take offence to you giving your honest opinion of their images,I know I wouldn't. but then,I don't spend alot of time on my images,most of the ones I have posted here are quick, non postworked renders of whatever product I'm working on. The3dZone

Funny YouTube video of the week - Bu De Bu Ai

You shouldn't. Despite their denials, they want unqualified praise. Anything else runs the risk of being misinterpreted and might hurt them.

I say do it, if only for all the complaints we'll get to laugh at from those who can't take constructive criticism.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

I say go for it... and I am LOL'ing at Lucifer's comment above :> cara

Praise is always nice for the ego but you don't learn how to improve or force yourself to attempt different things. Recently I posted an image that I thought was pretty good to a forum. Well, some members were kind enough point out some areas that could use improvement and also offered suugestions on how to do it. so I guess it's like you said, it depends on how the criticism is presented.

I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.

As long as it is in a respectful way then there shouldn't be a problem. If you feel they might not like it done publicly do it in a PM instead of in the Galleries. I personnally would love to get help to improve my art. :O) SndCastie Poser Moderator

Sandy
An imagination can create wonderful things

SndCastie's Little Haven

First off I don't have anything posted. However, If/when I decide to post images, it will be primarly for constructive criticism. I do not want to be praised just for the sake of praise. I do not have an ego that tells me how great I am and do not need others attempting to give me one. I have been a photographer for the better part of 30 years and have done cartoon pencil sketching since I was about 15 (that's almost 35 years now). While my photography has been a hobby, not a profession, I have taken classes and done everything from taking the picture to developing and printing. I see alot of very good work here and some that is not so good. I have been hesitant to comment on any of it based on the same reasons that you have stated. It is my opinion that if someone want's to display their work AND ask for opinions then they want honest opinions. However, I have seen many times where people get offended by the criticisim they receive when it it justified. On the other side of the coin, I have seen people tear others work apart just to be mean. This is just as bad IMHO. If everyone were willing to be civil about it then this could be the type of site that everyone would enjoy. Again all of this ranting is just MHO and I think you should pursue your task and see if others will follow suit. Pony

I wish you would. I wish more people would. But if you do, keep your asbestos underwear on, and your firewall up.

i'd say do it... but maybe to only the ones that state that they would like comments and critiques... if they put that they should be prepared for any kind of comment and/or criticism. i always put that on my gallery images (unless i was in a bad mood when i posted)... that i would like comments AND critiques... but rarely do people leave any.

And hey, thanks for the feedback to everyone! It really means a lot. SndCastie raises an excellent point, though -- it needs to be respectful, and some people may not feel that I always operate in such a fashion. (ok, so maybe I sneak a few insults in now and then in the forums blush) so here's an example of what I would write. It is an actual piece of criticism on a specific image in the gallery: Nice piece! Biggest stand out is the near relief of the tatoos and the strong lighting structure (something I'm drawn to). The hair is quite good overall -- a bit too high on the forehead, perhaps, and where it crosses the arms it has a much more painterly look than it does elsewhere. There is an odd lighting artifact in the upper left that perhaps a touch of postwork would help -- not misplaced, but just seemingly out of sorts. The texturing brings the whole scene to life most strongly -- great use of bump maps -- and a wonderful use of the programs. on the sphere, the lighting at the top also seems just a tad off -- it looks good, but the reflection is too much directly overhead -- perhaps more internal or around it to soften the "glare". particularly like the shadowing along the legs -- really accentuates the whole pose, which is very good, very iconic (obviously the goal here). one last thing: the chains along the undersides of the breasts look somewhat "plastic" -- highlights on them are a bit too soft, too evenly spread. Now, assuming the text box has enough space for such a lengthy assessment (unproven thus far), would that be too much?

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

YES !!!

... and have a Merry Christmas ...
(or whatever you may celebrate)
... and a Happy New Year !!!

with Holiday cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

As far as my gallery goes... Go ahead... It's what I'm asking for :-)

I'd say, go ahead when people are asking for it.

Message edited on: 12/24/2004 15:49

Yesterday's the past, tomorrow's the future, but today is a gift. That's why it's called the present.

"Now, assuming the text box has enough space for such a lengthy assessment..."

If I saw any of the comments you listed here, I would take them as they are clearly intended - constructive criticism to improve the image. No problem there at all.

This is strictly a hobby with me, but as with any hobby, I'd like to be good at it (long way to go yet!). So I would welcome such points. How else will I ever get better at this?

Steve

Those sound like realistic comments to me. I can't imagine someone becoming offended at any of those. The only ones I would have a problem with are those who expect someone else to conform to their ideas. Believe it or not, I have seen people complain that it's another fairy, another nude, etc. Of all the comments the only one I've ever asked anyone to remove was on the piece my 5 year old did in MSpaint. While I didn't expect comments and let's face it, you can't critique a 5 year old playing in paint, I didn't feel it was the place for someone to show their disdain at it's existance and my choice to display it.

Good luck on your new venture. :)

...... Kendra

yes, Kendra! See, while I don't mind seeing all the "wow, that's great, you are soooo amazing and talented and luv you" stuff, I do mind the "bah -- it sucks" stuff (aside from being pretty out of bounds given that little admonition right there, lol). As for a critique of a 5 year olds work, well, one does have to take the subject matter into hand. I am running into one issue, though. I'm sorta looking at some of the work of those who reply here. There is one who's work is very beautiful, and I'm certain there are things to improve on it, but I don't know enough of the subject matter to effectively comment. May have to learn a little here myself ;)

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

I'd like more constuctive suggestions on the images in my gallery. The examples that you offered were good at detailing the problems, but were you also going to offer more details to solutions in your comments? (The postwork and lighting suggestions were a good start) I know that is harder and more time consuming to do but it would achieve your goal better and I would think less ppl would be able take it the wrong way if you also suggested ways to fix the things that you thought were wrong with it.

Click to get a printed and bound copy plus T-shirts, mugs and hats

When possible, certainly. If not directly in the comment, then perhaps through links. My biggest issue is that I am, er, wordy... So an explanation of how to achieve something may not be possible within the confines of the commentary. However, I will most certainly look at additions that might allow that...

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Well I did a test comment for you and I got 7,603 characters into a comment that's almost 1,500 words so I doubt space is going to be much of a problem.

Click to get a printed and bound copy plus T-shirts, mugs and hats

well then, heckfire -- I'll start throwing the whole mess in!!!

