Attached Link: http://www.poser-free-store.com/

Does this mean all the sites that use "Poser" in their names will have to change them???

I doubt it. Poser is a rather commonly used word. When you ask what a poser is, most people think it is someone trying to act cool who isn't really cool. Probably just when the site has something to do with 3D graphics is there going to be a problem.

You mean like PoserPros, PoserWorld, PoserStyle, MalePoser...

Gonna be interesting to see if they "crack down" on Daz for the PoserPro site.

Oh, that makes SOUND business sense. Close anything with the word "Poser" in the site title -- when your product is utterly dependent on third-party materials. I hope this is just a dirty rumor.

Off and on I have thought about creating a small Poser related site, thought of some good names, but realized that I would be at risk using the word "Poser" in site names.

I guess we could all hazard opinions on the legality or lack thereof, but it seems like no one really knows how far trademark or copyright go these days. There is no doubt that CL could pose some good legal arguments in the case of somebody else using "poser" in a sitename or product name, IMHO.

My guess is that it had more to do with the association of "Poser" and "free store." It may have been the bad choice of a name, because some could take it as being warez.

(quote) "Sorry we have to close poser free store curiouslabs has told us to reaname our website and remove the word Poser from the name if a new free store is coming up only time will show. Thanks for all your support." (unquote)- - - - - -

re:" ... Close anything with the word "Poser" in the site title ..." I doubt it because ... It is possible that CL does not want anyone to imply that Poser is free. = OR = That the website is "free from Poser" ... = OR = That the website is "free of Poser" ... In any case, it is understandable that CL made the request. There may, also, be other factors (content of website?) that are not intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. cheers, dr geep ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

RatsCloset at DAZ said he thinks it has to do with a recent court case. Some printer manufacturers tried to sue companies that were selling ink cartridges from Web sites using their trademarked names. The judge ruled that they let it go too long. They would have had a case if they had filed suit immediately, but they let web sites use their marks for years before trying to crack down, and therefore lost their right to do so. That may be on CL's mind.

Still stupid whatever way you look at it. JMHO, of course.

Duz this mean we need a new word fer 80's hair & makeup bands?

WARNING!

This user has been known to swear. A LOT!

Do we need a new word for people who make a lot of noise for little substance, for that matter?

Welcome to the 3D human figures forum.

I seem to recall that one of the poser utilities, possibly PBoost, originally had Poser in the name and curiouslabs requested it be changed.

I have a really serious problem with those who claim a monopoly on words (note: I mean the words by themselves, not the unique way in which one may arrange them.) Language belongs to the entire species, not just certain parties.

Message edited on: 03/10/2005 11:59

The French language is going to be in real trouble if CL is serious about this. It's hard to find a paragraph that doesn't contain the verb "poser" (to put or place).

My python page
My ShareCG freebies

Attached Link: http://www.iptablog.org/2005/01/01/a_monster_trademark_case.html

This sounds like the BS that's been floating down from Monster, the maker of high-end (read: overpriced but no better than the other stuff) speaker wire and audio/video cable. They've claimed a trademark on the name "Monster" and have been going after other companies that have been "infringing" on that trademark. They've already extorted an undisclosed sum from Monster.com.

Message edited on: 03/10/2005 12:20

Message edited on: 03/10/2005 12:21

If Daz changes the PoserPros site name to something else, it might serve two purposes. People will be quicker to forget the unfortunate circumstances of the take-over of the site if it has a Daz-proprietary name, which will also re-inforce the continuing competition between Poser and Daz|Studio. Right now I don't see any brand-name advantage to "PoserPros", but I do see a downside in regard to the recent scandal there. If they change the name, they can start with a clean slate.

Well, NaySayGuy is a "poseur." <----- NOT French ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

This makes no sense to me.

Can Microsoft shut down www.microsoftsucks.com?

Apparently not, or else Microsoft would have done it by now.

What about the Drudge Report's rival (such as it is) -- the "Drudge Retort" @ www.drudge.com?

Can Matt Drudge shut them down? After all, they are using his name.

What if someone came up with a website called "posersucks.com"? What then?

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I had previous contact with Curious Labs directly, a few years ago. Their opinion: You can't use the word "Poser" in the name for software. On the other hand, it was ok to use Poser in a web site name. So if this Poser Free Store story is legit, then Curious Labs has changed their minds, and they need to post a public message for all to see.

Xenophonz, google up the domain name mikerowesoft.com sometime :-)

Directionary of Defination of Poser 1. A puzzling or baffling question. 2. A person who poses. Corporate bullshit! God "I'm loving it" :) oh no a trademark - hope they don't make me eat one of their burgers.

