My heartfelt condolences to the people of Britain for their losses and injuries in this recent savage and cowardly act of mass murder and indiscriminate slaughter of the innocents. This act, like so many others that they have committed only serves to illustrate the malevolence and contempt this low-life segment of the world holds for a decent humanity. It is my hope that this criminal act shall not go unpunished. Quest

I second that! My condolences. Rudy

Rudolf Herczog
Digital Artist
www.rochr.com

Being a Brit, I have the problem that on one hand I am selfish and breath a sigh of relief that neither friends or family have been injured in anyway (especially those that are in the Met police and fire brigade), but I also feel for those less fortunate. I hope that the perpetrators are caught and locked away for the rest of their lives.

----------

Toolset: Blender, GIMP, Indigo Render, LuxRender, TopMod, Knotplot, Ivy Gen, Plant Studio.

I heard about it this morning. Absolute sadness and gried felt for those affected.

Attached Link: Zero tolerance for Politics

It was a great tragedy that has has a lot of ppl outraged. I can sympathize with ones affected in London since I used those same stops on the subway when I was there. But apparently some in the forums can't discuss it since the thread about it got locked in short order at the hint of an argument of political views about the causes of the bombings. Warnings from the mods don't seem to make much difference and it was locked in a heartbeat to prevent too much heated exchange.

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My condolences and thoughts are with the British people too. I agree that political discussiond shouldn't take place here - but when tragedies like this occur, it's so difficult not to point your anger at someone.

Come join the Rendergods!

I am right in line with the rest of you here.... My condolances to all those who have been affected by this tragedy. May God Bless you all through this.

There are 10 kinds of people: Those who know binary, and those who don't. 

A whiner is about as useful as a one-legged man at an arse kicking contest.

My condolences. Rod

___
Ockham's razor- It's that simple

My sympathy, thoughts and prayers to those who lost love ones in London today.

This is not my "second childhood". I'm not finished with the first one yet.

Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

"I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather....not screaming in terror like the passengers on his bus." - Jack Handy

Also all our thoughts are with the UK in this time of great tragedy. Sharen and Mike

My condolences, and hope all our British 3d graphics friends are OK.

My sympathies to all who have lost a loved one or friend.

The wit of a misplaced ex-patriot.
I cheated on my metaphysics exam by looking into the soul of the person next to me.

If I may, I would like to say a big thank you to all of the above on behalf of the British people. Your kind words mean so much to us. We're still reeling from the shock and I haven't heard from my brother or his wife who both live and work in London. My brother works on the Gatwick express - a shuttle service from London Victoria to Gatwick airport - He's not answered my answerphone message. And Jeanette, who works as a nurse in a London hospital. Both my wife and I have many other family members living in London, but there's little chance that they were in the affected areas - thank God. We daren't ring yet because they want to keep lines clear and of course we've been told not to go to London until things quiet down a bit. We were on such a high until we heard the news, because London had just been awarded the Olympic Games for 2012. Now, instead of partying we just want to catch the bad guys. On behalf of us Brits - Thank you!

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And in my final hours - I would cling rather to the tattooed hand of kindness - than the unblemished hand of hate...

Hoping the best for you & your family TheBryster. Hoping all the best for your family members. I post here since the "poser forum" thread was locked. But still wish the best for ALL our 3d graphic friends and their families living in England. Has there been anyone here(RO in general) not accountanted for? Please say no.

I just hate you had to join 'club 911'. At least they'll have enough video footage from the ubiquitous cameras to maybe find them..

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

Reality Check: I've just read the stuff on the Poser Forum and figure it's time to post an update on the facts as we know them... 33 dead 700 injured (That's from critical right down to cuts and bruises). 4 bombs - 3 in the subway and 1 in an London double-decker bus. The death toll could rise anytime soon... ..and I'm staying well away from the politics on this one... oh, and another of my brothers - I have 5 - is in the Metropolitan Police and I haven't heard from him either...

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And in my final hours - I would cling rather to the tattooed hand of kindness - than the unblemished hand of hate...

Indeed a terriable tragedy. Thoughts and prayers gout out to all of england. Rod.