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

"Opinions are like asshole- everyone has one and most of them stink" Take any 2 ppl to comment and you'll get 2 different answers I reciently learned when asking for crit of an image! Unfortunatly, this is not a science, so your opinion is no more valid then anyone elses. It's an art. Not being a science means there are no hard and fast rules and techniques that can be quantified and passed along to others. "Unless it's specifically noted in the description that they only want glowing praise, then they may recieve a comment. (obviously, I'll only comment as I feel appropriate)." This is playing with fire. But I'll grant you- it'll be entertaining to see how fast they lable you a troll, lol.

Commentary/advice like that in my gallery I would pay for -- if I had any money left after Christmas shopping day. Unless you'd take some of Geep's Poser cash? LOL! Sure, go for it.

I think Renderosity needs an option box like deviantArt has, to indicate whether the person wants real feedback or just mindless praise. If I knew someone actually wanted input, I'd be happy to give it, but until and unless I know for sure, I'm just not inclined to give it. Asbestos undewear aren't very comfortable. ;-) bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

Which is directly to the point. I've never shied away from fire (I'm a red headed aries, and was born on april fool's day. Sorta started off playing with fire...). But I'd like to know just how pervasive that kindling is. If I'm going to be waltzing through a bonfire, I'd at least like to know how thick the asbestos suit mentioned earlier should be. "...It's an art. Not being a science means there are no hard and fast rules and techniques that can be quantified and passed along to others..." This is a mixed bag. I agree that critiquing is an art. A good assessment may be utterly worthless to a specific artist, but it might not be to another -- it will depend on how close to the original intent of the artist the critic comes in their observations. That's part of the trick. However, I disagree that there are no hard and fast rules or techniques. There are always several ways of doing something, perhaps, but it is the act of doing it that is what would be offered principally. And that is usually hard and fast. It's unlikely, for example, that I would comment on renders that seek to achieve utter realism. For one, I do not see it as an artistic challenge so much as it is a technical one. Which is not to say that realism shouldn't be involved, but that there is a point where the act of trying for photographic realism moves beyond the goal of art as I see it. Given that, I'm unlikely to comment much on those aspects. Someone who's perception of that goal is different from mine would be more suited to an assemssment than I. But that's part of the point of an "art community". It's to help each other improve and grow as artists, not to simply pat each other on the back and say good job. Sometimes you need a prickly sort to step up and say "hey, it's not bad, but you could do it better this way". Someone who wants to improve their work, be it a hobby or a trade, is going to listen. Listening is not the same as acting, of course -- I expect plenty of my comments to be off the mark from the intent of the artist. It is unavoidable -- I am not the artist, and did not make the piece. But would they find value in my comments? Well, we'll have to see. I've dabbled a bit thus far today with a few here in this thread already. I too, am an artist. It stings to for poorly done crticism to be given. But I do listen to all of it. (sometimes perhaps too much, othertimes perhaps too little) I've benefitted from it, however, more often than I have not. And I'd like to be able to return that favor. And byrdie -- brace yerself, gal...

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

I don't mind constructive criticism or a decreased rating when it is fair. But its tough getting a "good" or "great" and a critique sometimes when you see things that are not as well done with excellent ratings, more hits, and more praise. Maybe its just me, but when you try to break the pin-up mold, I think you open yourself up to a lot more criticism. I just wish there was more consistency. Don't want you to think that in any way, your idea is bad though...

PBM -- you know, I agree. And, well, you told me a great deal right there that I needed to know, and thank you for it. Although I'm just one crazy gal, I can at least try. Given that, I will do one thing, however, that I should have done before, and that's avoid rating the image. I will vote for them still as I see fit (hey, that's still my perogative, and my votes will hardly EVER make a difference, lol), but, well, I will not rate the image. (I've always rated stuff according to my feeling. A good from me is saying a lot! But, I know that there is much invested in these images, and when people step outside the realm of what they have been doing to be greeted by such, well, it makes one think if you did the right thing, and then step up and ask to see just how bad an idea it was...)

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

you can tell me I suck (I know..but I'm getting better..well, a little) as long as you tell me why

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

A lot of ppl have different ways of learning, around here it does seem to be more from example and practice, since they see something cool and want to try to do it themselves. I've seen a lot of ppl here improve that way Part of it might be because of the lack of consistency in the rankings in comments or it might be because some or a lot more visual than literal (It is a visual medium after all) and they don't interpret the comments the same way they were intended

Click to get a printed and bound copy plus T-shirts, mugs and hats

In real life, I was taught when looking at someones work start with praise end with praise and put what needs to be said in the middle - people are more likely to listen. I love honest feedback on my work and have some commentors who will speak up and say what could be improved. I have done this on other peoples work to be thanked by the person but jumped on by their friends makes me hesitant to do it more often. I would say go for it and welcome you to my gallery lol I am a thick skinned Aussie and not easily upset in fact it is from critiques that I have learned what I have :o)

Handle every stressful situation like a dog.
If you can't eat it or play with it,
Pee on it and walk away

...a bit full of ourselves aren't we? "I'm a rather opinionated lass. I try to be honest, direct, straightforward, and impersonal. One of the things I'm looking at possibly trying to do in the new year is to comment more on images in the galleries. If I do, however, I will not do so in the "usual" form. I will take that small admonition in the box directly above the comment window quite seriously, and attempt to offer constructive criticism. However, if I do, I'm likely to set off a few folks there. no, not a few folks. A lot of them. I would do this stating with the Hot 20, of course. Being what is supposed to be a represnetation of the most popular images on the site (not the best, mind, you, but the most popular), one would expect they would be the best place to start. Now, this is good news for some folks -- if I were to do this, I would, of course, have less time to spend in the forum here. I can't believe it. You musta been drunk when you posted this.

absolute visual -- and I consider that wholly in my studies. I'm looking at color, construction, form, lighting, texturing, blocking, method, concept, and presentation. The basics of what makes us all better. As I do that, I consider methods employed, programs used, the style of the artist, the medium in play. I am not going to consider popularity of the artist. Or even my particular feelings towards them as individuals. Nor will I stick to my personal tastes and my own "comfort zone" (if I did, that hot 20 would likely be the last place I would look, and the image reviewed in my example would not have been such). But, well, if the artist takes the time to say they DON'T want a real and honest appraisal, then I'm willing to go beyond that. But if they do not do so -- if that comment box is there, and nothing says otherwise -- then it is an invitation. And I may well take them up on it. So far, the count is 13 to 2. I've done a few so far, and no one has thrown terrible rocks, or told me I've bruised them so far. I'm hoping the gallery folks will catch the linking thread and respond to this as well -- I spot a couple who have, so there has been some attention. Again, thank you all so far for the comments and good discussion -- please, keep letting me know.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

A bit? hell no. Jackson, you know damn well I'm a LOT full of myself....

