Attached Link: http://www.daz3d.com/shop.php?op=itemdetails&item=3164

Sweet. Even still uses the original UV so the old MilDragon textures will still work. Also, the non-upgrade product comes WITH the MilDragon 1.0.

Awsome, I know what Im going to get later.

Yeah saw it and bought it instantly.Especially the Eastern Dragon is so cool and he comes with a real nice texture.I really hope that DAZ makes a Pose Set for the Eastern Dragon.Oh boy and the textures by Ravnheart are damn good.I like this lizard,it is imo much better than the first one.

If by my life or death I can protect you, I will!

yeah...and check out the awesome new textures in the PA section nudge nudge wink wink (ok...so its a shameless promotion point..what can ya do...I am shameless LOL) Rawn

I KNEW I was going to regret looking. I'll never have any money :( Downloading now...along iwht the new textures AND the Zombie.

Gill

       

gg Yes life as a Poserfan is hard.

If by my life or death I can protect you, I will!

What a waste of money.... I'm glad there are a number of great looking dragons one can get for free or for very cheap. They really expect me to pay as much for one dragon as I paid for Poser 6?

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

hrm it'll only be $20.00 for me if I get it before the 30th....I just got paid too...

Tirjasdyn
http://michellejnorton.com

Attached Link: www.poserfreebies.com

Hmmm... for the upgrade from MilDragon 1 Was: $49.95 On Sale: $24.98 The price for the MilDragon 2 standalone is higher. IMHO, DAZ's prices have gotten really inflated over the past year or two. So I'm really not interested... especially since Sixus1 has some free dragons at poserfreebies.com. He also has some monsters in his store that about a third of DAZ "sale" price...

Nah, for what you get, I don't think the price is that high. Many people would pay that much just to finally get a good Eastern dragon with morphs and textures. BTW PapaBlueMarlin, your link needs to be fixed. Also, my seam guides for the Mil Dragon (1 and 2) are up in Free Stuff now. ;) SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Attached Link: http://www.poserfreebies.com

Kind of depends on how much use you have for dragons. I think my collection is fully loaded with big beasties. But your seam guide for #1, I am interested in. :)

Message edited on: 03/15/2005 16:47

True, the last time I actually used a dragon in an image was when Valandar's free Land Dragon came out. ;) I just meant that if you're looking for a good complete dragon set, the prices are pretty good. The morphs are what I think make DAZ's dragon so much more useful than the others. Heh, hope the seam guides can help though. :) Thanks, take care. SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Even better . . .

It's not even a new model, it's just a new CR2 with addons and a oriental dragon. I do like that they made mimic compatibility in this one, but at the upgrade price not a chance I'm getting it. I'm sure the Daz register is just jinggling with sales as the Mil Dragon was a popular item.

Can we all now post promo's for saleable items in the Poser forum now, or is it only for DAZ recycled items?

There's a rant to ev'ryone Though the sites we divide And the stores are all small It's a Daz world after all It's a Daz world after all It's a Daz world after all It's a Daz world after all It's a Daz, Daz world 'Comeon everybody sing!!! Sorry couldn't resist, I'll behave now.

"Can we all now post promo's for salable items in the Poser forum now, or is it only for DAZ recycled items? " No - policy is the same as has long been stated and established. If you made a product, or are involved in making, testing, or marketing it, you have to post in Product Showcase. If you came across it as something new that excites you, you can post, but you run the risk of anything from catty comments to having the thread moved by and admin. "It's not even a new model, it's just a new CR2 with addons and a oriental dragon. " Just like the upgrade from Mic1 to Mic 2, or Vic 1 to Vic 2, huh? Wish DAZ would show better product previews in their store, I'd be interested in seeing what the actual morphs are instead of just a list. A lot of their product promo's seem to have gotten kind of perfunctory of late.

Please move this post to the product showcase forum.

The reason for posting it here is that DAZ tends to use their own forums to make announcements and some members tend not to check their site as much. I agree that I'd have to see a lot more promo images before I would be even tempted to buy. DAZ's promos have been very unhelpful for a while now (since about M3). The price and the bad promotion don't leave me with much incentive to buy...

whoot whoot!! It is totally a good thing that I paid my friend yesterday LOL.

