momodot opened this issue on Apr 26, 2005 ยท 70 posts
momodot posted Tue, 26 April 2005 at 10:15 PM
xantor posted Tue, 26 April 2005 at 10:18 PM
The newer the figure, the more unnatural they look.
maxxxmodelz posted Tue, 26 April 2005 at 10:23 PM
"The newer the figure, the more unnatural they look." Sure, until you morph them.
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elizabyte posted Tue, 26 April 2005 at 10:27 PM
"The newer the figure, the more unnatural they look." Yeah, that Posette sure is realistic. bonni
"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis
BillyGoat posted Tue, 26 April 2005 at 10:33 PM
What a scary bunch! Looks like a Poser police lineup. Maya Doll looks like an alien and Jessi a demonoid. I see #4 has had an 'operation'... Thanks for the laughs!
tastiger posted Tue, 26 April 2005 at 10:37 PM
I'd like to see Dina in the lineup as well, just for comparison, she sort of had something about her but wasn't well supported...
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operaguy posted Tue, 26 April 2005 at 10:48 PM
my comment is: the bulging shoulder/inward curving upper arm is unavoidable in Poser. ::::: Opera :::::
nickedshield posted Tue, 26 April 2005 at 11:07 PM
Jessie? I keep seeing Twiggy re-incarnated.
I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.
hauksdottir posted Tue, 26 April 2005 at 11:16 PM
Posette holds up well. If her breasts weren't so square, she'd have the best overall figure of the lot (total proportions and ratios). Jessi's upper arms are too short... but a bit of scaling can fix that.
KimberlyC posted Tue, 26 April 2005 at 11:20 PM
hides they are all kinda scary. I really can't tell which is better. :P
_____________________
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momodot posted Tue, 26 April 2005 at 11:57 PM
These images and actual real life nakid women are available to 3D developers for miniscule cost. Levious gives unlimited royalty free for $14USD/month. I paid models $10-$25USD per hour and sometimes per shoot. Some were exotic dancers who offered sexual services in addition for only double the rate. I no longer higher model since I am poor now and have no affiliation as an instructor to protect me from false alligations (I used to video tape all sessions for legal reasons).
XENOPHONZ posted Tue, 26 April 2005 at 11:57 PM
momodot posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 12:09 AM
Should the TOS ban naked heads rather than naked pubes I wonder... I go for the bald chicks myself.
Fazzel posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 12:54 AM
Is it just my opinion, or does Jessi without hair look like a martian?
maxxxmodelz posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 1:03 AM
"Is it just my opinion, or does Jessi without hair look like a martian?" I think they all do. Personally, I couldn't care less what a character/figure looks like 'out of the box' without hair, etc. It's the ability to morph and sculpt that mesh, how it's rigged, and how the UV's are laid out that's ultimately important to me. The unaltered base mesh could resemble a box of rice for all I care. ;-)
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elizabyte posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 1:03 AM
Posette holds up well. If her breasts weren't so square, she'd have the best overall figure of the lot (total proportions and ratios). I like Posette, generally, but her upper body/chest is too wide. Most women don't have a ribcage shaped like an upside down cone. ;) I also hate, hate, HATE her knees and elbows, although the more I learn to digitally paint, the less of an issue that is. I can just paint out the broken mesh... ;) bonni
"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis
stahlratte posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 1:32 AM
"Most women don't have a ribcage shaped like an upside down cone."
I agree about the ribcage, and in fact I wont use any of the various meshes "as is".
And I also admit that (with more or less work) each of them could be morphed into something that might be recognizeable as a human being.
But if you generally like to work with Posette but are bothered by her knees and ellbows, I strongly recommend to try NEAena with the added LinLin joint parameters instead:
stahlratte
elizabyte posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 1:42 AM
I have NEA, but haven't used her yet. I think I may just have to. Wow! :) bonni
"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis
masha posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 1:46 AM
For goodeness'akes - real model #2 throws Pengiuinisto's suggestion that a certain merchant marketing a certain texture is in need of an anatomy lesson ..in doubt? ehehe.. .who'da thunk it! And momedot, model #5 - is it girl or a modest guy and really for real live model or a manequin? Just shows the immense diversity of the human form don't it?
Sarte posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 1:47 AM
Purile mode: LOL BOOBIES.