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

I would really appreciate feedback like this. Especially if it focuses on specific things good or bad, like a lighting artifact, hair, hurried postwork, or whatever. If anything, knowing that someone would actually say something about the flubs, I'd probably spend the extra time needed to fix the stuff that I know is wrong before uploading it. In general though, I think you should only comment like this if the person asks for it or you know that they are open to it.

Go, go, go for it! I don't mind constructive critisim at all. As a matter of fact I think it helps to have someone view with a fresh eye and suggest improvements. That's how we work in our writing group. Even if the subject isn't of a paticular favorite style, honest critisim can be given. As for flamers, I ignore them. I know my work needs improvement and all suggestions are taken seriously and appreciated. Merry Christmas all.

Let me introduce you to my multiple personalities. :)
BluEcho...Faery_Light...Faery_Souls.

I'd be positively delighted by constructive critique. Looking at my own images feels like proofreading something I wrote myself. I may think it looks rather okay after staring at it for several hours but somebody else immediately sees the glaring errors. Also it is interesting to find out other peoples' reaction to my images - do they see what I think I put into it? As I'm just a beginning hobbyist I feel utterly unqualified to give critique except for the most obvious errors - like "her hand goes right through her hip" or something like that - and even then I feel a bit unsure - maybe they intended it to be that way lol

Just to note on what PBM had to say: "But its tough getting a "good" or "great" and a critique sometimes when you see things that are not as well done with excellent ratings, more hits, and more praise" I can't believe you've seen a "good" or "great" in any of the galleries, when I still allowed ranking, everything I posted was "excellent" and I think I've maybe seen one or two images on thsi site ranked less than excellent. I don't tend to bother using rankings when ppl allow them because I tend to think that rankings are crap ;> cara

I'll admit that I often avoid rating and only leave nice comments even if I find the work appauling. In past, I looked at everything. Now, I only click on the images that look like the artist is doing something different than a typical pin-up. I wish there was a nice way of saying, "your picture might actually be a good composition if you took the time to complete it" to some of the naked Vicki people. That's what a lot of these pin-ups look like to me...incomplete. Great lighting, great texturing, great posing... but the lack of clothes sometimes makes it not come together. I kind of like ysaen using the "good" rating sparingly and for the things she truly likes. I know that when I see something that I think was well done, I would like to be able to use a lower rating than the highest possible sometimes. But at times, I think that might be impolite. At the same time, I see a lot of people rating images "excellent" on the basis on TNA. I've only recented started allowing my images to be rated again because of this. I think there needs to be a disclaimer on the gallery about the rating system urging those who use it to be fair. And I think ysaen's thread points out that there are those of us who are artists and truly want feedback, and then there are others who don't. I may start becoming a little more assertive with want I say in the galleries as far as constructive criticism in order to encourage some to take their art to another level...

I actually saw an image in one of the galleries after my above reply where the artist requested that ppl not be critical so I didn't even bother commenting.

I don't understand any real artist (whether or not they are hobbyist or professional) having that sort of need for only praise, but whatever floats their boat I suppose.

I whole-heartedly support ynsaen's choice in being honest, but then, I fully admit to having issue with the way some things are "judged" on this site (which I've been vocal about in various forums) and even wrote a semi-saucy poem about it called ROTFLMAO

cara

Attached Link: I'm hoping this 1 will be up to standards

The level I've been trying to reach lately is good enough for a graphic design portfolio. I've never taken gallery comments very seriously since as geoegress said everyone has an opinion, but when it comes to showing ppl that you want to hire you it's a bit different. Most of the time art directors won't give any kind of feedback on whether they like your work or not so it's kinda hard to tell where you need improvements. Here is 1 I just completed that I'm planning on including. I also did 1 for Xmas that I thought fit in well and hopefully will impress ppl that are looking for this type of design while entertaining http://argon.glittzzzy.topcities.com/web/xmas/XmasFun.htm

Click to get a printed and bound copy plus T-shirts, mugs and hats

My personal preference, which I believe it is shared by many who post in the galleries, is to send suggestions in a private message rather than publically posting UNLESS the person has specifically asked for constructive criticism. If it's a very, very minor point to be made, and it's included in an otherwise very positive comment, publically probably is fine, but it sounds like you are interested in ripping people a fair amount and all you'll accomplish is creating alot of hurt feelings. Most people don't like to be criticized publically but are more than happy to listen privately, particularly if coming from someone they respect. I'm not sure what your motivations are for wanting to do this, but those are my two cents (worth just about that much). Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays to all here at Renderosity!

Check out my full gallery at Cliff-Dweller Artworks

Sometimes people post images here in the Poser forum asking for criticism. Why not have a forum just for that? You'd know clearly that the person wants some serious crits, no ambiguity or doubts and the forum format lensd itself to more interactivity, posting suggested improvements etc. moreso than the gallery I think. It weould probably also cut down on the purely trollistic comments.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Well Im not so sure I can tell you what you should or shouldn't do. Hell it's never worked before has it ;) lol I can say that I've had the privilege of Elle critiquing(sp?) some of my works and Im all the better for it. She's never been crass or rude, she's told me what she likes and doesn't like..plain and simple. Nothing personal about it. But I like that. So theres one opinion..may not help ya much as I know a few gallery people who would be offended at your above example. But I know I would prefer it alot more than I get it now. Isnt the whole point of enabling comments to hear what OTHERS think of your work? If you dont want to really know then dont enable comments...just my 2 cents! HUGS and Happiest Holidays to you all! Gina a.k.a Cimerone

