I was reading TerraDreamer's thread just now, and whilst scrolling past Xeno's inane warblings and the mod backslaps, it kinda struck me... You keep calling this an artists community, for and about art. Thats why 3 forums were closed down. So... the message you're basically sending is that art is pretty and never inspired by world events or anything profound happening in people's lives unless it's stated and/or executed in a prettified (cheesecake) way. Art is never born through debate Art is never born out of heated discourse Art is never born in hostility, depression, upset, the entire array of human emotions and behaviour, disgusting as they may be when on display. Since it's become customary to show off old masters to prove one's point, I can always trot out Picasso's Guernica and Dali's Visage of War (the one w/o tits) as examples. One of art's missions is to generate a response. You dim down the entire concept of it if the only response allowed is warm fuzzies and huggles in faerie or softcore t&a on display. And you must know it at some level, because it's REAL interesting to see how the rendo gallery staples NEVER make the rendo showcases in 3D world. ~S

You are welcome to your opinions we all have our own that is what makes us unique.

The three forums you mention were the OT forum, the Den, and the Tavern. These were closed due to continued fighting,name calling and general attacks against each other. We are a community for artist not a war zone We have a TOS which everyone signed they agree with when creating a account here. All we ask is that they abide by the TOS that isn't too much to ask.

We have pleanty of forums here for the artist no matter what programs they use. We would much rather spend our time helping our members then having to hand out warnings or bans.

SndCastie
Community Admin

Message edited on: 05/10/2005 15:36

Message edited on: 05/10/2005 15:37

Sandy
An imagination can create wonderful things

SndCastie's Little Haven

Should I mention that, out there, in the real world of museums and galleries, you can run into artists that push the envelope, generate a response... and sometimes, that response is that their work is not included in exhibitions or downright banned. My point being that moderation of the content of an art gallery is not reserved to online content. I have another analogy to explain the reality of moderation at Renderosity. Imagine a bar, or a club, where people are welcome to come in, post their pictures on the walls and, yes, buy stuff while they are here. Would you mind if someone walked into that club, stood on a soapbox and started screaming about the end of the world, the state of religion or politics ? Would you find it surprising is the owners of the club called their bouncers or whatever security they have, and ask them to leave ? You may have the right of free speech - I guarantie you that you will not last long in any kind of bar or club if you start behaving in a way that the owners are not comfortable with. Yes - there are clubs that allow pretty extreme things. Even them have their limits. And there are clubs that accept only the whipsers of a library. They have their own limits. Think of Renderosity as a club, with its own limits, and life will become suddenly a lot easier :)

• agiel - www.linfa.net

Hon, I was one of the first posters in the OT, met some of my best online friends in the VT and had my share of brawls in the Den. But that wasnt quite my point. So please, illuminate me: What do you define as an artist ? ~S

"We are a community for artist not a war zone We have a TOS which everyone signed they agree with when creating a account here." I joined long ago. The TOS that I signed and agreed to abide by is not the same TOS that is currently in place. I, too, wish that there was some sort of General Discussion forum, here. For example, when we had 911, I had the tv on, and spoke with real world folks in my little corner of the world, BUT....I could not wait to pop over here to see what the initial reaction was in other places. I remember asking what had happened, and originally being told that it was coincidence. Then, I asked if the crashes would be considered an "Act of War." For some reason, back then, this place was HERE for me, back then. Now, it is just another spot on the web I hit when I'm bored at work. Perhaps, you guys don't really realize what has been lost. Sure, you can cruise along on the Poser cottage industry as long as newbies flock to buy the program...but, hey...this place DID use to be about the Art, and, all the feelings that went along with it. Now, it is more about selling the "Tools" (sure you have forums for most of the programs...why not....most of them foster add ons of some sort). You could easily have a General Discussion forum, if you banned anyone from that forum who slipped into talking politics or religion. They wouldn't have to be site banned, just, banned from General Discussions. But, I know that won't happen. And, as far as spending time helping others....Spike used to write some killer modelling tutorials. Since he has joined the "staff", I have yet to see one. How, exactly, are we being helped? I am not clear on this...You see, those tutorials helped me ALOT.

"I joined long ago. The TOS that I signed and agreed to abide by is not the same TOS that is currently in place." the following is at the bottom of our TOS and has been there since the begining. **Renderosity reserves the right to change, alter or modify the Terms of Service as needed. All postings, past and present are subject to the most current terms of service. Spike had his hands full runing the forums and such not as much free time to do tutorials as he did when he wasn't on the Staff. He has stepped down so maybe he will start again who knows. Our Mods and Coords are here to help in their forums with questions and such. Each one is working on getting just this sort of things implimented into the forums of choice. We are working on getting a Mod and/or coord into every forum here for just this kind of thing. This takes time and hopefully we will accomplish what we have set out to do. As for the OT forums, It would be nice to have one I agree but we have tried it three times and they all end up the same. So it was decided that no other one will be opened. I hope I have answered some of your questions If there is anything else I can help you with feel free to ask within reason of course :O) SndCastie Community Admin

Sandy
An imagination can create wonderful things

SndCastie's Little Haven

Poppi I joined long ago. The TOS that I signed and agreed to abide by is not the same TOS that is currently in place. At the bottom of the TOS it states the following: **Renderosity reserves the right to change, alter or modify the Terms of Service as needed. All postings, past and present are subject to the most current terms of service. There are great tutorials uploaded here quite often. We are working through some things with the team that will allow them the time to share their knowledge instead of having to spend their time putting out fires. As far as the OT discussion, this has been addressed several times and I really see no need in continuing to rehash again. Spinner, We did not say that art was not born through all the examples you sited above, of course art is inspired by everything around us. You can post gallery images here that are inspired by the things you mentioned as long as they are within the TOS guidelines as with any other site. Thank you, Stacey Community Manager

Whoops cross posted with Sandy:) Stac

so.... I asked you a question, sndcastie. Was it an unreasonable one ? ~S

LOL yea just saw that :O)

Sandy
An imagination can create wonderful things

SndCastie's Little Haven

I was a strong participant in the OT and the Den. I also occasionally bought a round from kbennett in the Tavern and watched pearce raise himself from a drunken stupor over in the corner with that friendly waitress passed out next to him to join me (grin). I was extremely dissappointed when they were taken away.

That said, I wonder if perhaps the wrong feature is being emphasized. There is still much freedom to express oneself artistically through the galleries. There are still certain restrictions, but one can express most of the things discussed within the aformentioned forums through their art in the galleries. I miss the general discussion forums (very much!!!!), but should that be the focus of "a community for artists" - or should the galleries?

Should Renderosity serve as the birthing place of the art (through some of the general discussion) or the expressing place of the art?

I don't think I've seen these questions posed or discussed in any of the "we should have general disccussion forums" threads.

Bob-bob-Bobasaur!
(please pardon my fond homage to Poppi)

Message edited on: 05/10/2005 16:34

Before they made me they broke the mold!
http://home.roadrunner.com/~kflach/

Stacie - my issue is that the fuzzies and huggles culture in the Poser specific realms of the site dumb down imagery and foster a culture where it's not about helping eachother, in general it's about being as inoffensive as possible. While I can respect the fact there is a very real need for a ToS with common guidelines, that ToS also calls for mods or coordinators being mature and even-tempered enough not to go on a thread shutdown rampage in the name of "artists helping eachother" and "community" Artists helping eachother, for instance, would typically result in screaming matches for some, as rendo already has an established culture in place for "nice only, please". I mean - the RIMjob didnt allow for a negative review, the store didnt allow negative reviews for ages, and merchants have had constructive crits on images pulled by hollering troll. Art is supposed to create and generate reactions - good and bad. It's not helping an artist out telling their plainly pedestrian T&A image is the best thing since michaelangelo, you know ? And THAT is what my initial post about - not to bemoan the demise of three forums, but the fact that chaos and conflict are also a part of art. So why not be a tad less triggerhappy ? ~S