Bryster, we here in the US trying to keep abreast on this are hearing that there are 37 dead and over 700 injured. Please quantify. You have our sincerest warm wishes and sympathies. I was there on 9/11 and feel your dread. Argon, this is a showing of sympathy and support to our brethren and great Island Nation of Great Britain and not to be construed as a political discussion on the legitimacy of terrorist groups, to which there is no legitimacy. That can be discussed somewhere else but this thread is not opened to the political rhetoric as inane as Islamic jihad terrorism is. So if someones post to this thread is intended to politicize their views, and place blame, we already know who detonated the bombs this faithful day, theres nothing to discuss so please, be gone! Quest

Of course, being who I am, I really must put in my two cents. It's a wonderful thing, all of this emotion that everyone is expressing over human pain and suffering. I can't say I feel any of it, but in an attempt to get you all to see a world view on things : 1,000,000+ dead in Iraq since 1992, at the hands of the US and the UN. Go cry somewhere else. And I hope I get this thread closed, all this blubbering is making me nauseous.

Well LSD, you are a fool. No one here is talking Iraq or any such thing, just you. And I have choice words but you dont even deserve them. You are an enablera usera dealer. Youre like a pimp of human emotions and have no qualms or scruples. Whats more, you dont have the slightest idea what it is youre talking about. Just shows how uninformed you are all tho you think you know it all. Ive got news for youyou dont! Go throw up on your own dime, go smoke your weedleave the rest of us to reality. Better yet, I have a rope you can barrow. Quest

Such terrible news, my heart goes out to all who are affected by this tragedy.

Having loved London for many years (and the British in general for more years than I can count), I'm incredibly sorry that this type of destruction has visited that glorious country (and beautiful city) yet again.

Could be worse, could be raining.

My smypathy for all those affected in London. Greatest loss of life since the Blitz from what I understand. @LSD,...you really should stop relying on Al Jezeera as your only source of news.

"Any club that would have me as a member is probably not worth joining" -Groucho Marx

Quest, your hate is much appreciated. And, like always, you give up all control of your emotions with such reactions. Mind control isn't my goal here, that would be too easy. I'm merely bringing into perspective that this was hardly a tragedy. What did you EXPECT to happen when you blew up hundreds of thousands of people in other countries, PEACE? So save the bleeding hearts for another era, there's no place in this world for such hypocrisy. And Quest, I love you and Bryster and the rest of the artists here just fine. Your hatred is misplaced, but keep at it. Hate heals. It's certainly worked towards our "enemies", right?

Condolences, truly its hard to comprehend such an event living in Australia, we are so out of touch down here. But it still hits a chord in the hart to hear and see of such selfless acts of brutality. May all the people involved in this cowardly attack come to quick strict justice. PIECE!

I never intended to make art.

LSD...you have succeeded again! As usual, you have turned a simple outpouring of sympathy into a festering postule! advice to Quest and others>>> ignore the zit, don't poke or prod it...eventually, it will go away!

LSD you say to "Go cry somewhere else. And I hope I get this thread closed, all this blubbering is making me nauseous." I Say: Go throw up somewhere else and let those of us who are human express our care and concern. Go start your own thread devoid of feelings if thats how you feel, don't taint this one with your maliciousness. Don't try to say you love the artists here if you can't show respect for their feelings. Just My Two or three cents! Ang

Sorry dashboard, I get zits quite a lot being a woman and all and I tend to squeeze the pus out of them. Can't seem to leave them alone. My apologies if I'm just aggravating the issue.

LOL...LSD...You're a twit!

lordstormdragon: Tragedy is tragedy, no matter the size. To express condolences for one does not mean another is any less important. Love and sorrow can go in many places at once, and dividing love in half makes two halves that are just as great as the whole. There is no need to quantify as you are doing. And this is not about Iraq, or any of the other countless tragedies in the world that remain undocumented and unknown. My heart goes out to the people of London and of Britain--and to all people who suffer anywhere, of any cause.

Just read about this terrible tragedy. My condolences to the families and prayers to all in England. -Helen

Yeah, you're right... Haloe, you made me feel like a poo. I suppose feeling self-righteous about being numb to violence is quite counter to my true feelings, or perhaps escaping my disgust for violence in general... I apologize for any I may have offended in my rantings. And I hope youre family is okay, Bryster, sincerely.

The deed will return threefold to those who did it, that's a fact. My condolences to those envolved....

Bryce Forum Coordinator....

Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...