or is that anasazi? (Ok, sorry, it was bad. I'm crazy, Weird humor) in any case: The reason for doing it in the comment area is that that, specifically, is what the comment area is for. The comments are not simply meant to aid the work under discussion, but also those who come along and view the work as well. Putting them in IM, aside from not affording me the requisite space, would defeat that purpose. also, it would not be my style. Aside from an occasional OT rejoinder, I do not use IM for such things, and frown on its use that way. I am not interested in "ripping people a fair amount". The reason I supplied the example was to show the sort of effort I meant. I am, however, aware that there are people who do "gallery stuff" and people who do "forum stuff" and that the "gallery people" (strictly generalizations, mind you) have cliques that are, well, less inclined to allow something approaching honest feedback on images. If I start this, I won't be too concenred about cliques and sentiments. I will be concerned with providing intelligent and thoughtful remarks designed specifically to improve the image. The person behind it will ultimately matter none at all -- meaning I'm not out to do it for political motivations. And as for my motivations: It is based on my desire to help improve the overall poser community. It is here that the greatest impact an be made and felt. Therefore it is here that I will do it. It is nothing more than I would do anywhere else, and nothing less than I already have done elsewhere. It is, however, something I would do -- that is, I would make an earnest effort at doing it. And your two cents must be in today's value, but only spendable a hundred years ago :) -- their value is much greater than you give them credence.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Excellent idea! Fully support it! However, until the powers that be see the wisdom of such a place, well, I'll have to make due witht he mechanism already in place for such a thing.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISISM: Your post in #11 is on target. Commendation before correction. Set the artist (we are all artists here) at ease. Assure the artist that the hard work is appreciated (unless someone has that advanced beta MAKE ART button), and where adjustment is needed. (I was going to say correction, but this is art we are discussing here and that is a subjective beast). Note that for thouse confounded shoulders, elbows and knees, there are post work options (so that should not be a major concern). I would for one like more instruction. I can ask for tips, but my postwork is not going to look like someone elses.(Despite my attempts to divine how some of that wonderful stuff is done for some images. I have Photoshop too and my stuff doesn't come out like some of the really spectacular stuff in the galleries. I am also aware that certain artists have a "style" or manner (trick? procedure? action(s), Make Art button) that they'd rather keep to themselves as a "trademark". Perhaps that is a separate issue.) Go for it, but as in your response in #11. If one leaves the comments field on, respond. If THEY don't like it.... If THEY thank you....

"Few are agreeable in conversation, because each thinks more of what he intends to say than that of what others are saying, and listens no more when he himself has a chance to speak." - Francois de la Rochefoucauld

Intel Core i7 920, 24GB RAM, GeForce GTX 1050 4GB video, 6TB HDD space
Poser 12: Inches (Poser(PC) user since 1 and the floppies/manual to prove it!)

not having space available at the link provided, I would be willing to offer some suggestions here, if you are serious.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Go for it, either here or in the guestbook on that web page (the button with the pen on it under the email button) would be fine.

Click to get a printed and bound copy plus T-shirts, mugs and hats

oh, it absolutely has to be constructive. That's the entire point to this. Anythign else would be one of those icky cow dung things that I just can't stand. And while I might mention the occasiona shoulder droop and stuff, it would be because it was something that was just too glaringly there. And style is something that, in general, I would try to grasp. A couple of my personal friends have a very distinctive and recognizable style to their work that makes it instantly recognizable as something of theirs. When asked by them to give my impressions, that's something I have to take into account -- it's the image that's the subject, not the maker of it. For tricks and advice, as I noted earlier, I will try to give some. Your particular postwork skills are far in excess of my own -- but then, I strive to avoid postwork at all costs. So my tricks would be more technical within the concept of using the programs. Although if I do hear of a cool trick, I'll be sure to pass it on!

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

ok. The flash is making it difficult for navigation of the site, so I need to know if you have put the image up here in the galleries (assuming you can). also, it would be somewhat lengthy. Your design strengths are satisfactory, but your compositional skills need some work. I have some ideas, but to really be able to illustrate them effectively, I would need to focus on a specific image which is still fairly fresh to you creatively, that you could go in and look at while referencing my comments.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

"or is that anasazi?" hehehe, sorry, I'm not smart enough to understand what that means... "I am, however, aware that there are people who do "gallery stuff" and people who do "forum stuff" " I agree, there are cliques, but they exist in both the galleries and the forums. I don't know you, so I guess it's just your style to offer opinions to people. I've only been here for about a year and I don't know alot of people and spend very little time in the forums. I'm sure you have a following here. From what what I've seen, the forums are a bit of a free-for-all and people's feelings aren't always of much concern when posting opinions. For myself, if I know that I may well hurt someone's feelings with my opinions, I prefer to keep it private. Regarding the space limitations of PM, gosh isn't it something like 5000 characters? I would think you ought to be able to distill your thoughts on an image down to 5000 characters. Some people who post images are not trying to be artistic, they're just trying to have some fun and share their efforts with the friends they have here. Why intrude on that? Still, even now that I have said all that, if you really feel it's your place to go through the galleries and "help" people, then I wish you well. Merry Christmas!

Check out my full gallery at Cliff-Dweller Artworks

anasazi are a cliff-dwelling people of the US southwest that pretty much had a thriving and pretty cool civilization quite a ways back that still holds a fascination for many people. The navajo and hopi, pueblo and paiute, and hohokam peoples all have ancestry that heads back to them at some point. One of my favorite "get aways" is one of their lesser ruins. Very quiet, peaceful and inspirational.

It's not smarts. Only reason I know about them is becuase I live where I do. If I lived elsewhere, odds are they would never be known to me, either.

"I don't know you, so I guess it's just your style to offer opinions to people."

True enough. Renderosity was started, and is set up, to mimic the RW "Artist Colonies", in many ways, where the purpose of being there is to expose yourself to other artists in the hopes of improving your craft and helping others to improve.

"I'm sure you have a following here."

I'm not certain it would be called a following. The people following me often have pitchforks, torches, and rope.

*"From what what I've seen, the forums are a bit of a free-for-all and people's feelings aren't always of much concern when posting opinions.

For myself, if I know that I may well hurt someone's feelings with my opinions, I prefer to keep it private."*

Sometimes, yes, they are. The vast majority of the time, however, the opposite is true. There are a heck of a lot more posts that are simply someone needing help and getting it, or a few folks joking around, or someone finding out something cool and sharing it than the flamefests. 95% or the time, at least, it is the feelings of others that drive the concerns in the forums.

In effect, I am extending that sense of helping others to the galleries.

I'm just hoping I don't take too much of the 5% otherwise with me.

On the otherhand, I won't worry about hurting someone's feelings. My assessments won't be personal. If people choose to take them as personal attacks, then they won't actually be looking at what I say, they will be looking at something else.

And, of course, if they don't want such things, they do not have to enable the comments, or they simply need to state only praise, please.

IM's do not have 5000 character limits. They have 2000 character limits. And, frequently, no, I cannot distill my thoughts accurately down that far. I never did take that evening news journalism class, darn it. 5,000 think I can manage -- which is apparently the limitations of the comment field.

