I'm curious why folks purchase figures, clothing, etc from companies rather than doing their own face and body changes themselves eg Victoria 2,3 etc downloads or variations thereof. I think it would be more fun to make face, body and body texture changes one self. I know that Poser 5 can do it and it has the ability to change Poser 4 figures as well. Okay, the figures may not be as beautiful as those purchased, but they are yours-you did it and you can give yourself credit for it. Clothing: All conforming clothes can be re textured, re colored, changed--eg dress made into boots, nylons, shields, bracelets, headgear, spears, you name it. Okay you have to do all that stuff in PSP, PP, PS, but it's fun to do. Again, you can then give credit to You and your twin Mine. One exception, folks that do animation-the clothing thing. Plutom

Why buy Victoria and her morph packs at all? Why not make your own figures and morphs? Edited for typos.

Message edited on: 03/30/2005 10:11

The answer to that question is, the reasons vary. For some, they might be working on a time crunch. They might not have the time to create something themselves, so they purchase something that will work for what they need. For others, time is money ... it will be more cost effective to buy something than create it themselves. Others might not want to learn how to create their own content. Instead, they just like to create the art and get to the end result. With such a wide range of people, it's a great thing that there is so much content, reasonably priced, to choose from.

It's quite difficult to learn modeling, and not everyone has the time to learn it or to make all their own models - it can take weeks to get one just the way you want it. Also, in the 3d art world there are actually 2 art forms involved: Modelling, and setting up and rendering a scene (there'a also a third one, postwork, but that's a whole nother argument). Some people excel at both, some are good at one but not the other. My modelling skills are mediocre at best. Sometimes when I just want to get into a render, I prefer to buy a pre-made model to use. I do make some of my own items, but sometimes there is a pre-made model that is exactly what I wanted, and is either free or for sale at a low price and rather than make one myself, it's faster to buy that one. Also a lot of people do 3d art for money and when you're working on a deadline you don't always have time to make all your own models. Every professional )and serious hobbyist, for that matter) that I know has accumulated a collection of pre-built models, characters, etc for just that reason

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

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Why buy poser and PsP? Why not just make your own software> Why buy a computer, why not make one out of recycled junk from your basement? Why pay for electricity? Why not just build your own billion kilowatt (wouldtha be a mega terr ?) In your backyard? I know the reason I buy the V3 and M3 figures is because I can't make meshes anywhere near as good myself........ Maybe someday.......... But not today :P

I, for one, do not think it's "fun" to re-texture clothing and figures myself. I'm no good at it. Especially human figures, which are a right pain to get right. I sometimes enjoy modelling (though never anything as complex as a human figure), but texturing is not my thing. I'll do it if I have to, but I'd prefer to pay someone else to do it, so long as I can afford to do so. My own texturing never comes out looking like I want, and is nothing anyone would want to give themselves credit for.

And I'd love to see someone re-texture a dress into boots. There are limits to what can be done with texturing.

I'm a texturer and character maker but I still buy a lot of content. I buy clothes because it's impossible to get some of the styles and clothing types simply by modifying existing stuff. I buy props because there's no way I could make the guitars, cars, weapons, scenery, hair, etc that I buy. Likewise with human figures - there's a limit to the morphing ability of any model. I use Poser to make pictures, not to make objects. Same as I buy guitars to play. In the 30-odd years I've been playing I have yet to build a guitar.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

It's not fun for me either. I use what other creative people offer to me to use....maybe they use that money to buy something that is just as nice for themselves as what they provided to me. I don't mind being part of the great marketing cycle. I didn't build my own house. I didn't design my own car. I have no intention of doing things from scratch that someone else does better. If you enjoy doing it all, good on you. But it's not bad on me for spending my time elsewhere.

I just want to make cool sci-fi and fantasy pictures that 'mesh' with the stories floating around in my brain box. By using pre-made models, textures to do that I save tons of the most valuable resource known to human kind, TIME. Here is an example of what I mean. For a scifi image I needed a little one man space fighter. In wings it takes me about 4 hours to model a space ship, then I need another 2 hours or longer to get a decent texture. Instead I use Davo's FVCS construction kit and construct a space fighter in about a half hour. In a world where time is money I'll go 30 minutes over 6 hours any day. Especially since this is a fun hobby for me. Oh sure, I'll do some re-texturing and modifying on a model as needed to fit my vision but for the most part I can find something out there in poserland that will plug right into my ideas, which really is the magic of Poser.

