Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=901215

I was looking at the Bryce Gallery Like i do most days. The image i spotted disgusted me and not only that one but it seems that most of the images by that person shouldn't be allowed to be posted in the gallery. I for one would like to see most of the images removed or better yet the person a long with their images removed from the site. I think there is enough of this type of crap going on in the world, do we actually need it on this site as well...

I have opinions of my own -- strong opinions -- but I don't always agree with them.

 

Agreed 110% this is crap and and should not be allowed on this site,and the proson posting SHOULD be removed Immedatly. Political views should be kept elswhere,as for this guys views should be int he toliet..

I agree! I've grassed him up to AS. I suggest you guys do the same.

Message edited on: 03/07/2005 07:31

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader

All the Woes of a World by Jonathan Icknield aka The Bryster

And in my final hours - I would cling rather to the tattooed hand of kindness - than the unblemished hand of hate...

Thanks for the heads up...

Bryce Forum Coordinator....

Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...

Jan: If I should have talked to you first please accept my apologies. I just don't know how much clout you have over these things.

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader

All the Woes of a World by Jonathan Icknield aka The Bryster

And in my final hours - I would cling rather to the tattooed hand of kindness - than the unblemished hand of hate...

I was just looking in the TOS and found nothing but i am sure if enough of us bug AS he will do somehting..Anyone in their right mind has to see this is unwelcome and lewd.

The guy have made some cool fractals, but reading the text for some of his images, one cant help wondering if he has some serious problems. Im usually very open minded, but there are some limits on what to post on a public webpage.

Rudolf Herczog
Digital Artist
www.rochr.com

Bryster i agree we should have grassed him up to AS or Zhann. Problem was i didn't know if it was only going to be a one person complaint or not. That is why i thought it would be best to bring it to the bryce communities attention. One person voicing their opinion won't get anything done, 10 people voicing their opinion can have a bigger impact. CrazyDawg (Racist comments or art have no place in my world)

I have opinions of my own -- strong opinions -- but I don't always agree with them.

 

i just sent my message off to AS..so hopefully we are not alone in opur plight to get this off RO.

His political images are under scrutiny as I write this, however, there is the matter of free speech here, and I couldn't find any TOS violations, but I put it in front of the other mods and coordinators, so we'll see what happens. As to contacting one of us, contact me first, that's why he made me a coordinator, I'm your front line, and I have some clout, if things get out of hand then I'll go to Agent Smith, if I'm not online go to AS or any other mod or admin to voice the problem. you can see who's online by going to messaging and down the bottom after the button is a 'member's online', click that and you'll be able to see what coordinators, moderators, and admins that are online at the moment.

Message edited on: 03/07/2005 07:54

Bryce Forum Coordinator....

Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...

Thanx Zahn,at least it has been "eyed" by the right people

Polics and Religion are the type of topics that seem to always pop up no matter which forum / website I visit. Thes are two topics that people can argue and bash over each others heads till the cows come home. If this person did a single image of the type shown in the link and the rest were different I would leave it alone and call it a freedom of speech/expression through art. But if they continue to make these kinds of images than it something else and I would say the person is disturbed and this type of Images should be removed as they go beyond getting a reaction of the Brycer/ Rendersity community. Thats my 2 cents.

I wasn't offended or disgusted by the image or the message. I do, however, agree that this type of editorial artwork doesn't belong here in R'osity. I could easily get political here, but I won't. I'll end up pissing off half the people here and praised by the other half. So yeah, religion and politics should be off limits. This is not the forum for it.

<strong>bandolin</strong><br />
[Former 3DS Max forum coordinator]<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php">Homepage</a> ||
<a href="http://www.renderosity.com/mod/sitemail/">SiteMail</a> ||
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Gallery</a> || <a href="http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/index.php?username=bandolin">
Freestuff</a>
<p><em>Caution: just a hobbyist</em></p>

I think a image with a tittle like this: "Tribute to Osama Binladen" have to be banned. This is not a political or not political question, he is doing a tribute to a terrorist. You can be ok with Bush or not, but I think you cannot be ok never with a terrorist.

