After being told I was as wrong as I could be for thinking that V3 was a far superior looking figure than Jessi, I'm very curious how people feel about the two figures. I personally think the Jessi figure is really ugly and inhuman looking, and therefore not terribly useful in my renders. I've also been able to create such a wide array of characters using V3, that I don't see Jessi's far less generic (and far less realistic looking) design being as versatile. I also don't have faith that CL will add enough to Jessi to make it as versatile or that 3rd party merchants will have the incentive to undertake such a massive task. But that's just my opinion, from a non-merchant, DAZ friendly, non-modeler, hobby artist perspective. I'd love to hear what other people have to say because liking the Jessi figure is so alien to my perspective, I want to see its good points from the eyes of others.

I haven'' had time working with Jessi yet. But "straight out of the box" I like her.

The shoulders are much better than V3's.
And my very first impression was that her body is so much like my own. Long skinny legs, long neck and and a 'tiny' look to her.
I've always felt too skinny and from another planet, so I guess she is ok. ;o)

V3 is fine too and I will work with both of them. Don't want to chose one or the other.

Jessi is attractive, but you're right, she's quite stylized. However, she's stylized in a way that men (at least in this culture) generally like: tiny waist, generous breasts, long legs with an exaggerated shape. Realism isn't everything.

What's doomed Jessi and James, IMO, is the Posette-style rigging. They just don't pose well. For that reason, I doubt I'll buy anything for them.

Just an observation, but... I recall everyone saying Vicki was butt-ugly too. Then people started making beautiful characters and renders with her, and she became very popular. Seems like history repeating itself. I think almost every model looks "inhuman" out of the box, before they're morphed, textured, and rendered. ;-) I like Jessi, and I think she can produce some very realistic and, in my opinion, beautiful renders. Her success will depend entirely on the support she gets. Ie., clothing, accessories, morphs, etc.

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I would much prefer V3 anyday, just my personal opinion!

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Hmmmm. The hi-res Jessi looks as smooth as V3. She actually contains more polygons. "What's doomed Jessi and James, IMO, is the Posette-style rigging." This I agree with. I don't like their rigging either. Hopefully this will be improved upon in the content service release that CL said is in the works too.

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ok for me Jessie and guys please WE KNOW ABOUT THE RIGGING. you don't need to trot it out every damn thread! this is what? the 10th ? 11th thread you've posted that comment?? we know already!!!

THE DEFAULT IS ONLY THE DEFAULT. VICKIE IS NOT THE EPITOME OF REALISM. THE CURRENT JESSI IS NOT EVEN THE DEFAULT Poser6Woman YET. The only sensible thing in this entire thread so far is the objective apprasial of the rigging. And yes, I am in a bad mood and felt like shouting. So shoot me. ::::: Opera :::::

ok. shoots Operaguy thats for mentioning the rigging again!

straight out of the box Jessi looks better to me but V3 has had time to get so many character packs that once you add those she's got the edge. Having said that, many seem to say V3's rigging is better but to be honest the way her chest and collars are set up sucks shit, it's absolutely awful and a major screw up by Daz. The dark rings it causes on the inner breast and the difficulty in getting the breasts looking right needs to be fixed as much as Jessi's Posette rigging. V2 was far superior than either V3 or Jessi in this area of the models.

You are welcome. Could you please shoot everyone who judges the models by their defaults instead of their actualization potential, please. Thank you :: og ::

Most important to me are FBMs to smoothen Jessie's cartoonic body.Then I'm hoping on experts like Arduino or 3D Dream...etc for creating better riggings for her.I think Jessie is the first Character with a real beauty default Face.I don't like default V3 Face-and Body shape.With some FBM's ...yes ,she could be all right.

Out of the box, I prefer Jessi. I think she looks very natural for a late teenager or young adult. I have a picture of my nieces (identical twins) at the side of a pool and their body looks just like Jessi's (I would post this picture but my nieces would kill me!). As I am not very good in Poser, I don't mind that Jessi has less possibilities than V3. I like V3 with a good character applied to her though. The only thing I don't like about Jessi is that she looks mad at the world but that's probably because her James is such a nice man that all 3D women are after him. ;o)

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On the basis of this render... for me, Jessi. But I agree with Francemi, she really does look cross about something!

Steve

At this point in their respective developments, my choice between Jessi and V3 is.... neither. IMO V2 is superior to both, but I'm always hopeful some new character will arrive, or some existing character will be improved enough to dethrone V2 in my 3D harem.