I am a Londoner, born and bred. Like Chris I haven't yet heard from all my friends and family who may have been in the area, but have heard from most. At a time like this I am proud to be a Londoner, and am proud of the British spirit that is coming through. I posted this poem in the locked thread in the poser forum, and I post it again here. This guy has really said it all, for all Londoners, whatever nationality, and lets face it London is a truly cosmopolitan city. London Pride You come to place your bags of hate On bus and train, you made us late Yet well be back again tomorrow Well carry on despite our sorrow Your bags of hate caused some to die Yet we stride out strong with heads held high Youll never win, we will not bow You cant defeat us, you dont know how This London which we love with pride Is a town where scum like you cant hide Dont worry we will hunt you down Then Lock you up in name of Crown Were London and were many races Just look youll see our stoic faces We all condemn your heinous act You will not win and thats a fact Well mourn our dead and shed a tear But we will not bow to acts of fear Youre out there somewhere all alone Theres nowhere now you can call home Olympics ours weve won the race Your timing then a real disgrace Our strength youll find remains unbowed Were London and were very proud. Author Chris Neal (A Londoner)

The greatest part of wisdom is learning to develop  the ineffable genius of extracting the "neither here nor there" out of any situation...."

"A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic." 37 dead would a just above average day in Iraq. What is so shocking to this all is that it is comming awfully close to our homes. I will offer my condolences to the families & friends, but that's about it.

Robert van der Veeke Basugasubasubasu Basugasubakuhaku Gasubakuhakuhaku!! "Better is the enemy of good enough." Dr. Mikoyan of the Mikoyan Gurevich Design Bureau.

I couldn't believe it when I heard the news of all them people that had been hurt and killed... I just can't understand why people need to do this to overs... there not right in the head to go out and bomb people they don't even know is worge and I'd love for the people that did this to be find....

---

You imagination is your only limitation.

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Two tragedies, one that touched the inocent people of London and the other tragedy is that we are not allowed to touch the politicians that caused all these and other tragedies all around the world. I've spoken too much, now you can lock this thread too, how someone dare to speak about the choosen ones by Job's God!

Stupidity also evolves!

Well I got some good news this morning (Fri) My brother rang to say thathe and his wife are just fine and that he had been working the night run which is why he hadn't been able to return my call....... Again thanks for those of you who sent their kind thoughts. 50 dead and expected to rise. Not all the bodies have been recovered yet.

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And in my final hours - I would cling rather to the tattooed hand of kindness - than the unblemished hand of hate...

Good news there Chris. I just received a message from my younger brother, so now I know that him and his family are OK, so all my family is now accounted for.

The greatest part of wisdom is learning to develop  the ineffable genius of extracting the "neither here nor there" out of any situation...."

My prayers and condolences go out to the people of Britain, especially the families immediately effected by the attack. @ LSD: I love you man, and I understand your anger at the coalition, but you need to show more compassion towards the innocent. Sure innocent Iraqis have suffered in the war, and it is GOOD to feel compassion for them, and want to do something for them. Laughing and showing contempt for the Londoners injured and dead is doing NOTHING to help the Iraqis. The Londoners injured in the attack are surely as innocent as the Iraqis who are killed and injured in attacks by the coalition. Surely you can feel compassion for all innocent peoples and not just Iraqi innocent people.

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms!!

From an Englander's view, All this bombing, murdering is just a part of the whole religious problem. I'm affraid that over the past 4,000 years or so, it has been used to cause murder and vengance to every country in the world. I'm a firm believer that we are not alone in the universe BUT, I'm not a believer of us being made by one God, being or other religious thing. So all this hatred could stop by excepting no religion and believing in oneself. This will hurt many people around this forum and around the world, but, you must agree that religion is the prime instigator of all wars. @ JSD. You have every right to view your opinion but please dont blame certain countries or union forces for atrocities. Your facts are wrong and if i may adjust your numbers you should have added Iraq killings of own people to 2,000,000 since a certain leader took control some 30 odd years ago. Almost worse than Pol Pot I dont want to start a new forum on this or a religious theme as this is an art forum but please be aware of your feelings for others who are innocent of any religion or violence of any kind. Lets just hope that these murderous leaders are caught and dealt with, and maybe the Olympic games can heal some hearts in years to come. Let art be the voice of all and not bombs and bullets. Marc.

Smile, your dead a long time :)

certain leader , that was hold in place by the cia ,are those files publicly already?, during the iran iraq war sadam was seen as an ally. My sorrow goes too the londoners and the iraqis, in war its allways the commoner that suffers most. did al qaida already confirm they were behind the bombing? It doesnt make sence as the british were going to leave irak soon werent they?

