The following are my impressions that I would like to have checked by those with more experience with the figures detailed. If you have worked with the figure in question, please provide your input and correct any erroneous information. I do this in an effort to clarify my perceptions before making a purchase and to help others in their same search for information.

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Michael 3.0

The base is currently free at Daz3D.com and the following items to make it a "complete package" should be bought as well:
Michael 3.0 Head & Body Morphs $20.97
Michael 3.0 Ultra BodySuit $20.97
Michael 3.0 Universal Texture Maps (High Res) $17.47

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(While the current sale lasts)$59.41

Michael 3 has a truly astounding array of clothes, morph packs, hair, etc for him. He has decent poseability with all but the more extreme poses looking unnatural.

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David

The Complete David Bundle is currently also on sale at Daz3D for $69.97. Included in the budle is:
David Base
David Head Morphs
David Body Morphs
David Universal Texture Maps (Standard Res)
David Clothing Pack 1
Wedge Cut 2.0

This is the same mesh as Michael 3, I believe, only more slieght of build and I have heard one person say they prefer David as he has slightly better poseability.

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Apollo Maximus by Anton Kisiel

The most expensive at $99.95 and the one with the fewest available clothes sets and what HOWEVER the forethough and craftsmanship of this model is truly impressive. The long list of morphs, the texture map, the care and consideration of the end-user is considerable. Also the ADS(Alternate Dial Save) system looks very intriguing. The scaling of the figure to different proportions looks fantasitc, something I look for in a figure.

Their is a lot of older poser users supposedly touting how incredible the figure is and would love to hear from them.

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James

Free with Poser 6. The arms are a big problem I hear. Although many like the figure, I have heard a few people state they never use him.

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Well, these are the impressions I have of the male figures available. If you have had experience with these figure, please answer the following questions about each one:

-Are my assumptions and observations accurate?
-Have I left anything out?
-Are there any features or drawbacks that should be noted?
-Would you like to add anything?
-Are any of these figures ESPECIALLY good or bad for anything in particular?

Thank you for your insight!

-Are my assumptions and observations accurate? Mostly. David is based on the Daz3D Unimesh - V3/M3/David/Luke/Laura/S3/etc. So, David isn't exactly based on M3, but all of these are based on the Unimesh (which started with V3). David has better joint parameters, so that would account for better posability. -Have I left anything out? Hell yes! ;) Luke, Hiro3, Don, Millenium Boys, Freak (though directly based on M3). Luke is much like a younger version of David. Hiro3, of course, is geared towards Anime/Manga. There are also a set of Japanese figures to be released into the wild eventually (there is a thread in the forum about them). No word yet on their construction quality.

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

And never let us forget our ever beloved Dork! ;) And for M3, you left out the price for Clothing Pack 1 as well which up's his cost. I don't consider a figure complete without his or her Basic Clothing options.

Anton's ApolloMaximus is one of the best figures out there. Clothing items are trickling in rather slowly as he is a 3rd party figure. But his rigging is certainly superior to the unimesh line. The other male figures that have not been mentioned are Adam 2, Behemoth, HIM, and the Project Human Male, all available for free at poserforums.com.

I agree about AM. And it is somewhat disingenuous to decry the lack of clothing items for AM on several grounds: 1. This is a very recent figure release. 2. It is a male figure. Just compare V3 clothing resources (in the hundreds of thousands!!!) to David (in the tens). I'll say it again, V3 has enough shoes to make Imelda Marcos green with envy. Thank the Almighty Poser God for WardrobeWizard (and PhilC and Kamilche!)! 3. It is a male figure not based on any others. 4. It is a male figure. ;)

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

I would suggest getting M2 & whatever you need for him while it's on sale. Imo opinion he still beats M3, much more easy to use and still looking good. M2 isn't perfect and has faults, but M3 isn't any better and those horrible inj aren't my best friends at all.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

The only thing I don`t like about apollo maximus is the price, not everyone with poser will be able to afford $99.95 just for a figure.

I am decrying nothing, kuroyume0161, merely making an observation. Apollo Maximus's higher price and the lack of clothing are due mostly to his relative newness but so many older users love the figure, that his lack of clothes will soon be remedied. Also they say he is well worth every penny.

Currently I am leaning towards purchasing Apollo Maximus and David just to have David for an alternate male figure. I am thinking of leaving M3 alone but buying his clothes and using Wardrobe Wizard (when I purchase this too) to modify clothing as needed. Sound like a good plan or are there flaws in it?

Message edited on: 07/31/2005 14:49

I know, but noone should complain about lack of male figure clothes - at least not to the choir. Complain to the merchants and then support them for listening! :) Remember, AM coulda been had for less than $99.95 for quite some time. Take the opportunities when they arise. AM may go on sale in the future (one never knows), so keep that in mind before purchasing.

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Rkane 1 to use michael 3`s clothes with the wardrobe wizard you will need michael 3 installed, but the free michael 3 from daz will do for most things.

A subscription to PoserWorld help with male clothes, too. There are lots of different "outfits" from dressy to casual to historical for Dork, the Mikes and others that convert well using clothing converter. If you can't afford a lifetime subscription (I think all subs are on sale), and you have a fast Internet connection, get a one-month subscription and download everything you can. The site has been around for YEARS and there are lots of great items for all the characters plus backgrounds, cars, furniture, etc.

not really fair comparison on sale prices so: Mike 3 base free Mike 3 morphs $29.95 Mike 3 Ultra body suit $29.95 Mike 3 standard res texture $19.95 ------ total not on sale $79.85 Mike 2 CD $69.00 David Bundle not on sale $99.95 ApolloMax $99.00 (includes body suit, beard, scalp, morphs, texture) Now lets compare. Mike 3 has 249 "items" in the Daz store. The figure has been out for close to 2 years. Mike 2 has 158 "items" in the Daz store. Figure has been out for 4 years? David has 68 "items" in the Daz store. Figure has been out for 1 1/2 years. ApolloMax has 27 "items" in the RuntimeDNA store. Figure has been out for 1 1/2 months. 5 of the "items" are clothing items. Daz's Mike 2 is the beefy body builder type. Mike 3 continued but brought a more normalized "normal" guy to the figures. Daz's David is probably the best built figure and the most normal guy looking, but the least supported at least at Daz. ApolloMax built for the most natural posing. Most normal guy looking. Added bonus that the figure scales down to dwarf, preteen without having to purchase another figure. If your going to compare pricing and support one should take into consideration the time the model has been out, and the FULL price of the figures not on sale for comparisons. Daz's David, and ApolloMax are the most "similar" in included items and pricing. However in posing ApolloMax poses much better in the hips and elbow bends just as an example.