She's just an angry young woman who is probably a martial arts expert and a crack shot, running from her nemesis who relentlessly persues her. You would look angry too if you were in her situation. especially as the poor girl doesn't even have a decent wardrobe. Love esther

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v3 looks too stocky and massive for an everyday woman, and has horrible "inflated-balls-like" shoulders like all Millennium characters including males, and a too athletic neck. And the face bones are too masculine in the chin-jaw area, and hardly customizeable in that. Jessi looks more like an everyday woman but there are problems with her, there is something strange with her legs and hips, and knee and ankles area, perhaps too stylized, I don't know. Also I have the feeling she looks like a Posette refreshed. On the males side, I think James wins clearly over M3 (for my personal liking)

Personally I still prefer V2 becaus I HATE morph injection. whats strange is V3 Has an undersized "pinhead" and jessie has somewhat Big pointed "EggDome" but easily cover by Hair. really pretty face though. But her RIGGING makes her unusable IMHO ;-)

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Maxx, I don't think CL is going to fix the rigging. Except for the feet. They warned the merchants that the feet would likely change, but didn't say anything about the rest of her.

Changing the rigging would ruin all the clothing that has been made for her. I don't think they are going to do anything that major. And if they were, I'd expect them to give the merchants a heads-up.

Morever, her mesh appears to be specifically designed for her rigging. Compare her in wireframe mode to V3. A lot of the polys she has don't really contribute to smoothness. They are at her joints, to compensate for the P4 rigging.

And some of the "smoothing" polys just seem sort of pointless. Is it really necessary for the mesh at the back of her head to be so dense? How much morphing does the average user do there?

Another thing I dislike: no lip material zone.

V3 has noodle arms with ghastly shoulders and elbows. But even if you covered her in a burqa, it wouldn't hide the pin-head. No amount of textures (or rigging... shoot me too) is going to hide the fact that she has totally inhuman proportions. Even V2 has a pinhead, but I can scale that up 103-105% and get something workable... if anything V3 is worse in this regard. V3 also has crossed-eyes and just about every character pack out there uses the same eyes without fixing it and every artist and their cousin renders her with a vacant look because they've seen it so often they no longer are bothered by it. Jessi's proportions are overall much more like real people. That includes the hand and foot sizes! The tops of her feet look nice. She does have more curvature (ankles, knees) than most women. I wish her upper arms were a little longer. I also like the face... generic enough to be workable, but with a sense that there is something human and interesting inside. So, who is more realistic? Jessi. Who is more attractive out of the box? Jessi. Carolly

----Personally I still prefer V2 becaus I HATE morph injection. whats strange is V3 Has an undersized "pinhead"---- !!!100% aggreement!!!

V3's head is kind of small. I usually scale it up a little. Someone said V3 was over 6' tall if you run the "Poser units" calculations. She's a real Amazon, judging from her head to body ratio. Using Laura (with V3's morphs) instead of V3 fixes that problem. She also has much better shoulders and elbows.

Well I think Jessi has got some potential. I guess her success will depend on the 3rd party support for her - which appears at this stage to be pretty strong.

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I don't know a single real life woman that looks anything like Vicki. I mean KNOW one. I've seen these pictures in magazines and on TV of these supermodel chicks who starve themselves to look like Vicki. Jessi to me has a more real quality. I have never used V3 in a render. I use SP3 because there are very few women out there who are beautiful supermodels. Most women are plain or have unattractive features here and there. V3 is just too perfect. Kristta

Starve themselves to look like Vicky? But Jessi is skinnier. IMO, she looks a lot more like a "supermodel chick" than Vicky.

One thing someone pointed out in the DAZ thread Onimusha started with this same topic...using V3 and Jessi in the same scene together really doesn't work. They have different artistic styles, and using them together is a bit jarring.

Attached Link: http://www.juno.dti.ne.jp-~yamato-k-

Search for TentenP5 there.It's a V2 Head over a P5 Body.You have to create lots! of bodymorphs yourself to make her fit your ideas,but in the end it's worth it.It's free.Best of all TentenP5Ugryo's breasts react to gravity.She is my favorite Character now.I even think of uninstalling V3.

dead link and I want it.

I like Yamato's work. Some people are combining An-An's and EJ's morphs, and the results look really good. Better shoulders than EJ, more realistic than An-An.

Attached Link: http://www.juno.dti.ne.jp/~yamato-k/VPstep1.html

another try

Attached Link: http://www.juno.dti.ne.jp/~yamato-k/

There's a couple of typos in the link he posted. This one should work.