Now, what's really cool, is that as you were typing your response, I was starting on one called in defense of those only wanting praise.

and then I read your post, and you said:

"Some people who post images are not trying to be artistic, they're just trying to have some fun and share their efforts with the friends they have here. Why intrude on that?"

And it is exactly the point i was in the process of making.

And I do not want to intrude on that. However, there is no methodology for me to be able to distinguish those particular people from others that is built into the renderosity software. So it will be up to them to signify through some means that they are doing that -- either by not enabling the comments field or by making some sort of statement to that effect in their credits or what have you.

or, of course, they could realize that the comments are not intended to interrupt their play or distract them, and simply ignore them.

The rest of my post, saying the same thing, though, was about how their doing that is perfectly fine, and that they should not be condemned or looked down on. Becuase often, from their wonderful enthusiasm, one can learn neat little tricks and get some cool ideas -- and besides, there's never, ever anything wrong with play.

We all need to do more of it.

I just don't always do it well with others. My doctors say it's congenital...

Message edited on: 12/24/2004 23:17

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Ahh, yes I recognize the "anasazi" reference now. Thank you!

Well, enjoy yourself!

I, for one, will be sad if people start turning off comments out of fear of receiving one of your very public and unsolicited 5000-character critiques.

Merry Christmas!

Message edited on: 12/24/2004 23:37

Check out my full gallery at Cliff-Dweller Artworks

yvw! I just happened to really like the name, and it made me think of them. :) Well, I seriously doubt that little ole me will have that sort of impact. But one never knows. I sorta hope it will make for a lot more really good pictures. And Merry Christmas :)

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

I think it's always helpful to me when if someone likes one of my images that they give a little explanation as to what it was that they liked about it. And I do appreciate helpful comments for improving because, as was stated above, sometimes you look at something so long you don't see the areas that need improvement and it's always nice to have fresh eyes to see with. I did like the way you combined praise with helpful comments of where improvements could be made. As for ratings, it's such a habit for me to click that box each time that I do so without thinking. And as also has been said, they really don't mean much in the scheme of things and I will try to remember not to check mark that box! I have no problem with someone leaving comments to better my work. Or, if you like it, leaving a comment as to why. I have to admit that I do get more comments in that area, especially when it comes to lighting, composition or my "style", and that lets me know what caught the viewer's eye and if I've achieved what I set out to do. I rarely do postwork on my images beyond the fixing of a joint or bend because my goal has always been to do as much as I possibly could within Poser itself. For me, that's the challenge. Merry Christmas right back at ya!

FlyByNight

The only way you'll know, is when you do it. I agree, it should make for some good reading, here in the forum. If your skin is thick enough, go for it. I remember my first critique on my very first image. I didn't think it was that bad. I also didn't know what post work was either. LOL. Now, I don't get many comments, but I leave whats said. If it has any real value I'll think on it, if not, Oh Well. Quote " I can't believe you've seen a "good" or "great" in any of the galleries, when I still allowed ranking, everything I posted was "excellent" and I think I've maybe seen one or two images on thsi site ranked less than excellent." Have you looked anywhere besides the top 20? Guess I must be real bad, I don't have everything rated as excellent. When I get a comment or rating that is. What's that saying, " It's great to be good or good to be great?"

I think that if you want to comment then do it, if you don't want then do not. I am opened for comments and always enable comments and rating of pictures, on the other side I rarely post a comment.

Stupidity also evolves!

Go ahead and do it! I'm still learning this game and frankly I could use a lot more of the feedback you're talking about - not just to point out errors but, if possible, to suggest ways forward. Whilst the odd 'well done' is very gratifying, it would help me progress a lot faster if more folk would pick apart what I'm doing now. So, speaking for myself, I'd consider it a favour if someone took the time to that - they would get words of thanks, not anger!

That's what the bloody comments thing is FOR!! :] Fish

Jumping in kinda late here..... but it really is quite simple. If people don't want constructive criticism they don't tic the comment box. End of story. I, for one, look forward to such comments and usually solicit them openly, either in my comments area or one of the e-mail groups I belong to. That said (and holding on for dear life), I welcome any and all constructive criticism on any of the renders in my modest gallery.

<-insert words of wisdom here->

what you see in your mind , might not be what the person that created the image sees in theirs, your lights should be brighter, the shadows are to dark...maybe the lights and shadows are exactly how the person intended them to be. Basically the constructive criticism here is telling another person, how you would like their pic to be done. If you like the pic fine, if not move on, unless asked for critiques. This is only on my own experience, but those that have left criticisms for improvment on my pics,should be asking me for help and not offering it. Just being honest, i know that's not popular here these days. :(

ynsean, Oh boy, that new year is going to ring in with a bang. heehee. It depends on what you would have fun doing. The galleries aren't really great for criticism, only cuz most people post their stuff to show it off. Depite the rendo box/text I don't think many artists post for critiques. Sometimes I would send ideas to the artist via IM instead. Merry Xmas Anton

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

If you ever view any of my renders please feel free to comment on how to do things better, that is how we learn isnt it. Im sure there are things that someone else sees that I missed or may have not even thought about. Ed

I prefer public critiques. This is supposedly an art site. If art critique doesn't belong here, I don't know what does.

If it's out in the open, everyone can read it, including others that might benefit from the advice. It can also be a "reality check" on the critique. Others can offer their own takes, whether supporting the criticism or supporting the work as it stands. (My personal rule of thumb: If one person doesn't like it, well, that's just one opinion. If two people don't like it, it could be just a fluke. If three people don't like it, change it immediately. ;-)

Jumping in REAL late here..... Yanno, I noticed there was a complaint about a critisim someone gave another artist about their render. The critique was in good taste, nice and polite and while it was constructive critisism, the person who commented also pointed out the good as well. By the way the artist and some had taken the pros and cons of the work, it was the end of the world, and in their next piece they claimed how they were going to disable their comments, all because they felt they were being picked on by that one comment. Surely the only purpose in marking the comments box isn't to get glowing praise. Personally, thats why I mark the comments box. Not that it isn't nice to get praise, but it is also very nice to hear how I can improve. Sure there are going to be people who take it to a whole new extreme on both sides...people being too touch about a comment to improve, or someone being completely anal and nit picking a piece you did to death, but most the critique comments I have seen are in good taste and very polite, and they point out the good things too. I say more power to ya....and maybe this isn't just you should be doing, but everyone else as well.

