I got Miki yesterday and tried her out. Good points-- the face looks pretty cute. She is a short, somewhat androgenous character, not the typical supermodel type. No major problems using the various accessories, though the hotpants didn't fit properly in one of the poses provided with the model. The writeup didn't promise body morphs, so I wasn't surprised that they weren't there. As purchased, she has one body shape, take it or leave it. I didn't load the motorcycle, but I expect it looks great. Love the goggles! Points of concern-- Her head is noticeably larger than Jessi's, so it may be necessary to scale her down in scenes with other models. She apparently has a different structure, so that poses for other models don't work right with her. I need to investigate this more to figure out what the differences are. It looked like she was getting twisted up some by the poses, which is a serious concern in my book! Her shoulder blades have an annoying habit over overlapping her upper arms, even in the pose that came with the model. She comes with three hairpieces. From the one I loaded and the others I've seen, I think these are pretty much unusable. Quite ugly, in fact. I do like the short haircut that's incorporated into her skin texture, which gives her a rather modern look. This is a great model to get for free. Not sure that it was worth the $29.95.

Good points-- the face looks pretty cute On that we agree. >>Her head is noticeably larger than Jessi's, so it may be necessary to scale her down in scenes with other models. Actually, her proportions are very realistic. We have grown accustomed to "fantasy proportions" of other models, which is why she appears out of proportion. >>She apparently has a different structure, so that poses for other models don't work right with her. The joints are different. Poses are not always compatible with other figures, especially if they have different geometry. You may be able to interchange poses that are shared between the Unimesh figures (V3, M3, Stephanie Petite, etc), but figures that are totally original will require pose tweaking regardless of who they are. >>She comes with three hairpieces. From the one I loaded and the others I've seen, I think these are pretty much unusable. Quite ugly, in fact. "Ugly" doesn't mean "unusable." They work, and you can always make morphs and textures that will make them more to your liking. >>This is a great model to get for free. Not sure that it was worth the $29.95. No comment on this other than that I disagree.

Are you sure that it is free? As I have understood (but english isnt my mothertounge)all that already have Poser6 only can buy this more cheap till the end of August.Only new buyers get it for free. Am I wrong? Sivana

He was saying that Miki is "not good enough" to pay $29.95, but she "is good enough" to get for free. I disagree with that.

Miki comes with a lot for $29.95 ... the base figure, some clothing, some hair, and that way cool motorcycle. If someone thinks that $29.95 is too much to pay for all of that content, then it is really sad to see what this community has come to expect from those of us who make content, and how much is expected for so little. It's no wonder we have lost so many wonderful artists and content creators.

Message edited on: 08/23/2005 12:30

Thank you, I understand now! Sivana

...... and will have Wardrobe Wizard support just as soon as I have finished the final testing. Expect the files to be on my site tomorrow.

Wardrobe Wizard!!!!

This will definitely make me a customer of Wardrobe Wizard by the end of the month. Miki is really freezing and she desperately needs something to wear ;-)) Thanks, Phil @joezabel: I think this package is worth it's prize. She's as good as V3 and you get a lot of additional things for her. Just waiting for the first 3rd party character packages for her... ...and we definitely need fit morphs for all popular hairs, like Grace Lion, hmann's and koz's hair...

"This is a great model to get for free. Not sure that it was worth the $29.95." I have no way of responding to this that wouldn't likely start a huge flame. All I know is reading it made me angry.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

I do not have her (yet), but if the comment makes Anton the great angry, I think it must be good value for the money. I also agree that we have been led to an idealistic and totally unrealistic body proportions where women in Poser are concerned (with some notable exceptions), so it is quite refreshing to see a model which actually looks like someone you would actually meet in real life, and not just in a supermodel circuit. Of course it would be cool to have a world full of Voluptuous Vickies, Glamorous Jessies and the likes, but that is daydreaming. I for one do lots of architectural renders, and in that context I need figures that the client can relate to and identify with. So cheers for Miki!

still hooked to real life and enjoying the siesta!
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Attached Link: only $29.95

heheh *rereads it* Yup. Still makes me angry. Unfortuanate how little quality 3d work is now appreciated.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

My mother will be having a very delicate surgery in three days. She is in very frail health and we are praying that she will pull through it (she's 77). That puts comments like those made here in a different perspective. So please bear with me as I speak out a bit. For those who feel that something isn't worth the price, all I want to say is "Can you make it yourself for that price?" Let's say you're an artist that makes $15.00 an hour at your day job. If you think you can create a human figure, three hair pieces, some clothing, a pair of boots, and a poseable motorcycle in two hours, then go for it. Chances are, you wouldn't even be able to complete one of those hair models in that amount of time. If you were aware of the amount of work involved, or even if you tried to save yourself some money and make them yourself, you would quickly realize the VALUE that we get in each and every item* that is available for the Poser community, regardless of its cost. All of the constant bickering that people do in these communities is so trivial and meaningless. There are things in life that are much more important to be concerned about. The Poserverse is a very small part of life. We ALL need to lighten up a bit, and help each other out, instead of beating each other down.

I think Anton's comment refers more to putting so much work into a mesh and then having someone complain about the price. Again not to flame, but look at what you get: a base figure, clothing, hair, textures, and a motorcycle. There are a lot more "mainstream" figures that sell for more without including any kind of hair, props, or textures. The community in general has been slow to embrace 3rd party figures. Even when figures are free they don't receive much support (ie Project Human, Furette, Maya Doll, etc) so there seems to be other factors involved other than the price...

Let's say you want a kid figure. You go to Daz and buy one. How much will it cost you ? Let's say you want a new white male character. You go to RDNA and buy one. How much will it cost you ? Well, in both cases, the answer for me would be "too much" because i do not have any use for these figures. But i wanted a realistic asian woman. I bought Miki. For $29.95, which for me is a decent and fair price. A bargain, even, considering that the "full price" is at $59 something. And that i would even have bought it for that price ! I already made an image with it, and i am REALLY satisfied of what i got for that price, despite the "face room" problem.

Message edited on: 08/23/2005 16:32

Attached Link: Barbie figures $29.95

I just don't understand where some are getting these dollar amounts regarding what they think something is worth.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Hehehe, Anton, but those aren't poseable. 8-D

I think the biggest problem with 3rd party figures is the lack of support for clothing etc. after they're released which is probably why most people stick with good old V3, obviously with Wardrobe wizard that will be alleviated to some extent, but it's still an issue. Apart from the motorbike, this figure offers nothing you can't do with V3 and her morphs! [ducks behind wall to escape the flak]. thefixer, poser coord.