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

"DazerPros"? nup, doesn't sound right... "DigitalDolliesPros"? nah... "NVIATWASPros"? hmmm...perhaps? Any better ideas for a "Poser" replacement word? cheers

I still think that it relates to the overall choice of name. "Poser Free Store" gives the impression that it's a place where free stuff for Poser is stored. Otherwise, we would have heard something from PoserPros, Poser World, Poser++, Poser4U, Poser City, Poser Fashion, Poser Gallery, Poser Mania, Poser Style, and Posertutor.

It was a place where free stuff for Poser was stored. And no, it wasn't raunchy stuff. It was architecture stuff. Think Danie and Marforno, only free.

ProserPose

Mmmmm...I'm waiting for the day a certain Burger Chain (no-names..think Golden Arches) decides to crack down on folks of Scottish extraction for using their copywrite without written permission. Just THINK of the revenue they could rake in in damages for that infringment of their corporate image ? Then they could crack down on folks in clown suits ?

Randy ... yeah, I realize that. But the name could also attract warez'ers, and I am willing to bet that was the main issue. This is a W.A.G., but it makes more sense than squashing the use of "Poser" in any web site (EDIT: Web site NAME or domain name, that is). Especially since we haven't heard of any other issues (and perhaps by now they would have been mentioned if they existed). ANOTHER EDIT: Please note that I am not implying that the site WAS for warez'ers ... only that the name might have been a beacon for them. I want to make that clear, so as not to hurt anyone's feelings.

Message edited on: 03/10/2005 14:34

I don't see what the big deal would be. So what if it attracted warezers? As long there are no warez there, what's the harm? It would only impede them from finding real warez.

I don't think it would attract warezers, anyway. Search on "poser free," and you get tons of Poser free stuff sites, and messages about M3 and V3 being free now. People looking for warez would search for Poser warez or Poser crack or Poser serial.

I wonder if they misunderstood what kind of site it was. Or if this is just the beginning, and other sites will receive their C&Ds in the coming days and weeks.

BTW - keep in mind the fact that a communication from Curious Labs isn't the same as a court order. Perhaps these individuals simply didn't want the hassle of litigation -- so they bowed.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

so why doesn't everyone with ten bucks go and register a poser web domain from GoDaddy.com? After a few thousand websites are registered, and hosted, what is CL gonna do? Spend millions of dollars on closing each and every one down? I hardly thinkso, if that's the case, then a call should go out to boycott buying their software. A use it, but don't pay for it kind of thing, and hit them where it really hurts, the pocket book. If you think about it, instead of spending those millions on building a better product, they will have wasted them on NOTHING. And now, after the aforementioned boycott, they have no revinue. Poser gets sold once again. Hopefully to discreet :)

Since no one really knows what the real issue is, maybe starting a boycott bandwagon might be a bit premature. ???? --Rebekah--

Hmmmm.... Didn't Madonna sue a disco for abuse of her name? Of course, since she was the first person in history to be called Madonna, it all makes sense . . . . Wake me up when sanity's back in fashion. mac

hmm..maybe it's me, but isn't a 'free store' a contradiction in terms?..;) Yeah, poseur is the big hair band kind of attitude, and poser as a question as in..
Mr. Michael Dumbotton, of 3 E. Sedgwick lane has presented us with a poser..in how not to be seen..(bush blows up)
-Monty Python..;)
maybe if they changed it to 'expensive store?'..I wonder if it has anything to do with the 'free content download' thingy (forgive me, I'm still struggling with Poser 4..;) that 5 was supposed to have
And now that you mention it, Paramount has been suing, or threatening to sue, all sites with Star Trek content, for years..of course, without that, the internet would be approx. 36% smaller..;)

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

Well since the word "Poser" bothers Curious Labs so much, lets delete the word from the community. Rename this forum 3D human figures forum. Poser Pros could be DAZ Studio Pros. Etc. I see no problem eliminating the word Poser from the community at large.

Curious Labs owns the software program poser. it does NOT own the word poser. It has somewhat of a stand when it comes to websites with poser-related content. It doesn't own the rights to any content created for use in poser. No one can copyright or trademark a single word. It has to be a phrase, sentence or paragraph. They could prevent someone creating software with the same name, if its similar software, but they really can't prevent someone from having a web site with the word poser in it. Its probably a case of CL taking offense in some form, to the site name "poser free," as a sort of slander, or something along those lines. And the site owners probably didn't want a confrontation. CL also can't prevent anyone from hosting or distributing free poser content, so long as its their content and not something that CL created themselves. E.D.

pakled, the name may very well have meant store as in "storage" rather than meaning store as in "marketplace"

Perhaps these individuals simply didn't want the hassle of litigation -- so they bowed. Oh, I'm sure that's the case. But seriously, how many sites would go to court if they got a similar C&D? I don't thing any of them would. It would be very expensive, and not worth fighting over for any small business, let alone the personal sites. I doubt even DAZ would protest too much. They'd either work out a deal, or change the name. (I love ProserPose. LOL!)

