zskiraly opened this issue on Mar 08, 2005 · 114 posts
zskiraly posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 1:22 PM
I am not an expert on any technical matters related to Poser or V3 or any other figure, but I must say that the amount of negative comments at any new product announcement or introduction in the Poser forum is appalling. And most of these comments come from people who have not even purchased the product.
Personally I have only posted less than five times in the past five years on this board, because I try to think before I open my mouth, and I did not feel I had anything useful to say. But what is going on here with P6 is just too much.
Give CL a chance with P6, will ya ?
Zsolt
Message edited on: 03/08/2005 13:25
geep posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 1:31 PM
Very well stated ! Thanks for posting. ;=]
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
Lucifer_The_Dark posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 1:37 PM
The funny thing is the worst comments have been made by people who did actually buy Poser5 but couldn't get it to work at the time. They'll never let anyone forget how CL robbed them of their life savings even though the program does now work well enough for them to be using it, they just won't admit it in public for fear of looking very stupid & small minded. It far too much fun laying into CL every opportunity they get for them to stop & think about anything else.
Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1
yp6 posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 2:04 PM
I haven't seen anyone complaining about the price, just CL trying to sell products before they even had a proper mechanism to accept payments and the discounts they're offering. As far as P5 early adopters complaining, the complaints about how well it worked initially (or didn't) are valid. A lot of folks spent a lot of frustrating hours trying to get it to work as advertised. That got CL some $$$ early, but at the cost of a lot of customer confidence.
wheatpenny posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 2:04 PM Site Admin
Well, it's inevitable that people will complain for the firstr little while (every new software release has unexpected bugs), but after a while they will issue a couple of service releases to fix the worst of them, and it will run much more smoothly (that's when I will start thinking about buying it - it may cost me a few more dollars, but it will be worth it for the smoother start that I'll get from most of the bugs having already been resolved). So the CL-bashing is to be expected. It will die down eventually though (just like it did with P4 and P5)...
Jeff
Renderosity Senior Moderator
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XENOPHONZ posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 2:05 PM
The best approach is to bash the bashers. Shine the light of truth on them. Point out their errors to them.
Show their childish, incessant whining for what it is.
They absolutely hate it when that happens.
Positive thinking occasionally requires some negative reinforcement in order to make it truly effective.
Expressing negative thinking is frequently the path of least resistance: the job of the heckler is always easier than the job of the creator.
Fortunately -- we've got some creative types with guts.
Bullies don't like dealing with people that have guts. Predators prefer prey that doesn't bite back.
XENOPHONZ posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 2:06 PM
So the CL-bashing is to be expected. It will die down eventually though (just like it did with P4 and P5)... Uh....has it died down? I hadn't noticed.
JohnRickardJR posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 2:24 PM
Just to add a different thread to this, I was looking at the Pixels 3D site, (the people behind Firefly), and their ShaderMaker Pro, and I notice that most of the lighting and material changes being promoted for Poser 6 are actually part of the latest version of ShaderMaker and Tempest (Ambient occlusion, subsurface scattering of light etc. This would make sense - part of the benefit of licencing an existing produce would be to get these updates. It could also mean new lighting types - their website seems to be very proud of their area lights
JohnRickardJR posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 2:36 PM
Attached Link: http://www.pixels3d.com/products/
Here is the current produce page for them
moogal posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 2:36 PM
It's always seemed to me that those who complain the most about Poser5 and the announced Poser6 are those who use Poser4/ProPack with other tools such as Carrara or Bryce. If you use Poser to setup figures and animations, then the addition of Firefly probably wouldn't impress you to much. Figure in that most of the memory leak bugs were caused by Firefly and that initially users didn't understand things like shading rate and bucket size and you suddenly had people complaining that the new version (P5) produced inferior renders that took longer to make. Hopefully Poser6 will have benefits aside from improved rendering and new content, or these people are likely to start complaining all over again.
odeathoflife posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 2:41 PM
it would be nice of them to add that water simulation too :)
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Lucifer_The_Dark posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 2:43 PM
Unfortunately they'll complain anyway no matter what CL includes in Poser6 or even Poser26 for that matter, it seems like their one purpose in life is to complain, sad really.
Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1
pakled posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 3:49 PM
Ah, the early days of the Poser 5 announcement, they come back to me like yesterday..gad, what a buncha impatients..;) Actually, compared to last time (5), this is fairly mild..;) Of course, I'm still overwhelmed by 4, so I'm not in any hurry to upgrade..;)
I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit
anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)
geep posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 4:02 PM
Ah yes ...
;=]
Poser4ever
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
Letterworks posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 4:05 PM
Funnny how it all works. I remember that P5 was about the most anticipated program I've ever seen, so many here just couldn't wait and were VERY vocal about it. THen it came out and (mostly) the same people that were begging and cussing at CL to get P5 out no matter what, started complaining about ALL of it's problems. For my part, I had no problems, really. I pre-ordered P5 and was very happy with it. Maybe it was the learning curve that kept me from being fustarated, by the time I learned enough to use one of the so-called "broken" functions CL came out with a service release that fixed it. I've been happy with the program, and only fustrated with my own use of it at times. CL has my pre-order and I am waiting (NOT patiently) to see the improvement of P6. The hints and single picture of the new character impresses me. I liked some things with Judy, yes, even over Victoria 2 and 3! When 3Dream came out with Eternal Judy, EJ immediately jumped to the top of my list. I think Jesse may get there if she retains some of Judy's features. She certainly looks better out of the box, than Judy did. I guess the best I can sum it up is, I can't wait for P6! Bring it on! If it has faults I fully expect that CL will fix it. I just hope I can dredge up enough talent to use it, and would rather put my energy in that direction than to spend time complaining about something I haven't even seen yet. mike
FishNose posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 4:08 PM
And CL. I agree with you Zsolt, geep et al. I have a strong feeling that they (CL) want NOTHING better than a happy customer base, a stable product and good incomes so they can feed their kids. Just like all the rest of us. So seriously, all you complainers and doomsday prophets - let the product come out, buy it (or not), give it a fair chance and then get on with life. After 20 years in the biz, I never yet saw a bug-free release. Ever. And we won't have one this time either. :] Fish - heard all the negative crap in this forum a thousand times about a thousand products from a thousand companies - boring, boring, boring.