I surely hope Spike does some more tutorials. Part of what is wrong here, now, is that there are less tutorials...free ones, that is, less quality free stuff, less chit chat and comardery (sp?)and more RULES...i can hang with the rules, but, it's the other stuff that makes me want to return. Am I the only one who also thinks that the quality of the galleries has gone down, as well? Once upon a time I was PROUD to post here. Now, I mostly render, and share with real world friends. (Because I am sort of ashamed to point folks toward the R'sity gallery of late. And THAT;s a REAL SHAME. However, it is true. Well, maybe, some enchanted day, I'll find the perfect Art site...with like minds and, giving spirits, and, I'll pull my gallery altogether and head off to that promised land. In the meantime, I can still hope for this place. Things changed once, perhaps, they will change again. Pop...Pop...Poppi!!! :*)

The only unreasonable question would be one that would ask me to devulge information I am not privy to devulge. Other then that I don't have a problem answering any question thrown at me that I have a answer to or can find the answer to or someone who can help. SndCastie Community Admin

Sandy
An imagination can create wonderful things

SndCastie's Little Haven

So are you able to divulge what defines an artist, then? ~S

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=744779

One of my earliest exposures into the OT was when there was an art challenge relating to Goths and we had a discussion on exactly what Goths were. Jaqui posted a link to the OT to discuss it further - since it wasn't exactly Poser related. I, too, miss the comeradrie from just yakking. That's where I developed my fondness for Poppi and many others. [SPECIAL DEAL] Check out the "hottie" picture of hauksdottir in Post 11 on the link - she looks great!

Before they made me they broke the mold!
http://home.roadrunner.com/~kflach/

many people have said over many years.... this is an art site provided that you are prepared to accept the rules. The rules are such that they exclude certain art styles, those ones that may be considered inflamatory, or even discussing said parts of art. WWW utopia doesn't exist. And poser porn really doesn't make enough money anymore. Lots of love.

To be honest, I don't think, honestly, there are truly two people on the planet who will define "artist" in the same way. To me, personally, an artist is one who conveys feeling, and transfers that feeling upon an audience, be it an audience of one, or of thousands. As for "the way things used to be"...as any community grows, there will be growing pains. Mods and admin had them every time they had to close yet another OT forum due to constant TOS violations. This community has grown in many ways, both good and bad. Just like any community, whether it be online or in the offline world. For example: In my apartment building, it has become an evictable offense to own a cat. Now, I, along with many responsible pet owners, not only rolled my eyes at that rule, but I did my best to fight it. My cat now resides with my mother in law after I saw the amount of money and trouble that the managers of the building had to go through to clean up an apartment after ONE bad cat owner. ONE. The expenses are transferred down to the tenants in fees that have ridiculous names that many tenants just sign away on. However, while I may think that the rule is ridiculous, I also know that the managers of the building have taken in pets on a case-by-case basis, and have been fairly lenient. However, after multiple violations from people who were previously considered ok to have the pet, or people who simply could not follow the rules, the rest of us have to literally pay for it. Is it fair? Nope. We had to send a family member to go live away from us. Is it real life? You betcha. As for Spike and his tutorials, you will have to ask Spike about that. We can't tell ya what we don't know. MS

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

"As for the OT forums, It would be nice to have one I agree but we have tried it three times and they all end up the same. So it was decided that no other one will be opened." Perhaps the reason none worked is because none of the input or advice from so many now, has been taken seriously and it is felt there is no real need for one, again, it's not being taken serious that artists do need a place to just be.. And there were actually 'four' forums really, although for some reason this place wants to forget the most popular of em all; because I hear the best one and worst one was that infamous 'Complaint and Debate' Forum that truly started it all and probably also dragged a lot of members here that got to know one another and as well became friends as well as bitter enemies through debates and daily whippings and yappings. As for the tavern, it really only ended up like an OT place because the others were taken away, something like is what's happening now, more and more, in this Community Forum, since members are confused as to just where to post stuff more general or personal. History..been here long enough now to have heard about it all. Gotta ask questions around here when there's such determination to squish the common logic that most members are asking for and would really like to have some place to mingle.. I think it won't be long before this here Community Forum gets close to disappearing too, you'll see that before another OT.. So, where?...and what's next when this Community Forum gets closed down too? Sign Language amongst the members in the gallery?

and whilst scrolling past Xeno's inane warblings

I love you too, spinner.

;)

sigh

Spinner has called my poor ramblings "inane warblings".

At long last -- I have achieved true greatness -- just as I always knew that I would.

Excuse me.......I have to go make a deposit.........

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Hey, Xeno, at least I didn't imply you oinked ;-)

~S (typo edit)

Message edited on: 05/10/2005 17:23

One of art's missions is to generate a response.

If that's the goal, then some of us should be ranked among the masters.

At least within the lofty confines of Poserdom.

Who knows? Maybe the story will rank a $20.00 'personals' classified ad in Peoria's local paper -- only I can't seem to recall the name of the newspaper in Peoria.........

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Hey, Xeno, at least I didn't imply you oinked ;-)

oink oink oink

O-I-N-K!!!!!!!!!!!!

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Poppi is dead on RIGHT!!!

Open up a new general discussion forum and call it "The Church" or just "The Chapel." You certainly shouldn't get any rowdies and problem folks happening there, except maybe the odd online couples wondering if they might be able to have an online Wedding..lol!! "The Stable?"

The Pen. ;)

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

An artist is anybody who creates images. No need to attempt to deny them their right to think of themselves as artists. No need to imply that some are more equal than others, that some of them are artists and some of them are not. Who are we to judge?

Hey......we've already got a Chicken Coop.

Why not add a Pig Pen?

Then we'd be well on our way to providing a home for all of the poor, homeless farm animals.

In such a forum, we could discuss the accepted principle of some being "more equal" than others.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Thank you Mateo, for thinking the thoughts I didn't. It's so good to have you around for debates like these - we can always be sure to be provided with that extra _sancarlos touch of non-judgementalness to incite us with the warm fuzzies. The Sty, if I may ask. Anyway - I concur with Poppi and the rest. And I do think you're also doing the newbies a massive disservice by not allowing people anything else but candycoated kewlies. ~S

Okay then, how about a "Happy Forum" and a particular TOS for that forum stressing that ONLY happy thoughts are allowed to be posted there? Make the default colors for that forum pink. Then make sure to put your happiest moderator there, and we all have a wonderful new forum! If that doesn't make waves, here's more bright ideas, "Peace and Love Forum".."Hugs and Kisses Forum".."Teletubbies Forum"..

um. Pink is not a good colour around these parts, dear... ~S

In such a forum, we could discuss the accepted principle of some being "more equal" than others.

After all, we'd have gotten rid of the Mean Old Farmer ((abbreviated M.O.D. - the "F" is silent)) that used to run things.

And then we'd all be FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

"Pink is not a good colour around these parts, dear..." Oh, I remember why; Pink Pony? Okay, how about eggplant or rose? Another name? Eden? The Garden? The Temple of Love? Hands Up? Carnation Street? Peaceful Passings? Tranquil Thoughts? Walk With Moses?

A artist is one who create's something from the heart be it the new beginner or the old master. I consider myself a artist but only as mostly a hobby. I do it to relax and unwind when I have had a rough day. But each person like MorriganShadow said will have a different view on what a artist is. What is your idea of what a artist is? SndCastie

Sandy
An imagination can create wonderful things

SndCastie's Little Haven

I hope that this doesn't disappoint anyone too badly -- but I've got places to go and things to do.

I'll get there in my great, big gas guzzlin' truck.

And it ain't pink, y'all.

It's white, as a matter of fact. Like the hat........

;)

I'll have to check back at this thread in a few hours. See where it's gone without my help.

See you 'round, spinner. I like you.

Maybe we'll dance again.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Doing away with those 3 forums won't solve anything. OT threads are just gonna pop up in existing forums. Notice the amount of slightly ot threads popping up here and the poser forum. You still have to deal with them time to time. It is just like sweeping the dirt under the rug. In the long run, they will creep up on you... Art is subjective. Restrictive art isn't art, merely propaganda. That's all I have to say. Now y'all have a good day.

---

---

Software: Daz Studio 4.15,  Photoshop CC, Zbrush 2022, Blender 3.3, Silo 2.3, Filter Forge 4. Marvelous Designer 7

Hardware: self built Intel Core i7 8086K, 64GB RAM,  RTX 3090 .

