Well, youve locked yet another thread today, would you like to explain your reason other than stating it was getting out of hand? Was it the mention of marijuana, or was it the easy women? Perhaps it was the mention of the OP claiming to have been institutionalized? You know, SndCastie, it is people like you who are slowly killing this web site. I realize you may have experienced a rather tidy life and all, including rose-colored glasses, and that you probably think individuals like me are disgusting perverts who have no place in society, let alone Renderosity, but let me explain a few things about me My wife and I each year donate no less than $50,000 to charitable organizations within the metro Portland area, as well as to specific organizations in South Africa. I, on average, donate 300 hours each year to Habitat for Humanity in the way of labor and administrative tasks. My wife donates time and money to various womens causes throughout the western United States. We also host foreign exchange students. We are actively involved in various other forms of community effort, including private funding of programs to help adults overcome illiteracy, and to assist in programs to help at-risk youth. I apologize if you were offended by your quick glance at my personal life, but in reality, everyone has a story to tell and not all stories will be savory to people like you. There was really nothing unsavory about it. Within the generation I grew up in, it was pretty much the norm. I find your indiscriminate use of censuring without intelligently written cause rather alarming. I suspect you do such things out of sheer ignorance; you fail to think before you act. Youre as close to the Kim Jong Il regime as one can get without actually being there. This is not an attack, it is my viewpoint. What Id really like to see happen here is Tim posting a reply, explaining just what the hell it is hes trying to achieve here by allowing you to rampantly run throughout the forums locking threads like a deranged angel with a sword in one hand and a Bible in the other. There must be a motive here, and whatever the motive it sure as hell doesnt mesh with the philosophies of other major art forums. Once again, I apologize if you were somehow morally offended. Now if youll excuse me, Im off to peruse the R rated Renderosity Poser gallery in search of boobs, asses and vulvas while I await Tims reply. I could be there forever.

You need to take it down a few notches, pal. This website is about people co-operating, getting along, acting with some level of maturity and respect for others, and you show no inclination to do any of that.

"...and you show no inclination to do any of that." Oh? Show me where, pal.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=2237165

Another thread was closed because, as far as I can tell, someone posted an image of a product from Renderosity that is CLEARLY poor quality, has never been fixed, and is still being sold. In case the thread gets deleted, this is what the person said about the product:

After I purchased this V2 texture in the RMP, I sent the merchant an e-mail with a screen shot similar to this one. I received an e-mail from the merchant informing me that they were too busy with other projects at the moment, but would upload a fix to the marketplace when they had the time. Well that felt too much like a brush-off, but no biggie...and I kept quiet about it. Needless to say, the merchant landed on my no-buy-from list. Today I remembered this V2 texture, and out of curiosity downloaded it from my purchase history to see if the merchant ever fixed it. As you can see in this render, apparently not. And you know what? This product is still in the marketplace for sale... people are buying it and have been, for three (3) years.

Link attached, image and lock is at the bottom. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

I am not a big fan of locking threads, but if they are going to be locked it might be nice if there was actually a valid reason giving for locking them other than "cause I can".

The 2 threads that were locked today weren't even particularly volitile, IMO and no reason was given that I could see.

This appears to be a case of being "drunk on power" and I suspect that while a few members may be cheering, the majority aren't.

I am pretty close to just not coming here anymore, not that the PTB will care since I already refuse to spend any money here based on their uneven enforcment practices that have only gotten worse in the 2 years I've been a member.

However, if stuff like this continues people who actually do spend money here will find more and more reasons to go elsewhere to spend that money.

I imagine this thread will be locked any moment as well, shall we start a pool on how long it takes? ;)

TerraDreamer if you have a problem with me feel free to contact Stacey at StaceyG@renderosity.com as for why I locked this thread is we have explained why we closed down the third OT forum and will not open another one. We gave it 3 tries and they all ended the same with name calling and political wars. This community is for artist and we would rather spend the time helping them then spending all our time breaking up fights. As for the other thread we have already given our views on that subject.

SndCastie
Community Admin

Message edited on: 05/01/2005 23:56

Sandy
An imagination can create wonderful things

SndCastie's Little Haven

Better lock this one, too, just for good measure. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

I would like to know why the thread was locked down containing the image in it. The only explanation of why it was in the thread itself, that I see, is as follows: "38. Re: New Blather Up... by SndCastie on 5/1/05 16:06 Ok this thread is being Locked down. SndCastie Community Admin " Sndcastie I see here, that you have said it was explained three times over, but I must have missed it, so why was it? Perhaps you could tell us a fourth time and we'll all get the message this time.LOL

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" ~George Orwell

Re: Once again, SndCastie swings her indiscriminate morality axe by elizabyte on 5/1/05 23:57 Better lock this one, too, just for good measure. bonni Too late! I already got in on it! LOL

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" ~George Orwell

The PTB have said they won't host any discussion of an off-site review system. Period. They don't support it, and won't allow people to discuss it (partly because they expect it to turn into a "merchant bashing party", I suspect). As for the image in that thread, well, it WOULD be nice to hear WHY Renderosity is still allowing that product to be sold, and why nobody's allowed to talk about it. listening for the jangling of the keys bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

The problem with locking threads too quickly is sometimes it doesn't even give folks a chance to respond. There was a huge misunderstanding in one of the locked threads as I assumed my own addition was taken the wrong way. I couldn't even reply quick enough to something that could have been volatile but actually was NOT! Sad that we had to resolve things in IM rather than be able to discuss it further. Makes it look like the thread was locked because of the same reason I thought, yet there wasn't anything to get ruffled about, it was only a misunderstanding and not even that. Sad that as artists who need to express and be unique enough to be ourselves, we cannot even hope to communicate amongst one another not knowing whether in the next moment whatever we may discuss or say may be taen out of context by whomever is on Mount Zeus for the moment and we will be cut off.. Lately it would appear as if the only people on this forum that can have any constant views and expressions that matter here are XENOPHONZ and dialyn, and they certainly are vocal with their freedom to speaketh whenever. Amazing what a little confidence in being allowed to say whatever and whenever you want can nourish while the rest of us have to walk on eggshells or be wary of those timely shackles.

The PTB have said they won't host any discussion of an off-site review system. Period. They don't support it, and won't allow people to discuss it

Well, I really hope that this attitude will bite them in the ass. Nothing is more exciting than something forbidden.

You know what is right for you. I know what is right for me.

Considering the rather intemperate statements over at PoserPros involving what pieces of anatomy can be inserted where, I can understand why the mods here don't want the same sort of explicit personal attacks. Interrogation and examination by grenade launcher may reveal interesting bits, but it is also extremely destructive to the noncombattants. Pengi has his own site, let him blather away... but does he HAVE to spam all of the other sites as well? Does the entire universe need to be involved in his latest career? Each site is different. Each site has rules which hopefully allow the site to function according to stated purposes. If you don't like the rules of this site, find another which allows you to say what you want, or build your own website. Carolly

Hi bonni, I will get in tough with bshafer about the product they are having problems with. I was not aware of the problem until just now. Thanks for the information. Clint

Clint Hawkins
MarketPlace Manager/Copyright Agent

---

All my life I've been over the top ... I don't know what I'm doing ... All I know is I don't wana stop!
(Zakk Wylde (2007))

---

Clint addressed the product bonni had a question on, other than that, I see no good coming out of this thread. We did explain our position on the "review system" thread and as we thought, it went downhill fast. This new thread in the Poser Forum was nothing more than a thread of the same subject with a different title. When we lock a thread it is done for a reason and if another gets started on the same subject the chances are great that it will go down the same negative path, then it will be locked as well. Stacey Community Manager

Attached Link: Whack!

"*...as for why I locked this thread is we have explained why we closed down the third OT forum and will not open another one.*"

I didn't ask you to open an OT forum, I asked you why you chose to close the thread in the link above. You stated the thread was getting out of hand. I would like you to point out specifically where the thread was getting out of hand, rather than use your typical canned response.

"We gave it 3 tries and they all ended the same with name calling and political wars."

Then I submit you're doing something wrong. As much as I can't stand DAZ, they at least use intelligence when moderating a forum, and because of that, they receive far better respect from the forum members.

"This community is for artist and we would rather spend the time helping them [spend money] then spending all our time breaking up fights."

I visit three forums here on a regular basis; Terragen, Poser and Vue. It is a rare day that I see a moderator helping an artist. What I DO see is forum members helping other forum members with specific technical questions. I will add that I see more technical assistance from the coordinators than I do forum mods. As a matter of fact, I know of one moderator at one of the forums I mentioned go TEN DAYS without showing up to keep the ball rolling and help create enthusiasm within. The coordinator there does a much better job.

IMHO, the duty of a Renderosity moderator is to quickly censor content that may either compromise the revenue of this web site, or to censor content that the moderator may find personally unappealing, without giving thought to those currently participating. In other words, if you don't like it, then you're going to lock it, even if there is no conflict. It is an abuse of power, as well as the censure of criticism of certain products sold here.

"Lately it would appear as if the only people on this forum that can have any constant views and expressions that matter here are XENOPHONZ and dialyn, and they certainly are vocal with their freedom to speaketh whenever."

Think Sheep.

You know, SndCastie, it is people like you who are slowly killing this web site.

Show me any real evidence that this site is being "slowly killed" -- something beyond mere personal anecdotes -- and then I might consider your premise.