XENOPHONZ posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 4:41 PM
Now this is the type of "bashing" thread that I like to see. A thread that turns the tables on the gripers.
Yes.....bring on P6.
I am looking forward to it.
Defiantly Positive -- that's the way.
aeilkema posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 4:51 PM
Of course CL deserves a chance...... But the way they go about revealing their products leaves to much room for bashing, they themselves provoke it too. What else can you expect but bashing if you're going to reveal bit by bit of the product and yet expect people to pre-order to really get some savings, even if they don't know what they're pre-ordering at all.....
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
geep posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 5:08 PM
Hmmm ... it's a little bit like a "strip tease" isn't it?
If it just "happenned" all at once, it would take all the fun out of it.
AND ...
I know what I (pre)ordered ... Poser5 PLUS a whole bunch of new goodies !!!
Lights, figures, OpenGL, et al !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can't wait ......... well, maybe I can wait for a little while longer.
;=]
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
FishNose posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 5:15 PM
Revealing a bit at a time is nothing new. It's an old marketing trick. I saw an example last week, a new car model. Huge billboards, just a bit of a fender showing. Doesn't even say what make it is. And soon we'll see the rest of it. See this kind of thing all the time. :] Fish
geep posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 5:25 PM
Yeah, I think it's called "strip tease." No? ;=]
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
bonestructure posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 5:25 PM
I'm not a big Poser used. But I know their 3D program has gained a lot of respect. I think they're trying to gain more respect for poser as a serious 3D program. I don't think that's a bad thing. But it does involve changing the way the program works, and you know how people hate change.
Talent is God's gift to you. Using it is your gift to God.
JohnRickardJR posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 7:05 PM
Personally, I'm looking forward to it. Better, about two days after the download is due, I go home for Easter, away from the internet, so I'll have two weeks to form my own opinions about P6, without being able to read any of the online feedback!
Coleman posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 7:36 PM
At $90, even if it's P5 beefed up, it's worth it to me. Hopefully though, Secret #7 is that the "cancel" render button actually cancels renders. :D
FlyByNight posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 7:51 PM
I'm going from P4 to 6 so I'm looking forward to it. And I'm eagerly looking forward to the helpful hints and tutorials that will be coming along as well from so many of you. We're gonna need you, ya know. I'll be keeping an eye out for those types of threads and avoid the others. I don't expect smooth sailing but it doesn't matter because it's going to be exciting learning something new that will help me create even better images. Poser has been the most amazing program for me. I love what it allows me to do. And I enjoy coming to forums and joining others who feel the same. So, Poser 6, can't wait for you to arrive!!! Thanks for this thread, zskiraly!
FlyByNight
ShawnDriscoll posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 7:54 PM
"Give CL a chance with P6, will ya ?" A lot of the Poser crowd are doomsayers and hate the real world. Posing virtual nude dolls is their way of coping with life.
geep posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 7:59 PM
re: " ... Posing virtual nude ... " LOL !!! Prolly very true. ;=]
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
Tashar59 posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 9:29 PM
I haven't seen much P6 bashing. I thought it was suppose to be an enhanced P5 bug fix with new bonus features and content. I would think that there would not be the big P5 feasco(sp?) repeat. I would think that it would be fairly stable from the start, barring miner system gliches such as graphic cards, drivers,under spec computers. Well, that is what I keep telling myself while waiting for it.
ShawnDriscoll posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 10:30 PM
Tashar59 posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 11:06 PM
I beg your pardon? I thought those were good things. Want to explain to me how those are sucker punches? I must be pretty stupid.
Netherworks posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 11:40 PM
I'm looking forward to it too. There's a learning curve with P5 - it's advanced in comparison to P4/PP. The material room takes some getting used to but it's wonderful once it starts to "snap" in place in my mind. Especially with materials, it IS easy to get confused and I think some folks try one thing, if at all, and decree that this or that is broke (I'm talking P5 Sr4 as it stands now). Its not all on the head of the user because CL has missed things too. But we all have. Hobbyist or not, the upgrade price is not huge. Buy a couple of bundle packs at some marketplaces and you've already spent close to that.
.
cooler posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 11:41 PM
beryld, make room for me on the stupid bench too :-) Shonner, I don't see how it's a "sucker punch" to repeat what the president of CL stated repeatedly to the community, pretty much accurately sum up the roll out of P5 (fiasco is putting it mildly), and express a hope for a stable intro of P6. And just for the sake of accuracy in reporting here's the quote from Mr. Keohane... "by Curious Labs (Curious_Labs) on August 22, 2003 05:59 Poser 6 will focus on improving the technology that's already there - e.g. bug fixing, enhancements, speed, memory."
XENOPHONZ posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 11:45 PM
Frankly, I am disgusted with the endless whining directed against both Curious Labs and their flagship product.