"If you spend too much time arguing about software, you're spending too little time creating art!" ~ SomeSmartAss

"A critic is a legless man who teaches running." ~ Channing Pollock

My Gallery  My Other Gallery 

"See you 'round, spinner. I like you. Maybe we'll dance again." So how about "The Dancing Forum?" Seems to work.. Salsa anyone??

In this friendly place they only can tell you, what is forbidden (7659 things or so), and if you are following these rules, than you are a artist for them. But if you don't, you are a pedophile or monster or dangerous or or or or or.... Greetz

...a Republican? (hey, had to ask.) For what it's worth, some of the best art on the planet has been borne of angst, adoration, fear, lust, anger, mourning, and even pure hate. Why not let a bit of it fly once in awhile? We may even get a better ratio of top-notch renders out of it. /P

But what does whining and flaming and complaining and stamping our widdle feet have to do with art? Wouldn't the time be better spent creating something rather than browbeating each other? As a non-artist who thought, stupidly, art was about originality and imagination, I don't get it. I guess that's why I'm not an artist. Thank goodness.

Bobasaur, Thank you. ;) XENOPHONZ, We might not agree on most topics, especially political, but for the most part I enjoy reading what you have to say. The html, though, is bothersome. Spinner, If we can't discuss things in an off-topic no-holds-barred forum such as The Coop, we can always show it in our art. Which is more effective: Guernica or a thousand words? A post might get buried or whisked out of sight, but a piece of art stands. Carolly

"A post might get buried or whisked out of sight, but a piece of art stands." (/me peeks at the biblical flood of "What's New" in the Poser galleries...) ...apparently not for very long it don't ;) /P

"The Forbidden Forum?" "But if you don't, you are a pedophile or monster or dangerous or or or or or...." No, it's not that. It's because this place is trying to attain credibility and keep it and feels the only way to achieve this is to be and remain professional and a forum with catfights and pitbulls fighting is just not going to display any prominent attractions. Unfortunatly us members are just as much a reason for no OT forum here; you only have to look into some of this very thread to find examples as to 'why'... The problem is I don't understand why the professional bit has to begin at the expense of the members losing a part of what makes them grow and achieve a standard of togetherness and belonging and lighthearted fun here among themseleves and other things they may value, instead of other slap in the face setbacks pointed out again and again that truly do contradict a lot of professional value..

You can post gallery images here that are inspired by the things you mentioned as long as ... You don't TALK about them here! ;-) bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

"and the Tavern. These were closed due to continued fighting,name calling and general attacks against each other." - sndcastie

Bull-shit on including the VT in that Sandie. And you bloody well know better. You were damned well around as a member at the time, rather than as a mod-bot. Kbennet was still involved, he'd call bullshit on you also on that one. Stick to the party line if you must on things, but don't bloody well lie in front of people who know better and not expect to have it bite you.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

We might not agree on most topics, especially political, but for the most part I enjoy reading what you have to say.

Likewise, Carolly.

The html, though, is bothersome.

Sorry if I "oinked" too loud -- I'll try to keep it under 190db's.

;)

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

What's with all the pig jokes? Pigs are fun! Went to a craft show and farm last Weekend and saw this one pig, now she was one fat porker!! I think she was proably pregnant, and hey, she was naked too!! Lol!! This porky Bess was running around like a hog in heat, like she didn't already have enough swelling her, lol! People were hootin' and hollerin' "Go Pig Go!" Poor pig, I think she just wanted to go slop herself somewhere in peace and too many folks wouldn't let her be. So what's that got to do with this? I don't know, just a pig story, since everyone's talking pig stuff here, lol! But since your all so keen on this pig stuff, guess it would be nice if we had a place to oink around here without having to worry that we'll end up as bacon or pork chops or having some forum pighand tie our feet together while we're trying to run a bit.

"Am I the only one who also thinks that the quality of the galleries has gone down," Poppi: You are not the only one. The Poser gallery has collapsed, fewer posts and less good pics, on the other side the Vue and Terragen galleries have improved and you can find good work there, maybe due the fact that censorship, until now, has little effect on those galleries and respective artists.

Stupidity also evolves!

Attached Link: http://www.sparkchaser.net/blather/penglatest.html

Lorna, for the info on the Pig thing, see attached link. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

"Lorna, for the info on the Pig thing, see attached link." Okay, thanks, explains all the pork references. ""Am I the only one who also thinks that the quality of the galleries has gone down," Poppi: You are not the only one." That's because many of the older members that had a clue are no longer here, went into permanent lurk mode, were banned, or just took down their galleries out of frustration. No offense to newer members, some are good, but most of this 'visible' forum does seem consist of newer members and probably will as this continues and folks continue to get muffled and ticked off, so how can much quality happen and keep on happening? Just post anything, couple of tits here, a couple of boobs there, one part of what I meant above by other unprofessional areas not going to be getting better and it doesn't matter; at least one time the tits and boobs around here had some quality! Lol!! And that goes for those male renders too, pretty bad when some of those past people made that old dorky male everybody sneers at look lots more sexy than a newby ever could slopping a quick pose with a Millenium Michael 228. The older members used to inspire and help the new ones, now we have newer members inspire and try to help the new members; I see plenty getting ignored or smitten with hamster jokes instead; how does that work and where will it go real fast?

how does that work and where will it go real fast?

Provided that one accepts all of your premises for the sake of argument --

Where will it go? Not very far.

Out of the literally 1000's of vistors that come to Rendo each and every day -- there are.....what? A dozen or so of us who regularly indulge ourselves in these endless forum go-rounds on subjects like this one? Maybe two dozen?

I strongly suspect that 99% of the surfers here at Rendo frankly couldn't care less about what any of us professional forumites think on a given subject -- pro or con.

And those who do lurk threads like this one primarily come here for the entertainment value. Not to learn any Deep Thoughts from us happy posters.

Sort of like watching shallow "reality" TV shows: only there isn't any "reality" involved.

Display the "reality" of most of us for 30min. on television -- and you'd get maybe 300 or so people to watch the program.

Probably about the same number as read our posts in these threads. And with about the same level of interest.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I strongly suspect that 99% of the surfers here at Rendo frankly couldn't care less about what any of us professional forumites think on a given subject -- pro or con. I would tend to agree. (Ack, there I go, agreeing with Xenophonz again, what's this world coming to?!) And I wonder why it's so important to the Powers That Be that those few of us who DO hang around in the forums have to be all nicenice happyhappy non-political non-controversial all the time. If only a handful of people are visiting and participating, who cares if an even smaller handful want to argue with each other? bonni bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

Ack, there I go, agreeing with Xenophonz again Habit forming. ;)

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

You can see I was so distressed I double-signed my post. Sheesh. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

You can see I was so distressed I double-signed my post.

Yes.......agree with me often enough, and you'll be as popular as I am!!!!!

Fellow forumites might even occasionally talk/laugh/curse about you in other (Poser) places!

Talk about feeling important!!!!!! Just imagine the mark that one is leaving on the World at large! Especially the 99.99999999999999999999% of humanity that have never even heard of Poser, much less a mystical thing called the Poser Community.

They'll remember everything that we've said here in another 100 years -- you bet.

In fact, they might even remember us in the next 2 years. Or 3 months.

Maybe. If we can only make enough noise to attract attention to ourselves for a brief moment in time.........

---

I wield Great and Terrible Powers in the Land of Poser.

With a mere click of the optical mouse, I can make Art!

Or at least: I can make Victoria. Do something.

---

It's good to realize where matters stand. Reality. Gravity.