Thanks for the critique of my "Serpent Mage" pic, ynsaen. I just IM'ed you about it but thought I'd say here that this is exactly the sort of the thing I'm looking for when I check the "make comments" box. Very helpful and I certainly appreciate the advice you gave and will keep it in mind. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and a prosperous New Year!

Message edited on: 12/25/2004 12:30

I prefer public critiques. This is supposedly an art site. If art critique doesn't belong here, I don't know what does. hey, that was well said! Anton, thank you :) yeah, I don't think a lot of people do realize what that box says. Being the "crusading" sort, though, maybe I can remind 'em? Over the last few years, the forums have gone from being fun, silly places to being serious, on into racous and ugly, and now have begun to "mature" into something better than they were when the place first started (and this is most especially true of this one). Even this last septemeber wasn't all that bad (though november sucked a bit), and the last big blowup was actually really calm, all things considered. Time to take some of that growth into the rest of the site. While this once was an artists community, it is now an Art Community, which means the focus is no longer on the people, but on the work. And there are all these other sites out there, many of whom condemn renderosity as some sort of pisswater that doesn't give a damn about talent and embraces the skin of the moment. Well, I disagree. Strongly. And, since I'm not able to do much else, lol, I figure I'll do my part this way. It won't mean diddly in the long run, but it will certainly make me feel like I'm contributing to the community more, and hell, it might help some others. Might hurt a few too. But as that crazy man who has such great taste in clothing said in a movie many moons ago: you can make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. Bwahahahahahahahahaha

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Very welcome, Byrdie.
And thank you, very much. Despite the thick skin, dense skull, and slightly acidic blood, I don't actually want to hurt people.

Well, not much. Edit: missed the IM so far, but the system's a bit flaky of late.

Message edited on: 12/25/2004 12:36

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

thanks :) The example you gave is why I'm asking. Before I do this, I want folks to know that I am not to either extreme, for one, and I want to guage how pervasive that sort of mentality is. And I agree, too -- it would be Really Nice if a lot of people did this. Might take six months, but I fell very, very certain that if enough people did it, then the spirit would change, and the galleries would become something to take much more seriously, while still allowing for a lot of the fun :)

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

re: beryld - I go through the Writer's and Poser galleries the most and I am serious, on ranked images (even one's I think are "good") I think I've only seen one or two marked LESS than excellent... I do also view the "all galleries" when I've got extra time as well :> annemarie2: I do believe what you are referring to was in response to comments I've made on certain images... and if that is so, you'll note the artist has basically said "no critiques" without straight out saying it on a more recent image they've done. cara

The more I read, the more I think about. If you happen to be a person who agrees more with cliff-dweller than myself, for example, then speak up. Present your thoughts. And if you don't well, let me know that, too. I'm slowly going through and sort of "practicing" this with a few of the posters who have specifically said they would like it if I do so (but not those who are saying otherwise). Takes a good 30 minutes to consider an image, another 15 to write something approaching an intelligent assessment, then another 15 minutes of checking the two to be sure nothing is overboard (I'm not trying to wreck an image, I'm trying to make it better). So I can't exactly do a lot of them. I'm also going to really only do it to images that capture my attention. So if you have been hit by me so far -- let me know if it was of value or not, and if I touched any nerves (even if only a little). Heck, I want to do this well.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Are you going to do the Writer's Gallery too? cara

I should; probably will. The problem is that there the work is closer to my own, and the nature of literary criticism is very different from that of visual art crit. I can achieve a bit of distance from visual art. I don't hae an urge when I see pictures to really try and make it myself over again to do it better -- indeed, I'm more often inspired to write something by what I see visual (such is the case with the anniemation piece I'm evaluating right now). I can't say the same about writing, though. Means that I'm not going to be as objective, and I'm reticent to endeavor to do things where my objectivity is limited. This would be really brought to the fore by much of the poetry in the writers forum. I am fairly certain I would not be able to maintain an effective objectivity when faced with some of the poems, as I tend to be too great a purist there myself, and would not be able to effectively offer effective criticism of the non-linear, meterless works. Outside of the poetry, however, I might just hit a few, lol. Mostly, however, I will stick to the poser gallery, venturing into some of the others as time ad opportunity are afforded me -- I still have to stay within the bounds of what I know, and critiquing a cinema 4D piece is a bit outside my scope technically -- all I would be able to address is the core elements visually.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Quick thoughts.... Right now comments, let alone lengthly comments, look out of place in the galleries. The nail that sticks out tends to get hammered down -- which translates to those people who attempt a complete an honest critique getting a lot of flack in return. What we need is for critiques to not stand out. I think I've seen a little more lately -- which might be more due to me leaving the main galleries alone and concentrating more on the SF and historicals, wherein are artists more used to the critical proccess. The other is that critiques are even harder to digest then they are to make. I'd reccommend finding one or two strong, clearly identifiable problems, with fairly straightforward solutions. It's easier to swallow a couple bitter pills then to sit down at a bowfull of them. Of course not all artists or images will have such. I can think of one who came to chat, for instance, who did not understand perspective in the most basic way. She could not be helped with a "try a lighter background and turn on anti-aliasing" approach. In the perfect pedagogical manner, of course, one points at the problem and leads the student to find their own solution. When I critique I am usually careful to phrase something like "..I have seen other artists solve this with..." or "...if this were my image I might....but I don't know if this would work for you."

Yes. Please. Pretty please. Constructive criticism with suggestions for improvement is always, always appreciated. One note though: Keep in mind the gallery the item is posted in. Artists posting in Product Showcase are probably more concerned with comments about the product, as opposed to the technical detail of the picture itself (as an example). Although I'd love for you comment on anything I've got posted.

I have just read your comment on my image, over my morning coffee lol, and you certainly know what you are talking about :o) You found my weakness - complete scenes - an area I am working on my other weakness is interaction between characters. until recently I have stuck to the safety zone of portraits and plain backgrounds but I learn nothing this way. I will re read your comment often - thank you Chris :o) ps don't you just hate them poser joints rofl

Handle every stressful situation like a dog.
If you can't eat it or play with it,
Pee on it and walk away

I got a critique today, too. An unexpected Christmas present. :-) The first problem she pointed out was in fact something that bugged me about the image from square one. I just didn't know how to fix it. (She offered a suggestion I hadn't considered.)

no muse -- yeah, that's why I liked the earlier suggestion of a place specifically for that sort of work. But, until we get one (and the only way to do that is to prove to them that one is wanted and would be used, lol). pdxjim -- True. My plans right now are to stick mostly to the poser gallery itself, as that's the area I'm going to tend to frequent. Chrislenn -- absolutely hate them, lol. I'll spend more time futzing with those damn joints than I will lighting an image! That's the sort of thing I'm wanting to do, and I'm very glad it worked for you. Randym77 -- dynamic cloth might work, too. That's strand hair!!! Holy cow! That's awesome! I'll bet that took some time! And again, thank you! My best friend is online and my family has come over, so I'll likely be off for a day, but I'll come and check in off and on ;) huggs and merry christmas to all!