Do the impossible, see the invisible
ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER
Touch the untouchable, break the unbreakable
ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER
elizabyte posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 2:34 AM
For goodeness'akes - real model #2 throws Pengiuinisto's suggestion that a certain merchant marketing a certain texture is in need of an anatomy lesson ..in doubt? If it's the one I think you're referring to, the line up the front is her pubic hair, shaved or waxed into that which some call a Pubic Mohawk. bonni
"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis
Casette posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 2:58 AM
"Any comments?" No. All commented in another thread :)
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Spanki posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 3:54 AM
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masha posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 4:26 AM
bonni: "If it's the one I think you're referring to, the line up the front is her pubic hair, shaved or waxed into that which some call a Pubic Mohawk." I mean the real life model #2 in msg #11 - no pubic hair there - is there? Or is it just very blond?
Spanki posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 4:33 AM
Yes, it's hard to see at that resolution, but that is what bonni is referring to as well. It's hair.
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Spanki posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 4:48 AM
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Spanki posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 4:58 AM
Attached Link: http://www.3d.sk/sitemap.htm
also... *"...model #5 - is it girl or a modest guy and really for real live model or a manequin?"* It's a live model (see link). Interestingly, her genitals appear to be a bit higher than usual/average.Cinema4D Plugins (Home of Riptide, Riptide Pro, Undertow, Morph Mill, KyamaSlide and I/Ogre plugins) Poser products Freelance Modelling, Poser Rigging, UV-mapping work for hire.
Damsel posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 7:13 AM
A question for those belonging to 3D.sk. If I sign up and use my bank account as an auto withdrawl, is there a problem if and when I need to cancel my membership in the future? Thanks for any info. Damsel
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momodot posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 7:19 AM
maxxxmodelz, which figure do you find the best as a morph base? I like PT with breast and adult scaling. I wish I could try SP3. stahlratte, wow. Spanki, terrific... what is it? It is realy terrfic. Very human though tall. It is REALY nice. Post-working the goofy Millenium shoulders and adding a little pelvic bone on the front of the hip is all I could want for realism. I drove myself nuts on trying to shift the pelvic bones forward on V2, that is why I switched to PT with breasts and age enhancement. This is sweet though, Spanki. How did you get that nice wide pubic area? Magnets? That is a nice face, looks V3 not SP3 to me, but I have not tried my V3 yet and probably never will get the chance to try SP. Very nice indeed. Not the least it is nice to see a grown woman... not a hooters girl, anime, or a faye --not that there is anything wrong with those. I would be very happy to have that figure. Your gallery is stunning! Thanks.
momodot posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 7:24 AM
Spanki, I'll try to check out your gallery but with my dial up it takes a few minutes to download a single page so I'll have to set aside sometime... but it looks worth it. 161 images!!! THIS IS YOUR HOMEMADE FIGURE!!!!!! It is totaly gosh drarn amazing!!!!! WOW! WOW!WOW!WOW!WOW!WOW!WOW!WOW!WOW!WOW!WOW!WOW!WOW!WOW! I know how shoulders are... just get some hip bone in the front of the hip and it is perfect! Amazing!
momodot posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 7:27 AM
That is seriously good, Spanki.
aeilkema posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 7:28 AM
Any comments? Yep.... what a pointless thread ;-)
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
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Food for thought.....
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egaeus posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 7:57 AM
Actually I've found the real test as to whether or not a model is "realistic" is looking at them in poses from the side. For some reason, the existing models generally seem to have arms that are way too thin and seem awkward looking viewed from the side.
Bobasaur posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 10:33 AM
Ummm. Could somebody list the names of each of the models in the original post - perhaps from left to right. I don't know which is who and suspect others out there may not either. Pretty please.
Before they made me they broke the mold!