Helps to cut down on the drama of not-so-earth-shaking events.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

agree with me often enough, and you'll be as popular as I am There's something to look forward to! ;-P They'll remember everything that we've said here in another 100 years -- you bet. In fact, they might even remember us in the next 2 years. Or 3 months. Maybe. If we can only make enough noise to attract attention to ourselves for a brief moment in time......... Inhabitants of the Poserverse have ridiculously short memories, on the whole. One crisis after another, and with every new shitstorm, the previous "great outrage" is more or less forgotten by all but a few who archive these things or have particular reason to remember. And yeah, the goings-on in Poser forums is... Well, let's just say that on my deathbed, I really doubt that I'll be regretting that I didn't give some random person at Renderosity a piece of my mind or that some random person on some other site called me uninformed or whatever. The Poserverse is interesting to me, but all-in-all, it's not all that high on my Cosmic Importance Scale. I kinda think that if you take it all TOO seriously, you'll go crazy, and as I've already been that and have no wish to repeat the experience, I generally take it all with a big grain of salt (for my popcorn, of course). bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

The Poserverse is interesting to me, but all-in-all, it's not all that high on my Cosmic Importance Scale. I kinda think that if you take it all TOO seriously, you'll go crazy, and as I've already been that and have no wish to repeat the experience, I generally take it all with a big grain of salt (for my popcorn, of course).

Good thinking.

The only slight distinction that I would make would be to say that I don't take this very seriously at all.

Poser is a hobby that I enjoy. I can make stories with it. Travel to places that I'll never go in reality.

It's sort of like "traveling" through the agency of reading a good fantasy novel. But I don't base my real life around good fantasy novels.

If anyone does: then I suggest looking elsewhere.

---

In real life, popcorn is OK -- I'll eat it if it's offered to me -- but it's not a food that I crave.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Good morning, ya'll ;-) SndCastie - I was THERE when the tavern closed, I know kev pretty damned well, I threw 'bear's leaving party and t-shirt do, and bet your ass I'm confirming what he says. There are still some old timers around who lurk enough to remember. As for artist; Being the elitist, arrogant snob I am waves to dialyn, I feel that the concept of artist is someone who expresses something through a medium, and that that someone is willing to grow with his or her art, and working on improving it. Which is why I have a massive issue with Rendo currently touting itself as an artist community, since growing and improving also involve a great deal of being able to see errors and receive criticism. Or being inspired by whichever mood (or flame) takes you, including the negative ones. dialyn - I don't call myself an artist either - dilettante has always been my preferred phrase, cause I dabble, and I'm lazy in my expressions. However - It's getting rather tedious to have to read anything construed as critique against rendo as flamewars and stamping of feet; THAT is not very constructive either, because basially you're patronising a bunch of people, telling them what they're saying hasn't much value. As for originality and imagination - how far can you get with 10 coats of pink spraypaint and the Disney colour charts ? That DOES tend to stretch both originality and imagination but then again, what would I know compared to such luminaries of imagery such as you ? ~S

"I would tend to agree. (Ack, there I go, agreeing with Xenophonz again, what's this world coming to?!)" An end I'm afraid because I believe after searching far and wide, Bonnie, I think you and I have finally truly found God!! God has been brought to us on a new level, sending us passages of wisdom and incredible knowledge, and you and I Bonnie, almost let this get past us?!! I finally SEE, I finally UNDERSTAND for the "the XENOPHONZ" God has spoken and re-awakened my faith and from now on wherever and whenever "the XENOPHONZ" speaks I will 'bow', my ears will wiggle and my lizard hairpin will dance, thank goodness I got myself a better fitting bra size or I'd hate to think how they'd fall out too, from laughing, lol!! Now I know why those BIG GIANT divine letters to the NAME! Now I understand the power of "the XENOPHONZ" and why the membership always increases tenfold whenever he does speak here, his following is massive and great. "And I wonder why it's so important to the Powers That Be that those few of us who DO hang around in the forums have to be all nicenice happyhappy non-political non-controversial all the time. If only a handful of people are visiting and participating, who cares if an even smaller handful want to argue with each other?" Perhaps it is because "the XENOPHONZ" is among us and says so?? Okay.. Really Bonnie, this place has attracted a LOT of attention in many venues far and wide, from Universities, Colleges, Varieties of Professional Businesses and Institutions alike, they have a Magazine that is sold in REAL live stores, they have a movie, and reachout out in so many ways, the Pink Pony fiasco alone put this lace on a huge scale map online, and being as OLD and as BIG and as BLOATED as this place is, it has in itself became the God of Forums in its' particular genre. The forum hand know this, and wish to take full advantage of this, and do so quite well through more marketing and even more ads, (some ads very, VERY questionable of late I might add, I still just can't believe what I see advertised in some banners here that makes the TOS here a pathetic joke not to be taken seriously and DOES make this site look quite PORNO-ISH); again, unfortunatly we, us members, have to look all pretty and dollied up and wear our best party suits and dresses for any occasion more and more, just in case, sowhen some big folks pass through here and wanna see what's happening or what is going on and whether this place is worth some value or investment or similar the forum hand can be at peace knowing nothing horrible is gonna turn someone off and away. Meanwhile, I don't think they are really paying attention to those banner ads and what is being slapped up there?? Okay, here's hoping "the XENOPHONZ" God is in a good mood, and doesn't strike me down for such an overly long posting, don't wish to dance upon "the XENOPHONZ's" parade. LOL!! Sure glad that at least some newer members do have a sense of humor which I know the XENOPHONZ" has, or I sure wouldn't be posting this or joking with XENO this way; that is something I am giggled to see, with a fluttery blink and a happy smile.. Spinner, your last post here above is well spoken. I wish people and the forum hand here would just try and listen to you and try to understand what you are saying; and that is not meant as funny or joking in any way! In fact, I couldn't be more serious. Please, listen to spinner?? She really makes sense here.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12357&Form.ShowMessage=2254638

the Challenge Forum has its May theme up. It's open to all.

Since the galleries are what most surfers cruise, I would bet actual Fresh American Dollars that this site is not viewed as "professional" by many actual "professional" people. Nekkid Vickies plopped in the center of a render and childishly decorated with photoshop tubes from the market just don't cut it. By cutting down on forums I feel that the PTB have not increased the professionalism of the site. Better they cut down on the cheesy renders that have taken over this place. Of course, folks can actually PAY to upload more than one cheeseball graphic per day. Sort of the Vanity Press of the artworld. I think an artist is one who can convey feelings or ideas to others, using his/her respective medium. I don't see much feeling in the major galleries, here, anymore. But, hey now, folks can upload and get lotsa hugs. Pop...Pop...Poppi!!!

Poppi, If it is the "conveyance of feelings" you want, you'll really like the May Challenge. :) Carolly

hey Carolly - that's a pretty cool choice of challenge actually :-) Do you think I'll be able to be artistic and have an opinion at the same time ? ;-) Poppi - there's never gallery staple T&A in the rendo marketing campaigns. I get to see them when I buy 3DW, and there's rarely a vicki in sight ~S

hummm, rocks. I might give it a shot...Can we make a sculpted rock that resembles something else?

"By cutting down on forums I feel that the PTB have not increased the professionalism of the site. Better they cut down on the cheesy renders that have taken over this place. Of course, folks can actually PAY to upload more than one cheeseball graphic per day. Sort of the Vanity Press of the artworld." Why not just do what DAZ does (back when we hashed out how the personal galleries would be set up), and force the user to a gallery limit of n images (like, 10?) It's all upside, really: The prolific posters would be forced to keep the thing up like it were an actual portfolio (meaning that they either have to replace the crappier ones with newer, ostensibly more improved ones, or run out of space.) The site also doesn't have to run out to NewEgg and buy 40 more hard drives every week, and there's less overall load on the DB software because it won't have as much to chew through. Limiting uploads to one per week would be nice, too - it would discourage those who have this ungodly urge to post a new render every ten minutes. Perhaps a grace period of unlimited uploads per day on the initial potfolio loads, but after that, it's once a week - and since you have time, maybe you can work on the thing some more and make it better? If the user wants more space, make 'em pay $n/month for unlimited portfolio space/upload-frequency, etc. /P

don't wish to dance upon "the XENOPHONZ's" parade.

LornaW -- did you mean to say "rain upon XENOPHONZ's parade"?

I've never thought about dancing upon someone else's parade -- although the idea does create some interesting mental images.......

Sure glad that at least some newer members do have a sense of humor which I know the XENOPHONZ" has, or I sure wouldn't be posting this or joking with XENO this way; that is something I am giggled to see, with a fluttery blink and a happy smile..

It's always gratifying to be appreciated for one's talents.

Actually, I am glad that some can laugh. I do.