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

thefixer wrote : "Apart from the motorbike, this figure offers nothing you can't do with V3 and her morphs!" Ok then go ahead, show us a V3 morphed into Miki-like... :)

I think the biggest problem with 3rd party figures is the lack of support for clothing etc. after they're released It works both ways, though. If you work very hard on a figure, only to have people complain about how it looks or how much it costs, what incentive does that give for the creator to support the figure? That's why I said we have to help each other out instead of knocking each other down. It has grown so old, and it doesn't do much to benefit this community except discourage people from doing more for it.

It wasn't my intention to discourage anyone, just stating how it is. I for one would love to have more than V3 in my collection but then I'd be limited for clothing and hence what type of scene I could do. Hopefully with wardrobe wizard and others of that ilk there will be more reason to have other figures but until that happens I'll be sticking to V3 because I can't afford WW right now or afford to buy a whole new set of clothing for various figures. thefixer, poser coord.

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

So, in conclusion, let us make a success story out of Miki, right? Spenders, spend Content providers, provide And everybody, help everybody that can be helped.

still hooked to real life and enjoying the siesta!
Visit my blog! :D
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People latch on the these cliche phrases V3 is three years old. SHe was derived on V2 which was derived from V1. Aside form INJ/Rem and JCM, the design and general sillouette has been the same for over 5 years. Of course she has more stuff. hehe. If children didn't grow, they would have a huge waredrobe by 5 too. :) 3rd party support isn't my point regardless. I suppose my point is people have lost the excitement and sense of moral support for figure creation that used to exist.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

figure creators have made a better world out of Poser. Can you imagine Poser6 with just stock posette and dork? shivers convulsively

still hooked to real life and enjoying the siesta!
Visit my blog! :D
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Posette wasn't that bad really. In her day she was quite cutting edge with transpped lashes and everything. hehe. People where so blown away by her. Of course that was post Poser2 but you didn't get all this: "I'll pass", "Yeah whatever", "not worth it in my book" stuff. The "Personal Figure Review" started pretty heavy when the Version 2's of the same figure started. Before that there wasn't the same need or urge to share views on comparisons.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Quite right, Anton. However, what I meant was that, part of what makes Poser great has been the content development that it has spawned. Not just the program itself has evolved, but the props, the figures, the clothes, etc. And SOMEBODY did all that work. Some are famous, some are not. But all have helped in making Poserworld the wonderful place it is. Hats off to Miki. And Apollo. Michael, Victoria, HIM, HER, PHF, PHM, etc etc etc. You bring spice and variety. And choice. If somebody does not like a figure, no need to complain. Just don't use it.

still hooked to real life and enjoying the siesta!
Visit my blog! :D
Visit my portfolio! :D

If somebody does not like a figure, no need to complain. Just don't use it. Exactly. 8-)

I certainly think its appropriate to be supportive and complimentary to figure creators even if their work isn't for you...

i think one of the problems is the fact most of us already have invested much of our cash into the previous figures, so it is almost overwhelming to get another figure , then have to start all over buying the stuff again. Of course , WW, helps, but not everyone has it or can afford it. There is a tremendous amount of complaining that there wasn't years ago, but I think it relates somewhat to my above sentence. But what can be done to stop the whining and complaining. Perhaps more education by the merchants and creators to the Poser community would help everyone appreciate all the work that goes into producing a figure, clothing, and so forth. I learned early on in my quest to learn 3D modeling that it wasn't all that easy. I've been using Poser since V1, when was that, 1994 or earlier?, and have seen things evolve, people come and go, and the community grow to a massive size. With that growth, plus all the changes of ownership of the software, and so forth, things have changed. The original "community" feeling has changed, with more nd more new people with different views and experiences. They were not around to see Dork 1, and maybe they don't really have the same level of appreciation for where this Poser community has come from....or the amount of work, as Deecey stated above, that goes into all of this. They come here to Rendo or other sites and see thousands of products...and they spend their money...perhaps they do not know what has been and all that is involved. I think the merchants and the older members of the community have to step back and teach others what the real deal is. Another part of it is the amount of quality free items that compete with the pay stuff. Much of the free items are as high a quality as pay for items. Maybe the stores have to be a bit more discriminating in what they sell. But whatever are the issues, it would be in our interest to support the creators or we may find ourselves without further developement and releases. And that would be a terrible thing

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

Miki has come a long way ... especially for $29.99 or even full price

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

Hehehehehe, I so wish I could find my Poser 1 and 2 disks! LOL

Oww my eyes my eyes!!!! lol Marque

I think another reason for the "I'll pass", "Yeah whatever", "not worth it in my book" stuff that Anton mentions could be due to the number of new figures being released. Back a while, a new figure release was more of a earth shaking event, so everyone "needed" it as it would be the only new figure for the next 8 months, but nowadays there seems to be a new figure coming out every few weeks. That could also be a reason for people saying that they don't need it, or its not cheap enough for them to get it (as they don't really need it and would be just getting it for collecting reasons) these days.

Dreams are just nightmares on prozac...
Digital WasteLanD

Well I think I know where they're coming from. It's not that her price is too high, but they had this 'Celebrating 10 years of Poser!!!' tag on her. Don't you think something that is celebrating 10 years of Poser would have morphs, and a decent texture map?

I too expected something more. $29.95 isn't too much to ask, but they should have not included that tag line that inflated people's hopes of a 'new killer figure' or something containing advanced features.

this figure offers nothing you can't do with V3 and her morphs!

You are dead wrong on that. V3 cannot be a realistic Asian woman. They try, with the International Beauties kit, but not very successfully. Some nice ethnic head morphs, but try to use the expression morphs with them, and the results are poor. Teeth poking through the face, weird wrinkles around the eyes, bumps in the cheek.

Look at Miki's expressions (as demonstrated by LaurieA). You can't give V3 lifelike expressions like that - not with her Asian morphs on, anyway.

I've been waiting for figures like Miki and Koji for a long time. Realistic ethnic figures, who can show expression without breaking their faces.

You do have a point about the support. WW helps a lot, but isn't the same as having out-of-the-box support. But I think Miki does have something unique to offer, so will get decent support. Still, I wish they'd offered us the same package they sold in Japan. It was $40, not $30, but included lots more clothing and hair. I'd rather have the extra clothes than the motorcycle.