Otherwise, it's just hyperbolic "blather" -- a tres chic word these days.

If anything, this site just keeps right on growing.

Man, oh man -- I wish that I had a nickel for every hysterically dire prediction of Rendo's impending doom that I've heard over the years. I'd be a very rich man today.

This ain't your daddy's Rendo anymore. Better get used to it. Because it's not going back again.

Sure, I'll pop into places where the unending fight still goes on.

But as I get older, I'm finding that constant teenage-level squabbling just doesn't entertain me as it once did.

I've come to develop an appreciation for the muse of the locked thread. It's a true art form. And it requires a certain level of balanced expertise to handle it properly. It isn't easy to do.

Hey -- even Tiger Woods has had his off days.

The people that run Rendo are just that -- people. Not a bunch of evil tyrants out to spoil the joy of describing unsupervised adolescent behavior to us.

---

BTW -- I've seen the "joy" created in the later years of the lives of the girls who once "knew what to expect" when they were younger.

Boys can usually walk away from the long-term effects. At least in the "short-term long-term".

But girls usually can't. In spite of certain PC thinking to the contrary..........

Regret isn't an easy thing to deal with 20 years later. It can eat away at a person.

But the boys can always be proud of what they did. It was fun. And a great source of braggin' rights. Notches on the 'ol gun.

Like tears.

Adult matters should be handled by adults. Not by kids. And teenagers are kids.

---

Note to the admins at Rendo:

Lock away.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Think Sheep. He don't know me very well, do he........?

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Can someone find the off switch for TerraScreamer please.

Lately it would appear as if the only people on this forum that can have any constant views and expressions that matter here are XENOPHONZ and dialyn, and they certainly are vocal with their freedom to speaketh whenever.
Amazing what a little confidence in being allowed to say whatever and whenever you want can nourish while the rest of us have to walk on eggshells or be wary of those timely shackles.

I (and others) don't have any special privileges around here. And Rendo doesn't always do what I think that they should.

Sometimes, I even disagree strongly with something that the administration has done.

Big deal. My day isn't ruined if a contentious thread gets locked or deleted. Or if the TOS gets changed to answer some new brouhaha du jour or other.

It's just that the admins can expect certain of us to be.......relatively reasonable. Within limits, anyway.

It doesn't require a lot to grasp the difference.

If one can learn how to disagree without being a total "forum jerk" in the process...........

Treat people with at least a tiny amount of respect. Including admins. Admins are people.

You tend to get what you give.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Amazing how it works that way.........

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Oh, and BTW again........

I wonder how good it would feel if one of the girls that "knows what to expect" was one's daughter.......?

Just a thought.

;|

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

At least now we know. Anybody who has the impudence to disagree with Terra is a "sheep".

Not a very smart way to win friends and influence people. But I can think of one way that would promote Terra to legendary status: donate $50,000 to the merchants here, so they can distribute some of their excellent items to the less wealthy members here.

Baa Baa Baa Baa.... I have had the pleasure of working with SndCastie, and I have never known her to be indiscriminate. You may not see all the thinking that goes behind decisions around here, but I do know SndCastie is a thoughtful person. It is absolutely impossible to please everyone in a place this large. The slippery slope is when you try to please one person at the expense of many people. The majority of the conversation probably doesn't happen on these forums. We on the forums don't have the big picture. Hugs to SndCastie and the administrators, moderators and coordinators. I admire your calm, and would not want your task. Thank you for continuing to do an excellent job. I may not agree with all the decisions...that's not the point. I respect the fact that you make a decision and stand by your people is something I don't see often in these pandering times.

Thank you dialyn I enjoyed working with you too. :O) SndCastie

Sandy
An imagination can create wonderful things

SndCastie's Little Haven

Thank you dialyn. You are absolutely correct about Sandy, she is a very thoughtful person and does an outstanding job. Stacey

"Show me any real evidence that this site is being "slowly killed" -- something beyond mere personal anecdotes -- and then I might consider your premise" there are quite a few "older" members of this site who have either left, or, for the most part merely "lurk". granted, many of them were strongly opinionated. however, these same folks were highly creative, and used to freely help others in forums. personally, i think by losing them rendo has lost a vast knowledge base. and, that is not just in the poser forum....many in the lw community no longer actively participate. rendo seems to be headed in the "all newbie, all the time" direction....from the forums to the marketplace. that cannot be good in the long term for this place. so, for those of you I don't see much of anymore....a cheery little.... Pop...Pop...Poppi!!!

Lol to Poppi! Talk about popping you just made my boobs pop out with laughing at your pops! I really do have to get a new bra.

sigh....there was a time when i was always poppin! :*)

there are quite a few "older" members of this site who have either left, or, for the most part merely "lurk".

I don't know exactly how many "quite a few" is.....but I can see the surfer counter at the top of my webpage.

It's not getting smaller. It does, however -- seem to be headed in the opposite direction. Much, much larger than it was in the old days.

In addition to which: people always come and go. It's simply a matter of natural attrition. Some people move on to greener pastures. Others get bored with the entire Poser hobby and quit. Still others disappear for who-knows-what reasons.

If you were able to get a "time-warp modem" and visit this website as it will look five years into the future, then you will not recognize many of the names on the rolls..........

As our grandparents learned in their day: change is inevitable. As is a turnover in membership through the years. It's often sad to other long-term members -- but there it is.

Kind of like the place where the old neighborhood dime store used to stand. Now it's gone.

---

All that I can go by is the empirical evidence that can actually be verified and quantified.

Renderosity isn't shrinking. Perhaps the day will come when it will.......but not today. And certainly not when it's compared with other sites that have chosen a different management philosophy.

Not that the methods of those other sites are invalid.

But one can only judge results by results. Not by what one's ideology insists "should" be the case.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Others get bored with the entire Poser hobby and quit. Still others disappear for who-knows-what reasons. no, the folks i am thinking of participate at other sites...and show up, here, occasionally.... more is not necessarily "better". what i see is more and more newbies...and, a slew of folks who had the "know how" that are missing. actually, a few of them have been a bit vocal over the "blather" threads that got locked...so, they are just lurking, here, i guess.

Everyone had to be a new person at one time or another. From the new people come the future experts. What's wrong with that? I'm personally hoping Dr. Geep clones himself so he continues with us eternally.

I second that dialyn :O)

Sandy
An imagination can create wonderful things

SndCastie's Little Haven

no, the folks i am thinking of participate at other sites...and show up, here, occasionally....

Then that's good for the other sites.

I have nothing against other sites. Or against the people that frequent them. I pop in from time to time myself.

However -- a couple of dozen individuals -- no matter how skilled -- don't come anywhere near representing a major portion of this site's membership.

Even one or two hundred departing would have a negliable impact overall.

Not that anyone needs to go away. But if they choose to do so, then that's their option.

more is not necessarily "better".

That depends upon one's point of view.

If I were a site owner, then I'd say that bigger was better.

---

As for "helpful" and "knowledgeable" -- we've got plenty of 'em right here.

Dr. Geep being one famous example.

But there are many others.

So, we lack for nothing from that perspective. Message edited on: 05/02/2005 17:29

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Don't sell 'em short, Poppi. There are plenty of knowledgeable experts here, generous in their advice and help. However, you (or others) have often used that refrain about the old pros and the annoying, uppity newbies in a way that implies you guys think some are more equal than others. Why not give the newbies the benefit of the doubt? Give them a chance to learn, to show their stuff, without any baggage of "the good old days" or any guilt-trips to try to put them in their place.

I wish to thank all of you who have stood up for this site. I know our members are some of the best around who are willing to give of their time to help other members in what ever they do. So Please accept this Thank you and a Big Hug to all of you. SndCastie Community Admin

Sandy
An imagination can create wonderful things

SndCastie's Little Haven

Things have changed though. I remember when people would say "thanks" when you spent the time to help them. People don't bother anymore. They take the help and walk as if you owed it to them.
The poser forum used to be more comunity friendly but thanks to one person, no more personal discussions, period. So yes, it has changed.

...... Kendra

Crossposted with you SndCastie, I do with the admins would realize sometimes that those of us who have been here awhile and appear to disagree with the different changes really do want the same things. To make this site better. Some changes are not for the better.

...... Kendra

I remember when people would say "thanks" when you spent the time to help them. People don't bother anymore.

I've experienced this. In real life as well as in the forums.

People are rude. And sometimes ungrateful. And sometimes vicious.

I don't think that Rendo holds a monopoly on these negative human traits.

But I think that they are attempting to do certain things to keep as much of a lid on it as possible.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

That's a pretty sweeping generalization. I have had people thank me for my sad little bits of information. It's not everyone here that is thoughtless...just some. Not all. Not everyone is new. Not everyone is old. Not everyone is impolite. Not everyone is courteous. The forum can have a different tone from day to day, hour to hour. It's not all good, but it's not all bad. Has it occurred to any of you that maybe the biggest change isn't in the forum but in you? I know I've had a lot of changes in the last year that are reflected in how much I will (or won't) participate in the forums. It isn't the forum that is the difference. It's how I come to it. Just a thought.