Different strokes ... ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

I buy stuff mainly for 2 reasons: 1 I can't make them myself. 2 I want to get straight in there and CREATE!!! Some wags may say I can't "create" either but hey "I like what I do" and that's what counts!!! thefixer poser coordinator.

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

The image is my objective. The models are my tools. occationaly I make my own tools. I don't feel the need to make them all.

My Homepage - Free stuff and Galleries

There are as many reasons to buy this stuff as there are people buying them. I have a question though: What possible interest might it be to you to know why other people prefer to buy stuff instead of creating it themselves?

France, Proud Owner of

KCTC Freebies  

I agree with Plutom. All the nuts and bolts 3D stuff, modeling, making morphs in a modeling program etc. is where the real fun is in 3D for me. I wish more people who use Poser would try it, but there's incredible resistance to using even the in-Poser tools like the setup room and the face room. I know. I've tried to talk good friends who are well-regarded Poser artists into broadening their horizons, but they won't budge. I don't get it.

fls13, your message makes me even more curious to know... What is it to you? Why would you want to change the way others see things? Why would you want to prevent people from buying 3d stuff if they want to? Why is it that important to you that well-regarded Poser artists prefer to buy art helpers instead of creating it themselves? And mostly: Why are you so sure that by creating their stuff themselves, those artists would be "broadening their horizons"? That is what I don't get: why do some people think their way of thinking is the only right way of thinking?

France, Proud Owner of

KCTC Freebies  

Yeah, ......... it might be the "left" way of thinking. No ? ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Who knows? ;o)

France, Proud Owner of

KCTC Freebies  

Only the Shadow knows! ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Hum... Not sure about that Doc! If it is the Shadow in the saying "Me, myself, and my Shadow", I think the Shadow's POV might be biased. ;o)

France, Proud Owner of

KCTC Freebies  

No, I meant the old radio personality. Mwuahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ........... ha ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

... ha

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

ha

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

ha

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

ha

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

.

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

It's like saying; "Why do people order Pizza or eat at restaurants when every home has a stove?" or "Why do people buy vegetables at the market when it's so easy to grow your own?" Different priorities. Different talents. Different lives. Just another facet of the magical diversity of human experience and expression. If everyone had to re-invent the wheel every time they needed to go to the store, it would slow things down considerably. The streets would be more interesting, but a lot of people couldn't get out of the driveway. Everyone is different, thinks differently. For instance I have difficulty understanding why everyone doesn't realize such a simple thing without asking about it, but that's probably just me. Just my 2 cents worth, opposing views encouraged, expected, and met with blank incomprehension . . .

Some see things as they are and ask 'why'; I prefer to see things as they never were, and ask 'why not'?
-somebody famous..;)
It depends on your motivation. I have no way to buy stuff on the web, so I either depend on the kindness of strangers (freebies), or make my own. Some folks understand uvmapping (I'm one step closer; now I know I have to texture the template, but how it goes in and out of a paint program is beyond me..;) to texture things. Believe me, if you have to reduce a complicated mesh (character/prop, whatever) to a 2-dimensional piccy, and then paint in each little flinkin' polygon..you'll be happy someone else took the time in the first place.
Sometimes you need one thing to do another; textures for props are an example (if I read the post right, make boots out of a dress..hey, if you can do that, you should charge for it..;). It's not as easy as it looks.
Some folks do it for beer money, or a little extra folding money (you'll never get rich..;)
if you can do the stuff yourself, try it out in freebies; if you're good enough, you could sell the things yourself..

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

In case anyone wonders what the Shadow looked like, here he is. (Morphed from M3).