I finally SEE, I finally UNDERSTAND for the "the XENOPHONZ" God has spoken and re-awakened my faith and from now on wherever and whenever "the XENOPHONZ" speaks I will 'bow'

Uh.......no. I wouldn't suggest this course of action. In fact, I'd be dead set against it.

We are all merely fellow mortals here. To claim otherwise might call down lightning on our heads.

Please, listen to spinner?? She really makes sense here.

She has her moments.

I'd say that I agree with her at least 10% of the time.

It ain't all bad.........

Although I suspect that she agrees with me around (-)10% of the time. Merely upon general principles, if for no other reason.

;)

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

'"and the Tavern. These were closed due to continued fighting,name calling and general attacks against each other." - sndcastie'

I'd have to disagree on that myself. Virtual drunkeness maybe but nothing more. 'Tis a tough one...what's an artist? I'm with Mateo on this. As for the need for a place for 'gloves off' talk..I believe we need it. I can't imagine the artists in the cafes of 19th century Paris taking somebody to task over harsh criticism or abuse. That's what the OT and Vt forums were, at least to me. A place for all of us electronic bohemians to chatter about everything under the sun and how we could put the world to rights if only we were in charge. Still..what would life be without change? Nice to see some familiar names here and thank heavens for the edit facility as my typing hasn't improved:)

Message edited on: 05/11/2005 09:51

Message edited on: 05/11/2005 09:52

Today I've browsed 20 pages of the gallery and found nothing more than two or three Vue pictures, for the first time the Poser's top 20 has more interesting images than those twenty pages!

Message edited on: 05/11/2005 09:59

Stupidity also evolves!

Hi Ironbear, Just wanted to point out that you are exactly right regarding the Tavern. It was a pretty calm, cool place to be. The reason it got closed was not because of the same reasons as the Den and OT forums but because we knew that it would turn into the same type of place before long. Since we were doing away with OT forums, we just closed the Tavern at the same time. Thanks Stacey

Xeno: The Carriage Return key is a privilege, not a right. thx in advance, /P

thx in advance

Why, you are most certainly welcome........

........my friend!

;)

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

"and the Tavern. These were closed due to continued fighting,name calling and general attacks against each other." I dont recall ever seeing alot of fighting and bickering in there...even when heated debates and flamewars raged in the OT and Den...mainly alot of peanut shells, and moldy customers either lying around under the tables, or passed out at the bar...snicker

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Yes Ironbear I appologize for the misunderstanding on the VT I had included only because it was shut down at the same time as the OT forum. SndCastie

Sandy
An imagination can create wonderful things

SndCastie's Little Haven

"LornaW -- did you mean to say "rain upon XENOPHONZ's parade"?" No, I meant 'dance' XENO..do you Salsa?? Just don't step on my toes, I hate men that step on my toes, and make sure you don't make me lose my lizard hairpin!! From what I heard, the tavern closed around the time of the Complaint Forum because all the folks ran there and started singing their songs there and more unsavioury stuff started, probably due to all the boze mixed in. I may be wrong, if I am, blame the source, I'm just telling what I have heard. Who's the source? Not telling, but there seems to be plenty of old geizer members around these parts that like chatting with young, outspoken, nosy female members wearing a lizard hairpin, lol!!

"From what I heard, the tavern closed around the time of the Complaint Forum because all the folks ran there and started singing their songs there and more unsavioury stuff started, probably due to all the boze mixed in." For the record: the Complaint forum was long gone and replaced by the OT Forum when the closures happened. The OT was getting (in the opinion of mods) too wild. The Tavern, as Stacey said (see post 69), wasn't, but it got closed at the same time just in case it went that way after the OT shut down. Some of the OT people, pissed at that decision, went and set up their own forum elsewhere. m ;)

As for the galleries I dont care about the content( naked vickies,BOOBS, etc) i just wish more people would learn lighting and composition. poser six has some awesome new lighting and rendering options just look at the incredible poser 6 renders by artists like "MAXXMODELZ". LEARN ,LEARN LEARN!!!!! ;-)

My website

YouTube Channel

"For the record: the Complaint forum was long gone and replaced by the OT Forum when the closures happened. The OT was getting (in the opinion of mods) too wild. The Tavern, as Stacey said (see post 69), wasn't, but it got closed at the same time just in case it went that way after the OT shut down." Okay, honest mistake.. Suppose either way it was, it won't bring any of those forums back and it sure doesn't look like we'll be dancing in any new open forum anytime soon. Just have to make the best of what is here and hope we don't end up losing even more.

Just wanted to say (and this was mentioned in another thread regarding OT stuff but I can't remember which one, LOL) that we are working on some things that won't necessarily be an "OT forum" but maybe topic specific. For example something like a book forum to discuss books, music forum to discuss music, movie forum. These are just examples of things that they may include. Please give us some time to work on this behind the scenes and we'll let you know when we come up with something that can be done. Thanks Stacey Community Manager

Oh kewl Stacey...how about a "Cheese and Whine" forum then all the whining could be herded into one corner hehe ... Just a thought grin ...

STORE:
http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=KymJ
GALLERY:
www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=KymJ

LOL Kym! Don't know about that one:)

Geeze, and I was gonna offer to supply the cheese too..oh well!! LOL.

STORE:
http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=KymJ
GALLERY:
www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=KymJ

Well in that case.................. Stac

LOL...this I wanna see. :)

STORE:
http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=KymJ
GALLERY:
www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=KymJ

Yeah........the Tavern was a victim... Kev did a great job with it during his time here...It was a good alternative to the OT and The Den..Unfortunatly..near the end it was a Ghost town..

www.bclaytonphoto.com

bclaytonphoto on Facebook

"I joined long ago. The TOS that I signed and agreed to abide by is not the same TOS that is currently in place." Thats a good point. "Stacie - my issue is that the fuzzies and huggles culture in the Poser specific realms of the site dumb down imagery and foster a culture where it's not about helping eachother, in general it's about being as inoffensive as possible." Hence sometimes the truth does hurt. "These were closed due to continued fighting,name calling and general attacks against each other." - sndcastie" That still goes on here in this forum from time to time, so I have to ask why isn't this forum closed too now? J/K LOL

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" ~George Orwell

The goal is to be creative. If it is a half-molten rock in lava showing self-destructive rage it is just as valid an entry as a lonely menhir in a Bryce landscape or a photograph of a weeping cemetary statue from 1700. How would a meteorite feel on impact? Joyous or scared stiff? What about a statue weathering centuries of acid rain or bird droppings? I remember one Yosemite scene where I was sketching The Rostrum from the cliff behind it. There is a rock that looks like a potato... no matter what I did, it looked like a potato. A photo would have revealed it as a lumpy grey potato, too. ;) I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet, but those of you who model your own meshes have a lot of freedom... and this is a chance to do something that touches the viewer. Carolly

So are we gonna have a forum so we can whine about cheesy art? huh huh?

---

---

Software: Daz Studio 4.15,  Photoshop CC, Zbrush 2022, Blender 3.3, Silo 2.3, Filter Forge 4. Marvelous Designer 7

Hardware: self built Intel Core i7 8086K, 64GB RAM,  RTX 3090 .

"If you spend too much time arguing about software, you're spending too little time creating art!" ~ SomeSmartAss

"A critic is a legless man who teaches running." ~ Channing Pollock

My Gallery  My Other Gallery 

We have regular whining about too much cheesecake in the galleries......but we don't need to have a separate 'cheesecake & whine' forum for that. The sentiment gets expressed often enough already without one.

Threads complaining about the unending avalanche of cheesecake renders pop up at least two or three times a month. If not more frequently than that.

And there's always a strong bouquet of whine included in the mix.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

For example something like a book forum to discuss books, music forum to discuss music, movie forum.

Not a bad idea. Not bad at all.

For some reason, I doubt that we'll ever see a political forum.

Hey! Here's a thought -- why not create a 'Nudity Debate Forum', or, more simply -- the 'No Nudes Is Good Nudes Forum'..........a forum like that would be a lively place, you bet. Never a dull moment. And just think of the advantages: such a forum would remove many lengthy threads from crowding in on the other forums.

Of course, it'd also be likely to draw off about half of the forum traffic around here.

For those members that don't want to see such discussions, we can expand the "ignore" feature to include multiple layers of functionality:

-- ignore individual member
-- ignore whole thread
-- ignore entire forum
-- ignore everyone and everything on the site

That should do it.

Oh, yeah:

-- ignore the Man Behind the Curtain Message edited on: 05/12/2005 00:28

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

"Hi Ironbear, Just wanted to point out that you are exactly right regarding the Tavern. It was a pretty calm, cool place to be. The reason it got closed was not because of the same reasons as the Den and OT forums but because we knew that it would turn into the same type of place before long. Since we were doing away with OT forums, we just closed the Tavern at the same time." - StaceyG

And... > "Yes Ironbear I appologize for the misunderstanding on the VT I had included only because it was shut down at the same time as the OT forum." - SandCastie

Accepted, and no probs. ;) And I know I'm "exactly right" - I was there. But do keep the record straight, please. There were exactly three "fights" in the VT in all the years it was open. All three shut down fast by the regulars, or by me. Even when the closing of C&D casued an influx of new regulars, it generated a bit of passionate discussion, but no flamewars. Only major fight that happened there was betweeen me and Spike over a thread deletion, and THAT fight happened mostly behind the curtains between me, him, and Tammy in mods forum. ;] KBennet was one of your best mods here for a long time. He not only did a real damned good job of managing the VT and keeping it a decent place to hang out, he was my handpicked replacement when I quit. I don't particularly give a damn on my part whatever revisionist history you care to spin on forum closings. Water off my back, as long as you don't pee down it and try to tell me it's raining. ;) But Kevin doesn't deserve that implied slam from you, Sandie, and he definately doesn't rate it from a late-comer, Stacey. He might not call it, but I will. We return you now to your regular argument, already in progress. Over to you, Spinner. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

It was not my intention to slam Kev and I hope he doesn't take it that way.If he did I am sorry Kev. He was part of the team when the decussions were made on this issue. He knows why it was shut down and it had nothing to do with him. He was a great Mod and we miss him. SndCastie

Sandy
An imagination can create wonderful things

SndCastie's Little Haven

Hmmm..sniff, sigh,..hooo..smell and feel that old attitude..that lost, raw, freedom fighting, uncooked, unwashed, unbashful determination and spirit one can only find left in some of those that were once proud accomplishments among this forum; until other priorities took away the thunder and rustle of worth and value found in such things as substance of membership and inspiration found in 'individual' sources of talent and the ideals of uniqueness and vitality of open thought meant much more than the shallow traffic jam of surfers waiting in line to get noticed or get marketed..

Oh, please excuse me, maybe read too much Shakespear already today and seem to have lost myself in the seriousness of it all for a brief moment there upon reading such depth being posted here.
Back to basics, gotta go paint my nails and do my hair, make the best of another day..lol!!
Wine and cheese..hmmm, gotta pick up both for the weekend, thanks for reminder! Good forum title too..

Message edited on: 05/12/2005 11:09

pushinfaders did a great job, too. :-)

Yes he did and still does :O) SndCastie

Sandy
An imagination can create wonderful things

SndCastie's Little Haven

My art comes from me, from my soul, from my pain, from my reaction to events in the world and in my personal life. You may not understand that because maybe my art shows a bright fairy or a happy scene. That doesn't mean it came from a happy place inside me. What I have to say in my art goes from the extremes of dark and light. But believe me, as much as I love rosity, and the people here (well, some of them), if rosity were to cease to exist tomorrow, my art would continue. I don't feel like I have long to live, and I expect to be back in hospital soon, so I need to say all I can say before I either go blind or die.

Talent is God's gift to you. Using it is your gift to God.

Oh no, that's just awful hun, what an extremely sad post.
Is there no one or anyone that can help you get better from whatever is making you end up this way? Surely there has to be something that can be done for you before something so bad happens!
bonestructure, you keep posting away okay?

I don't think anyone will object to your words and your gallery postings and many of us do look forward to them, and you get better, okay?
See those Doctors, and Specialists if you have to!

Message edited on: 05/12/2005 17:23

No, don't really have anyone to help, wish I did, There's beauracratic crap holding me up, poverty, isolation, lack of anyone to help me with stuff like cleaning and transportation and stuff. I manage to stay alive and keep my sense of humor.

Talent is God's gift to you. Using it is your gift to God.

Amazing!! You sure do set an incredible example for everyone else, always remember that no matter what dear! Hey, and we think we have problems?? Look at this marvelous person who still manages to have a sense of humor with all this happening!! I feel ashamed for ever venting about a broken nail or a broken heel or my lizard hairpin falling out, and people have road rage??!! Nevermind the slug that cut you off, be glad you can see and your alive!! You go bonestructure!!! You try and get better, okay, I do wish you well..

Nah, I'm a bad example lol.

Talent is God's gift to you. Using it is your gift to God.

If you can keep your sense of humor, you're a good example. Sure puts a lot of the nonsense we spend time arguing about into perspective. Take care, bonestructure.

That's really why I don't argue about this stuff much. I'm not trying to sound all arrogant or stuff, but I look at a lot of these arguments and I'm like jesus people, this is such trivial crap. Or like, I dunno, getting sick affects you. Almost dying affects you. Changes your views about a lot of stuff. I just don't have the time or energy to be mean to people or raise holy hell about stuff much. I still get my shots in, but I'm not as dedicated to it as I used to be. Rather make people laugh. One of my main concerns is what do do with my art and writing when I do die. I don't have anyone to leave it all to that would appreciate and value it and do something with it all. That bothers me a lot. And loneliness is killing me. I desperately need someone to help me clean this disaster area of an apartment too, and help me throw a bunch of stuff away to lighten my load. Help me get a bed that's fit for human occupancy. Get a laptop so I can work when I have to be in bed. I need to write letters to congressmen and stuff so I can receive proper medical treatment, and I hate doin that kinda stuff. I like doing art, writing, watching my movies and making people laugh. That way when I'm gone, when people think of me, at least they'll smile

Talent is God's gift to you. Using it is your gift to God.

Attached Link: http://www.bonestructure.net/

I can't speak to your problems....I don't have any great insights. Your pain is great; your talent is greater. Your graphics are lovely, and I certainly smiled when I saw the front page of your website. "Dare to dream," indeed. That's all I ever wanted from this site. Thank you for reminding me of that.

Got that right dialyn! I agree with you one hundred percent!! bonestructure sure has a lot going for him and he's got the greatest attitude I've ever seen and considering his plights. Love that little doggie by the hydrant, made me giggle. Dare to dream, yes, and in many ways you are already a dream that is a reality bonestructure, because dreams are founded opon traits such as yours. Just from what little I know of you here, from your art, your posts, your style, I can tell that your kind, considerate, funny, very talented, intelligent yet always not afraid to learn more, and you probably got more class than many who think they do and don't! What makes you extra special in my fluttery eyes bonestructure is that you of all people don't have to be a nice person, you have enough bad poo happening in your life to actually have every right to make a mountain out of a moehill, because you've a mountain to climb for sure! But you don't. Instead of being a crabby grouch and taking out your warranted frustrations on everybody and everything, your a nice person, you have great attitude towards others, your able to laugh, and your able to shine through big, not because you have to at all, but because you actually want to.. You have more guts and endurance than many pregnant woman I've known, and they swore and yelled like the dickens when pain finally happened. You hang in there tough guy! Nice website and awsome work! Your very underated.

aw shucks lol. Way I see it, it takes too damn much energy to be all grouchy and stuff. And I don't think I could be if I wanted to be. I'm basically a nice person. Some would say too nice. I'm a bit naive and way too trusting and idealistic. As far as my art, it's not where i want it to be, I don't have the skills I want to have. My modeling skills suck, and I'm still working on texturing and lighting. I ask questions is the 3ds max forum akk the time. I have my own style, but I don't have it developed to the point I want it yet. I go to raph.com or CGtalk and I see peopel that are so much closer to where I want to be. And believe me, I have days when I'm so damn frustrated by being help back because I'm sick, because I'm in poverty, because of my video card problem, because I don't know enough, because I have difficulty concentrating, because I can't work long enough. Believe me, I really do get downright grumpy. But I have fantastic friends, at least online. I'm lucky enough to make a little money to cover my bills, I have a roof and food, at least at the moment. The way the country's goin who knows about tomorrow. I have the outlet of art and writing. I mean, I may not have a lot, but I got more than a lot of people.