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Here's what I do, Ynsaen, and I've never been called a troll or made people too mad. Many have actually thanked me. #1 I first always mention something good about the render-- if there is nothing I can say good about the render, I move on and say nothing at all, it's too bad to comment on. #2 I gently comment on the most offensive problem, knees cracking, cloth/hair poke through, shadow problems-- mentioning I've done this often myself. #3 If the render is a good one but needs a different perspective-- like an interesting camera angle, better lights, I'll mention that, suggest some possibilties, if I can, If I can't I honestly say I don't know how to fix this that or the other thing. I limit my comments to three to four issues-- including the good ones, which can be considered one if there's lots that's good-- because most people, including me can't keep more than that in their heads and too many thngs wrong sounds like everything was crap. Other than that, kindness, honesty, humility-- in that you don't sound like you'r the greatest renderer of all time telling a poor newbie how to fix their pathetic shit, are the key points. Try to only comment on work you have some respect for, and let that respect show-- people will listen. And if they don't, you have done your best. Never hurts to say it too often-- Always begin with What Is Right in the Render!! Go for it, kid, you have kindness in your soul and honesty to burn. You are also IMO eminently respectful, let that show and you can insert helpful criticism in the galleries without doing harm. Or starting a war. Emily

Me, I'm all for constructive criticism. If it can't be helpful then don't bother is my thought lol. Now having said that, I do like praise but only if it is deserving.

Constructive criticism is the reason I post images. I know that in my case, I am literally "too close to the work" to see where it really needs help; that's where I depend on the observer to help me out. And, if that observer is as skillful as Ynsaen, then I am very thankful to get the suggestions without having to pay a consultant's fee. If I were afraid that someone would/will trash my images, wouldn't I be foolish to hang the picture on the wall in the first place? Ynsaen, if you were to post comments about an image of mine that pointed-out where improvements could be made, I would be happy that you had taken the time to look, and then I would be grateful for your instruction. Isn't this called 'teaching'?

CONSTRUCTIVE criticism,yes as long as suggestions on how the percieved problem(s)can be fixed are given as well. Happy Yule

Thanks for the critique of one of mine, ynsaen. This is exactly the sort of thing I'm after (I also responded by commenting to your comments - I think that's the best place to do that rather than by IM, unless of course you have a specific beef with the author).

Steve

@queri: I absolutely agree with you. I only comment on pictures I like somehow. Sometimes I would make things differently and I do suggest that. On the other hand, I do it the way you do it. @ynsaen: You can always comment on the pictures in my gallery. I love constructive critics. This helps me improving. Sometimes I may see it differently, but that's ok. It also helps if one not only says 'this is bad', but also gives practicle hints on how to improve it.

Re: "Should I or shouldn't I?" Um ... maybe ................ only your hairdresser knows for sure. (exits rapidly - stage left ... touche, all the way, ... etc., etc., etc. ...) ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

ynsaen,

Sorry, couldn't resist it.

;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

cagewench:) how perceptive you are :) Yes I was refering to comments you had made and the "tar and feather" response you seemed to get from them. Your comment didn't deserve the lashing out you took over it. I do truly believe that if someone doesn't want any kind of critique they need to disable the comments. I don't need to be told what I should or shouldn't say in my comments about anothers work as long as I am polite and civil....so I will continue posting what I want to say, regardless of whether or not is what others want to hear. I hope you do the same:)

That I shall :> What kills me in a certain circumstance is that ppl get pissy when you make honest comments just because everyone else is being over-the-top with superficial (and often undeserved) praise, because it makes the honest comments look nasty. And re: that person, I've commented on most of that person's images since I joined the site and it's not like I made some radical change in how I commented, other than no longer using :) faces after I got a couple of persnickety IMs :> cara

I would like constructive criticism on my renders. I'm fairly new to Poser...well I've had it about a year, but I still feel very much like a newbie. I haven't done a ton with it yet, but I feel like I am making some progress from when I started.

I have P4. The problem is many times I sorta know what is wrong, but I have no idea how to change/fix etc whatever it is :(

One of my renders (ironically the one with the most views I think..I haven't looked at my gallery in a while) I know what the problem is (no shadows), but I didn't know how to do them even though several people made suggestions about having shadows.

So I would like constructive criticism along with some clue on how to actually implement fixes.

Emily -- that's pretty much my general habit -- I work off the perception of if someone were to critique my work, what would be useful to me. I do try to make it useful stuff. OTherwise the point to it seems more akin to being a movie critic, and one can fall into that trap all too easily. pteryx, Thanks :) I don't know how much I can actually teach, but heck, if I can get more good pics to look at, I'll be thrilled. Spedler, yvvw!I shall check out your response soon :) Singular3D, the best thing about this sort of stuff, as well, is that if you, as the artist, see things differently, then, heck, there's no harm, no foul, and no hurt. Often, critics will miss the point of the artist's effort. It then behooves the critic to pay more attention to the artist in turn. Geep -- remind me not to give you the name of my hairdresser. hee hee. Strixowl -- yep. That's the challenge that I have. Towal, I'll give it my best shot :) I know that when I was first finally posting stuff, I ended up having to go elsewhere for good advice -- and I'd been using poser about two years already. My efforts were terrible. Truly. It was only conscious effort on my part to learn the basics of art, and to get specific criticisms on those elements, that I finally began to improve. Time for me to sorta repay that favor.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

I am just getting to where I actually can pose things (sorta) on my own. It takes me hours to do a pose sometimes and I know that some of that is because I'm doing things the hard way probably.

I am starting to learn better what moves what and how so it's worth it. I still use a lot of premade poses to get me started though.

I enjoy the program. I have spent way to much on it for what I do, but at least this collection doesn't take up physical space in the house much to my husband's delight ;)

It usually takes me days to complete one render (I'm always sorta shocked when people are upset about the 1 upload per day. I can't even manage 1 render a day that I feel is worth posting 3 would be out of the question), but I have fun doing them (for the most part) and really that is all that matters to me.

