Attached Link: Click Here to see the effect and the settings in Poser5 Material Room

Hi to everyone ! I was for so long time not here so it is time for me to get deeper into poser and have fun again ;P

I prepared some tip for you because I got inspirations from a tutorial made by my good friend Steven Stahlberg, I try to use it in Poser5 room and I got nice effect.
You can see the Translucence image map I used for the ears, you can do the same with the nose or just the fingers etc..

Please click on the url to see the image, it is more that 500kb but you can see exact the setting etc..

if you have any questions or suggestions please let me know.

Hugs

Catharina

Message edited on: 02/03/2005 21:05

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Thats a great tip Catharina! Glad to see you back ;o)

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Attached Link: Mec4D

One time Poser always Poser ;) Thank you Sallie ! I am back now forever!

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Glad to haer that Cath! Poser is a hard thing to walk away from!

Poser 9 SR3  and 8 sr3
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very cool even got the veins in there.

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Translucence Image Maps allow you to add the Translucence light colors to the areas you need, and as you saw already you can use many colors also to make the veins, here you don't get any standard setting to use with because every texture need own setting, Using Translucence shader node for the whole human skin is wrong idea because you can do this using the Alternate Diffuse for it for better effect, Translucence Shader nodes are great for mat (frosted glasses) as a beautiful shader node for your Elfen Wings in place of transparent.. so many ideas to get the beautiful Translucence effects in our renders, so I decided to put small tutorials on my website for the P5 Material Room in the next days so check out.

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Attached Link: http://leigh.cgcommunity.com/tutorialspart6_pg1.htm

Finally, someone making correct use of translucency. :-) For anyone interested in further articles on the subject of translucency maps and their applications in 3D, you can also check out the nice article at the link above. Nice job.

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Tools :  3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

System: Pentium QuadCore i7, under Win 8, GeForce GTX 780 / 2GB GPU.

Very nice article! thanks! ;)

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Hi Cath! It's great to see you again :)

I saw your images and was wondering how you set up your translucence map and what the effect it had when combined with python scripting such as real skin shader.

Neat. Any tips on implementing Sub-Surface Scattering in Poser5? If we can do translucency, there should be a way to mimic or outright create a shader to do SSS.

HI :) I don't used any of the python scripting such as real skin shader ( I saw well here at renderosity advertising) , I used well a toon shader for the skin what is used well in other programs as Maya etc.. for the best effects. I used also 3D nodes as spots to create the deeper effect of the skin together with the translucence map. You can see the image above and also the simple setting, try to use the maps I did for the ears on a Michael 2 templates and test it self, I will help you more but I don't own this script :( I will tell you that translucence map works this way : when you put the light in front, the translucence map don't show the effect anymore ( correct) only if the light is on the side or behind (correct) if you move a ball or anything else behind the model you will see the effect [shadow] also on the ears.. I don't think if the [python scripting such as real skin shader] works the same way because it is important to get it working on the animation too. It is on this moment very interesting theme for me so I go deeper in for the next days. Cath

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Teyon I just read about and was thinking too to create the SSS effect in Poser5 and I think it will not a really big problem because it works almost the same way. Translucence are, wax, teeth, milk, skin, nails, hair etc.. so I go to try out! I just imagine the candle and the fire! it can create amazing effect in animation. I know one thing that you need to use : Diffuse, Specular and Translucence I go now to try out :P Cath

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

***"what the effect it had when combined with python scripting such as real skin shader."***

Here's a very quick and dirty test render showing a simple translucency map combined with the Real Skin Shader script. Hope it's not to dark for you to see (I only used a simple 3 point lighting setup). I put an arrow to point you to the more evident effect.

Since the python script doesn't seem to add anything to the translucency node, you can plug in any grayscale map you want to use, as long as it corresponds with the model's UV's for the ears, otherwise the effect will look homogenous over the entire ear/head. :-)

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Tools :  3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

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Very nice effect!! the ears looks very realistic. I used above in my render Michael 2, but I put only fragment to show the idea. :)

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

So basically take a head map and make everything black except for the ears...then turn the image monochromatic and you have a translucence map?

Here's a close-up of the effect so you might see it more clearly.

---

Tools :  3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

System: Pentium QuadCore i7, under Win 8, GeForce GTX 780 / 2GB GPU.

"Very nice effect!! the ears looks very realistic. I used above in my render Michael 2, but I put only fragment to show the idea. :)" Michael 2 is still a great figure, isn't it? I get a lot of use out of him as well. Probably much more than M3. :-)

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Tools :  3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

System: Pentium QuadCore i7, under Win 8, GeForce GTX 780 / 2GB GPU.