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Difficult topic this: condolences to all innocent people of this damned globalized war.
But who is innocent? Sometimes, when I draw with Bryce, I think I could use my time to help who wants italian troops go home (italian troops? Yes, it sonds ludicrous), or when I drive a pertol-engine car, I think I should work to get an alternative fuel-engine car, and so on.
Then, although I try to go by bike by ever weather condition and try buy sustainable goods (you know: think globally, act locally), I feel not innocent, because sometimes, when I'm tired or simply lazy I don't care. It's a luxury that's not for everybody.
So these were my 2 cents.

/matteo

Zakalwe is wise

Robert van der Veeke Basugasubasubasu Basugasubakuhaku Gasubakuhakuhaku!! "Better is the enemy of good enough." Dr. Mikoyan of the Mikoyan Gurevich Design Bureau.

There is nothing wrong with petrol, there is nothing wrong to have or to drive a car, there is nothing wrong to have money. The problem is how some people get the oil or money!

Stupidity also evolves!

Obviously some people here are thick headed and dense, to put it mildly, or are just down right rude and disrespectful for the hell of it. To use the barbaric and brutal slaughter of innocent people as a political soapbox to try and convince others of their rhetorical gibberish is a pathetic display of desperation. If it werent for the seriousness of the situation it would be almost laughable. Believe me when I tell you that you convince no one. Instead, you merely show your ignorance smothered in callousness and insensitivity. You cant even allow for the expression of compassion without mutilating and misrepresenting the attempt. No one is forced to post to this thread. The objective of this thread was to express condolences and share sympathy for those affected by this criminal tragedy, not for the posting of your political views. There are many web blogs on the Internet that would satisfy your obsessive itch to rant political rhetorical nonsense to your hearts content with both pros and cons.

Quest, I had no such intent. But deleted the post so as not to offend anyone else. I tend to get long winded and have some trouble putting thoughts to script and as a result I tend to come across in a manner I did not intend. Though I had not thought I was on a soap box or getting at all political I can see how it could have been takin as such. To anyone I offended I am extremly sorry.

Well, as a pimp of emotions and a whore of every sort, I have to disagree, Quest. Nobody cares about YOUR bleeding heart, your recycled emotions that you don't really feel at all but overstate in an attempt to win the hearts of other bloody hearts to gain attention. You don't express any real compassion, because if you understood empathy and compassion then truly you would be able to translate it into other mediums and along other paths as well. And the reason I stated "nobody cares" (even though I'm certain someone cares) is to point out how completely inane your "you convince no one" arguments are. You obviously let yourself be convinced that you should feel something. Shield your emotions, they are easily controlled and accessed by anyone : the media, me, Red, and prettymuch any random force of propoganda. To sit and insult myself and Redfeather, after pretending you care about people who've died that you NEVER KNEW, is just plain hypocrisy. Me? Callous? Insensitive? Of course I am. I take no insult in that, at least I'm not hiding behind some shield of decency just to fit in with the rest of the hypocritical, teeming masses. Hell, more people die every day in my city than have in this incident. I certainly am NOT promoting useless death, innocent bystanders being used as tools for those damn terrorists OR for the huge transnats that fund them (including the country I live in, whose single largest export is WEAPONS). I don't want anyone to die violently and in massive pain and gore. And were they close enough for me to help, I would be out doing so. But for you to say that WE turned this into a political thread? That's poppycock. The entire thread is political, fronted under the guise of compassion. If this thread were truly about compassion and understanding, then it would be universal, and also pertain to those of us with differing opinions. IF you were truly a compassionate individual, why can't you find any compassion for people you DO know and have known for years? But, Quest, like I previously stated : hate heals. Keep up the good work. But one thing you really need to work on is your insults. They aren't even up to chatroom levels yet. I suggest Seattle : 2 on Yahoo, the center of text-based pain in this Universe. Practice makes perfect.

Me? Callous? Insensitive? Of course I am. I take no insult in that, at least I'm not hiding behind some shield of decency just to fit in with the rest of the hypocritical, teeming masses.<< --------------------- LSD...I'm really sorry you feel this way and are proud of it. sigh

I tend to disagree with you LSD, just because you have no feelings for total strangers doesn't mean that others do not. I do feel empathy, for those I know and those I don't. I do feel empathy for humans and non-humans. Just because you don't doesn't mean that others do not. I am willing to believe you when you admit to not having feelings, although I can't fathom it, So guess what, that means that people can be different from you and I am so thankful for that. For whatever reason, there exist people like you. sigh

Redfeather, my last post was not directed at you specifically, I was referring to you in my statement in the plural sense. I didnt find your post offensive but there are others here who demonstrate little or no consideration in their posting. They automatically take the opportunity to inject their political agenda and propaganda, which no one really cares about, as if they have something to prove. It is unfortunate that this type of moronic behavior seems to be becoming more pervasive here in this forum. These characters always think they know better than the rest of us and when someone differs with their opinion, they curl their lips like wild hyenas and come at you with bullsh*t jingoistic rhetoric. Its ashame that such an element into this forum is driving others away. This behavior is a complete turn-off and from the IMs that Ive been receiving some of our older, longtime established artist members of this forum are becoming less inclined to post here as a result and some are even considering looking to move on to other sites.