♠Ω Poser eZine Ω♠
♠Ω Poser Free Stuff Ω♠
♠Ω My Homepage Ω♠

www.3rddimensiongraphics.net

 

Why? The thread wasn't started by Daz, just people that enjoy the Mil Dragon and are interested in Mil Dragon 2.0. I have visions of Monty Python Holy Grail running through my head.... "Merchant! Merchant burn 'um!" Please if you moved every "product" thread to the showcase the forum would be a lot deader. Fans of products talk about the products. Plus it gives me a chance to jump up on a soapbox and say....<> "booo....booooo!" however your entitiled to your opinion as much as the rest, care on with your agenda errr comments.

Please let's not get carried away with the Product Showcase forum. That is a place for merchants to "showcase" their products. That's what it started as and that is what it should continue to be. If they start sending every post containing a for-sale item to the Product Showcase forum, there will be no more pics in this--or any other--forum.

Attached Link: http://www.runtimedna.com/

Talking about new Poser item is entirely different to advertising a new item. Moving this post to the Product Showcase might actually do the recycled dragon a favour - seems to be a lot of negative comments about it! If anyone's after a unique dragon rider texture to apply to M3/V3 then the Industrial Age textures at RDNA may fit the bill.

well an $80 price tag will throw off a lot of newcomers. Im eligible for teh upgrade but will not be getting it intime for the sale. It is a nice improvemtne to the dragon though.

♠Ω Poser eZine Ω♠
♠Ω Poser Free Stuff Ω♠
♠Ω My Homepage Ω♠

www.3rddimensiongraphics.net

 

PoserPros has long had a good eastern dragon, reasonably priced. ;) I'm looking for an Easter Dragon though - one with bunny ears, big feet and lays colored eggs. :D

.

Attached Link: http://market.renderosity.com/softgood.ez?ViewSoftgood=35081

Pardon me for getting upptity, but some people need to give their obvious anti-DAZ or anti-Curious Labs agendas a rest. For crying out loud, there's nothing wrong with people getting excited about cool products. As already stated, there's no rule that says non-merchant enthusiasts can't pose news about cool new Poser toys here. There's no way that everyone is going to find the same things exciting. Is it difficult to ignore threads that don't interest you? No, it's easy. I could do without more Emoticon Guy threads, for example, but would I spoil other peoples' fun by complaining? No way! More power to those enjoying those threads. Anyway, although I will purchase DAZ' MD 2.0, I'd also like to share my admiration of this other dragon, available here, which is less expensive, and more likely to be unique-appearing in renders, as less people will have it. (Check link)

SS: I mooched a copy of your seam guides too - thank you very much :)

xoconstle :) I don't believe anyone has been anti-DAZ or anti-CL. It's been a matter of preferences in terms of wanting detailed promotional materials and competitive pricing. And I think those are reasonable expressions. Maybe not always tactifully stated, but still reasonable. To me, from the promo image, it's hard for me to determine exactly what is different from the original version. I do suspect a lot of people will buy and others will vacillate about buying, such as aeilkema and I, due to the huge investment in upgrading to Poser 6. I really liked the original model, but the price at this point is daunting. In addition, I think whenever something is released, its also fair to alert the community to the fact there are other merchants who might offer a similar product at reduced cost :) Becco, any product that people pass by and get excited about is fair game to be posted in this forum. The first mil dragon was intensely popular and DAZ promoted it well by giving away a LE version. So members of Renderosity have a long history with this model. The only way this would be moved to the showcase was if someone working on MD2 posted promotional material in this thread.

Whenever someone makes a remark about DAZ he's suddenly anti DAZ.... I've just purchased some items at DAZ and monday I did order Poser 6. Guess I fit into the anti DAZ or CL crowd perfectly.

We're just making remarks about the price, because perhaps we're more price concious then others..... Just in case you haven't noticed but DAZ is actually charging more for new items then they used too. A lot of the new stuff released recently is imo very unaffordable. Especially when knowing I've just ordered Poser 6 for $80 with quite a number of new figures, poses, textures, clothes and props. Compared with that the dragon is just very expensive.

That's not anti this or anti that, but just an observation.

Please stop being so judgemental, it really is blocking the free conversation lately. I'm already considering leaving for a while now, since more and more people seem to have become quite unreasonable and judgemental about others. Well it's late, I'm off to bed. Good night everyone!

