Don't get me wrong, TY is a cute anime/manga character. I do see that at a bit over 10k polys, that she'd be great for animation; however, she crumples when posing. This crumpling creates breakthrough with conforming clothes. I have tried to model a pair of pants and a shirt for her, and it conforms well. However, the breakthrough is common when she is posed. I haven't tried any dynamic clothing yet. I do wish that she came subdivided. I saved the zeroed obj, and used it as my base in Hexagon. With just one level of smoothing, she looks awesome, yet just weighs in at ~43k polys, making her roughly 55% dense as v3, yet she looks as smooth and dense as a DAZ character. I just need a way to figure out how to group the subdivided model to co-incide with the original. With a little cr2 tweaking, I could make her posable again. I'd also encode her for distro, but I need E-frontier's permission. At any rate, I'll try to clean a few things up, and possibly offer this as a freebie. Let me know what you think. -The Starkdog

This looks real good. TamiL made pants and sweather and offered them as freebies in another thread. She said something about subdivision but I don't understand that. Maybe you could talk with her. Two heads are better than one, heh? ;o)

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I don't know if Hexagon retains the groupings within the .OBJ - if it does, you can directly use the Terai Yuki CR2 as is. Did you smooth her uniformly or did you just smooth the problem areas near the joints? The latter method is enough to get rid of those crumpling issues, keeping the polycount as low as possible. I don't have her, so I don't know what morphs she has. Fixing the morphs can be a real pain, I'm afraid.

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I vote for the subdivided mesh too! I have already done that but broke the facial morphs!! Oh well, who needs another smiling character anyways! Good work on the clothes, check mine out also if you'd like.......they are free! http://www.tigerdesigns-online.com

Yes, I've already loaded TY into Cinema 4D and dropped her into a HyperNURBS - and what a difference. Recreating the morphs will be difficult, but one reconciliation is that there aren't many to deal with. :)

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So, clue me in. Why is subdividing inside a modeling program better than turning smoothing on in Poser (assuming you have p5 or 6, which might be the answer:) I've been really happy with the smoothing turned in P6. eric

kuro - you could try dropping each morph that you want to save into a hypernurbs too (?)

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I just love her look subdivided once (about 43000 polys now). If only I could do the darned expression morphs without having to save out each look and subdividing!

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She always has the look of a deer caught in the headlights. Haven't seen anything yet that makes me want to drop $20 on her. Marque

I have lightwave, and it can retain subdivided groups and morph targets, all you have to do is import the base mesh and then the individual morphs(that are not that many AFAIK,I haven't bought her yet), and everything you do from there will be done in the morphs also, so after subdividing you just need to re insert the morph targets again, I'll try as soon as I get her on my end . . .

Hi Ascii, If you can do that in Lightwave- cool. I guess I will have to add Lightwave to the list of things I need to buy. I primarily use Hexagon, but am in the process of learning Carrara4. For those confused about subdividing, I'll post two pics. The first is how Terai Yuki looks normally. You will see the jaggedness of the low-poly cage. She looks fine in Poser, due to the smoothing angle setup.-The Starkdog

Here is how Terai Yuki looks with one level of smoothing/subdivision. This is how she looks at 43000 polys. Keep in mind that V3 is 75410 polys. For roughly 55-60% mesh density of V3, Terai Yuki looks incredible. -The Starkdog

For the facemorphs... Couldn't you simply set each morph (one at a time) to 1, then subdivide and save the head obj as a morph target. And then load that morph target to the default-expressioned, subdivided head? (does this make sense? I know how I'd try to do it, but I haven't got TY. Should work as far as I know, that's how morphs are made after all)

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I would be interested in whatever you do with her that makes her look better, although she looks pretty cute in P6 with smooth Polygons turned on.

Btw, anyone noticed the weird look of her right eye?

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Hmmm, looks like an UV problem to me . . . @ernyoka1: For me would be easyier to export the whole figure, then import in Lightwave and import each morph and hit "Subdivide" just once to have the base and every morph smoothed and the same time rather than turn Turn Dial to 1 > Export(obj) > Import(LW) > Subdivide > Export(obj) > Import(P6) > Repeat for the next morph, I wish this could be an automated process since the SDK and Scripting of Lightwave is very similar to C, maybe I'm wrong but I haven't seen a plugin for LW that can directly read non-compressed Poser files, and would be easy to figure out, the Props are standard obj files with some extra Poser text, and morph targets are stored as the difference between the vertex and that can be ported to LW . . . Hmmmm . . .

