Your two cents of what the new Renda character should be. Obviously they need to start from scratch, but looking at what we have what truly would you like to see? Any innovations you can think of. I think renderosity needs a character that truly holds your imagination and inspires you.

The problem is compatibility, if you want that the new character be compatible with existing clothes and poses will create great limitations and the result will be something similar to Vicky. A really new character needs another division of body parts and joints, the existent one are wrong!.

Stupidity also evolves!

They could work with PhilC and they can use WW to overcome those limitations as far as clothing goes.

It should be started from scratch. It's absurd to expect people to pay to downgrade V3 via RTE from V3 to Renda as it currently exists. Why would anyone in their right mind do such a silly thing? You'd do better to simply invest in V3 items. Renda needs to be retired, period. The disrespectful manner in which it was released and the subsequent revelations of its impropriety have permanently tainted the name "Renda" in my opinion. However, Renderosity should pursue a new "Renda" with a different name if they want to have their own site-associated figure(s.) Ideally, it should offer something different enough from V3 to attract those who already use V3, or those who have had enough of V3-like female meshes. There's considerable interest in variety and alternatives to the Unimesh family, as was made obvious by the considerable community excitement over Apollo Maximus.

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I personally do not have bad feeling towards Renderosity over what took place.

Live and learn.

So here is your opportunity to let them know what you want?

I think Renderosity provided great amusement for me with that Renda debacle.

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This Figure should be buried like the tyco monolith on earths moon. ....................................period. ************************************************************************ we dont need another skinny assed pinhead vicky3 clone with 50 billion injection/delta/chan/vis/pbdcm blah blah BLAH horse shit!!! to deal with. *********************************************************************** No thanks ************************************************************************ take a freakin clue from Anton Kissel ;-)

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"This Figure should be buried like the tyco monolith on earths moon. ....................................period. ************************************************************************ we dont need another skinny assed pinhead vicky3 clone with 50 billion injection/delta/chan/vis/pbdcm blah blah BLAH horse shit!!! to deal with. *********************************************************************** No thanks ************************************************************************ take a freakin clue from Anton Kissel ;-)" I couldn't have said it better. :)

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I want them to say who will be creating the figure, upfront. That's the only way people will trust them now, IMO. Hire modellers who have good reputations in Poserdom. Yes, it will cost more. But probably less than this debacle cost them.

I really liked what Blackhearted did for Renda the morphs Something like that would be a good starting point.

I hate the name Renda.

Tycho monolith, eh? Would the unearthing of that involve a painfully loud noise and an expedition to Jupiter?

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Yes, a figure that looks like one of Blackhearted's would be nice, if only because she would be shaped differently from V3.

The name "Renda" has to go. She's damaged goods now. You wouldn't name your new boat the Titanic. The new figure should have a new name.

A little off the subject but I would love to see what Blackhearted could do with A3. Take her to a new level he would.

And M3 as well, I would love to see Michael or David with a toned body. I know you can tone them down but Blackhearted does have a way with morphs. 8^) Marque

Renda should be in the trash. Sick n damn tired of all the same re-hashed items over & over & over & over & over. If you can't create something original, don't waste your time and don't try to fool us, the consumers that you have done something original. Thank god I have eyes & didn't get fooled into this latest debacle. Note: I'm not capable of creating anything from scratch, so I admit that up front before the torches & pitchforks come out :D

OK, what would be interesting enough for me to purchase a new female figure?

• A more realistic size. Vicki is just too tall at 6 feet. 5'5 would be better
• Vastly improved shoulder and elbow joints, probably with JCM
• Vastly improved hip/thigh bends, probably JCM
• JCM muscle morphs.
• Decent P5/P6 support (something that DAZ still doesn't do too well), like grouping the dials, P5/P6 materials.
• Hi-poly plus low-poly meshes
• Hires plus lores maps
• Have it developed by good, trusted, well-known modelers/riggers/texturers and let everyone know who's on the development team.
• Include a basic clothing set, both (super)conforming and dynamic
• Include hair, both transmapped and dynamic
• Multiple IK chains, I'd like to see IK chains that end at elbow (good for arms resting on tables and the like) and knee (sitting/kneeling poses) in addition to the normal IK chains.
• IK off by default (rename the leg IK chains)
• Decent genitals
• Additional finger dials on the hands (see the P6 figures)
• If possible, a clothing conversion tool, magnet based, that can convert existing (preferably V3) clothing to the new figure. It also has to include a donor CR2 that can be used by clothes modelers. Plus a magnet set that can generate the applicable morphs in the converted clothes. Should be Python based and run in ProPack.
• Python-based ERC for P5/P6 users.

A couple of these things would be true innovations. And I believe THAT is what is needed to create a flagship product. And don't make her too generic. V3 is very generic, and the result is that whatever morphs are applied, she looks like V3. Better to create a figure that is completely optimized for e.g. a young adult Caucasian female of about 5'5", and later create another figure that is completely optimized for e.g. an older Asian female figure of about 5'2". Should result in better joint parameters for both figures.

Message edited on: 06/30/2005 18:00

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You can start by renaming Renda. Call it: "The TURD."

"The TURD" Is that an acronym for True Unmitigated Renderosity Debacle?

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" - A more realistic size. Vicki is just too tall at 6 feet. 5'5 would be better - Vastly improved shoulder and elbow joints, probably with JCM - Vastly improved hip/thigh bends, probably JCM - Decent P5/P6 support (something that DAZ still doesn't do too well), like grouping the dials, P5/P6 materials. - Hi-poly plus low-poly meshes - Hires plus lores maps - Have it developed by good, trusted, well-known modelers/riggers/texturers and let everyone know who's on the development team. - Include hair, both transmapped and dynamic - IK off by default (rename the leg IK chains) - Additional finger dials on the hands (see the P6 figures) " Plus: -Switching "High-Heel" and Flat feet -Poseable Breasts, Poseble Upper Head -Two layer Pubic hair overlay - Basic morphs included with package - Ultra Low Price! Gee, what if she was already available? ;-)

Hi Jim, Does that mean that Glamorous Jessi is ready? I haven't been following the recent developments too closely...

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Oh, I can't say, I've gotten in enough trouble here already. However, when I saw that list, and how well it fit a certain female figure (about 9 out of 12)... ;-) I can say this- you might want to wander over to Content Paradise and look around.

A solution to the End'a Renda is so easy it's all in the thread TPB probably didn't really read. Most people like Blackhearted's char better then V3Renda already, so pay BH to remap and mold the geometry, export BH's final character and scale up or down a tad. Contact Xfx3d, Anton, Burton, Neftis, Etc... and see who can do a recut of the mesh, new Rig, add expression morphs. Release poser's first, ready, no need to morph to look decent character. Contact Phil C and add to WW asap. Give her an axe or sword and temple in the base package too.

Message edited on: 06/30/2005 18:46

As stated above.

Ditto what everyone else said.

Why does it have to be "Renda"? Here's a thought, why not a MALE flagship character? Oh wait, that'd ruin the market for looks-like-she's-got-a-pair-of-watermelons boob morphs. :-P

What a mess is this Renda incident, huge threads at every forum, very nasty things had been said of her and the way Rosity handle this, very upset and angry people etc... Horrendous! A new figure in poserdom should be like byAnton's A Maximus, all excitement, positive feedback and the feeling of being part of a community that is always moving forward. So what would I like Renda to be? well less horrenda and more Oh, Renda!

Two questions: Python based ERC? Posable upper head? What does that mean. Asking because I am building my own figures for my own use.

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Python based ERC I'm guessing would mean using callbacks on various parameters.

Python based ERC: ERC is a "hack" that allows conforming clothing to copy the morph dial settings from the figure it is conformed to. It is based on a bug in Poser 4/PP. In Poser 5 and 6 this bug is eliminated, but that also means that the ERC trick does no longer work. On the other hand, Python support in P5 and P6 is much improved. By Python-based ERC I mean installing callback functions that will automatically adjust clothing morph settings when a figure morph dial is turned or a body part is posed differently. I have some ideas on how to do it, but I haven't had the time to test my theories yet. Posable upper head? That's one for Jim Burton.

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Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=2320175

In case no one knows yet, Renda has been pulled completely from the store. You can read about it at the link (down near the bottom). mac

My advice is to make her unique and with a look that no other figure has. I suggest maybe making her a little more androgenous and edgy. She needs her own mapping as well as grouping and rigging that can give her a functionality distinctive to her.

Seconding the motion y'all should hire Anton to do the new one.

I'd like to stick my neck out and predict that, 9 - 12 months from now, after 2 months of "modelling work", somebody we never heard of before will come out with a "new" male character which, 12 hours after its release, will be found to have plagiarized either Mike 3 or ApolloMax geometries, JPs, etc.