Message edited on: 03/15/2005 20:10

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

PapaBlueMarlin and aeilkema, your objections to my comments are fair, I read them respectfully. I'm aware that my use of "anti" is an oversimplification. I regret that I appeared judgemental, because my reaction was to what I see as habitual judgement of the two mentioned companies by some persons. I won't name names except to say that neither of you are whom I had in mind, and that the person(s) I was thinking of generally have my respect. There are some who are known for a history of objection to all things DAZ or CL, and it gets a little tiresome in excess, that's all. Blocking the free flow of conversation is exactly the opposite of what I'd hope for here. That's why I don't think this thread needs to be moved. It's not my place to be judgemental of others for differing opinions. If I remark on negativity henceforth, I'll try not to paint with a broad brush. Please don't leave, aeilkema, at least not 'cause of l'il old me. :-)

so what is really the difference with this dragon than the 1.0 dragon. It appears the old textures fit. it does come with the Eastern Dragon...but only 1 texture.... i keep asking if there is anyone working on addtional textures for the oriental dragon...no answer yet

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

"This new Millennium Dragon product includes the Millennium Dragon 2.0 figure, the new Eastern Dragon and the original Millennium Dragon as an added bonus. With a completely reworked mesh, new add-on head pieces and over 80 new morphs, the Millennium Dragon is better than ever in this 2nd version..." The wings of v2 look different than v1, v2 now is mimic compatible which the jaw of the v1 was not compatible. v2 now has more morphs or different morphs. Additionally 19 conforming head peices for different looks. Daz states on the product page completly reworked mesh, but must be just morph and cr tweaking if they have used the v1 textures. Mil Dragon v2 product page leaves a lot to the imagination, though RawArt's products have nice promos (Rawnrr always does nice promos) that show off more of the dragon and the new products features. I just can't see enough differences in Mil v1 and Daz is including v1 in the new v2 package. Confusing.

can someone post an image of the various morphs?

I never bought the original MilDragon, because it was so pricey. Just wasn't worth it, when I had several other nice dragons.

I'm thinking about getting the new version, though. With the PC discount, it's $35. Not back for three dragons.

You can see more images in this thread at DAZ.
http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=16434&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

MachineClaw wrote:

"It's not even a new model, it's just a new CR2 with addons and a oriental dragon."

Well, it has 80 new morphs (Brand New Body Types, Body Spikes, Head Shaping Morphs, and Mimic Compatible Phonemes/Expressions.)

A completely reworked mesh, including new Joint Updates

19 Brand New Add-on(Conforming) Head Pieces for the Millennium Dragon:

• Beard, Chin Fins, Ear Fins 1and 2, Ear Plates, Ears Curved, Head Plates 1-4,
• Head Spikes, Head Whisps 1-3, Horns Back, Horns Side, Jaw Fins,
• Jaw Horns Large 1 and 2.

Plus a brand new Eastern Dragon with Mimic Compatible Expressions and Phonemes.

Sounds like a pretty terrific update to me.

aeilkema wrote"

"I'm glad there are a number of great looking dragons one can get for free or for very cheap."

True, but they're not THIS dragon. ;)

Becco_UK wrote"

"seems to be a lot of negative comments about it!"

I only see 3 people complaining in this thread, and none in the 6 page thread at DAZ, exactly where are all of those negative comments? Ya gotta link?

Coldrake

PapaBlueMarlin wrote: >> " can someone post an image of the various morphs?" Got the V2 upgrade the minute I saw it this evening. I will post a few morphs later tonight. Can't wait to install it!

---

FatCatAlley.net | Now Playing "SpaceCat 5" Parts 1 and 2

Are the textures P5-friendly?

I'm glad someone said something here about the new version. I find it takes to long to load a page a Daz, I'm on dailup. Between all the avitars and the 100 or so individual texture images, instead of one with the different color tex inset in the same image, I don't have the day or two it takes to load it. I usually have to rely on the promo and that is a miss and hit way to do things. Good thing Daz has that 30 day return policy. Can someone tell me what the file size is of the upgrade. I need to plan my DL.

xoconostle, I won't leave just because of you and I'm glad you didn't have me in mind at all :-) I do accept you apoliligy (I'm not sure if this is spelled correctly). I know there are others that who always put down DAZ or CL sometimes justified and sometimes not. I don't like it either, it creates a terrible atmosphere. Then on the other hand there are those that think that DAZ or CL can't do anything wrong at all, and that isn't healthy either. Next time when making a comment I'll try to be more specific and pick my words as carefull as possible so that it's understood as an observation not an attack. Leatning all the time.....

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

I must say that i like the Upgrade a lot.The Eastern Dragon alone was it worth,he is the best.And you know taste is something personal.