Someone forgot to mention Vittorio from PDXJims. David has the most flexibility in his face for doing morphing, Apollo has some plus points in that he has alot of morphing dials that the Millenium Figures are missing. The mapping on Apollo is still not 100% perfect but that was done intentionally done according to Anton Kisiel to allow the figure to be less memory intensive. Michael 3.0 has taffy-pulled shoulders which Curious Labs' James also inherited. David 3.0 lost the taffy pull shoulders but then lost all the morphing dials below the knee. When Luke came out, due to the restrictions of the US Marketplace, lost even more morphability (ie: you cannot make Luke look older than 16 if you are lucky)... He has serious problems when adding muscularity to him, his knees don't have the ability to match up to his calves and thighs. Hiro came out as an Anime character, and he is missing all the lower morphs like Luke. Michael and David are the most popular, however, David is the better figure. If you look at Jepe's morphs (Movie Men 1-5) you can see how flexible David is. Apollo Max is new, and has alot of features that are missing in the Millenium Figures, and that would probably give DAZ the needed kick to move forward and update the Millenium Figures. As the webmaster of MalePoserotica, a website geared towards all the Male figures for Poser, I have been pushing ApolloMax and trying hard to find people to make clothing for the male figures, but it seems that V3 is the only popular figure for clothing. So the reason ApolloMax, David , Hiro etc... have little to wear, is cause most makers of 3D clothing don't want to make stuff for Male Figures... as they are not as profitable. Sadly.

Greetings from Germany
ProFotograf

My PoserAddicts

I think your price comparisons are a little inaccurate. With David, you really only need the figure and the moprhs, and with all the sales DAZ has, you can get them together for less than $30 2-4 times a year. The Millenium catsuits are useless, it's great that AM comes with his, but you don't need them for David, V3, or M3. So throwing them into the price comparison isn't really accurate. I don't own AM, but I can't stand the way AM's shoulders look in renders I've seen. They have the opposite problem that M3's shoulders have in that they look unnaturally wide and bulbous. I think that's a far bigger detractor than having no morphs below the knee. In my renders David's wearing boots most of the time or I can make corrections with magnets/postwork to fix his calves/shins. AM ends up looking like a gorilla when you don't put a shirt on him. So I think, for the money, David is your absolute best solution. I've been able to make a lot of what I have for M3 fit David anyway, even without Wardrobe Wizard.

The Catsuits aren't useless... You just have to know how to use them. How can anyone judge ApolloMaximus when they don't own him???? Remember, the renders of any figure are only as good as the poser users who make them. And I have noticed that many of them are just hobbyists and don't really pay much attention to the details of the figures, or are not skilled in anatomy enough to get the details right. Many just use the figure out of the box, throw them into a scene and maybe click on a mat/mor button to make the figure look like something. Using a Millenium Bodysuit/Catsuit takes a bit of know-how. I have been using the Catsuits for doing body hair on Millenium figures and haven't found them to be useless. I can only state again that I find David 3.0 is the best figure for the money, and the most flexible when it comes to face morphing, and most of M3's clothing needs only to be reduced about 95% in scale to fit David. Regarding morphs below the knee --- Try doing a scene with olympic swimmers doing diving, and not be able to stand him on a springboard, where his feet don't grip the board. Or a gymnast who has no moveable feet. if the fingers can move, curl or flex, then so should the feet. Feet are nothing more than hands on the ends of legs. A figure that should be anatomically correct shouldn't be missing anything.

Greetings from Germany
ProFotograf

My PoserAddicts

ApolloMax not mapped 100%?! HUH?! The only issue that has been mentioned is that some find it hard to match seams for hair around the penis and goin area for ApolloMax. Daz figures have a addon so the same similar issues have to be accounted for. Clothed niether Daz nor other figures deal with that. MarkDC has Clothing Converter and PhilC has Wardrobe Wizard for converting clothing items. Both have limitations. There are a lot of differences in each and every male figure that is out there. It really depends on what your purpose in a male figure is for in your art work.

IMO, stay away from M3, I'd take David over him anyday, I would take M2 over M3. ApMax is nice also but too new have much support. M3 is a pain with the injecting, and from the abdomen to the head is a mess of a mesh. The arms, neck, and sholders never look right cloth or uncloth. I do not understand why Merchants support M3 and not David. I'm not a Daz basher but M3 is the worst model I have ever bought from them. To sum it it up I would get the House Mouse before I got M3.

The impression I am getting is to stay away from Micheal 2 but Micheal 2 is great for super-hero stuff, David Better for normal human stuff. Apollo is best for stuff with no muscle definition and has a lot of promise. Is that about the jyst of your recommendations?

Just getting started, you have the advantage to pick the male mesh best suited for your needs. The no brainers for the free ones: Dork (P4), Don (P5), James (P6), M3 (DAZ), M2 Lo Res (DAZ), Adam/Behemoth/PHM (Sixus1), and Z-Male (Zygote) If you get Wardrobe Wizard, it won't matter if you get M3, David, Hiro, Luke, Matt, PHM, Don, Dork, James, Apollo, -- their clothes can be converted. My personal favorite is M3 with Daz and Brom morphs. Most realistic, best selection, huge amount of freebies. Other good choices are Hiro, David, M2, and Apollo. To see my policeline up of most major male figures, go here: http://home.earthlink.net/~bastblack/images/Policelineup.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~bastblack/images/policelineupLT.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~bastblack/images/policelineupRT.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~bastblack/images/policelineupBK.jpg bB