Message edited on: 08/15/2005 15:07

Looks like some triangles got their normals inverted. Can be fixed using the Grouping tool (though it'll be a pain) or UVmapper.

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Well, I made a long summerdress for Ms. Yuki, and she loves it. I just need to tweak how I set the poses by keyframe, so that the dress sits better. Overall, I think that dynamics are the way to go for very lo-poly characters. With very lo-polys, the mesh crumples when posing, creating breakthrough with conforming clothing objects. Anyhow, Yuki want to show off her new dress. -The Starkdog

Nice dress! Did you use the extra collision options (polygon-polygon and the other one?) They might be necessary for good dynamics calculations. I think the dress is quite low-poly too, judging by the fold on her left side. One level of subdivision and then calculated using the 43k poly Yuki - would look smashing, I think! Cool job.

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You do know that you can do it all in Wings3D. I have subdivided her and her morphs in wings. ernyoka1, What you said is how to do it. Don't need fancy/expensive apps. Free apps work just as well. I would show an image but I'm D/L a very big file and won't be finished for another 5 hours. Maybe we will get highspeed connection around here before I die of old age but I won't hold my breath.

But notice how round the bottom eyes are in pontomaus' post. That is super smoothing done by P5 & P6. If you are using those two, you should be able to elimate all jagies (unless they are just really bad). I could see crumpling in joints at bends, but that shouldn't interfere with facial expressions... I'm just curious why the additional smoothing done with later versions of poser isn't adequate. eric

Hi Mamba, The polygon smoothing in Poser is an algorithim which makes rough meshes appear smoother. In modeling apps, smoothing/subdivision makes the mesh more dense. Yuki is normally ~11000 polys(see above pic from hexagon). When I subdivided her, the mesh density quadrupled to 43000 polys(second Hexagon Pic). The smoothing/subdivision uses the Catmull-Clark algorithim. A single sided poly, when subdivided, yields 4 polys. It is this method that truly makes a mesh more dense, and reduces crumpling when posing. In Poser, even if smooth polys is checked, you are still posing a 10000 poly character, so you still have crumpling, -it just looks different. I hope this helps. -The Starkdog

Yes, render smoothing (in FireFly only, yet) is only a render effect. This will not help bad/inadequate mesh deformations. You need 'real' smoothing as in subdivision (SPD, HyperNURBS, other) to change the deformation quality.

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Using polygon smoothing in P5/P6 allows the modeler to use few polygons in areas that don't deform (much), such as the thighs, shins, upper and lower arms. Parts of the body that are close to joints (elbows, knees, wrists) or that need extensive morphing (lips, eyelids) need more polys, else you get bad deformations. Look at the default V2 mesh; you'll see that the polygon density on her forehead is much, much higher than on her thighs. V2 and M2 are very, very usable in P5/P6. Smooth polys removes the blockiness that the P4 renderer generates, and the polygon density is high enough in critical areas to allow for good bends and morphs. The polygon density of V3 is only necessary when using the P4 render engine, or when doing closeups.

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Here you go. Not rendered, just texture shade turned on. All morps working. I have the original for animations and this Hirez for stills. Always good to have choices. Guess I should model some clothes for her too.

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I opened up wings and couldn't for the life of me figure out how to import morphs? I mainly use Silo for my clothing and used it to subdivide Terai Yuki, but the morphs just don't seem to work. I've tried to export the head with each morph and subdivde and reimport into my new mesh but it doesn't work....I think it may have something to do with the loss of grouping on export, I have to regroup. Must be doing something wrong!

Just an idea, but why not make her head conforming like Neftis and DC's Eszter model. That way, the morphs stay put with her head, yet her body is subdivided. Maybe we can preserve morphs that way. The only limiting factor, is the mesh density of her neck. Just an idea. -The Starkdog

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Here is how to do it. Starkdog, what would be the point of creating HiRez figure then if your going to put a LowRez head back on.