Something must be wrong with me. I finally caved in and bought V3 because it seem all the community and vendors had jumped over and I just don't see anything better about V3 than V2. V2 looks better, workflows better, and is less taxing on my system. P6 woman (I hate anthropomorphizing these mesh!) has a really nice face but a terrible toon body... oy! P5 woman had a great looking bodymesh although tring to deform it in anyway seemed to make it fall apart,and of courese the was that nasty default head I had to replace with the Face Room head! I have shelled out for the RDNA Jessi morph pack but have not had a chance to install it. The benifit of INJ/REM eludes me if the REMs only hide dials to removes them... one might as well just use the colapsable channel arangements and export morphs to a stripped down figure. I think that MorphManager type Poser native delta transfer function and would have been a far superior option! I have just been modeling face for Jessie on a full morph set and moving the resulting morph to an expression, phemone only figure. But then I model P4 woman by sculpting two different zillion chanel head only figures and export/import to the base P4 figure. With Face Room based sculpting what does it matter what the base figure head looks like? It is the Face Room head that matters, I am frustarted that there seem to be FEWER dials in Face Room it seems to me... scalling of features etc must be done with the putty tool which can be irratic and is dificult for a physically disabled person like my self to use... as far as I am concerned, the more that is dial/keyboard controled and least mouse controled the better. The mouse interface based nature of most 3D programs is what keeps me from using them effectivly... a real vertue of Poser is/was its dial based controls. I miss the square texture maps that made aspect easy to deal with but good golly P6 has the best texture scheem EVER! And I for one like the know lip group, smoother and more reolistic. Someone inovative could make a standard remap of the lips that people could texture for (Stale did this for P4) or even a morph conforming lip prop? Judy had the ONLY realistic female body so far, but I never could figure out why it was nearly imposible to magnet. For some reason I have always favored the P4 chest/collar scheme and I think its deficiencies are fixible with better rigging and ERC joint controled morphs (is that what they are called). Have you ever noticed that strangely there is less groin distortion in P2 wposes then any other female figure?

Wink to Yamato: Jessie Head over P5 Body.Let's say TentenP6.Hoping he reads this.

All this Tenten and Annann stuff is confusing me :( I would be so much better off with descriptive names Llikne V2headP5body Female! I believe V2 can be scalled and morphed well to realism but to be quite honest and at risk of getting flamed in the current climate around here... my most realistic figure for an adult femal (5'2"-5'4" height and some body fat) is a scaled MlleniumPT with the V2 breast morphs moved over and dialed negative... the body fat distribution is great and it scales to a normal adult height beautifull, even scalled completely to V2 proprtions the hip bone shape is superior. The hassle for me has been trying to get a good adult head base that does not interact poorly with the morphs... I would love a PT/V2 hybrid mesh but I have been unsucessful in this regard.

In the case of Yamato's work, the new names are justified, IMO, because he re-shapes the figures completely.

The drawback, of course, is the usual one: no clothes. Though there are more freebies for his models than most such figures have.

Ughh! I am over with http://www.eurus.dti.ne.jp/%7Emasasi/Service/indexE.html looking at these figures, I guess I will try downloading blind (I understand these generous people are not primarly English speakers) but I won't now til when/if they get on my computer if these TenTens, CanCans, and Ranrans are characters or hybrids :( Can anyone straighten this all out for me?

Victoria is more of a classic beauty. Jessi is more of the girl next door type.

However -- Jessi can be morphed into a classic beauty; and Victoria can be morphed into the girl next door.

I'll take 'em both.

It's not an either/or thing.

Jessi's rigging? A service release might take care of that problem.

I'd say that it's too early to make any final pronouncements just yet.

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THANK YOU XENOPHONZ. That is the reality. Now..... at the risk of getting shot by kahi again, and while everyone is here in this hot topic.... Assume for a moment that CL only fixes the feet/hands obvious bizzarness, and leaves the rest as it is. Maxx and others are saying the rig is like posette or P4 and not very good. Okay. Can you guys be specific? is it the inflexibility, limited range of motion, hard to pose, what is it that disappoints with the non-improved rig? Thank you. ::::: Opera :::::

i'm not sure what people mean by the rigging issues with Jessi. Personaly I like posing her, her legs and hips don't seam to break apart like v3 does. I find they bend so much better. One of the real problems with Jessi I find is the default poses that come with p6 are very poorly made.. It's sort of like they took the default Judy poses and applied them to Jessi with out even bothering to check them out..