LSD, you couldnt find your own ass with a map much less know anything about anything. As is obvious from your postings you are one pathetic, miserable individual without a shred of decency. Only thing you care about is you. Things will only matter to you when you or someone close to you are directly affected by it. Otherwise, its someone elses problem and theyre the bleeding hearts because they are the ones caught in the tragedy. But you always contradict yourself: Me? Callous? Insensitive? Of course I am prior:I suppose feeling self-righteous about being numb to violence is quite counter to my true feelings, funny how you manage to do that all the time. You try to diminish the tragedies of others by quantifying numbers. If the tragedies affected you, the numbers would then mean nothing.

Me? Shield my emotions from what, the likes of pariahs like you? You ARE silly! At least I embrace my emotions and dont hide from them like you do. You just couldnt keep your nonsensical blabber to yourself, so it is obvious that you felt compelled and needed to purge yourself yet once again, so whos controlling whom? Youre a joke!

Having been caught in the 9/11 atrocity myself, having witnessed first hand that slaughter of innocents, having lost a family member there, having lost 26 coworkers there, believe me when I tell you that I know what compassion is. I dont need the likes of you or people like you to try and convince me that I cant sympathize with others who have shared similar tragedies at the hands of barbarism.

Message edited on: 07/10/2005 19:42

Aye, well Ang I fear I have misrepresented myself then. I DO have emotions, and they cover a wide spectrum, all the way from anger to pure rage. I am, and have admitted this before, "damaged goods". War, death, and terror have been a commonplace occurance in my life, in many of the places I've called home. I was born in Korea, of all places... But that doesn't mean I don't empathize. I really don't wish MORE pain on anyone, and I had high hopes that other countries including Britain wouldn't be dragged into the mess that this nation I live by currently (USA) has perpetuated, in my opinion of course... But no more politics? I hope the survivors heal quickly, and Peace will settle in again in Britain, and everwhere. Just because I am a force for Evil on this planet doesn't mean I'm necessarily malevolent. Evil backwards is Live. And what could be more ultimately evil than humanity surviving and flourishing?

"These characters always think they know better than the rest of us and when someone differs with their opinion, they curl their lips like wild hyenas and come at you with bullsh*t jingoistic rhetoric" Aye, Quest. A bit too much mirroring going on here. Take a good look at your hatred, your scorn, and the energy you put into insulting me. How, then, are you any different from the "terrorists" then? Well, they act. You just type a lot.

You really dont have the slightest idea of what youre talking about. You just dont have a clue! Youre just here to perpetuate foolishnessand still you continue with politics. Is this too much for you? Has it gone over your headyet again? Lets keep it to a simple theorem that even you could understand: if you have nothing to good to say, then dont say anything at all!

Message edited on: 07/10/2005 20:27

sigh...

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All the Woes of a World by Jonathan Icknield aka The Bryster

And in my final hours - I would cling rather to the tattooed hand of kindness - than the unblemished hand of hate...

FWIW, I'm truly sorry for every single person who was lost, and absolutely relieved that your families are all accounted for. Terrorist attacks on civilian targets are sick and twisted. And I pity anyone who can't empathize with the victims. btw, I'm not a Christian or a member of any other organized religion, and I voted for Kerry. ;-)

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

Hey quest when do start to look in the mirror. And look at the person staring back at you, how he acts, what he says and write in regard to other people on this forum and in general. BTW: today its 10 years ago, Sebrenica. There are still people in this world walking around who knew and made a deal.

Robert van der Veeke Basugasubasubasu Basugasubakuhaku Gasubakuhakuhaku!! "Better is the enemy of good enough." Dr. Mikoyan of the Mikoyan Gurevich Design Bureau.

Ye gods! You people! If you wish to make personal attacks against each other this is not the place, by any means. If you can't be civil, take it outside.