Newbies are fine, but there's something to be said when a site and it's new vocal members no longer cherish devotion and are actually very vocal about it. There is a great loss. Value. Kendra above says it all too well. "Some changes are not for the better." You newbies may not see it, and the folks running the site are too busy to care and most of them are actually new as well, so perhaps they themselves feel that same attitude XENOPHONZ and dialyn seem to have and probably just want to follow instructions and do what have to. *********************************************************** This site took years to build on old ideas. It may take years to fizzle with this new attitude of "I don't care or give a damn" and "me, me, me is really all that matters and as long as I am here, what do I care who leaves or who comes." A big part of this place has already died when a site is basically dependant upon it's newbies with attitude and and old lurkers who no longer participate except as forgotten clones. There's very little substance left except for what money can buy, and even that seems questionable at times according to some blathermouths.

"Has it occurred to any of you that maybe the biggest change isn't in the forum but in you?" Yes. For certain there is a BIG change in far too many people. Just ask all the folks who have lost their inspirations. ******************************************************** Explains why many of us have no galleries.

Yes it took years to build and I have been here since the begining and have watched it grow. I have not locked down this topic as we have been discussing it in a civil manor without name calling lets keep it that way. SndCastie Community Admin.

Sandy
An imagination can create wonderful things

SndCastie's Little Haven

so perhaps they themselves feel that same attitude XENOPHONZ and dialyn seem to have and probably just want to follow instructions and do what have to.

I can't speak for others -- but I can speak for myself.

I've never been a follower. As some can attest -- to their dismay.

But I do have enough mental acuity to recognize when and where I happen to agree with someone else.

And I agree with much of what Renderosity has done for themselves. Not all of it, but the majority of it.

Because I have a grasp of their reasoning.

An agreement between allies is not the same thing as a leader/follower type of relationship.

Attempts are often made to somehow lessen or to invalidate my positions by bringing in the spurious accusation of "doing what one is told".

At least in my case, you have no concept of just what an utterly ridiculous charge that is.............

---

There are other types of sites with other types of purposes. Those sites cater to a different demographic.

So those sites set things up in such a way as to appeal to their target demographic.

It's purely a business matter. And not a matter of pure ideology.

---

It may take years to fizzle with this new attitude of "I don't care or give a damn" and "me, me, me is really all that matters and as long as I am here, what do I care who leaves or who comes."

Once again -- THERE IS NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE OF ANYTHING "FIZZLING".

Other than in the wishful thinking of some.

As for "all that matters is me".......I don't really follow where that one is coming from. I confess that it's somewhat of a mystery.

The only individuals that I see jumping up and down and yelling "ME! ME! ME!" are those persons that show a desire for nothing but their own way.

And not those of us who believe in following the House rules......of whoever's house we happen to visit.

It's the difference between an adult disagreement and a childish tantrum.

The child is the one that screams when he/she doesn't get their own way.........or (in some cases) adult children are known to do a lot of screaming, too.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I have no desire to see this site end or reach any demise, and I know most older members feel the same. Perhaps that is why some of us are trying, attempting to show some 'concern'. I mayself am not that old here, but I have seen enough and heard enough and researched enough just following some threads and run into my own share of disappointments i my time here to establish what is being 'writing on the wall.' I also don't wish to call anyone any names, last thing on my mind, so the 'threat of lock and key' was not necessary. Merely having a discussion. Be nice to be allowed to have more civil ones like these without dark clouds overhead ready to strike.

"There's very little substance left except for what money can buy, and even that seems questionable at times according to some blathermouths." Sorry if I took this the wrong way just wanted to make sure we stay on track here. SndCastie

Sandy
An imagination can create wonderful things

SndCastie's Little Haven

I don't know exactly how many "quite a few" is.....but I can see the surfer counter at the top of my webpage. It's not getting smaller. That means absolutely nothing, that counters been saying the same thing for the past five or so years I have been a member here under one alias or another.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" ~George Orwell

Logging out for a few hours.

It will be interesting to come back and see where this discussion has gone in the meantime.

---

Perhaps that is why some of us are trying, attempting to show some 'concern'.

I have no problems with that. Or with the expression of those concerns in the forums.

Where this activity leads to difficulties is when people are totally unwilling to accept anything but their own way. As if they owned the site themselves -- and should therefore be writing site policy.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

that counters been saying the same thing for the past five or so years

I don't have the time to do this at the moment -- but there are several independent website traffic-tracking entities/companies that have nothing to do with Renderosity. But you can compare Rendo's traffic with that of other Poser-related websites.

It can be instructive to check these independent figures out.

The only site that's even close to Renderosity in terms of traffic is DAZ.

In addition to which: I don't know what counter you've been seeing over the past five years -- but it sure isn't the same one that I've been seeing.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

"Sorry if I took this the wrong way just wanted to make sure we stay on track here." I can always hope I am wrong about the 'substance' part, but the 'blathermouths' part comes from threads called 'blather ups' I've been following that have been getting locked. I voiced my own concerns on one before it was disposed of, I don't necessarily agree with the methodology and think it's a major form of seeking attention at the price of others by the blatherer. There are better ways to attain quality and substance in things we buy than to witchunt and tar and feather a few marketers while they are not looking. Just as there are better ways to have a more relaxed forum that people can come to without feeling uneasy and like they are being chapperoned every moment. There's a always a few bad apples. Why do so many have to pay and be made an example of because of those few. I disagree with dialyn. It is not the people that have changed at all; the forum has changed and the forum is trying to change the people with it to conform to those changes, or else. Forgetting and taking away so much of what the people enjoy along the way is what is sadly missing. Sometimes I think one main misunderstanding here is the moment some of us speak of something perhaps not being right or have a differing viewpoint that is not wanted to be heard about, it is quickly misundertood.

You can, of course, disagree with me. And if you don't want to believe you've changed, then bless be you for stopping the aging process. But you can not speak for me....and I have changed. And the reason I took down my gallery has nothing to do with changes on the forums, and everything to do with changes in myself. Good night all. Have fun.

XENOPHONZ, someone that has been here for a while and knows a lot more than me once answered a question I asked. Why are there so many folks here, especially when the numbers of online people just don't match up? He told me it also counts sessions or how many windows members may have open at once. Apparently there are some that browse with twenty or more windows open on this site at once, darn I wish what they all look at?? Perhaps that explains why poser 6 has such memory problems if too many folks have so many windows open here that they use up all their ram browsing here while rendering, LOL!! Never know, it's a possibility? Another rumor is that sessions never die once a member visits until they actually log out or something resets itself on the servers, therefore the membership grows and grows and grows till it falls back again. One thing I have noticed though; whenever XENOPHONZ is on, notice the membership increases in size tenfold?? Some people just attract the masses!! One evening there were over four thousand attracted, biggest number I've seen here in some time!!

Lorna, Just for the record I want to state that the site membership has grown by leaps and bounds over the 3 years I have been here. There is a continual steady increase of new members. Even taking away clones or any other factors, the increase is still dramatic. If you go to the drop down menu that says Renderosity Info and click on the "about us", it shows a lot of good statistics on Renderosity and this page is updated quite frequently. There will always be some members that for various reasons leave and always new members joining. Overall the growth is very very good. In a community this size its impossible to keep every member happy with every decision/change and we realize that. But contrary to what some people think, we only want the best for all members of this community. Its a very hard balance but we do the best we can. Thanks, Stacey Community Manager

I won't underestimate the growth here, seen that myself, and that's good, but the number does fluctuate largely at times which is confusing if I let it bother me. It doesn't. I have no problem with this site growing. I don't have no problem with a few troublemakers being kept in line to allow the more to be here in comfort and ease. What bothers me is that it seems far too often that the more need to conform to a few here and I have seen times when some troublemakers can trouble all they want while others either get chopped up quickly or just disappear. Rumor has it they get swooped up by internet aliens and are experimented upon and then squished up and made into 3d putty and sold at turbosquid as 'allsorts.' Kidding!! Speaking of aliens, ever watch Star Trek? I liked the idea of that Mr. Spock and those Vulcans. Was a real nice different side to all that emotional stuff among those humans and such. But would I as a human being want to live among a bunch of vulcans only? Yikes, no way!! This place is starting to remind me of a site full of strict vulcan types, because the emotions are/have been taken away and are disallowed; and with artistic, creative people, how can that help any 'art site' develop?? But, even vulcanites had creative sides and musical stimulie on that show, so perhaps I should compare this more to the Romulans..they are really cold and bold.

The borg, the borg!! Almost forgot about that bunch! No, I won't say it..

Thanks for the response regarding that product. It surely did look like that thread was locked because of that, though, and I'm not the only one who "read" it that way. I'm pleasantly surprised to see that this thread is still unlocked, though... bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

"I'm pleasantly surprised to see that this thread is still unlocked, though..." Me too. Finally I'm relaxed enough to do my nails while responding here at ease. Maybe next time I can even do my toenails too, lol! So while we're still here, let's have some fun? How many Renderositans does it take to make up a forum? None; there's lots of empty or near empty forums on the net. It takes a forum to attract a bunch of Renderositans and give them reasons to stay and keep more coming to make it and keep it the succesfully inhabited forum it is.

but the number does fluctuate largely at times

I believe that this phenomenon has a lot to do with time zones.

When it's daylight in Southeast Asia, it's the middle of the night in the US. And even across the contiguous 48 states there's a three hour time difference from coast to coast.

I suspect that a plurality of Renderosity's members live on the East Coast of the United States. While I am a night owl -- and I might post something in here at 2:30 in the morning my time (EST) -- most people are in bed at that hour. And 2:30AM for me is only 11:30PM on the West Coast.

So -- at certain time periods GMT 65% or more of Renderosity's membership is likely asleep.