" Since no one really knows what the real issue is, maybe starting a boycott bandwagon might be a bit premature. ???? --Rebekah--" Never too early! :)

"No one can copyright or trademark a single word." Nope Single words/names are commonly trademarked (think Chevrolet, Wendy's, Xerox, etc). And just for the record here's the official trademark listing for Poser from the US Patent & Trademark office, Trademark Electronic Search System (TESS) Word Mark POSER Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: computer programs for digital rendering of images and printed articulation, including graphics and image creation. FIRST USE: 19950524. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19950524 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 74630736 Filing Date February 6, 1995 Current Filing Basis 1A Original Filing Basis 1B Published for Opposition January 2, 1996 Registration Number 1963998 Registration Date March 26, 1996 Owner (REGISTRANT) Fractal Design Corporation CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 335 Spreckles Drive Aptos CALIFORNIA 95003 (LAST LISTED OWNER) EGISYS AG CORPORATION BY MERGER, BY CHANGE OF NAME FED REP GERMANY WILHEMSTRABE 44-46 TUBINGEN FED REP GERMANY D-72074 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

ah..there is that..;) hmm..didn't know you could do patent lookups that fast..

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

How about "BenderPros"?

So, why don't we have a contest to rename this forum? Sounds like fun. Maybe the prize could be a 3d human figure program that shall remain nameless? :)

*"Yeah, poseur is the big hair band kind of attitude"*What are you saying, that I have big hair? :-)

Well if that's the case then that means a whole lot'a people owe a whole lot'a other people a whole lot'a cash... does that mean guns'n posers owes CL royalties on all their stuff too? E.D.

For your consideration, I submit the "That Which Must Not Be Named Forum" and the "You Know What Forum" as possible substitutes. Edited to add: I would have suggested "The Positions Forum" but that sounds like something you'd find over on the other "R" site. ^^

Message edited on: 03/10/2005 16:51

How about "The human form in 3D" forum? :)

To ExistentialDisorder: I'm afraid Cooler's right. You can copyright a word, if you want to spend the money and go through the legal trouble. Marvel Comics, believe it or don't, owns the word 'mutant.' And while they're not very strict about its public use, they make damned certain no other comic company uses it. It's why DC coined the phrase 'metahuman'. Also, the word 'xerox' is copyrighted. Technically, any time you use it it's supposed to be capitalized and though it's common practice to do otherwise, it's not supposed to refer to making copies. It's supposed to be used to refer to the machine that makes copies.

I don't know if CL owns the word 'Poser' though. But they definitely have a trademark on that named software, which means they can protest any software-related enterprise choosing to use the word. And that includes web-sites.

As for a new name for the forum, I say let's go with 'Shirley'.

kmw

Message edited on: 03/10/2005 17:09

I just think this whole thing is just so downright silly!

"As for a new name for the forum, I say let's go with 'Shirley'." Shirley you jest :)

First, I'd want to see the letter telling them to stop. I drove through Missouri once, and it was enough to make me a "show me" kinda guy. If it is true, it's one of the stupidist things CL could do. How many sites support Poser and use the name? Most everyone has hit PoserPro's, but what about PoserWorld? PoserStyle? MalePoser? These sites, by their existance and name, actually help Poser sales. Who wants a 3D modeling program without support? Likewise, it's the Poser community that keeps the product alive. This is not the way to win friends and influence people.

" To ExistentialDisorder: I'm afraid Cooler's right. You can copyright a word, if you want to spend the money and go through the legal trouble. Marvel Comics, believe it or don't, owns the word 'mutant.' And while they're not very strict about its public use, they make damned certain no other comic company uses it. It's why DC coined the phrase 'metahuman'. Also, the word 'xerox' is copyrighted. Technically, any time you use it it's supposed to be capitalized and though it's common practice to do otherwise, it's not supposed to refer to making copies. It's supposed to be used to refer to the machine that makes copies."

No you cannot either copyright or "own" a word. You can however trademark it (literally a "mark of trade" representing a business & their goods/services). However a trademark does have some restrictions. It is industry specific and outside of that industry can be freely used even trademarked by a different type of business.

Using the example of Marvel Comcs & "mutant". Assuming they have trademarked the term they can only restrict it's use WRT to comic books & the characters involved. Legally there is nothing they can do if I want to open a chain of restaurants named "Mutantburgers". edited to add: *"...and DON'T call me Shirley"*Message edited on: 03/10/2005 17:27

This is not the way to win friends and influence people. Since when have Curious Labs ever, EVER known how to build confidence from their userbase, though? Bascially, it's the same old same old. They haven't learned anything from their previous escapades and missteps. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

Would be nice if someone from CL spoke up about the matter. Not wanting any confidences broken, just an explanation of what their beef is when it comes to use of the P word. Howsomever, I don't think I'm gonna hold my breath waiting.