If by my life or death I can protect you, I will!

I bought the upgrade immediately and with my discounts it was only $13. Soo, the beasty is worth it and the Eastern Dragon is very cool. It uses Easy Pose technology and therefore is a charm to pose. I was looking so long for an oriental dragon and this is the first one that really looks great.

There are three mat pose folders included for P4, ProPack AND P5 plus there is a P5 material folder under materials as well.

All the MilDragon 1 textures can be used on the new version and the previous version had only one texture included as well. There is a texture pack with 3 new textures for the dragon over at DAZ too. And I like to see one free dragon that looks that good plus has as much add ons and morphs as the MilDragon.

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

So, what is the file size for the upgrade DL, Please.

Yesterday I bought the Mil dragon, then come here and saw this thread about the Mil Dragon 2.0 being released :( I wish I'd come here first........lol

STILL has idiotic finger-rib coming off the broken elbow in the wings. STILL has misproportioned body parts. I don't care if they add a hundred more spines and a thousand more teeth... if the underlying body isn't built logically, the beast will never get off the ground. not impressed For $80 dollars, I'd expect a new model, not a rehash and rejointing of an old mesh. I will buy a good dragon, despite already having a large library of them. This isn't a good dragon. Carolly of Dragonkeep

beryld, the upgrade has 4 files: one for the Eastern Dragon and 3 for the MilDragon - each download is about 20 MBs.

Carolly, a dragon is a fantasy creature - no one has ever seen a living dragon so saying that it has a misproportioned body and idiotic thingies comeing out of where ever is a bit funny since you can't compare it to the real thing. How will you know that a dragon needs the wings to fly? I suggest you read the book The flight of Dragons by Peter Dickinson, if it's still available. It has some nice theories about dragons and how they were able to fly despite their size and weight and despite their small wings.

Message edited on: 03/16/2005 05:29

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

EnchangedAngel, ask for a refund. For the same price, you can get the new dragon, which includes the old one. DAZ has a 30-day, no questions asked, money-back guarantee. It's easy. Just use their online support form, and they'll credit your account. You can then use the credit to buy the new dragon.

I just did something similar, because I bought the gargoyle, then decided I wanted to buy the fantasy creature bundle instead (which includes the gargoyle).

P5 materials, eh? Well, I guess I'm sold, then. I can't resist P5 materials. :-)

Man, am I gonna be broke this month. And next month is tax month, so it ain't gonna be any better...

Puntomaus, Thank you.

peeectures of the Eastern Dragon please :)

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

well lets put this into perspective shall we? first, this is not a "millenium dragon 2" - the use of the 2 implies this is a new mesh. it is not, so this is more like Mil Dragon 1.5. taking that into account, does that justify the cost? lets see. Morph Pack, new CR2, rejointed figure. nope, this does not justify the massive cost. Morph Packs tend to run a lot cheaper. new CR2/Joints? shrug why so much? Mil Dragon 1 included. well, thats an incentive.. only been out a coupla years now... on sale several times already... you can get it cheaper on the PC club. nice if your a member, but (based on myself) not cost effective if you don't actually need anything in the PC club (I'm not someone that buys everything in sight becuase it looks pretty, stores it on a CD and never uses it - I buy as I need.. and lately daz ain't had anything I need.. well, infact, they ain't had anything I need in over 2 years) call me anti daz if you want, brand me with it, yell it at me in the streets and spit on me. I don't really care, since it's not important to the grand scheme of things. but I do see a bad deal when I see one and I wish that ppl would open their eye's and look without bias.

For those of you who purchased the upgrade... Could you tell if you need the full Mill dragon 1.0 or you just need the Mill Dragon LE that was free for a short time and was included in the Starter Bundle? Thanks

As someone who has been working with this new dragon for over a month now, I can assure you that it is appropriatly named Mill Dragon 2, because it is far more than an upgrade to the original dragon. The mesh is only part of the equation in figure creation, and the fact that it uses the original mesh as a base is a plus point not a negative one. This way all the extra textures and such which were purchased for the original dragon are still able to be used on this one as well. There would be even more screaming if people could not longer use their original textures..so this ensures your original textures are not out of date. But now you get the added benefit of a versitility that is a hundred times better than the original (which was no slouch either) Plus...you can use any of the new textures on the original dragon and the LE version as well, if you dont want the new features. So its a bit silly to play a game of wether it should be called version 1.5 or version 2. It is all just words, but it is definatly a drastically improved model and well worth it to any dragon enthusiast. (Updates usually dont work for LE versions..but you may want to confirm this with DAZ)