And even us forumites don't spend all of our time hanging around here..........

It's not really surprising that the number of members/visitors online at any given time will fluctuate.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

The migraine was especially bad this morning and I couldn't sleep... so went over to PoserPros and watched the train wreckage mount up in the Coop until Cin put a temporary blanket over the smoldering fumes. If you wonder why the threads were locked here... just go over there and read the posts. "Nature red in tooth and claw" isn't as foul and vituperative as the concepts expressed when attacking each other. And for what? Nothing that any of them says will affect the matter at hand... but people will remember what was said and by whom and how often. Wounds fester. Moderating is a delicate balancing act, and each forum has to choose what is allowed. Unless you have moderated, or run your own website, you really don't know what is involved with each decision. We are actually fortunate here to have so many reasonable people on staff. As to those people complaining that the old-timers aren't around being helpful... huh? It isn't just Dr Geep! Little Dragon, Ockham, Ajax, Anton, Steve, Jim, etc., all are fixing things, writing scripts, answering questions, pointing to resources, or explaining mysteries as they uncover them. The wealth of this community IS the shared knowledge base! Carolly

Moderating is a delicate balancing act

hauksdottir --

You and I disagree on a lot of stuff.

We also agree on a lot of stuff.

Odd sort of synergy, that.

---

The migraine was especially bad this morning and I couldn't sleep... so went over to PoserPros and watched the train wreckage mount up in the Coop until Cin put a temporary blanket over the smoldering fumes

I'm not sure that I would want to spend my time watching a bout of "eXtreme Fighting" if I was suffering from a migrane.

BTW -- my sister gets migranes. She says that she can feel them coming on.

She's found that she can head them off by immediately going to bed when she senses the approach of a migrane. "Sleeping it away" has proven to be the best cure for her.

I hope that you feel better soon.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

*"The borg, the borg!!
Almost forgot about that bunch!

No, I won't say it.."*

I won't either. :)

I know not everyone ignores the helpfullness but I'm not the only one to notice it. It is happening more and more to the point where I don't like to offer anything and when I do I know what to expect. Nothing, the majority of the time.

And the changes can't be blamed comletely on the individuals. There is no more community spirit when any conversations not related to poser are not allowed where they previously were. Threads are getting locked on the assumption that they will turn into something not because they turned into something.
I know a lot of people can't handle the way poserpros operates but if they paid attention, Keith asked for a 24 hour time out in two threads and guess what... he's getting it... and without having to lock them. This is because they let conversations take their course and the members respect that and can respect his wishes. (a point certain people might want to consider)

It's a lot more too. It's mods making mistakes and not owning up to them, that has been happening more and more in the last year alone. It was a surprise when a contest entry that shouldn't have been deleted was re-instated so there is hope that we're in for a turn-around. It's members getting warnings for "personal attacks" while certain members do the same damn thing only more subtle and have been doing it for years.

And yes, the marketplace does need some cleaning up. I don't know one merchant, even at the top of the list, who couldn't use some improvement. If people would stop and actually listen to what's being said they may just find the marketplace, all of them, in better condition. I know I'm listening.

...... Kendra

It isn't just Dr Geep! You are 100% correct -- there are many. But I wouldn't want to attempt to formulate a comprehensive list. There's always the possibility of leaving someone out. This is a very big field here. Big enough for anyone to play in. And I am grateful to them all.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Hmmmmm..... I'm going to take a little side trip over to PP. You've gotten my curiosity up.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Keith asked for a 24 hour time out in two threads and guess what... he's getting it... and without having to lock them

shrug

During wartime, there are occasional cease-fires called by both sides.

That doesn't make it any less of a war.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Peace at all cost doesn't work. Sometimes people need to shout to be heard and while it may be messy, like I said, if people would listen more there is some good to be gleaned from it all.

...... Kendra

if people would listen more there is some good to be gleaned from it all.

Ain't it the truth?

---

It's virtually impossible to hear what someone else is saying when you are shouting.

And when you are in the middle of a crowd where everyone is shouting.........you can't hear them.

And they can't hear you, either.

We can call it a rose if we like.

But it is what it is. Not what we wish for it to be.

As has been mentioned already: people hold grudges.

---

A locked/deleted thread works.

It's allowing members to commit virtual manslaughter against one another -- or to engage in vicious personal assaults -- that doesn't work in the long term.

It's a system that eventually tears itself apart. And eats it's own. And what goes around, comes around. As we've seen.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

PPS -- whatever happened to the early-on comments about how the opening thread at Renderosity was heated; while the threads at other sites were "professional" and "intelligent" discussions?

I have a radical suggestion: perhaps the admins here at Rendo know EXACTLY what they are doing, and they fully realize how their actions apply to the long-term stability of this website. What a novel thought............

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

"I'm pleasantly surprised to see that this thread is still unlocked" Just put some keywords and EUREKA!.....

Stupidity also evolves!

"This community is for artist and we would rather spend the time helping them then spending all our time breaking up fights." Evidently those artists aren't supposed to have any intelligence or opinions, or if they do, they're not to be allowed to express them.

Talent is God's gift to you. Using it is your gift to God.

I know poserpros, been there, and as entertaining as it can be being able to say whatever we want there, it may be a bit too far off the edge, way too axe grinding and harsh and very low blow too many times. Where as this place is extreme one way, there you have the far off other extreme. Going back to my old star trek way of looking at it, no one wants to be a bunch of vulcans or the borg, but no one wants to be a bunch of ferengi's or klingons either. Well, I'm sure some do, but hey? Happy medium?? Lol!! Maybe there's an in between somewhere so that people can be allowed to be passionate enough, and communicate without killing each other at the same time?? We need a nice toilet place here or else the crap just builds up and builds up and eventually we just lose it all over, and that's not good at all. So why not let us have a toilet for silly sake??! We know there will always be someone that won't flush the toilet after taking their crap, always, always, and someone will always dribble all over, that's inevitable, and that stuff then causes others a real problem, sure. Perhaps only open that toilet when there's a plunger and cleaner handy, at certain time intervals?? There's an idea? Have you ever tried a time sensitive venting forum?? Maybe announce that at such and such a time Renderosity will allow folks to commnicate whatever may be on their minds as peacefully as possible, and then make that forum dissapear again till that same time again? Or just have it occasionally?? It's a start and far better and hopeful than nothing at all?!! And it has to be better all around than this? Now your getting nothing but disoriented pooper folks blathering all over and one locked moment after another, hey, it would keep it in a much better place then, no? Just a thought. And XENOPHONZ, the best headache medicine is bed and a dark room, but even better is a very relaxing place to be able to unwind and sometimes just knowing others have problems too and being able to relate to other folks can make us feel a little better in life and have easier headaches. Excuse me, I'm off to get dressed and run off to work before I'm late, and still have no make up on, yikes!

The idea that the defunct OT forum was full of attacks isn't correct. There existed some posts with personal attacks and other uncivilizated behaviours, but this posts were not so common.
The problem is that many threads, with a civilizated discussion performed in a educated way without any need of moderators intervention, were locked only due the theme of the discussion!
The personal attacks arguments are used only as an excuse for not allowing discussion of some "forbiden" affairs!

Message edited on: 05/03/2005 05:41

Message edited on: 05/03/2005 05:43

Stupidity also evolves!

How about if the mods and admins just randomly and arbitrarily lock threads, regardless of what the topic is, etc., and then people will just get so used to it, when they lock the threads for some actual reason, no one will complain! bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

Wait elizabyte... I thought they were already doing that. :P And some Monty Python- "We are all individuals!!!" "We are ALL individuals!!!" I'm not... ;)

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

As to those people complaining that the old-timers aren't around being helpful... huh? It isn't just Dr Geep! Little Dragon, Ockham, Ajax, Anton, Steve, Jim, etc., all are fixing things, writing scripts, answering questions, pointing to resources, or explaining mysteries as they uncover them. The wealth of this community IS the shared knowledge base! I've seen a little of Anton, but no Little Dragon, no Ajax, a tad of Jim....when he puts out a new supermodel....Where dmentia, Syyd, Traveler, (an occasional Blackhearted,Xena, Prime, Ironbear, Calypso, Rio, Picky, Steffyzz, DebbieM, Helen, ....and, on and on and on....i'm talking poser greats...in forum help, free stuff, market stuff....and, most importantly INSPIRATION. i am sorry, but i find little inspiration in the galleries, these days.....i first came here because of the free stuff...a long while back. i stayed because of the inspiration factor, and the learning factor. i don't want rosity to die....but, i really dislike the direction it is going. ALL OF US who come here should be able to find something of interest and appeal on any given day...shoot this place is certainly big enough....sadly, the the poser "greats" no longer find anything of interest here and have ceased to participate....so those of us "not so greats, but wanna be" folks are getting less and less of interest ourselves. sure, if i was 6 months into poser this place would rock....but, i've been there, done that and need a little more. i agree...Dr. Geep is a treasure....almost the only treasure that remains.

ScottA: "Can someone find the off switch for TerraScreamer please." Pure class. ...and XENO's too? Think of the bandwidth saving.

This is to funny :)

...and XENO's too? Think of the bandwidth saving. Too true, too true. Apply for an admin's job, lundqvist. Then you could ban me! And you'd only have to hear from people with whom you agree!