I beg to differ, ERC works fine in Poser 5 and 6, including matching JCM in the clothing. It actully works better than in Poser 4 and PP. It isn't really a bug either, it is just being used in ways that weren't thought of by the creators of Poser, but it still follows the original rules. Posable upper head? Gee, let's suppose you had a base mesh that you changed around, except for the head, the original head was fine, and came in both a hi-res and low-res version. However, the head was slightly mis-shapen, with rather a too-big upper head, sort of an "egghead" effect. You could fix it either by morphing, or, more nicely, by having a new, "ghost" upper head that could be scaled and even rotated in "x". Nifty, what? ;-)

Hate to be such a pessimist but honestly, mateo, that's a sucker bet. 100 galleons sez it'll be ApolloMax, not Mike, getting the clone treatment. :-P

I second what Jim said - ERC does work in P5/P6 and in clothing. It just has to be written a certain way... This in clothes: valueOpDeltaAdd Figure 1 rCollar:1 zrot deltaAddDelta -0.020000 instead is written like this: valueOpDeltaAdd Figure rCollar zrot deltaAddDelta -0.020000 and you make sure the figure is selected before adding the clothes to the scene. And it works.

.

The best results I ever got with ERC was when I wrote it this way: valueOpDeltaAdd conformingTarget rCollar [morphname] deltaAddDelta 1.000 I always do multiple character scenes. ERC tends to work in single character scenes but seriously messes up in mulitple character scenes. I've written a little Python script that copies the morph seettings from a character to its conformed clothes - doesn't matter whether the character or one of its conforming clothes is selected. It still needs some tweaking (it doesn't copy morphs from non-matching actors - yet). It's possible to attach a python script to a cr2 or pp2 that runs on loading the figure/prop. That script then would have to install a callback function that gets called whenever the figure is conformed to another figure (or in the case of a prop, when it is parented to a figure). And this callback then should install other callback functions that would copy morph/JCM values from the conformingTarget to the clothing figure/prop. I'm still figuring out how to handle deletion of clothing figures and prop - the callbacks should be removed then. The main advantage of this approach would be the total and complete elimination of crosstalk. I'm going to try the the Netherworks approach too. It IS a lot easier to do.

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• A more stylized, less realistic shape. About 5'8" tall. - Vastly improved shoulder and elbow joints, without using hacks, but instead actually learning to use the system in place instead of fighting it. In short, skill in rigging over skill in hacking. - Vastly improved hip/thigh bends. See above. - Decent P5/P6 support (something that DAZ still doesn't do too well), like grouping the dials, P5/P6 materials. - Medium Density Meshes - A Skin shader that makes use of maps not more than 512 pixels square. Multiple maps, natch. - The comapnay that makes it to actually be willing to stand behind the product. - Include a basic clothing set - Include hair, both transmapped and dynamic - Multiple IK chains, I'd like to see IK chains that end at elbow (good for arms resting on tables and the like) and knee (sitting/kneeling poses) in addition to the normal IK chains. - IK off by default (rename the leg IK chains) - No genitals. (I really have no use for them in the work I do at present) - Additional finger dials on the hands (see the P6 figures) - A magnet set released with the figure that will allow for alteration of clothing to work with it (see some of the fitting rooms in products over at RDNA) - Use of displacement, specular, ambient, and translucence maps. - A walk room structure ready to go for use with the figure. - Poses, at least 30 basic and 30 animated series. Incidentally, Jim Burton's comments on ERC are dead on the money, with the exception that it was a bug in P4/PP, while it is not in P5/6 (which is why it works better). Also, while I might think that certain hacks are an easy cheat, that doesn't invalidate or demean the works that do use them. Mr. Burton's work with JCM is phenomenal, and demonstrates the value of that approach quite all by itself, thank you. Its just not the one I happen to feel is the better approach.

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• Must be able to perform all the Kamasutra positions without the joint's polygons going to hyperspace.

Stupidity also evolves!

Huh? I can't even get my body into all the Kamasutra positions!!!! Especially that Lotus blossom on a water lily with petals position. I can never figure out where my other leg is supposed to be in that one.

Your specialist military, sci-fi, historical and real world site.

The new figure should have a different shaped face, different from v3 stephanie 3 etc.

Internet drama is funny. Renderosity is a good source for it.

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" Huh? I can't even get my body into all the Kamasutra positions!!!!" Well....., I cannot fly, but Superman can do it. I want Superman!

Stupidity also evolves!

"Your two cents of what the new Renda character should be." ??? IMHO it should be a long time coming ;) Cliff

Here's a thought, why not a MALE flagship character? :: taking a look at the store for only a few seconds :: You cannot be serious. This place would implode.

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lol A long time coming indeed. :P

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Ahm, it seems that Renda has gone out of the shops?!?