I greatly prefer David to M3, and use him every opportunity I get (and since I do book covers for erotic romance, I get lots of opportunities, heh). I will use M3, but I don't like his muscle morphs. Yuck. I always spend a lot of time postworking his body when I have to use his standard morphs (Khrys has a very nice muscle morph pack for M3, though, I highly recommend it). I have Apollo Maximus, but haven't had much opportunity to play with him yet. I'm having trouble getting him to look like anyone but himself in a morph suit (if that makes sense), but I'm sure it's possible, I just don't yet know how to get the most out of the figure. I still occasionally use M2, but not often. I mostly use him when the face isn't important, because it's very difficult (for most of us, anyway) to get M2's face to look sufficiently different. I don't have a problem with his face, but I don't want all my male figures to have a lantern jaw and super-strong browbone, etc. I never use the P4 man, although I did once do a pretty attractive male nude using him (it was a good texture and there was a lot of postwork, though). There IS a reason he's known as "the dork". ;-) These are only my opinions and experiences. Your mileage may vary. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

I wish that James was supported more by the Poser community. I understand that James is supported by Wardobe Wizard, which does dramatically boost his usability. Still, it would be nice to see more products all round for James - texture sets and morphs especially.

When you look at the prices, I was one of the early buyers of AM and I payed less than $50 thats for me about 42 as I had not to pay VAT, fair price for the bonuses you got. May be AM will be offered with a similar similar price in the future or with an event discount. To the DAZ figures you have to add the price for a "Male Tool-Kit" to upgrade the poor joysticks and so the price increases again by cca. $ 25.

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Ulli

"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!"

Interesting note about "Male Tool-Kit". You know, as we move further into the future, it appears that the realism is attempting to reach proper levels. Look at the first, second, and third generation default Poser figures. Very low poly with few details, hardly human at all. With figures like V3/M3/AM we are starting to see more realistic anatomical features. But then there are still the problems with making proper genitalia. The human form is amazingly complex (in totality). Mainly, we are only dealing with the epidermis (skin and hair) - with other features externally visible such as eyes, teeth, tongues. Even this limited complexity is complex as truly its forms are determined by subcutaneous structures - bones, veins and arteries, lymphatic nodes, muscles, tendons, cartilage, fat stores, and all of the fun stuff surrounding the internal organs. Some of it can be faked with current technologies: - Bump/displacement maps for veins/arteries and skin texturing. - Bulges and morphs for muscle contractions and elongations. But why are we so afraid to represent the genitalia and anus anatomically correct? These are complex surface structures/organs, but they really do exist, really! :) It'd be cool and ground-breaking if a dedicated group of people could design this next generation figure with such anatomical precision. But would the software and hardware be up to the challenge? I think the 64-bit migration and multi-core processors may play a major part in this development. Food for thought...

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Fully agree! At the moment there are only some workarounds available for male and for female (Arduino has very good and detailed genitaila for V2 and V3, the ones for Jessi are, IMO, not that good as the ones for V2 and V3, the ones for Aiko I cannot judge as I don have them. The only standard-figure that came with a little bit real looking genitalia was P5 Judy, I don't know why they didn't do similar genitalia to Jessi.

---

Ulli

"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!"

On the flipside.... At first I didn't like Unimesh males being neutered because it made them "less manly" to me, but now I perfer it because the default figure is easier to work with and clothe, plus I don't have to use censor bars or blurs when leave them fully nude. (For example, look at the police lineup). Add-ons have the sole purpose of delivering superior realism (albiet freakishly large though) and they are far better than what comes with a default figure (which is better for realistic proportions), so you can use them when you needed and not get stuck with baggage you don't need most of the time while working in Poser. Taking out all the morphs and removing parts not needed speeds up the figure in poser, which is good. There's a reason M3 has more clothes than M2 and one of the reason maybe because M3 is easier to work with. M2 had geometry switching, neat idea, but it was a pain in the butt because he would switch on his bits without your censent on his own alot of times (lol!), and morphs on the hip would go wrong. Apollo comes natural and has no off switch, so you hide his dangly bits in the hiearchy window but then you have a gaping hole in his hip. Unimesh males don't have those problems. So if you actually put clothes on the guys, it really is better, imho. I don't have P5 or P6 so I can't offer an opinion on Don or James. That's why they aren't in the lineup. Female figures don't have the same kind of overt problem as the males, but I know I don't like looking their gentils if I don't have to. lol! I figure hetro male clothing makers think the same way about making stuff for the guy figures. lol! bB

I don't find the bodysuits very useful, but people who are doing comic book superhero type renders might have a different view. :-)

Agree about David. I find his body and face morphs a lot better than M2 or M3. And I really like his "look" a lot better than AM, which somehow looks too "smooth" for my taste (even the morphed versions I've seen).

David looks like a slender young man, but don't be fooled. He bulks up and "ages up" better than M3. He's short, but scaling him up to about 115% fixes that.

P.S. If money is an issue, buy on sale. Everything in the DAZ store is on sale now, plus you get credit (vouchers) for future purchases if you buy before Wednesday. AM is no longer on sale, but if RDNA follows their previous pattern, he will be, probably around November.

*"I still occasionally use M2, but not often. I mostly use him when the face isn't important, because it's very difficult (for most of us, anyway) to get M2's face to look sufficiently different. I don't have a problem with his face, but I don't want all my male figures to have a lantern jaw and super-strong browbone, etc." *

NO offense but have you really spent time turning the
built-in Dails morphs of M2??
he has a wide variety of ethnic looks if one is willing
to use the Dials he has.
I have had no problems getting rid of the "Dan Farr"
face in fact here is a recent M2 character I did
to look like a young Samuel L. Jackson
and as for Appollo MAX it a shame so much time was spent giving him
anatomicly correct genitals&anus while totally ignoring his
musculature but he poses well that is a big plus for those who own him

A far as the genitalia issue I normally never Do male Nudes
and when the situatation calls for it I have the infamous
"Ulf" posable penis prop character for M2
and I personally dont really need a Detailed vulva&labia for my nekkid poser
women as I prefer my adult
females to look like adult females thus having pubic hair.

Message edited on: 08/01/2005 07:58

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have you really spent time turning the built-in Dails morphs of M2 Yes. I prefer David. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

David is the best unimesh males from all ive heard alot of variety in his morphs so its good theres alot of options for us all now remember the dark days of "dork?? :-)

My website

YouTube Channel

Hey, Dork can be cool too!