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

LornaW: "Talk about popping you just made my boobs pop out with laughing at your pops! I really do have to get a new bra." errr... great image... Okay. Back in the corner I go... kmw

......of course, we're all about the ideal of total "free speech", right? So long as it's speech that we want to hear. And that doesn't make us uncomfortable with our assumptions.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Great sheep image, Caly. I'm hungry...........

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Don't mind me...I'm just looking for the off switch to the ebot notifications.

LornaW: "One thing I have noticed though; whenever XENOPHONZ is on, notice the membership increases in size tenfold??" Hmmmm... fascinating. Just let me find Scully and I'll start looking into this... fox

LornaW: "We need a nice toilet place here or else the crap just builds up and builds up and eventually we just lose it all over, and that's not good at all. So why not let us have a toilet for silly sake??! We know there will always be someone that won't flush the toilet after taking their crap, always, always, and someone will always dribble all over, that's inevitable, and that stuff then causes others a real problem, sure. Perhaps only open that toilet when there's a plunger and cleaner handy, at certain time intervals?? There's an idea?" Great. You've killed that other great image I had of you. Just murdered the damned thing into a bloody pulp. thanx kmw

Attached Link: http://www.panikon.com/phurba/alteng/x.html

*Just let me find Scully and I'll start looking into this...*

Keep in mind that "XENO".......

Xen-, Xeno- - "Foreign or Strange." This takes the form of "xeno-" before a consonant and "xen-" before a vowel. It derives from the Greek "xen-" and "xeno-," combining forms of "xenos" = "foreigner, stranger."

"Xeno" can also be interpreted as "alien".

Just a thought.

;)

And of course, "PHONZ" was a really cool dude on an old sitcom. He always got the girls.

---

Of course, the name has absolutely nothing to do with an ancient Greek warrior/philosopher named Xenophon.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

So after my time at work I come back to find myself at awe; Someone has a picture of me with my giggling boobs popping outta my bra and likes that, but they don't like dirty toilets. XENO is enjoying his bandwidth space with a passion and enjoying his noteriety of several hundred folks coming to this forum just to read his answers even more. Poor dialyn doesn't want to hear anything anymore. Bonnie thinks it's all too funny all around and recommends an uncontrolled locking spree. Poppi makes some sense amidst her popping but no one bothers to listen to her pops or otherwise. I wasn't being sarcastic, I actually thought my time sensitive venting forum idea might be or lead to some sort of solution, or a start to an answer, an idea, and I could take it further, but something tells me no one is taking me serious here. In my silly way I'm trying to be a part of a solution here and certainly not a problem. I believe that if there could be some opportunity for compromise regarding all this, it could mean only good for this forum and more comfort to people growing here. I'm hoping that a part of the reason this thread has not been locked as yet is because maybe someone is listening with an open mind? Anyways, pardon me, gotta throw on some leftover chicken and vegetables, haven't eaten yet and my mouth is just watering..keyboard is a mess now..

XENO is enjoying his bandwidth space with a passion and enjoying his noteriety of several hundred folks coming to this forum just to read his answers even more.

YES! YES!

We'll be holding the next meeting of my fan club in the phone booth at the neighborhood 7-11 down the steet......

I think that they sell cheap fried chicken at the 7-11. So the get-together will be catered.

But you might have to settle for a hot dog. Or a package of cheese crackers.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Oh com'on, how about serving some vegetables too?! Maybe some nice salad?? I watch my health you know, and cheap fried chicken only goes to my boobs and my waist. Wouldn't want that now, I have enough trouble keeping abreast of things as it is! LOL!!

Time alloted threads might work, but a better idea would to only post ONCE. If you had to marshall your arguments into one coherent post, it might slow the back&forth bickering. You might also wait to post until others had, so you could do a proper refutation. If there is code in place to only allow one gallery upload within 24 hours, it shouldn't be too hard to have only 1 forum post in the same interval. Some people might wait until close to midnight in order to get 2 posts into a thread... but then they'd have to wait almost 2 days to post again. Some people might also make a bunch of clone accounts in order to argue with themselves, but they can already do that. Carolly

Some people might also make a bunch of clone accounts in order to argue with themselves, but they can already do that.

Why would anyone do a thing like that?

And who's that other guy, using my nick that way?

Hey! I saw it first!

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Oh, NO, now there's two XENOPHONZES! Get set for a heavy load of membership increases now! There's about to be ten thousand people here at once, can this forum handle that kind of immigration??! ******************************************************** Hopefully they read fast and leave before this place locks up under the weight of the internet fury of XENOPHONZ fan mayhem!!

Well how nice...blatent clone accounts..I was under the impression that RR frowned on that sort of behavior, unless a merchant used one account name for his store, and one for his public profile.. And wouldn't it be nice if we could all post what we wanted to say in 'one textbox' instead of stretching it out across 2 or 3 at a time? And Lorna, I'd give up if I were you..RR isn't about 'people' its about 'money'...and people having a place to chat about anything other than what they can sell here so RR profits, is not likely going to happen. Grumpy? Yea...that'd be me.

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Grumpy? Yea...that'd be me.

Yep.

I can stretch this post out to two or three text boxes -- if you like.

Occasionally, one might think of something that one had failed to mention in a prior post. Such things are known to occur.......

Perhaps I'll even get that other guy to chime in.

---

LornaW comes across as genuine.

She's able to play this game without rancor. That's a rare talent.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

(V3, Hair by Kozaburo) Regards- Lemurtek

Yes, exactly seeing it like I'm saying it..uummph!! Hmmmmppph!!!??? ..mmnnng!...mnnnng!!...nnnnnnnng!!!

Throw away the key!!!!!!

Stupidity also evolves!

Lemurtek, That's positively delightful! :)

"Poppi makes some sense amidst her popping but no one bothers to listen to her pops or otherwise." and, this, i think is the root of many problems. i truly think that if people tried to make sense, and, to think, logically before posting we might be able to have some sort of "general discussion" forum. it seems to me, folks are so hung up on just getting their opinions up on the board that they forget everything else. it is much easier to flame and call names than it is to try and make some logical sense to someone who may oppose our point of view. if we treated these threads more like actual debates, and, less like "look ma...i've got 87 posts in that thread, 'n am willing to call anyone i think is a lout a d****bg" we might be allowed a bit more fun on this site. doin' it again... Pop...Pop...Poppi!!!

Lemertek --

In that case, I don't expect that we'll be hearing from you again.

After all, you aren't allowed to post what you think -- so you can't post anything like what you just posted.

Right.........? There's some irony in there somewhere -- if only we could find it.........

Message edited on: 05/04/2005 11:00

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

it is much easier to flame and call names than it is to try and make some logical sense to someone who may oppose our point of view. if we treated these threads more like actual debates, and, less like "look ma...i've got 87 posts in that thread, 'n am willing to call anyone i think is a lout a d**bg" we might be allowed a bit more fun on this site.

True.

There's a dichotomy between 'free speech' in the forums -- and allowing anybody to say anything to anyone.

There are websites that allow the latter.

Such sites can be interesting places to visit -- sort of like visiting a 3rd-world warzone -- but I wouldn't want to live there.

One tends to see the absolute worst in people there. And that isn't a good thing. In spite of the strained reasoning used to attempt to indicate otherwise -- and to label it something wonderful.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Xeno, I may have missed some fine nuances from the forum mavens here, but are they saying you and Lorna are clones? I guess it would explain alot, but I don't believe it myself.

"a better idea would to only post ONCE." Ah yes, good old netiquitte. Not too popular around here, but you are so right. Say it loud, say it again! No, wait, you already said it once. :-) Absolutely spot on, Carolly. If there was a bit more self-moderation here (and yeah, yeah, that goes for me too,) there might be less cynicism and hostility about certain posters who aren't known for consideration regarding bandwith and their fellow members' time. Dean

Tiptoeing back in, I think some of us have the bizarre notion that we "win" if we are the last post, so it becomes "tag, you're it" to get that last post in and get more points (as in more postings) than someone else. Especially if you are trying to get in before a thread gets shut down or moved. Why else would this have gone on for, now, 103 postings? I include myself in that bad habit. When I see my brilliant words ignored, or (more often) misinterpreted and quoted out of context, I tend to want to jump back on the thread and it explain it all over again. Or add additional information no one much cares about. How very tedious of me. But I have lots of company. The truth is the majority of community members don't care. Period. Doesn't matter what the topic is. I need to remember that simple fact before I post instead of realizing it, yet again, after I've wasted yet another chunk of bandwith. Now the constant posters can jump in and tell me how wrong I am and how I misunderstood what they said and yadda yadda yadda, and who am I to have an opinion anyway (yeah, you're right...I shouldn't be so bold as to have an opinion different from yours). I'm going to lunch. Take care all. Maybe I'll take a look and see how this is progressing around Message #200.

but are they saying you and Lorna are clones? I guess it would explain alot, but I don't believe it myself.

Who knows?

The "clone" issue sort of went over my head in this context.........

We've also had some other vague accusations made here....without actually naming any names.

It's done that way in order to protect the innocent -- of course.

Vague-hint types of accusations also provide a handy out for the accusers -- if they are called on it, then there's always plausible deniability.

"Hey, who said that I was talking about you.......? Feeling guilty, are you? You must be guilty."

Or so I suspect that the reasoning goes.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Ah yes, good old netiquitte. Not too popular around here

Oh?

And do you have any suggestions as to a site where it is "popular" to post only once on a topic?

