Now all the pieces are falling in the right places. The Maximus project was stopped because there would be no way he could sell it properly if M3 was scheduled to be free in 2005. That's among other things he couldn't "talk about the why". This move of DAZ it's very bold and it certainly could broad the customer base but with a single stroke has killed all the other attempts of alternative figures. What would become of Seraphira project?

The Seraphia project is a new mesh with its own innovations that, if it works, put it past Vicky in any current incarnation. Besides, Anton should be thankful... if by some odd miracle he knew this was about to happen, at least he knew far enough ahead of time to not waste too awful much effort on it (though nearly a year of sales would still make his project worth the development effort, so I sincerely doubt that's why he stopped the thing.) We now return you to your regularly scheduled program - "Concert on Grassy Knoll", with Joe Triffid and His Band. (what? I simply HAD to...) /P

Michael 3 and victoria 3 are not so great that they are the only figures anyone wants so other figures can still be made even if they are similar.

I suppose it was only a matter of time before someone chose to revive dead and potentially controversial issues as the result of DAZ' generous strategy, but I'm surprised at how little time it took. Less than three hours. I can't speak for Anton, but as someone how has spoken to him privately at length, believe it's fair to say that he probably wouldn't appreciate learning that strangers are speculating about his attitudes or biz matters that have long since been put to rest, especially while he's away from home and doesn't have regular access to Renderosity. Just a thought in the spirit of fairness. :-) If one thinks one has a new clue as to his "attitudes," one might have tried contacting him privately about it, if it really matters. Or, one could simply say "thanks, DAZ!" and let sleeping dogs lie. I just hope Anton hasn't given up entirely on the Poser community and content creation, I miss his ace talent.

For some of use, the full unimesh resolution is awkwardly heavy on memory use, and adding RAM isn't as cheap as it might be. Not for a hobby, anyway. So there's scope for less resource-heavy figures.

They are free for now, but what certainly the next generation of figures aren't going to be. Plus, there is still a need for male figures and M3 still has the shoulder problem...

Thanks, DAZ! Carefully steps over the sleeping dogs.........

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Please don't mislead my intentions. I know very well the history of Anton, his contributions to the poser community and all. He has his motifs and the decisions are solely his own but I was looking forward for his figure and certainly didn't like that he was almost forced to put aside and the reasons and the why leave me a bad feeling around the issue. I'm sure not to be the only one. So when I see that M3 was turned in a free figure the why was certainly clear. He and Maximus project get between the gears of the DAZ machine. I'm worried about the future of third party figures. Maybe many of us certainly think that V3 and M3 could be better than they are now and less resource hungry, but they are very well crafted and are the "standard" in the poser community so if you get them for free you could wait for a long time before thinking of buying another figure. I like the Seraphira figure also but even many of us would buy it as soon she hits the MP how much sales could that really mean. You get my point?

I tried to email Anton a couple times to tell him about this thread, but I think he doesn't have an internet account right now and isn't in a big hurry to get back online. As far as Kaimira is concerned, I think if plenty of people pledge not only to buy her but also support her in terms of freestuff and marketing content, she will hold her own against V3 because of the unique quality of the mesh.

What's so unique about it? I've seen the threads about it, but it wasn't clear to me what's different about it.

I wish Maximus were available. I'd buy him in a hearbeat. Then put him on the Mil Horse; at least one of them would bend correctly :) {and it ain't the horse}. Never let it be said I overlooked the opportunity for a dig.

I'm worried about the future of third party figures.

Technically, all of the DAZ Mil figures are "third party figures".

It's just that DAZ has managed to set such a standard that the true "first party figures" (Don, Judy, et al) -- are virtually ignored.

I've seen the threads about it, but it wasn't clear to me what's different about it.

((Errr....anatomically correct?))

I think that Kaimira holds some promise. She might be -- I say "might be", we won't know until we've actually seen it -- she might offer some variety over the standard "V3 look".

Different morphs. Different overall body shape.

I am interested in the figure. I don't believe that she will replace V3, but Kaimira might be an excellent addition to the library.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Randym77, Kaimira will have some features that Vicki doesn't have. First, she will genitalia, which might not be considered unique as a lot of 3rd party figures have it, but probably not to same extent of detail as Kaimira's. Second, she will have layering which will allow for greater facial detailing as well as body hair. Third, she will not have the unimesh look. And finally, she will have more consumer imput into the creation of the mesh and morphs as Seraphina has posted images specifically asking for people to nitpick in order to achieve an ultrarealistic look. Movida, I would definitely buy Maximus in a heartbeat as well...

Plus, some figures -- or I should say the idea of some figures -- are trumpeted by certain individuals merely because DAZ didn't make them.

It's the whole anti-Microsoft thing in a different form.

Hate the king of the hill.....just because he's the king. And nit-pick every possible/potential flaw. One never can tell -- something might stick.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

The idea that Anton knew about this strikes me as unbelievable shaky. First, it assumes DAZ had this planned a year in advance, which I sincerely doubt. I'd guess that the first inkling of this idea was at 6 months ago at most. Second, it assumes that DAZ would tell Anton that they intended to release M3 for free at the beginning of 2005. Why would they do that? Anton was unhappy, was moving into a competitive position with them, and was disputing the scope of his NDA. Why in the world would they tell him information that would destroy their M3 market if it leaked out early?

I'm all for a good conspiracy theory, but this one stretches my suspension of disbelief a little too thin.

FryeSpirits, good points... Xeno, I wasn't plugging Kaimira simply because she isn't built by DAZ and I am not anti-DAZ. She will certainly be a welcome addition to those who want to diversify their figure library...

Xeno, I wasn't plugging Kaimira simply because she isn't built by DAZ and I am not anti-DAZ. She will certainly be a welcome addition to those who want to diversify their figure library... PapaBlueMarlin - Actually, my comments were intended as a follow-up to my own post directly above yours. I had not even read your post when I hit "Submit". So, my remarks were not directed at you. Cross-posted. Sorry. And, yes.....as I mentioned also......I fully agree with you that Kaimira looks to be an excellent addition to one's Poser arsenal.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

One of the limitations of forum communications. "Refresh" sometimes helps.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I dunno. She does look nice, but as you note, there are a lot other nice figures that languish without support. (Including your favorite, Elle.)