Personally, I believe in supporting the company that -- in its turn -- supports my favorite hobby.
Slamming them in the forums seems to be the chosen blood sport of some........and in so doing, the nihilistic critics gain appropriate rewards both for themselves and for the rest of us.
By constantly attacking Curious Labs, such individuals are chipping away at the very thing that they claim to like -- if they don't like it, then why are they hanging around here?
The whining; the complaints; the slams; the ill will; the "if I don't get what I want, when I want it -- then I'll hold my breath until I turn blue!!!!!!!" tactics of the let's-all-bash-CL crowd are seriously damaging this community.
You aren't helping anyone -- not yourselves -- and least of all: your fellow Poser enthusiasts.
If "enthusiast" you are.
It's odd to see individuals that by their own words appear to hate something so much, and yet, pell-mell -- they continue to involve themselves with it.
It causes one to wonder what their real motivations are.
No wonder the good folks at CGtalk have so little respect for us.
I wouldn't respect a bunch of whiney 3-year-olds, either. And I certainly wouldn't invite them to come in and play with the adults -- in adult-oriented games.
Adults have better things to do with their time than spending it listening to the angry tantrums thrown by selfish, self-centered little cry-babies.
Message edited on: 03/08/2005 23:47
Netherworks posted Tue, 08 March 2005 at 11:54 PM
Agreed Xenophonz :) Why go to the poser forums? Why use the program at all? There are plenty of CG-related hobbies to pursue. Make avatars, design UT2004 levels, make Sims content, skin Winamp or Windowblinds - thats just a few things and there are a ton more with very active communities. How about this - spend a couple of hours a week learning how to do something new in poser - go read some tutorials. Show off what you've done so someone else may learn from it. shrugs But what do I know? ;)
.
XENOPHONZ posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 12:04 AM
There are plenty of CG-related hobbies to pursue. Make avatars, design UT2004 levels, make Sims content, skin Winamp or Windowblinds - thats just a few things and there are a ton more with very active communities.
They'd find something to gripe about in those worlds, too.
Some individuals aren't happy unless and until they are spreading their personal bitterness around -- infecting others with the same disease. And looking down upon anyone that takes a positive point of view as being "unhip". Not cool -- like them -- the oh-so-cool cry-babies.
It's their way of getting revenge on the world for.....whatever pettiness it is that they need revenge for.........
ShawnDriscoll posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 12:20 AM
Notice how so many think they're cool by telling us how they were the first ones that bought P5 and hated it so much they had to go back to using P4.
Tashar59 posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 12:21 AM
"How about this - spend a couple of hours a week learning how to do something new in poser - go read some tutorials. Show off what you've done so someone else may learn from it." Funny you should say that. I'm almost finish a Shade tutorial. Which I might add, may be useful for some of you. You are getting a version of it with P6. Then again, you might not want to bother with it. Doc. Geep, I'm not. I just have a couple of renders to finish and I'll have it up in the Shade forum in a couple of hours. Get it straight, I love my P5, that's why I have high hopes for P6.
ShawnDriscoll posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 12:29 AM
"I thought those were good things."
It's like saying to a man, "You're a good man because you don't beat your wife." Rather than because of the good he has done.
I love my wife. That's why I have high hopes for my next one.
Message edited on: 03/09/2005 00:33
Ironbear posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 1:38 AM
"Bullies don't like dealing with people that have guts. Predators prefer prey that doesn't bite back." - Xenophonz
Oh please Noble Xenophonz - spare us your wrath! Don't pecker around our feet muttering "Hairtick. Hairtick. Hairtick."! Leave us grace in your mercy to seek out the errors of our ways and stride forth upon the path of Worhipping the Neon Gods of Curious Labs again!
Salaami, Salaami - wotta load of baloney. There's just got to be a pony in this forum somewhere.
And I'll bet it's not Pink, either. ;]
waves up the thread Heya cooler - out slumming?
"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"
MachineClaw posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 1:40 AM
Well as one that started their poser use with the poser 5 pre order and waiting 6-8 months to actually use the product I've had my share of beef with CL and Poser. I went backward and got Poser 4 and ProPack and finally got into poser and didn't feel overwelmed and could have fun like the rest. Doomsayer, basher, ranter? oh yeah I've been that and am now saying prove me wrong with poser 6. I preordered, I'm hopeful but I never turn a blind eye to the past. I've seen that I'm not alone. Some of ranters and soapboxers could also be considered community watch dogs too, some may learn from our experiences and see things to look out for too.
cooler posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 1:51 AM
"waves up the thread Heya cooler - out slumming?" Nah, just saw some ripples in the water & thought Miz might come by & start a "P6 bashers? They don't really contribute anything to the community! Ban 'em all!!!" subthread
XENOPHONZ posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 2:13 AM
Oh please Noble Xenophonz - spare us your wrath! Don't pecker around our feet muttering "Hairtick. Hairtick. Hairtick."! Leave us grace in your mercy to seek out the errors of our ways and stride forth upon the path of Worhipping the Neon Gods of Curious Labs again!
Thanks for confirming our delusions to us.
Apparently, they aren't so delusory, after all........
Then again -- a laid-back form of cynicism shines every bit as brightly as the more active variety.
It's just gotten comfortable and worn-in -- like an old shoe.
Fits well, too.
Noble? Who's noble?
XENOPHONZ posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 2:16 AM
It's just gotten comfortable and worn-in -- like an old shoe.
I wouldn't look for any difference of substance from that quarter........it'll always carry the same flavor.