My python page
My ShareCG freebies

Oh! THAT Shadow!!! Thanks ockham, now I remember him! I didn't remember before because I was SO young at that time. France

France, Proud Owner of

KCTC Freebies  

Different priorities. Different talents. Different lives. That's it (IMHO)! For me the items that I buy or download for free are representing the tools, just like brushes, canvas and colors. Yes, in fact it's a fascinating idea to grab a squirell, comb out some of his tail hairs, get stick, wire, glue and so on and build my own,no, my perfect brush. But my day has 24 hours, every 2 days I need some sleep ;o). And I have to live from what I create. So time is money - and I even want to make art for my own pleasure, so I need some extra-time. And I think, I have much more talent and experience in creating images than in modeling. And as I see here and there, some merchants have more talent for modeling, texturing etc. then for rendering promo-images. Don't get me wrong, please, that's okay for me. In this case I get even more then shown on the promo-image. Yes, I would like to do my own things, sometimes I'm in need for some sepcial little things and can't buy them. I tried to do this and that on my own but ended up with some mess or compromise and a clock that shows me: 6 hours until I should be finished with work, the customer is waiting! What to do? Paint the missing things! So: If I could make a wish for a buyable item - it would be time. And then I would like to learn modelling too (texturing is not that problem for me). But life is no wishing-well and so some people have to make decisions for one thing or another.

I'm not always right, but my mistakes are more interesting!

And I am not strange, I am Limited Edition!

Are you ready for Antonia? Get her textures here:



The Home Of The Living Dolls

The question that perplexes me is: why are certain people so worried about why other people choose to buy pre-made models/characters/etc........?

I don't worry over why some others might choose not to do this.

Frankly: it's their business. On top of which -- I couldn't care less about their internal motivations for doing what they do.

Besides -- what am I going to do about it? Convince them of the error of their ways? Teach them how to behave properly -- according to a set of strictures that I have chosen for them?

If people want to buy lots of stuff for Poser, then that's their affair.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Plutom,

You may find that the characters you originate by morphing faces and working on the 'bit level' with textures are MORE beautiful than those out of the box or marketplace.

Enjoy.

::::: Opera :::::

Message edited on: 03/30/2005 13:04

"if you have to reduce a complicated mesh (character/prop, whatever) to a 2-dimensional piccy, and then paint in each little flinkin' polygon..you'll be happy someone else took the time in the first place." Pakled, I think you're doing it the hard way. Just use an image you can find in a google search or any number of free tilable textures available on the web.

@ ockham - Hey, did I give you permission to post a picture of me? signed, The Shadow

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

I'd sue if I were you, Doc.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I would, but Sue won't talk to me any more ........... or ... any less, either.

;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Well, in the beginning I bought things I could learn from. Sometimes it was a question of having a practical example of a texture, sometimes it was geometry... Then there was also a laziness. When an item was sold for a really low price, and it would take me half a day or longer to create it, then, knowing my days are filled to the brim (one third sleep, one third daydreaming, one third planning for things that never come), why not buy it? A third reason was that sometimes an item or character was so intriguing that I really wanted it. Like a book. Or a CD. Or some new oil colour. Some characters are really unvickied (I invented a verb!) by their creators, and I just love that. A fourth reason was, and this applies to the Daz characters, that I am not afraid of modelling a character, but that the rigging and morphing that come afterwards are like climbing mount Everest when you, happy you, have made it to the base-camp. This said, I feel saturated now. Besides, it's me girlfriend who occupies herself of "the digital department" right now. She'll outperform me before the end of the year. And I love that.

I have tried prudent planning long enough. From now I'll be mad. (Rumi)

I buy them because like it was stated before, I really don't have the time to learn how to make my own clothing and when I have tried just get something I want takes way too long and looks awfully crappy. What I do instead is buy the clothing sets I like (my son buys sets as well...we share the same PC) and I try to use them in different ways. Some products are just perfect the way they are (check out my last two renders) but with others I mix and match and do different things with the textures (My Red Brigrade series was a good example of that)

it's real simple those that can afford it buy those that can't make do......... netta

www.oodlesdoodles.com

I think some folks here misunderstood my question. Unfortunately when one writes a question, it is not the same as asking it in person. My question was not intended to be sarcastic in any way. I'm a newbie to Poser anything and simply wanted to know. Most of you answered my question in the spirit in which was asked and I thank you. It's like asking why buy Poser 6? Plutom