[So basically take a head map and make everything black except for the ears...then turn the image monochromatic and you have a translucence map? ] Yes Jeremy but as you saw I used many colors, if you get to use only one then you can do this way, but you have to use only parts not the whole ears other they will glow not natural and put the color of the translucence_color

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Nice to see you're back, Mlle. Harder. Already full of great ideas, too. Gawd, another thing to learn.

[Michael 2 is still a great figure, isn't it? I get a lot of use out of him as well. Probably much more than M3. :-) ] yes Michael 2 is my favorite of all, I really hate M3 and don't get enough inspirations from ;P I never did BTW lol

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richardson wrote: [Nice to see you're back, Mlle. Harder. Already full of great ideas, too. Gawd, another thing to learn. ] Thanks! yes if you learn another software then you think BINGO why I never thinking abut it before using Poser5? I never read p5 Manual! lol Yes I have many great ideas but I have to put it nice on the good way that nobody miss it ! so as preview we can always test here if this works fine for us or not.. Cath

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

It is so good to see your name here again... your art work was what got me interested in Poser. And your store is returning... with a texture for David... this is the best news I've had in 2005 including the coming Poser 6

Thank you nemesis10! :)) nice to hear that I was not forgot at all! and BTW Subsurface Scattering inside Poser5 Material room will posted as next! so check my new message for new topic and excellent effect in poser5, you want see this!

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Sweet deal. I've been toying around for the last hour now but kept coming up short. Looking foward to seeing how you pulled it off.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=2105703

see the new topic Teyon :) I posted already Ok I saw your answer ;)

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G'd'mn, that's sexy.

Cath, good to see you posting and around again :) I really missed your presence!! What you are showing is really awesome, thank you for sharing :) Deb

Hi Cath, it's good to see you comeback. Excellent P5 tip :)
Thank you very much for the freebee on your website :D
Btw. I miss the forum at Mec4D since a few weeks, what happen?

Mazak

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Welcome back, Cath! And thanks for sharing your excellent shading tricks!

.

Welcome back, Catharina :) It's good to see you back !

Attached Link: http://www.mec4d.com/

Welcome back, Cath, I've missed you! I also want to say I love your new toon animal characters you have available on your site. Everyone should check them out.

bookiemarkie

Thank you so much to you all for the nice and warm welcome here!! Regarding my forum? I decided to close it after last server crash, I will keep posting here in this forum as well :) Thank you again! Cath

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Nice to see the Master back

Talent is God's gift to you. Using it is your gift to God.

Yup, here's a big welcome hug to Cath 8-)

Well this is very very interesting. I spent a long time experimenting with the translucence plug to get this effect, and I so hope my findings were wrong, and that yours are right. Basically, I found that the translucence plug is identical to the ambient plug. So the wiring diagram you have given also gives me the same effect on the ears - however when you remove the backlight, you still get the effect. Maybe you could post a render with the backlight, and without - to show the removal of the glow with the change in lighting (when the rest of the head black). Also, instead of plugging the map into the translucence, plug it into the ambient, and see if you get the same effect (I did). Again, I hope I am wrong on this! Also, Mec4D - Toon Shader for simulating sss. I also tried this according the Stahlberg's method, but found it was a) very sensitive to different light conditions (needed to be tweeked for high and low lit scenes), and b) it gave an sss effect which ignored the direction of the main light. So I now use a techniqe that works under all light conditions, and takes into account the direction of the main light. I gave the wiring node setup (for Maya) to Stahlberg (on a cgtalk forum) - although at the time he seems to have dispensed with the toon shader in favour of a real sss shader.

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face_off : no I am not right with you see the image it works fine just with the light and it is not an ambient or alternate diffuse effect. It don't glow it change the materials for real and make it translucence. If you use to high setting it will not works, use low scale see the preview and test self. Parameters in Poser5 are very sensitive and every scene need attention and is unique. There we don't have something like a click and finish the story :) try out it works!!! Cath

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Here another preview image the prove us that translucence shader node not glow in dark, it work correct with the light as well. I was testing everything again for 3 days now to be sure about before I post anything and make fun of me in bad way LOL Maybe it was not smart to use the red ears texture maps above, you can well change it to grey scale for animations and it will works fine, please remember that how more white light coming on the surface the translucene will gone as it happen in reality. I am done now :)) :))

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

images say more that 1000 words :) for me in any way Cath

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Catharina, have you EVER done anything in Poser that was bad lol

Talent is God's gift to you. Using it is your gift to God.