XENOPHONZ posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 2:18 AM
No matter what the topic.
Lucifer_The_Dark posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 2:35 AM
I wouldn't say they're watchdogs more like ferrets as they never want to let go once they have their teeth in something tasty like a good CL bashing rant.
Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1
MachineClaw posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 2:48 AM
ferret? hmmmm always told I was more like the pilsberry doughboy hahaha. CL and e-frontier got Shade 7 release right for me, I've been happy with CL and the Shade 7 support so I'm very hopeful and excited about Poser 6, just a bit gun shy til I start using the program. CL did say Poser 6 was only a major bug fix to get Poser 5 stuff fixed now there is a lot more they are saying so yeah I'm a bit leary. Hopeful just leary.
Becco_UK posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 4:04 AM
I got Poser 5 shortly after the first service release and apart from some times rendering very slow have never had significant problems with it. Poser 6 looks set to build on the strengths of Poser 5 and at the price looks to be very good value. For doubters - have a look at prices for higher end software that features cloth and hair dynamics.
compiler posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 6:51 AM
It seems to me that a lot of people who complained, complain and will complain about Poser 5 or 6 are just overwhelmed by it. They are not up to the learning curve. Let's face it, there is a huge market for people who just want to make a mostly naked girl image with minimal effort. What they want basically is a Poser 4 with a "make sexy art to post in the gallery" button and a "make porn animation for private use" button. Choose the girl, the type, the outfit (optional), the action and press "go". Poser 5 or Poser 6 is not for them. But they will keep on asking "hey, how do you make those cool renders ? I spent at least 12 minutes on my scene and it doesn't look as good. Poser really sucks !"
Tguyus posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 8:31 AM
Wow. Pretty vitriolic thread. Sounds just like the kind of "civil discourse" which pervades life here in Washington: if you don't like someone's perspective on something, label them evil and yelp for their head.
aeilkema posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 8:50 AM
That's often what happens here.... Here they label you, as compiler does, a beginner or novice who doesn't know how to use poser at all.
It's so typical and so prejudice, but I guess a lot of people around here are just that.
I've been labeled a beginner of novice a couple times for no reason at all, just like compiler did there's no reason at all for it, until people noticed my gallery and had to change their view a bit.
Stop calling people names, there's no need for it all, we can discuss something without the branding. Not every one needs to have the same opinion and some with a different opinion isn't always evil or a novice or stupid or whatever you may call them.
Message edited on: 03/09/2005 08:56
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
geep posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 8:58 AM
I think I heard that somewhere.
;=] (edited to remove all the X-rated content) ;=] Message edited on: 03/09/2005 08:59
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
aeilkema posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 9:01 AM
Forest Gump perhaps ;-)
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
geep posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 9:07 AM
Yup, ... and some peeps can't see the Forrest Gump for the trees, no? '=]
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
aeilkema posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 9:35 AM
Perhaps the movie should be mandetory for every one to see?
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
compiler posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 10:24 AM
"Here they label you, as compiler does, a beginner or novice who doesn't know how to use poser at all." aeikema 1- I did not give no name. 2- AFAIK you did not complain about Poser 5 or 6, so you were not concerned. 3- I had a look at your gallery here. This did not change my view a bit. 4- The prejudice I see in this forum is against CL. It's strange to think that they produced the software that made this forum possible. I guess some people just cannot help but whine and complain. I prefer to try and improve my work instead and, admitedly, I still have a long way to go, but at least I don't blame my tools for my imperfect work. If you don't like Poser 5 or 6 or N, don't buy it, but why do some people feel the urge to demean things in forums ?
XENOPHONZ posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 10:52 AM
Wow. Pretty vitriolic thread. Sounds just like the kind of "civil discourse" which pervades life here in Washington: if you don't like someone's perspective on something, label them evil and yelp for their head.
Civility is a wonderful thing. I'm all for it. And I'll gladly practice it whenever it's possible.
Unfortunately, in order to engage......one has to play the game by the rules of conduct that are granted.
In other words, you can't fight a raging inferno with a squirt gun.
High-pressure water hoses, axes, and chain-saws are much more effective for the purpose.
I wish that it wasn't necessary. But at times, it is.
randym77 posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 10:56 AM
Sheesh. If things are this heated now, I shudder to think of what it will be like once the program is actually available.
I love P5, and never had any problems with it. (Well, no more than with PP, anyway.) I'm very excited and happy about P6, and preordered as soon as I could. But jeez, the bashing of the bashers is getting to be worse than the original CL-bashing. People who never heard about any of the P5 problems are hearing about then now...from CL's supposed defenders.
XENOPHONZ posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 11:05 AM
If things are this heated now, I shudder to think of what it will be like once the program is actually available.
One would hope that P6 will be wonderful -- and then everybody will be joyously happy.
Right?
No.......human nature will tell. Even in a perfect environment.
It's not what's outside that's the difficulty.
the bashing of the bashers is getting to be worse than the original CL-bashing.
RE: Post #56.
XENOPHONZ posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 11:10 AM
I've about given up hope of Curious Labs ever becoming much of a direct participant in this forum.
It's a possiblity that this outcome was the goal of some.
If not, then they couldn't have accomplished the task better if they had planned it that way.