and just one more. I don't know.. her body just looks damn good to me.. and it poses better... look at her hips...

momodot, The only figure that Im familiar with is the TenTenJ, which is a fuller and plumper older version of the PT mesh. The face is still a little young so you put the Vic2 head on her. You don't need to make a PT/V2 hybrid (that youve tried to do) since they are both the same mesh. Just make a V2 head morph for the PT. Load both meshes..turn off IK and zero them. Using only the body dial move V2 down (Y tran) to put her head in the same position as the PT. Scale the head to fit. Now export separately, Vic2 head and both eyes as obj's with only "Include Body Part Names in Polygon Groups" and "Include Existing Groups in Polygon Groups" checked. Theres your morphs. This took about five minutes to create. As to my opinion as to which figure(s) looks better.... Hell, they are all just pre-rigged primitives to me. Make what you want out of them. SWAMP

I got my P6 and played with Jessi for about 1/2 hour. I think she rocks. The lip and jaw morphs (jaw left/right) are very nice and the expressions you can achieve seem much more realistic and believable. I hope she gets major support.

Can anybody post pics of Jessies "problem-areas"?

"if these TenTens, CanCans, and Ranrans are characters or hybrid" TenTens are characters for V2 (TenTenN), MGPT (TenTenJ) and MGPS (TenTenS). CanCan & RanRan are characters for Posette (P4Woman). None of them is hybrid. Most of them contain also a hairprop.

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the shoulder/inward curving arm is not Jessie only....all poser models with a few exceptions share it. This image is from a package in Content Paradise. ::::: Opera :::::

I like Jessi's body better than Victoria's. I like Victoria's face better than Jessi's. I find Jessi's face to be strange and ugly. If/when I get P6 the first thing I'll do is get to work on the default female head in the face room + hopefully create some morphs for it. If that turns out well I'd use Jessi - otherwise her face is a deal breaker and I wouldn't user her for much.

Thank you vilian and SWAMP. Swamp... this is good, I had tried moving the head over with Morph Manager and they worked only sort of... there were weird distortions on the mouth...

The thread is now getting interesting. Perceived uglyness and beauty depend on the viewer and can be morphed away. I'd be interested to have one of you experts explain the difference between the two types of rigging. The "Victoria" rigging is actually from the Evo posette figure, or am I mistaken? It seems to have fixed some bending problems and created a whole bunch of new ones, like maccaroni arms and kinky thighs. Right? The P6 rigging seems to be better in some poses and worse in others. I'd be interested to read about a knowledgable analysis of the rigging situation from some of you.

Though I find both models have their strong points, out of the box, I prefer Jessi's look. I think she is a bit thin at the knee, but that is easily fixed with magnets. And, I'm with alamanos on the joints. I find that most of them function as well or better than V3's. Unfortunately, I only got to play with her for about three minutes before P6 crashed and Windows rebooted on me. :(

Ahem...Opera,...ah...Would be interesting to see distortions when posing the hip/thigh area without buttock bones.I'm afraid you cannot post these pics here.Maybe possible in cartoon rendering.

Capsces, we are anxious to see you do your magic on the P6 figures. 8-)

They're both meshes. Both have a specific look out of the box. The real idea of how useful a Poser figure is, is how much you can do with it. V3 currently has a ton of support, textures, morphs (both body and head), Jessie has what looks to be an excellent start in head morphs at rDNA, but hasn't been out long enough to build up any kind of library for support. Ask again after some more stuff is available. I've been looking at renders of James, and it's ALMOST made me ready to spend money on P6. Both Jessie and James look like they've got lots of potential, if vendors start providing support for them. Frankly, I'm hoping that a UTC plugin is made for the new figures. That and a service pack release that fixes the memory leak would do it.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=2197393

does this view from Cassette help?

more,more...I'm realy flattend by that detailed spine muscles

Wow, it seems as if most people like Jessi better, with V2 and V3 in strong competition for second.

timber, i don't know if she morphed the back like that (it DOES look good) or that is the default. I hope you left her a nice little compliment. ::::: Opera :::::

I also prefer Jessi, I think her legs, ankles and feet are much more realistic. Sharen

After being told I was as wrong as I could be for thinking that V3 was a far superior looking figure than Jessi I'd like to point out that this was NOT the case. I never mentioned your opinion was wrong, only that it belonged in another thread. One does not complain about the underlying figure when someone asks for input on something else. That said, it appears my opinion is shared by a few others grin

Here's an example of Jess and V3 in a challenging pose. Admittedly, V3's shoulder doesn't look great. But at least you can get her into a position resembling that of a human. Most women, if their upper arms are parallel to their bodies and they bend their lower arm up, the palm is roughly even with the shoulder. With Jessi, her palm is well above her shoulder. Similarly, most women can put the back of their wrists to their foreheads with their forearms perpendicular to the ground, or even with the hand sloped downward a bit.