If I can improve I would certainly like to, but as long as I have fun doing it and I enjoy my renders even though they are imperfect that is what is most important in the long run, I think.

If you do get time to look at any of my pictures I will certainly take what you say in the manner which it is given and not as a personal attack.

I think my later renders have fair improvements over my start..at least they have shadows now ;)

My friend is the world's suckiest artist. And when you tell him his art sucks (and it really does), he gets inspired to create even suckier art. Go figure.

Towal, You may already be doing this, but just in case... I've found I can pose quicker when I use the dials than when I use the tools. I've also found that applying symmetry saves time in certain poses. Finally, I've found that turning IK on and off as required can significantly speed things up. ynsaen I love constructive criticism. One of my regrets is that the animation section isn't set up for it. Sometimes I've used IM's to offer suggestions but I rarely post criticism in the gallery. Of course, that could be because I rarely go to the gallery. I can usually find something I like about an image, so when I do offer criticism, I address both the good and the 'other.' I do my best to make sure and emphasize that it's merely my opinion and speak 'tentatively' ("I think it might be a bit more dramatic if you... ...assuming that's what you're going for."). I don't mention any 'other' without a suggestion for how I'd improve it. I also say 'why' I think it would be an improvement. That is, unless someone is asking about a specific thing, in which case I may simply address that. Some people say - in the comments section of their image - that they welcome feedback. Those would be the ones most likely to be receptive to constructive criticism. There's probably enough of them to keep you busy for a long time. I love red hair!

Before they made me they broke the mold!
http://home.roadrunner.com/~kflach/

I'd welcome your comments. Another viewpoint is always useful, even if I disagree with it.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

Noted, SamTherapy. I get free time again tomorrow, so I'll keep going through the respondents as I see what comes out down the line :)

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Here's an example of what can occur though when you are honest... my comment on an image in the Poser gallery: "The darkness and the dark colours are nice... The pose from the breasts up looks good, from below the breasts and to the tops of her interesting footwear though, it looks a lil off. Mainly the pose of the left leg in the hip and crotch area. Nice use of shadow on the right palm and lighting on the left one." which resulted in the following comment made by the artist in the comment area of the image: "Thanks everyone much appreciated 1 neg doesn't matter guys hugs to all and mods do not delete any comments without letting me know why:) everyone has a right to their own opinion thanks" And an IM I received from the artist as well: "...most of the time I do not adjust their work mainly because they have some strange poses and can't change them to much without really messing them up and didn't on this one not with the tendrils frankly not really sure who's poses they were thats why I did not list them as it is I try to get the main people . I know your only trying to help but I really wish you just message me instead of pointing out every little tiny bit of what you consider incorrect. we all have our own likes and dislikes so your one out of 37 positive ones doesn't really matter.. so many have message me and think those kind of comments are funny oh well each to their own I guess I certainly am not trying to get you mad at me I think you still are and always will be to bad too we could have been good friends. We are all here to have fun and enjoy each others work sadly some do not see it that way." so, just be prepared :> and, no, I'm not saying who the artist is and I did cut out the identification of who the artist said created the pose that they used in their image. cara who, for the record, does not dislike the unnamed-artist... just thinks that said artist needs honest comments

and a p.s. to clarify something in my above reply... I think that where the unnamed-artist says: "and mods do not delete any comments without letting me know why:)" is in ref to the fact that on an older image, someone related to the artist by marriage later commented and called me a "sick-o" which resulted in my asking a mod to delete the comment since it was personal rather than about the image... :> cara

I rarely post in the gallery. Part of the reason is the sheer volume of new stuff that is added each day. It's easy for your new stuff to get totally lost, quickly. I rarely visit the galleries for the same reason: way too much stuff, and I don't have the time to keep up. The biggest problem in the past has been that far too many people just don't grasp the concept of "Constructive Criticism." If you say something like "Your image looks crappy," that is not constructive. Some people will just never understand, no matter how much you try to explain. If I do visit the galleries, I don't feel compelled to leave an exhaustive criticism. Maybe I just like the way it looks, or the sense of humor. When all is said and done, I spend more time working with Poser, fixing and organizing things than I do "making pictures," and most of the images I make are never seen in any gallery.

I usually have a limited amount of time to comment, so that means I usually comment on something that I'm really impressed with, or if a new user has asked for comments that would help them improve. It's very rare that I comment otherwise.

Well I posted a new one...and it is my first attempt at cloth painting by hand...so everyone please feel free to comment and give any advice ya can lol I am gonna need it.

Cage...sorry you are catching the raw end of that deal...it would seem that some only want glowing praise when they mark the comment box, unfortunately we are not all mind readers. Maybe 'osity needs to make a little check box for that when uploading pictures.

Please place your comments, BUT only if it is to say how wonderful my picture is....if you point out anything wrong we will take you out back and beat the crap outa ya! (sounds kinda tacky huh?)

Message edited on: 12/29/2004 16:47

Being dissed as in the example provided isn't an issue. It looks like the person in the example would be what is considered unarmed collateral. Fairly obvious a nerve was struck. In general, I don't post often to the galleries here, myself. At present, I have a gallery here, at RDNA, and then I also have pretty much the full run of the galleries at Odd Ditty Foundry, as well. So what little I produce that isn't already owned by someone else is usually experiments and tests. But I learned a great deal from looking at the good stuff here. Once I learned the basics -- composition, color, lighting, blah blah blah -- I was able to study the best stuff available here and learn things. Good place to learn. So when someone does decide that my critiques are of the "sicko" variety, and forgets the motivations behind my doing so, well, they are most certainly entitled to their beliefs. Sanity does strange things to people. (and ya'll know that if they jump me, I'm likely to reach around and bite.) The sheer volume of images is why I don't expect that little ole me, by myself, is going to have much of an impact on the galleries as a whole. We're talking about maybe 12 images a week. If 9 out of those 12 people find my efforts to have been of service to them, well, that's enough to justify it in my mind. And because I will only be able to check 12 or so images a week, I will most likely only comment on those images which attracted my attention. For my part, I am reaching outside of the normal bounds of my personal tastes. Such is the task I have set for myself in the new year. It joins my "real life" (which, oddly enough, is mostly online), Odd Ditty Foundry, Wyrlde: The Bleak Journey, RuntimeDNA, some efforts here outside of that one, forum trolling through here, DAZ, and Faeriewylde, and whatever new and exciting opportunities the new year may bring. It's a full plate, to be sure. But I've got a big appetite for it. Now to see if I can stomach it all...

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Should I or shouldn't I?