I bought Dacort's Dina because she was anatomically correct. Hey, you never know when you might need a model with accurate genitals. There are some lovely characters for her by Handspan Studios, which I also bought. And she can borrow Vicky's hair. But she's got almost no clothing to speak of, so I very rarely use her. Though I suppose dynamic clothing - unavailable when Dina was introduced - might be the answer.

She does look nice, but as you note, there are a lot other nice figures that languish without support.

A lot of people don't want to acknowledge this point -- but the "look nice" aspect has a LOT to do with a given model's sales figures.

That's a major part of the reason why Dina didn't do so well sales-wise.

Like it or not, a model's looks are key. People tend to go for the thing that pleases the eye. Some individuals don't want to accept this.....but it's true nonetheless.

And this is one reason why I believe that Kaimira has a better chance than some other less-than-spectacular "3rd-party" figures.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

"You get my point?" Yes. :-) I didn't mean to misrepresent your intentions, nor did I mean to speak for him, just expressing respect based on some past incidents. No biggie, your intention was clear. "People tend to go for the thing that pleases the eye." Sixus1's Cthulhu is my secret lover.

Regarding Anton: I have no idea why he left DAZ, other than the remarks he posted here. I hope he does return to the Poser "scene" because he's a damn fine artist and a very generous guy, too. Regarding DAZ: I think what they have done is an incredibly brave and generous thing. I have no doubt V3 and M3 would continue to sell well enough that they've probably taken a huge hit in their profits, which (of course) they hope to make up with loyalty sales, feelgood sales, catching new customers and so forth. Regarding non-DAZ models: Maybe I'm in a minority but I make a point of buying almost every human figure I can get my hands on. True, I don't use 'em much (I have yet to render an image with Elle, for example) but I can forsee a time when I will need the diversity of other meshes. The more, the merrier. Another thing which just occurred to me: This here DAZ free idea could well stimulate the market for other content creators. With D|S and the free models it gives a no-risk start to a lot of undecideds. Once they get an idea of what a hell of a lot of fun this 3D lark is, they may well descend on other creators, ready to spend their bucks. This could just be the kickstart we need.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

Dina can look pretty.

And a lot of people complain that V3 doesn't look pretty enough. They morph her until she does. Usually making her waist smaller, her boobs bigger, her lips and eyes larger, her legs longer, etc. If attractiveness was the key, it would be easy to make a killer figure. The prettiest of them all would prevail. (And would probably look something like the Girl, only with smaller feet. Those hobbit feet just don't look good in the spike heels that are de rigueur in the galleries. ;-)

There are a lot of figures that are pretty "out of the box" - prettier than Vicky, even. But they still don't get support. Neftoon Gal and Elle come to mind. And Dina's sister Natalia, who is more of a conventional beauty than Dina is.

Nope, I think it's support that counts. I don't care how cool the iMac looks, if I can't play Doom III on it, forget it. ;-)

I was wondering how long it would be before the conspiracy theories started. :-) bonni (adjusting my tinfoil hat)

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

It is nonsense to think that daz controls poser, I hardly ever use the millenium figures because most of them are too big for my computer. Microsoft are "king of the hill" by luck, windows is not the best program. Windows slows down all the computers it is installed on, partly because of the bugs and partly because it is not written in machine code.

Dina can look pretty.

If Dina out of the gate had looked like Handspan Studio's versions of her -- then Dina would have gone up against Victoria -- and possibly come out the winner.

There are a lot of figures that are pretty "out of the box" - prettier than Vicky, even. But they still don't get support. Neftoon Gal and Elle come to mind. And Dina's sister Natalia, who is more of a conventional beauty than Dina is.

Sorry, but I just don't agree with you here. Elle, "prettier than Vicky"? Hmmmmm. To quote the man: "I don't think so.........." IMO, Elle's big drawback is her teeth. Too many and too big.

Neftoon gal? Natalia? Once again, sorry. I feel safe in asserting that the great majority of the male population would hold a very different attitude.

Oh, well -- until "3rd party" character creators are willing to acknowledge the obvious, and to get away from some of the PC thinking that's out there..........

........Victoria will continue to beat them Every-Single-Time.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Well, Geez.. You would think that a successful business model such as the one that Sixus1 utilizes with their "Project: Human" line would have caught on by now...

Oh WAIT... It did... (Edited to remove my inflamatory junk.)

Message edited on: 01/05/2005 20:51

"People tend to go for the thing that pleases the eye."
Sixus1's Cthulhu is my secret lover.

When the sales of Sixus1's Cthulhu figure approach the sales level/community use level/third party accessories production level of V3, then I will acknowledge that the underlying thrust of this statement as true.

Until then: no.

Sixus1's creatures are superb -- no question about it. Excellent creature models, possibly without parallel.

But HP Lovecraft's books don't sell nearly as many copies as Playboy magazine does.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

There's no conspiracy in here. There's only a business plot that now it comes to the light for all of us and that has affect. I'm comfortable with the decision because a free V3 and M3 certainly give a boost to every item designed for them. But as it's have been said here support to the figures is the difference and my concern is that now there's going to be more difficult to support a figure which will cost 20-30 dlls (very little for a year or so of work) if the "standard" it's free. This is not another anti-DAZ thing, if they have all the market it's because of us in a vicious circle. I have seen many people complaining of them but also see the same people do stuff for Victoria or another DAZ figure. I don't understand them. BTW Fyrespyrit: I'm quite positive that this decision was taken in the early 2004, must have meetings, the account department of DAZ must have make many reports regarding the actual profits of both figures and must have measured the cost-benefit of the impact in that income. This is not a rash decision, give them some credit.

.

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.

I was just teasing about the conspiracy theories. Honest. I'm a well known smartalec and I was just having a bit of fun. ;-) bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

What is this new character folks are talking about and where can I get more info on her? Thanks, Marque

Daz figures are first generation for the Daz studio. 8^) Marque

In the first line it should say "...has affect Anton for instance." Xenophonz has nailed an excellent point, how many sells does a figure makes. No figure could get decent support if the sales didn't take off. Dina, Elle, whatever, all had to stand their ground against a comparison that all customers made, V3 or this figure. 90% would go for V3 because of the support she has thus the alternative figure is going to have even less support, another vicious circle. I don't hate V3 or anything, I just want viable choices to choose from. If Kaimira finally get to the MP maybe she could be taken as the flag for all those out there that really want something else. Just hope Seraphira doesnt make the same mistakes as all the other figure makers.

elizabyte: I had picture you as one of the characters of the film "Signals" :)

LOL!!!! bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

I still say it's support that counts. If making a prettier model was all it took, it would have been done long ago.