I also find Jessi's torso doesn't bend as naturally and gracefully as V3's. You can see that in the image, I think. Vicky's shoulder is awkward-looking, but her chest, waist, and hips look a lot more lithe. (SP is even better, IMO.)

I think Jessi's face is pretty, except that the whole 'angry young woman' thing is overdone IMO (brow-ridge is too well defined, not crazy about her boney cranium shape, etc. I tried to soften up her attitude a bit in this image). Her body is too stylized for my tastes... I don't so much mind women who look like they can kick my ass, it's the ones that look like they can and WANT TO, that I have a problem with ;). It would have been nice for her to have some of the features we've all grown accustomed to (separate brow trans-materials, separate lip material, separate nipple material, to name a few). All that aside, it's nice to have options. Randym77 - your comparison (image) is a little misleading... due to thier different joint setups, you have to spend time getting each into the same pose... not that I am necessarily refuting your position on what and how the joints bend.

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I did spend time. That was as close as I could get. I'm no Schlabber, I freely admit.

Being that Jessi doesn't have materials for separate brow trans, lips, etc, there may be some flexibility in that area as to where you can place the textures. If you soften the brow ridge and place the eyebrows slightly higher than they are currently on the texture map, you may get rid of some of that stern look. Nice transformation, by the way!

...she makes a decent bodybuilder, I guess (no morphs, default body.. textures are a WIP).

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beautiful job!

Nice, but I see what you mean about it being too stylized. That body doesn't seem to go with that face.

BTW, I did try placing the brow higher on the texture to soften her up some, but you really can't do that (very effectively) without also morphing the brow-ridge bone (as you mentioned). I might mess with that more later.

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Watching these pictues I guess you just need to scale up the body x and z axis to "decartoonize" Jessie.It looks as if she realy needs some shoulder-joint fixes.

Don't forget that the brows can be moved up nicely in the face room - one of the more convincing morphs in there

Jessie-I like that Face.

Yeah Eternl Knight, I kind of exaggerated that part of it... I was really trying to convey that everyone disagreed with me. It appears that would be the case on a larger scale judging by this thread... ...sigh... consigned to a minority...

Yes, the shoulders are very problematic. Here's a simple, both arms raised pose. V3 could be improved, but Jessi looks like a Barbie doll.

And here's a cheerleader-type pose. Again, V3 could be better, but Jessi's got a really ugly and unnatural crease on her butt.

Don't worry,onimusha you put on an interesting and usefully (at least for me)discussion.

I'll throw in here for SP3 and/or A3 instead of both Jessi and V3. I like the freshness, newness, of Jessi, and wonder how soon it'll wear off. V3 doesn't get my vote except for having a nicer wardrobe and more nice hair and textures and characters available on the market.

O.k. I partially retract what I said before. After seeing the last few comparison images, I think Vic's body is better than Jessi's. I already felt Vic's face is lightyears better than Jessi's. Main Jessi face problems - alien shaped head, hawk like eyes/brows, bizzare/ugly hook nose, collagen OD lips. Ie. her current face is useless. I've only seen one or two images of the default P6 female head for the face room. It looked like it has potential for morphing. Hopefully I'm right about that. Cause without that, the P6 female isn't going to be worth much. Anyone care to post some more images of the default P6 female head? V3 wins hands down.

randy77: the only way I can duplicate your results with Jessis' arms is if I don't adjust her collars at all...?? From the front view it seems V's collars have been adjusted upwards and Jessi's haven't.

Message edited on: 04/06/2005 18:44

I did adjust her collars. Adjusting her collars lets you adjust where the weird bump is: higher or lower on her chest.

Unzipped, I think the face room default is the same as the Jessi default. You can make some very distinctive changes in her face in the Face Room.

This is pretty much right out of the box.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1686992

"I think the face room default is the same as the Jessi default."

That would be very bad news indeed. I was muddled in my thinking on where I thought I saw the "default" p6 head. I had reread Geep's face room tutorial for p5 a few days ago, and he worked with the default face there. In p5 Judy was a morph off the default face - are you telling me Jessi isn't the same, that in fact the default p6 face is actually the Jessi face and that Jessi isn't just a morph off of the default face? Can someone who has or is intimately familiar with p6 verify this situation? As I said, that might be a deal breaker for me, because some of her facial structures look nearly unmorphable (is that a word?), particulary her awful nose structure.