"The mesh is only part of the equation in figure creation" incorrect. as a merchant and creator myself, without a mesh you have no figure. the CR2/JP information is what brings the figure to life in poser, but it is not the main part of figure creation. no mesh, no figure. it is that simple. and sorry, again this is not a new figure. it is new rigging, but it is rigging applied to an old mesh. I stand by my comments that this is 1.5 not 2. I also stand by my assesment that it is grossly overpriced for what it is.

eh...we are all entitled to our own opinions. There are far more positive points to working with the same base mesh than there are to creating a new one. If the mesh was lacking in some way, then sure a new mesh could be generated. But to make a new one when it is not needed and have people complain that their original textures and addons no longer work is not only silly, but makes poor business sense. The way this one was handled was the logical way to have the figure grow. Other than that...a name is just a name and not worth the breath arguing over LOL

I never really realized that it's actually just more of an upgrade, I agree in that case it's overpriced for sure. Good thing is I don't have to buy, we do have a choice, I'll stick to the Mil Dragon LE suits me fine.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Staby - I installed the LE version to my test runtime and I could install the upgrade without problems. The LE version has the original object that's why the upgrade works with it.

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

hrm...notice it comes with some p5 only textures...:)

Tirjasdyn
http://michellejnorton.com

Attached Link: Dragons from Spawn.com

"STILL has idiotic finger-rib coming off the broken elbow in the wings. STILL has misproportioned body parts. I don't care if they add a hundred more spines and a thousand more teeth... if the underlying body isn't built logically, the beast will never get off the ground." Echoing Maus.. May i also add that more and more dragons aren't being "built" logically. Take a look at a new series of Dragons from McFarlane. These are gorgeous critters btw. http://www.spawn.com/toys/series.aspx?series=268 (clicly link up above) Look at the Fire Clan Dragon (my brother has the figures so I have looked at these upclose) This dragon is far from Logical. how would you expect him to fly with those wings??? Or the water clan Dragon? His wings would never get him off the ground. Dragons are fantasy If you were creating for realistic then you wouldn't be including a dragon in it. Dragons can be anything and have been.

Holy crap! You mean you can use the upgrade if you have only the LE version???? Now that's what I call a deal!

I sent an e-mail to Daz explaining how I had just bought the first Mil Dragon not knowing about the new release and they have issued me with a credit so I have bought the Mil Dragon 2.0. I'm downloading it now........ BTW Todd McFarlane's Dragons are awesome :-) I think I'll be getting them. My hubby is a keen Mcfarlane Toy collector - he has all of the Spawn figures ;-)

I have several feet worth of dragon books (including that Dickinson :ptui!:), and several more feet of books which have dragons in them. I've been a paid professional fantasy artist since 1969!!! I've bought lots of dragons as 3d models as well as art prints (more than I can show on my walls, which used to be covered with dragons). I've animated them for games. I know something about the eastern dragons as well as the great dragons of western literature.

This is an abomination, although not as bad as others that I've seen. Dr. Frankenstein could do better (at least he chose the best examples of each body part).

Any living creature must have certain body proportions in order to eat, breathe, move, and mate. Flying is extra... and has its own biological rules.

Any evolved creature will show certain body structures because of the way cells divide and take on their purpose. If it grew from an egg, it will exhibit characteristics in common with other creatures which have grown from eggs.

Unless, of course, you don't accept the theory of evolution (some religions put faith over science).

Even a fantasy creature must follow the rules of this real world. Or are you going to say that gravity is a matter of fantasy, too? Sunlight? Air?

This is not only an awful-looking model, it is an overpriced one for just new morphs and rigging.

Not impressed! Not gullible, either.

Carolly of Dragonkeep

Message edited on: 03/16/2005 18:07

Yeah, but if you accept the theory of evolution, no way can a dragon have four limbs plus wings. The critters that crawled forth from the water had four limbs and five fingers on each limb, and all us vertebrates have followed that basic plan ever since. Some animals have fewer than five digits, like horses, but you see their ancestry in the fossil record, in utero, and sometimes in birth defects. Flying vertebrates - bats, birds, pterodactyls - gave up their forelimbs - arms and hands - in exchange for wings. If you want a dragon that looks like it evolved, it should look more like a dinosaur. Either wingless, or a pterodactyl-like critter - a biped, with forelimbs converted into wings.