"Unfortunately when one writes a question, it is not the same as asking it in person." Too true - (I've) run afoul of that often enough. I run SpellCheck and GrammarCheck regularly, haven't found a TongueInCheekCheck or SoberInquiryCheck add in for IE6 yet . . . LOL

Most of us are probably self taught and picking up scraps of knowledge here and there- so it's time, money, and training constraints. Most of us would probably love to do all of our own stuff, but aren't quite at that level yet, or don't have the means. Personally, when I buy character packs, I do it for the texture maps, and then apply them to a figure I spent time setting up. I rarely ever use the actual character. As for clothes, you can buy them and then create your own textures. I'll also buy things so I can study other techniques- which brings up another point. You get better variety when you decide to use different models, and not just your own, because you can combine your own ideas with someone elses. It broadens the mind and pushes you to be more creative, because you are exposed to more. Why do you think art students have to take classes like art history?

I think some folks here misunderstood my question. Unfortunately when one writes a question, it is not the same as asking it in person. My question was not intended to be sarcastic in any way. I'm a newbie to Poser anything and simply wanted to know. Most of you answered my question in the spirit in which was asked and I thank you. It's like asking why buy Poser 6? Plutom That's not a problem. Since you are new here, I'll mention the fact that this issue has been put forward before -- by individuals that clearly had some sort of an axe to grind. Whatever that axe might have been in regards to. Thus, the reaction from many.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Whatever that axe might have been in regards to. Usually, this sort of "axe" comes from "purists" who believe that others aren't being creative enough. And thus, those others should modify their behavior so that it comes into line with the Purist's personal ideal. Frankly, I think that if the truth were known.....the average "Purist" is simply someone that can't afford to be more than that.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

OK, to get a reality-based answer, download one of the free modelling programs like wings3d, anim8tor or the free versions of Truespace and Amapi, and try your hand at modelling. You might discover that you have a talent for it, or you might develop a greater appreciation for purchased items...

Message edited on: 03/30/2005 15:37

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

Hablo español

Ich spreche Deutsch

Je parle français

Mi parolas Esperanton. Ĉu vi?

Quote - I'm curious why folks purchase figures, clothing, etc from companies rather than doing their own face and body changes themselves eg Victoria 2,3 etc downloads or variations thereof.

Because some of us can't be bothered, or are too stupid (me) and haven't figured out how to do that stuff yet. I made a post asking for help and information on how to make textures because I too think it would be more satisfying to use things that I made myself...at the very least it would give me something else to do other than press buttons.

So I'm working on it :) Another reason is time considerations. From what I can figure out, making nice textured items and figures takes a great deal of time, and looking at the maps, I can see that for myself. Some people want to create figures and use them in the time they have to play in poser, not spend that time in a graphic program trying to make a texture for a skirt. Bascially, bought poser items is like fast food. Quick and satisfying the need. Message edited on: 03/30/2005 15:48

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

"Basically, bought poser items is like fast food. Quick and satisfying the need."

:D Love that! I might mention though, that some of us can't get those free modeling program because we're on Mac computers...no insults, I love my Apple. But most of the freeware is crafted for other systems unfortunately :(

Message edited on: 03/30/2005 16:11

Okay, the figures may not be as beautiful as those purchased, but they are yours-you did it and you can give yourself credit for it. Surely credit is due for the finished article anyway, for the time, composition, postwork, artistic flair...surely these count as well. Was Van Gogh or Picasso any less fulfilled with their work because they didn't make the brushes, canvas, or paints themselves maybe they did. As far as I am aware photographers are not required to manafacture their own cameras as carpenters aren't asked why they don't make their own tools. Incidentally I do make my own textures if there is something I need for a picture that isn't on the market..not got to objects yet as I usually render my figures bald and naked as I like to paint a fair amount 2D. I don't consider the fact that I didn't program adobe photoshop 7 to lessen my achievement either. Surley where, how and why you got the tools is less important than the finshed product :)