"Howsomever, I don't think I'm gonna hold my breath waiting. " No cause then you'd be a Blue Byrdie :)

I was thinking more like a dead duck. But hey, whatever works...^^

OK, hows this; all the sites with (unmentionable word) in their name move shop up here to Canada & substitute (unmentionable word) with "Hoser"? (For those who don't know, Hoser is a Canadian "term of endearment" ;-) Personally, if I saw sites like FreeBassPros, FreeBass++, FreeBass City, FreeBass Style, etc etc...I'd be sayin' "WOOHOO!! Free advertisin'!!!

WARNING!

This user has been known to swear. A LOT!

"Duz this mean we need a new word fer 80's hair & makeup bands?"

We always called 'em Poodle Rockers ;)

The liver is evil - It must be punished.

cooler says: "Using the example of Marvel Comcs & "mutant". Assuming they have trademarked the term they can only restrict it's use WRT to comic books & the characters involved. Legally there is nothing they can do if I want to open a chain of restaurants named "Mutantburgers"."

Well, I'm going to assume you know a lot more about this than I ever will. Tho I probably used the wrong terms my facts were valid/true. Marvel has copyrighted (or 'trademarked') the word 'mutant'. And if 'Mutantburgers' came anywhere near what they thought was an infringement on their property, don't think they wouldn't try to stop you. Trust me on this. I have a letter from their lawyers in my basement threatening to sue me for a minor infraction of one of their characters. kmw

kmw - I believe Marvel may have trademarked "X-men", but I doubt they would be foolish enough to waste time and money in trademarking "mutant", unless they sell a comic book titled "Mutant".

"The forum formally known as Poser" and then we use a wierd symbol that no-one can pronounce, like this . Didn't work for an artist formarly known as symbol, now known as Prince, who was formerly known as Prince. Um... something like that.

Your specialist military, sci-fi, historical and real world site.

They seem to have this bizarre delusion that anything and everything "mutant" is theirs by Divine Right. Just like a certain author thinks anything "vampire" is hers via the same mystical process, and another one has a similar fixation with "dragons". Unhealthy, if you ask me ;-)

My friend TESS tells me there are two registered trademarks for the single word mutant... #78472727 Rednex Inc in S. Carolina for motorcycle frames #78264724 AI BEAU CO., LTD. in Osaka, Japan for eye/sunglasses, goggles, etc now Marvel does have or (had) Mutant X, New Mutants, Mutant Gear, X-Men Mutant Gear, etc registered but there is no record that they ever had or even applied for a trademark on just plain "mutant"

wouldn't ya know there'd be a 'Poseur' out there..nah..I liked some of the big hair bands back in the day (when I had little hair, well, maybe more hair than I do now..;)..but then I originally was gonna be 'gadfly'..but someone beat me to it..;) I guess we could always be the 'not Daz | Studio forum'..;)
btw..if there is a legal action in motion, Curious Labs would be 'advised by council' not to say anything about it, so you're not likely to find out anything...

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

Why does cooler always have to throw a cool blanket on things by injecting facts and truth? thats what I want to kno.

Aren't my opinions and hot hatreds enough? Who made cooler the prince of truth just because they know what their talking about? That should not be enough.

I'm afraid Cooler's right. pakled
So what?!!?? If i think that 'trademark' 'copyright' and 'patent' are interchangeable terms, then I AM RIGHT.

Aren't I? Or maybe i am just a poser, in the dictionary sense of the 'word'.

1. boring is in my job description 2) My coronation was this past Septober 33rd in the courtyard of the Basilica of Our Lady of Perpetual Motion, (the chapel at Blessed Mother of Acceleration was booked). Didn't you get your invitation? 3) Murphy's Law #56. Interchangeable parts won't

Boring is my job description...
'boring' is no excuse. The truth is always boring and terrifying. Hence its low rate of acceptance.

My new site will be named coolerpose.com or popularposetruth.com. I will expect very few hits. But, on the plus side, no litigatation.

3. Murphy's Law #56. Interchangeable parts won't They will with a big enough hammer.... heh

I love the domain name of "coolerpros.com". lol

Pass me a "Kleenex", and "Xerox" me a copy, and that dumb-founding question sure is a "Poser" to me.

Eternal Hobbyist

 

Had a look at the final Poser 6 info on CL website: thought maybe they'd been planning something of their own called "Poser Free Store" - but doesn't look like it - the new Content Paradise's Free Stuff area is just called "Free Stuff"

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that "Xerox" doesn't wish to be copied....... .....ok...I'm going.....