My earlier comments have not related to the quality of the new dragon. If people enjoy using the new model then that's fair enough. I'm not changing my mind about this being a recycled model, posted in the wrong forum. So, to the dazettes, keep up with the snide comments because I'm here to stay. Can the same be said for a company that recycles aging products?

Well they don't have anything left to recylce....guess it's Mil 4 next haha.

I can't even get it to open after the 1st try. Poser keeps saying I'm out of memory. 1 gig ram, 25 gig free HD space. Poser 4.

Are you sure you have the entire thing installed? There are three parts in the upgrade; might be more in the full version. I didn't have any trouble opening it in Poser 5.

Talos, Go into your Geometries section and find the dragon geometries Could be under DazAnimals (not sure i haven't installed it yet) Delete the RSR's and try loading the dragon again

Talos: Poser 4's out of memory message isn't always caused by not having enough memory - I find it's also generated by not being able to locate a geometry file. As said above - check the installation!

"Even a fantasy creature must follow the rules of this real world.' Who says? I musta missed that course of Fantasy 101. Carolly while I understand your points, you are also wrong. Fantasy is the creation of things that cannot be. Were not, can not, impossiblities brought out of the minds of creative men and women. You can have fantasy based on real world principals. But not all fantasy has to follow those rules. Fantasy is what you want it to be. If you want it based in real world principals then that's your choice but don't expect others to subscribe to your way of thinking about it. I love the possible dragons. The "Real world" principals you mention but i love the impossible as well. That's fantasy. But no fantasy creatures do not have to follow the rules of the real world because.. they aren't real at all.

Yep, If it's a loading problem I check the geometries file first. If it happens trying to render, get rid of the bump maps. I think the upgrade is quite cheep after the PC savings. Plus the extra new character. Not everyone is going to like it. I don't see any difference in this than buying another V3 magnet pack. Price is about the same.

I had a lot of hassle with Poser 4 with more than about 512MB or 768MB - I never could get it stable at 1GB IIRC :( REALISTIC dragons would very much resemble dinosaurs, as dug-up dinosaur bones are actually the source inspiration (or a major source) for many of the dragon myths. So as has been said previosuly, a "realisic" dragon would have to forgo wings or forelimbs in favour of the other. There are actually fossil records of creatures with all manner of digits - more than 10 per limb IIRC and down as low as two. However, five seems to have been a remarkably successful number for fingers on the whole - and nature tends to go along with the rule "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Some critters have even had a "finger" emanate from the elbow, seemingly in order to aid flight! :D Cheers, Cliff

" "Even a fantasy creature must follow the rules of this real world.' Who says? I musta missed that course of Fantasy 101. Carolly while I understand your points, you are also wrong." and I suggest you hire out a copy of Dragonheart. Draco was built along rules laid down by nature, bones, muscles etc. go watch then compare to the mil dragon's.

There are actually fossil records of creatures with all manner of digits - more than 10 per limb IIRC and down as low as two. However, five seems to have been a remarkably successful number for fingers on the whole - and nature tends to go along with the rule "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Not quite. It is true that early vertebrates had a great variety in the number of digits on each limb. But the fact that we all ended up with five may have been an accident, not a result of natural selection. The other lineages died out, and the one that was left just happened to have five digits on each limb.

I suspect the specific number of digits isn't a big deal for most critters. Horses lost four of theirs, and get by fine with just a single toe on each foot. Humans sometimes are born with six or seven fingers/toes, and it's usually not a problem (unless it's a result of some deeper developmental defect). Cats with six or seven toes are very popular with pet owners, and so there's been a sort of selective breeding for polydactylism in house cats. And in Stephen J. Gould's famous example, the panda has five fingers and a thumb. The thumb is actually a modified wrist bone, because the five fingers were too evolved toward running to become opposable.

Because of this variation, I suspect that five digits per limb is an ancient trait, inherited from a primitive common ancestor, rather than a body plan that was particularly advantageous.

I'm failing to see any extra or contradictory info there? Cliff

Basically, the part of your message I disagree with is this: However, five seems to have been a remarkably successful number for fingers on the whole Five may not have been particularly successful. In fact, a lot of vertebrates have different numbers of digits. It's just that five was part of our ancestral blueprint, likely by chance.

I see an awful lot of successful creatures around with 5 fingers myself. Although success can be measured in many different ways. Beetles are incredible successful if you count success in terms of number of species, and I doubt they have 5 fingers. Where you mention that..