Unzipped edited to read "default face" rather than "default female face" - sorry if that caused confusion

Message edited on: 04/06/2005 19:24

Hmmm

Well, I tried applying the default head to Jessi, and it didn't look much different. Let me investigate more. In any case, her head is a very dense mesh. I would imagine it could be morphed very nicely.

Is it possible you had the dress, hair, or jewelry selected when you went into the face room? And, the head used in the Face Room is indeed Jessi's (or James' when he is selected).

this is what I get, by no means a pose at all, just used the same numbers on their right collars/shoulders -

I don't see Jessi's head when I take her in the face room. There is not even a resemblance. It's not James face either. ;o)

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I might have messed up on my last post. I went back and tried the regular Jessi, not the hires mesh, and she went in the face room just fine. I also just learned that the finger smoosh thingie that lets you morph intuitively, lets you morph each side of the face separately. Not something I need to do a lot, but it's nice. I'll go back and try loading the hires Jessi again and let you know.

Francemi, if you choose the button to import the original head texture you will indeed see Jessi as shown in the pose room. It's the default face room texture that makes her look entirely different.

You won't see the face until you apply it. That's just a sort of schematic you see in the Face Room. I tried applying the default faces, and Deecey's right: the default face room head is Jessi's for Jessi, James' for James. But you can make them look quite different in the Face Room. Ethnic morphs aren't nearly as good as DAZ's, though.

OK, It's a little bit the fault of the GUI, because when I try to go into the face room, it -tends- to re-select the dress even though I have Jessi selected at the time. After four tries it stuck and I took her in there. She morphs just like she should.

I guess you're supposed to create the face first, and dress her later. Has anyone bought the morph packs at RDNA?

But what does the default head look like with no texture applied? Can you morph the default head without applying Jessi's or James's faces? Is there an exportable .obj for the default head, or can you create an .obj for it in poser and export that? Basically - is there a vanilla default P6 head that you can export and go to work on to create morphs without starting at a Jessi base? If so could someone post an image or two of that? Unzipped

Can you morph the default head without applying Jessi's or James's faces? Jessi and James have head geometry that is different than the default head that Don, Judy, Will and Penny were based on. It's all new mesh. So, the default head you get for Judy is Judy's (both hi res and lo res versions), and the same goes for James default hi and lo res heads. I suspect that the reason they went this route was that with the old method, applying the default head to the P5 characters, created heads that were way out of proportion to the rest of the body. As Randy said, though, there are a lot of morphs in the face room that allow you to totally change the look. You can dial them in manually just like the morphs you get with the Millenium figures.

Has anyone bought the morph packs at RDNA? The morph packs at RDNA are very helpful in addition to the face room. As was the case with P5, the hardest areas to work at in the Face Room were around the nose and mouth ... so Colm's morph packs fill that void and much more.

Movida, the angle at which you are showing the figure hides the problem. You can see it most clearly from the back. Either you have the Barbie-doll arms, or you have that weird chunk taken out of her torso. (Image has the dial settings you posted.)

And V3 has JCMs that come built-in, to help fix her collar and shoulder in extreme positions.

Thanks Deecey, I think that answers my questions - you have to start with a Jessi base to create faces for the P6 female. I have to say that's a real bring me down. Her face is a bad starting place for raw material in terms of creating other faces - V3 was pretty versatile in that regard (unless you're trying to do Asian type faces, it doesn't really lend itself to that so well). I hope the Sixus1 folks are seeing this thread, taking all this in and considering it in thier Project Human machinations. Make your main male/female characters as vanilla/versatile/adaptable as possible - the morphers will take care of stylization for you.

I can't get the lips thin! I keep wanting to make thinner lips, for older people. There's no dial, and smooshing causes the chin shape to whack out on me. I didn't get the RDNA stuff yet but will tomorrow am. Exporting just the head is a no-brainer. Same as P5, Here's my first morph target. Yikes!!!!

After getting more than three minutes to play with Jessi, I've found a few problems (other than the toes), but in general I like her body shape and her face. She looks different than V3, which I find refreshing. I feel they both have their place in the Poser world. However, I think both are too geometry heavy. Following are the problems I found with Jessi. Not sure if they have been mentioned. The collars nor the shoulders look very good bent up more than 30 degrees.

capses -- I totally agree about the geometry heavy. I won't be buying a lot of goodies for these folks because I've only got a gig of ram and already my system is on its knees with P6, with no shadows and just a teeny bit of raytrace (-2) and buckets at 32. Sheesh!