By way of unsolicited testamonial: Glam Jessi is the biggest bargain on the planet, if she's still $4.95 at Content Paradise. And Apollo M is the Ferrari of Poser figures, at a Cadillac price. Now if someone would just do a female figure with normal female fat ratios.... M

Re Jim Burton's and Netherworks comments - I feel that I should point out that the revised way of making ERC work in P5 & P6 is also backwards compatible with P4/PPP.

layingback- which one- the "figure number less" or the "conformingTarget" one? I've tried the former (I set my Injectors up that way), but can't remember any big advantages to it, I'll have to try it again. Never tried the other, though. Incidently, I aught to mention that Curious Labs got stock Jessi right, she both has IK off by default and is named "Jessi", rather then the dreaded (and meaningless) "Figure 1". Things I've been campaining for for years (and how I set up all my figures). Needless to say, I didn't change THOSE parts. ;-)

"Figure number less" or FII (Figure Indendent Injection) has the advantage that more than 1 injected figure can be injected in the same scene. I.e. it gets around the readscript limitation of injection only working on the first figure loaded in a scene. A big advantage if you use Mill3 figures. Only extra step (besides removing the Figure #'s of course ;-) is having to select the target figure before the injection pose is applied. But that's not a hard habit - nor a bad one - to get into. A set of tools to handle all of this for you is under development - I have them in alpha test form - but unfortunately release has had to wait due to more pressing updates.

Agree with mickmca on Glamorous Jessi. Thanks Jim for a job well done!

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I have been trying to model my own poser human for myself and some work I do. it's not top notch or anything but it hasn't the same face or shape as vicky does and I love to see the new renda without the same shape. and maybe we can call her rhonda or something like that

With Neftis and Seraphira working on new characters, I prefer to wait!

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I would wish for "overlapping" zones. Zones that would squeeze in to simulate at least in part some kind of muscle-behavior. I am so fed up with having to either rotate my figure or using postwork to hide the imperfections. And, most important, a feminine behind, which holds up to a sitting position too. GluteRaise doesn't go good enough for me, and I hate V3's Masculine blockbutt. As for the rest, I'll leave all the ERC and InjChan and JCM's to all you techies here.. ;)

I won't go backwards with a less realistic figure, so it will have to come out with guns blazin and offer a lot more realism for me to bite. If you are going to create a new female figure from the ground up for Poser 5/6 then I would suggest taking some lead from Anton and doing this: A MORE realistic looking figure that is anatomically correct with built in Pubic morphs and trans. Otherwise it's just barbie and not a real life replica. Take a look at Anton's male figure to see an example of how it should be done but in female version. A LOT more vertices and polys in the hip/thigh areas for better sitting, bending, etc. poses which can be a problem with V3. PUSH THE LIMITS OF REALISM! A lot of us have high-end systems with 2GIG+ RAM and a 1/2 or 1 terabyte storage so I'm constantly looking to push the limits. Meshes/body textures that are realistic. Get Mask and some of the other great artists out there to do them so there are some on release of the figure. International head/body morphs more realistic and more options than what we have now for V3/S3. Ability to scale character better, like Anton's male figure. Also an "age" dials for making older/younger. Full support of Poser5/6.

Jeff

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Is Seraphira still working on her character? She hasn't been in the forum for a LONG time and I thought that project was dead. Is she still around and where can she be found if not?

Jeff

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She's still around. Check the Developer's Forum.

NOT named 'Renda'to start with.

Why shouldn't speech be free? Very little of it is worth anything.

I've been thinking about doing a version of GJ with fully working "naught bits". I don't really see a whole lot of use for a female figure like that unless your doing blue movies (or something like that), but I gather some would buy her. As anyone who has taken figure drawing classses knows, on most women all you see down there is the pubic hair triangle (which GJ already has). Could give me something new to sell at BBay, though... ;-)

Geometry swapping might be a good solution for the 'naughty bits' If you don't need them, you can swap out the extra polygons and textures. It's one of the features that works very good on Judy and most Poser males.

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Yes, please have all the "naughty bits" present and accounted for with the option to just turn them off whenever they're not needed. Much easier than futzing around with detachable parts like Mike's/David's. ;-)

My 2p (2p 'cos I'm British, so don't have any cents, or is that sense?) on what the new Renda character should be? Simple answer: Free! Cheers, Diolma

Not named Renda. I am waiting to see what Seraphira comes out with.

ROFLOL @ buddy36s, and i agree with the new name .."The TURD"....lol.. AND if Rosity are listening get SVDL on as project leader, he seams to know what we want....And he wont make another "turd". lol.

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