hi guys!! this is the original pic i took of my sister-in-law, Pam, & her mother, Sandra. Pam said she really likes how i do portraits, and she and Sandra wanted a momma/daughter pic. Sandra said she wanted the pic to be zoomed in on their faces...and they wanted to POSE outdoors for it. I'm not real good at takin' portraits when people pose. when i take pics of people, like Kemal or Jessie, i like them just to do their thing and shoot the whole time. candid pics are so much easier for me, but Sandra didn't want that. so, here's one i really liked because they're both smiling and look relaxed. it was my job to get them to smile. that wasn't so easy. our family is going thru some really hard times right now. tried so hard on vacation to be silly and try to be there for everyone...not easy when i'm hurtin' so bad inside. sorry...anyway, i really wanna to this one right for them...'cause it's important to them. Sandra is like half native American i believe. she and Pam have a lot of red tones in their skin. i just had a hard time with their portraits. any advice would be so appreciated guys! thanks! sorry for rambling.

i know i cut Pam's head off. guys...if you saw the other pics i took, you'd see why i chose this one. it was all i could do to get them to smile...you know...where it didn't look FORCED. wish i hadn't cut her head off. *sigh*. here's a postworked version.

since i wasn't happy with that one, i tried this one. i've spent so many hours with this image. i'm just ready to pull my hairs out. wondering if i should just work with a different image? just give up? i know the original pic isn't good. i just wanted to do my absolute best with it before stopping. thanks for your input!!

I defenitely prefer the original so far!! That u cut the top of her head isn't a distraction to me and I don't think u should worry about that but that's just my humble opinion! The sepia and B&W are too "white" for my taste! Lots of the details on their skin is lost there! So yea, I do prefer the original!

Ok! I had a go at it and decided to make it simple!! Tell me what u think! I really like it in sepia! I think it's a great portrait Sheila even though I don't like posed portraits either! But I think U've captured them beautifully here still!!

And in sepia!

My take on Black and White

Eggiwegs! I would like... to smash them!

I like the B&W version for the same reason Pascale dose not. It's my experience that people don't have a realistic impression of what they look like. The more you soften the image and features the better response you'll get. As for cropping the top of her head I think it's perfect compo. I see pro head shots all the time that are much tighter than this. All offered IMHO:}

A cross between 2,3 and 8 is my best guess. I like the softness of 2, but feel some detail and contrast needs to be worked back in.

Kort Kramer - Kramer Kreations

This is a _really_ quick conversion (under a minute, but wanted to see what happens when you boost the contrast of the original a bit).

Remember ... there are no real rules in photography, just guidelines. Cutting off the head like this is very acceptable in a portrait like this. It's in close and personal ... don't sweat that.

I think the problem with the sepia and b&w one is you're coming from a fairly low contrast image to begin with (was it overcast that day?). Monochrome does not suffer flatness gladly.

Get our contrast up a bit on the original (without clipping the highlights) and it should work better for you. Message edited on: 07/01/2005 13:08

Thanks everybody! I appreciate your input and for taking the time to comment and also play with the portrait. i have tried to keep it simple...to do a simple b/w conversion, but i really don't like it 'cause it looks so flat as Donald said. Pascale, i really don't like the orginal. just my tastes maybe. Pam doesn't like the original either. yes, Pascale, i agree with you...think my versions are too white! Jim...what you said about softening...yes...i've found that to be the case...they like it soft. Pam does. Yes, people see themselves differently. my brother, my dad...they have these say skin tones...lots of red...native American. I have it too but have more olive complexion like my mom. anyway, sometimes you can really see my red tones and i don't like it. Donald, i did try increasing the contrast and i thought maybe it was too much. i thought it brought out too much of the dark roots in Pam's hair (she dyes her hair) and kinda made Sandra's head blend into the background. that's why i didn't increase the contrast. I'd like your thoughts on this. i do like what you've done the best, Donald, because it's not flat. Will you tell me how you did it. i don't have PS. did you convert to b/w, colorize, and then increase the contrast? silly question...how do i get the contrast up without clipping the highlights? should i use curves? again, Thank you all for playing with the pic to show me what could be done and also for your feedback!!!! Glad cutting off her head wasn't a big no-no!!! i thought i really messed it up! You guys are awesome!!! :)

I messed with the colors a bit....very quickly. It has more color, but I'm not sure if it's what you are going for. IMHO I don't think it has to look "perfect". I think they will be happy with it no matter what. You did a great job on it. :)

~Damia~ LeviathanPhotography

hi Damia, Thanks for taking the time to play with my image and try to give it a different look. Pam didn't like the color version that i took. i don't think they would care for this one either since the red tones in their skin is enhanced. i think they would prefer an image where their skin tones are de-emphasized. but i sure do appreciate you taking the time to do this! thanks!!!! yeah, i think you're right that they'll appreciate my efforts. since it's my family, well ya know...i wanna be sure to do an extra special job...to do my absolute best to please them!!! :)

I think it is beautifully composed portrait Shiela - not much point in me converting to another version because you have lots to choose from and it is all a matter of personal preference - but I did anyway :D

And every one said, 'If we only live,
We too will go to sea in a Sieve,---
To the hills of the Chankly Bore!'
Far and few, far and few, Are the lands where the Jumblies live;
Their heads are green, and their hands are blue, And they went to sea in a Sieve.