But I suppose we'll see the clothing sold separately at CP, any day now...

I'm sure that $29.95 is a nice price for those who like her, but I think she's really homely. I went through the whole long thread with a bunch of renders of her and I personally thought she was a product that I wouldn't want to own for free, let alone pay for, but that that's just MY opinion. I know alot of people really like her and that's great. I just don't.

I think it's terribly rude of those who are jumping on joezabel for expressing the opinion that it might not be worth $29.95. SHAME ON YOU. Joezable was expressing an opinion and just because you don't share it does not mean you have to jump all over someone. For shame. Tsk tsk.

YES, creating these items IS hard work. YES, the content creators probably ARE underpaid for the hard work that they put in developing these products. But I think joezabel did a good job of expressing an opinion in a polite and professional manner and did not deserve to be attacked.

Wow, lots of responses! I certainly didn't mean to make anybody angry, I was just expressing my honest opinion. I think my remark was interpretted too negatively, as well. Just because I would be reluctant to spend $29.95 for something doesn't mean I think it stinks! The best favor we can do for content providers is give them our honest opinions. What good does it do to praise something to the heavens if nobody's going to buy it? That's just setting the creator up for disappointment! I think Miki will do quite well because of clever marketing, and because she fills a signifigant nitch in the market that the white anglo-saxon supermodel figures have left open. But I think in the long run, for the market as a whole, the best strategy for content providers is to sell works that have a high and consistent quality. No embarassing fright-wigs. No poses that show off flaws in the figure construction. Quality will turn your loyalists from a tiny mob into a teaming throng.

Here's the price comparison: V3 with her morphs is only 1/3 of Miki's full price. Miki is not worth $29.95 and certainly isn't worth $60 because of that, plain and simple. Is Miki a good figure, yes, but it lacks the flexibility that V3 does for a lot more money. I can only use Miki in renders that require an asian person in them. I can use V3 with any kind of person in it, period, V3 is that flexible. Miki also, for a lot more money, only comes with facial expressions. With V3's morphs, I can make almost any body type imaginable and a variety of unique looking faces. Here's what really gets my goat about Miki. When I bought the first, buggy as hell, release of P6, I got that lousy Winter Queen set with some of the worst textures and most undetailed meshes I've ever seen. Now, not only does someone get a version of P6 which isn't buggy, but now gets a MUCH better set for free. That really annoys me, but at this point I'm used to being mistreated by Curious Labs. It should be free for people who bought P6 up to a certain time, not just half price.

V3 with her morphs is only 1/3 of Miki's full price. Miki is not worth $29.95 Hmmm ... V3 is free. Her morphs are 29.95. Add to that 3 hair models (let's round them off at $15.00 apiece). That's $45.00 more. Then you have the clothing set ... let's say that's another $15.00. Then you have the motorcycle, there is one sold at DAZ for $24.95. Now we are up to nearly $115.00. Miki is overpriced???? Sorry, but when you make comparisons, you have to compare apples to apples.

You forgot the textures, Deecey. :)

Oh yeah, those too! ROFL OK, that'll be another $15 to $20-ish. ;-)

To add to the above ... I am NOT trying to make it look like I think the DAZ products are overpriced; only that Miki is NOT overpriced in comparison.

I like the DAZ figures as much as everyone else and use them often. They are great figures ... but I have yet to see ethnic characters from the DAZ figures that don't look like they are Amer-Asian, or African American, or some other ethnic/American blend. You CAN'T get the Millenium look out of them totally.

I truly hope that Miki is the start of a trend. Yes, it will be a niche market ... but I was immediately attracted to her realism. She's not "ugly" ... she is "natural." Very much so.

There is a place for the V3s and the Stephanie Petites, and the Apollo Maximis (LOL - is that the correct plural?), and the Natalias, and the DinaV's. What work for some don't work for others, and vice versa.

But there is ALSO a place, and a very BIG void, for realistic ethnic figures. Bravo for eFrontier for making Miki available to the US Market. I hope we see more ethnic figures.

Message edited on: 08/23/2005 20:25

"I can only use Miki in renders that require an asian person in them."

Obviously, people are polarized on the Miki issue. I agree that there is a very big need for genuine ethnic Poser figures other than Caucasian. I want them - I'll buy them when I see them. Hell, I even bought Miki, which I don't particularly find to be a great figure or a great value. But it fills a hole in my runtime until something better comes along. Bottom line: my motivation in writing this is to say something to the "content providers": lighten up. We pathetic, unenlightened consumers are entitled to our opinions as to what kind of value specific Poser packages provide. Poser is my hobby, and I spend WAY too much on it, much of this spending on a whim. But I still appreciate reading people's opinions on the value which packages provide to them. Just because you spent 4,000 hours perfecting your latest texture set or pose set or figure doesn't mean that it's worth $29.95 or $49.95 or $99.95 (?!?) to me or anyone else. Hell, you can spend the next 736 years building a full scale replica of the Washington Monument out of ziti and Elmer's glue and it won't be worth $29.95. Value to the (Poser) consumer is measured by quantity and quality and novelty and utility. Provide all four and we will beat a path to your door - some of you do (in my view) and you get my repeat business. Check your orders - you know who you are.

If you're a DAZ member, which is almost a mandate if you use poser considering how much money you'll save from just their $1.99 products alone, V3 comes out to a lot less than that. DAZ also has so many sales, that it's incedibly easy to pick up V3's basics for less than $30 and certainly less than $60. Not only can I also download enough free clothing to choke a horse for V3, but free textures that are a lot better than Miki's. So again, she's not worth the price tag. But I'm more upset about the fact that new P6 owners get it for free, when I had to beta test P6 when it first came out because they shipped it flawed.

Well I bought Miki yesterday but it's only because I was really too busy since she came out or I would have bought her as soon as she came out, the same way I bought Terai Yuki the day she came out and the same way I'll buy Kogi? when he comes out. I don't care if people like or don't like these models. I don't care if they think they are too expensive or not expensive enough, if they can be used in such and such scenes, etc. All I care about is that I am able to afford them and I like having them so I buy them. And when I don't like the new models, even if they are free, I don't download them. It is as easy as that finally. There's no use arguing about the value of something because its value depends mostly on the need or desire you have for it and there are as many different level of need or wants as there are people on earth. ;o) France

France, Proud Owner of

KCTC Freebies  

We are all entitled to our own opinion. Personally I think she's worth the money. Yes the hair is awful! I will not use it. The clothes aren't exactly everyday wear either, no problem I'll make some of my own. But she is a uniquely different model from the V3 clones. She has a bit of a shape to her. She is not amazon tall and she doesn't look like a Barbie Doll when you load her. I really like this model and Terai Yuki High Resolution as well! I say keep them coming, variety is needed.

