For the past night, being testing lights on skin texture. What is the importance of Raytrace shadows from infinites? Dotty shadows I see. Trying to get the realism on skin texture only using Infinite lighting. I am not to keen on spotlights at all. I like to get the sun outdoor lighting effect. Only 4-5 lights lights (LeftSide, rightside, top, front, back) and light color at 111. Testing Shadow Size with Map Size. 1.) Map Size 256, Shadow 0.500 Light Color 111.

2.) Map Size 256, Shadow 1.000 Light Color 111 Any map size changes will not effect the change in Shadow values. So, if I were to change Map Size to 1000, and keep the Shadow to 1.000. Their will be no change in effects.

Message edited on: 01/26/2005 09:10

Then not using RayTrace Shadows, using Shadows only (All lights). I get this.

1.) Map Size: 256, Shadow: 0.500

Message edited on: 01/26/2005 09:25

2.) Map Size 1000, Shadow 0.5 (Brighter without changing color of light values)

Message edited on: 01/26/2005 09:19

3.) Map Size 256, Shadow 2.000 (Seeing what if increasing Shadow values do with Infinite lighting)

4.) Map Size 1000, Shadow 2.000

Notice shadow around the eyes and cheeks (Lighter)

Message edited on: 01/26/2005 09:21

5.) Map Size 256, Shadow 1.000

Lastly 6.) Map Size 1000, Shadow 1.000 Brighter

The problem is that depth mapped shadows ignore transparency maps so I find they just don't look right with hair. I believe someone (I can't remember who I'm afraid - but it was in this forum) showed that the speckled effect seen on your first render is a result of some number being too small for firefly to cope with (i.e. obj's in poser are v v small compared to other programs and firefly was initially designed to render these larger obj's). When I get speckles in shadows i scale up everything in the scene by a factor of 1000, redo the camera, and then it all works fine.

"I believe someone (I can't remember who I'm afraid" Good 'Poser trivia' question. ;-) I think it was Richardson who first discovered the scaling problem with Firefly and brought it to the boards. Could be wrong though.

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Tools :  3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

System: Pentium QuadCore i7, under Win 8, GeForce GTX 780 / 2GB GPU.

I recall the thread about increasing 1000x. Some things in poser are not capable of increasing 1000x, only a few.

hehe - I suspect your right, Richardson is good with lighting and shadows. It does work for me though :) Sometimes 100 times is enough, other times it's just too much hassles to scale up the whole scene so I just postwork it out. Do you get the same problem with shadows from spot lights?

Ok..scaled 1000x (Hair and Character) and changing the light Shadow to Raytrace Shadow. 1.) Map Size 1000, Shadow 1.000 Dots still continue to show, but less amount (Shoulders and around eyes and some other places)

2.) Map Size 1000, Shadow 0.5

Still problems. I am also not the type to scale everything up 1000x. Lucky for this I am only using Hair and character.

Message edited on: 01/26/2005 10:18

Depth map shadows do respect transparency. The hole here is due to a transparency map on a square prop. The shadow is a depth map shadow with a 256 map size.

Try decreasing the shadow bias.

You mean increase The "Min Shadow Bias"

This is what I get when I scaled down the "Min Shadow Bias" to 0.

Map Size 256, Shadow 0.5

Character and Hair scaled 1000x

Message edited on: 01/26/2005 13:57

This is what I get when I change the BIAS to 2.000 Maps Size 256, Shadow 0.5 Character and Hair increased 1000x

In all your renders there is a dark vertical line on the centre of her nose. Afaik, this is a shadow problem.

I have tried prudent planning long enough. From now I'll be mad. (Rumi)

Chatting about the shadow under her nose? Photographers bring this type of shadow technique to help with lighting. I used to be one. But if your chatting about a line, oh ok..I see it now. Doesn't matter, if I got rid of the line from moving the left and right side lights. The results would remain the same. I do not feel like correcting this and putting up more renders, when their would be no changes.

Message edited on: 01/26/2005 15:43

In this close up of Don's nose (object not scaled, default size) the left image is a raytrace shadow from a single infinite light with the default Shadow Min Bias of 0.8. I see dots in the shadow as the distance between the object and its shadow decreases (nostril). The right image has a Shadow Min Bias of 0.2. The dots are gone.

Man..now, I am starting to get confused. I lower the Bias to 0.2, and 0.000, I was getting dots. I increased from 0.8 to 2.000 and the dots have gone away, creating a nice shadow.

Ok..I see where I went wrong. Those images, with the character and hair scaled up 1000%.

Now this one. Min Bias of 0.200

Maps Size 1000, Shadow 0.500

Remember I am only using 4 lights (Infinite). Top, front, left side, Right side, and all RayTrace shadows on. Character and hair, no change in scale, only 100% Noticed around eye with shadow. I was playing with the light position (Leftside and RightSide). I have to work on this. Doesn't look nice.

Message edited on: 01/26/2005 17:28

I think it was Ronstuff who figured the scaling thing.

Bookmarking thread. Pretty cool.