Message edited on: 08/01/2005 11:10

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

There you go , something for everyone :-) and he's easy on system resources for those owning older computers

My website

YouTube Channel

Here's a quick rundown M3-- He doesn't muscle up well at all, if you want the thin, pretty boy to feminine look, he'll do just fine. If you turn the muscle dials just a little you can give him a nice physique, but he's not really great for football players, warlords, barbarians and such. M2-- M2 is a killer figure, still among the best of the male figures, he muscles up well and at default has a pretty nice build. His face is very masculine and has a great variety ESPECIALLY with the Boris add-on by capsces. David-- David is what M3 should have been to begin with. Like M2 he muscles up well, great face too. He is very different from M2 however, if you decide on another male figure, you should defintely keep david in mind for a future purchase. Daz did a really good job on him The Freak--The Freak is one of a kind, one huge freakish dude, that you can't help but love. Only problem with him is, if YOU ARE not making a pic that needs a freakish guy in it you can't use him. His hands, feet and calves can't be resized, to make him look more normal Hiro--Has a youngish look to him, great for anime, i've only used him a few times, but I do like him. They really did him beautifully, because you can also use davids morph injections on him. Apollo Max-- Now here's the tricky one, not a bad figure, but needs work, IF you clothe your figures and put them in everyday situations he will probably work well for you. IF you do nudes and physique images he is a NO. He has muscle dials, but after you use them he looks bloated and has a bad case of water retention. Actually he looks best in his default state. Now capsces Cole pack (runtimedna.com)helps him a great deal, but I'm still having trouble giving him a look i'm happy with, still playing with him though. James-- james is a great looking figure, he definitely has a problem when posing his arms up though, he in only available with poser 6 Those are the ones I use, there are others,like the ones by pdxjims (poserpros.com) Hope this helps, feel free to browse my gallery, i'm one of the people that only uses male figures. :)

remember the dark days of "dork?? :-) Dork is the reason I bought Michael, the Millenium Man (way back in the days when DAZ was Zygote ;-). bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

hehe you said Dork twice :P

Not any more. (I deleted the duplicate post, for those who wonder WTF we're talking about, hehehe). bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

I solemnly swear that you were up to no good. :)

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

David 3 is a better figure than Michael 3 (I have both as well as ApolloMax). While he may not have as wide a wardrobe as M3, he doesn't seem to have the joint problems that M3 has. Personally I think D3 looks more realistic when sitting than M3 does. I purchased the David bundle when it first came out and paid a lot less that what it is now. I later upgraded the Standard map to the Hi-Res. It was a better deal to get everything in one package rather than separately.

The Poser 5 & 6 characters are fine if you don't have/can't afford all the other models and accessories, but they just don't do much for me. The Poser 6 figures are a step up from P5, but not as good as the Mil 3 figures.

AM (or APM) is too new and he doesn't have the wide selection of clothing yet. I hope soon because the body suits for any of the models are basically worthless unless you go around in life wearing a wet suit. He also does away with that annoying injection system which clogs our Pose folders. I just wish M3's clothings would fit him since I have a lot of M3/V3 clothing so I'm hesitant to shell out for the female version as well. The clothing line needs to pick up in a big hurry for anyone to shell out that much money for a model. Some hair would be nice too, not the conversions.

I vote go with David and the bundle. Maybe wait for the next DAZ sale. David is also more flexible in creating other figures and/or faces. I started with Poser 2 so if you've seen what those figures looked like, even the Dork looked good when Poser 3 came out.

Message edited on: 08/01/2005 22:42

Poser 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, Pro 2014, 11, 11 Pro

I solemnly swear that you were up to no good. :) Oh, most certainly. ;-) bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

Have you guys tried the free Zygote Man? Is he really M2? Also there's Project Human Male. Haven't tried him yet. And I just got the Boxer addon for Kongou (Heeh heeh!) and Cole for Apollo. Haven't had the chance to check it them out though. In my dream world of the perfect Male Figure, I would give M3: M2's build-in Muscle dials, David's morphs, Hiro's head, body and expression morphs; Hiro's materials, groups, and joints; Freak's Vein Bumps; Actual Eyes; Santania Addon; Apollo's rigging and ADS; and all this as easy on my system as Dork! That's not asking too much is it? ;) bB

"The mapping on Apollo is still not 100% perfect but that was done intentionally done according to Anton Kisiel to allow the figure to be less memory intensive."<< Antonio, this is not what I said to you. The tesicles, which you are having problems texturing, are UV unwrapped and though you may be having trouble texturing them, His testicles are unwrapped similar to how breats are. Texture compression is normal when you unwrap spherical shapes. Actually is UV mapping is superior to any onther Human figure available. In regards to pricing, Apollo is less expensive, per content, that any other human figure. He was on sale, like other figures, and will be on sale again. But even at $99.95, the same content for other figures, is more expensive.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

The Zygote man and also the woman are props, unboned and usefull only to study boning and morphing. At Project human there is a boned version of the female available.

Message edited on: 08/02/2005 13:16

---

Ulli

"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!"

I'll just add a side note to Anton's on planar mapping of spherical objects in general: there is no method of mapping a spherical object onto a planar surface that preserves shape, area, distance, and direction (i.e.: has no distortions). Distortions of one or more of these facets will always occur no matter what mapping method is used. Ain't much you can do about it except use the optimal mapping that introduces the least distortion in the most important facets to your needs.

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

there is no method of mapping a spherical object onto a planar surface that preserves shape, area, distance, and direction My husband works in the 3D field (programming and theoretical stuff, not as an artist) and there's a saying he has imparted on this topic: You can't comb a hairy ball smooth. Meaning, of course, that no matter how you comb the hair, there will be swirls and cowlicks and other oddities, because that's just the nature of a ball. And in this case, I think maybe you can't map Apollo's balls.... eerrrrrr.... Better stop now.... ;-P bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

lol. I like that one Bonnie. hehe You can map them though. Here is the template section. Now I may be missing something but what so hard about this?