back when i had bryce 2 and poser 1, i used to try my hardest to make crappy little booleaned critters....and they were bad. then, i found animator but wasn't too good with it. when i got poser 4, i found actual content for programs, free stuff, etc. but, i still loved to make my own stuff....it was what i was used to, and, my stuff could be one of a kind. even my first 3 posts here have ran ran with my own eye morphs and little untextured shirt, and michael1 with my own textures and a morphed p4 hair do. i like making my own stuff. i am in no hurry to make pictures, but, i feel like a goddess when i make "stuff". Frankly, I think that if the truth were known.....the average "Purist" is simply someone that can't afford to be more than that. ....i think this statement is a bit off base. i have spent a good deal of money on modelling apps...and though it may not be as much as others have spent in the market for various and sundry items, you will find that many others would rather buy the app, and invest the time to learn it than invest over and over and over in what the "latest" market trends are. i'm not trendy....likely never will be....but, i am unique. i find modelling and texturing to be fun. i like doing both of those things a whole lot better than i like posing, and lighting in poser. it takes me as long to drag vicki around in a scene than it takes me to make a little lightwave critter. maybe, we all just have different talents, strengths and weaknesses.

maybe, we all just have different talents, strengths and weaknesses.

My problem with purists isn't that they choose (for themselves) to be "pure". Being a firm believer in the principle of personal liberty, that's fine with me.

The difficulty comes in whenever the purist attempts to force others to follow their own particular set of legalisms concerning the "proper" way to do 3D. And the "proper" way to be creative.

If someone wants to build all of their own models, and draw up all of their own textures -- then that's wonderful.

But don't insist that anyone who chooses not to work that way is somehow violating a CODE.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

or possibly not as good of an artist, like the results you achieve are nothing to do with you... I get that a lot from friends and family :(, used to upset me a bit... Not anymore when I actually sat one of them down in front of one of these programs and said go on then...lets see how easy it is...they ecame frustrated and angry. "If someone wants to build all of their own models, and draw up all of their own textures -- then that's wonderful." lets remember though a true purist would expect you to code the programs before hand too, after all otherwise we have come full circle surely. Or is it a vicious circle LOL. After all a large amount of credit must go to the actual applications themselves. :) If you can achieve fabulous results, they are still valid regardless of the techniques, tools, programs, paper, pencil, camera used to achieve them :)

Pakled, I think you're doing it the hard way. Just use an image you can find in a google search or any number of free tilable textures available on the web.

He may be doing it the hard way, but he's also doing it the LEGAL way. You'll probably get away with swiping textures off the Web if you're only making images for fun. But if you have any hope of going pro - selling your art - do not get in the habit of taking textures off other people's Web sites. Even if they are offered as free tilable textures, be careful. A lot of these sites have swiped the textures from some other site - even off software CDs - and are generously giving away something that is not theirs to give.

Plutom, I think after you've used Poser awhile, you'll understand why people buy stuff. I think you overestimate what can be done with texturing and such, and eventually, you will find it quite limiting. Texturing can turn a dress into a t-shirt or a skirt. It cannot turn a dress into a pair of boots.

or possibly not as good of an artist, like the results you achieve are nothing to do with you...

One often sees this same sort of thing in threads about the EVILS of postworking.

Postworking -- it's horrible. Absolutely horrible.

Any true artist would do everything in one program -- and in one program only.

Otherwise, you're not pure. And you should be ostracized by all of your peers for perpetrating such impure practices.

---

I think that Purists tend to be either very old or very young. Although they can be found at every stage of life.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

One often sees this same sort of thing in threads about the EVILS of postworking. Postworking -- it's horrible. Absolutely horrible. Any true artist would do everything in one program -- and in one program only. Otherwise, you're not pure. And you should be ostracized by all of your peers for perpetrating such impure practices. LOL, sorry I LOVE postworking, sure why would I want to wait godknows how many hours waiting for a complicated scene to render...to realise that it looks a little flat and needs some Va Va Voom... I'd much rather spend 40 minutes for an average render and turn it into something that sprakles with my trusty tablet and adobe :). XENOPHONZ I gather you have had trouble at the hands of such purists too. If so let me extend my warm and deepest sympathies. Truth be told I wonder often why take such an interest in us humble supposed bad artists in the first place.