Edward Lear
http://www.nonsenselit.org/Lear/ns/jumblies.html

Okay, I'm sorry, Shiela. I posted that right when you posted your message I think. I realized that you really wanted bw after I posted my color. So here is a bw I like because it keeps most of the details, but it also softens their faces. I cheated and used a plugin. It's the optikVerve plugin and it's free to download. I don't know if it will work with your program though. Anyway, I just wanted to redeem myself by contributing something that you were actually looking for. I couldn't help it. :) Good luck and try not to pull out too much hair. :)

~Damia~ LeviathanPhotography

Whatever you use to change the contrast, just keep your eye on your histogram and on the image ... you should be able to see when the texture of the skin begins to blow out. If you still need contrast, you can keep going and then you can either use a clone stamp or some noise on an overlay layer to return some texture to the skin. As for the roots, yea ... if I really needed to do that, I would take care of that on a seperate layer, controlling the roots on their own so they don't go dark(er). And yup, I used curves and blending modes - a duplicate of the image blended with softlight and reduced opacity. -=>Donald

I see this is an interesting thread...I have not tried to do any better than those images shown. The note is on the crop: Sheila, to me the crop is fine! Sure, the folks used to a snapshot might see something missing. Folks used to a better touch will like the crop. Go for it lady! God Bless in the hard times..or as a friend of mine at work would do, he would burn some sage for you. Tom.

A soft filter and minor postwork can help this type of shot a two min tweek here

Danny O'Byrne  http://www.digitalartzone.co.uk/

"All the technique in the world doesn't compensate for the inability to notice" Eliott Erwitt

Danny, that looks GREAT! What kind of filter is that? Richard, thanks!!! i sure do like those tones, and i like how the details of their heads/hair are not lost in the background. for my tastes though, it's too flat. would work maybe if i added a glare filter to it? how did you do your postwork? Damia, you're so kind!!! i really do like that! i do use Virtual Photographer and did try some filters on it. which one did you use here, and did you use the standard settings or make your own adjustments? i don't think that's cheating!!!! :) it's still a bit too flat for my tastes, but perhaps a little glare filter on top of it!!! LOL!!!! thanks a bunch! :) Donald, i'll give it a whirl. Kemal's gonna help me try it. i've never used a histogram in postwork before. I know i did copy the image as a separate layer and tried some blending and just could never get it the way i wanted, but i haven't had much experience at doing that. i'll keep trying. Thanks!!! :) Tom, i didn't crop this one so i can't add back the top of her head if i wanted to. i was having a hard time seeing outside...i just asked them to lean their heads into each other's & i didn't realize i cut off part of Pam's head. Prayers and sage would be so much appreciated for my family!! thank you!!! :) ok guys, i will work on this one some more and see what i can do!!!! sure do appreciate all your help!!!!!! :)

PSP - channel mixer = 35 35 33, clarify = 3, colorize = H 13 S 15, Levels = move top left slider in 10. Good luck with it I'm sure you will get the one you want in the end :)

And every one said, 'If we only live,
We too will go to sea in a Sieve,---
To the hills of the Chankly Bore!'
Far and few, far and few, Are the lands where the Jumblies live;
Their heads are green, and their hands are blue, And they went to sea in a Sieve.

Edward Lear
http://www.nonsenselit.org/Lear/ns/jumblies.html

I really like what Donald did. OTOH, your BW version is quite similar.

-- erlik

Richard...Thanks a bunch!!!! Vlatko...hmmm...didn't see that. i could bump up the contrast on it and see what happens. i'll have to see which one Pam likes! thanks guys!!!! :)

I like #2 and #18 posts the best. They are both soft and flattering. I think I'm leaning towards the B & W #2 you did, Sheila.

Hiya Rach!!!!!! nice seein' ya!!!! Thanks so much for your input!!!!!!!!! :) i haven't had time to work on this one anymore but i will. just lettin' it settle. sometimes i have to get away from an image for awhile, but i'll definitely begin working on it soon...maybe next week when my schedule will hopefully not be so crazy!!!!! :)