Yes and did you see Koji???

France, Proud Owner of

KCTC Freebies  

Attached Link: http://www.e-frontier.co.jp/poser/miki-fig.html

Look at the Japanese Miki package. 9 hair styles and 11 pieces of clothing were included. Mostly normal street-style clothes. But no motorcycle. I want that clothing...

I want it too! We were given some flashy "good ole boy" type pack here. I mean not to diss the motorcycle, but, lets get real...........how many renders will have that in it and would you really go to the grocery store in that outfit???? I wouldn't! Koji will be mine too!

Exactly! It's funny, some of the Japanese customers are apparently annoyed because they want the motorcycle and the sexy clothes. But I'd gladly trade the motorcycle for some normal outfits!

It just seems a bit odd that they included a motorcyle and that sexy leather stuff. Seems more suitable for Yuki or Fei-Fei - glamor babes. Miki is such a realistic, normal looking figure. She needs normal clothes, like jeans and t-shirts.

I agree, but I did look on the site and see the Japanese pack......................it looks like Poser 3 or 4 type stuff to me. Just an opinion but, there are alot of free hair figures out there!

Not to inflame a flame war, but... Paying $29.95 for a fully-posable human figure AND clothing AND a fully motocycle figure is beyond dirt cheap cheap!!! How can anyone complain about a price like that when motorcycle models range from $10 to $26 by themselves... and they don't include a human figure nor clothing. (Check the marketplace here for pricing.) Oh, wait, because V3 is free, every human figure should be free. Right, got it. --John

VanishingPoint... Advanced 3D Modeling Solutions

I've made a couple of "I'll pass" comments about Miki, not because I undervalue the amount of work that went into her, but because whoever rigged her hobbled this excellent quality by dividing the mesh old-school (Poser 4) style. I've tried getting decent bends from Jessi, but that ain't happening without redividing the mesh, and I don't personally use Jessi enough to put that much effort into such an undertaking. Miki, on the other hand, I could see myself using regularly, but with a Jessi-like polygon count, that mesh redivision would be even more daunting. Please, eFrontier (as well as any other current/potential providers of new, high-quality content), encourage your talented figure modelers to divide the mesh "millenium"-style. I use "millenium" with quotes, since this style of mesh division was invented by Steven Rindone, AKA Torino, prior to DAZ's use of it. I just don't understand why such a useful innovation would be completely dismissed when creating such otherwise excellent new characters.

I don't think every Poser figure should be free. But we're talking about Curious Labs/eFrontier, the people at the core of this sub-set of artists. They've sold thousands of copies of Poser. They sold me a copy of P6 that was fatally flawed and literally caused me hours of work. But they're giving it away to people who get a version of P6 that works and charging more than what the market should bear for their new figure. Meanwhile, I got the Winterqueen and a broken version of P6. It's not fair and makes me feel mistreated as a customer. Now let's compare Miki to something like Appollo Maximus. AM is made by an independent artist who's hardly a corporate entity. He's charging $100 for his figure, and it comes with even less than Miki. Whether or not it's worth it for me to buy that figure belays the fact that I don't think he's charging an unfair price given who he is and what the economics of the situation are. Curious Labs/eFrontier have the ability to give Miki away for free or charge a reasonable competitive price for it, yet they won't because they've shown time and again that they hate their customers. I feel very screwed by them because I'm not getting Miki for free when someone who's buying P6 now will.

Main question for me as a (happy) Miki owner would be the support. For now, i've seen a free dress and her texture, an announcement about WW compatibility, and a clothing set for poserworld's subscribers. I can't wait to see some textures and clothes in the various marketplaces ! (hint...)

Oh and i forgot an important element : face morphs and BODY morphs too :)

What would Everyone like to see created for Miki,Yuki,& Koji and price would you like to see each item sell for ?

Well, I own MIKI and i like this figure. Even if you look at the mesh, the private part of the hip is fully designed and it should be easy to create some morphs for this. If you look at the hip of V3 in the mesh it's still like Barbie. You have to play around with clumpy dots. Also the price is fair and I think we will get clothes and more early on Japanese sites. Face morphs are available at poserclub.jp and I am pretty sure we will get some more bodymorphs soon. It is, as already stated above, an additional figure to increase the variety of models. Does everybody want to drive a Hummer?

Message edited on: 08/24/2005 04:18

---

Ulli

"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!"

Why do so many people repeat the idiotic chorus of "V3 is free, so all other figures are expensive"? Get a grip! V3 is what is known in marketing terms as a loss-leader. That means it is sold (or given away) at less than its market value in order to attract customers to buy related products at full value. V3 wasn't always free, remember? DAZ has already made a lot of money selling a huge number of copies of her, many more copies than they ever expected to sell, I'm sure. And they will continue to make money from all the V3 add-ons, and giving her base-figure away now will only improve that add-on market for years to come. V3 should not be used as a yardstick for assessing the value of figure packs.

But this is Poser we're talking about, and V3 is the core figure for Poser, so it is the yardstick and will probably be the yardstick for a while. That's the simple reality of the situation.

If Curious Labs wants to compete with DAZ for content, they need to measure up the yardstick that Daz has created. Having P6 come with what most think is a less useful figure like Jessi, and then doing something like overcharging for Miki, are not going to help them compete.

Customers are always going to go with what's cheapest and with what fufills their needs the best, and that's not Jessi or Miki. Oh and since I actually have bought Miki, I'd love to have a link to this dress freebie that someone mentioned. I know Poserworld has jeans and a shirt, but I hadn't seen anything else...

Message edited on: 08/24/2005 05:51

I like her. To me she is worth what I paid but I can see how others might think otherwise. It would be a boring world if we all thought the same way. I do think that CL/EF need to learn how to create JP's. They have not done a proper job on thier figures as of P5. Complete S*** if you ask me. Bend the forarm and your not sure if your bending it the right way, they both look like crap and lets not get into the hip and leg JP's. I don't know how anyone can say Miki is ugly. That would be like saying Judy is the most beautiful face ever created. Plain, normal, even average, but not ugly. Take a look at my feeble attempt at a texture. I just need to fix a couple of things and it's finished, the head that is. I don't know what caused the black marks in the render. I think it is the hair, didn't do it with a different hair.