>at the very least it would give me something else to do other than press buttons. I think we're not constrained to do so, in fact I can leave nothing as-is ;o) But if I have the possibilitie to get a good morph/texture for an affordable price I'll take it - and alter it. I think everybody has a talent for some things. I nearly never use those lights that come with some packs, I don't like most of the expressions. So I make lights on my own but aplly the expression and play around with it. If someone else makes something it is never exactly the thing that I have in mind but You get better variety when you decide to use different models, and not just your own, because you can combine your own ideas with someone elses. That's the point! I've made different morphs on my own and they are my favorites, but they are basing on my own taste. They fit my own needs perfectly but sometimes not the need of a customer who wants an image for commercial purpose. I love mixing and matching - and most of all I love using a character absolutely different to what the developer had obviously in mind while creating it ;o) It's a bit like cooking: I don't raise my own vegatables or spices, I buy them. But I'm cooking my own soup ;o) violating a CODE... I've heard of that, I've heard of "postwork is evil". Well, I think every kind of missionary behaviour is evil. It restricts development and fresh ideas. It is of interest if someone painted anything except Vicky or made all "pure poser", if he made things shown in the image by himself or bought everything. It is of interest because it shows the way an image is made and the abilities of a program. It's of interest because you can ask: How did you do that? It's not of interest for telling if something is art or not. Men had tried that before - and failed every time ;o)

I'm not always right, but my mistakes are more interesting!

And I am not strange, I am Limited Edition!

Are you ready for Antonia? Get her textures here:



The Home Of The Living Dolls

XENOPHONZ I gather you have had trouble at the hands of such purists too.

Well....not really. At least not in the area of Art. On the Official Artistic Achievement Scale.....I've reached the coveted level of Muttering Hanger Around the Hole (MHAH).

But I do have strong attitudes in regards to individual choices.....and individual responsibilities for those choices.

When it comes to Art, it's about liberty. Not about what someone else thinks that I should be doing.

((This principle extends to many other areas of life, too.))

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

BTW -- lest anyone should get the wrong idea -- I am a right-winger. With libertarian leanings.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

He may be doing it the hard way, but he's also doing it the LEGAL way. You'll probably get away with swiping textures off the Web if you're only making images for fun. But if you have any hope of going pro - selling your art - do not get in the habit of taking textures off other people's Web sites. You are lying and I resent the claim that finding textures on the internet is "swiping." You're calling me a thief and I won't tolerate it.

Plutom, I think if you re-read the various replies, you will see that those addressed to the "sarcastic" meaning of your post were in fact NOT addressed to YOUR post but to fls13's post. In your post, the way you ask your question and the comments you make about what we can make out of a texture... anyone could see you are a newbie. It is not so with the other message though. Sorry about this happening to you since you are new and couldn't know. Don't think bad of this community because of that: there is good and there is bad in all communities. So to reply seriously to YOUR question: it depends mostly on 2 things: 1) whether your fun is to render images or creating things to render images or to help other render images and 2) whether or not you can afford to buy all that stuff. I buy lots of stuff because I like to have lots of choice. What I like most in Poser is to try things on models like I used to do when a kid with paper dolls ;o) AND I like to create textures and little props and faces for characters to give away to those who might use them to create beautiful renders. France

France, Proud Owner of

KCTC Freebies  

fls13, the simple fact is that you are not within your rights to take just anything that's posted on the internet. It's OK to do so only if the person offering it is either the copyright owner (yes, most of it is covered by copyright), or if they are licensed by the owner to give it away.
Most of the textues I have were either made by me or are from purchased sets, or legitimate free downloads.

Message edited on: 03/30/2005 17:52

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

Hablo español

Ich spreche Deutsch

Je parle français

Mi parolas Esperanton. Ĉu vi?