Caly posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 1:39 PM
Why did some folks turn against CL in the first place? There is a history & plenty of reasons why many folks were disappointed (to say the least) when Poser 5 first came out, and are now somewhat wary. People have the right to be wary just as others have the right to be merry cheerleaders. Me, I'm going from P4 to P6, so I'm hoping the new company running CL will make a good change. And if it doesn't work out... P4 & Daz Studio work well enough for me. ;)
Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com
DCArt posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 1:54 PM
I wish I could understand the animosity seen by some members of this community against CL and against DAZ. Both are small companies. Both work very hard at what they do. BOTH are dedicated to this community. And BOTH are severely misunderstood. I can't think of any person that is perfect, and that doesn't make mistakes. Companies are made of people ... and they are usually people who want to do a very good job. Those of us who have been using Poser for a very long time, especially through the rocky years between version 4 and the soon-to-come version 6, have seen Curious Labs go through a LOT of changes. Changes that the small company SURVIVED through, and are trying to put behind them. To reiterate the topic, let's give them a chance.
aeilkema posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 2:30 PM
Deecey, you forgot one BOTH do want to make as much money as possible..... I'm sorry but you portray them almost as angels, which they are not..... Dedicated to the community? Only if they can make money of it. They hardly participate in forums (as E-on does for example), they often neglect answering important questions. But let's give them a chance, well at least CL, I'm willing to do that!
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
DCArt posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 2:40 PM
BOTH do want to make as much money as possible..... Um, doesn't any business want to do that? Companies aren't in business to lose money! >> They hardly participate in forums (as E-on does for example), they often neglect answering important questions. That's the tragic part. We used to see the folks from DAZ and CL in here a lot more. But something happened to this community. Something that can mostly be attributed to changing with the times. You see, it used to be a much nicer community of people that shared, and got along, and did things for each other. But at the end of 2000, the Internet craze went bust. All of a sudden, people had to pay to share their free stuff. Fewer and fewer sites became available to share them .. so people started charging for them. So then the Poser community became "commercialized." And the community started complaining about how much Poser was costing them. At the same time, CL was going through some very heavy times with changing hands. Again, related to the economy. That is STRESSFUL to go through. It's good for us that they survived. That's why they need a chance. As for DAZ, yes they are a business as well. BUT they are a business that has constantly been LOWERING their prices, and now are giving their flagship figures away for free. As for neglecting questions, perhaps one of the reasons that neither company comes in here often is because of the volume level and constant threat of attack. Would you want to face that?
constantine_1234 posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 2:44 PM
There is nothing wrong with having a business for profit. Curious Labs and DAZ3D are good, honest companies, and they don't deserve all the flak. Look at all the free stuff DAZ has given over the years. Where would Poser be without Curious Labs? So there were some problems with Poser 5. But those problems were fixed years ago. It's time to move on.
Message edited on: 03/09/2005 14:46
DCArt posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 2:58 PM
Agreed, Constantine, but the CL/DAZ relationship is almost symbiotic ... the popularity of Poser is enhanced by the DAZ figures, and the DAZ figures are enhanced by the growing popularity of Poser. Even though it appears as though the companies are heading in different directions, they still have some interdependency on each other.
XENOPHONZ posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 4:36 PM
but the CL/DAZ relationship is almost symbiotic
DAZ and CL should be cooperating with one another.
It would be to their mutual advantage to do so......not to mention to our advantage.
They hardly participate in forums (as E-on does for example)
The Vue forum is a very different place from the Poser forum. For the most part, it's pretty civilized over there.
As a company, E-on has its detractors, too.....but there is a critical difference vs. the CL situation. Namely, that the majority of the participants in the Vue forum actually enjoy using the program, and they tend to support the company that produces Vue.
Whenever a Vue-hater pops up in the Vue forum, they don't find a warm welcome there from kindred spirits. Instead, such an individual usually finds that their constant complaints land on unsympathetic ears.
It makes a top-to-bottom difference in the atmosphere of the place.
Don't get me wrong -- the Vue forum has its little flaps from time to time.
But even at the worst, it doesn't compare to the Poser forum for negative vibes.
Then again, it might have something to do with the difference between landscapes and naked Victorias holding swords.
Victoria seems to anger people (for some reason). Message edited on: 03/09/2005 16:38
DCArt posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 4:51 PM
Victoria seems to anger people (for some reason). Well, hell, she has a better wardrobe than I do! ROFL
XENOPHONZ posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 4:52 PM
Yes.....to a great extent, Vue just doesn't attract the same sort of a crowd as Poser.
That fact helps to keep E-on active in the Vue forum.
XENOPHONZ posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 4:56 PM
she has a better wardrobe than I do! ROFL It's all V3's fault. Whatever V3 wants, V3 gets. ;-)
constantine_1234 posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 5:18 PM
DAZ and Curious Labs should be best of friends. DAZ3D is the house that Poser built.
XENOPHONZ posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 5:40 PM
DAZ3D is the house that Poser built.
Yes, in the final analysis -- it is.
Likewise, DAZ's mil figures (especially V2/V3) have helped to popularize Poser far beyond the level that either Posette or Judy could have obtained on their own.
DAZ and Curious Labs should be best of friends.
They should be. Such a scenario makes perfect sense to me.
But, as has been suggested in an old thread -- I like to tilt at windmills.
DCArt posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 5:47 PM
Netherworks posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 5:57 PM
The positive folks who have shared out of the kindness of their heart, taught us things, gave us good freebies and products to play with - all of us, really, have build the house... no the town that Poser is built on. Would it be nearly as exciting without contributions from folks like Kozaburo, geep, stewer, ockham, Mec4D, Anton, Traveler, Bushi, Yarp, Hogwarden, scourge and hundreds of others out there? We've all pushed the program beyond its core abilities, all of us and everyone. "Sheesh. If things are this heated now, I shudder to think of what it will be like once the program is actually available." IMHO, Most of the dissenters will act like this: If Poser 6 has a lot of shortcomings, there will be a lot of "I told you so!" If Poser 6 needs just a few fixes here and there, it will be "broken". If Poser 6 is great from the start, there will still be something wrong with it or "why didn't they do this with P5" and so on. Most of these people won't be happy no matter the scenario because as has been pointed out by others, and I think rightfully so, they are miserable to begin with. shrugs ;)
.