Wow, that texture looks pretty good. Are you going to be releasing it?

even though I rarely use it, once the face room compatibility is fully worked out for Miki, that will be an added bonus. None of the DAZ folks work in there.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

Supposedly, the reason Miki and Jessi are not jointed "Millennium-style" is that the next version of Poser will have a new, advanced rigging system that makes the buttocks group unnecessary.

Here is the same texture but with the face morph I'm working on. Not sure if it's the nose morph or the texture that need some work or both. It still give an idea of what it looks like. You stil think she looks ugly?

Attached Link: http://www.tigerdesigns-online.com

Oh and since I actually have bought Miki, I'd love to have a link to this dress freebie that someone mentioned. I know Poserworld has jeans and a shirt, but I hadn't seen anything else...

Look on my site, LOL

Thanks... it looks great...

Your welcome!

I don't need her at the moment although she looks quite nice, but I was wondering if I upscaled her bike if I would be able to pose V3 on it? I might consider getting her just for the bike. Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

So far all the eFrontier meshes have very nice head geometry.

---

But unfortunately they even waste more polygons than the unimesh folks, and bend even worse.

So while $29 isnt too bad for a complete character with some add-ons, I rather play with my FREE EROKO/NEA hybrid character instead:

^-^

stahlratte

Tami, you do a great job! Thanks a lot! ;o)

France, Proud Owner of

KCTC Freebies  

but the bike - what about the bike! Does not your hybrid have to get around in poser land somehow? Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

Here's a picture of an unfinished WIP for Miki........its a bit strange I know, but I like it

It looks good. It reminds me of a dress my sister used to wear around 1968-69... My parents didn't like it for some reason. lolll

France, Proud Owner of

KCTC Freebies  

LOL!

I see changes and improvements to her daily. I have her, and really couldn't afford her since I already spent my pennies this month, but I see potential in her. I also bought V3, but if you remember we who bought her got a refund for her when they released her for free. Bottom line is if you want her get her....but if you don't like her then walk on. No one is forcing anyone to use this product. I personally am tired of all the models that look like they're on their way to a beauty pageant. She has a beauty of her own, and also looks like she could be your neighbor on her way to work. I do agree that it's a slap in the face that new folks who buy P6 get her free but that happens all the time now. Only way to stop that action is to boycot the next version instead of beta testing it...lol Marque

"but the bike - what about the bike! Does not your hybrid have to get around in poser land somehow?"

Oh, shes quite happy cruisin around in her FREE `57 BelAir:

As for the leather dress, I remember seeing very similar free ones at Yamatos costume festival.
Free Aviator googles can be had at RDNA:

Im pretty sure there is also a free Bike somewhere out in Poserland.
(BTW, theres a VERY NICE free Scooter at Posetteforever.)

As I said, $29 is not too expensive, but keep in mind that you pay for a mesh that weights more than twice than ApolloMaximus and still bends worse than the Unimeshes.
So Ill rather stick with my free stuff for now.
^-^

stahlratte

Interesting comments. Ok, everyone step back from poser a second. Back? Good. Have you ever walked into a store, and seen a movie you had NO interest in at all, and thought it was rubbish? But it's only $10! It's a HUGE value! Think of the huge number of artists, and craftsmen who worked on it! Dissing that movie is a disservice! Everyone should buy it, and encourage everyone else to buy it as well! Even if it's a Catwoman, Ishtar, the Island, Sky Captain, or House of 1,000 corpses! Now that sounds really silly, doesn't it? People have different tastes, and what one person dispises, another loves, but there's NO reason at ALL to get angry because someone doesn't LOVE a new poser character. All those afforemention movies cost a LOT of cash to make, a LOT of man hours, and ALL have lost major amount of money, NOT because a lot of work was put into them, but because many people just decided they didn't like them for one reason or another. And there's nothing wrong with that at all. If the poser market gets big enough, characters like Miki will find their own audience, and it won't matter if many of dislike her or not. if it's NOT big enough yet, the artist will realize it, and make something more palatable to the majority of users. Same goes for Apollo. I've no desire to own him, because I don't use many male characters in my renders, and while I consider Anton a good freind and excellent content creator, I just don't care for Apollo's "look" for some reason. But that should be OK as well. Just like some people hate toon characters, and most of my products support them, and they probably hate my stuff.. and ya know what? That's OK too. I don't believe the entire community needs to love every single figure being released, and I value the right and ability for everyone to say "I hate this figure, and it's not worth one red cent." Ishtar is not worth one red cent to me. Rap music and polka music is not worth one red cent to me. I love old cheesy sci-fi/horror,and love soundtracks, classic music and disco, and some people they they are all not worth one red cent. And that's OK too. My personal take? Too many new human characters coming out way too fast. Too many for a lot of support for all of them, and too many similar characters. (What, 4 or 5 new Japanese female characters this last year alone?) But that's OK too. There may be a HUGE growing Japanese poser market we are unaware of, and that's a good thing. Plus we see many VERY creative japanese freebie outfits, and with wardrobe wizard support, some of them can be converted to characters we prefer. So at the end of the day, it's all good, even if the majority don't care for something. I'll take Furette over her any day.. ;)

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

I like the red dress. Very cute. Reminds of the styles from the mid-80s. When clothing made of Lycra/cotton blends was all the rage.

Thanks! But unfortunately it conforms like crap, don't think we'll be seeing this one............

OMG! I don't believe what I'm hearing! Expensive? I guess I must just be a hard-core Poserphile or something. But I think this figure is just plain, downright, without-a-doubt dirt cheap. Her joints may not be all they can be (but aside from maybe AP, what figure's are? Vicky's could definitely use some work). As for Miki's face, I have never, EVER used a figure who is so realistically expressive, even after my some 7 or 8 years with Poser. She is cuter than a freakin' button, and even if she's not versitile in the types of characters you can create with her, Vicky's morphs for instance just don't do the job. You CAN'T get a truly good Asian or African woman from them. Why do ya think the galleries are saturated with beautiful big-boobed babes in high heels and mesh stockings? And almost nearly Caucasion women at that. Because you CAN'T have one model that is all things to all people, especially people who like/want versatility. There has to be models that fill the niche. Not everyone will want or need them. But for those who do, Miki is an excellent figure.