Just hope Seraphira doesnt make the same mistakes as all the other figure makers.

Posermatic, what mistakes do you think all the others have made?

I think DAZ would be hard to beat, even if your strategy was perfect. Most merchants work by themselves, part-time, maybe with a friend or two. DAZ has a whole paid staff to make stuff. So they can unveil their new figures with wardrobes of clothing, textures, morphs, hair, sets. While individual merchants have to make everything themselves. There's just no competition.

If someone did make a figure that caught on for some reason, DAZ could just bring out their own. Cheaper, if necessary. With more stuff, definitely. And people would gravitate toward the DAZ version, because of the support.

Yes, that would be "the DAZ way".

Maybe not really mistakes but if you put all the figures together all of them has flaws that could be avoided by, what you just said, working in teams instead of by themselves. If only one person it's involved then the vision gets narrower and things that could be done better are missed (Elle teeth's for example). That's why the DAZ figures are more appealing (among other things) because more people are involved, more eyes to look on for mistakes.
That's the mistakes I mean.

Message edited on: 01/05/2005 22:26

If making a prettier model was all it took, it would have been done long ago.

Please: just take a look at the top-selling character packages in the marketplace. You won't find a single "plain" or "ordinary" character among them.

For some reason, this fact seems to really upset some people.

But I would remind them that it was ever thus. What's more: it will ever be thus.

It just ain't fair. But it's reality.

---

I still say it's support that counts.

To a point, I agree with you here. Victoria has such a hold and depth on the market at this time, that it would be extremely difficult for any other figure to make an inroad.

But support isn't the whole story -- not by a long shot.

Once again: there are clear and obvious reasons for the photographs of smiling, beautiful young women dressed in bikinis on the covers of the vast majority of slick magazines that one can find on the racks at grocery stores.

Marketing types know certain things. There are two matters that will attract attention -- and these matters spring up from the depths of the human psyche:

1. Extreme Beauty.
2. Extreme Ugliness.

People will stop and stare at a beautiful woman on display. Likewise, people will stop and stare at a gory mess on display.

Beautiful girls and monsters -- these are the things that tend to sell. And in that order.

Psychologists say that two subjects have a more profound effect on the human mind than any others: Sex and Death.

Any marketing people that are worth their salt both know and acknowledge this fact. That's why products are advertised the way that they are advertised.

Unfortunately, in the current PC climate -- acknowledging such simple facts goes against the grain of many.

It violates certain sacred tenets of early 21st-century mythology. So, we have to pretend that the obvious isn't real.

---

Victoria will continue to beat them Every-Single-Time.

But Kaimira might just be the one to give Victoria a run for her money. Maybe.

In any case, she looks to be an excellent choice for anyone. To add to V3 in the library, or as a standalone.

Personally, I don't see such things as an either/or choice -- an issue where people have to choose up sides, and then proceed to yell at each other.

You can enjoy chocolate ice cream and vanilla at the same time. Message edited on: 01/05/2005 22:31

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I'm not saying that looks don't count. I am saying that looks are not enough. And I truly think that Victoria, out of the box, is not that pretty. I think DAZ was going for "average" with her. A slightly idealized average, but average. There's a reason why those gorgeous character sets sell so well.

I don't think anyone's choosing up sides and yelling. But an either/or choice - for many of us, yes, it is. Not everyone can afford to buy every figure that comes out. Let alone their clothes, textures, hair, etc. Nobody wants to be on the Betamax side of a market war - owning the superior product, but not able to use it, because there's no support.

I hope Kaimira succeeds. She looks like a great figure. But I won't be buying her until I see how much support she'll get.

But I won't be buying her until I see how much support she'll get.

Here's where the vicious cycle begins: if the figure doesn't sell, then after few intial stabs at it, 3rd-party merchants will forget that the figure exists.

This is what has happened to: Dina, Natalia, Amy, et al.

If lots of people buy a figure, and corresponding 3rd-party merchants then start to see brisk sales on their initial packages for that figure -- then we've got a whole other ball game.

It's possible with figures like Kaimira.

It'll never happen with figures like Dina. Unless if that future "Dina" looks like Handspan's version of her.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Looks count for a lot.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Part of Seraphina's plan was textures and a few clothing packs for her. So Kaimira isn't going to be released unprepared for the market...

Great. Glad to hear it. I'll support her.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I think support counts for more. A lot more. (I look for support first, and adaptability second. I want the character to be able to look different - ugly, pretty, old, young, black, white, Asian, etc.) It's why I'm willing to buy DAZ characters as soon as they're released. Even their "neglected" characters like David and SP get more clothes than most non-DAZ characters.

No matter how pretty the character is, it's going to be awfully hard to fight market forces, which is what you're doing when you try to introduce a new character. Unless you have a group of people who are doing it solely for principle - because they want diversity, or hate DAZ, or whatever. If you can sell 300 copies of a dress for V3, or 100 copies of a dress for SP, why make a dress for a non-DAZ character that will sell five copies? Even "ugly" DAZ characters sell well and get lots of support compared non-DAZ characters.

Message edited on: 01/05/2005 23:05

No matter how pretty the character is, it's going to be awfully hard to fight market forces, which is what you're doing when you try to introduce a new character. Unless you have a group of people who are doing it solely for principle - because they want diversity, or hate DAZ, or whatever. If you can sell 300 copies of a dress for V3, or 100 copies of dress for SP, why make a dress for a non-DAZ character that will sell five copies? Even "ugly" DAZ characters sell well and get lots of support compared non-Poser characters.

I don't have any disagreement with you on this point.

We agree.

It'll be difficult for anyone to overcome Victoria's commanding position in the marketplace. Extremely difficult.

But one starts out with two strikes already, when one creates something "less than" in the looks department -- perhaps based upon PC thinking.

I think support counts for more. A lot more.

Without a doubt, support counts for a lot, too.

But the figure has to sell itself FIRST. Afterwards, the 3rd-party content support can follow.