XENOPHONZ posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 5:58 PM
I wonder how much of the "feud" is perception only?
Good question.
For those of us on the outside, it's hard to tell.
It sure does look like a "feud" is what's going on sometimes. And that's not a good thing. It doesn't benefit anyone.
However: the individuals that actually know the answers to these questions aren't about to come in here and start talking about it.
;-)
XENOPHONZ posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 6:05 PM
Netherworks --
You've impressed me.
Great website that you've got, to boot..........I need to take a more serious look at it, I think.........
The positive folks who have shared out of the kindness of their heart, taught us things, gave us good freebies and products to play with - all of us, really, have build the house... no the town that Poser is built on. Would it be nearly as exciting without contributions from folks like Kozaburo, geep, stewer, ockham, Mec4D, Anton, Traveler, Bushi, Yarp, Hogwarden, scourge and hundreds of others out there?
Wow.
One hears this type of thing so rarely, that it's like opening a door -- and finding fresh air.
Thanks.
geep posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 6:16 PM
"If it has 1,000 bugs ... ... I will still be happy with Poser6 !" - Dr Geep - 2005
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
geep posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 8:06 PM
"But, if it has 1,001 bugs ... ... I will not be happy." - Dr Geep - 2005
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
geep posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 8:08 PM
"However, until the 1,001st bug bytes me ...
... I will be happy."
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
geep posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 8:12 PM
"I will plan, however, in my endeavor to find that 1,001st bug, ... ... to have many, many hours of fun playing with it." - Dr Geep - 2005
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
geep posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 8:14 PM
"And that's about all I have to say about that!" - Dr Geep - 2005
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
Penguinisto posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 9:36 PM
Cripes, guys... get a room already. /P
Netherworks posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 9:44 PM
XENOPHONZ posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 10:56 PM
Here's one.
BTW - they are an interesting couple. They just love guests.
DCArt posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 11:02 PM
Spiritbro77 posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 11:14 PM
So let me get this straight. Anyone that had a problem with P5 doesn't know how to use Poser and only makes naked Vic scenes? Anyone that is Leary after the P5 debacle is a whiner and complainer? Interesting concept. If you have a problem with a program, don't say anything. Why? Because Curious Labs are GOD, not to be blasphemed, and anyone that has the Gaul to criticize our God must be put down at all costs? Bullshit. I've never seen so much ass kissing in my life. I'd go further but would get banned so hell with it. Go back to the rah rah CL can do no wrong bullshit. Flame me if you feel like it, won't change the fact that putting down those that have serious concerns about the upcoming app is just plain wrong.
Message edited on: 03/09/2005 23:24
DCArt posted Wed, 09 March 2005 at 11:21 PM
I know I, for one, am not saying that folks shouldn't have concerns. I'm just saying that we should give them a chance, is all. Some people have reasons to be concerned. P5 really didn't work on my machine until SP4, but that didn't prevent me from upgrading to P6. And I'm not saying that you should upgrade too, just give it a chance.
XENOPHONZ posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 12:03 AM
"Gaul"?
I looked it up.
The ancient name for the country now known as France.
I seem to recall that the Romans conquered it.
"Leary"?
As in Timothy Leary?
He was some sort of 60's guru. Advocated getting high as a means to achieve world peace.
I would have been leery of him.
won't change the fact that putting those that have serious concerns about the upcoming app is just plain wrong
No one has put down anyone expressing serious concerns.
We have, however -- put down those that bash.
There is a fine distinction at work here.
Flame me if you feel like it
I only flame people that I feel deserve it.
Your initial approach to the matter is a little too straightforward and honest to merit flaming of the kind that you are referring to.
If you've got "serious problems" with P5, then state them. I would. I wouldn't hesitate to do so.
But I'd do it in such a way as to attempt to build up. Not to tear down and destroy.
Much of the criticism isn't constructive -- it's simply a forum version of hate mail. And who is going to bother with the suggestions of someone like that?
Shaking your fist in someone's face isn't the way to win their good opinion.
But it's a great way to get a fight started.
If one chooses to start a fight, then one shouldn't yell "it's not fair!" when someone else hits back.
"I have a problem with P5. I don't like the way that the Judy model looks."
vs.
"Listen, you IDIOTS!!! MORONS!!!! THEIVES!!!! How could anyone make something as ugly as that stinking JUDY piece of ........(TOS violation)........!!!!!!! You guys stole my life savings!!!!!!!! (TOS violation)(TOS violation)(TOS violation).........!!!!!!!!!"
This, of course, would be followed by various colorful suggestions concerning the staff at CL's ancestory; manhood; criminal tendencies; evil motives -- etc. etc........
You betcha I'll flame away at that sort of attitude.
In such a case, it's deserved.
I am reminded of the man that I once saw at McDonald's. It seemed that the workers at McD's had forgotten to put an extra large fries into his combo meal the night before. So he had come back, and was incoherently yelling, cussing out the folks behind the sales counter for a solid 10 minutes or more. A woman came over to me, and asked me if I had a cell phone? Would I please call 911?
I did then, and I'd do it again.