You are lying and I resent the claim that finding textures on the internet is "swiping." You're calling me a thief and I won't tolerate it. He's not actually lying, if the texture is able to be used for commercial and personal use, then thats fine you're not breaking the rules. But for this to work you have to trust the person you're actually taking the texture from, if they have appropriated it from less than fair means and you use it and are found out...then you become liable. Much like recieving stolen goods, you didn't steal it but the fact you are in possesion makes you liable. Then again the choice is yours, if you are doing everything correctly and above board then you don't have anything to worry about. If not then soon you'll probably end up on the stiff end of a law suit. Plutom to offer an apology of sorts, it was not my intention to jump down you're throat, to you this is an innocent, curious question. Unfortunatley digital art no matter how it is achieved I find these days is constantly asked to justify it'self. Can you say sore point LOL. We are only human and even the most placid dog will eventually growl if you keep batting it over the end of the nose with a rolled up newspaper :) Pink

Message #34: "Pakled, I think you're doing it the hard way. Just use an image you can find in a google search or any number of free tilable textures available on the web. " I think the reminder is that an image you find in a Google (or Yahoo or whatever search engine) is not necessarily available to be used as a texture. Some are copyrighted. Some are not. Most of us know that. Some do not. Many ignore the rights of others when it comes to copyright. It is one of those areas of high sensitivity. Expecially to those who have had their work stolen. Fortunately I've never been good enough to steal from but others, alas, are and have seen someone else take credit for their work, or have their work incorporated into someone else's packet and sold. In the long run, it is better to ask permission than to take without considering the consequences. Of course, no one here would do the latter.

Plutom, don't you love it when people fight in your thread? :) randym77 brings up a good point. Most of us have probably trolled the internet for stuff. But as stated above, you can't trust everyone, and there are a lot of people ripping things off. So it's not an insult, its a good warning! A lot of beginning artists don't know all the copyright laws and fair usage policies if you hang out here a lot, you pick it up.

What, exactly, am I lying about? Are you saying that it is okay to use any textures Google brings you?

Help me with my sucky reading comprehension skills. Just what did you mean by this:

Just use an image you can find in a google search or any number of free tilable textures available on the web.

Sure sounds like "swiping" to me. I'd welcome Cooler's input.

At the very least, that statement needs to be qualified, seeing as this is a newbie thread.

If that is directed at me thats a bit of a generalised and damming comment, especially as I did not in anyway accuse you of a copyright crime.
You claimed quite wrongly that martian_manhunter was lying, yes you could possibly accuse him of grabbing the wrong end of the stick and battering you over the head with it, but not of out and out lying.
To tell you the truth you were not exactly clear and concise in your post so no you didn't say that it was okay to take anything off the net, neither did you explain fully what you actually may have meant. This give people the right to jump to large conclusions from very short heights, we are human, I'm certainly not a mind reader. It also gives you the right to reply in a hostile and insulting manner, life is like that.
"If you want to debate that subject with me, I can assure you you are stepping out of your weight class. Ask cooler. :O) "
Another large assumption, and so quickly on the heels of your retoric regarding our wrong assumptions.
I do apologise if you wrongly thought the above post was an accusation, I was merely clearing up your own wrong assumption that martian_manhunter had lied to you.

Pink

Edit sorry replace martian_manhunter, with randym77 see even I get it worng sometimes, but in such an argument isn't it a bugger LOL

Message edited on: 03/30/2005 18:41

Message edited on: 03/30/2005 18:42

Get a digital camera, take your own pictures of whatever you need to for texturing purposes and be done with this pointless debate. If you don't have one, there are many legitimate sites offering free textures for all to use, and the copyright restrictions, generally "don't redistribute the textures as is, but you are free to use in your art work," are clearly spelled out. And yes, you can easily find these sites through Google.

Okay, that's fair enough. However, my warning stands. At least one of those sites offering "copyright free textures" turned out to have taken them from copyrighted software CDs.

ROFLMAO Ockham...yer showin' yer age now ...it's a perfect likeness...I love it ...grin

STORE:
http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=KymJ
GALLERY:
www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=KymJ

...there are many legitimate sites offering free textures for all to use,... That is true but it is also true that some of those supposedly "legitimate" sites are not that "legitimate" after all. And we've even seen cases of those "legitimate" sites selling texture resources for all to use where the textures you bought were not that "legitimate" either. IMO, if you can avoid this, play safe and use only texture resources you created yourself from scratch. fls13: I've read somewhere that even the pictures of textures you take with your camera might not be legal to use in texture creation for models... I do NOT know if this is correct or not, I just read this in a forum somewhere.