Quote - The other lineages died out, and the one that was left just happened to have five digits on each limb.

This to me contains basically the same information. There were creatures with different numbers of fingers. Some of them died out and some of them didn't. The 5-fingered line continued. Personally, from my own POV, I'd count that as successful compared to the lineages that died out ;) I think it's remarkable the degree to which the five-fingered clan thrived compared to its close relations. so I think, on the whole, that five-fingered beasts HAVE been remarkably successful. Cheers, Cliff

Although success can be measured in many different ways. Beetles are incredible successful if you count success in terms of number of species, and I doubt they have 5 fingers.

No, I'm talking about vertebrates only.

Quote - The other lineages died out, and the one that was left just happened to have five digits on each limb.

This to me contains basically the same information.*

Not to me.

There were creatures with different numbers of fingers. Some of them died out and some of them didn't. The 5-fingered line continued. Personally, from my own POV, I'd count that as successful compared to the lineages that died out ;)

But it's not the fingers that made the difference. This is shown by the number of vertbrates today that have a different number of digits, such as pandas and horses. Five is not naturally the best. It's just a leftover, like the human appendix and tailbone.

Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine. People tend to interpret evolution as "whatever is, is best." In fact, it's the opposite. Whatever is, may be just an accident.

We're actually arguing the anatomical realism of a dragon?

It's a pet peeve of mine to be misquoted or misinterpreted. I have not said that five is best. Nor that having five fingers has been THE trait that meant survival of even a single species (I don't believe I've even said it was A trait that ensured survival). It's remarkable that five fingers is so common. If five fingers was out and out the best then its commonality would be entirely unremarkable. Think on it. Cliff

I asked sales over at DAZ about whether the LE version qualifies for the upgrade. I just heard back from them, and no, the MilDragon LE does not qualify for upgrade pricing. I can forward the e-mail to anyone who wants to see it.

-Heidi

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

Cliff, I'll just have to assume we're having a "two nations separated by a common language" moment, because I just don't understand what you're trying to say, and I suspect you don't understand why I'm trying to say. Heidi - how weird. It works just fine.

Must be a glitch then. Take advantage while it lasts everybody! LOL. I'm sticking with the full version so I can have the original full MilDragon too.

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

Randym:- I'm trying to say "You obviously don't understand what I'm trying to say, because you're correcting something I haven't said". This kind of thing bugs me. Badly. I'm not great at being corrected when I've said/done something wrong, but when I haven't I dislike it immensely. Cliff

Guess I'll wait and see how it shakes down. They may change their minds, since a lot of us have already bought the upgrade version. If not, I guess I'll have to decide if I want to pay more for the full version, or return it and stick with the LE version. I might just pick up some of the new textures and stick with the old version.

Personally, I think they should allow LE owners to use the upgrade. I was pretty much underwhelmed by the quality of most of the stuff in the Starter Bundle. They haven't fixed it (so far as I know) - and Bryce 5.5 has yet to appear.

Here's the text from the e-mail I got from sales:

*Heidi,

Only the ownership of the full Millennium Dragon product will grant illegibility for the Millennium Dragon 2.0 Upgrade product. The Millennium Dragon LE version that is included in the 3D Starter Content and 3D Starter Bundle products does not qualify as an eligible product for the Millennium Dragon 2.0 Upgrade. Please let me know if you require any further assistance.

Thank you,
Steve Swenson
DAZ Productions
Sales & Customer Service
crm@daz3d.com
1-800-267-5170*

And yes, I'm sure he meant eligibility not illegibility. LOL.

-Heidi

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

Thanks for the translation. I'm not sure I could decipher "illegibility" on my own. ;-)

They may change their minds. They've been known to do that in past. I'm going to wait awhile and see what happens. And play with the dragon and see if it's something I really want. Looking back, I really haven't done many renders with dragons in them. I've got a lot of dragons I haven't even used. :-/

I suspect the problem with allowing the LE version to qualify for the update is that it was originally a free item. I got it when it was free, and again when I bought the starter bundle. The only animal I didn't already have was the LE cat. The rest were freebies at some past point. And yeah, I was somewhat underwhelmed, too. Especially with the backwards loading summerwood thing. pfft -Heidi

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

I think they'll probably allow people who already got the upgrade for the LE to keep it that way. I don't think they're going to demand more money from people who already bought it. When they acidentally gave me three extra PC bonus coupons, Steve K. told me to stop complaining and go use them before they quit working. LOL. I didn't, but laregly because, well, you saw the slection. I didn't want anything else. I had enough trouble finding 10 things I wanted. -Heidi

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

I suspect the problem with allowing the LE version to qualify for the update is that it was originally a free item.