Best Wishes,
Rance

Message edited on: 01/26/2005 18:38

Ahh, one of my favorite subjects/peeves..RayTrace Ronstuff discovered the scaling fix. We've since discovered that bumpmaps, dispacement, certain RayTrace settings and distant start/end (on spots)do not auto scale and have to be (10xed) after the scaling. RayTrace is a brutal shadowcaster. It has no blur radius like a shadowmap light. One pixel it's there...the next pixel, it"s not. It will punch through and cast an eyelash shadow, though. Even the strands of prop hair. Robo, #14...the best I see. If you are only using 1 RT infinite, the spotting should be gone. Cutting your shadow is the way to go. I even cut it down to 0.00001, just to use refract and reflect functions. Then use SM lights for shadows. Might as well set your map to 1024. Renderspeak This is wigged...Take your primary RT light (highlighted in parameter box) and use object>point at> head. Then readjust it to where you like it. Globals do not necessarily point at your figure spot on. imo, bias on RayTrace is a bandaid fix that sometimes works but mostly not. Make sure you don't have strange settings (like filtering) on in rendersettings. Smooth polys will help round her shoulders. And lastly, use the shadowcam...It's an incredible tool. All I've got. So far...#^(

I think the line aeneas meant was the one in the picture (it looks grey on the actual pictures). That is a specularity effect and not a shadow mistake.

Yup, realized that after. You can see in my post #23 that has changed.

K...With Richardson's advice. :-)

Changed Shadow to 0.00001
Map Size 1024
RayTrace Shadow: Min Bias 0.200
Smooth Polygons. (Forgot about using that)

Play around with the left and Right lights positions. Oh..did not change scale of character and hair. Which they are at 100%

Message edited on: 01/27/2005 07:09

K..with same light settings (all). Tried with another character.

I'm a visual guy... Just a comparison. The shadow over this forehead (attached) is a DM spot, using shadowcam and Angle start/end. This would be nice to cast a few soft shadows (under #29 chin, ex). The shadows(attached) that are casting the darkest are RayTrace 1.000. The only good being the shadow under her eyelid. If you like outdoor lights, I think your "sun" should be a depthmap spot/with shadowcam zoomed. Maybe bias at 0.650. At least for a closeup. The fill would be globals. Keep one RayTrace (global) for reflects, but depowered (0.4-0.00001) A RayTrace global "sun" might work for a large scene. So many compromises, it's hard to say without having identical tests.

Robo2010 I wasnt complaining about the specularity "line" effect I was just pointing out that it wasnt a shadow problem.

I understand xantor. I know you were not complaining or flaming. I seen the shadow problem after aeneas pointed out. Then later I fixed (played with light positions). :-) How do you use shadowcams?

Robo... Easy. Only hope the light you chose corresponds with cam. You should (easiest) covert light 1 to a DM spot 1024map, shadow 1.000 and position it. Not too close (2-3 pu). Angle start20/end at 160 for simplicity. If light 1 is your choice, from parameterbox go >cameras>shadowcam 1. Use X, Y to position your portrait. Anything not in view will not get a shadow. Now zoom as far as you can without cutting off her shoulders and even X and Y again. Don't touch hither. Now you will see where the shadow will hit... To be safe, object>lock actor (cam). Every time you move Light one, you'll have to shift the cam. Good time to see how many shadowmaps are being rendered, too. Shadowcam2, 3, 4...see if you really need them. If not, turn off the corresponding light/shadow. Saves on rendertime. Try a render. You should get some dark shadows...play with bias on light 1 and or shadow intensity (0.750 - down). Angle start at 0 will give you the best softness if you are not too close. As you back the spot away from the figure, I think you should raise the map...2048...etc (wag)

If you have used lightwave, the shadowcams work very much like the light view in lightwave, when using spot lights. If you havent used lightwave then forget I mentioned it. :)

When I change to a ShadowCam. My character is warpy. Is this normal? Oh..I am using infinites..no spotlights. If going for indoor..yeah or nighttime like from streetlamps.

Message edited on: 01/27/2005 12:19

What my goal here is, and others can go use a resourse, is that these textures on characters are from real people. I am trying to pull off a image that looks so realistic (even at full figure image), that people will get puzzled. and by using infinites (Like outdoor effect) and minimal amounts of infinites, like 5 and not 100, like I seen some people use then give as freebies. We or even I get close enough, but the shadow and light balance doesn't seem to go right.

Message edited on: 01/27/2005 12:31

---Only 4 infinites with Raytrace shadows (RightSide, LeftSide, Front, Top) <---Those are the names I made for the lights. All same light color: R143,G143,B143 Intensity: 55% All RayTrace Shadows 0.5, Bias 0.2 Map 1024

Message edited on: 01/27/2005 13:20

It is normal for the character to look different with the shadow camera I seem to remember a character I used being in the default pose in the shadow camera view but being posed in the normal view.

I dont know about any of this,but the "textures" on the #11 pic of the girl are badass futuristic stuff,hod ya do that???

Oh you mean Post #17...hehe. That is a flaw example. I had the character and hair scaled up 1000% Then have all lights listed (4 infinites), One light ontop, one in front, one left side, one right side. Then all Raytrace shadow (you could change color of a shadow I guess. Never tried it yet). The Bias to 0.000 All lights 111, Map Size 256, Shadow 0.5 And way you go to render. Hey never thought of the technique how valuable it could be. Should change eyes to electronic. :-)

Damm! Samhain74!!...if it wasn't for your question. I have conquered a surprise. Man..everyone is in for a wild surprise. No 3D glasses needed. Will be in the gallery. POWER OF POSER!!..damm!..I am one happy person!...It is like made an invention from poser. IF the render would hurry up.. :-)

Message edited on: 01/27/2005 15:49

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=869415&Start=1&Sectionid=1&filter_genre_id=0&

Ok..go check it out!..