Offhand, I can't think of any. At least not in Poserdom.

about certain posters who aren't known for consideration regarding bandwith and their fellow members' time

Odd that we are told to allow completely unfettered "free speech".

And then we are told to not talk so much.

I just love logically consistent thinking.

---

As for a thread having too many posts -- the admins can always lock it.

That way, the posts will all come to a complete stop.

And then everyone should be happy.

No doubt.

---

As for other member's time -- they are welcome to choose not to participate.

No one is forcing them to read things that they don't like: or that they don't want to hear.

Their time is their own, to be used as they decide. If their time has been "wasted" on threads like this one -- then that's their own doing. They have no one to blame but themselves for wasting it in reading the useless posts of others.

---

The bandwidth which is consumed by a forum thread is quite small.

Especially when compared with the galleries, etc.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I'm going to lunch. Take care all. Maybe I'll take a look and see how this is progressing around Message #200.

That's nothin'.

Have you checked out the "Nudity does not equal Art" thread in the Poser forum.......?

Those people post too much, let me tell you.

Somebody should go over there and teach those people proper netiquitte.

Tell them that they are only allowed to post once on a given subject. BTW - many controversial threads go well over 300 posts. And the same individuals post in them repeatedly. Rude time-wasters of other people's bandwidth that they are. Message edited on: 05/04/2005 14:44

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

..nnnng!!...nnnnnng!!....nnnnnnnnnnng!!!!

>Xenophonz Typed thusly: >In that case, I don't expect that we'll be hearing from you >again. Nobody expects they'll be hearing from me again! (with apologies to Monty Python) Wait, oh no, is that the ... cone of silence?!? Regards- Lemurtek, still looking for that missing irony

I believe this is what they are referring to about the obvious clone accounts

89. Re: Once again, SndCastie swings her indiscriminate morality axe by XENOPHONX on 5/3/05 21:39

90. Re: Once again, SndCastie swings her indiscriminate morality axe by XENOPHONZ on 5/3/05 21:40

XENOPHONX and XENOPHONZ

109. Re: Once again, SndCastie swings her indiscriminate morality axe by Berkley on 5/4/05 18:53

I believe this is what they are referring to about the obvious clone accounts

89. Re: Once again, SndCastie swings her indiscriminate morality axe by XENOPHONX on 5/3/05 21:39

90. Re: Once again, SndCastie swings her indiscriminate morality axe by XENOPHONZ on 5/3/05 21:40

XENOPHONX and XENOPHONZ

Now that it is mentioned I too would like to know how exactly one does that. Aren't clone accounts banned? Forgive my obtusness but I WAS under the impression that technically per the TOS ya can only have one account here.
If thats the case why and how can there be a

XENOPHONX AND A XENOPHONZ? After all I am sure you don't want someone posting and trying to lead people to think its you xenophonz when its not really you.

Message edited on: 05/04/2005 19:11

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" ~George Orwell

Hi BDC, There are some members here that have two accounts for various reasons. We don't encourage members to have for than one account also for various reasons. The time when a clone account is banned is if its a clone of a permanently banned member and they try and register under a different username and get back in to the site to cause trouble. Hope this helps clear up the "clone" issue. Thanks Stacey Community Manager

*Wait, oh no, is that the ... cone of silence?!?

Regards-
Lemurtek, still looking for that missing irony*

BTW -- the "Cone of Silence" was a device used on the 60's comedy TV series starring Don Adams: Get Smart.

You can stop looking for the irony, Lemurtek........we've found it.

XENOPHONX AND A XENOPHONZ?

I can understand the quest for a chink in the armor somewhere -- anywhere.

But a joke is a joke. And an obvious one.

BTW - the "clone issue" was brought up prior to the infamous XENOPHONZ/XENOPHONX scandal.

XENOPHONZ/XENOPHONX was a joking reply to the idea of a "clone" in the woodpile.

However, I fully realize that it requires a sense of humor in order to grasp the fun. And not to see something nefarious lurking behind every tree.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Another BTW -- just a bit of helpful info:

The XENOPHONX account was registered at about the same time as the XENOPHONZ account. So it wasn't a recent innovation.

XENOPHONX hasn't logged on here since. Until today.

I believe that this was the first-ever post by XENOPHONX.

He's a lot like XENOPHONZ.

I know him well.

Message edited on: 05/04/2005 22:53

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

BTW -- the "Cone of Silence" was a device used on the 60's comedy TV series starring Don Adams: Get Smart. Yes, and the gag was, it worked so well, no-one could hear the people talking in the cone of silence,not even the people IN the cone of silence, hence the relevence. :) Well, at least we found the irony, I was afraid I'd have to go looking for it in that Alanis Morissette song. Regards- Lemurtek

Yes, and the gag was, it worked so well, no-one could hear the people talking in the cone of silence,not even the people IN the cone of silence, hence the relevence. :)

Yes, that's true.

And I can hear your silence. Right here in the forum.

Well, at least we found the irony, I was afraid I'd have to go looking for it

Nope.....no need. It's just there -- in front of us.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

"OMG! That's perfect!!!!! VOTE*" Carolly (Isn't irony a precurser to flattery?)

Well, my mother used an irony to flattery the wrinklery out of our clothes... Regards- Lemurtek

Ok for the people that still can't keep up... I posted my previous post about the clone comment because of this post: 101. Re: Once again, SndCastie swings her indiscriminate morality axe by mateo_sancarlos on 5/4/05 13:06 Xeno, I may have missed some fine nuances from the forum mavens here, but are they saying you and Lorna are clones? I guess it would explain alot, but I don't believe it myself. Then XENO went on to post this 104. Re: Once again, SndCastie swings her indiscriminate morality axe by XENOPHONZ on 5/4/05 14:15 but are they saying you and Lorna are clones? I guess it would explain alot, but I don't believe it myself. Who knows? The "clone" issue sort of went over my head in this context......... We've also had some other vague accusations made here....without actually naming any names. It's done that way in order to protect the innocent -- of course. Vague-hint types of accusations also provide a handy out for the accusers -- if they are called on it, then there's always plausible deniability. "Hey, who said that I was talking about you.......? Feeling guilty, are you? You must be guilty." Or so I suspect that the reasoning goes. which made it sound like he didn't know what they were talking about or that it was a vague accusation when it clearly was not since he posted 2 posts in a row under 2 different, yet very similar names. Due to the nature of his name (all caps) it's easy to miss something small like one letter difference..or if you are like me, it's easy to miss cause you tend to scroll past his posts as fast as you can since there is STILL no ignore feature at R'osity.

...nnnnnng!....nnnnnNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!!

there is STILL no ignore feature at R'osity Having that one feature (which people have been asking for for years now) would almost certainly cut down on the number of arguments. It wouldn't eliminate them entirely, but I definitely think it would limit them at least somewaht. Might cut down on the need for mods to rush in and lock threads and slap people on the wrists. Unless, of course, the mods actually LIKE rushing in and locking things down and slapping people on the wrists... bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

I agree Bonnie, particularly where there is not a good quote function on this board either.

Since people don't tend to quote entire posts and also don't have the name of who they are quoting automatically put in the reply people wouldn't see so much of what people they might have on ignore are saying and not be so tempted to respond ;)

Another feature which would be nice is the ability to hide your online status. It might cut down some on clone accounts as well (it would have in my case at least).

Every other board I visit has that feature so I can just use my real account and not have my time there watched by my friendly internet stalker. Here I had to make a clone account because that feature doesn't exist and I got tired of being contacted via pm/email with details about when I was viewing R'osity etc.

Not that it's anyone's business really why I have a clone account, just nipping that "you don't have a gallery, you have only been a member xxx days so you can't possibly have a valid point thing" in the bud. I'm not hiding so no one knows my true opinions. I just don't wish certain people to know when I am actively on a site.

For the love of-insert deity of choice here-! It's like listening to kids.
'Somebody said/created/implied/something I don't like so I'm going to hold my breath until they jolly well stop. It's only a suggestion but why not simply stop posting images if you don't like the rules of this site, don't post comments if you can't take criticism and, in general, take a chill pill. This place isn't real, it's virtual...why get bothered about what people that you've never met or are ever likely to meet may think about your lifestyle or artwork. If you're really upset then contact a moderator..I've always found them ok[no, I'm not brown nosing..I fear no one ;)]
Well..my work here is done...
Hi Ho Silver away!!!

Message edited on: 05/05/2005 07:28

123 is one of my favorite numbers. It's also the combination to my luggage.

I find that last post offensive as I once lost my luggage, which contained a pair of my combinations, at an airport! I shall complain...gggrrrr!

since there is STILL no ignore feature at R'osity Oh, yes there is! It's called: don't read the posts. As they say: ignorance is bliss. And if you can't see it, then it doesn't exist.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

which made it sound like he didn't know what they were talking about or that it was a vague accusation when it clearly was not since he posted 2 posts in a row under 2 different, yet very similar names.

Oh, I fully understood the completely spurious clone charge which was brought up by a couple of individuals -- attempting to turn a joke into a crime.

However, from the beginning of this silly clone matter -- XENOPHONZ/XENOPHONX was a response to an earlier vague hint that perhaps someone had cloned themselves: and that said individual might be arguing both sides of the issue.

For who knows what reason.

Then again, perhaps no such "hint" was intended. But if so, then why bring the matter up?

Mateo caught onto it.....but mateo is the sort to notice undercurrents. Quick on the uptake.