In fact, I'd take a personal hand, if the situation called for it.
Many of the CL bashers remind me of that man in McDonalds.
I've seen others of his kind elsewhere.
No one is worshipping Curious Labs........
.........nor should anyone be demonizing them.
Either attitude is equally wrong.
It's just that the demonizers either don't see or don't care about the damage that they are doing. Or about the spectacle that they are making of themselves.
Then again -- they might know exactly what they are doing.
If that's the case -- then as kids, they probably thought that it was great fun to trash the neighbor's car, too.
If one chooses to launch personal attacks, then one shouldn't be surprised when the same tactics are returned in the mail -- postage due.
Spiritbro77 posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 12:46 AM
Yeah I ran that post through spell check and it Fubared my post, I should have rechecked it, sue me. "No one* has put down anyone expressing serious concerns. We have, however -- put down those that bash. There is a fine distinction at work here." ""It seems to me that a lot of people who complained, complain and will complain about Poser 5 or 6 are just overwhelmed by it. They are not up to the learning curve." Bullshit. Thats just one example above. Sounds like he's saying if you complain about P5 your not too bright and can't learn the app. Complete and utter Bullshit. I've seen it in numerous threads here at Rosity. Someone brings up the fact that the P5 release was flawed and they couldn't use the app and all of a sudden they are "bashers" or can't adapt to the learning curve. "I am reminded of the man that I once saw at McDonald's" McDonalds doesn't ask you to pay for your food two months in advance, MAYBE get it to you when stated, screw up the preorders and coupons, then when the food finally gets there and isn't what you ordered, tell you to take a hike because it's YOUR fault the food isn't very good (as CL's did after the P5 release). If they did they wouldn't stay in business very long now would they? "This, of course, would be followed by various colorful suggestions concerning the staff at CL's ancestory; manhood; criminal tendencies; evil motives -- etc. etc........" I don't see that happening here, what I see are a lot of folks that got burned when they bought P5, and are cautious about the P6 release. Asking questions, reminding those of you that are oooooooooohhhhhhhhh so hot over P6 that history has a way of repeating itself. "No one is worshipping Curious Labs........" My ass they aren't and you're one of the Deacons. "If one chooses to launch personal attacks, then one shouldn't be surprised when the same tactics are returned in the mail -- postage due. " I haven't seen any personal attacks by those that question or complain, but I am seeing quite a few by the cheerleaders. Thats cool, but remember those same tactics can be returned to you in the mail. In SPADES!
compiler posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 5:34 AM
"Sounds like he's saying if you complain about P5 your not too bright and can't learn the app." Naaah. That only concerns "a lot of" of the people. Mainly keep on whinning after the initial Poser 5 problems, more than 2 years after these problems were solved. There are also people who CAN use the proggy, but just like whinning. But these are a minority. (Nice gallery you have, BTW). OK, CL botched the Poser5 release (I personally suspect that they needed fresh cash at any cost for their survival). OK, it took them a year to make up with it. But that was 2 years ago. Can't we move on, now ?
randym77 posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 6:01 AM
CL isn't even the same company they were two years ago. They did great with Shade. I don't think it's fair to hold what happened with P5 against them.
That said...I really haven't seen any "bashing" of the type described. At least, not recently. When the P6 pre-ordering was first announced, some expressed frustration over CL's offering us a "pig in a poke" - selling the product without telling us what features we're getting. More annoying were those that implied that anyone who pre-ordered P6 was a fool. But I really can't recall any actual CL-bashing.
Of course, I'm sure that will change once P6 is actually out...
geep posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 6:54 AM
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
geep posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 7:07 AM
And ... WHO got up on the wrong side of their hospital bed this morning ??? ;=]
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
Caly posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 7:35 AM
comes out in pom poms and a little cheerleading skirt,
beaming with blind devotion
Rah rah!
Oh wait...
Wrong room. ^^
heads back out seeking the Chocolate Lovers sign
Message edited on: 03/10/2005 07:36
Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com
geep posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 8:33 AM
Wait ! ... WAIT !!! ......... COME BACK ... This IS the right room ... We might even find some chocolate ... Well, we might ... ;=]
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
cooler posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 8:50 AM
Caly posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 8:57 AM
ooooo Do you happen to have some dark chocolate truffles too? purrrrrr
Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com
geep posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 9:01 AM
Yeah, c'mon cooler ... NaySayGuy wants to see them pom-poms again. ;=]
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
XENOPHONZ posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 9:06 AM
I haven't seen any personal attacks by those that question or complain, but I am seeing quite a few by the cheerleaders. Thats cool, but remember those same tactics can be returned to you in the mail. In SPADES!
Good trick, copying my lines.
;-)
As the inspiring John Kerry would say (deadpan): "B-R-I-N-G.......I-T.........O-N".........
We didn't start the fire. We are, however, seeking to put it out. At least, insofar as such a thing in possible in this environment. Which, admittedly, is somewhat like trying to stop the rain.
Oh, well.
If you can't understand the difference between the reasonable discussion of problems and gratuitous bashing, then I can't help you. We've arrived at the sort of impass from which we simply go in different directions.
*"No one is worshipping Curious Labs........"
My ass they aren't and you're one of the Deacons.*
Believe this tripe, if it makes you feel better.
Obviously, you know me about as well as Adam's cat.
CL deserves the support of the community which has been built around their product. That doesn't mean that we should approve of everything that they do as a company -- but it does mean that participating in a lynch mob isn't the way to go.