---

adh3d website

Freedom of speech huh? Well then, I guess I would be well within my rights to go all out with no punches pulled after this SOB in my own free words and let him know exactly what I think about him? Maybe let it all spill over into the forums so everyone could partake in the circus. After all, my freedom of speech is also protected under the first Amendment. This is asinine! Where do we draw the line that distinguishes the venom of hate, racism and intolerance and sober, intelligent, level headed expressions of opinions? Would it take images of laughing Nazis saying "its the right solution for the world" as they gas Jews, and Pols? Or maybe see people in white hoods dancing around a burning cross while a black man dangles hung from a tree saying that theyre looking after their race? Maybe a cup of coffee and book entitled Tips for the Anti-gay movement and a notepad showing steps on how to beat up gays? These lame people, the so-called artists who think they can become artists because they use inflammatory shock value to express their hatreds are nothing but imbeciles who hide under the cloak of free speech. I hope they take this sh*t off the gallery because things could get uglier than what they are now.

The TOS says it does not allow "Transmitting any libelous, defamatory, or any other material that could give rise to any civil or criminal liability under the law". In my country one can not say nomore "Gun Down Bush (or any other person)" or "Exterminate you from the human race" after it was shouted against our Prime Minister Rabin (for wanting to make peace) and than some extremist indeed murdered him a few years ago. If you say such things you give rise to civil or criminal liability under the law. You can be ok with Bush or not, you can not threaten him.

My gallery @ Renderosity

I kinda thought the same thing..If the right people were to see this.. i am quite sure they would want to talk to this guy...

I find this disgusting as well, it crossed the line with the threat(and various other things). Ditto, Warblade....lets see Interpol/FBI etc. The thought of waking up, looking out the window & seeing many black vans etc....Also, keeping in mind that hate groups are being monitored big time right now, after the murder of that judges husband & mother.

I save my disgust for serious things. This reminds me of the people who stand outside prisons waving sparklers when murders are executed. Ask them, "did he kill your friend or family" and the answer is, "no." They come from other states to tailgate in the prison parking lot a celebrate the big event. Here is a person from Denmark. No family or friends have been killed on either side. They have never even seen a single dead person from this conflict. Probably the only direct influence this has had is on the price of gas in Denmark. There is no conflict worthy in their own country so they must troll around the globe until they find one. Here they are, angry that Americans don't mind our own business to the point of wishing the death of the president. Some people just need an excuse, not a reason.

Okay, as it stands it's free speech, or that was the general opinion, however, the images are not suitable for the Bryce gallery and he has been requested to move them to the gallery "Social Commentary and World Events". This is from other Mods and Admins so unless the TOS is violated, don't go to his gallery or look at his stuff.

Bryce Forum Coordinator....

Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...

I see this among people of a certain age (i.e., painfully young), who haven't learned to differentiate betwee 'good' and 'bad' attention, you can beat them up at your lesiure, but as long as you're hitting them, they've made a connection. The Irony is, Bin Laden would cap him with as much glee as anyone else (yes, you cannot say certain things about the President, and the 1st amendment does not apply...well in this country, anyway..)

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

All I can say is that Renderosity is very lacking in their responsibilities to this community. If they dont know the definition of the word defamatory in their own TOS, then, maybe I shouldnt expect them to know what it is to be libelous either. Im beside myself in disbelief! I think Ill do my civic duty, for what its worth, and email the FBI about this idiot here at Renderosity and just make them aware that this moron exists.

well said!

It's insane! Forget for a second that it's Bush, but imagine if the comment had been directed at another member, there is no way that the image would still be up. It's not the fact that it's political that's the problem (IMO) it's the fact that it is calling for another human being to be harmed. You can't just use the "free speech" and political or social comment excuses, this is threatening to hurt another person. Which is illegal in the real world so HAS to be against the TOS. If that's not covered in the TOS, then the TOS is crap. OK, I've just scanned through the TOS "Any threats of physical harm, property damage or acts of violence toward another individual, or group of individuals." Doesn't that cover it?

---------
Phillip Drawbridge
Website 
Facebook

I would think so, Phil! This image is horrible and the indication of it is quite clear. "KILL KILL...KILL...another human being!".

OK,.......how about there is a possible violation of U.S. Federal law,...........threatening the life of The President of The United States ? I'm sure that his name is already on a list someplace, and since he is not a U.S. citizen,.....perhaps Interpol will be contacted. I would hope that sometime in the near future he will have to be explaining himself to the authorities in whatever jurisdiction is appropriate.