That's probably it. Though anyone who's been a customer that long probably deserves some consideration, too. :-)

And yeah, I was somewhat underwhelmed, too. Especially with the backwards loading summerwood thing. pfft

That was ridiculous! Especially since it was being peddled as a pack for beginners. I imagine there were some mighty confused newbies with that item.

When they acidentally gave me three extra PC bonus coupons, Steve K. told me to stop complaining and go use them before they quit working. LOL. I didn't, but laregly because, well, you saw the slection. I didn't want anything else. I had enough trouble finding 10 things I wanted.

Yup, I know what you mean. A few nice items, but I can't imagine being able to use three coupons on them. Still, it's better than the previous offer, which punished their best customers. Some people had already bought or downloaded as freebies everything in the first bonus pack.

The point still remains... is this dragon worth the price? No. The number of hours put into it is just as irrelevant as 3000 hand-hammered studs or real antique brocades in a costume if the final effect falls short. (And I am sorry for the wasted time.) Whether some chickens have bone spurs on their heels is just as irrelevant as whether whales have teeth if the model "looks" like the wings would break off before leaving the ground or if it would stab itself when flapping them. It has to look logical and natural. Another question remains... WHY is DAZ continuing to turn out bad models at high prices? And why are they turning out retreads? Even on a limited budget, I'll buy good models. I'll buy even average models if it is something that I don't already have and can't get elsewhere and can fix without too much work. I won't buy bad models... at any price. The Milcat was marginal, and I got it only because of Lyne's wildcat morphs. I refused to buy the dog. I refused to buy the horse. I refused to buy the bigcat And I refuse to buy this abomination. That is a dismal track record for their modelers! (I paid a pretty penny for the original dragon, eagle, and sea serpent, but back then, they were state of the art.) What are they going to paper over next? The rat? Sure they could take the mesh and regroup it, improve the posability, add a new texture and a morph for fangs... and sell it to us again as a new model, with extra packages for different breeds. wowie. Or they could look at the wishlist and make something new. Something good. Something worth buying. My money is on the rat. Carolly

agreed..I've stated the same a couple of times, but not anywhere near as elogantly

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

I would pay for the rat, if they made it look good. I love rats. I kept them as pets for years. The DAZ rat has a nice shape. Looks more ratty than any other mesh I've seen. But it has no textures. And you can't pose it. I would pay for decent textures (or dynamic hair!), and for joints/morphs that let you pose it in natural rodenty positions. As it is...it looks like a chocolate rat. And poses like one.

Rats are such good pets, aren't they? I love me some rats. :-) Smart little things! Haven't had any since high school, though. My daughter is terrified of rodents. :-( Even fluffy little hamsters! Go figure! It might be a good idea for people who want to tell someone that they think the new dragon sucks air through a straw, to actually tell DAZ this. Shrieking about in the Rendo forums is just venting, and isn't going to change anything. (And please don't start on me with the DAZ Groupie thing. I'm not a groupie, and I'm not in the mood for it today, thanks. Appreciate it. And the summerwood thing should've come with a sucking straw. LOL!) -Heidi

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

Yes, rats are very intelligent and affectionate creatures. You can even housetrain them.

How can your daughter not like rodents? Even squirrels?

It was the opposite with me. I always wanted a rat, and my mom wouldn't let me have one. She didn't like their naked, snake-like tails. I suggested we get a gerbil (furry tail) or guinea pig (hardly any tail), but she didn't go for it. So of course, the first thing I did when I moved out was get a couple of pet rats. :-)

The new dragon is very similar to the old one, near as I can tell. But I think it will be worth it for many people. Not everyone has the old dragon, and this one costs the same. The new Asian dragon might be worth the price for some artists as well. I have to say, I quite like it. It looks good. (And will look even better when Lyrra gets around to making real Asian textures for it, no doubt.) I just don't know how often I would use it. What is it, eight more years until the Year of the Dragon? ;-)

She liked squirrels until one got in the house a couple of years ago (through an unused chimney). Admittedly, even the cats were a bit afraid of it. I know it's mean, but find it amusing to see a teenager running from a teeny little hamster. :-P

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam