So, users of AMax, what is your verdict? Is it worth the cost? Do you think that it works and looks better than M3? Any caveats, complaints, feature requests? Thanks, :)

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Attached Link: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=21103

If you haven't seen the thread at DAZ, check it out. It's long, but interesting, and mostly on-topic. People who love Apollo, people who hate him, people who loved him but now hate him, people who hated him but now love him...you name it. :-)

Me, I haven't decided yet. I really dislike his default look. His face looks effeminate to me. People have morphed his body a lot, but all the face morphs I've seen have had that odd, babyfaced look.

Mike 3 is in use sometime folder ( I really hate dealing with Him). Amax is OK, have not had time to use him much. I use David most of the time, he is my Fav.

The extra joint zones are the bomb for posing. It does increase pose time but results are really good. Shoulders and hip especially. He bends from the lower waist all the way to the knees as one zone so this wreaks havoc on the texture much more than mil figures. Many more morphs will follow I'm sure. Hopefully one to scale his hands and kneecaps, etc. If you plan to always have him clothed then he's there right now. I do wish all expressions were bunched together...

I've been drooling over all the various ApolloMax pics for weeks. I'm drooling even more now that he's out and people are doing stuff with him. And it looks like he comes with a whole lot of extra loot--more than I think I've gotten with any Daz character I've gotten. But for that price, there damn well better be a dial to make him pop out of the monitor, cook me dinner, and rub my feet. I may cave in and buy him before the sale is over, but right now it's looking like I'm going to stick with David.

Driver picks the music. Shotgun shuts his cakehole.

In his default outfit of course!!! ;) hehe I don't have him, but he looks rather yummy to me. And babyface? A babe, maybe, but not "baby faced".

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

The only hiccup I've run across is the way his new shoulders mess up clothing that has been converted via Wardrobe Wizard. New clothing that is made for him shouldn't have that problem.

I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.

Verdict: Totally worth it. This figure deserves to thrive. First thing I did with A.Max was a simple 100 frame pose-to-pose interpolation. The figure's movement in the animation was surprisingly realistic, I was very impressed. The more I realize what you can do with it the more I like it ... just need more time to master it, as it's different. I've done a bit of morphing with the face and love the options. Totally superb figure, just needs more textures (and yeah, I know they're on the way.)

After perusing the Daz3D thread (thanks, randym77!) and giving a look over the AM forum at RuntimeDNA (they need to make it more visible - go to Forums from the left menu and it's nowhere to be found (?)), I am impressed. The images showing variation, bending, and other improvements over other figures definitely have me sold. The cost is steep (considering available packages), but I'll just step into it slowly. :)

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

I've worked with this figure alot...I can't see going back to M3. To me its like M3 was to Dork. Once you get used to Apollo he's just so much easier to work with in terms of creating a character. As for costs, well, don't forget all those fun little DAZ add ons. I think AMAX is well worth it. -jay

Richardson, his hands ~are scalable. ;) As well as his feet and almost the rest of him. Yes, his default look is roundish and "babyfaced" but you can do a ton of stuff with the morphs he's got built in.

I know. I shouldn't complain. Lemme see... I have M2/V2, M3/V3/V3male, Stephanie Petite, David, Aiko3, Hiro, MilKids, YoungTeens, MilSkeleton, SkeletonAV. Should I keep going? ;P

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

I think Apollo is great, he is extremely versatile, and there is fantastic new technology and concepts as part of the package (e.g. ADS). It's been an expensive but exciting week with Apollo Maximus and the Wardrobe Wziard both being released. I can't imagine why they would want to release such a non-event like Renda straight after .....

Hola! Obviously I am biased. But I guess I can can just throw my pitch in. Simply, I have not received any negative email from customers. He's already sold hundreds of copies with overwhelming positive feedback. Most email uses phrases like "Awesome", "Blown away", "incredible", etc. People who are long time riggers/content makers are praising him for detail and quality. If you are a merchant, just a few sales of a product paid for the purchase costing you nothing. Any in the grand scheme of things, most people are going to spend $49.95 this year anyway, so you might as well get a whole figure bundle. People who have actually bought him are happy. If you are happy with what you have you should stick with what you have. Being a hobby we get to choose than goodness. But I will say without any hesitation, he is not less in quality to any poser figure you have bought to date. Is that diplomatic enough? I think the nervous stage is over. He is quality. And he does what I said he does. Hope that helps. hehe

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

So far I'm impressed with him, and as new items are released I'm sure others will gravitate to him. Can't wait for the new female. I love the fact that he looks so different from all the other male characters. Marque

Thanks for the personal response, Anton. So far I am very impressed with what I have seen of the figure. Now all I have to do is get RDNA to push through my Paypal payment (knew I shoulda used a CC). Should I give a "gentle" nudge? :)

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

i have never been able to get a face that i really like before with other figures but with apollo it was very easy for me and the guy im making looks so cute! the thing i like most of all is how you can get a really good looking nose! i think apollo has sooo many features and well worth the price! btw i think the default guy is cute to. lol

Anton...are you really working on a 'mate' for Apollo? oh joy, oh bliss!! if I could have a female model as wonderful as he looks, then I'd be all set! any tentative timeframe for release, if you are in fact working on one? ;D Karen

Say what you mean and mean what you say.

hehe. I don't know vey much at all about Paypal or how that works. I am sure it will get through as soon as possible. You never dawdle with money matters so I'm sure you'll be set soon. :)

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Blonderlla, yes I plan one but not in 2005. Apollo has all my attention as he deserves. So she will be Venus Maximus 2006 or some variation if I opt out of using Venus.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

YESSSSS!!!! that's fantastic Anton...you've made my day! and I dont mind the wait at all (well, maybe just a little...hehe), cause I know it'll be well worth it...thankyou thankyou! gets at the front of the line for Venus Maximus ;D

Say what you mean and mean what you say.

randym77, Who you callin' effeminate? :) I hope you realize I am j/k! :)

Well, I might be a bit prejudice, but Apollo Maximus is just plain awesome in my book!! And there is still so much yet to discover!!

Thatface cracks me up. "Yo Alice! Is the meatloaf ready yet?! My beer is getting warm!"

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Kal, that is so "Rocky" it's scary LOL!! Wonderful work ;)

I've found with Apollo, that although great attention has been paid to creating wonderfully detailed face morphs, his body morphs need work. The muscular definition in his arms and legs are almost non-existant. In fact, the "definition" dial for arms, forearms, legs, etc. simply plumps them up. There is no real "cut" look to this figure. The "muscular" dials create a body that appears to be carrying a bit of baby fat. With the exception of the abdominal group, there are no defined forearm, tricep, or thigh muscles, plus his calves look artificial, as does his upper back. But the real test for me has always been how the mesh handles the "both arms raised above the head" pose. Sorry, but Apollo does poorly here as well. Although his arms seem to look natural in that position, his pecs do not. And no manner of tweaking seems to be able to put them in their natural, flattened and raised position in that pose. (M2 still has no peer in that regard)

But, for the most part, Apollo is very posable. Each of his "shoulders" move independantly of the upper arms. Same for the "pelvis" which can be posed separately from the hip. (Thank you, Anton!)

Is it worth the price? Absolutely. Although David is still my favorite post-M2 figure, I think Apollo has a great deal of potential. After all this is only his first incarnation. Good work, Anton.

First?! Who said I'm bothering with another? You do one. lol :P Seriously. just kidding. hehe. We did update the product page preview images too. :)

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Apollo has a great potential...and with simple turn of deal You can create differents way of male characters... And the shape of the shoulders are ,finally,in the rigth way... After David & Hiro, Apollo is my favourite male figure... Gerardo from Italy

Hey gerardo! I loved that image! It is my desktop pic atm. Where did it go? hehe

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Oh there it is. :)

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

First?! Who said I'm bothering with another? :P

LOL. Actually, we're all hoping for a whole litter of Apollos (Apolli)? After you get some much needed rest, of course. :D

Litter!? Wow, he is prolific even before genital morphs applied. ;P It seems to be a good consensus that David and Hiro are good male figures. And, funnily, I agree. These two, now three with Apollo (and Starbuck female - hint, hint), are my favorite. Now, I only hope that my Poser->Cinema4D plugin, interPoser Pro, will be able to do justice to the JPs and other features.

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Apolli? Isn't that a town? Seriously though. Shape is a subjective. I did intend him to be flexible and soft-bodied. The baby fat was purposely added to offset "Plastic" references I have seen over the years. Also I just don't think 80K poly figures are the answer. The make the figures bend worse past a certain count. Diagnal cutlines are not joint friendly and cause half the problems with Poser/3d figures. If people who have done 4 generations of figures over 7 years still can't do it themselves that is saying maybe the method doesn't work? In Lord of the Rings, look at Glollum's arms. Count how many times his elbows go above his ears. During your own day count the number of times your elbows go over your ears. Watch the matrix and count.. etc etc. Moreso than legs, with arms you must make a choice. Polygons are polygons and you have to make choices in design. My choice was a figure that met 97% of pose needs. lol my motto is "Apollo wins hands down" No pun intended. :) Also JCM is not the answer. Rememebr he has none and poses so well. I could have put it in but where does that leave the clothing makers? I think JCM is deceptive. SHow me what it does without it. That is what I would want to know. Right? That way you know what clothes can do etc. Morphs can always be added by creator or user. I actually wish people would. They are allowed to. But the more you commit any one figure to a specific geom genre, the harder it is to get away from that with morphs. Has anyone ever noticed that all those figures with pretty kneecap cutlines all have the same problem? Why is that..the cutline maybe? See where I am going witht this? Besides if he was cut by default everyone would say he didn't look real. When you are dealing with artistic vision, you can't really win. :) Everyone thinks something different is "normal" or "correct". hehe Those crazy artists. Fore example, his default proportions are an alamgam of 7 different human proportional charts and I have seen some say his forearms are too short. Any longer and he would look like a chimp but go figure. hehe In the end each person should use what you like and what you enjoy. But if after all these years, and figures, you are still unhappy, buy Apollo. He isn't like anything else. OMG I am so chatty tonight. Way tooo much caffine. lol

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

With Poser, 80K poly figures are the answer. Well, the only answer while they use outdated polygon meshes when everyone else is using HyperNURBS and such. I must concur that joints is joints. Once set (hint to Renda), they are not something to be played with. Morphs, alternatively, can be added infinitum (or until your computer screams for mercy). I've just played a little with Apollo and I am very satisfied with what I see. You have definitely done your homework and applied your experience. With respect to the 'elbows above the ears' (At least you didn't say 'knees above the ears'. That's something else entirely!), I agree completely. The standard (and this is from those guys who make figures like Gollum) is that the arms should be defaulted to 45d down (between at your sides and straight out). Now, for some apps this is obviously not optimal since they prefer axially aligned default poses (the 'on the cross' pose - Poser for instance). But from the point of view of anatomy, this is the most natural pose from which to start wrt deformations anyway. Your arms will spend most of their time between these two minor extremes while spending little time raise above the ears or crossed in front of the chest (mainly reserved for Egyptian funerals). I think that it is good that you have designed Apollo from a unique perspective - it appears to have resulted in an optimal Poser figure. Too much caffeine earlier, too much rum later. Hey, it's my bd. I get to celebrate a little! :)

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Funny things about poses and joints. Really the legs should be bent too but that is not a pill to be swallowed lightly. I think the true neutral human position is fetal. In the end default to nature. But you can't make clothes for a fetus obj pose. :)

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

btw: Thanks!!!!! Hope you have fun. Remember the read-me and our forum for him.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Well, isn't it (for Poser) that you build the 'axially aligned' pose in the Setup room and then do the slight bends afterwards (Memorized pose) to facilitate IK? Without IK considerations, it's all about deformations (instead of IK solutions). But then, I see your point about 'relaxed' posture for poses. One would think that the natural default pose would be always at the median between the two extremes of the joints rotation capabilities, thus building-in the least amount of deformation for each direction of freedom. This is what makes Poser so unique, in my opinion. Most character design is based upon the needs of the end result. As in, if the figure isn't going to be kicking its legs up to its head in the end product (still, animation, feature film), why design for it? Or, build the clothes onto the figure since it will not be changing these during its actual usage. Only support the features needed towards that end is the mantra. But Poser designs on overall flexibility. There is no 'towards this specific end' mentality. And this adds complexity. This is why I think (and have voiced on occassion) the need for Poser to move to the next realm - or for an unforeseen competitor to do this. If you are going to make general, all-purpose human figures, then use the state of the art. Currently, we are using the state of 1991. ;) Great product, Anton. I will definitely be supporting this and looking impatiently forward to Starbuck/Venus/whatevernameIcanthinkofwhilewaiting. Don't forget to relax once in a while to reinvigorate your determination and drive! Thank you, Rober

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

I think he may just be the best figure ever created for Poser, if i was creating images rather than models i might just be tempted to forget the other male models in favor of Apollo...time will tell wether "may" and "might" become "is" and "would" (for me personally i mean)...2 things disapoint me though, 1 his long name LOL, come on Anton have a heart for us crap typers (and spellers, you should know better ;o) and 2 we are going to have to wait so long for the lady....Steve

After looking at all of the various posted images I sadly must pass on this figure HIs woeful lack of well defined muscle definition Makes him not usable for the Male images I prefer to render. I have looked at the "ethnic" morphs over at DNA and find then just to be variations of caucasion looks Anton is to be lauded in that for posing Apollo is step forward in poser technology in general and hopefully will signal the end of that ridiculous "morph injection" horseshit!! but alasI cant see him being of any use to me and will likely buy Wardrobe wizard to use on the venerable Mike 2 After all these years I still find mike2 the most versatile poser male for achieving unique looks as seen in my CG self Clone pictured here. **LONG LIVE MIKE2!!!!!**

My website

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Wolf, that's you? Can I get your number? ;) I just put through my purchase of Apollo Maximus. I love M3 and David, and Hiro is my new baby, but Apollo looks just... wonderful. Maybe it's because it's a male figure made by someone who isn't afraid of the male form, or maybe it's just because Anton has an urge to pay attention to detail. Everyone I've spoken to who owns him is incredibly happy with him. I just really hope he's worth the 50$ like everyone says, because right now, that's a big amount for me. :(

Kreations By Khrys

lol. No fair. you image is postworked!. hehe Like I have said so many time, but one more time won't kill me. "...he is what you dial him to be." Everyone has their own styles. And a texture makes all the differece. This is Apollo with a QUICK/SPLOPPY spin of the dials and darkening his default color from white to a quick color. Not trying to be you or anything. Just a quick spin and rather rushed. I really should have spent more time on the traps. I actually forgot to morph them. I wish I had more time. lol. (anyone figure out how I can clone myself, let me know!) Just because you haven't seen you fav rendered face or body doesn't meant you can't do it. This is just one of endless faces. Imagine what the right texture would do. That Mike2 face you have didn't come out of the box either.. hehe Know what I mean? You had to take the time to make it. But if you like Mike2 you should use Mike2. I like Mike2. I worked with Michael 2 for years and made tons of clothes for him. But please don't pigeon-hole Apollo's morphs as limited. They really aren't. They also reverse fully. :) Awsome pic btw. HAIL MAXIMUS!!!!!!!! :)

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Dang, Anton, can I get HIS number, too? :D

Kreations By Khrys

1-800-NOW-RDNA!! lol PS: Welcome aboard!

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Apollo ain't cheap (fifty bucks is fifty bucks whichever way you look at it), but I think it's a good value. You get a lot for that fifty bucks. I'm still trying to decide exactly how much I like AMax. He's a good figure from what I've seen so far, but I absolutely HATE his default look. That's not to take anything away from the work Anton's done. Like he said himself, taste is subjective. Ironically given that people in the past have complained about the Mike or Vicki "look" I've found that 90% of AMax renders I've seen so far have what I would term the "Apollo look" to them (it does seem to take quite a bit of effort and unlearning/relearning to get away from that). But the few different ones I've seen have been substantially different. And that gives me hope.

Now I just have to wait for the RDNA folks to approve my payment. And then I can download what I imagine is a very LARGE file. On a 56 k connection. WHEEE! :D (Anton's not the only one who's had too much caffiene today!)

Kreations By Khrys

Hey we all know what we paid for V3. I certainly remeber what we paid for M2. And you don't even want to know what I paid for the original Muscleman. The default look is exactly that. Defeault as in Neutral, as in indifferent, as in a base, something to start with, etc. Know what I mean? Now mind you, this is also Apollo. I could just keep dial-spin morphing the base into variant derivatives.. Let's see... I can do three and sell them all for the slightly less, sell the same morphs seperately, reuse the skinsuit three times, change the uv's enough so people need new maps, reuse all the morphs clothes, etc and get people to buy the same files three times. lol I just think it is funny Apollo is the figure some are skeptical about. Ok. hehe I'm going to bed. i am exhausted. Long day today. Night all! The caffine finally wore off.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Nice to see he does teen characters well. Wonder how he does effeminite boi types... Mwhehehehe... Sleep well, Anton. :)

Kreations By Khrys

Maximus looks so awesome! I'm eagerly wawaiting the end of this month so I can get some money and buy him. And he's CHEAP (at least at the sale price) because LOOK at what you GET: Character PLUS morphs PLUS bodysuit PLUS textures! Now ass up what Mike3 (or David) cost when they were out. And remember to put bodysuit and textures and morphs in that package too. All of a sudden, AM is CHEAP! DANG I just wish I had more than those measly $34 on my paypal right now looks impatiently @ calendar Khrys: If anyone can morph him into a bishi boi, it's you :o)

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You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
  Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.

ass up, ernyoka1? lol Did you mean "add up"? hehe Your typos are better than mine, though mine are more frequest...er frequent :)

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

laughs Hmm. David, ass up. Don't mind if I do!

Kreations By Khrys

wow just found him he is nice

========================================================
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Surgeon General recommends running the txt through a spell checker.

Hey, Khrys, are you going to create a Ganymede character for Apollo ?

laughs Maybe, Math. I've just gotten my download started. Does this mean there's an interest in a Ganymede like character for Apollo?

Kreations By Khrys

Khrys, I would be very interested in a Ganymede character for him :-)

In a world filled with causes for worry and anxiety...
we need the peace of God standing guard over our hearts and minds.
 
Jerry McCant

I agree AMax is a great figure, I have a few plans for him in the works. I am not worried about replacing M3 (or moreso david), they are simply different figures, which can build different looks. I appreciate the variety and think they all shall work well together. Rawn

I haven't been online for 3 days 'cos I've had Apollo Max for 3 days. He is a spectacular male model and although it does take time to learn how to use him it is very worth while. The first attempt I had with him didn't please me at all. I thought I was not going to be able to do anything with him, but, after a couple of days of twirling dials, I discovered it is so easy to get the character you are looking for, and what amazing characters he can be. I love David and Hiro but AM is even better than them and I don't think I'll be playing as much with the Mil figures any more. If you are going to create a miss Max Anton I will most definately be buying her too. After all he really neads a good woman to in his life........mother, wife, whatever. 8) Thank you Anton for this excellent figure, I'm so pleased he's finally arrived. 8) Catlin

My top three male figures:

1. Max (ApolloMaximus)
2. David
3. M2

Because of the extra body parts and the way he was rigged - Max poses much nicer then David & M2, which means less postwork on cracked joints and bulging or indented muscles and body parts ;) lol

RDNA supports their products so there's not a doubt in my mind there will be clothing and more skin textures for him. For now I've got WW - so I've got Max covered ;) And while I may not be able to create a seamless skin texture from scratch, I certainly know how to alter a pre-existing one and the included skin texture is a nice base to work with.

He needs more head morphs - but I say that about every figure I've ever purchased. lol

I've started playing around with displacement mapping veins, wrinkles and muscles in P5 - and my attempts have been pretty promising, hoping I'll inspire a talented pixel pusher to do better though.

I'm tired of hearing people bitch about his price. You get the figure, the head and body morphs, a high-res skin texture, a cat suit and a hair/beard figure for $50 bucks.

I paid $78 bucks for Vicky 1, and that was for just a figure and morphs from what I recall. I paid $29.95 to upgrade to Vicky 2 which wasn't even a new mesh, just some additional morphs and perhaps some joint tweaks. $42.20 to Upgrade to V3 - figure, head & body morphs and a high-res texture and I believe those were discounted prices because I was part of the Platinum Club (which I only joined btw because I was finally going to be able to purchase all the Anton goodies at DAZ I had been drooling over for a long time lol).

I can't remember what I paid for Mike 1 but I know he was naked, bald and skinless for a couple of months after purchasing him I was so broke ;) lol Upgrading to Mike 2 was $27.96, again just some additional morphs and perhaps joint tweaks. $36.66 (PC discounted) to upgrade to Mike3, figure, head & body morphs, didn't buy a skin tex that time around, bought UTC instead ;) lol M3 was a bit of a disappointment to me but I got Steph Petite ($15.70 for head and body morphs - PC discount) and the Freak ($12.23 for morphs & maps - PC discount) out of the deal so I didn't complain too loudly.

I got the complete David bundle for $48.98 - figure, head & body morphs, standard res tex map, clothing pack and hair). David was worth it even if he was just a re-worked M3 mesh with better JPs. lol David has not been supported too well as far as clothing is concerned but I've now got him covered with WW as well.

$50 for an innovative mesh is reasonable as far as I'm concerned.

Jade, it's hardly bitching, it's a valid worry. A lot of us HAVE been bitten in the ass by new figures promising lots of wonderful things that they just can't do. (Renda, for example, to use a recent one.) I know I felt horribly let down when I first got M3 (which is why I started supporting the character with add ons, later.) For a lot of us, 50$ is a substantial investment, for not having a demo to play with. When something's in pieces like V3 was, you can buy them as you need. Also, Daz3d has the benefit of a 30 day no questions asked money back guarentee. If you don't like it, you don't have to explain why or even have a good reason. Am I saying Apollo was a bad value? I don't know yet, I'm still downloading and it may take me a while to decide, either way. From what I've seen, he looks like a good investment. (Considering I've had five or six people ask me already when I'd be making a pretty boy set for him, I think it's a good sign.) And yes, David and Hiro are both WONDERFUL figures, poorly supported by the community. Half the time, when David does get support, it's either too expensive to buy or too low quality. And actually, David wasn't a reworking of M3's mesh. He was a reworking of Steph Petite's mesh that started, IIRC, as a male morph pack for her and bloomed into a full on male figure that is wonderful and whom I love. :D

Kreations By Khrys

*randym77,

Who you callin' effeminate?*

OMG! That looks just like my Aunt Patsy!

;-)

Been playing with Apollo for about twenty or so minutes now, give or take. So far, so good. His zeroed pose threw me, a little. I thought he was wanting a hug. But now I see why he was positioned like this, it makes sense. Every time, so far, I've thought 'Well, he should have x morph', I scroll up or down, and there it is. He looks good in default, and with a little tweaking, I'll be able to produce good morphs (Which is not to say that his existing morphs aren't good, they ARE good.) He scales like a dream come true, so far. I've always had a problem with the way necks are set up on Poser figures, not easily allowing us to lengthen the neck for more graceful proportions. No such problem with Apollo. I know I've gotten my money's worth. He's a good investment. :)

Kreations By Khrys

My biggest concern is that with his altered default pose and 'different' part names, I apparantly can't use BVH files with him. Keyframe animation can be tedious, and when possible I'd love to have the option to use BVH files. I don't suppose a low rez version that's BVH compatible will ever be available? Or maybe it's possible to create alternate rigs and one could be set up for animation. Hmmm. That's an interesting thought. Can rigging be saved and transferred from figure to figure? I've never heard of that and have no idea...

Before they made me they broke the mold!
http://home.roadrunner.com/~kflach/

Actually there is no postwork in my render except a tiny white
highlight each eyeball this is rendered in maxon cinema4DXL 8.5
via the free interposer plugin
the sparse head hair and tattoo is my custom map added to the original DAZ M2 hi-res textures
and the chest hair was grown in C4D
the skin was augmented at rendertime by a C4D skinshader called "Chanlum".

your quicky here is the best ive seen so far Anton, you are the Master!!!!
I would REALLY be impressed if someone could make Apollo look like actors "Danny glover" or "wesley snipes" or hardcore rapper "50Cent"

And as Bobasaur mentioned his lack of compatibility with my vast LIBRARY of BVH files is a major drawback also. So right now im going to splurge on Philc's WW
and get my clone outfited for some exciting new animation work.
thanks for your input Anton and congrats on this release. :-)

Message edited on: 06/23/2005 12:46

My website

YouTube Channel

wolf359 .... Be prepared to do JP work on the converted outfits. For animation the action may go fast enough not to be noticeable. For stills though, a lot of work and I still haven't gotten what I call a totally satisfactory result. Yes, I'm picky.

I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.

I'm going to stand by my previous comments about Apollo not being a "cheap" figure. But I also stand by my statement that it is a good VALUE. And FWIW I believe the figure is WORTH the price tag. Anton said: "The default look is exactly that. Defeault as in Neutral, as in indifferent, as in a base, something to start with, etc." Yep, I know. Which is why I didn't let his default look stop me from buying Apollo when he was released. It looks like you've got a big hit on your hands Anton, and I'd say you deserve it. Definitely consider me part of the group that anxiously awaits the release of Apollo's counterpart figure next year.

wolf359 .... Be prepared to do JP work on the converted outfits. For animation the action may go fast enough not to be noticeable. For stills though, a lot of work and I still haven't gotten what I call a totally satisfactory result. Yes, I'm picky.<<< Joint parameter work ???!! does the WW program com with instruction how to do this??? I only plan on converting from V3 to V2 and M3 to M2 how much "correcting" are we taking here.....sigh!!

My website

YouTube Channel

Ah, converting to those figures, not much if any, depending on clothes and figures used. Yes there is a video included that covers the JP's. View it.. very helpful. I took your post to mean you were going to convert to Apollo. Jackets, shirts or other that encompass the arms require JP correction. I haven't mentioned his splayed feet. One area at a time. WW will be a big help for what you just mentioned.

I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.

wolf359 - WW comes with a video tutorial on how to tweak clothing JPs and there's always a lot of help and support at the Yahoo groups when having a problem converting a particular outfit.

Well Apollo wins hands down for me! You not only get apollo but no one mentions that he has clothing when you get him! They say skin suits, but they have morphs to loosen the legs and stuff so they aren't skin tight! Thats a plus right there, as you needen't worry about him running nekkid! And he comes with a great texture map.Not to mention the beards. Thought I would just mention this because for the price, your getting more than just a figure! And a Damn good figure I might add! And if anyone hasn't seen yet poserworld is already supporting him! Besides a space suit, I just saw where Steve posted a Cop suit for him and he makes a handsome looking cop!

Poser 9 SR3  and 8 sr3
=================
Processor Type:  AMD Phenom II 830 Quad-Core
2.80GHz, 4000MHz System Bus, 2MB L2 Cache + 6MB Shared L3 Cache
Hard Drive Size:  1TB
Processor - Clock Speed:  2.8 GHz
Operating System:  Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 
Graphics Type:  ATI Radeon HD 4200
•ATI Radeon HD 4200 integrated graphics 
System Ram:  8GB 

On to PoserWorld to pillage! Avaunt! :)

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

I would REALLY be impressed if someone could make Apollo look like actors "Danny glover" or "wesley snipes" or hardcore rapper "50Cent"

Ooh, me, too.

And is there a decent Asian morph?

Xurge just made armor for him too, it looks great and is on sale at his site too (www.xurge3d.com). I hope the support keeps on coming and we start seeing some third-party textures too. :) SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

I think apollo looks yummie just the way he is comming out of the box. I have not had a chance to buy him yet. I'm fighting the bank over a 33.00 service charge at the moment They better beware us gay guys have the art of being bitchy down to a science. LOL. Brad.

randym77 askied "And is there a decent Asian morph?" The selection is actually quite broad; there are a LOT of options when it comes to spinning the dials. This can be both good and bad depending on your point of view.

To clarify my above post: With Apollo, t's not so much a question of "is there a good (insert favorite) morph?" as it is "can I find a good combintion of dial spins to create the look I'm after?"

This is what makes Apollo very powerful and versatile IMO but at the same time makes him kind of daunting.

Message edited on: 06/23/2005 17:12

But it's good to learn new things :) hehehehe...I do really like the fact that he has very few canned morphs, it's like you spin dial and you never know what you are going to come up with :) And they also work just as well in reverse :) I do have the beginnings of a list of morphs for the head that I would like to see, going to start on a body list soon too :) Just like shoes, you can never have too many morphs!!

I highly recommed Apollo & look forward to Antons female model..I'll snatch it up as soon as it is released. Outstanding model & innovation IMHO. BRAVO!

This is a great model. I hope everyone gives him a chance and that he gets a great deal of support :)

I love that face. hehehe.

Regarding Wardrobe WIzard. It is a testimant to how great the program works that any Mil clothing can be converted to Apollo by easily clicking buttons.

AS I always said, I bet the horse could be done too. Apollo is so very different than any of the other figures.

It is just common sense that similar, cut, posed figures convert easier to each other.

Apollo on the other hand is , being a new figure design, in a different pose and has new bodyparts. Personally I never thought a conversion could be done to such a different rig period. Just goes to show how geart Wardrobe Wizard is to work with such different styles of figure design.

I think Phil should try to add the horse just for fun and to gag the naysayers. hehehe. I think WW is the best Poser Clothing Utility to ever exist.

Message edited on: 06/23/2005 22:05

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Unfortunately, Apollo's Asian morphs don't seem to be authentic. The eyelids just get smoothed over. I'll be working on some morphs for that, as well. :)

Kreations By Khrys

There are no specific morphs or dials called "asian". All shaping morphs. The ethnic dials are not specifically asain.

These are the relevant dials to play with

BrdgRaise
BrdgWide1 Space between eyes to forehead in/out
BrdgWide2 Space between eyes to forehead in/out
BrdgWide3 Space between eyes to forehead in/out
BrowSharp
Browbone1
Browbone2
Browbonee3
EyeCrease
EyeCube makes sockets round or square
EyeEthnic1 2 styles
EyeEthnic2 2 styles
EyeEthnic3 2 styles
EyeRotX axis rotation
EyeRotY axis rotation
EyeRotZ axis rotation
EyeSz1 scaling morph
EyeSz2 scaling morph
EyeSz3 scaling morph
HdEthnic1 2 variations
HdEthnic2 2 variations
HdEthnic3 2 variations
LidsHeavy
LidsHooded

Message edited on: 06/23/2005 22:36

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Post an image?

who me? of what?

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

You or Khrys. Of an Asian face.

Khrys says he's having trouble. Maybe if he posted his effort, you could make suggestions.

Or you could show us how it's done. :-)

Oh I see. You have to rememeber that unlike other figures, the morphs are reversible. Each dial is two looks or options. The browbone morphs affect the sockets. Also eyes tired in reverse affect the aperature of the eye etc. It really is quite fun seing what things do in reverse. The reverse values don't distort like other figures. They have complete destination styles. This is a quick one, but there are as many styles of asian and eyes as there are women and lips. This is an example. I could have flattened the nose and such but I like to say away from the sterotypical looks. Rendered in P4

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

The power of the morphs to reverse is incredible and my favorite thing. I could do a science paper on the theory but basically it is like ying and yang.

The asian face above uses 2 dozen or so morphs. I reset each on to it's exact opposite value whatever it is and this is the reverse face.

Fun stuff. It is difficult to try and explain to people who doubt every word, but I really did put alot of complex thought into this figure.

This type of effort isn't going to be found in other figures.

Message edited on: 06/24/2005 06:08

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Lashes are off in both pics.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Hmmm. I see what Khrys means about the eyelids.

The only thing that really bugs me about DAZ's figures, and every other figure I've tried, is the lack of good ethnic morphs. DAZ has some that look nice, particularly in their International Beauties package...but they only look nice if you leave the face in neutral. Try to show some expression, and it looks awful. Either ugly and unnatural, or downright scary (teeth protruding from the cheek, etc.). Maybe it's just not possible to make expressive ethnic faces if the mesh was modelled as Caucasian.

shakes his head and goes back to work

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Sorry, meant no disrespect. This is just my pet peeve; bugs me a lot more than bending or "exploding butt syndrome." I do appreciate the time you took to post the images.

I'll work on an epicanthic fold morph or two for him. The problem is that most of the older meshes were completely unable to handle an Asian eye shape, due in part to low polycount. Apollo Maximus shouldn't have a problem with it, since his eyes are nice and hi res. :)

Kreations By Khrys

This is a collage of randomized faces from morph randomizer. the settings for the shaping dials were set to 1.75 and -1.75 Other figures cannot handle this range with such smooth and diverse morph recipe results. This was just one batch of randomized faces generated. ANd it was done by a program. i would imaging I could have spawned these into morphs to boast a blaoted cr2 with 100's of morphs. But I have faith in the user to be creative. lol Or I think I do. Not sure lately though. Seems people want everything done for them artistically. :) Anyway, the morphs are realistic and at extreme values can be charactures as seen here. No Phonemes or open mouth morphs were used in the randomizng.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Sound good Khrys. Be fun to see what you come up with.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

hehehe - I have Morph Randomizer too and was playing with it last night with Max's head morphs. Some of the faces it came up with were very funny! lol As I went through the faces it generated, I was struck by how expressive his face is even without using any of the expression morphs. Was also surprised sometimes at the particular combination of morphs that was used to generate the face. Gave me a better idea of what each morph does and how they combine together. Let's face it - I've been using Zygote/DAZ figures for four or five years now. I'm used to their morphs and their naming conventions for morphs. I pretty much know what a particular morph is going to do and how it combines with the other morphs to shape the character that I want. It's going to take a bit for me to get used to Max's morphs and how their named and how they work together. But the more I spin, the more impressed I am with this figure. The assymmetry morphs rock! lol

I like Randomizer. I had forgottent hat I had it. And some of the faces you get are just soo hysterical.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

This thread convinced me. I have a handful of DAZ guys, and I've never, ever, used any of them because they all look like Aryan morons with family values. I stuck with the vaguely Mediterranean P5 guy until James appeared, using the Face Room to generate faces that don't look like they came off Reich military posters. The publicity shot of AMax put me off a bit, because it's so obviously gay that I worried that all I'd be getting is a boy toy. This thread settled my worries -- tremendous diversity, and a design based on anatomy, not "the white norm". And Anton's REVERSE MORPH demo clinched the deal. I've struggled with -dials since V1 to try to get some variety into their "Cosmo with family values" homogeneousness. (What I love about Steph is her "plainness.") It may not be obvious what a -Asian face should look like, but doesn't take rocket science to figure out that the reverse of Big_Boob_17 ought to look something like a normal chest. (What kind of family values give you seventeen breast enhancers and no way to put a bump in the nose?) Thank you, Anton. Buying at RDNA as I write. Now if someone could just get the Yamato gang interested in turning Jessi from wonderful statuary into a real girl.... (High hopes for the Netherworks Morph Pack, which I picked up yesterday, but still no nipples, and her chest is still one body part. Sigh. Teach me to complain about breast enhancers.) M

That is incerdible. Add some ramdom skin tone changes and you have a whole bunch of unique looking characters. And hair, of course. Hmm. I wonder if anyone has tried Kozaburo's Rei hair on him,,, [Can you say "Emo Phillips" - grin]

Before they made me they broke the mold!
http://home.roadrunner.com/~kflach/

okay here is one of my Morph Randomizer faces - he reminds me of a stereotypical English butler so I call him Edgar ;) lol

I have always admired Anton's talent. With the release of Max, I think the pedestal that I've got him on has gotten quite a bit higher. If I had one tenth his magic, skill, and smarts, I'd be a happy camper. 8-D He's also a LOT of fun to talk to (hehehehe - Anton, not Max!)

That face is cool. Very Dicken's was my thought. hehe Thanks Deecey. No no no no pedestal. lol. Too kind really.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

I'll work on an epicanthic fold morph or two for him. The problem is that most of the older meshes were completely unable to handle an Asian eye shape, due in part to low polycount. Apollo Maximus shouldn't have a problem with it, since his eyes are nice and hi res. :)

That would be great. I love your Xie character, especially the eyelid morphs.

Do you think you'll be able to get an authentic Asian look for Apollo, while maintaining expressiveness? That is something I've never seen with the DAZ figures. It's either/or. A fake ethnic look, or a genuine ethnic look with very limited facial expression.

I have talked about the evils of morph recycling a lot latley. And what you have encountered in expressions is a symptom of it. When you use morph to make new morphs and faces they become less compatible when they encounter themselves again. For instance. Take Stephanie Petite. When they changed her face and those chnages filtered down the V3 morph list a lot of eye morphs were lost because the very movements that went into the base face were magnified when the morphs updated. That is why the inner sockets lift away fromt the eye. Reusing morphs is like making a clone of a clone of a clone. Over time they degrade and become less and less usable. Each morph is made based on the original shape they were created for. So as the base changes, the morph comphensation doesn't always jive with the new head. Every figure needs to have a completely fresh and unrecycled morph set. Lets tak an asian face for instance. Lets say you dial up an asian face for Vicki and raise her eyebrows way up. Then you make Amiko5 from that morph. Well the old morphs will double anytime it encounters asian features or lifted brows from the morph list. This is why morph lists are growing smaller than they used to be. They are degrading to the point of slowly becoming unsuable. Not that is isn't fun or pretty to use dialed morphs for new heads and faces. But a professional character must have all unique morphs, each done from scartch to avoid compounding. After all faces are made.. only then are expression morphs done to ensure compatibilty at extreme ranges. I don't know if that makes sense but that is my opinion.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

"I hope the support keeps on coming and we start seeing some third-party textures too. :)"

Did someone say 3rd party textures?

They are coming, they just got to pass testing. L.

oh cool!!! Those eyes especially look so great!

Message edited on: 06/24/2005 11:01

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Nice work Lobo, very nice :) What is this "morph randomizer" product that you guys are talking about?

Thanks for the explanation, Anton. I guess it's sort of good news, in that you don't need a whole new mesh. Just all new morphs. :-/

If someone made such ethnic morph packs, that included Mimic morphs, expression morphs, etc., that worked with the new face (or even some of DAZ's existing ethnic head morphs), I would buy them.

Randomizer Version 1 By Kattman & Lyrra (kattman@carolina.rr.com) (lyrra@renderosity.com, lyrra@cyclopsstudio.com) I forget where it is sold.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Just looked it up, it's sold here LOL!! Thanks Anton :)

"because it's so obviously gay" Interesting...a 3d figure being gay. I didn't know they had feelings, thoughts, desires, or emotions and just by looking at something you can't tell if it's gay or not. On to Apollo....Anton, when you muscle up Apollo (even just a little) the shin bones seem to become sharp or rather a very defined pointed edge. Could there possibly be someting to correct that that I'm missing. Also, I'd love to be able to make thin lips but I can't fiind a way. They either get pushed into each other or pulled back into the face and from a side view, that looks rather strange. I'd love to be able to make a chiseled, handsome looking, classic style face but can't seem to make one. Thanks

"because it's so obviously gay" Oh God! I WISH! Most of the gay men I know are old, fat, balding, and set in their ways. Oh wait.... that's me.

I thought that was UG. He's old, fat, balding and most certainly set in his ways. just funning.

I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.

"So obviously gay...." Sorry, I didn't realize we were doing PC. I'm reasonably sure those of us who have seen Tom of Finland cartoons know what I meant, but never mind. And, by the way, I spent an hour fiddling with AM dials this afternoon. Very impressive: a fabulous selection of face dials and the "Line of Sight" object is brilliant. Impressive and easily worth the price, especially when you consider that the comparable V3 (I never bothered with M3, as far as I can remember), meaning base, face pack and body pack, weighs in at 100 megs. AM is a 28 meg zip. Kudos. M

nickleshield, Take UG and apply Max as a morph at .5 and you've got me. Scarey isn't it?

Not a pretty sight. Shudders to think about it.

I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.

Mouth Tighten is good for thin lips as are lipsFull in reverse, but mix and match. For chiseled faces look at the "Ch_brad, tome, etc" and "headHealth" "HeadWeight" and the other various contour morphs. The sin line cabe be affected by three morphs "DefineLegs" +/- "BodyMuscles" +/- "BodyDefinition" +/- "SizeLegs" +/- "BodyWeight" +/- Those are the biggies. Perphaps using the body morphs more subtly and then moving into the individual section morphs will help you get the look you want. Don;t forget to use the timeline to blend/calm/and hybrid your character poses and faces. ThnakS!!!!!!!!! have fun. Anyone see that image at PoserPros..Maximus the First? Anyway remember our ApolloMax forum

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Anton, The image at PoserPros that you mentioned...did you notice that the entire image had been painted over. It's a little obvious in the neck area on the right hand side. It's a nice image but not a true render. Would like to have seen the original unpainted version.

lol. Yeah it is hard not to notice it is a complete paint over. I think the whole point was to be a painting. All in all, I can see the morphs in there.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Cherokee, LipFat2 also works well for thin lips. You can run it backwards to about -2.

"So obviously gay...." Sorry, I didn't realize we were doing PC. Well, if you do not have a MAC, you have to be doing PC! ( RC runs away before people start throwing trash at him! )

ratscloset
aka John

I never thought of the sexuality aspect. Pose rpeople will do anything from the renders I have seen. So I think they are "Omnisexual"

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Personally, I don't even see a Tom of Finland look to the figure. All of Tom's artwork featured over muscled, massively beefy to a point of unrealisticness men. Anton's character, by default, is slightly above average on the muscular scale, but unless you were referring to the 'freak like' image to the right, in the main part... Not very ToF. I find it amusing to think of base models as having sexual orientations based on their appearance. If Apollo Maximus had been wearing a leather harness and crotchless/assless pants, leading a guy around on a leash... yeah, that's a clue that the image the artist wants to project is of a gay man. By the way. When will Apollo be getting his harness and assless chaps? (And the guy to lead around!) :D

Kreations By Khrys

He already has a slave to lead around - David! ;)

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

It's unfortunate that peopel are having problems understanding that a morphable figure almost has to be in some "neutral" state by default... too much detail or too strong a shape causes huge problems when trying to morph a figure without mesh problems. Much better to have the "basic" figure neutral.