"Any club that would have me as a member is probably not worth joining" -Groucho Marx

As i Stated earlier, In The USA it is illeagle to threaten the life of the president in anyway shape or fourm. He clearly violated that law,wich in turn at least in the USA,Homeland security,FBI,CIA..I am sure they would all have an intrest in talking with him.

My email to the authorities has already been written with specifics. Im only waiting to see where this image is going to be posted to provide direct links. This apparently is not the first time hes used this same theme. If you look at his gallery youll see that hes been getting away with this for some time. That Renderosity has allowed this to happen all this time is atrocious to say the least. They are sourly in dereliction of duty. They want you to abide by their TOS but they dont oversee that the TOS is followed to prevent situations like this from getting out of hand. And when it does get out of hand, theyre looking to make you a scapegoat for not following the TOS (a catch 22), which is their obligation to the community. They should then, in all fairness, get rid of the TOS since its such a burden on them to administer.

The fact that their TOS (Terms of Service) mandates that:
Members/Users will not use this community for;
Transmitting any libelous, defamatory, or any other material that could give rise to any civil or criminal liability under the law".

Punishable by; Deletion of the post/s.

And under zero tolerance: "Any threats of physical harm, property damage or acts of violence toward another individual, or group of individuals."

Punishable by; Members/Users found practicing these behaviors will immediately have their membership revoked, and access to the community permanently blocked from the community including any duplicate accounts for the same person.

Means absolutely nothing.

Message edited on: 03/07/2005 13:20

I agree with all of you people... this person has not only threatened the life of the President or any other person for that matter... but they have no heart for the many people from around the world that lost loved ones in the WTC on 9/11 2001. Their gallery is nearly all hate and bad tidings. This person is a heartless SICK BASTARD and needs therapy. This person has some deep seated and rooted issues that need to be worked out. Just look at the titles of some of their work in their gallery. The SOB is seriously on the edge of schitzophrenia or some other mental defect.

There are 10 kinds of people: Those who know binary, and those who don't. 

A whiner is about as useful as a one-legged man at an arse kicking contest.

WOW! I just went to look at that guys Gallery.OMG! This dude needs commited!To think that Renderosity as a community has let this guy post images for this long is absurd!He is clearley breaking the TOS with the evil/racial pictures in his gallery.. I am at the point where if renderosity contiunes this practice of letting this happen and dont ban this guy and his crap evil (anti world/hate everyone)pix i will leave this community...

Dunno what to say, moving this image to another gallery is hardly a solution, he needs to be banned for life !!!!!! :( (where are the damn emoticons when you need them ???)

Attached Link: https://tips.fbi.gov/

.

---------
Phillip Drawbridge
Website 
Facebook

So is someone going to write to the FBI? Maybe there is more going on with this guy? What if he turns out the to be the next Oklahoma Bomber?

Maybe give the r'osity PTB's another day to come to their senses.

---------
Phillip Drawbridge
Website 
Facebook

Sackrat: "OK,.......how about there is a possible violation of U.S. Federal law,...........threatening the life of The President of The United States ? I'm sure that his name is already on a list someplace" Yep, in the cookie jar. Maybe they don't call it "cookie jar", but you know what I mean.

-- erlik

I just noticed he has more pages of Artwork the Dog vs FOX is tastless showing a Dog killing a Fox isnt cool. and the Shots of Planes going towards the Statue of Liberty and the Eifel Tower suggesting 911 style of attack and even the 911 Photo with a skeleton standing next to a group of rescures. Before the images are removed this person needs to be reported and possibly needs to see a doctor of some sort. When they caugh Jeffrey Dauhmer (SP?) the guy who killed and ate people, they found photos of dead animals in he's house. Which is what the Dog vs Fox photos reminded me of.

He still needs to be reported, regardless of what the RO PTB decide. His gallery is filled with vile hate & other murderous threats. God only knows...he could be the next shoe bomber or worse. He should be banned, no doubt.

well, the way it works here, is that if you make a threat, and it's reported back to the Secret Service, you're put on a list (it was 6 figures long back in the early 90's, last time I saw this come up), and, every time the President visits your area(or any succeeding President) for the rest of your life, the Secret Service will contact you and want to know your itinerary for the entire time of the Prez's stay. I kid you not. This was way pre-911..