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momodot posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 11:21 AM
Bobasaur, Left to right: P4 Nude Woman (Posette) Victoria 2 Stephanie 1 Poser 5 Nude woamn (Judy) MayaDoll P6 Nude Woman (Jessie) I wish somone would show me a default pose of Stephanie Petite, I suspect it might be the best model available for realism but I can not aford it. egaeus, sorry, I had that this was a forum for discussing Poser, an aplication for rendering digital images and animations featuring realistic human figures (according to the promotional literature) but I suppose some people think this is no place for a discussion of aesthetics or technical aspects of the application's figures when endless discussions of the TOS is what the forum is realy about ;) I had hoped people would share how they feel the figures look and which figures they find most usefull and fun. That is why the first post had text only so Bondware would accept the upload, I did not want to say anything at all, I wanted to hear what other people had to say about what they like and what works for them. I have thought about the issue of figures... I am glad for the anime figures, I use Sara and Shazam myself, and I don't feel anyone owes me a realistic figure... I post work everything to death anyway, I still use P2 figures since I am going to completly paint over them in the end anyway. But, as an artist (I use that term purely in the professional sense) I do wonder when I think of it, why the standard figures when represented by CL, Metacreations, whoever, as "realistic" diverge so far from any human figures I have seen in years of professional work, study, and visits to the beach... A lot of money is involved so one would think photos and anatamy books (and even live figure models) would be consulted, so the only conclussion left is that the figures represent an artistic or commercialy driven choice. What is peculier is that although the male figures are certainly idealized, they do not seem to me to be to the same extent stylized. I am happy with and use all the figure I can download or buy (Jessie not yet though I bought the face pack) but I am curious about how they come to be and what people think of them. I am not being nasty when isay I would love to see a picture of someone just resembling jessie, only curious. Realy. I apreciate all the work all the artist who have made these figures have put into them, and each has a use, but personaly I am curious about the thinkig behind the standard figures. I also apreciate those who have posted in this thread, though I had hoped to hear more opininions... And aeilkema, don't follow threads you don't like if that causes you pain... it should have been evident from the first post what the thread was about, why torture yourself by scrolling down? I would have skipped your post but it made it through my filter LOL
narcissus posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 12:14 PM
:^)
pitklad
Bobasaur posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 12:17 PM
Thanks! I don't mind the characters looking 'stylized' but I really wish there was an easy way - out of the box - to give them more real attributes like increase their weight. I wish that was also easily done with their clothing as well. On the PC side there are some apps - like The Tailer - that help but us Mac people have to make sacrifices. It seems to me, though, that that really ought to be a basic feature of the program.
Before they made me they broke the mold!
http://home.roadrunner.com/~kflach/
momodot posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 12:52 PM
Hey Pitklad! That is so cool! Thank you :)
bnetta posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 1:05 PM
we seem to be forgetting alot of other female models in this line up......are the others not under suspection??lol netta
momodot posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 3:39 PM
netta, I don't own any other fems :( except for PT which I didn't know if I could include even with large breasts and V3 which I have not installed in P6 yet. Poser was choking on this .pz3, took two hours of P6 crashes and snags before I could get the 1 or 2 minute render done. I would love to see the full collection done up like this... pitklad has given the best post in this thread I think.
Spanki posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 4:08 PM
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momodot posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 4:20 PM
They both look great. Thanks. I like the armpit area on yours more but I like the dip inbetween the thigh and hip being deeper and lower on SP3. I also like the SP3 big head and hands that go to make it "petite" but yours looks like a tall beauty. SP3 has more realistic breasts but yours has what most people would consider more attractive breasts though not unreal. I would be quite happy to have either... your work certainly shows what one talented person can do marked against a commercial team working full-time. Very impressive. I have to see what the full cost for a working (morphs et all.) SP3 is :(
Spanki posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 4:36 PM
Thanks for the additional comments... interestingly, the earlier version of my model 'looked' more petite (shorter shins and thighs, for one thing), but I was trying to re-shape her somewhat based on some comments... I'm not sure I like the changes yet. I'm also still struggling to get the right head-size for the particular height - I think it's still too small in the above image. On the breasts... personally, I like all kinds, shapes and sizes ;). Though I'm shooting for a "clothed/bra'd" shape in the base model (some gravity morphs should handle the nekid and/or non-surgically enhanced look better).
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lesbentley posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 4:40 PM
In post #1 the figure on the left (Posette) looks best!
tastiger posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 6:11 PM
Please note 2 figures clothed to avoid possible TOS violation.
Just couldn't find a texture anywhere on my HD for NYW - must have one somewhere, will have to do some housekeeping
The supreme irony of life is that hardly anyone gets out of
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momodot posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 6:27 PM
Thanks.
momodot posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 6:38 PM
See line up by Jim Burton post number 27 at http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=2231008
masha posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 7:17 PM
Spankie - wonderful modeling!
You didn't ask me, but since you set me straight on the vagina mysteries above, I'm going to offer my 'observations'. :)
Love the torso part of your figure though possibly the waist would look more natural if a tiny-bit less cinched to get way from the belted -in look. Love the definition of the collarbone in particular. Belly could slope down a tad to just above the jut of the pubic bone to emphasize both.