Lots of owners of a figure = lots of sales all the way around. Including for content providers.

You aren't going to generate that type of user base by creating a Dina.

It's the old saw about creating a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Far better to start out with silk material in the first place. Makes the goal a lot easier to accomplish down the road.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

"But I won't be buying her until I see how much support she'll get. "

Talk about self-fulfilling prophecies!

:deep sigh:

And it isn't free if you have to pay more money to make it work... like a razor isn't worth much with no blades. Can you even open the mouth without the morph packs?

Message edited on: 01/05/2005 23:23

I don't think anyone makes unattractive figures out of political correctness. You may not think Dina is pretty, but she was modelled after a woman that a lot of men found very attractive. But not everyone has the same taste, and it's not easy to make a mesh that captures a likeness well. I don't think DAZ's Anna Marie Goddard model was any better. From her photos, she's a stunning woman, but her Poser model has an old, harsh-looking face.

Carolly, yes, you can! DAZ recently re-did both the M3 and V3 bases so that they include the basic expression morphs. Like SP, they can smile, blink, etc., without the morph packs.

I'm sure they aren't planning to lose money on this deal, any more than Microsoft is losing money by giving away Internet Explorer. But the V3 and M3 bases they are giving away are very usable characters. You do need textures, clothes, and hair for them, but there are lots of freebies and non-DAZ sources for those.

I suspect users of high-end software might find these models of interest, too, now that they are free. They can make their own morphs and clothing, and rig them to work in their 3D programs.

I didn't buy the AMG character package.

As for Dina -- from the first, the model was faulted for its looks. Dina never had a chance.

In spite of what some would like to believe, the vast majority of men do not find female body builders to be attractive. A few men do, but they are in an extremely tiny minority.

Jessica Simpson draws a universe of attention more than does any hardcore female body-builder that one cares to name. Female body builders aren't featured on the cover of Playboy.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

This makes no sense whatsoever. DAZ still has DAZ Studio available for free, an alternative to forking out a hundred bucks(or more depending on the version) for Poser. DAZ releases M3 and V3 for free, the 2 most pupular human figures there are among Poser users. So now, anyone with access to the internet can get into the Poser world for $0.00 and have some rewarding renders in a day. This means dozens, hundreds, maybe thousands of new customers for Poser content in the near future. So how does that in any way Reduce marketability of anything? Look at the galleries for crying out loud! :P Appearantly ~80% of the people using V3 don't have a clue about morphing her appearance(or they're just too lazy to do it). That means when they want a different look, they'll look for a different figure to accomplish it. This = $$$ for figure creators.

Was she a body builder? I thought she just happened to have broad shoulders. She was wearing only a scrap of lacy lingerie in the picture I saw, so I assumed she was a model of some sort.

Anyway, my point was that I think Posermatic is right. I doubt it was an attempt to be politically correct. It was a difficult task, and they didn't quite succeed. DAZ isn't perfect, either. The Anna Marie digital clone is not that attractive, and I think they intended her to be pretty. And everyone complains about V3's arms and shoulders. But since they have a whole staff to work on their models, they don't suffer from the tunnel vision that individual artists do. And even if a seriously flawed model is released, because they're DAZ, they get a chance to fix it.

My problem with the AMG package wasn't the looks of the model -- my problem was with the intial EULA that contained all of that heavily-lawyered language. No way was I going to purchase a model that I might get sued for using in an image. Sure, they toned downed the EULA later on: but the damage had already been done.

I would never accuse the creators of Dina of attempting to be "politically correct". Uh.....heh, heh....no-o-o-o-o...I don't think that the "PC" label would fit them very well.

I just think that they should have gone for the very "supermodel" look that some complain about all of the time. If they had done this, then I am willing to predict that Dina would have been a hit.

But they didn't, and she wasn't.

No.....my "PC" statements have more to do with those that constantly complain about the reality of the way that things are -- both in the marketplace and in the galleries

"Why don't landscapes get more views than pin-ups? It's not fair-r-r-r-r!"

"How come there's so much stuff for V3 in the marketplace? Why not for David?" ((Note: this question answers itself. It's obvious. It's just that some individuals don't want to admit the simple truth of the matter.))

The "PC" aspect of things comes out in an insistence upon merchants producing stuff that will not sell -- just to fit some sort of definition of "ordinary" or "normal".

A new corset for V3 will sell tons more copies than a t-shirt for David ever will or would.

---

Gotta go.

Goodnight.

Message edited on: 01/06/2005 00:15

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I'm really glad Daz has given us V3 and M3, I'm also very interested in the new Kaimira figure. I like to work with new looks, one does not supplant the other at all. I also want to chime in with something way up at the top of this thread, I miss Anton's talent too! His work was about 75% of what I used to buy. I think you can't have too many works of art or too many fun Poser things to play with!

"Your work is to keep cranking the flywheel that turns the gears that spin the belt in the engine of belief that keeps you and your desk in midair."

Annie Dillard

Handspan --

You produce figures that are about as close to "perfection" as a 3D mesh will permit. Superb.

My hat's off to you.

Goodnight for real this time.

;-)

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

HandspanS, I love Drusilla! I buy Dina just for her. You really pushed the envelop of what morphs can do for a figure. Yeah, we all miss Anton and his talent :( There are so few out there that really do things that amaze you, and certainly he was one of those.

Thank you both, that's really nice to hear :). I'm always in the process of learning. Looking at those two Dina characters there are a lot of things I'd do differently now. Don't want to get too OT ;-). Thanks again for the kind words.

"Your work is to keep cranking the flywheel that turns the gears that spin the belt in the engine of belief that keeps you and your desk in midair."