Talent is God's gift to you. Using it is your gift to God.

"...I may not have a lot, but I got more than a lot of people." You just said it better yourself than anyone possibly could, listen to yourself bonestructure! Bet your cute too, you sound it, lol!

well, I look a lot like either Jerry Garcia or a kind of raggedy santa clause. I have my own peculiar charms lol

Talent is God's gift to you. Using it is your gift to God.

Charming I'm sure!
Well, looks like I'll be putting on some Grateful Dead music this coming Christmas instead of milk and cookies, lol!
Excuse me, I have a salmon fillet sizzling in the oven, take care Jerry Garcia, Santa Claus, bonestructure.

Message edited on: 05/13/2005 20:51

" "I joined long ago. The TOS that I signed and agreed to abide by is not the same TOS that is currently in place." the following is at the bottom of our TOS and has been there since the begining. **Renderosity reserves the right to change, alter or modify the Terms of Service as needed. All postings, past and present are subject to the most current terms of service. " and that statement is not actually legal in the sense of taking one to court. yes you can argue that the signee has agreed to it, but to actually use that statement in a law court? you'd be laughed out and asked to pay legal costs and for the cleaning of the judges clothes.

An interesting side note:

If a business hangs up a sign that says:

"We are not responsible for items missing or stolen"

or:

"We are not responsible for items left more than 30 days"

or:

"We are not responsible for this/that/or the other......."

From a purely legal standpoint, such signs are utterly meaningless. Saying that "we are not responsible" is merely legalistic wishful thinking.

If the law says that you are responsible: then you are responsible. No matter what your signs might claim to the contrary.

One cannot disclaim responsibility for one's own torts.

---

However, if one were to attempt to bring a case in court against Rendo by stating that Rendo had changed their TOS.........so that members can no longer post images of nude children..........and that's incredibly unfair........and we'll sue.........

Yes, the judge might start laughing out loud, alright.

Only his laughter wouldn't be directed at Renderosity.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

by XENOPHONZ on 5/10/05 17:39 Hey......we've already got a Chicken Coop. Why not add a Pig Pen? ~Chuckles~ That comment made my day, Xenophonz!

Nancy Deer With Horns
Deer With Horns Native American Indian Site

**Renderosity reserves the right to change, alter or modify the Terms of Service as needed. All postings, past and present are subject to the most current terms of service. "

khai,

I do seem to recall a bit of consternation and debate over changes made in the TOS in the old ot when they decided to change the TOS to begin with, and as I recall some specifically raised the issue that, that particular clause was not in the original TOS. Then of course that was some time ago, and well once you get old like me the memory begins to fade quickly too. So I very well may be dead wrong too. LOL

Message edited on: 05/14/2005 01:52

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" ~George Orwell

Especially given the way some of these judges rule nowadays, one can never tell

On that point, we certainly agree.

The rulings from our courts are often odd -- even contradictory.

And it's unfortunate but true: one can often get as much justice as one can afford. That's not always the case. But it is too often.

We don't live in a just world.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

True that true that. You know xeno I do understand Rosity's desire to make this place more family friendly though. After all that is the trend right now in all business. And like it or not, rosity is here to conduct business not to be a "community". If not, everything here would be free now wouldn't it?

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" ~George Orwell

When it comes to enforcement of civil liberties, and more precisely constitutionally garunteed state and federal rights, I wouldn't be so quick to think the judge, would laugh.

On this point, we diverge.

A given private website's TOS isn't the Constitution. And it's not a matter of civil liberties.

Those same businesses that can't disclaim responsibility can refuse to serve you if you aren't wearing a shirt and shoes -- like their sign says that you are supposed to..........

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

You know xeno I do understand Rosity's desire to make this place more family friendly though. So do I. That's why it doesn't bother me. Besides which: if one wishes to go beyond Rosity's TOS, then there are other places for that........

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

~Chuckles~ That comment made my day, Xenophonz! I'm glad that you enjoyed my weak attempt at humor, SophiaDeer. People are always telling me that I'm a funny guy........ ;)

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Yes but those business can only do so because the laws (and the courts) have provided exception to the general rules, due to health and sanitation reasons. As with a theater who can tell you not to stand up and yell fire in the middle of the movie when there is no fire.

Thats completely different though, in my own humble and worthless opinion, than the situation that some feel is ocurring here. Today.

Then again I also think some of the "consternation" if you will thats gone on is due simply to the fact that most people are resistant to change to begin with.

But I on the other hand do also feel that one should be able to discuss pretty much whatever it is they want too, without having to fear being "warned" or "banned" provided they are'nt doing or saying things that break the law, like threatening someone's life, or the president etc.....

I don't know about everyone else but I can tell you that there are times when I have had some thoughts on some matters brought up here, and even some suggestions for making the "community" better, and don't say anything at all around here, purely because of the threat of getting "warned" or "banned".
P.S. I also wanted to say that while I know it is a hard job to mod or admin a site, personally my biggest "whine" if you will, is that there does appear to be, to me at least, no such thing as fair or equitable application and enforcement of the TOS. And thats because I have seen people get some of their images taken down, (wizard something or other was their name) yet I discovered darned nearly pornographic kiddy one's wich were left up and ok. That gives the appearance me, (who is, I realize, on the "outside" looking "in") that basically mods and admins just enforce the TOS whenever the feel like it, irregardless of wether someone's actually violating it or not. And I hope that this discussion won't get be banned, or deleted to the ethers of sub space. LOL

Message edited on: 05/14/2005 02:13

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" ~George Orwell

Well, it's 3:15 AM here, and I'm beginning to feel the need for logging out.......

So I'll check back at this in another 10 to 12 hours or so.

Have a good evening, BDC. Or a good morning -- whichever it is where you are.

Going off the air..............

XENOPHONZ has left the room.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

LOL Gnight xeno

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" ~George Orwell

Gee, see what happens if you leave a thread alone a few days ? Anyway - I find it pretty interesting that any crits against rendo these days will get parked into some sort of cheese and whine category - 'specially when the initial post pointed out a discrepancy and an erroneous definition. I've never argued ToS at rendo. (much) However, there is a inconsistency between marketing/profiling and what actually goes on in the galleries, and since I am one of those people who actually gives a shit about stuff like that, I wanted to have a debate on it. I do a lot of graphics work when I am not doiung consulting work, and I usually freelance on the side. I've stopped using rendo as a portfolio. It's too fucking embarrassing when people start smiling when I say I have some imgs up at rendo. And then I get the questions about the nicey nicey fora and digs about the current tit-parade. Hence, I give a shit - This is the first place apart from my own webpages I ever posted images, and to me it's a snapshot of how bad a dilettante I was when I first started out, and whtat's improved. Some of those tips and tricks and improved images have been a direct result of hefty forum debacles - good and bad. I miss that. I also feel that if people want to flame, let them. The ToS does NOT guarantee you a right to be perpetually inoffended. the ToS as it is now, basically safeguards the mods from having to step in. Easy solution: One gloves off forum. ALL other sites bar Bondware and Daz have one. The VT became a ghost town because people who were interested had left. Jmahoney and I migrated to 3DA, which now is XFX. (John died August last year, so he's not around anymore) Pearce and Jumpy played elsewhere. Cambert got fed up and left. did Hiram As did probably most of the regulars who got fed up with site hypocrisy and ToS of the day. On a different note: It's very nice to see that Stacy is enough of a professional to concur with anyone who takes rendo's side when taking a dig at fellow posters. THAT'S what a PRO community admin is ALL about ! Fuzzies and huggles to you, hon ! dialyn - I don't have a beef with you. I admire how, after all this time, you still stick to your guns and convictions, despite the barrage of BS and abuse that usually gets you. Respect. SndCastie - you're pretty... well-intentioned, aren't you ? I think there was a Dilbert strip once about good intentions and backbones. May wanna look it up. ~S