I agree that both head and hands should be bigger, but the main improvements needed, as you said yourself ,would be the calves and Momodots suggestion re the inner thighs. Perhaps the kneecaps are a little too small and not defined enough like the muscles in the calves. In fact that rel-life model of the 'vagina mysteries' above has pretty shapely knees and calves that would go with your figure well.
Pretty cheeky from a person who has nothing to show yet of modeling, huh? :) (lots of painting of the human figure though). I think it is shaping up to be a superb figure! Would love to get it when available :)
narcissus posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 9:24 PM
:^)
I personaly looove Natalia's legs!
And generaly find Judy's body very human unlike her Unhuman head! And especialy AnAn is one of the best additions to every library!
Also V2 is a good base figure I've used her a lot and have so many things for her...
V3 never made a big difference in shape from V2 to me...
SP looks to be the most realistic of all!
Jessy has a good face,realistic but not Neutral so all characters based on her will difficult get rid of that(like mike2)...
As for her body?Nope,this is not a bodytype I've ever seen on real life(same as MayaDoll)
pitklad
momodot posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 9:58 PM
Somone should try to get a neutral "base" face for Mike2... I'll try if I get a chance. Just spinning dials he always looks like himself to me, you are right pitklad. I'm sure everyone is tired of me promoting NEA but the figure realy dominates in these comparisons.
momodot posted Wed, 27 April 2005 at 10:29 PM
Was just at DAZ... SP3 is $79.USD for base and face/body morphs. I guess they know their market, V3 is $29 to buy into.. I just can't see dropping $79 on a figure :( I wish I had putmy V3 money toward SP.
stahlratte posted Thu, 28 April 2005 at 12:04 AM
Although I agree with almost all of the already made comments, just remember that none of these meshes are "fixed".
True, many people never seem to spin a dial and it IS tough to "get the Vicky out of Vicky", so default looks are important and anatomical correctness even more, but...
...still, remember that a mesh is just polygons floating in a virtual space, so (default) shape is irrelevant:
...and so is gender:
...as well as age:
(All pics NEA without postwork)
So Im all for diversity, and especially for folks making their OWN meshes from scratch like Spanki ! WOW ! :-)
stahlratte
tastiger posted Thu, 28 April 2005 at 12:30 AM
There really are some good figures floating around, I guess we don't see more of them because the market isn't flooded with clothing for them like it is for Victoria range - - it is a real shame, especially when you realize that some of these models are free and you don't have to pay for the morphs to "add on".
They tend to get lost and forgotten and only used by those who adopt them as their favourite model.
I use V3 most of the time - because i have stuff for her....
An example is, I think of what could have been done with Judy, if more had created items for her - but the masses never really supported her and she got "killed" by V3.
Sadly I can see the same thing happening with Jessie after the initial excitement dies down, unless merchants support her.
Message edited on: 04/28/2005 00:35
The supreme irony of life is that hardly anyone gets out of
it alive.
Robert A. Heinlein
11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-11900K @ 3.50GHz 3.50 GHz
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Geforce RTX 3060 12 GB
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momodot posted Thu, 28 April 2005 at 8:55 AM
stahlratte, I dial, I use dozens of magnets, I sculpt in outside applications... the problem for me is I find that most figures other than Posette and Victoria 1/2 just totally break apart if you try to deform other than by spinning dials. I can't even do much with scaling on the new figures, they blow apart... the scale chanel ERC tears the figures up... I have tried to cut them out of the .cr2 and I have tried reboning but I have not succeded at either. Even using the built in figure scaling pre-sets (Adult, Ideal, Heroic) tear figures apart on my system when applied to late model figures. QUESTION: Where are the P6 figure geometries? I have not found were they live yet though my figures work just fine.
momodot posted Thu, 28 April 2005 at 8:58 AM
What is sad is that Judy was a good mesh, and with the Face Room default head is quite nice looking, but I think that mosterous Roswelian Judy face kept people from even loading the figure for fear of damaging their keyboards with thier stomach contents ;)
stahlratte, the first image of all the body types is realy impressive.
Oh, and to be honest, when I see Jessie I think: Hive Mother... honestly, I'm not being mean... it just pops right into my head... but it seems she has many fans.
Message edited on: 04/28/2005 09:03
FishNose posted Thu, 28 April 2005 at 10:28 AM
Stahlratte - The little skinny one - is that your Blue Fairy? Nea is all round remarkable, seems very versatile indeed. Spanki - Very impressive. I don't think you need to do anything to her calves - they look fine. Too many of the meshes around have huge tennis calves - Jessi is a sad example. She has so much 'def' she's totally unusable. Very sad since she has a usable face. :] Fish
bnetta posted Thu, 28 April 2005 at 1:48 PM
where's sara,laroo,alex,lala, girl, her, akio?? or don't cartoon gals count..lol
Spanki posted Thu, 28 April 2005 at 2:21 PM
I think the initial focus was on lifelikeness/anitomical correctness of the models mentioned.
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stahlratte posted Thu, 28 April 2005 at 3:23 PM
"Stahlratte - The little skinny one - is that your Blue Fairy?"
Umm,...not really, but...
Lets say stuff happens when you make a male Fae for your Fairy folk. You might end up with more than youve started with. ;-)
Just wanted to see if I could push NEAs shape in a convincingly male shape that was still different from Dork`s body.
The LilOne then was a natural development, as Im not too fond of both PS- and PT-Girl and Boys default shapes.
(Kids of that age shouldnt have boobs. LOL)
stahlratte
stahlratte posted Thu, 28 April 2005 at 3:40 PM
@momodot: I completely agree, the more refined the default shape, the harder it is to change it. And the more complicated the setup, the easier the mesh is going to break. Also if you do more radical changes, you most likely will have to change joint parameters, and/or create erc morphs to compensate deformations. (Two things I still have to learn) So to me at the moment NEA and V2 are the most versatile, too, thats why I prefer to use them. Thanks to adavyss Injection NEA I also can work with three or four NEA meshes at the same time without my lowly computer choking. :-) stahlratte
momodot posted Fri, 20 May 2005 at 10:17 AM
momodot posted Fri, 20 May 2005 at 10:21 AM
Looking over the images of this thread Lory actually looks like a great piece of realism. But the head is limited?
Acadia posted Fri, 20 May 2005 at 4:44 PM
Gah! That first image in this thread is scarey!!!! The last 2 on the right look like aliens. One of the others looks like a transexual, the first one looks like it's 1/2 alien..... The last picture in this thread.... V2 looks the most realistic of all.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
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are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
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heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
xantor posted Sat, 21 May 2005 at 10:21 AM
Elizabyte posette is quite realistic, apart from the wide chest area at the back. Quick reply by xantor. :)
vilian posted Sat, 28 May 2005 at 8:33 AM
gasp Jessie does look here like an alien. She's scary. It's the first time I'm glad I couldn't afford P4 to P6 upgrade - she would probably kill and eat all those poor female figures like Sara, MayaDoll or even Furrette :D Edited: My mistake, Furrette got teeth and claws, she would defend herself :)
Message edited on: 05/28/2005 08:34
Outdated gallery over at DeviantArt
Fics at FanFiction.net and Archive of Our Own (AO3)
hauksdottir posted Mon, 30 May 2005 at 9:18 PM
It's only the angle of her head. If you lift the chin, she looks just fine.
momodot posted Tue, 31 May 2005 at 4:07 PM
Jessie needs much more help than that IMHO. I saw a thread at Poserpro where the auther made her look beautiful... maybe a little Jennifer Garnerish? Stehanie 1 like? by using magnets to bring her face closer to the ideal as shown in Jack Hamm's Drawing the Head and Figure (fantastic $6 book). The bottom line was widening the mouth, pulling the whole nose area up and pulling in the crown and back of the head. Just showed the base Jessie to my spouse and she said it looked totaly mechanical and insectile. She like V2 and V3 but has not seen SP3. She is writing an academic paper on Manga/Anime and she things Jessie is definatly toon though not quite anime. The most perfectist figure I have seen is the one Seraphina is building from scratch... just amazing. Utterly amazing. It is somewher in productshow case or developer forums, the former I think. The figure is so excelent. I don't think I will be satisfied with anything other than SP3 but I can't see ever buying it unless they slash the cost of the base and morphs by half... I would be VERY happy with a reduced price reduced resolution version! I like Seraphina but it is tall and beautiful and I want "real wold". Has anyone tried the Aon figures? Can someone post a comparison image? Do they have a god range for morphing individualism? What is so great about Seraphina's figure is it is good looking but has no peculiar feature that would interfear with doing character morphs.
Casette posted Wed, 01 June 2005 at 2:03 AM
momodot, link to this Poserpros thread? (insectile??? :O )
CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"
momodot posted Wed, 01 June 2005 at 3:25 AM
Casette posted Wed, 01 June 2005 at 6:23 AM
Thanks for the tip, Daniel. She looks great, and impressive work of Xena BTW, Ive discovered Danger Girls :D
CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"