Annie Dillard

Thank you Daz! I was beginning to feel locked in the stone age, not owning V3-M3 is icing on the cake. I think on the looks vs. support, I have to agree with XENOPHONZ. At least regarding Dina, I don't recall a lot of initial disappointment because she didn't have a bulging wardrobe closet or a slew of cosmetic surgery options. Everyone expected that those things would be a while in arriving. The major lament was, "she's ugly!" That IMO was the main factor in Dina's demise. Sure, there are people who thought she looked fine, that she was a welcome alternative to the "centerfold look", etc. but for many if not most, her looks simply didn't click and the air went out of the balloon. I'm sure they're a lot of people who make cold, pragmatic calculations on possible future support, versatility, etc. but I think for many, if a figure fails that initial conscious or unconscious "cuteness quotient," (at least for female figures), it's less likely that folks will spend money on it. I certainly wouldn't have bought Dina, enhanced polygon count, genitals and all if I had truly realized how she would look in the cold light of my CRT. That's not to knock her real-world counterpart. The real Dina, in all her sweat glistening, bikini bursting glory has an appeal that goes beyond her rather pedestrian face in a way her 3D avatar could never match.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Randy, Thank you. That makes more sense, and means this is a more honest and generous offering. I may or may not download them just to have in the archives, but still don't have any intention of letting them take over my libraries. It is a sharp business move in terms of cutting off all competition. That may not be good for the entire community... because we do need other approaches to figure creation and other looks to the finished models. However, it does ensure that DAZ will get a surfeit of artists locked into supporting them for a long, long time to come, and they will make money, too. But the originality will come from elsewhere. What we'll need is some independently wealthy merchants who can afford to be original and niche-market. Carolly

Once again: this is an offer. You may download both meshes for free now. But you are not forced to. If you do, and you want to use the characters people created, you will either have to buy the morphs also, or get the characters that are morphed by the artists themselves. (a few very good ones here ate R.!) As the best skins and clothes are sold here and at RDNA, just to name a few, as the best hair if free, or to be found on the same marketplaces, Daz will only have the morph packs. Imo it is an all or nothing move. But then I am not a commercial strategist. I know that V3 and M3 are quite impressive meshes within the limitations of Poser (joints, especially the shoulder, and the size of some parts of the body) and that Daz will need quite impressive servers to cope with the downloads. But whether you feel the need to download and start the money threadmill or not: that is your own personal choice and responsability.

I have tried prudent planning long enough. From now I'll be mad. (Rumi)

Don't forget you can claim a voucher rebate on the base figures as well if you have already bought them :)

"...and responsability." Did I just download a figure or join Al Qaeda? :-)

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Can someone please tell me where to find info on this new figure you keep talking about? Thanks, Marque

"What we'll need is some independently wealthy merchants who can afford to be original and niche-market." Sixus1...

It is a sharp business move in terms of cutting off all competition.

Doesn't seem like this will "cut off all competition". The inclusion of characters in P4 and P5 didn't "cut off all competion" for Curious Labs in the realm of figure creation. In a sense, it helped spur the creation of DAZ. Competing with DAZ is certainly not easy, but it has more to do with market share, available R&D dollars, and the size of their "audience" and little to do with releasing V3 and M3 as free figures.

Laroo, Koshini, and Sixus's figures compete with DAZ's M3 and V3 and have their own following. Project Kaimira also appears to have the potential to be some pretty stiff competition for DAZ figures.

This is a smart marketing move for DAZ in that it will stimulate sales of more add-on merchandise for V3 and M3.

I just checked my email from DAZ's big plug about the free V3 & M3. ALL YOU GET THAT'S FREE IS THE BASE FIGURE. and nothing else. Not complaing but, all the fuss over a free product baffles my mind. They do thatso you'll buy the rest of the package. DAZ is a company pushing products. If they give one or two bases away free it helps their sales. Why such a fuss? It also may mean that DAZ may discontinue thes items and let us users sell what we make from then like you can with Victoria 1, remember her? All Daz is doing is promoting their products. I'll admit, I'm no fan of Daz the company, just some of their figure moldels and the fuss over V3 & M3 is hype. V3 have the best skin textures, that much, I will admit and that's why I like using her has nothing to do with looks for looks Ilike the EVE character with Poser4 so underrated and her cloths conform better than Vicki all a matter of taste when you come right down too it. and, as for M3 we need more male figures than female at this point!!! ;)

Message edited on: 01/06/2005 07:45

What is project kaimira???? Can someone please give me some info on it? Thanks, Marque

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12413&Form.ShowMessage=2058838

Thread on Kaimira.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Thank you!! Marque

I'm working on a project that corrects the shoulder problem, smooths the mesh so it'll take morphs better, regroups it to the same as David, and takes all David morphs, V3 head morphs, and a set of old M3 and Freak morphs. I'm also adding the V3 SAE hand scaling technology to him. I'm doing the same for the Freak. I'll be doing a preview of the new and improved versions late this week in Product Showcase.

Hi pdxjims, Almost right on schedule! Excellent! I'm eager to see your software in action but your march release it's even more interesting.

It's amazing how people can find fault with getting something for free. In the past, people have complained about freebies they can't use because they don't have the required character, etc, and the lynch mob were out to hang any ingrates. The lynch mobs must be on vacation this time. In this case, DAZ gave us Vicky 3 & Mike 3. They're perfectly useful "as is," although, yes you'd likely want to buy skin textures, clothes and hair. But this is a major freebie. And now DAZ has a special deal on a package combining Mike 3's and Vicky 3's morphs as well. I've yet to find any alternative characters such as Dina who can step in to fill the void. And by god I'm going to wait and see just what is available for any new character before I spend my precious money buying it. Dina is still wandering around somewhere complaining she has no clothes. I won't add to the stable of useless models.

I wasnt complaining about vicky 3 and mike 3 being free, I was just pointing out that it doesnt mean the end of character making for poser, v3 and m3 are not that good that no one will make better figures. I was just arguing about the logic of the first message in this thread.

I am not trying to be confrontational nor am I trying to defend DAZ. I am simply trying to share some information as to DAZs motives and business practices.

It still baffles me that no matter what DAZ does there are people who try to bring it down as a negative thing. The conspiracy behind our reasoning for releasing Michael and Victoria is spelled out completely within the original post. It is our opinion that this community needs growth and we are making every effort to do that. To those who speculate about the lack of success of other 3D figures, have you considered that maybe it has something to do with the size of this market? I believe market size has more to do with it than anything else. A larger market will make more opportunities for more people and will create more choices for customers.

I find it interesting when people refer to DAZ as a big company in the forums. We may be fairly prominent in this community but relative to other businesses in the U.S. we are tiny and somewhat insignificant. This is yet another sign of the relatively small size of this community.

DAZ is a business and we have never claimed that we were anything else. And as a business, we really are trying our best for our customers. We have learned that if we do not take care of our customers, we will not remain in business and if we do we can succeed.