Moonrancher, I like that morph! Shark lady! LOL! So that's why Jessi so polygon-heavy even on her scalp, which will rarely be seen... ;-)

Okay... jumping in here after reading this thread and seeing many pictures of Jesse.

-------------- About Jesse The Figure Mesh --------------
I like Jesse's face! She's intense looking. She demands attention. Jesse is a defined character from the start as opposed to an averaged figure like V3, (the only figure who's shape is somewhat similar to Jesse is AnimeDoll/MayaDoll imho). Jesse's a major leap forward for a default Poser Figure. She has wonderful detail in the neck, shoulder, collar, hip, back, and upper thighs (but I don't like the ribcage sticking out). She would never be mistaken for another female Poser figure. She's not generic. This is all plus.

The downside to her mesh is her out-of-proportion body shape in regard to the hands, feet, knees, and arms. But that should be simple to fix by either CL or a talented Poser expert, right?

-------------- About Jesse's Pose-ablity --------------
Here's where bad things happen to an otherwise good thing. Jesse poses no better than Posette cira 1999. She's like rubbery like Gumby in her joint. This is where V2, V3, SP, Steph, Aiko, Laura, and Maddie got her licked, they pose better, but even they don't pose that great for my tastes. Perhaps someday there will be a MAJOR breakthourgh in improving JPs and poses. Maybe if we shout about it enough, that day will come sooner than later.

-------------- About Jesse's UV Maps --------------
First I love having more detail in the neck than a Mill 3 figure. The resoultion quailty between the head and neck is a MAJOR problem in my book. So this is a plus for Jesse. The downside is there proably will be very few textures made for her because her UVs are so different.

And I want to make one more comment about compairing V3 to Jesse...

Curious Labs makes software, (you know a cool program called Poser).
Daz3D makes models that go into Poser.

So I think it's a bit unfair to compare a company that specializes in human figures with a company that makes software. Considering that, I think it's damnned impressive that Curious Labs was able to make Poser Female as good as Jesse is. I expect Daz figures to be better, afterall I pay extra for them. Jesse comes with the program. I think newbies who start with poser 6 will be really happy to have a female figure who's as good as Jesse out of the box. --- Just a thought.

p.s. Can the Poser Gods fix Jesse to take V3 textures or re-slice her so she poses like a Mill 3 figure? I assume DAZ is protecting their copyright on JP and rigging, but still it would be cool to re-rig Jesse.

p.s.s. I know very little about Judy's body. She's the best female body? Can someone do a side by side comparison of all the Poser Females and a test pose for them all too? I'd to take the best parts of each figure and then slice and dice them into creating the best figure overall.

bB

Message edited on: 04/06/2005 20:26

For what it's worth, the standard Jessi (not the hi res) is a lot easier on resources.

DAZ is no longer just a content maker. They now make D|S, too. And that may just provide the posing solution you want. D|S is supposed have a more sophisticated rigging system than Poser. I think their next version of Victoria may have a D|S version that takes advantage of the more advanced rigging.

Poser 7 may also have an all-new rigging system. That was hinted at. Supposedly, the new rigging system will make buttocks and divided chests unnecessary - hence Jessi's Posette-like joints.

They are fixing Jessi's hands and feet. I doubt they'll fix the rest of her, unless villagers start storming the castle with pitchforks and torches. Changing her joints means her clothes won't fit. Not just the CL-made stuff, but all the merchant-created things.

If Jessi is re-rigged, I think it will be by third parties. Perhaps Yamato will make a TenTen Jessi?

I don't think Judy is the best female body. She's the most realistic, though. Not anime-ish like Jessi, not idealized like V3. More of a real woman. She doesn't pose or morph all that well, though.

And what about low-res Jessi? To my eye, she looks just as good as high-res Jessi. She's got the same number of polys as V2, so is much lighter on the system resources than high-res Jess.

She's got the same number of polys as V2, so is much lighter on the system resources than high-res Jess. Yes. Cloth sims are faster on her (less polygons) and with smooth shading on you can hardly tell the difference between her and her denser counterpart. With Capsces' method of doing morphs with magnets, I can easily see her doing her classic character morphs for both hi and lo res versions.

Now there's an idea. And how about morph packs for V3 RR or M3 RR?