Attached Link: AVI Animation Translucence effect CLICK HERE

LOL o yes!! BTW I did test animation and got nice effect using the light here!

click the url above WMV 200kb I used 2 lights, one front that I don't move that include the shadow. I moved the second one back and front to see the inside of the surface, as by the China coups sometimes you can see a nice images when you are finish with your coffe or tea and put in on the light :) bla bla bla I hope you got inspirations!

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

I made new maps and render on Michael 2 to see how this works in a scene and it works very well :)) I used it for the ears, lips and nose the body was a displacement map with velvet node I hope you like this little preview

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Cath, are you making the nose translucent along with the ears?

Yes Jeremy and the lips too, it works fine with the light but need to be good blured to get the fine effect. I put a new black layer on the head texture and I paint the areas first using red color scale, then remove the colors to get the grey scale maps and set the translucence light to dark red and works fine.

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Mec4d - this is awesome work! I've done a couple of quick experiments.... 1) Your first wiring diagram (image map into translucence) doesn't seem to work for me. With this diagram, transulence seems to equal ambient. 2) Your second wiring diagram - where you use the diffuse node into translunce does work...although it only works when the "cast shadows" render option is on. So I guess...back to my original question - with your original wiring diagram, and the sample image with the glowing ear, if you move the backlight, does the ear still glow (it does for me - indicating that translucence = ambient). Also - on your image directly above (Bart)...it would be good to understand where the light is coming from....his ear is glowing, so that indicates the light is behind his head....but his nose is glowing too - did that come from the same light? How did the light get there? Lots of questions. Anyway - fantastic work on determining the Diffuse node plugs into the translucence. Thanks a heap for this info. Great work.

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I used maybe to hihg value in the first diagram, try to get it down a bit 0/7 If you saw the animation already so you know that it works fine and better if you use more that 2 light, with one light it will not works fine in any way and you get the [ ambient] effect In bart image I used 2 lights on the sides. Cath

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

:) my {shadermaN] is finish , the ear is little to glowing but ok M2 have not that nice ears as M3 :P I hope you like Cath

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Looks awesome. If you move the backlight - does his ear still glow?

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Cath, can we please see a screenshot of the material room for that skin shader? It looks great.

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HI Ajax and THANKS! , you asked for the shot, here we go :) It is only a little TEST, need to change the specular maps [are still not finished] they have to give a blue-green speacular light. :) AND face_off i GO TO CHECK THE CUBE FOR YOU NOW :))

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Thanks Cath :-)

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For some odd reason, when I try the ears translucence on M3, his nostrils collapse. I had a single white light as backlight with all the materials with the settings in Cath's first post.

Mec4d, I did a couple of quickie tests. Firstly plugging the diffuse into the translucence gives an effect that you don't get with plugging diffuse into ambient. So in that case translucence does not equal ambient. But I think that effect doesn't explain you "glowing" nose, etc on Bart. I wonder if you are getting those effects for a different reason. Because he is front-lit, and you are not using the diffuse node - those glows are the effects of translucence acting as ambient. You you are adding ambient light onto his head according to a map. Which looks fantatic! But I think it's important to understand /why/ you are getting the effect. On to the attached render. I've just got 1 backlight in the scene (I should have reduced the specular - sorry). It /looks/ like translucence right? But it's not. It's ambient controlled by a map, but also controlled by the main light position - to give a better fake sss effect. Move the light, and (after running the script), the sss red glow moves across her body. So I'm interested in your Bart renders - if you move the lights - does the glow change. If it does - then this is a major breakthru... Very interested to see how you go with the cube...

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Face Off very nice effect you did there, did you saw the animation above? there you can see what happen to the model when you move the light. I used Alternate Diffuse in the first diagram that why it glow, I don't need the hard shadows on the skin so in place of a toon shader I just used the Alternate Diffuse. I will go into poser about couple of min and will show you the cube, but I will better user an organic model for the effect, because it will give you the idea of the body, I will save the scene and upload so you can test self that it works ! :) see around when I see you Cath

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

SO this ALL native Poser5 with No python involved??? if so that good news for mac users

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Mec4D - yep - watched the animation....many times. I'm not sure it really demonstrating what I wanted to see. An animation of a single light rotating around Bart would tho.

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Mec4d - all the sss stuff I've been working on is in a tutorial at http://www.users.on.net/~pkinnane/RealSkinShaderTutorial.html. It's getting a little long in the tooth now (it's 2 months old), and doesn't include all the tricks of plugging maps into the nodes, but the basics are there.