However, as both I and others have repeatedly mentioned -- bitterness always seeks to spread itself around -- like a tapeworm in the gut. And the results of the infestation are as positive as the worm.
Without due personal diligence, it's an easy trap to fall into. The negative side tends to be.....interesting.
That's why people like bad news. So long as they aren't involved themselves.
Yes, I am put in mind of the man at McDonald's.
Distinctly.
cooler posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 9:06 AM
XENOPHONZ posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 9:07 AM
comes out in pom poms and a little cheerleading skirt, beaming with blind devotion Rah rah! Oh wait... Wrong room. ^^ heads back out seeking the Chocolate Lovers sign On this one, I agree 100% with Dr. Geep. Pulll---ease come back!
XENOPHONZ posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 9:12 AM
I like chocolate.
And chocolate likes me.
In fact, it likes me so much that it refuses to leave. It tends to hang around and doesn't go away -- without a lot of work.
So, I have to avoid chocolate.
But thanks anyway, cooler.
Caly posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 9:16 AM
That looks delicious cooler. :) I need to get a chocolate fondue
pot and strawberries. @@ Is it spring yet? >
Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com
geep posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 9:17 AM
with a musical note
Oh ....... C a l y ..........
Where ... ARE ... you?
;=]
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
geep posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 9:24 AM
All together now ... We need pom-poms ... We need pom-poms ... We need pom-poms ... We need pom-poms ... etc., etc., etc., ............... ad nauseum ... ;=[
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
ynsaen posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 10:00 AM
Interesting. After my surgery, this will be a fun piece to follow up on.
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
XENOPHONZ posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 10:16 AM
I wish you the best for your surgery.
This thread is on its last legs, I think.
Then again -- these things last for a week or more on occasion.
Pretty soon, I'll be too busy playing with Vue Infinite, followed by P6.
And I'll be having fun doing it. I'll leave the misery for others to wallow in, as they choose......however, if they should ever tire of being down all of the time -- then they are welcome to join us on the sunny side of the street.
It's a good property. I recommend it highly.
geep posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 10:25 AM
Yup, well said! ;=]
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
Spiritbro77 posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 10:47 AM
"CL deserves the support of the community which has been built around their product" Why exactly is that? Curious Labs is a company. Period. They are out to make money as are all other companies. Most PC's are run on Microsoft OS's yes? The entire web community is built around individuals that predominantly run MS OS's correct? So I guess we all owe loyalty to Microsoft because the web community has pretty much been built around them? Anyone saying anything bad about Windoze better watch out, they are "bashers" and deserve to be bashed themselves. What a load of crap. Curious Labs doesn't "deserve" anything. If they produce an app that does what it's supposed to and is stable, then they have done their job. It's what they get paid for. If not, then they DIDN'T do their job and will ultimately pay the price for their incompetence. Trust and respect are earned Xeno,and a lot of the trust CL's once had was lost after the P5 fiasco. Now they have to EARN it back by producing a stable and well built app.If they do so, I'll upgrade, if they don't I wont. Don't sing it, bring it. I keep hearing CL did a good job with Shade 7. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Shade been around since the mid 90's? I'm pretty sure CL had nothing at all to do with the coding of Shade 7. They are simply marketing it for their parent company.
ming posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 11:43 AM
"It seems to me that a lot of people who complained, complain and will complain about Poser 5 or 6 are just overwhelmed by it. They are not up to the learning curve.
Let's face it, there is a huge market for people who just want to make a mostly naked girl image with minimal effort. What they want basically is a Poser 4 with a "make sexy art to post in the gallery" button and a "make porn animation for private use" button. Choose the girl, the type, the outfit (optional), the action and press "go"."
So You're saying we're stupid lazy horny people?
compiler posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 12:21 PM
I don't know who are the "we" you are referring to.
If you read the forums in the past years, then you'll see how many people said something along the lines of "The cloth room is crap, I can't do anything with it."
Well, obviously some people can, so it's not the program.
My statement applied to "a lot of people". A good hint when you want to know wether someone can be trusted about his/her "this app is a crap" statement, is to click to see his/her gallery and judge wether it is the software or the user who needs improving.
I won't enter into the lazy/stupid question, but if you want an answer to the "horny" one, just peek in the gallery and make the effort to browse every single pic posted for the last week, and the comments they get.
Numerous threads have already discussed this topic ad nauseam in this forum, so 'nuff said.
The professional attitude when one is disatisfied with a program is to think wether it is the program or the user who needs improvement. If it is the user, get a tutorial, if it is the program, then just dump it and move on to something else.
Poser is cheap and gives cheap results, what else could be expected ?
If this is not enough for you, buy Maya.
If you can't afford it, read posts of some very talented persons in there who pushed Poser out of its limits.
Whinning about Poser or CL or DAZ doesn't improve anything in the community.
Now, if you have a good tip, tutorial, freestuff or workaround to improve Poser's workflow, I'm all ears.
Message edited on: 03/10/2005 12:23
DCArt posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 12:27 PM
geep posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 12:34 PM
Uh ... yup, ........ what compiler said!!! ;=]
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
XENOPHONZ posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 12:50 PM
Yes.....compilers' got the right of it here. Ditto.
Netherworks posted Thu, 10 March 2005 at 6:36 PM
I'm with Compiler, geep and Xenophonz and those of like minds - I'm just sick of the bickering, whining and complaining without engaging in some civil way to see if there's a way to find a solution first. on the other hand... RAH! RAH! RAH! Bring on Poser 6, I'm ready!!! Weeeeee! Woot Woot! best cheer I can come up with on short notice. ;)
.