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

Well this guy needs to be on that list.

Attached Link: https://tips.fbi.gov/

Kemal, I agree with you totally. Warblade, hopefully you wont have to go anywhere. Im sure others are thinking the same thing as you. But Ive been thinking that if they only move this, this persons stuff to another location, not only am I sending an email to the FBI, which has already been done with all the particulars and URLs, but Im seriously considering contacting some other groups that might be interested in this guys stuff. Im thinking that all those here who feel violated and shocked by this and the allowance of this to occur that to not get any satisfaction from Renderosity, should make us strive to make our voices and convictions heard by whatever means necessary even if it means inviting outside groups to take a look. Hes got plenty of stuff in his gallery to piss-off many different groups. His is not a work of art but the work of hate. Im sure there are WTC friends and family survivor groups that would certainly be very displeased and disappointed not to mention Jewish groups against anti-Semitism like the Jewish Defense League that would also take great interest at the Nazism being displayed here. And there are Christian groups who would feel offended by Satanism and the anti-religious propaganda. They most certainly would put a halt to their kids frequenting here. Theres no telling what could snowball from this including financial repercussions. My only concern would be that if this gets away from us, the venders, and Im not talking about the big guys like DAZ, Zygot, Poser but the little guy will get hurt in the process. Lets just wait and see what Renderosity decides to do before going off half-cocked. So hopefully Renderosity will do the right thing by their TOS. Hah! The way things are going, they might just ban me too. Anyone else wanting to file a report, heres the addy: [FBI Tips](https://tips.fbi.gov/)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=300388

I have an idea who is having the last laugh in this thread. And perhaps i am going to join him if you headless chickens keep this idiocy up. Here you are speaking out against someone who by the looks of it is speaking out his mind. Then you might start banning me as well.

Robert van der Veeke Basugasubasubasu Basugasubakuhaku Gasubakuhakuhaku!! "Better is the enemy of good enough." Dr. Mikoyan of the Mikoyan Gurevich Design Bureau.

Like we said RobertJ, we don't really care to discuss politics or religion here in the Bryce forum, this is not the place for it whether it involves chickens in a foreign language or not. Everyone has their own opinion and I'm sure you've heard it said before, that opinions are like A-holes, everyone has got one and everybody else's stinks! There are intelligent ways to output your views, they don't have to be wrapped in hate and be hurtful. Just take a look at Picassos work.

Actually, this might could be viewed as a threat to the President of the U.S. I would think that if the R'osity powers that be had a bit of sense they would make mention of this to the Secret Service. My two cents ...

wow... lotsa replies lol, don't have time to read 'em all, but yup, I agree that's one sick fucker... Where RobertJ's image had an obviously humoristic side to it (and thus making it clear it's not a threat), this guy's image lacks any humor and can be seen as a clear threat to bush as well as the US. Might be serious, might not be serious, but it's certainly tasteless. I reported him to the FBI just for safety. I'm working on an anti-bush/american war-politics artwork myself, but with my work I hope to make people think instead of making threats. If this guy is looking to make a statement, he should take inspiration out of this "food for thought" strategy and stop posting crap like this...

(_/)
(='.'=)
(")(")This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

they killed Van Gogh grand son in Holland for makeing a Movie on a woman in Moslain [misspelled sorry] faith and that next door to where this guy live. forgot what they used to get my image out. I think it was this the first line in the TOS Renderositys Mission is to create a thriving, productive environment that encourages an atmosphere of community, respect, collaboration, and growth for graphic artists of all backgrounds.

what you see is not what you know; it in your face

Which mind is he speaking? In "no Iraq, No Problem" he on Bush's side. Now he wants to kill bush. He's anti Nazi, then he's anti gay, then he's anti God. If I say I'm a left handed hermaphroditic bycicle welder will he be against that next? This is a little boy with a lot of time and parents who could care less. He's invisible! He does a render like this and suddenly everyone notices just like they do when Marylin Manson says, "You want my little kitten to lick your nipples?" Suddenly, he's visible! What a rush! but the rush is shorter each time so he has to find something more outrageous to say. Eventually, words won't be enough, then deeds won't be enough. Get help now Allen while you can still turn back.