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Got my husband in another window and he notes that it's a problem of projection. An example would be a map of the world, where certain regions look much bigger than they actually are (such as the Mercator, which shows Europe as being HUGE). The mapping looks okay to me, by the way. Much nicer than many maps I've tried to work with, projection issues or not. :-) bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

You know Wolf, I know you have several Apollo remarks in several other posts. I wouldn't mind so much but you tote your M2 as an out of the box figure. Your characters are not the default M2. You use Boris, 3rd part add-ons, freebies, won't post your settings, and post postworked images(and no Cinema 4d doesn't blur just the armpits). Now if you want to think M2 is the best thing since slice bread, that is fine, but it would be nice if your were at least fair/honest before bashing Apollo. Now I have used M2 as long and as much as anyone. And the faces you depict are simply not in his provided range. Period. I have the default M2 and would love your morph settings to get your "realistic" results above without additional purchases. Unlike your character renders, Apollo comes with everything I depict in my renders and ad images without the need for additional purchases or postwork. And are rendered in Poser and not Cinema4. I know this is silly, thinking that you are even interested in being impartial. I personally do not think Marvel commic cutlines define "realistic", but I would never deem to impose that upon you. Apollo is advertised as the "optimal" poser figure because he bends better, is faster, has more diverse morphs, and is better UV mapped, and has more capabilities for character generation, than any other Poser realistic human figure currently available out of the box. He can be a child, ogre, toon, hulk, etc without the need for addtiional purchases or hybrid figure splicing/morph stacking from other figures. And even at $99.95 he is less expensive for the exact same content for any other similar figure being he comes with clothing. hair. beard, poses, hi-res maps, etc etc etc.(all on page) :)

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Attached Link: http://www.dadhop.netfirms.com/

***" The Zygote man and also the woman are props, unboned and usefull only to study boning and morphing. At Project human there is a boned version of the female available."***

I am always amazed at the amount of disinformation spread around this place - I have had the free Zygote figures poserized by DAD on my my system for 3 - 4 weeks.

They are known as Z-Man and Z-Woman and are available free under the Open 3D Project License at the link above...

The supreme irony of life is that hardly anyone gets out of it alive.
Robert A. Heinlein

11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-11900K @ 3.50GHz   3.50 GHz
64.0 GB (63.9 GB usable)
Geforce RTX 3060 12 GB
Windows 11 Pro

One more before bed in regards to scaling. Sorry for the sloppy images, I just did quickie spins.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Stop spinning those dials! You're making me dizzy.... reaching.... for....0.o credit... card.... MUST.... resist! Oomph! Man that was touch and go for a second. I almost changed my mind about eating this month! ;)

hehe. I live on poptarts and coffee. it can be done!

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

I used to live on oatmeal, ramen noodles, and the occasional slice of pizza (at work, when we'd all chip in). Oh, and iced tea (homemade, i.e., a cheap source of caffeine ;-). bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

Ah! Ramen noodles! Comfort food. :)

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

*"I wouldn't mind so much but you tote your M2 as an out of the box figure. Your characters are not the default M2. You use Boris, 3rd part add-ons, freebies, won't post your settings, and post postworked images(and no Cinema 4d doesn't blur just the armpits). Now if you want to think M2 is the best thing since slice bread, that is fine, but it would be nice if your were at least fair/honest"* Anton, I responded to your IM **BEFORE** seeing this post so despite my promise to refrain from repeating my well known opinon over and over its only fair that I respond the to the assertions you have made in this thread,regarding the M2 imgages I have posted being unfairly postworked to create Imgages beyond what M2 can Be. Just for the record I Have purchased BORIS recently but havent gotten around to using him in of my publicly posted any renders. Yes I do use the FREE "spubba troll" CR2 to enlarge M2 wrists and hands on Bigger characters. this freebie has been around for years. NO poser figure Looks great out of the box but start applying muscle morphs and thats where you see if the creator took the time to at least ATTEMPT to adhere to the conventions of basic human anatomy the anatomy seen in NBA athletes,,Soccer players and bare hand rock climbers, NOT just mega-bodybuilders on steroids this is where DAZ Mike3 quickly dissapoints, as well all know Yes I render in Cinema4DXL and sometimes blur the back edges of my renders in post to mitigate mesh faceting and simulate a general depth of field. However the render engine in Cinema4DXL,Lightwave3d,MAX wont add **Serattus muscles,** separations between the front,lateral and rear deltoids or visible **quadriceps** onthe front of the thighs without serious micropoly displacement mapping. My version of Cinema4D does not even have MDP. So my M2 renders and the ethnic variety they show are Standard mike 2 except the larger hands as noted above. Below are some simple poser renders OF M2 highlighting the areas that are not yet available in Appollo. these have NOTHING to Do with comic book cut lines. Just basic anatomy from the very day to the exteme I know most people **dont care** about this but its not a *"vendetta"* to share ones opinons in the forums just as many are quick to opine how bad M3 "sucks" or V3's "Bent macaroni" shoulders and small "pinhead".

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Judging from the pics shown by both of you AM is clearly lacking a lot of detail compared to M2. I've been considering a new figure lately since I'm tired of M3/V3 and their inj morps. Although personally I don't like AM out of the box I do see he has some potential, I was doubting to get him or M2. Looking at all of this and seeing that AM is only defended by Anton himself I've choosen to go with M2. Unfortunally that means I'll have to spent some cash at DAZ. To see a figure only being defended passionately by it's creator is imo always a bad sign. If a figure is good, users should defend it with passion (like wolf does with M2) instead of the creator him/herself.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

If a figure is good, users should defend it with passion (like wolf does with M2) instead of the creator him/herself.

Or, perhaps it might mean that most people don't place as much importance on muscled up bodies that are way beyond what is considered "normal"?

For a human figure that will represent an average, every day person, Max wins ... hands down. For a figure that can represent characters of different ages and proportions, Max wins ... hands down. For a figure that can pose and bend far more naturally than any other figure, Max wins ... hands down. Just because Max doesn't meet the needs of a select few doesn't mean it is a failure as a figure.

Message edited on: 08/03/2005 10:06

"Looking at all of this and seeing that AM is only defended by Anton himself I've choosen to go with M2. Unfortunally that means I'll have to spent some cash at DAZ. To see a figure only being defended passionately by it's creator is imo always a bad sign."<< Excellent point aeikema. Excelllent point. You must be right. Save your money. Thanks Wolf! Hope I can return the favor someday.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

I prefer Anton's figure because of the superior rigging. A serratus or a separated deltoid can be morphed or displaced, but a broken spine and bad joint falloffs are much tougher to deal with.

Not only that, but it is easier to get styling IN than it is to get it OUT of a figure that has it built in. There is not one single figure that is perfect for everyone right out of the box. The type of figure that Wolf desires is very specialized - and I doubt that it suits the tastes of all but a select audience. If it were the other way around, and a male model looked like Wolf's figure in post 56 "right out of the box", you would probably see a lot more people complaining, and many less people purchasing.

it's all about Options built in . if the figure in post #56 was being advertised as the "ultimate poser male" for $100 USD and had no **built in** ability to look like the guy in post#55 or the M2 figure posted here(see pic), then the creator should well expect to have people post their objections/opinion in the forums. and saying "buy now at $100 USD and and wait hope for third party fixes to the base mesh via morph /displacement maps" is not really satisfactory for many buyers. But its a BIG market and we should all be glad their is something for everyone :-)

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But its a BIG market and we should all be glad their
is something for everyone :-)

My point exactly. 8-)

I like thinner males ... you know .. that Pierce Brosnan sleek and smooth look. M3 does that type of figure much easier than Max.

But does that mean that I think M3 is a better figure? Not necessarily. Technologically speaking, Max is far superior. I can also probably get the looks I like with some dial tweaking and fiddling with morphs, and perhaps even with some custom morphs of my own. What might take five minutes with M3 might take a half hour with Max. Is that worth making a judgement that Max is inferior? Nope, not in my book.

The lack of "kudos" for Max doesn't mean that people are unhappy with him. In fact, the reverse is true .. the lack of complaints about him usually indicate that customers are satisfied. People are MORE apt to voice displeasure than pleasure with something.

And, aeilkema, you aren't looking hard enough for people that have spoken out in support of Max. People may not have voiced their support for Max in this thread, but they have voiced it plenty elsewhere. And the fact that several Poser artists are already developing accessories for him says BOATLOADS already about his acceptance by the community.

Wolf, you have the right to prefer M2 over Max, that is your right and your preference. But because the figures you like are very stylized, it might be best to keep with what you are already happy with. No one is twisting your arm to get Max. 8-)

Basically, what it boils down to is this ... it's really pointless to ask "what is the best figure?" because we all have our own opinions and reasons for selecting the figures that we do. The only thing we can say is "This one does this well, and that one does this well."

If a figure doesn't do what you want it to do, you have the choice not to buy it, or to put a little bit of extra work into it to make it do what you want it to.

Message edited on: 08/03/2005 12:34

and saying "buy now at $100 USD and and wait hope for third party fixes to the base mesh via morph /displacement maps" is not really satisfactory for many buyers. Hmm .. seems to me that M2 was probably around that price when you first bought him ... and that according to your post above it took third party morphs and props to turn M2 into your "ultimate male" as well.

NOT to give him is proper/correct human musculature for medical reference/bodybuidling/ athlete type work those features come standard M2 as well as the face morphsfor the ethnic variety that created the sam jackson image the third party stuff was only to "stylize" his hands and feet and genitals and these are freebies BTW there is a CR2 hack for larger M2/Dork hands that was used to make the P4 dork based "Domus" figures hands/feet larger. so actually you dont really need the "spubba troll" freebie if you are inclined to hack CR2's yourself BTW I never claimed M2 is the "ultimate poser male" hes far from it :-) but other shouldl not make that claim about other poser males either IMHO LONG LIVE MIKE2!!!!

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M2 isn't the ultimate poser male at all, he's just very versitale and useful. If they would have called him ApolloMaximus I wouldn't have gotten him either. To give a figure such a name to me it suggest that it's the ultimate poser male and one can clearly see Max can never live up to his name at all. Well enough said about this matter, let each man/woman choose his/her own male (or female) figure. In closing let me chime in with Wolf: LONG LIVE MIKE2!!!!

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Hmmm... what can I add this thread without getting a bloody nose? First, We all have our favorites and are proud of our work. Let's try to be respectful please. Thanks. Second, Wolf, I think it would be good use of your time if you and other M2 fans ganged up on DAZ and demanded that they upgrade M2 to Gen 3 quailty. M2 has some serious hardcore fans. imho, Daz would be fools not to! Third, give credit where credit is due. Apollo is the best male figure ever offered outside of Daz, hands down, no contest. Apollo even smokes Mill 3 figures in several places for advanced Poser Engineering(TM) like rigging, ADS, and joints. Fourth, For a merchant to actually talk to, encourage, share knowledge, and problem solve for end users is a good thing, something to be commended! Fifth, just heard that M3 will be updated!! Yea! :D Sixth, Z-man has been rigged. D.A.D. over at the Sixus Forums did it. Seventh, if you get Wardrobe Wizard and you can convert clothes between the male figures and even raid the girl's stuff. After I saw M2 wearing Veronica Year 3, I had to buy that for my guys too! LOL! ;p Ninth, I live off of Poptarts, Arizona Peach Tea, Healthy Choice frozen meals, and when naughty, I eat Ben and Jerry's Cherry Garcia. LOL! ;) Okay. That is all. ducks out bB

I think it would be good use of your time if you and other M2 fans ganged up on DAZ and demanded that they upgrade M2 to Gen 3 quailty. M2 has some serious hardcore fans. imho, Daz would be fools not to!<< Gen 3 quality??? .. if that would mean Adding that inj/rem/chan/vis /delta bullsh*t... no thanks!!! but perhaps a new M2 Hi-res mesh backwards compatible with existing content. yep and wardobe wizard has given new life to ALOT of older figures and ende years of frustration for me waning clothing fo my voluptuous V2 and bulkier M2 characters

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Well let me just state for the record that while I don't own AP now, I will, when I have more poptart money to spare actually fork it over for him. Why? Because you can NEVER have too many guys! ;) This whole So n So's better than Whoosis arguement about Poser figures is so reminiscient of grade school playground arguement's of my dad can beat up your dad it's not even funny. Everyone, even Poser figures, is special in his or her own ways. Learn to appreciate diversity and you'll lead a much happier life.