Our recent decision (please note that it was within the last month) to release Michael and Victory for free was based significantly on our desire to grow this market. Merchants here (Renderosity) as well as other sites will likely benefit significantly from this decision (as will the stores hosting their products).

I look back to the original meeting with fractal design where we first pitched the concept of having add-on models for Poser to where the market is today. It has grown rapidly from that point and I believe it will continue to grow. My hope in writing this letter is that people may consider and focus on the benefits of this decision rather than try to derail it. I hope people put their efforts on encouraging friends and acquaintances to give 3D a try. I hope we all will put our efforts in growing this community together.

Anyway, I wanted to share a few thoughts from my perspective on this.

Sincerely,

Dan Farr
President, DAZ Productions

It still baffles me that no matter what DAZ does there are people who try to bring it down as a negative thing.

It alternately baffles, amazes, and....yes....angers me.

I have absolutely no use for the unending DAZ-bashing on the part of some. It is neither justified nor is it right.

If all that one ever has to contribute to the discussion is an endless list of gripes, then there's a hint in there concerning the actual source of the problem........and it isn't DAZ.

DAZ is a business and we have never claimed that we were anything else. And as a business, we really are trying our best for our customers.

From what I've seen, you've accomplished this goal admirably.

Thanks.

My hope in writing this letter is that people may consider and focus on the benefits of this decision rather than try to derail it.

You've got my support 100%.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Hear Hear.

Daz have made a lot of good free items especially recently. I would like to point out that I have never complained about a free item from any site. You could buy a lot of extra items for v3 and m3 but you don`t have to, nobody is twisting your arm.

Dan, a I think lot of people are TREMENDOUSLY gratified by Daz' generosity to your customers, now and in the past. I don't know how often you visit here but believe me, this is just par for the course and actually rather mild by the usual standard. This is a microcosm of humanity and by nature some humans are crotchety, contrary and skeptical at times. Daz may be a tiny company relative to the Fortune 500 but you are the 300 lb. gorilla of the Poser content world and as such, you're going to be subject to the Microsoft syndrome. No matter what your motives, business model or actions, some will always to look for the cloud behind the silver lining, eager to pounce and say, "aha, I told you the emperor had no clothes!" If you opened a charity and gave everything away, you'd still get some complaints so I'm afraid the best advice is to just grin and bear it, never doubting that your efforts are truly appreciated by the sometimes silent majority.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

M3 AND V3 FOR FREEZ!!!! PROOFS DAT DAZ IZ EFIEL! NOW GIF MEH MI PITCHAFORK! IZ GOT SOME MOBBIN' TO DOZ!* Lame attempt at a pathetic eastern european 1930's horror film mob accent done on purpose. Sentiment expressed is not held by the author.

No.....my "PC" statements have more to do with those that constantly complain about the reality of the way that things are -- both in the marketplace and in the galleries

I don't think that has anything to do with PC-ness, either. People tend to gripe when they don't get what they want. Always have, always will. Why not? It works, at least some of the time. Complaining is as much a part of human nature as staring at beautiful women. Maybe more, because even blind people can complain. ;-)

Jim, will your new and improved M3 be able to wear M3's standard clothing?

People tend to gripe when they don't get what they want.

It's not so much the "what" as the "why" behind it. And the "why" frequently has to do with some sort of a PC idea of "fairness".

I.E. - it isn't fair for beautiful characters to out-sell "ordinary" characters by wide margins. And it isn't fair for pin-ups to get 100's of views, while landscapes get 8 views.

And why isn't it "fair"? Because this betokens an uncomfortable reflection of the way that things are in the Real World.

---

Until such time as a Dina-esque figure comes anywhere near touching V3; or when "ordinary" character packages start selling at anything like the levels of "supermodel" character packages, then there's not much more to talk about here.

Oh, well.....I think that I've made my points on this particular subject. At least for this thread.

After a time, the discussion starts to go in circles.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

It'll wear all of M3's clothing. I wasn't going to do a preview quite yet... But here... From left to right: M3 with extra smoothing, with the Freak smoothed morph at a -.7, with David's Barbarian morph, with David's Superhero morph. I'm still working on the shoulder JP's and the hand scaling. The shoulders are still a little too bowling ball for me, but I'm getting there. I'm also working on a problem with eye posing when applying some 3rd party David morphs (all the Daz injection head morphs for V3 and David work fine). He is tentatvily planned with the following morphs: More Smooth M3 Default Freak Smoothed Converted M3 morphs Converted Freak head morphs 4 custom head morphs (and counting), there may be more Possibly a set of new muscle morphs - no promises on that. It'd be a Muscular 4 that would be an extreme muscle cut morph, like a VERY overdone body builder. I'm also going to work on a Muscular 5, that is more a heavy olympic style weight lifter. All mophs are Daz injections, and are placed in channels common to all the V3 grouped character, so they'll work on David, SP3, and V3. You get some neat effects when applying them to the V3 male. Due to the nature of this set, I'll either have to RTE encode it, or hopefully, broker it through Daz. Daz has always been VERY supportive of my work, so I have hopes in that direction. Side note: I'm also working on a set of injection poses for the M3/D3 genitalia. These may or may not be included with the set.

Looks promising. I'd like to see the effect on a V3 female character.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Again, THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY! Conspiracy needs one or more persons joining together against another, usually with a bad purpose.I don't see here any of this. What this thread is about it's a series of thoughts about what could be the decisions and motifs around Anton and his project. I maybe wrong but, hey! it's what my chain of reason leads me to and just want to share it. DAZ decisions are of their own, I never imply that they did it because some dark motif or something like that or to vanish potential 3D figure creators just want to point out what could be the side effects of this. As I said before it's just a business decision, nothing more, I know that DAZ it's a small-mid size company but even as "small" as it could be I don't bite that the decison of give M3 and V3 was a "just yesterday". Doing this without planning and research would be a fools decision and DAZ it's not known as a dumb company, far from it. The idea of a man at his desk taking the phone and saying "what do you think if we give M3 and V3 free, just like Aiko? it had work great, yes, I think we could do millions with this! Do a "pressKit" and announce for tomorrow" Come on it's ridiculous. DAZ doesn't need to explain their actions nor I intend an explanation also but this kind of move would need a fore cast for the next months, the impact on the income, where the $ 20 bucks would come from for each of the buyers of both figures, how long would it take to return the profits, etc.. Anyway, the figure creation may suffer the impact but as I said before every item that has been done for these figures now has more potential sales, and that's good.