Laurie

onimusha wrote- "AM is made by an independent artist who's hardly a corporate entity. He's charging $100 for his figure, and it comes with even less than Miki." I don't mean to offend or criticize you but you way mistaken.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Regarding this term "3rd party figures": If e-frontier is 3rd party figures who is the first party? Koshini has more support than over half the mil line. I just don't like these cliches about 3rd party figures. Is the mil girls 3rd party? Is the baby 3rd party? What about the Girl? SHe is a daz ittem. She 3rd party? Guys V3 had very little when she came out. FOr a time the only major items where the ones I made for her. SHe is threeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee years old. :)

And speaking of Vicki content. How much of it is useless or unsold? How much of the clothing has absolutely NO morphs at all. How much of it doesn't bend beyond a mild standing pose.

It is all perception. These cliche generalized perceptions get old.

SHow me exactly how many V3 clothing items exist that contain all her body morphs. I am curious. That I didn't make.

Message edited on: 08/25/2005 01:25

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Too much coffee: One more rant hehe The future and sucess of figures these days is in the hands of the merchants They make for the cliche figures because they want quick and somewhat predictable sales. The dynamic to overcome is the merchnats. Personally I don't think merchants are willing it invest the time to get another figure off the ground. And this make for a very interesting dynamic in that even daz may not be able to make a new female successful. Then everyone is screwed because we will be left with roughly 4 figures in all of Poserdom to use. So when people gripe, throw out these slam judgements for all to read, the emrchnats read that and say "I'll pass". So everyone looses. IMO, if people want more "3rd party figure" support, stop picking and shreading every new figure. Consumers think it is helping developers by them insisting on what they want, but it just spooks customers and merchnats. It is having the opposite effect and killing potential figure support by merchants. IMHO. Especially when the info isn't even accurate or the person doesn't even own the figure.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

(too busy to read all this now - just bookmarking for later)

Cinema4D Plugins (Home of Riptide, Riptide Pro, Undertow, Morph Mill, KyamaSlide and I/Ogre plugins) Poser products Freelance Modelling, Poser Rigging, UV-mapping work for hire.

I bet if DAZ came out with Victoria 4 tomorrow, the merchants would all jump on board. At this point, "first party" is Victoria and Michael. DAZ's other figures have never gotten a lot of support, and still don't. (Unfortunately, since I like SP and David a lot better than M3 and V3.)

randym77 wrote:
"DAZ's other figures have never gotten a lot of support, and still don't. (Unfortunately, since I like SP and David a lot better than M3 and V3.)"

Me too ;oP. They may not have the amount of morphs as M3 and V3, but they look better, I agree.

Actually I like Aiko prolly better than any of 'em. But that's cause she's different. I like her because she's NOT so photorealistic, which has it's uses. But Miki is very realistic, especially in the face, and tho she may be just Asian, THAT has it's uses.

Laurie

Message edited on: 08/25/2005 06:02

I disagree that mercants don't get behind a figure they like.. I do it all the time, regardless of what the rest of poserdom does. And Aiko was off to a good start, and then word of moth has kept spreading, and she's become one of the most popular female figures. I'm kind of liking Neftis's new marketing idea, or doing a relacement head with compatible uv mapping.. nice idea.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

At this point, "first party" is Victoria and Michael. "First Party" would actually be the figures that come with the program. Anything beyond that is third party, including the extra figures being released by eFrontier. Michael and Victoria are what I would consider the most popular third party figures.

I bought Miki on the strength of what I've seen people do with her here in these threads. However, I haven't unpacked her yet because I'm waiting for the Face Room fix. Any word on that? Mick

I can only use Miki in renders that require an asian person in them. Uhh, as opposed to renders that "require" white women with big boobs and tumescent lips? I see roughly a dozen young Asian women a day, and we don't even have a Chinatown. Goll. M

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=2383904

Just a slight change in the xml file is all that is needed.

ARGH!! It's not coming through correctly. See this thread, but use the corrected part 3 in post #6

Message edited on: 08/25/2005 10:28

Attached Link: Stephanie 3 :$39.95

Just Trying to "Inject" Some humor into the conversation !

Attached Link: http://www.philc.net/WW_update.htm

The Wardrobe Wizard support files for Miki are now available on the update page.

I know "first party" is technically the figures that ship with Poser. That's why I put it in quotation marks. :)

But Poser is not the only game in town now. There are a lot of people who came through D|S. If you don't have Poser, you can't use Jessi, but everyone can use V3 and M3. Especially since they are now free.

I bought her because of the fantastic renders I saw in this thread and just a bit of a guilty conscience from all the cool freebies that Content Paradise has given me. This is only the second item I have "bought". The last one cost me a whole $2.00. Time to support CP with some cash.