That tends to make a difference.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I just don't wish certain people to know when I am actively on a site.

Interesting.

I've heard others say similar things before. About getting nasty PM's and such.

For all of the forumizing that I've done over the years, I've only received one nasty PM -- and that one wasn't on this site.

I don't typically debate via PM. I've had a few friendly discussions that way, but never a fight.

My fights are conducted in the clear. And I don't use silly tricks like clone accounts; sending whiny PM's to mods when I don't like something that someone else has said about me; or attempting to invalidate someone else's opinion by suggesting that they don't have a right to speak.

I.E. -- "You don't have a gallery, so you can't say anything negative about someone else's art." It's a variation on the old leftist "chicken hawk" argument -- "You didn't serve in the military; therefore you aren't allowed to have an opinion about the war".

Such reasoning is equally ridiculous either way.

It's an attempt to attack the individual rather than the issue. In that way, one can avoid having to deal with the matter head-on. Just suggest that they don't have a right to speak for some reason or other -- that way, you won't have to listen to them say things that make you uncomfortable with your own assumptions.

If listening to ideas that challenge your own bothers you -- then take the simple expedient of scrolling past the posts. As has already been suggested.

Once again: ignorance is bliss.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Speaking of the military, that "cone of silence" term didn't originate with Mel Brooks and Buck Henry ("Get Smart"). It was a term used by the U.S.A.A.C. to describe a condition pilots used to navigate in for a landing, based on the cancelling-out of a radio-wave emitter's signal, which radiated in a toroidal shape parallel to the ground plane. And in regard to Swamp's "Ignore post" thread above, if the "ignore" feature worked with this forum software, they would already have implemented it. Maybe the inability to implement the "ignore" function is one reason why OT forums will never work here, because it's impossible to selectively filter out the destructive malcontents.

*Interesting.

I've heard others say similar things before. About getting nasty PM's and such.

For all of the forumizing that I've done over the years, I've only received one nasty PM -- and that one wasn't on this site.*

I generally do not have a problem with this type of thing either. In my case, it's not someone even involved in the Poser community. It's someone that I thought was a friend for many years. We had a falling out, but of course because we were (what I thought was) close friends for many years, they knew about my using poser, sites I visit etc. Not just regarding poser, but anything I have done over the many years we were friends.

Instead of being an adult about it and just leaving me alone, a consideration I give to them, they decided that it would be "fun" to follow me around and let me know they are "watching" what I am doing online.

I personally wouldn't waste my time doing that to anyone, let alone someone that has made it VERY clear that they want nothing more to do with me, but to each their own. I don't particularly care if they see my posts after I have made them..I'm not hiding in that sense. I just don't like being "watched" when I'm minding my own business reading forums.

If R'osity had a feature to hide online status I would not have had to make a clone account. I don't have one on any other site that I visit because they all have that feature.

Edited to add: I don't have any particular problem with XENOPHONZ. I just find his particular posting style rather annoying and therefore usually skip his posts for that reason.

Edited to add again: Sorry not fully awake here so missed some stuff when I skimmed posts the first time. I wasn't implying that you (XENOPHONZ) would say that about me not having a gallery etc. I can honestly say I never have seen you do that kind of thing and as I said I don't have a problem with you per se..just don't like your posting style. That is an argument that does crop up quite often here though, so I just wanted to nip it in the bud.

Message edited on: 05/05/2005 18:57

Message edited on: 05/05/2005 19:03

And in regard to Swamp's "Ignore post" thread above, if the "ignore" feature worked with this forum software, they would already have implemented it. Maybe the inability to implement the "ignore" function is one reason why OT forums will never work here, because it's impossible to selectively filter out the destructive malcontents.

Came here via an ebot so I haven't read that thread yet, but I will when I get to actually reading the forum.

They didn't used to have an EDIT function for many years despite it being asked for for a long time either and now they do so who knows. There is a difference between unable and unwilling to implement something.

I know an ignore feature wouldn't help a lot of people because curosity would get the better of them and they would end up "having" to know what that person was saying. I'm not that way personally. If I want to ignore someone for whatever reason then I have no desire to see what they say..why aggravate myself. I realize that probably isn't the "norm" for many forum readers though ;)

Time and again I find it strange that one can hold up a shoe with no name on it, only to witness people rushing to defensively declare it a perfect fit. ;-) Xenophonz my dear man, if I meant to refer specifically or soley (pun intended) to you, I would have either indicated so explicitly or would have witheld my comment entirely, as it's not exactly fair to single out one person for their behaviors when the subject is more general than that. While, as you're aware, many take issue with your posting habits, I've long been aware that calling attention to them only exacerbates the excesses, so you can trust that I was thinking of self-moderation as a virtue in general, not as a personal slight or as a stealth criticism. Trust me, my only ongoing issue is that people seem to confuse us and misattribute comments to me that were actually made by you, evidently because of the "x" thing, which I try to have fun with. Do what thou wilt. I'm sure thou wilt. :-)

as I said I don't have a problem with you per se..just don't like your posting style.

That's a fair enough comment.

.......but I wonder......is it the 'style'.......or is it the conclusions...........? Oh, well..........

A suggestion: if Rendo is able to successfully come up with an "ignore" feature, then feel free to make good use of it.

;)

To coin a phrase: it's no skin off my nose.

BTW -- certain others have indicated that they enjoy reading my posts, so I wouldn't make the mistake of assuming that you hold the majority view.

And in any case, I don't post by taking a poll first. Or by checking first to see who I will please, and who I will upset with the things that I have to say. I am flat-out honest. Brutally so, at times.

The chips fall where they may.

If I was concerned about such matters, then I wouldn't participate in the forums at all.

---

Should you choose to ignore this -- then be well.

I have no animus against you, either.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

.......but I wonder......is it the 'style'.......or is it the conclusions...........?

I don't know how much more clearly I can state that it is the style. I have equal problems with people that post exceedingly long posts with no paragraphs as another example.

I also don't like people that use all caps for no apparent reason (using them for emphasis is different).

It's just a personal thing for the most part and nothing against the poster themselves. Frankly, I don't know whether I agree with you on most things or if I disagree, because generally speaking I don't read your posts because of the style. Obviously, I do read them on occasion or at least skim them.

I happen to be reading them in this particular thread (well skimming them which as you may have figured out is why I ended up editing that post 2 times earlier because I ended up going back and actually reading them) since I am actually conversing with you (such as it is) in this thread.

Time and again I find it strange that one can hold up a shoe with no name on it, only to witness people rushing to defensively declare it a perfect fit. ;-)

Permit me to quote a section of my own post (#104 in this thread):

*We've also had some other vague accusations made here....without actually naming any names.

It's done that way in order to protect the innocent -- of course.

Vague-hint types of accusations also provide a handy out for the accusers -- if they are called on it, then there's always plausible deniability.

"Hey, who said that I was talking about you.......? Feeling guilty, are you? You must be guilty."

Or so I suspect that the reasoning goes.*

So, I suppose that I must be guilty. After all, I deigned to respond to the charge. And that action always proves guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Beyond a shadow of a doubt.

While, as you're aware, many take issue with your posting habits, I've long been aware that calling attention to them only exacerbates the excesses, so you can trust that I was thinking of self-moderation as a virtue in general, not as a personal slight or as a stealth criticism

For individuals that regularly haunt locales like the Chicken Coop to be speaking of "self-moderation as a virtue" strikes me as quite funny.

In addition to which -- this red herring issue of "posting habits" never seems to be brought up when the repeat posters in question are individuals with whom we happen to agree on a topic.

When that's the case, then we cheer them on towards ever-higher efforts.

I see complaints about posting habits as a back-door method of attempting to discredit someone without actually answering the substance of the things that they are saying.

A neat little side-step manuver.

Handy, when one has no real responses on tap.

BTW -- as I indicated in my response to Berkley, I've gotten both positive and negative feedback in regards to my posts.

Which tends to be the norm in most areas of life.

my only ongoing issue is that people seem to confuse us and misattribute comments to me that were actually made by you, evidently because of the "x" thing, which I try to have fun with

People confuse you with me?

Hmmmmmmm.

Well, we've all got our ideas concerning our fellow forumites.

Ideas rattling around........

BTW - how do you handle such flattery?

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I don't know how much more clearly I can state that it is the style.

Very well, then.

As I suggested, and as you yourself have stated -- ignore the posts.

My style is my own. It works.

As I have found time and again.

I have no intentions of changing it.

---

*I have equal problems with people that post exceedingly long posts with no paragraphs as another example.

I also don't like people that use all caps for no apparent reason (using them for emphasis is different).*

Sorry.....but to me, these types of things are prime examples of 'nitpicking'.

People are what they are. They all have differing levels of elocution; vocabulary; grasp of grammar; and talent at expressing themselves.

Not all of us were English majors.

Personally, I find the differences among posters to be interesting. Different. Adding the variety that spices up a forum.

But I don't waste my time in lecturing others over matters of style.

Emily Post might have laid out the proper way to eat at a formal dinner table.

Emily Post isn't here.

shrug If you don't like the taste, then avoid the recipe. Because the recipe isn't going to change.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

While, as you're aware, many take issue with your posting habits

Tell me, xo......did all of the negative feedback (a lot of it extremely negative) offered to Peng over his product review idea cause him to give it up.........?

Besides which, some of the feedback which he received was positive..........