<-insert words of wisdom here->

There's a large IBM plant in my town. The employees are not allowed to use the word "Xerox." They "IBM" things. Seriously! As in, "Karen, IBM a copy of this for the file." Meanwhile, Xerox tries to keep people from using their name as verb, for fear of losing their trademark. They always say "photocopy."

Why not rename to The Poseur Forum? :P

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

Attached Link: http://www.posermax.com

This topic of using the word "Poser" in the site name. CL does have a problem and that is time. With Poser World up 6 or 7 years, Poser Pros for three years, plus many others up almost as long. They may have lose any trademark on using the name for a site as long as its only part of the name. So the problem with "poser-free-store.com" maybe something else. Now, I've called and talked to CL and also email them becuase of my site posermax.com. So far they have not reply back to the email. But the person, I talked to on the phone say he saw no problem with the site having the word "Poser" in it but he will check with legal and again no reply back. So only time will tell this story!

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.

But are the P***r Free folks absolutely certain this is not some kind of prank being played on them? Lot of cyberhoaxes & such going on lately -- look at the latest e-bay/paypal scam.
Were it me, I'd take every step possible to verify the origins of anything like that before going into panic mode & shutting my site down. After all, this could be the work of a jokester ... or someone with a grudge.

Message edited on: 03/11/2005 10:00

Qualien says: "Why does cooler always have to throw a cool blanket..." 'cooler'? 'cool blanket' on things? Amusing choice of words... :) kmw

what did I say about cooler? I'm lost here, folks..;) Actually, Trademark, patent, and copyright are similar concepts, but any lawyer will tell you they're very different animals, with different levels of protections and obligations.
I'm not too worried about whatever name they give the web sites, as long as the URL's don't change..just more updatin' to do..

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

Excuse me for being totally dense but when does a mesh object constitute "software"? All of the "Poser" sites I visit have meshes. CL is selling "software" as far as I can determine.

I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.

nickedshield, For legal purposes, (copyright, trademark, etc.) 3D mesh objects are considered software.

and remember that a 3D Object isn't really an "object" it's a bunch of co-ordinate data/code and Data/Code = Software. If you're able to claim purchasing of 3D models for your work, you list them as "Software" in your tax statements too.

Thank you cooler and bigjobbie I learned something useful.

I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.

I wonder if it is a content paradise issue. Sixus is now PoserForums, PoserProducts, and Poserfreebies; which is awfully close to Poser Free Products. Maybe they decided it was too close.

ratscloset
aka John

Has anyone thought it was perhaps Poser was seperated from the other word (I'm just tossing Ideas here. I haven't been to the other forementioned sites in a while and don't know how they have it listed) So what I'm saying is that they may not of wanted Poser-Free-Store but would of been ok with poserfreestore. Donna know, any of you law-ers out there wanna edumatacte me?

Curious Labs could do us a favor and explain just what their attitude or policy is. We should know if it's been changed. It could be a real mess if all those Poser web sites need to change their names and domain registrations.

Some of the differences between Trademark & Copyright (or Intellectual Property 101) Copyright is automatic and immediate, as soon as the expression of an idea is "fixed in a medium discernable by eye or machine" it is protected. Copyright can be applied to any creative work of "sufficient originality" Trademark can only be applied to a commercial entity, goods or service. Trademark must be applied for and protects a symbol or wordmark that represents either a business or the good/services they provide. Words, names, titles, short phrases, and common objects cannot be copyrighted. Virtually anything representing a business/goods/services can be trademarked. Copyright only protects a specific work. Trademark protects a word, symbol, logo, etc, within a specific industry. Copyright does not need to be defended, nor officially registered to be effective. It cannot be lost only sold or given away (Public Domain) Trademarks MUST be defended or they can be lost through "dilution". (the words nylon & cellophane, as well as "smiley faces" are examples of trademarks lost through neglect) Copyright has a term of life+ 70 years for individuals and 95 years past 1st publication for corporations (work for hire) and cannot be renewed Trademark has a life or either 10 or 20 years & can be renewed indefinetly. A copyrighted work that has fallen into the Public Domain remains there. It cannot be "re copyrighted" A trademark that hasbeen abandoned can be reregistered even by a different person/business that the one who originally owned it. Similarities Permission to use a trademark or copyright can only be given by the legitimate holder (or an authorized agent) The "fair use" exception can apply to either copyrighted works or trademarks. Permission to use a copyrighted or trademarked work can be withdrawn by the legal holder (or agent) at anytime, for any reason, unless proscribed by a signed contract.