LVS - Where Learning is Fun!  
http://www.lvsonline.com/index.html

ok, i'm very middle of the road here. people should be able to say negative things about any product out there. i think one big problem with the negative feedback people are giving is that it's not very detailed, or occasionally inaccurate. for instance, in platinum club, i paid about $35 for v3 and all her morphs when she was originally released and fully on sale. no textures, no hair, no clothes, no props. even accounting for v3 being free (and mind you, she's free after just about everyone in the poser community has her, not on her release, and i got a voucher, not a refund, that actually ended up with me spending more money for various reasons that make the daz vouchers a successful marketing technique), the extra money might buy one hair piece, one prop, one clothes set or one texture, but not all four and not multiple of any of them. and miki does have morphs- that's what face room support is. you could consider miki herself a freebie, and the price the cost for the motorcycle, clothes, hair and texture. even at full price. i don't expect to personally agree with joezabel's assessment, but even given that, i wish he had been more specific. why was the hair unusable? what about the hair is so ugly? as is, it's not very helpful for either other people thinking about getting her nor for her creator nor any future creators (make the hair less "ugly" next time? make a "not ugly hair" freebie?). that said, i'd rather have gut reactions than "everything's perfect, all the time" with no actually honest reviews. if no one had ever complained about the mil big cat, would the seams have been fixed? would daz have updated the mil horse if no one had said anything? that said, everyone who complained about the horse at least was incredibly specific about problems and posted photographs illustrating the correct proportion/conformation, or methods to make it right. i think we all need to put people's reactions in perspective. so, if you're a content creator, expect negative feedback from some people and expect a lot of the people giving the feedback to be neither very concerned with yor feelings nor very coherent about why they don't like it. i'm not saying that's good or fair, but that's how people are and getting frustrated at it will just raise your blood pressure. conversely, if you're posting complaints, don't expect the people receiving them to be any less than human. they probably put a good deal of work into something you're disparaging; in the best situation they're still going to be kind of offended. if you're not specific and don't provide details about what you do and don't like, they won't even have the chance to change. and if you speak in absolutes rather than specifics (e.g., she's not worth it to me or in my opinion, but just, she's not worth it), not only are you going to have people disagreeing, they're going to be angry, offended, and unreceptive. so don't be surprised if you're comments are "this figure is ugly and should be given away free," that people is take offense. again, being aggravated at completely predictable behavior will just make your life more difficult. i'm not saying i'm personally perfect in this area- i know i'm not. and i'm not saying people shouldn't express displeasure at behavior they find offensive. just voicing my perspective on the brouhaha. oh, and as i've stated in a thread at daz, i don't see why miki can't be morphed into other ethnicities any less easily than v3 (in reference to she can only be japanese characters). v3 is not generalized or standard for human. she's a bizarrely tall, small-headed middle american caucasian who's own creator's ethnic morphs, to my eyes, tend to look inhuman from any angle but the front and mostly create visible mesh distortion around the eyes at full strength (asian ones). if anything, miki's features look more like most people on this planet than v3 default does. she already looks a lot like a family friend who's part black, part puerto rican, and part unknown. frankly, i've always thought figure bases should be asian because more ethnicities have features close to asian than any other i can think of. i think it's interesting, though not surprising, that people seem to think of middle american "white" (in my eyes, v3 default is definitely not european or slavic or even standard east coast) is somehow neutral and therefore more able to acheive variety. i haven't seen anything in real life to make me think this is at all true. supercgpro - the only thing i really want for miki is morphs that are divided by side (left and right). morphs for face and body, morphs for both shape and movement. how much i'd pay would depend on the versatility of the morphs and the size of the set. i would't pay more than i do for capsces' or garee's morph sets in the same situations (i.e. sale release price, then regular). beryld - your miki character's eyes and brows remind me strongly of Julianna Margulies from ER. garee - all the other japanese figures i know of are fairly stylized, like eroko and ayame. they compare better to sara, alexa and girl than v3, imo. i know zock has another earlier one, but i can't think of other mid-ground figures off the top of my head - do you know more? but i know of absolutely no other attempts at realistic japanese figures, male or female. if you do, i'd be interested in links. TamiL - does it make a good dynamic dress? i think it looks nice and that might be a way to avoid difficulties with conforming. philc - thanks so much! yay! i think that wardrobe wizard goes a long way towards bridging both the real and perceptual content gap. hmmmmm. do you think a "how to make wardrobe wizard optimized clothes" tutorial or something like it would be helpful? i'm pretty sure buyers would find that to be a good selling point.

i'd like to add that i do like v3 and appreciate her and that i do think her morphs add versatility. i just don't think her mesh predisposes her to be more versatile or diverse. again, just my opinion.

I've got a problem with her motorcycle. The kickstand doesn't work! I do like the model. I'll have to make her some clothes, and probably some body morphs, but I like her realism. And I definitely like her non-V3 look. $29,95 is not overpriced. Actually, every Poser model is dirt cheap (just take a look at Turbosquid. I've been looking there for ships and a 17th century frigate there costs around $1000, while the Warraok Kitt at double the detail costs $15. Go figure).

The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter

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If you want to see some prices, check out the figures at Zygote.

Well I like her. At first I was unsure whether to get her or not, but because of the renders of her in this thread - went ahead and bought her. I have rendered her, and her face is terrific and can be made very expressive with the supplied morphs. Her body, while good, I suppose could be added to with more morphs, but when clothed, you can not see to much of it anyway, so you can get away with what she comes with. I tried the Pigtails, and that hair style looked very cute and rendered well. All in all, I think she will be an excellent addition to anyones runtime. Hopefully Merchants will support her more as people get over their initial reluctance of this new figure when they see what she can do. A good texture will make all the more difference too from the one that is supplied. Miki is cute, she is sassy, she is just one of us. Jan

Not versatile ? Ok, maybe not always pretty, but i guess it shows up that we can do lots of things with Miki's face... lol

Sometimes I am astonished about the discussions here. One group is stating its too expensive means everything that is not for free is too expensive. Even V3 is not really for free. You have to buy morphs, hair, clothes, textures ... to have full use of her. Or you have to look for freebies, done by people who like to contribute something to the community. But to do so, they need companies like Renderosity, CL and others that provide the space for contribution, support and all the stuff around. This is not really for free!! They have to pay for this. Also the artists, if they put their work on a figure, what do you think how many manmonths are in a figure like MIKI or V3? If they wouldn't be able to earn some money out of their work, who would create new figures? Sure I am also collecting freebies and I use them but very often I need something that is not available as a freebie and instead of sitting down for hours to create something (BTW, that would look mostly ugly) I look around through the shops and place an order. To be honest, most of the items are between 5 and 20 bucks and if you take your income per hour, its very cheap! And with this purchase you keep the artists busy and alive. In the other way, nobody is forced to buy MIKI or other figures. There are only 2 reasons to buy her: 1. you like her 2. you need her That's it! You can discuss here things that have to be improved but then you should have the figure and test it and then describe the things that don't work well exactly. Either one finds a workaround or you will get an update like done with Terai Yuki (HiRes). BTW, this is my private opinion and NO, I'm not a billionaire and I'm not an figure creator, I only want to be able to get the things I need for my hobby for a reasonable price in a good quality.

---

Ulli

"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!"