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I keep messing up on the ear translucence... I think I'll wait until the tutorial is set up since I'm obviously not setting my mapping up right.

Attached Link: Poser5 Tutorials- video flash movie

I made tutorial only for the translucene material setting for one organic model not Michael. I have top update everything so the time was gone!! I will do more today. check on my website, I will post tomorrow more tutorials there for Poser5 Shader nodes so check out if you wish for more funky info. :) Cath

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Damn - renderosity aet my original post :-( So this is the shortened version - apologies if it reads abrupt.

Cath, a couple of points on your tutorial...

1. The phong node should be plugged into the Alt_Specular, not the Specular_Color

2. The tutorial doesn't work if shadows are switched on

3. If you use a single light, make it a spot light, and point it AWAY from the object, it still renders as if the spotlight was pointing at the object.

4. When you deleted all the lights, of course it rendered black, since the diffuse node was plugged in. I dissagree with the tutorial text saying that it proved it wasn't the same as ambient. If you plug the diffuse node into ambient, it will also render black.

5. I agree that under certain circumstances translucence doesn't act identical to ambient. If you run your tutorial, but use ambient instead of translucence, the opposite side of the object is lit. So in theory, translucence could be used as a form of backlit sss (won't work as front-facing sss - which it the most important part of skin realism) - although only if you don't render with shadows on.

6. If you are not using the diffuse node plugged into translucence, then translucence is the same as ambient. So for your Bart image above, plugging that map into the ambient node instead of the translucence node will give you the same results....without the problems listed in 2) and 3).

And still looking forward to seeing what your thoughts on the cube are.....

Message edited on: 02/06/2005 02:18

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face_off : I can say that Translucence are the same as Ambient because it is not so, not in Maya not in Poser, that the shaders are not really perfect in Poser then it is another story. If you want to get the front-facing sss, use the velvet node to get the tiny hairy effect like on the human skin. I like your renders and can see what you used for rendering but this is hard to get the same effect in Poser5. --------------------- your wrote: 2) The tutorial doesn't work if shadows are switched on. It works much better with shadows as without shadows. I can see what I do in real time, so I am not blind :P ---------------------------------------------------------- regarding # 6) you are right you can get the same effect, but when you trun the light off it still glow :) and with my translucence not! and we can debate until next year about. Set your translucence value down and you get better effect. and now I go to check for real the cube :)) thanks for tips!

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ok I tested and I will tell you that I don't see anything strange

It works as it have to work, when you put a light on a paper box in reality it will the same glowing effect because a paper box give the light this way and is not organic, self a little bit of light make the box lighter and that is real cartoon box translucency.

I don't expected anything else :)

Cath P.S blue is back translucence light and green is the front light

Message edited on: 02/06/2005 02:50

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OK, here is the cube example....

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And if you remove the lights....

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And the shadow issue....

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And one more on the relationship between ambient and translucence....

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"If you want to get the front-facing sss, use the velvet node to get the tiny hairy effect like on the human skin. I like your renders and can see what you used for rendering but this is hard to get the same effect in Poser5." OK, I'm not absolutely sure what you are saying here....but to clarify, I'm not using the velvet node (couldn't get it to give realistic enough results) - I'm using other techniques - which are detailed in the tutorial. I render in P5, so I'm not sure what you mean by "is hard to get the same effect in Poser5".

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OK Last post here for the day....

Cath, attached is a render using your ear back-lighting technique (although using diffuse rather than translucence). The top image is with 2 lights (one front, and one back). The lower image uses just the backlight. Both images created by plugging an extra 2 nodes into the HyperReal system. Works a treat - thanks.

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Sure it still render if you use Ambient and translucence color ON. You made mistake!!! and FACE_OFF it is my last message regarding this discussion that you don't understand what you do. The effect you try to show have nothing to do with translucence effect, Translucence is the same as Diffuse but with difference that diffuse show the surface on the same side as the light come from , and translucence is the opposite. Maybe my english is bad to understand I don't know... If you show images as the above you will make wrong idea for the users, because it is wrong. and I am sure about when I speak about. Cath

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Ok very nice renders and effect, in any way you got the effect you wish as well and it get about. I am not ok with your Screen shots..

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read me in Green

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Cath: I tried your method in post 52 and finally got the ears to work for me! I really don't know about the nose. Thanks for all your help. Jeremy

Message edited on: 02/06/2005 23:17

Cath, I've taken a lot of time and effort to help you. Obviously this is not appeciated, so I'll leave you to it.