Yes, Deecey, standard res Jessi is way better on resources, but I had to push. Then I also wanted to get some serious face wrinkles happening, and I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up needing the extra polys in the hires Jessi for that. So for me it ends up being about the 'state of the art', which is still limited by the performance of the pc. Can't have everything. Like a truck and a house and also a couple of workstations. Gotta be realistic and try to live within the means of the pc. LOL.

I think Jessi has great potential. I would certainly take her over V3 "out-of-the-box." Of course you can make V3 look great with morphs, magnets, and scaling. Right now, it's a little harder to change Jessi's appearance. I like her the way she is, but other people do not.

Just wait for CL's fixes and some good add-on products, then decide. Try this thread again in six months.

Just trying to put some makeup on her face. Textures are CL's original, not Winter Queen.

Attached Link: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=17715

Look, Netherworks has already come out with a morph pack for Jessi. It's for standard-res Jessi. And people are griping that they'd prefer high-res. :-/

Thanks Deecey, I didn't know that about importing texture.

France, Proud Owner of

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I put in a plug for low res. 8-)

Oh yes, Francemi! It's especially good if you've created a custom texture (even in the face room) and you want to make sure your Face Room morph looks good with it!

I think CL droped the ball on Jessi. Eyes mapped wrong, missing/lack of material groups, very poor rigging, poorly done morphs, what there is of them and last but not least, not very Shade friendly. Yet I like her. Not a V3 but another choice to create with. Here is a face I created with the Morph set at RNDA. Forgive the poor render, I just can't figure out how to get a crisp render in P6.

I guess I'm one of the few who never got V3, I just never liked her. Personally, I prefer the idealized look...if I want realistic I could look at a picture. :D I LOVE Jessi I think she is great for an included figure and I can see a lot of potential with her. The expressions for all the default figures are very dynamic. Here is a quicky morph I did for her.

Another quick face one. I did this in a matter of minutes just to show how easily she can transform.

I like that face but what is that at the bottom of her eyes? Looks like there's a piece of skin missing. Did you do that after the update or before?

France, Proud Owner of

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I think you forgot to set the morph dials for the eyes.

Where Deecey? (the morph dials)

France, Proud Owner of

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If you spawned a morph from the face room, there should also be morph dials for the eyes. They will appear in the Morph section of the parameters window, and will be labeled something like LeftEye 1 and RightEye 1. In other words, click the Left eye and look for a morph; and then click the Right eye and look for a morph.

Message edited on: 04/07/2005 00:05

When you spawn a morph in the face room, does it do something to let you know it worked? I tried that the other day and I didn't see anything so I thought it didn't work.

France, Proud Owner of

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OK, here's my contribution to the Jessi thread. This is actually standard-res (not hi-res) Jessi, using morphs created strictly in the Face Room (no external morph packs). I would have liked to soften the nostrils a bit, but this isn't too bad. The only thing I did was add the Real Skin Shader to her default texture ... and slapped on a textured catsuit that I'm working on.

Here is how I feel about the V3/Jessi debate. I think they both have their place. I love DAZ's figures because they are extremely versatile and have style. They do glamourous and sexy really well, and lots of people like pretty people.

But take a look at Jessi here ... she looks like the type of girl that you'd meet on the street and want to hang around with. She's cute. She looks "real". I love the shape of her eyes and mouth ... they are expressive. I'm not real crazy about the nose, but hey, I can morph that. 8-) PS - I'm still struggling with the lighting but it's getting better! LOL

Message edited on: 04/07/2005 00:26

Francemi, that's actually the best way to to it .. you spawn a morph. It doesn't look like anything happened, but when you go to the parameters window, click the head and look in the section titled Morph (down near the bottom). You'll see a morph dial named Head. Dial it to 1 to get your face room face. Then click the Left eye, and do the same to the morph named LeftEye 1; and so on for the Right Eye

Actually the morphs were made in zbrush. The weird thing at the bottom of her eyes is because I'm still trying to figure out how to import without the eyelashes attached. Hard to see what I'm doing with the eyelashes still on...lol. I did say it was a quick morph. grin I will try out the service release and see if that changes anything.

I don't have Poser 6, but from reading through this thread and looking at all the images, I'd have to say I like the both of them...I get so bored with the same thing that I like the idea of having different types of characters to play with. I hope to get the newer version of Poser eventually, but till then, I'll just have fun browsing all the renders created with the newer figures...

RDNA's Molly texture and age morphs

Frightening!!! barely human :-(

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"Frightening!!! barely human :-(" You're right... sadly it looks like my aunt though!