I think attributing it to "PC" is perhaps over analysis. You don't see people clamboring for mre gay and lesbian images or ethnic images or images of physically challenged characters.. I think it's simply a matter of 'I'm unhappy that what I like/want isn't what's popular.' Anyone over the age of 6 realizes that "fairness" has no place in that equation, but we still tend to insticntively think in those terms. It isn't "fair" that Bill Gates has more money than I do or that that I'm not having sex with Russian fashion models but such is the way of the world. Alright, the part about the fashion models really is a great injustice and probably the result of some nefarious action by Daz, damn them anyway.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

V3 male with David Muscular 2 and smoothing, V3 with smoothing (and nipplegone and navelgone for nudity avoidance), David with smoothing and Freak unsmooth.

Message edited on: 01/06/2005 14:43

Again, THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY!

OH YES THERE IS!!!!!!

You see.....there's these three guys I know.....they meet in a garage every Tuesday night.......well, these guys, they know all about a mysterious group called the Illuminati.

The Illuminati, together with the CFR, are plotting to take over the world.

International bankers have something to do with it, too. I'm rather vague on all of the details........

Anyway -- these three guys -- they say that the only thing that you can do is to dig a gigantic hole in the ground, fill the hole with boxes of peanut brittle, and then climb into the hole and bury yourself.

It's the only way to escape the mind control.........

Does DAZ have something to do with the Conspiracy? That's the serious question here. And we need answers.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

pdxjims --

Thanks for the examples.

I'll be keeping an eye on the set. You might have a winner here.

Besides, it could help to make things normal again.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I have guessed that the tinfoil hat of elizabyte was all we need :)

pdxjims, you might consider labelling your characters. I have no idea what you're showing. They do look interesting. As for DAZ giving away Vicky 3 & Mike 3: Meet me at the local bar, buy me a beer, and I'll tell the whole story. Just make sure you weren't followed.

See you in the garage.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Jim, they look great.

It's not so much the "what" as the "why" behind it. And the "why" frequently has to do with some sort of a PC idea of "fairness".

I think you're reading in things that simply aren't there. Just because you don't want ordinary-looking figures or clothes for David doesn't mean no one does. I think people are asking for things they honestly want. They aren't all secretly wishing for more Voluptuous Vicky type stuff, while saying they want David clothing. You may find it hard to believe, but some people really do prefer landscapes to pinups. Why shouldn't they say so?

Just because you don't want ordinary-looking figures or clothes for David doesn't mean no one does.

When did I ever make the statement that I didn't want ordinary-looking figures or clothes for David? If any merchants choose to produce such items -- have at it.

Likewise, I have quite a few "ordinary-looking" characters in my library.

This is to miss the point --

I am for total liberty on the subject of products, or on what people would like to see in the galleries.

But I do not waste my time in constantly complaining about things that I don't happen to like. I don't continuously whine about GIRL renders, or about 'toon figures, or about other items that don't happen to fit my personal taste.

Yet I see an unending stream of gripes about "too many pin-ups", or "supermodel characters".

If someone likes/wants clothes for David, then they can have them and welcome. The clothes won't sell anything like items for V3 would, but that's none of my affair.

The key is on products that sell -- and this is a strong indicator of what the majority of people actually want.

Gripes about the fact that V3, and that items created for V3, dominate the marketplace derive from a refusal to acknowledge reality.

It isn't going to change. It's like complaining about the wind blowing.

---

I like landscapes. What I don't like is the constant drumbeat of complaint about things that aren't landscapes. Or woodcarving. Or cotton candy.

There is a reason why the galleries are overrun with pin-ups, and why pin-ups get far more views than other types of images. Complaining about it won't change anyone's mind: or anyone's personal taste.

Landscapes are great. Let's have more landscapes. Lots more.

But don't gripe when the pin-up shows 500 views, while the landscape next to it shows 10 views.

People are going to like what they like. PC or not.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

...

Hi there,

I was searching for an old post of mine I needed and found this one. Hi Everybody! talk about being late. This shroud of mystery over the past had best be lifted now. So here is the scoop.

Reason Daz ending my contract(I was never an emplyee):

I was told I was not producing enough content and the extreme detail I was putting into my V3 $1.99 items did not justify my salary at only $1.99 each. And I was too opinionated with their methods. I was told that the PC members were complaining there was not enough variety and Daz could buy content cheaper than paying me to make it.

Reasons I was angry:

The tossed me and kept my PC.
They did not give me 30 days notice as per the contract.
I produced 7 times the amount of content of the entire inhouse staff for V3 in the same amount of time and was tossed because I wasn't generating enough revenue at $1.99 when their few $34.00+ items made more $$$. I felt that my salary, which was quite high, was simply being diverted as recommended by BryanB to Studio.

They paid me to make products as a contractor and continue to rework those items into new items with no credit or comphensation. I would never have willingly agreed to this if I was aware. I missed a loop hole in the contract which prevents me from seeking damages, and does indeed give Daz full rights to all derivatives. I felt I was tricked. I wasn't good enough but my work was spread amongst brokers to copy. They received credits yet I did not.
I was not an employee. There is no difference from the items Daz is now buying. Again, a loophole.

So please pay attentiont o this part: They ended my contract but then asked if I would continue to make items for them but just sell them outright at a fraction of my salary... a pittance. I was quite upset and in disbelief.

I was tired and worn out from 2 years of non-stop production, so I decided to try brokering again after LaurieS backed out of my plans for a store.

I planned to rebroker Maximus at Daz and then they commissioned David on the heels of my Maximus announcemnt. For anyone who thinks I am lying I have the dated brokering agreement from them. When I quoted BryanB's post(since editted) announcing 6 new Mil figures, Daz publically denounced my claims saying I was misleading people into thinking they were releasing a new figure. Dan tried to tell me David was just a morph pack add-on and I was misleading people.

They excluded me from M3(the public had the final files before I did, while still producing for the PC), and then used my V3 male morphs as a base starting point to match the scan data for M3.