All is politics, you cannot escape from politics, your life is commanded by politics, without politicians there would not be terrorists neither people killed here and there.

Stupidity also evolves!

Aye, "politics" stems from the root "polite". Which is an amazing concept, considering there's nothing polite about politics at all. No more beef between me and you, Quest? You got it. I think you're an amazing artist, regardless of our "political" differences. I don't mind having my intelligence insulted on occasion, it's the only thing on Earth that helps to keep my ridiculous ego under any sort of control. But in the spirit of perspective, I'll refrain from being even MORE obnoxious and unorthodox, and just give everyone interested something to ponder for a bit : "I know the evil of my ancestors because I am those people. The balance is delicate in the extreme. I know that few of you who read my words have ever thought about your ancestors this way. It has not occurred to you that your ancestors were survivors and that survival itself sometimes involved savage decisions, a kind of wanton brutality which civilized humankind works very hard to suppress. What price will you pay for that suppression? Will you accept you own extinction?" --The Stolen Journals (Frank Herbert, "God-Emperor of Dune")

"politics" stems from the root "polite". LSD: State your sources.....

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All the Woes of a World by Jonathan Icknield aka The Bryster

And in my final hours - I would cling rather to the tattooed hand of kindness - than the unblemished hand of hate...

My condolences and prayers to the people of London. May justice be swift. Politics is from the Greek root Politikos, meaning: of citizen or of state. Polite is from the Latin root Politus, meaning: refined or elegant. The etymology of both words are different. My Story: Having been a soldier in the Canadian Armed forces, I was stationed in the West Bank and the Golan Heights in 1979 with the UN 2nd Emergency force. I was 17 at the time. My job essentially was to convoy garbage from the town of Nabulos in the West Bank to the port of Elaf on the Gulf of Aqaba. At that time, UN soldiers carried rifles (mine was a FN C1 7.62 mm of Belgian manufacture) we were not permitted to have ammunition. But we still carried our weapons as if we did. Howerver, both the Palestinians and Isrealis new the UN peacekeepers were essentially unarmed. Palestinian children used to follow our truck and jump in the back to rummage thru the garbage for anything of value. The streets were very narrow and we had to travel slowly, so it was easy for the kids to jump onto our vehicle. At first I used to kick them off, but they were so persistent that after a few days of this, you tend to give a blind eye to it. To make a long story short, one day someone threw a grenade into the back of our truck (at least I think it was a grenade). The blast from a grenade is nothing like you see in the movies. Its very quick, with very little smoke and no fire, and a whole lot of shrapnel. I was slumping in my seat, so I wasn't hit by any shrapnel. My driver, lost his right ear. I couldn't hear anything, due to the blast, so the screaming of the kids that were in the back went unnoticed to me for a while. But when I finally gathered myself, I was sickened to see the shrapnel-torn bodies of the young Palestinian children. Two were dead, one would die on the way to the hospital but two others survived. The Palestinians blamed us, for they thought we were secretly transporting live explosives hidden in the garbage. We were quickly surrounded by an angry mob. Since we were essentially unarmed, we were at the mercy of the crowd. Luckily, an Isreali patrol happened by and proceeded to extricate us from our peril by shooting two aggressive young Palestinian men. I was further sickened by that. I thought it was unnecessary. At any rate the crowd dispersed. I stayed on for a few more days, but fell into a deep depression. Our base chaplain, a dutch colonel, saw my condition and had me transferred to a calmer peacekeeping mission in Cyprus whereby I pretty much stayed in a state of constant inebriation. My apologies to any Cypriots here, but I did not get to know your island at all. I've seen death and destruction up close. And I express genuine sympathy to the families of those Londoners who will never see their loved ones alive again. I feel the same towards all those who have lost their lives in Iraq, the Balkans and any number of African nations who are in a perpetual state of civil war. @LSD; I do not comprehend your callousness towards those who express sympathies towards the recent tragedy in London. My only thought is that you must be very young and idealistic. But your idealism is pointed in the wrong direction. And quoting a passage from a pulp fiction writer like Frank Herbert only reveals your immaturity. You may as well have quoted Luke Skywalker or Captain James T. Kirk. One day, when you mature, you'll look back on your youthful folly with a smile but also with a little embarassment. If you are not young, then I feel sorry for you my friend. May you be spared such tragedy in your life.