Being and Owner of two Dogs I found it disturbing that he shows a Dog take out what looks like an undeveloped Fox. RobertJ's artwork is just awesome and shouldnt be compared to this guys stuff. The entire gallery is about death and the possibilites of destruction mixed with normal scenery.

If that person deletes the image, here is a screenshot for all to see and keep a copy. Actually, just IM me if you need it, just so people that don't want to see it don't have to.

Message edited on: 03/07/2005 18:30

I remember Jocko's pic with the mention of homosexuals in hell got pulled. That kind of pic is NOT ok according to R.

Praising a man that over saw the death of 3000 American citizens in a terrorist attack, and promoting the assasianation the the US President (gun down bush) can't be either. Is it?

I'm hoping R comes to its senses.

Message edited on: 03/07/2005 19:08

This is one sick person....I can just imagine him sitting alone in his room, headphones on, banging to Marilyn Manson, working himself up into a severe rage. His parents(if he's a child) probably have no clue as to his dilusions/Satanism. I too have taken screenshots of several of the offending images & sent them off to the appropriate authorities. This person needs some serious medical/mental attention.

I think that he does have a right to praise Bin Laden if he wants, or say "Yuck Fou" to that guy george bush if he wants. The "I love Satan" is his right to creed/religion. The TOS does not have anything against either of those issues.

The problem with this image is that it's a call to kill a human being and/or a country (Now I don't like Bush but he does qualify as a human being). I think that can be considered as a threat. I didn't really look at his whole gallery but yeah, he probably needs medication or get off the ones he's taking right now. One thing NOT to do though is encourage him by making comments, negative or otherwise. He obviously wants to piss people off, by expressing your disgust in that comment box, your'e only giving him what he wants. I have a feeling this is a kid who needs lots of attention, not likely a terrorist but who knows.

Message edited on: 03/07/2005 20:29

If the powers that be here at R* believe that someone should be able to make such statements because they are protected by "Free Speech" then I fear I may have to either take on the powers or cease to participate in the community. As was mentioned above if I were to type in ANY of the forums that I thought another member should be killed I would be quickly banned...probably for life.

If the images were 'directed' at Osama Bin Laden or any criminal or terrorist or other foreign political figure would you feel the same way? Heads up people, this type of thread does not belong in the Bryce Forum, if you feel the need to post political threads please do so in the Community Forum for the 'entire' Renderosity community to read and express their opinions. Also that forum is closely patrolled by Mods and Admins that will see it sooner. Small personal, off topics are allowed here, marriages, moving, new baby or jobs, but this forum is not for airing your particular religious or political opinions, beliefs or bents, or opinions about someone else's....

Bryce Forum Coordinator....

Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=873940

And the madness continues

First of all, Theo van Gogh was not a grandson, or even family of Vincent van Gogh, they share names and that's about it. Furthermore Theo was not only a cineast, moviemaker, talkshow host and columnwriter but also a troublemaker, insulting other people, institutions, religions and such, not much unlike this person "Spritney". Now this never justifies murder, but this was hardly a case of not seeing it comming, he himself certainly new that it would end bad because of his thoughts, deeds and about what he usually said. If have great respect for Theo but i don't regard him as the knight who fell defending the freedom of speech, he certainly did not see himself being a knight defending it, he was more of walking on a knifes-edge, at borderline of what could and what could not.

As i said it never justifies murder.

In my opinion i think that if you look at his whole gallery it might be that he is not as hatefull as he looks through that single picture, not as insulting as it looks. Take a look at another picture in his gallery, "Stem Venstre - A World In Chaos (DK)".

This guy is from Denmark and has a strong opinion, and here people are not discussing but demanding nothing less than his virtual murder. He looks a bit like Theo, at the borderline walking on a knifes edge, so should we murder him for what he says, thinks.... Now can we put an end to this madness, if we continues this than there is only one winner, and he does not care for renderosity or even the western world as a whole...

Robert van der Veeke Basugasubasubasu Basugasubakuhaku Gasubakuhakuhaku!! "Better is the enemy of good enough." Dr. Mikoyan of the Mikoyan Gurevich Design Bureau.

I like to keep a happy little neutrality when these things break out; I'm much to young to be in the crossfire of angry old guys.