They told their moderators and led the public to believe I have an NDA with them. I DO NOT!!!! MAB specifically sent me some brutal emails and IM's telling me I was banned for releasing private info. I can see her point since they had all been told I was under NDA. THERE IS NO NDA!!! ANd all info I was discussing at that time was told to be directly by Dan after my contract for Daz. NO NDA. NOT AN EMPLOYEE. Just like you guys.

But Daz has succeeded in silencing me in their forums, and to this day MAB, and other moderators continue to resist the idea that they might have been given inaccurate info. Cuz after all Anton lies right? This stuff is too sad to make up.

Despite trying to explain why that all info was told to me by dan personally on the phone after I left Daz and explaining that there is no NDA(post it please!!Dates and signature if it exists), she basiacally was like "You are the weakest link! Goodbye". I beleive she has hard feelings over something I cannot go into.

Frustrations

My texture friends at Daz, fearful of daz and panicked by my departure stopped speaking to me, returning emails, or phonecalls. It broke my heart. We used to be closest of friends and almost overnight it changed. At least Laurie was kind enough to be honest about it.

People who made things worse

Pengy:
I was ready to start releasing products to Daz when he started with his "Anton's Agenda" thing. This pressured Dan into saving face and Dan backed out of the brokering agreement.
That was why I was so feverishly trying to defend myself and was angry at Pengy. If he,Calypso, and Bixou hadn't that it fun to "get Anton going". It was done for pure sport and entertainment. I might today be brokering at Daz. Remember I have the dated brokering agreement for that period.

various brokers:
After years of frustration, brokers were lining up to take pot shots when, behind closed door, I had gone to bat for so many of them fighting for priviledges they now enjoy.

---

So later that month my Dad died. Then I read a comment by someone saying I was a monster.
I turned off my computer, ripped the moden from the wall, and moved to Maine.

So that is some of why Anton attitude is what it is. So now you know what I am willing to share. And I would rather not think of it anymore.

About M3 being free. I did not know it at the time I left. I have no issues with competition, only exploitation.

Off to bigger and better things.

Cheers.
Anton Kisiel designs

I don't know why but for some reason mods delete my posts on this matter whenever Dan or someone from Daz asks them too. Daz is more than welcome to fax mods any documents I had with them or post them to the web if I am mistaken.

All this info is harmless, but the locks, removals, etc have added to this "mystique" where I have tried to explain, yet speculation is allowed to remain. I am a company(never an employee and have every right to discuss my own business affairs if I choose too).
There is no NDA. And nothing libelous(heard that one last time).

I am allowed to my opinion like anyone else. lol At least I thought I was. I must be an exception. :)
pS: Pengy's Triffid comment is a jab at me. It is what he, calypso, and Bijou used to call me. Best of luck on you unbias product reviews Pengy. I know you would never deliberately degrade anyone.

Message edited on: 04/30/2005 06:02

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

I don't know if you'll ever read this but I'm so sorry to hear you went through all that. I really miss seeing your artwork. Ingrid

"Your work is to keep cranking the flywheel that turns the gears that spin the belt in the engine of belief that keeps you and your desk in midair."

Annie Dillard

I was only dimly aware of the "Trouble With Anton" thing, so I'm glad that you were able to tell your side of the story. It sounds like a sucky situation, especially with losing a parent coming in the middle of it all. I wish it were some bizarre, atypical horror story but many of us have been there to a greater or lesser extent. Money, ego, power, revenge all the ingredients of the human soap opera called life. The faces change, everything else stays the same. You would hope that a bunch of very intelligent, very creative people could find a different paradigm but unfortunately, they just come up with more intelligent, more creative ways to do the same old shit. I expect the pot will bubble over more in response to your version of events. For what it's worth, I hope things go well for you.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Sorry to hear about your loss, Anton. ML

Anton, At the time I make this post I was just guessing that Max project just went into the gears of the DAZ machine and you were forced to back off. Now I see that the truth was much more negative that the first statement. My compliments to you about your Dad. Sending you the best vibes! Alf

Anton, I hope Maine is everything it's supposed to be this summer for you. If you get tired of east coast life, there's plenty of places out west (like here), you'd be welcome. Any chance of Max rearing his beautiful head again? From what I saw, he had tons of potential. Jim

blinks Um, Anton, wow.... Brutal emails and IMs? I didn't even know I was capable of that. I never spoke to you on the phone. Are you confusing me with someone else, or did you forget to name who it was you spoke with on the phone and that you were talking about someone else in that paragraph? It certainly wasn't me, because I don't even know what you could be talking about there. I don't dwell or hold grudges as a general habit, but if I did, I can't think of anything for which I would hold a grudge for against you, much less meat enough to dwell on or harbor any hard feelings. Looking back on my saved records and emails of the timeframe you described, I think it's possible you may have misunderstood why we mods took the actions we did. What you describe is not quite what shows in my records and saved emails of the time. I can see, however, how a misperception may have occured on your part. So, I'm not accusing you of lying only suggesting you might have misunderstood. On another note, I am indeed sorry to read of your loss. That is really tough. I wish your heart comfort and all the best.

Hi Anton!- Sorry to hear of your loss. I was (sorta) approched by DAZ with the similar kinda arangement, awhile ago, I'm (now) glad I didn't go that way. Not that I have any problems with DAZ, myself (I think they are good people) but it is always a problem doing what others want, rather than what you want to work on. I think the more creative you get the more you only want to work on your own visions, rather than those of someone else. It is bad enough working long hours for what amounts to low pay, without being your own boss. I hope your going to get back into doing Poser stuff.

There's something rotten about the whole business. I can't see how it's Anton's fault that DAZ sold his stuff at too low a price to pay the agreed costs. Sounds like Wal-Mart tactics. And there are tools appearing which can convert conforming clothes from one figure to another; V3 to the other, smaller, unimesh females. It makes it easier for DAZ to do their multi-version selling, and it makes it easier for the customer to not buy the different versions. While my recent experience is that DAZ's quality control is slipping badly, with blatant, easy-to-fix, faults left unresolved for weeks. While DAZ keep selling broken product.

.

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

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For myself, Posette's Eve 4 is still the Queen of the Realm. She's more beautiful than any of the rest, she's easy on resourses, she's genitally correct, and her body is as flexible as any of the Millenium figures that were later based upon her design. So I say: 'Hip, hip, hurray for Posette, and... Long Live the Queen!'

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