I eat Ben and Jerry's Cherry Garcia. LOL! ;) I like Chunky Monkey myself. 8-D >>Fourth, For a merchant to actually talk to, encourage, share knowledge, and problem solve for end users is a good thing, something to be commended! Anton CARES about what people think - that is more than obvious. He has been addressing everyone's questions and concerns and trying to show people how to get the most out of Max. And he has a right to .. he worked REALLY hard on Max. He took the time to really consider what THE MAJORITY of people wanted and needed in a male figure, and he tried to produce the best figure that his technical genius could produce. But as many of us learned a long time ago in these forums, you really can't please everyone. I hope that Anton doesn't give up the thought of completing his female figure as a result of these types of discouraging comments. If he does, it's our loss.

Domus says:

Long Live Male Figures!

Nice to talk about those,variety is a great thing, having to choose among more male figures is a big plus!

Even dork can be usefull and Don is great for some type of renders...

M2 is the male figure I've used the most and still use!

I don't have Apollo but only for the UVS(the most logic I've ever seen!) and the poses he can take I say he is a great figure and quality shines, As for body definition I see enough polygons for this to be done...

pitklad

I posted this in another thread but I feel that I should post it here too. I have even added content so I cannot be acused of cross posting. smile ------------------------------------------ Anton Lovely work, sir. When it next goes on sale, I intend on buying the figure. I think that the low poly count is excellent and it seems to have accurate poly placement to emphasize the serratus area to me. I would love to see more examples of bends with him, more than what is supplied in the examples on Content Paradise but he seems like an exquisite figure, especially if what many experienced users glowingly say about it. Wolf: Please recognize the immense amount of work that went into Apollo. The figure itself seems to triumph where several others seems to fall slightloy short. The ADM dial ALONE increases the versatility of the figure quite a bit, not to mention I think many of the "problems" with the cut look on the figure could be handled with a clever bump map for things such as "cut" lines and vascularity. In the end, the supposed "lack" of lines is more realistic for those who seek a more versatile figure whose poly count has been kept lower because of it. For those seeking a very "cut" look, this can be done with a bump map, for EVERY OTHER figure with OVER 5% body fact (like 99% of the world's population of men) the figure is perfect. Moreover, if you are an artist that does postwork, the figure itself is a closer approximation (it seems) to the actual proportions and bending limitations of a normal human being. Muscle cut lines can be added in postwork. I want to state emphatically, I support postwork 100% for making the final product look better, its just impressive when none was done on a realistic piece of work. In short, Anton, superb work and I look forward to owning the figure. For now I may go with David and M2 for the amount of items available for them for poser work, but when I procure your figure, I look forward to adding to the content available for it. ____________________________________________ After having said this, I will most likely buy BOTH M2 and Max. To have two groups so divided over which set is best, OBVIOUSLY means both are fun to play with. smile takes out credit card Anton? When's that next sale? smile

You know, saying Max isn't muscled enough... You know, I'm mostly a student of the female form, but I've been thinking of doing a companion for Glamorous Jessi, based on stock James, the same way she is based on stock Jessi. One thing I wouldn't do though, is pump him up. Some say my ladies aren't realistic, but IMHO, there are far more women close to their body shape than to even the stock M3 or Max. 99.9% of the men in the US just aren't built like that, Gee I work out 3 days a week in the Gym, I probbaly have better muscle develpment than most men, I'm not even remotely built like that. (Of course I'm an old man, but the younger guys aren't really much better, mostly in America we are a flabby bunch.) Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that if I did him, he would be modeled on the order of Michelangelo's David, not Hulk Hogan. ;-)

Attached Link: Mike2 animation

>>"Muscle cut lines can be added in postwork. I want to state emphatically, I support postwork 100% for making the final product look better<<

I happen to be a poser animator
sorry... but painting in muscle definition on each frame
would not be a viable option ;-)
but im glad you are considering M2
he isa great all around poser male
and right now he can purchased right her in the renderosty
marketplace for $69 USD

for that money you get a CD that contains:
Michael 2.0
Michael 2.0 Texture Maps (standard res)
Morphing Flat Top
Michael Clothing Pak 1
Michael Morphing Clothing Pak for Clothing Paks 1 and 2 ??(Michael Clothing Pak 2 NOT included)
??Michael 2.0 Features :
Michael 1 .Obj
Brand New .Cr2 with Michael 1 Morphs
Plus Hundreds of All New Morphs ?- 105 Full Body Morphs ?- 243 Partial Body Morphs ?- 230 Head and Facial?- Structure/Expression Morphs
.Cr2 and.Obj Files Modified to Fit Michael to the P4 Man Proportions
Endless Morph Combination Possibilities For Differing ?- Physique ?- Age ?- Weight ?- Height ?- Ethnicity ?- Characters
Compatible with Accessories, Textures, and Morphs for Michael 1.0
Compatible with Accessories made for the P4 Male
Genitalia Option
??Michael 2.0 Texture Maps (standard res) Features :
2 Head Maps each @ 1450X1450 ?- Clean Shaven ?- Beard Stubble
2 Body Maps each @ 1950x1950 ?- Hairless ?- Body Hair
2 Bump Maps
2 Tranparency Maps ?- Eyebrows ?- Pubic Hair
14 MAT (Material) Pose Files to: ?- Access and assign the maps ?- Assign material Color beneath the maps for additional effects ?- Change eye color
??Morphing Flat Top Features :
Hr2 and .Obj files for the base Flat Top Hairstyle
18 Morph Targets including: ?- Spiked hairstyle ?- Feathered Hairstyle ?- VickiFit (fits hair to Victoria) ?- PreschoolFit (fits hair to Millenium -- Preschooler Boy/Girl) ?- PreteenFit (fits hair to Millenium Preteen Boy/Girl) ?- P4ManFit (fits hair to P4 Man) ?- P4WomanFit (fits hair to P4 Wo man)
3 Texture Maps @ 3000x3000 ?- Dark Brown Map ?- Light Brown Map ?- Blonde Map
2 Transparency Maps @ 3000x3000 ?- Flat Top Transparency ?- Spiked Transparency
5 Mat (Material) Pose Files to apply the Texture Maps and change Transparency Maps
??Michael Clothing Pak 1 Features :
A contemporary wardrobe for Michael
9 items of clothing
both formal and casual clothes
material transparency options for diversity
wide selection of footware
plus much more!
??Michael Morphing Clothing Pak for Clothing Paks 1 and 2 Features :
Michael Clothing Pak 1 Clothing Items: ?- Pants ?- Doc-Style Shoes ?- Shirt ?- Socks ?- Tie ?- Bow Tie
Michael Clothing Pak 2 Clothing Items: ?- Body Suit ?- Cargo Shorts ?- Tee Shirt ?- Running Shoes ?- Cowboy Boots ?- Sandles

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Jim please.. Default M2 is not modeled after "hulk Hogan" either check the skinny old guy in post #62 its M2 with 6minutes of dial turning

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Ha!- that is more my body type. Only older and not quite so skinny. It has been so long since I used Mike 2 I couldn't remember what he looked like. ;-)

I was going to throw out my 2 cents but after reading all that is in this thread, my 2 cents aren't worth much, so heres my 1 cent...I have a ton of great textures for M2, M3, and David. They are totally useless with Apollo. So nowm when good textures for Apollo comes out, I have to dump more money out of my wallet for them. That just isn't right. Apollo should have been mapped to accept current textures so people buying Apollo wouldn't have been stressed in the financial department to have a nice texture for Apollo. There was talk about a UTC update do those textures could be converted, but from what I've been reading about that, it looks like it won't happen because DarkWhisper doesn't think he will be able to sell enough copies. I can't understand his thought about that. We hear many people raving about Apollo but there as so few images posted anywhere using him except for RDNA. Why are so many people ranting and raving about Apollo but not posting pics of him except only at RDNA? Kind of makes you wonder how many of these people actually have Apollo and are using him. Now I'm going to hide to get out of the way of people throwing stones....LOL.

cherokee69, I'm not going to throw stones at you since I think you've got a good point. It seems to be the case indeed that Apollo is somehow not much being used at all. I've heard quite a number of people alrady say that they've bought AM, but they're not going to use him at all, for them he's redundant already. Imo a lot of people went with the newest hype in the power world, only to realize that they've bought something they will never or cannot use at all. Also the lack of content and the additional investments needed to make him useable and the refusal of merchants to create stuff for him, doesn't help much. To me he's seems to be next in line with Stephanie (1 & Petit), Mil Kids, David, She-Freak and so on. All great figures, but all lacking support and because of that they do have limited uses, no matter how great they are.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

My personal opinion is that the more male figures available, the better. I do prefer David and use him every chance I get, but I still use M2 (usually when his face isn't going to be visible), I use M3 (although I use a custom morph pack for muscular builds because I can't stand M3's native muscle morphs, YUCK), I use V3 Male, I use whichever figure is most likely to do what I need for whatever project I'm working on at the time. (I've even been known to use M1 from time to time; he's got a great "Fabio" kind of look if you do it right!). I understand that some people might not want to buy one or another, and might prefer one over another, but for pity's sake, having more choices is a GOOD thing, and we really should recognize that. People bitch about how DAZ has a "monopoly" and then complain when someone produces a new figure? shakes head bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

Bonni, a new figure is great. I do love the new releases of P6 figures (James, Jessi & kids) and some other figures there are around. But I think the main problem is with a lot of these non-DAZ and even DAZ figures is lack of serious support by merchants. A new figure is great, but spending a lot of money on a figure you can't really use, isn't that great at all. More choices is excellent, but I rather choose the figures that are useable in the end, even though they may not be the best.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Bonni, Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about a new figure at all. Having another male figure is great and I'm glad Anton went to the trouble to make Apollo. But what's bothering me is like I said above. I've spent a ton on money on some great looking male textures, the spent more money on Apollo and will have to spend even more for good textures for him because the ones I have and like won't work with him. That puts a strain on the wallet you know. Not everyone is fortuniate enough to have alot of money. When making something new, merchants should take into consideration of it might financially strain their consumer base if what they make isn't comaptible with what the consumer already has. That was a problem with DAZ made M3, he didn't work with anything texture M2 had so we had to spend more to get new textures. Luckely, DarkWhisper had the UTC and we could convert M2 textures to work with M3. That doesn't look like it's going to be the case for Apollo, In the Apollo UTX thread at 3D Universe, he has has refused, so far, to actually say whether he will make a UTC update for Apollo, which means as of right now, it's digging into the ole wallet to spend more for a good texture when someone makes one for Apollo. I've said enough, I feel like I would start talking in circles, I'm not saying anything else because it doesn't do any good anyway. I really feel I'd get better results by talking to the wall.

I really feel I'd get better results by talking to the wall. I feel like that ALL the time. ;-) bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

me too

Message edited on: 08/04/2005 06:50

LOL! ITAWTP. p.s. Check out the Daz Forums Apollo thread for interesting and funny non-RDNA picts, that's where mine are and several other people's too. I don't look in the Renderosity galleries so I wouldn't know where to send you on that count, but the Marketplace has Apollo stuff if you want to check that out. bB

People bitch about how DAZ has a "monopoly" and then complain when someone produces a new figure? shakes head Yeah ... amazing, isn't it?

" >People bitch about how DAZ has a "monopoly" and then complain when someone produces a new figure? shakes head Yeah ... amazing, isn't it?" Wrong on one account...What I'm saying is it's a shame to have a new figure and all the other stuff you have already isn't even compatible with it so now you have the shell out more money to get nice textures for it that aren't compatible with anything else except Apollo....if that's what you call complaining, you got alot more money to throw away than I do.

I Dont care about any alleged DAZ "monopoly" or any such other conspiracy therorist's Bullsh*t. I look at products on an individual basis no matter who is selling it. Oh and i dont see anyone "complaining" that somenone has produced a new male figure. but just because something is an alternative to the DAZ stuff does NOT mean it should be exempt from frank and honest review by potential buyers

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