I personally dont give a rats ass if he reminds anyone of Jesus Christ walking on water or anybody else for that matter. He spews and solicits hatred and death, he always had and Renderosity allowed it despite their TOS regulations. It doesnt matter if hes a misguided juvenile or a crazed individual, Renderosity has only served to stoke his flames by neglect of intervention. We must all abide by the rules. If its good enough for the rest of us, its certainly good enough for him. Weve had members here that have been banned for less. Its not merely that his hate extends to the President and the people of the Unites States, but his hate flows out onto other groups as well. He has already been reported to the FBI. Let them deal with him on the criminality and justice level, its out of our hands as far as that goes now. We should be more interested in seeing what our gracious host, Renderosity who aspires to create a: productive environment that encourages an atmosphere of community, respect, collaboration, plans to do.

Message edited on: 03/08/2005 00:19

Obvisouly RO intendens to do NOTHING about this crazy sick crazy asshole..Along with his sick and twisted postings..And here Zhan is damn near harboring him"vitual murder my ass!" Plain and Simple! WE DO NOT WANT THIS CRAP ON HERE..If he can be heard damnit why cant we!

I left the following comment below his sick picture. "I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Frank Hawkins/Owner/DigitalDaydreams

Frank_Hawkins_Design

Frank Lee Hawkins Eastern Sierra Gallery Store

 

My U.S.A eBay Graphics Software Store~~ My International eBay Graphics Software Store

 

That's right ddaydreams, justice from sick individuals like this SOB.

Which god? @Warblade: WE?, are you talking for me now?

Message edited on: 03/08/2005 00:37

Robert van der Veeke Basugasubasubasu Basugasubakuhaku Gasubakuhakuhaku!! "Better is the enemy of good enough." Dr. Mikoyan of the Mikoyan Gurevich Design Bureau.

Zhann...Please do not take this as a personal attack, I think you are doing a GREAT job. And this has got to be one of the hardest parts of it...But... "Heads up people, this type of thread does not belong in the Bryce Forum" Are you telling me I have free speech but not here? There are some things I cannot talk about here because they are inappropriate? I know you're representing the voice of the system but you can't have it both ways. (mostly tongue in cheek) ;)

Too bad I didn't get to see that, the image has been deleted.

Claymor - My view on it is that the site is organised into forums. You are allowed an amount of free speech (it is a privately run site so there are limits to how much freedom you have)... just as long as its in the approprate forum.... and from what Zhann said, the bryce forum isn't the appropriate forum (though the community one is). Seems fair enough to me.

Message edited on: 03/08/2005 01:02

Dreams are just nightmares on prozac...
Digital WasteLanD

Cool the bad pix are gone.Thanks for speaking up CrazyDawg .

Frank Hawkins/Owner/DigitalDaydreams

Frank_Hawkins_Design

Frank Lee Hawkins Eastern Sierra Gallery Store

 

My U.S.A eBay Graphics Software Store~~ My International eBay Graphics Software Store

 

**Are in the best interest of this forum and it's members, AND I have to follow a set of rules for dealing with this type of thing, I can't just remove stuff because someone doesn't like it, also remember next time it might be you someone doesn't like...

@Claymor, you have free speech on Renderosity, but this thread is NOT Bryce related and should not have been posted in the forum here to start with...the community forum is for this type of thing....

@ everyone, the images in question have been removed.

AND, some of the things people here are saying about this person, are 'personal attacks' and against the TOS, so be warned....

As an aside, for a fact, everything you say(post) on the web, is monitored by the FBI, they have flags for words and phrases and I'm sure these image titles were flagged as soon as they were posted.

Zhann
Bryce Forum Coordinator**

Bryce Forum Coordinator....

Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...

Flak...I agree to some extent and was being mostly tongue in cheek. (I have asked Zhann's forgiveness in IM's for what was probably less than appropriate humor given the nature of the argument going on) But if I follow your argument to a logical conclusion I have limited freedom of speech in the forums but full freedom in the galleries? So "free speech" html dependant? LOL My view is probably even more stringent. I think the "free speech" argument in this case is a cop out. As you say it is a privately run site, free speech doesn't apply. They can, and in many cases should, and in some cases DO, edit and censor speech here. And I don't have a problem with that.