When I lived in Utah, folks used to insult each other by saying the other was "ignernt." It didn't mean "stupid," it mean what I call "not knowing how to behave" on some astonishingly basic level. There are some legitimate reasons to expect Miki to be free, and they've been stated here. But calling her "overpriced," which is what set Anton fuming, is disrespectful of the work that goes into one of these figures and, I suppose, a bit greedy. The MilDog was "overpriced," not because a dog model was not worth what was charged, but because it was poorly made. The MilHorse was "overpriced" because it was, in the opinion of many, junk. It bore about the same relationship to a horse as a Tonka pony. Renda was "overpriced" because she was just a transparent (and mediocre) ripoff of someone else's hard work. The Mil Big Cat was "overpriced".... Well, you get the picture. Useless junk is always overpriced. Something that doesn't work is "overpriced." But if Miki works, then she is not "overpriced," she just costs more than she is worth to some of us. The difference is subjective vs. objective, and I wish we didn't have so much trouble keeping them distinguished. "Overpriced" is a characteristic of Miki; "I don't want her that much" is a characteristic of the buyer. If I don't want AM, that's my business; saying he's "overpriced" is an insult to the enormous amount of work that went into creating this figure. Likewise Miki. I'd love to have everything I want. Once I win Powerball, I'll probably buy lots of stuff I can't afford now. But the fact that I can't afford it is not in any way an indication that the stuff is "overpriced." Saabs and Volvos are not "overpriced," they're worth more than I have to spend on a car. I can't afford $25 for a novel I will read and then pass along to a recycler. Is it overpriced? The author will get around $2.00 of the purchase price, and if the book has typical sales, a few thousand other people will buy the book. Three months' to three years' work, $2,000. That, as I understand it, is a lot more people than buy the typical Poser thingie. And let me pose a thought experiment for you. Suppose eFrontier had released Miki for free. How many complaints would we have seen from people who said they were hurting the merchants by competing against people who have to sell their stuff for a living and driving prices down? Not as many, of course. There is, after all, the "gimme" factor. When I look at how much time it takes me to create a bloody dynamic hoodless poncho, the idea of spending days building something with a challenge in it and then giving it away is a bit hard to grasp. And the idea of selling it for $5.00 and getting paid what works out to $0.38/hour for it... that doesn't ring my dinger either. I don't have enough disposable income to buy whatever I want, and I'm not exactly rolling in disposable time, either. My profound respect to the people who make freebies, and to folks who create and sell excellent models for the rest of us. If any of you are driving Ferraris to work, I'll bet you got them somewhere else. M

"The MilHorse was "overpriced" because it was, in the opinion of many, junk. It bore about the same relationship to a horse as a Tonka pony." I disagree with that statement. Maybe if you are a horse afficinato, an know every single thing about horses, including their muscle group names, he's "off" But as someone who just wants a horse to use in renders, he offers a lot of diversity, and is perfect for my uses. But everyone has a right to their own opinions.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

on the subject of the horse: i don't know that much about horses, and i saw some pretty obvious errors with him. and his mesh breaking when his neck was at a reasonable angle was a really obvious problem. even now, his legs just look off to me, and i couldn't tell you the names of muscles or bones. and if my memory is correct, someone in the daz forums mentioned having a client (a publisher looking for a book cover, i think?) who turned down their work due to the the horse's lack of realism. so, yeah, it's all based on opinion, but you don't need to be an expert to take issue with the mill horse. i keep hoping jim burton will resume development on his horse. again, i don't know much about conformation (more like, don't know anything), but i thought it's legs, chest, and shoulders were gorgeous. and anything made by jim burton would have lovely joints that bend well.

"it's all based on opinion, but you don't need to be an expert to take issue with the mill horse. <<<<" ------------------------------------------------------------------ Just as you did not need to be an african big game hunter to see how unrealistic the initial release of the DAZ big cats were :-/ and it's Friday so i wont even get started on M3's "muscle morphs" ;-)

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hey wolf, you've got the advantage of being able to compare M3's muscle morphs to the real thing. Most of us don't! ;-P

The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter

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Attached Link: muscular anatomy

Well i come to 3D from a traditional art background and I highly reccomend this book but it is nice to just look in a mirror for reference also ;-)

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Bure Hogarth has a number of books available. Great stuff, and has been in my collection for about 15 YEARS now.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

I was so disappointed in the MilHorse. I have to agree...it's poorly done and therefore overpriced. I don't know a lot about horses, either, but I think even the P4 horse looks more horse-like. The Milhorse can't bend his head to the ground to graze any better than the EdW's reworked P4 horse. It's a huge model, judging from how slow Poser gets when you load it, but somehow, you don't get a lot of realism for the memory hit.

I wish DAZ had showed us their WIPs before they had gotten the PAs to do all the textures, morphs, tack, etc. It would have been a lot easier to make fixes and incorporate suggestions.

Me, I would have suggested that they make the mane and tail smart props or conforming figures. That would give people the option to use low-res versions for long shots, or dynamic versions for more realism.

When did Daz ever ask anyone for for suggestions?...LOL. They're worse than this place in that respect ;oP... Laurie

I guess what brings it to mind is that they pretended to ask our opinion. They posted some renders here and asked what we thought, as if they were doing market research. Then it turned out that they had already made everything. Grrrr.

da bums

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

I stand by my MilHorse criticism. When it was released, people whose opinion and expertise I respect said it was badly done, and why. I passed on it. And yes, I'll replace my Charger with Jim B's horse once its out. I need an Alfred Jacob Miller horse, which I can't get from P4 or the Charger. I may not know horse anatomy, but I know dogs as well as anyone I know, and when I started working with the MilDog, I felt throughly ripped off and said so. But my point was not, Oh dos bums. My point was, "overpriced" may apply when the thing purchased is not what it pretends to be. Mick

And speaking of Miki: I unpacked her at work and played around a bit. Oh my she's fine. The Face Room works great, once you get it set up to work, and she has enough expression morphs to keep me for a while. I did run into an odd problem, which I probably caused myself. I used a Jessi pose on her that put her hands behind her head (relaxed 3), and got a quick lesson in how the mesh and the pose are bound together. Jessi has the most extraordinary detail in her elbows. Miki's are more what I expected, and as a result her elbow went totally loony. I don't have her here yet to try out, but I'll take a look at it this weekend. I'll be curious to see how fragile the limits are in the knees and elbows when they aren't being abused. And she is a world-class computer throttler. When I opened the four-pane viewport with full tracking, the computer essentially stopped. But beautiful and versatile? You bet. I got my money's worth, thank you. As with AM. Mick

I like her alot shes goit great character:) I think she's very cool:)

hmmm i remember when vicky came out how everyone thought she was uglie as sin, and a few people in the community made morphs for her and turned heri nto cinderella.

Oh yeah by the way for what i paid for poser 1 id say miki is lkight years beyond poser 1 and i thought they were really cool figures when they first came out lol..