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@ quest, Thanks for the clearification. Perhaps next time I should read through all the posts before I post to keep clear where Im jumping in (this is a bad habit of mine) I can simpathize with many of the older artists and there view. Ive been a member here for about 2 yrs now. Have seen more than enough of these ppl come here stir up this kind of unrest among those here that wish to help the newer artist learn and develope. And under normal cercumstances I would leave this be. I tend to walk the shadows of these forms but LSD your retoric has even brought me out to the light of day. LSD you need to mature ALOT to make the statemnets you've made because your timeing and choice of words needs ALOT of refinement. You made a qoute I think hoping to sound wise. But your underestimating the inteligence and maturity of the ppl you address. I HAVE thought long and hard of my ancestors. Our tribes did many things that seemed barbaric to use your terms, the Lacota would cut 100 squares of flesh from there own arms or legs to morn the loss of a loved one for example. But Thats how things were done then. (side note: we NEVER had holy wars or a war over simple opinion. We would fight for servival of the trib for food or shelter). I have to agree with Bandolin, and not to sound redundant, I think you have not pondered at proper deepth (sp? sorry dislexias kickin in) that wich you are trying to qoute. IF so you would not have choosin to pick this form at this time to voice these thoughts. all good intentions aside.

My heartfelt condolences to the people of [fill in name of country or city of choice ....] *for their losses and injuries in this recent savage and cowardly act of mass murder and indiscriminate slaughter of the innocents. This act, like so many others that they have committed only serves to illustrate the malevolence and contempt this low-life segment of the world holds for a decent humanity. It is my hope that this criminal act shall not go unpunished.*Better....

Because there is a list of countries and places that people don't want to know about...

Robert van der Veeke Basugasubasubasu Basugasubakuhaku Gasubakuhakuhaku!! "Better is the enemy of good enough." Dr. Mikoyan of the Mikoyan Gurevich Design Bureau.

Will someone please lock this thread !?

"Any club that would have me as a member is probably not worth joining" -Groucho Marx

Hmmmm I dont seem to be able to edit to add this so I post again as it was intended to go with the origonal post. For the loved ones lost and there familys: Donadagohvi, AiSv Nvwadohiyado, Ahwen'sa Unaliyi. (Till next we meet, Walk in peace, For we are all related)

Redfeather, Im glad that I was able to clarified for you. I have a deep respect for the Native American.

Bandolin, thank you for sharing this episode of your life with us, I was moved by it, the sight of death never comes easy, especially wanton murder. Youre etymology of the word politics is spot on, thanks for that as well. On a lighter side heres another etymology for the word that I found:

The word 'politics' comes from the Greek 'poly' meaning 'many', and 'tics' of course are bloodsucking parasites.

-- 1992 Libertarian presidential candidate Andre Marrou

Kawecki, theres a time and place for everything including politics.

Robertj, let us know when you grow up and find a brain of your own.

Why thank you.

But Politics is derived from the Greek word for Citystate, "Polis", politics date back from transformation of human society that took place around 6000 BCE as an urban revolution, its around that time that cities, institutionalization of social stratification, non-agricultural specialised crafts (including priests and lawyers), taxation, and writing came to be. All wich require a densely populated area like a city.

Robert van der Veeke Basugasubasubasu Basugasubakuhaku Gasubakuhakuhaku!! "Better is the enemy of good enough." Dr. Mikoyan of the Mikoyan Gurevich Design Bureau.

No matter the origin of the word "politics", if the original intention was good or not. Today are the politicians that decide to bomb an adobe hut or to bomb a sub, and when is the time or place for politics is their decission too, you only are allowed to dance their music, if still alive.

Stupidity also evolves!

Since nobody closed this thread yet: My (funny, ludicrous) theory is that Intelligence and Wisdom are a cosmic Constanct. There is a fix amount since the origin of the universe, and it's shared between all people. Now, since human genre has increased dramatically during last century, this means that average Intelligence and Wisdom tend to zero. This can explain a lot of passive and lemminglike behaviour of many people. Every act is a political act in a complex society. What you choose to wear, what you eat... architecture is a political act (remember 9/11). To choose to make condolences for the victims of last tragedy in the UK is a political act, even if you don't notice this. And it's right to feel empathy for all those people, innocent or not. But, some far play please! I like that LSD remebered the Iraqi victims, even if I don't agree how he did this. I know, what happened in UK was close to many of us. For this reason we feel empathy: we could have been there. But what happens on the other side of the world in forgotten countries is not less important and dramatic. We sould remember all the victims of all countries plagued by war. The victims of indifference. The victims of stupidity. Or, all the victims of pollution or traffic: it's incredible! every day thousands of people near us die by pollution, traffic, stress and we don't notice it. If mr.President could make a war against pollution... no victims, only saved people. He could be a dazzling example for all the world and rule the world without the use of military power. Democracy is another word that stems from greek: govern of people. Who votes, decides. Politicians make what they want? People want peace, but politicians not? Wait, who voted them? We - this means that [1] my above theory is true, we've become a mass of brainless individuals and can't choose leaders who think the same as we. [2] we can understand who we vote and, in this case, we are a mass of hypocrite individuals [3] the so called democracy has some gaps. Sure it's better than a brutal tyranny. We need to care our democracy - every public act, like writing in a 3d forum is a political act too.