France, Proud Owner of

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Aside from the legal issues being discussed here... I would like to "swipe" a remark I read earlier in this thread. Concerning the original debate, this says it all "It's a bit like cooking: I don't raise my own vegatables or spices, I buy them. But I'm cooking my own soup." That's cool!

Francemi: Don't believe everything you read about copywright, even from copyright attorneys, as they are representing their clients. Trust your heart, and if you are wrong you can fix the problem. Would you feel robbed if the same were done to you?

Fls -- ignoring attourneys and going directly to copyright law, Francemi is right -- it is, period, safer to always use stuff you create yourself. And, sometimes, something you take a picture of is not safe to use. If you take a picture of a particular swatch of fabric containing a design which is under copyright. anmd use that picture, you are in violation of the copyrights of the owner of that cloth pattern. It doesn't matter if you agree with the laws or not -- indeed, if you do not, then work to change them -- but they are the laws, and it is in your best interest to follow them until they are changed. The only time you would be safe doing so is if you did it for your own personal use and images that you never shared. Otherwise, you open yourself up to a potential risk.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Thanks ynsaen, that's what I meant about what I had read before but I didn't know how to say it exactly. ;o)

France, Proud Owner of

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It's not about the tools, it's about the big "O". "OH! I could see what I had in my mind's eye!"

"If you take a picture of a particular swatch of fabric containing a design which is under copyright. anmd use that picture, you are in violation of the copyrights of the owner of that cloth pattern." I was wondering about that...but how do most people get real fabric textures then? Are there other ways to create realistic fabric? I can't think of any other way to achieve realism.

Economics...thats how I see it... I can make a chair...or a table, no big deal...I actually built myself a huge cd "book case" once...is the right word cd case?...I dont think so...its HUGE...what about making my own glassware? I even came close to make a samurai sword...the answer is...Im glad there are people doing all sorts of things for poser I can purchase for a very reasonable price "key words here merchants", so I dont have to spend ill precious time doing them. And then again these merchants good at doing their things feel compelled to do more things because people like me will enjoy their products and acquire them... Plus, there is the variety of every single merchants vision of something I might never even get close to, plus some of these peoples visions inspire me... Long live the poser merchants....

You can scan solid fabrics. You can make your own digital patterns. And you can scan patterns that that are old enough to be public domain.

But yeah, the fabric thing has been an issue of late. I've been buying digitally created tiles and laces, just to be safe.

Just a small tip for people who want to make sure there textures are okay. I have just found a huge source of permission free resources. Go to Amazon and look up clip-art. They do these nifty permission free clipart collections, many on dics in a range of all the styles under the sun. I have bought about 20 different ones and intend to make brush sets, materials, patterns, decorations and web sets from them. Just an idea :)

"They do these nifty permission free clipart collections, many on dics in a range of all the styles under the sun. I have bought about 20 different ones and intend to make brush sets, materials, patterns, decorations and web sets from them."

Just the word "clipart" makes me shudder, though. It's too bad about having to create your own patterns. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so the thought of having a computer randomly generate things is not my cup of tea...

Are there any really good pattern generators out there for Macs in the first place? I know Photoshop has one built in, but its not the greatest in my book.

LOL you'd be suprised, go look at Jaguarwomans items in the store, what that woman can do with black and white clip-art will just make you fall to your knees and weep :) Pink

Check out Spothmann's Antique Fabrics pack (in the MP). She owns a huge collection of antique fabrics, as well as sewing her own patterns (embroidery, beading, etc.). Her pack is all either patterns she's created herself, or scans of antique textiles from her collection.

I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so the thought of having a computer randomly generate things is not my cup of tea... You don't have to let the computer do it for you. You can do them manually: more work but the results are much better in most cases. ;o)

France, Proud Owner of

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