I downloaded some DEMS from http://bard.wr.usgs.gov/htmldir/dems.html And they really work (finally! Most DEMS come in so flat that they're unusable) But it finally gave me the push in the right direction to a good preset terrain render. Once the model is loaded, size the sucker up really big, I mean really big. Then apply the texture to it. It now actually looks like a good detailed surface instead of looking like a lo-res terrain was strecthed over it. So size matters. This way instead of trying to increase the procedural map up with the slider or numericaly with sometime bizzare effects, it seems to map nicely on something that large. It might just be me, but until now i never was pleased with my terrains unless they were far away. You have to scale up everything else, but worth it for a pleasing render. James