Attached Link: http://www.posermax.com

"Trademarks MUST be defended or they can be lost through "dilution". (the words nylon & cellophane, as well as "smiley faces" are examples of trademarks lost through neglect)" This is my point, with PoserWorld use the word "Poser" for manys years (I do think it the oldest with Poser in the name), CL may have lost the trademark of the word but not for the name of a software package. Now, if CL does come after me to change my site name. I most likely will. Only for freindship and peace in "Poser-ville".

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.

Ohhh Im sorry !!! I didnt know about this thread before now in this very moment. The case with Free Store was that I asked CL if we could use the name poser-free-store.com as name of our site. They just said no. No actual reason was given. We was just told to changes the name because it was their trademark. Thats why we closed down...and now to read the thread from the beginning :-)

ming, "Words, names, titles, short phrases, and common objects CANNOT be copyrighted."

Ming "Words, names, titles, short phrases, and common objects CANNOT be copyrighted." They are trademarked. "McDonalds" is a trademark not a copyright

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.

Awww...uhhh...how sad...some of you good people think we made this story about CL up....please you can see the mails postet in RFI http://www.xfx-3d.com/postnuke/html/index.php?name=PNphpBB2_12a&file=viewtopic&t=40&start=4000 Snif-snif...its true :-)

ohhh and for the name poser-free-store...it was just a joke Kleopetra came up with in a more or less sane moment...and Ill shut up now :-)

Do not think you made it up, Skygirl. What I meant was, maybe someone pretending to be a CL rep sent you a phony C&D by way of a prank. It's been known to happen, but not I see in this case. Sorry about your site woes, this really sucks rotten eggses. Hmm, maybe I oughta lob a few of those at whoever dreamt up the whole notion of monopolizing bits & pieces of the English (or any other)language that way. Stinkers, the lot of 'em!

Attached Link: http://www.xfx-3d.com/postnuke/html/index.php?name=PNphpBB2_12a&file=viewtopic&t=40&start=4000

"Awww...uhhh...how sad...some of you good people think we made this story about CL up....please you can see the mails postet in RFI http://www.xfx-3d.com/postnuke/html/index.php?name=PNphpBB2_12a&file=viewtopic&t=40&start=4000 You can't read the message unless you're a member.

it's not hard to sign up, free membership, & they even let me in :-)

Cracking down on web sites that contain some variant of the word "Poser" in the name will only garner ill will, a LOT of ill will. Insurance companies have the legal right to perform credit checks on every one of us on a regular basis. But just because something is legal, does not make it right.

So, CL may have a perfect legal right to clamp down on the use of Poser in many fan-related web sites, but is it the right thing to do?

A better solution would be to ask any site which contains the word "Poser" in its name to establish a Curious Labs logo and link to where the software may be found and purchased, as a pre-requisite to using the word. That way nobody gets mad and both parties win. CL gets more revenue from ad-driven sales and end-users can just Google the word "Poser" to find other end-users and content.

So... how bout' it?

 Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things!  ; )

Skygirl indicated that the situation arose because she and her partner asked permission to use "poser" in the site-name - CL said no - it wasn't a "crack down" - so we can assume the best way to get "Poser" included in your site-name is to NOT ASK permission from CL then hope they don't notce or bother about it til a few years have passed and the trademark protection lapses - However, if people DO ask, the proviso(spelling?) of including the a nice big badged link to CL and Poser homepage would be a good idea. But, in the end, I guess saying "no" outright to any requests saves them alot of hassle - because if a site gets "official" CL support, then CL would have to keep checking back all the time to make sure the site doesn't go all poser-p*rn or anything...or write up contracts setting out ToS and whatnot...

You are absolutely right bigjobbie, the situation arose because we asked permission. They gave us a no and we closed down the site. That is all there is in this story. And that is nothing big. We have in no way been hunted down by CL or anything like that...for Kleopetra and I it is only a question about buying a new domaine name and re-upload the site with a new name.

That's not entirely true. According to the communications that were posted, Curious Labs was considering the proposal, and asked for a business plan. When one was not provided, they politely said "no." I still find that response very confusing.

Ok over again :-) When our site was an entirely free stuff site CL told us no, but that dont make any difference in our end. If we want the site back on line it have to be under a different name :-)

Somebody have told me that CL allows the use of the word Poser if its a store. They just want a cut of the cake in that situaation. Maybe it was a no because they couldnt make any money out of us. Dunno, but still; it dont change a thing in our end...:-)

Skygirl, you should hold a little forum competition for a new site name : I'll go first - "Poseable-Polygon-Super-Fantastic-Free-Site" best wishes, your freebies were awesome Cheers

Thanks bigjobbie and after your name suggestion I guess a cometition is not nessesary...poseable-polygone-super-fantastic-free-site is a born winner LOL

no probs, my pleasure! heheh

I still think "coolerpros" is a swell name. lol

Ardiva, I think so too.

Trademarks MUST be defended or they can be lost through "dilution". That dang Cooler is right again. Re xerox, kleenex, etc. Every professional writer used to learn that when you use the word 'kleenex' in a short story or novel, you would get a letter from Kimberly-Clark telling you to stop it, because if kleenex becomes widely used as a common noun (i.e. dilution), it will not be defendable as a trademark, a trademark which is worth a lot to its owners.

Now let me get this straight: Skygirl decided to ask CL for permission after the domain name was registered and the site was up? CL said no, because it was free stuff, but CL said that if it was store it was OK? But then CL wanted a percentage of revenues? Or have I misunderstood.

You have misunderstood :-) CL never said it was ok if it was a store site. Something indicated that they maybe would have allowed it if it was a store site (you can read the mails from CL over at RFI), but they never said so...:-) And yes the domain was registered and the site was up when we found out we had to ask permission...we actually didnt knew that using the word poser was a problem...

Thank you for the clarification, Skygirl. If I could ask one more question (as a guy who has a commercial site in the works and my be planning another one), what made you, after getting the site up, suspect that the name might be a problem? Or that you had to ask permission?

(Have joined xfx-3d to read the emails.)

Message edited on: 03/12/2005 20:07

Over at PoserPros thebert told in a thread that he have started up a new site called Posermaxx. Questor told him to ask permission from CL to use the word poser. Then I thought Kleopetra and I had to do the same....:-)

Thanxx Skygirl!!! You and this thread have been very informative to me!

No prob. Anything to prevent other from ending up in the same silly situation :-)

"Trademark protects a word, symbol, logo, etc, within a specific industry." Example - a car Made by Chevy, a very well known Italian arms maker and a small, beannie like hat all have the same name "Beretta"

Why shouldn't speech be free? Very little of it is worth anything.

Um, ........ did you forget the TV show? ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Doc, That would be "Baretta"

Oh, well, ....... NSG spells it "Beretta." (he's not allowed in "bar's") ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

I recieved a email today from CL

"We are working on the Trademark issue relating to Poser. Once we come to a better solution, we will let you know. I expect to have an answer later this week."

waiting to see. "Better solution"

thebert

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.

This is really not a good time for Curious Labs to retroactively decide that web sites should not use the word "Poser." They're liable to hurt sales of Poser 6.

Extract: "This is really not a good time for Curious Labs to retroactively decide that web sites should not use the word "Poser."" Comment: Hmmm. The only people saying that (or, more accurately, implying that) are people outside of Curious Labs. Strikes me as a case of over reacting to someone else's breathless bull

I have posted this in the merchants forums and as many of you won't have access I put it here too. ---------------------------------------------------------- Curious Practices - to sell or not to sell Many of you will know me, or at least of me. Many of you have purchased my products at Renderosity, my own website, even on Ebay. I have provided content for Poser for around five years now. I was one of Renderosity's first merchants in the Marketplace. As far as my products go, well some of you like them, some don't, such is life, but I feel confident that none of you think that any of them are illegal, and indeed they are not. That is why, a few weeks ago, I was shocked to be informed by Ebay that certain of the CD-ROMs of my Poser content were being removed from their listings. Of course I immediately queried this and was told to get in touch with the intellectual rights owner to sort it out. Now I was even more confused because the intellectual rights owner is actually me. Anyway, after reading through Ebay's emails again I discovered that my accuser was none other than Curious Labs. It seems that they use a third party company for their anti-piracy. It seems that this company, Internet Copyright Enforcement run by a Mike Watso, otherwise known as NukePirates.com, thought I was selling pirate copies of Poser. So I emailed them to let them know the disc only containes content for Poser, not Poser itself. True to most companies form they never replied. I tried Curious Labs instead, through their Contact Us form on their Website. In a matter of a few hours a person whom I only know as Fish had the whole mess sorted out. They said sorry, assured me it wouldn't happen again and that was an end to it. Fair enough. I relisted my discs, sold several and relisted them again. Sunday 17th April. Ebay email to say that they have again removed my sitings and this time locked my account. What had happened, yes you guessed. They assured me it would never happen again, but it had. Once again Mike Watso had dropped the ball and expected me to catch it. This time I didn't even bother emailing him first. This time I sent a rather bristly email, complete with completely understandable four letter rant, to my old friend Fish. Who immediately apologised. Sorry? Sorry wasn't good enough this time. Once can be forgiven, but this time my account was locked, my good name had been besmirched and I was losing sales at Ebay. Finally I appealed Ebay's decision and fired an email off to NukePirates.com Fish was very sympathetic, after hearing that I needed him to contact Ebay he straightaway set about the job. Infortunately in vain. What happened their I doubt I will ever know. Meanwhile Mike Watso sent me an email, claiming I had breached a copyright by using the words Poser and Store in my product description. Quote: We had originionally had your auction cancelled for a copyright infringement on using the POSER STORE name on your auction site. :End Quote I sent Fish a second email to query this, does Curious Labs own the copyright to those two particular words. For nearly five years I have called my website PoserStore, until recently I had the domain name PoserStore.com (now pdblake.com) registered. If I remember correctly even Daz3D use the name on their site, or at least used to. Fish never responded, I'm still waiting for a reply. It could be the fact that I mentioned the 'C' word, compensation for closing me down for four days (and counting), dragging my name through the mud and basically running me around in circles for the last few days, of it could be that he/she's busy checking on the legality of that copyright claim. Personally I think the claim is rubbish. If it's not then there are going to be an awful lot of locked websites and stores before long. Now, I could get my ebay account reinstated apparently, by admitting guilt and promising not to break the law again. As I have done nothing wrong, then I refuse to do this. Ebay can stick their account. I also doubt I will get very far with any compensation claim, I just don't have the money to fight with. What really worries me is this, if they can do this to me, someone who has supported their product for so long, then they can do it to you too, and not bat an eye lid about it.

Attached Link: http://www.curiouslabs.com/link/category/7?sbss=308

Paul I've not received any email from CL on the name of my site, but is the meantime, they have add my site to the Online Communities Link Page. So I'm not sure if I can use the name of PoserMax.com or not? Now I do think you have a good case that you could win. but you do need to find a lawyer. good luck thebert www.posermax.com

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.

pdblake, In lieu of a response from Curious Labs I can at least answer this question (see also my other replies in this thread)... "does Curious Labs own the copyright to those two particular words" No. Words, titles, short phrases, etc. cannot be protected by copyright. Tney can, however be protected as a trademark.

FYI - Poser3 was marked with "TM" (TradeMark) Poser4 and up marked with "R" (Registered Trademark) ;=]

Message edited on: 04/21/2005 15:32

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Attached Link: US Patent & Trademark Office.

Here is the current Trademark information on Poser http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=t6a3ho.2.6 It's a live mark.

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=t6a3ho.2.6 That doesn't seem to mention Curious Labs, just some German company. Or am I not looking at it right:)

EGIsys owns Curious Labs

Or rather Owned... Hrmmm.. That means the Trademark is not up to date.

OK. Looks like the word Poser is Trademarked. Now it's time for the English majors to come up with the derivitives. Poserism shouldn't be a problem, it's an adjuctive. Poser by it's trade mark is a noun. Poserology is another good one...the study of poser.

I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.

"That means the Trademark is not up to date. " I'm not really up on US law, being English. But does that mean that it's not valid, or doesn't it matter?

Just another thought, if Poser is trademarked to EGIsys who no longer own Curious Labs, then the trademark does not belong to Curious Labs. Does that mean that Curious Labs are in breach of the trademark?

No. A transfer of trademark can occur.

Well the last time all this came up I suggested we refer to this program as "the app which shall not be named" You could always cll your store DAZ Studio store, I'm sure DAZ would love the publicity :)

Right. God, what a confusing business:)

That would be entertaining, sue them for being in violation of their own trademark.

I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.

::mutters under breath:: Hey Bro, I think it's time we go back to lurking...

Confusing Yes, but CL may just shoot they own foot. If They are not stoping site or groups from using the "Poser" they can lose the trademark or if the "Poser" becomes a verb like "can you xerox, this paper" and if they do try a stop the communities from using "Poser" the basksash may hurt them in the bottm line. Also with site like Poser World, Poser Pros and other being around for years, they may have already lost the trademark on "Poser".

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.

Bert, You are so wrong about that one.. PoserPros, Poserworld, and any sites ofthat magnitude went the correct route years ago... They ASKED for permission...

"computer programs for digital rendering of images and printed articulation, including graphics and image creation" So, were any of these sites selling a competing product, i.e. a computer program (content is NOT a program) for digital rendering of images and printed articulation, including graphics and image creation? In other words, was anyone else selling a 3D animation or 2d paint program called 'Poser'? If not they are not in any trademark violation* *(unlike the Puck figure in the Renderosity store that continues to violate our trademark on 'Puck' as a name for Poser content, specifially an original figure--which we might note Renderosity has continued to refuse to do anything about, apparently because they don't understand trademark laws and don't have anyone who does, as JeffH claimed at one point that the name 'Puck' could not be trademarked, though it has in fact been trademarked by several companies for completely other things.)

I'm the asshole. You wanna be a shit? You gotta go through ME.

::disabling e-mail notifications::

Unlike Copyright, you must go through the process of Paperwork for Trademark Protection. So, if you have received Trademark Protection for Puck as a 3D Mesh Figure, then you have recourse, if not, you have none.

ratscloset
aka John