I've stopped using rendo as a portfolio. It's too fucking embarrassing I've never gotten any paying work from stuff posted at Renderosity. The only thing I've ever gotten from having work posted here is ripped off, to be honest. I kinda hate the thought of a client coming here, actually. All the crap in the galleries, all the banners in questionable taste (some of them flashing fast enough to cause a seizure)... Definitely not the most "professional" presentation I can think of, that's for sure. And yeah, everyone knows that what makes a site "professional" is not solid coding and a classy presentation, it's people being niceynicenice and happyfuzzywuzzy. ;-) bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

"so that members can no longer post images of nude children..........and that's incredibly unfair........and we'll sue........." No, this is not the TOS issue that bothers me. It is the "must be suzy creamcheese nicey nicey all the time" that bothers me. "I kinda hate the thought of a client coming here, actually. All the crap in the galleries, all the banners in questionable taste (some of them flashing fast enough to cause a seizure)... Definitely not the most "professional" presentation I can think of, that's for sure. " Yup, this place has gone warmfuzzy cheeseball all the way. I don't even send FRIENDS here, anymore. God forbid anyone I respect should check out the Poser hot 20. also, an aside on mod-stroking. at the end of the day, no matter how hard you try to curry favor...break the forum rules and you're outta here. that is, if folks complain about you. i am sick of forum threads falling into silliness about hamsters and piggies because others deliberately choose to derail discussions. that's not fair to those of us who are interested in the actual topic. and, stating negative feelings about something is not "whining". at least, not the way i was raised. Pop...Pop...Poppi!!!:*)

"I've never gotten any paying work from stuff posted at Renderosity." I have. Just my opinion here, but art should NOT be family friendly. It should be controversial, confrontational, it should make you think. Oh sure, I do my fair share of my little fairies and the like, but I also do images that are much darker. Do I think art should be filled with images of nekkid children? No. But if I want to do an image of a 3 year old nekkid and stretching up to a kitchen counter to reach a cookie jar, that shouldn't be banned. That's an occurence than anyone who is a parent has had. I understand the REASON for changing the TOS. I just don't agree with the application.

Talent is God's gift to you. Using it is your gift to God.

Art should evoke thought and discussion. But that's not what the OT forum was about, not even on its best day. It wasn't about art, but about three year old mentalities needing to beat each other up and have the last word. There is nothing creative or stimulating about that. And, yes, I was one of those three year olds. I absolutely admit that I've had more than my share of immature outbursts on the forums. But those outbursts had zero to do with art, and I at least will admit that.

Message edited on: 05/14/2005 11:05

I fel fucking ancient when I'm typing this, but the OT started out pretty decent. What disrupted it, and speaking as one of the former disruptive elements in the OT (It's where I got my warnings, one, amongst others for calling Geep a hypocritical creep or something along those lines), basically is/was politics. Or rather, the pro vs anti Bush debates. I did see some imagery come out of that as well ;-) Thing is - if you invite people to come express themselves via imagery but won't allow them to do so in the fora, you can't say it's an art community, you may say it's a commercial art community - the rules of play for commercial art are pretty different than for generic, "canonical art" I can understand about the 3 year old tantrum mentality. I think we all do. However - if the flamers don't lose sleep over it, why should rendo ? You can't say it disrupts shopping, because you know as well as I that a lot of shoppers never visit the forums - just the store and the galleries. We're not even arguing ToS - play nice or else is fine - as long as nice isn't basic Disney sweetness. Case in point - you could argue that Xeno isn't being respectful of other members when he derails thread after thread, as Poppi pointed out. How come that doesnt fall in under the 3 year old mentality when it disrupts a convo people are having ? Again - I think a gloves off forum with monitoring for illegal activities (warez questions, underage pr0n) but no stepping in would solve a lot of the grumblings. face it - most of the debacles these days are n00bs throwing hissyfits. Let them loose among the ancients, and they'll teach 'em forum manners real quick ;-) ~S

Case in point - you could argue that Xeno isn't being respectful of other members when he derails thread after thread, as Poppi pointed out

Case in point --

Give them back the same recipe that they are dishing out......and they never seem to like the taste very much.

Attackers shouldn't get all huffy when they are responded to in kind. If one throws down a gauntlet, then one shouldn't be too upset when someone else picks it up -- and flings it back into the challenger's face.

You tend to get what you give.

That should come as no surprise.

However, this thread has turned out to be an unusually civil one.

Now that is a surprise.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

As it's been said many times: Some can dish it out, but they can't take it.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Xeno - it would have been a valid argument if you didn't intentionally set out to derail - you've even admitted you do this. As for taking what I dish... 'bear or Q calibre people tend to get at me. I know this is way, way out of your league, but please - do give me your best shot. I kinda like the ticklish feeling of a forum gnat trying it's very best. ~S

I kinda like the ticklish feeling of a forum gnat trying it's very best.

Oh, brother........

sigh

Have fun, spinner.

If all of you were anywhere near as important as you give yourselves credit for being, then the rest of us would be the ones that would need to be liberated.

Time to go shopping at Wal Mart. Do something worthwhile.

Have a good time being yourself.

;)

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Maybe they'll have some tastier dishes there, huh ? ~S

Please keep this discussion civil and on topic or I will have to lock this thread. Stacey Community Manager

I don't see Xeno as derailing threads. There are some here whom he annoys, but you don't have to read his messages if you know beforehand you'll be annoyed. I think I have seen the term "hijacking threads" used, but people should be allowed to change the subject within reason, since it's more of a conversational thing than a formal debate. That is one problem I can recall from the tavern forum, where Kevin or some other guy would sometimes get angry at somebody who would say stupid things out of context, instead of just laughing it off and ignoring him. It's just too hard to do these days, laughing about something rather than fighting about it, letting it drop rather than needing the last word on it.

Interesting. What if we put the same concept into action into the closed fora ? "Well, if you know you're going to get annoyed, don't read it. " As I pointed out, he doesn't annoy me. Or get to me. He derails threads on purpose - I am not the one who brought this up mateo, I followed up on the comment, meaning at least two people are of the same impression. And derailing isn't thread drift, mateo. Kevin would get angry in the Tavern ? Are we talking about the same Kevin ? Cause the only time I've seen him lose it was with Cain Brogan... Years ago. I need to go talk to Kevin. Apparently he has a totally different personality than the guy I know... Meanwhile - while I am checking out this whole new personality thang w. Kev - you could discuss new forum ToS rules: "If you don't want to see it, don't look" "If you don't want to read it, use ignore" - oh. Wait. This is Bondware... "If you don't want to read it, scroll past and hope you dont see anything" That'd actually demand people owned what they did or did not do. Which isn't very good for the nicefugglehuggy atmosphere we're all trying to contribute to... ~S

This discussion seems to have run its course. I won't lock it yet but once again stay on topic if you still want to discuss and keep it civil. Stacey Community Manager

Well crap, ok....I will edit my post then and just 'bookmark' :(

Message edited on: 05/14/2005 15:00

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Xeno = "However, if one were to attempt to bring a case in court against Rendo by stating that Rendo had changed their TOS.........so that members can no longer post images of nude children..........and that's incredibly unfair........and we'll sue......... Yes, the judge might start laughing out loud, alright. Only his laughter wouldn't be directed at Renderosity." what the hell is he talking about? who mentioned nude children? I never did. Xeno, explain and if you think I want to post nude children, I want an Apology. in here right f***ing now.

Haven't read through the whole thread, its gotten way to long and I'm late for a dinner date. I would like to say one thing though. The Tavern was NEVER a place for flaming and fighting while IB ran it. At least I never saw any of that. More of a place to calm down when some nitwit was flaming elsewhere. He ran the Bar with a flair that many a mod could learn from. I wonder why he was able to do so while others seem to have such difficulty? As has been said before. Many other sites have OT forums. Some are wide open to most anything, some allow far less, but there doesn't seem to be much of a problem HAVING OT forums anywhere but here. Curious that eh? Hmmmmm I wonder if it could have anything to do with Mods that are so quick on the trigger finger they suspend members for appologizing, or outright ban them for calling someone a "dufflebag"? Nah, that couldn't be it. :)

This thread is done, I'm locking now. I am really disappointed that this discussion couldn't continue in a civilized manner. Stacey Community Manager