In any case -- if a few words of criticism are enough to scare someone away from the table, then they really shouldn't be playing this game in the first place.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

"I have equal problems with people that post exceedingly long posts with no paragraphs as another example" That drives me nuts too...I get a few lines into the post and skim right on by it. Another Style That Drives Me Nuts Is Capitalizing Every Word In The Paragraph...I Cant Help Wondering If The Author Is Thinking "What I Have To Say Is So Important,That I Must Capitalize Every Word" It's difficult to read and I don't always feel like making an extra effort to read a particular style when it is done intentionally as a signature style. Oh Well,...I'm sure there are things about my style that bothers some people also and they just scroll right on by. I know I do it all of the time when I see certain names in a thread. It's just so easy to give the scroll wheel a turn and blow right past it.It seems implementing an ignore feature is like asking the programmer to invest lots of time and bulky code(In an already slow site) just to save me a turn of the wheel. Tom

“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”

Great Post Hawkfyr! I Like Your Style! Others Should Take Lessons From You!

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

*Sorry.....but to me, these types of things are prime examples of 'nitpicking'.

People are what they are. They all have differing levels of elocution; vocabulary; grasp of grammar; and talent at expressing themselves.

Not all of us were English majors.*

Well to me they make my eyes burn and it's exceedingly hard for me to read them and have any kind of comprehension.

I personally don't happen to think one needs to be an English major to realize that it's easier to read things that are put in paragraphs or have some white space between them. Sad commentary on the educational system if you can't even figure out how to hit the enter key once in a while.

I do try to read posts that are made by someone that is obviously not a native English speaker even if they do something that would normally annoy me because they are at least trying to communicate and it's not their fault that English is not their first language and has tons of weird rules that other languages do not.

I have bad eyesight and am prone to migraines, reading print with no whitespace aggravates that. I am not suggesting anyone change their posting style to please me. I simply do not read posts like that and honestly, I don't think I'm really in the minority. Most people just don't feel the need to publicize it.

I don't recall ever mentioning your (or anyone else's) posting style before this thread. Really I could care less what most people do, but if they are posting in a style they know is annoying to people then I think they have to realize that even good points they may have will be lost or overlooked because people aren't reading their posts.

I don't care either way..I'm mainly a lurker unless something particularly strikes me. Even then 7 out of 10 times I don't end up posting anyway.

I'm bowing out of this thread now simply because it's been derailed pretty far at this point and none of the stuff we are discussing was really the intent of any of my posts.

If you wish to continue it however, in this case I would be happy to do so in PM..not because I have any reason to hide..I just imagine we will get nailed for being OT pretty soon here.

As I said I have nothing against you personally and the points you have made (that I have read) I do not find to necessarily be without merit or intelligence.

I happen to believe people can disagree and it's not an earth shaking end of the world kind of thing. I disagree with my friends all the time or they with me and yet we manage to maintain friendships just fine ;)
Edit: stupid typos :( Message edited on: 05/06/2005 00:00

"Great Post Hawkfyr! I Like Your Style! Others Should Take Lessons From You! " Now There Is A Post Where Every Word "Was" Important. 8 )~

“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”

I just imagine we will get nailed for being OT pretty soon here.

It's likely.

the points you have made (that I have read) I do not find to necessarily be without merit or intelligence.

Thanks!

I......think........

Back-handed compliments are better than no compliments at all, I suppose.

PS - I'm joking here, Berkley.

;)

I happen to believe people can disagree and it's not an earth shaking end of the world kind of thing. I disagree with my friends all the time or they with me and yet we manage to maintain friendships just fine ;)

Here, we agree 100%.

I wish that everyone followed that line of wisdom. It would make the forums a much easier place to travel.

Be well, my friend. I am sorry to hear about your predilection to migranes.

May they be few and far between for you. Or better yet -- none.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I suspect that migraines and creativity go together... when you are lying there in the dark with the brain short-circuiting and flashing, all sorts of thoughts and images get jumbled together. In the old days, when my computer crashed, all the lost chains were thrown into a file, text and jpgs together, and the program would helpfully save it in case something of value could be retrieved. The brain is a bit better than a computer at making associations between random events. A lot of us poets and artists are afflicted with migraines, but we can find some interesting bits among the wreckage. One thing I hate, though... lying there with a brilliant idea and being totally unable to do anything about it. :( Carolly

'Personally, I find the differences among posters to be interesting. Different. Adding the variety that spices up a forum. But I don't waste my time in lecturing others over matters of style' I like your attitude...I have a tendency to..pause in speaking..for dramatic effect or simple forgetfulness. This comes out in my typing. As for grammatical issues...well most of you are americans and therefore are hopless at spelling and I still manage to understand what's being said :)So some posters don't cross all the Ts and dot all the Is, we can normally understand the gist of the messages.

I had migraines a lot during my teen years. Luckily, as I grew older, they just sorta faded away. I've haven't had one in years (touch wood) I don't know if that's made me any more or less creative, though. Regards- Lemurtek

"For individuals that regularly haunt locales like the Chicken Coop to be speaking of "self-moderation as a virtue" strikes me as quite funny." I haven't regularly "haunted" the Coop for some time, and the time that I did was about 3 months total. The Coop is a place where netiquitte is not exactly expected, as is made clear at the site. Your defensive attempt to make this personal is unfortunate, a needless example of IKYABWAI 'net rhetoric, which per usual, fails to offer an effective counterpoint to my real point, which besides being impersonal, was merely that a bit more self-control on the part of some forum users would be a good thing. The comment wasn't intended as an invitation to go off on some "but what about you!..." tangent. More bluntly, I'm neither a perfect example of what I advocate, but neither am I a hypocrite. Enough about me. In the software forums of Renderosity, it can be a real drag when people decide that a topic is "stupid" and set out to derail it with, for example, repeated comments about squeaky hamster wheels and multiple references to popcorn while those who find value in the topic do their best to keep on it. The better response would be to post once to voice objection, or better yet, to move on and find a thread of value. If you really must try to turn well-intended and impersonal suggestions and opinions into some sort of opportuntiy for voicing personal defenses or resentments, I'd invite you to do so at the Coop or even Ironbear's forum at xfx-3d where you'd have the freedom to do so without consideration of propriety, or for that matter, coherent argument. Otherwise, please accept that if I irritated a raw nerve, it wasn't intentional. ;-)

Oh, well xo.....I could keep it going, but I think that this thread has come to the end of it's useful lifespan.

To go further down this road would truly degenerate into a worthless 'push me, shove you' type of exchange.

So, I'll let the matter drop.

As for the Coop -- I peek in there once in a while, just to see what's happening. When the mood strikes me. But I rarely post there anymore. Once in a blue moon.

Frankly, the overall level of activity there seems to have lessened. Some of the old familiar names appear to be gone.

I suppose that they got tired of it, too.

Ironbear's place? Never been there. Is the atmosphere similar to the Coop? Or is it more like a cross-pollination between the Virtual Tavern and the Coop?

In any case, I'll see you around. Here -- if nowhere else.

There's got to be a good P6 memory bug thread in the Poser forum.......or perhaps a raging debate about nudity in the galleries............

Be well, my friend, be well.

;)

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

You too, and have a good weekend! By way of explanation, Ironbear's forum (which you can find under "Virtual Tavern" at www.xfx-3d.com) is Radio Free Ironbear, formerly hosted at 3D Arena. XFX-3D is Dodger's site. Ironbear sometimes aggregates amusing and salient news, links to interesting editorials, and his own commentary in the thread, which I think is where the "RFI" name came from. This goes back to "before my time." I've only been hanging out there for about a year or so. On my first visit, you and I were being made fun of, so instead of reacting negatively, I joked about it, and was instantly accepted by the regular crew. It's a barely-moderated forum where people can speak their minds. Thus there are some heated times, especially when non-regulars drop in to insult everyone, but for the most part it's just Poser folks who've been around for some time shooting the hay. The atmosphere is generally very friendly. Dodger has been posting images of some of his cool works in progress lately. "The regulars" get along very well despite considerable differences of personality and opinion. In fact, as occurred a couple of times recently, when people drop in with drive-by attacks as the result of arguments elsewhere, Ironbear usually calmly invites them to feel welcome and join the conversation. It's not a place for all tastes, though, as the daily routine usually consists of gossip about other sites and the silly things that people say in the forums. Despite the bizarre habit that some have of labelling people who enjoy gabbing "off topic" as "malcontents" or whatever, in fact some of the people there are involved at the most respected and well established venues in the Poser/3D scene, and appear to be quite content with everything except for general stupidity and ostentatious obsequiousness. You might drop by and say "hi" sometime. Just watch out for my ugly avatar, and whatever you do, don't look behind the bar! Sorry for the long off-topic meandering, all. ;-)

RFI goes back to when IB moderated the Virtual Tavern, right heere at Renderosity. It's been years. It then lived in The Pub at 3DC I believe for a very short time before being moved to the 3D Areana,then finally ending up at Dodgers site. It's been around a long time. Tom

“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”

IIRC, the original RFI thread got so long it overloaded the Rendo Database software, damn near caused a meltdown. (that's opposed the regular meltdowns it causes its easily/terminaly offended readers. :) RFI was born out of hand, and never looked back. Regards- Lemurtek

I think this thread has been discussed as much as it can be, seems to be way off the original topic at this point. I don't want to lock it so I'll not do that yet hoping that it is at its end. Thank you, Stacey Community Manager