Well, like has been said, since this thread is still open,..............to say that every act of human decency is a political act is just plain nonsense,.......retorhical justification. Conflict is a fact of human nature,.......maybe even human evolution. Oh that it were not so,.......but things are the way they are or else they'd be different. As far as democracy,........I like what Winston Churchill said,...."Democracy is the worst form of goverment,.......except for all the rest". And as a matter of fact the U.S. is not a democracy,........it's a constitutional repulic.

"Any club that would have me as a member is probably not worth joining" -Groucho Marx

A choice not made is still a choice. A warriors heart will not let him live on his knees but die on his feet. Faceing the enemy with honor. This is a choice though it can diguise itself very cleverly as not choosing. But in the act of not choosing, you choose anyway, to live on your knees and die with out honor bringing shame to your house(family,trib,country). I am not sure I put this so it applies easily to the conversation. However in an effort to clearify look at it like this since the conversation has turned to politics: To vote someone into office or follow someone with without thought(liveing on your knees) before doing your "homework"(liveing on your feet) you risk empowering someone who doesnt act honorably, bringing shame to his house (family,trib,country). To follow without questions this leader is to bring that same shame to your house.

Latest....looks like the bombers were of the suicide variety - and Brits at that. And they've made a 'significant' arrest.

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader

All the Woes of a World by Jonathan Icknield aka The Bryster

And in my final hours - I would cling rather to the tattooed hand of kindness - than the unblemished hand of hate...

Well, it seems the inmates have overrun the asylum, and more idiocy spills. I guess some people just like to hear themselves rant. Not for any particular reason but just to make noise, irregardless whether or not there is any sense or truth in the rant. Like bobbleheads set in motion on rough terrain they follow each other like lemmings giving lip service to each other and padding themselves on the back reinforcing their collective stupidities. With no real construct they disseminate their flawed, unsubstantiated disinformation simply because its their new found fad, because its popular at the moment and everyone is doing itlike a new style, a haircut or the new tattoo in town. Instead of finding the intended subject matter what you find is words taken out of context, innuendos, hearsay and conspiracy theories meandering on ad infinitum with nothing substantial. People led astray by the wool that has been carefully knitted and placed over their eyes. The truth contorted and skewed out of proportion set to the rhythm of pitched utopian idealism and rosy pink sunglasses. If I had wanted this to be a discussion on politics, what I would have said would really have toasted some asses. And it all would have been substantiated with plenty of dated and reliable references and sources, something which is strangely lacking in this gathering and many others throughout the Internet. Bryster, Ive been following the developments and am pleased by the swiftness with which this investigation is proceeding. I hear they have one arrest already. Maybe well find out who put this idiot up to this travesty and follow through with justice.

Osiyo Quest, dohiyi (peace) brother. I have to agree with you. this is not the place to discuse politics. may I sugjest to those who wish to continue this discusion along those lines to start a new thread? This had started out to be an outpouring of true empathy, and turned to something of a quite distorted distant shadow of the origonal topic. I am just as guilty as the last for perpetuating said topic but I have seriously been feeling this is no longer the what it was intended to be. the way it was reported on the news here was 1 important arrest, 2 of the individuals died in the bombing one was unacounted for. This being the most encoraging information as some stations have the details muddled, saying there were 3 dead and 1 arrest(as far as my local news has it). Is that what there saying there?

Message edited on: 07/13/2005 00:41

4 guys met at Kings Cross. It is supposed that they died with their bombs. One arrest has been made. Several 'controlled' explosions in/around Luton. One bomber came from Leeds - was only discovered when his family reported him missing.

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader

All the Woes of a World by Jonathan Icknield aka The Bryster

And in my final hours - I would cling rather to the tattooed hand of kindness - than the unblemished hand of hate...