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Hey Jeremy it looks cool! Congratulations! you know you can plug in 3D texture node : noise :to get nice bump effect on the skin. it will perfect and without seams.. if you don't know how I will make simple tut in flash. :) HugsCath

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face_off , thank you very much for help in this topic, I learn from this much more too and got deeper in and make myself more sure what I speak about. Your method is nice too and will be used in right time, don't be so negative it is just Poser!! and so is exciting! Thanks again and hugs! Cath

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Cath, is the bump effect through the bump node or the gradient bump? I'm thinking that you would do a gradient noise through one of those 2 nodes to get the effect you are talking about :) Jeremy

see the example, you can play with and see what you get, play with the value of the spot node.

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

"Cath, I've taken a lot of time and effort to help you.
Obviously this is not appeciated, so I'll leave you to it."

What the ....????????!!!!!

Anyway Cath thanks for your posts on this matter
Some of us here appreciate you taking the time to share
this FREE technique
its good to see that there are FREE
Cross platform alternatives
for getting HYPER real Skin in poser5 Message edited on: 02/07/2005 06:38

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Thank you !!! :)

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Attached Link: http://www.mazak-grafikwelt.de/test/Venus2_02.jpg

Yeaaaa Cath, I agree 1000% with wolf359, thank you very much for this free tip. The sss effect you can only achieve with professional (and very expensive) software. That effect to recreate with poser5 is excellent. Here is an example of the sss effect in Cinama4d http://www.mazak-grafikwelt.de/test/Venus2_02.jpg

Mazak

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yes it looks very beautiful Bodo. Thank you!! Renderman have it as well and a very good too.. from this come my idea to test it in Poser5 It is important in Poser5 to use the Light Diffuse node for the Translucence, this way it will never glow in dark. it is better to plug your textures into the diffuse node. I made some more test today with and will post the new tutorial on my website. As you said Bodo this effect is great in Cinema4D, but you can get it in Poser5 with very right maps, and it is a great idea to test it again. Cath

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

"Some of us here appreciate you taking the time to share
this FREE technique
its good to see that there are FREE
Cross platform alternatives
for getting HYPER real Skin in poser5"

There has been for some time the real shader tutorial by face off...
http://www.users.on.net/~pkinnane/RealSkinShaderTutorial.html
That's free as well.

And i really do appreciate all the information in this thread as well! There are so many things you can do in the material room. And there is still so much to learn about it.

Message edited on: 02/07/2005 16:14

Yesterday's the past, tomorrow's the future, but today is a gift. That's why it's called the present.

LOL...I applied the spot mapping and he looks like he's melting.

Here's how he looks with the bump lowered to 0.02 :)

can you try to reduce the spots size? for the ball it was to big :) nice effect too in the first one!! if you use the same setting for the body you will get nice effect of the figure without seams.

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Here's the reduce spots version with the same settings on the body :)

I just wonder if blending the smaller spots and the larger ones could make him look like there were blood vessels in his head...

Yes Jeremy, try it it works fine, add some freckles too using spots:) he looks slowlly better and better :)

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Okay. I read everything.
Faceoff speaks about the shininess of the skin while Cath speaks of transluency.
Different effects.
I think that's why the discussion ended abruptly: there was no communication based on a shared idea, the most important one being the definition of transluency itself.
Cath gave one that seduces me well.
Though, I highly recommend to use very very low values for this effect for the ears. All the more, don't use it for something else than realistic closeups. Otherwise it would be pointless.
I think there is a more interresting application of this effect for clothes, opaque but that let some light pass through them and light the skin under...
PapaBlueMarlin, the last render is great, try to decrease the highlight though, his skin shines a bit too much.
A final tough tip: when you're in realistic renders, no error could be forgiven. Pay attention to every details, specially the eyes (one of the first thing we look at)(after the breast, if it's a girl) and the shadows. With shadow map lights use a zero bias value.

Oh! I forgot something important! Thank you so much all! Big kisses to you Cath for sharing this interresting experiment! :)

Thanks for your advice Olivier, I'll definitely try that. I haven't been working on this for a while since I've taken a vow to play more with the Sixus1 figures this month :)

Thank you Olivier!! :) Hugs Cath

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

AKmaterialroombookmark

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

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Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=921068&Start=1&Artist=PapaBlueMarlin&ByArtist

Here's the next WIP. I decreased the specular and added Cath's eye trans material to the corneas. I'm not really happy with the result...