PRESS RELEASE #50 FOR IMMMEDIATE RELEASE Eovia Announces Carrara 5 Extreme makeover of popular 3D software augments already impressive animation, modeling and rendering capabilities Mountain View, California, USA October 25, 2005 Eovia Corporation, developer and publisher of leading 3D software tools, today introduced Carrara 5, the powerful, approachable, complete 3D solution. Carrara 5 delivers a robust suite of modeling, animation and rendering tools in a freshly updated user interface. The highly-affordable Carrara 5 will enable users to create more freely and deliver high-caliber results under even the tightest deadlines. The significant enhancements to Carrara 5 truly drive home our mission to provide professional 3D software solutions at a price that fits into most budgets, said Eovia CEO Philippe Richard. Carrara 5 will stimulate professional users toward greater creativity and help them to stay competitive, while those who are just beginning to venture into 3D will realize incredible ease-of-use and unbelievable results. New features in Carrara 5 and Carrara 5 Pro include: a dramatically updated interface; a new graph editor that provides direct access to the motions curves of objects as well as parameters of animations; enhancements to the vertex modeler based upon Eovias wildly-popular Hexagon software; improvements to the already impressive rendering component including subsurface scattering, displacement mapping and ambient occlusion; addition of volumetric clouds that realistically scatter the light of the atmosphere; significant updates to the particle engine; extensive expansion of import/export format support to include After Effects and RPF export, match moving support for Syntheyes and MatchMover, and much more. For a more complete list of new features and enhancements in Carrara 5 and Carrara 5 Pro, please visit the Eovia website at www.eovia.com/products/carrara5. Eovia expects to ship the new release in December. Carrara 5 software will be priced competitively at US$249, with the advanced Carrara 5 Pro available for US$549. Upgrade pricing will start at US$99 for Carrara 5 and US$169 for Carrara 5 Pro. Customers who purchase the full version of Carrara 4 beginning October 25 will be eligible for a no-charge upgrade to Carrara 5 as soon as it is available. Eovia is also accepting pre-orders of the electronic version (ESD) of the Carrara 5 upgrades through the Eovia e-store. Those who pre-order this ESD upgrade will be able to immediately download the Beta version of the software. Complete details are available on the Eovia website. # # # About Eovia Corporation Eovia Corporation is dedicated to providing unique solutions for creative professionals as well as those just starting their journey into 3D. The companys award-winning 3D modeling, animation, and rendering tools offer superior versatility, affordability and unmatched ease-of-use. Eovias Amapi, Carrara and Hexagon software families deliver improved productivity to design and manufacturing environments by providing exceptional interchange with industry-leading applications. Founded in November 2000, Eovia has offices in both the US and Europe. Eovia Media Contacts Worldwide (except Europe)Karen Smythkaren@eovia.com+1 (650) 938-0515 x101 EuropeStefan Blombergpress_europe@eovia.fr +33 (0) 5 56 13 71 53

Sounds good, Cant wait to see what they did with the particle system, soft body dynamics would have been cool but maybe that will come as a plugin. Just went to check out the site but its not up yet :(

Well the new particle system is awsome. You can even use objects in particle.

The site is alive now.

If I had a dollar for every time I said "WOW!" while reading the new feature list, I would already have enough money to upgrade right now.....and I'm only halfway through the feature list. This is exciting!

Nice.

Just checked out the page lots of awesome stuff. I bought my upgrade to Carrara 4 pro on sept 26 does anyone know if this is close enough to be eligable to recieve the upgrade to Carrara 5 pro?

Yeah! Graph editing!!! Yeah! Hexagon features in vertex room!! Yeah! BETTER PARTICLES!!!! Yeah! After effects file import/exporting!!!!! (Easier compositing here I come!) Yeah! Bevels in the vertex room!! Yeah!! Ambient occlusion, Subsurface scattering, Microdisplacement, Volumetric clouds, Anisotropic lighting, Fresnel effect, and more! Beta copy, here I come!! :D

Wow, this is a much better looking upgrade than Carrara 4 was. C5 has so many things I've wished for... it just looks awesome. And the separation of Pro vs. Standard is more reasonable this time, I think. The Pro features are pretty Pro in nature. Last time you had to get the Pro version to get something pretty universally useful like blurry reflections. Very psyched.

Sweet! The development team has definitely been doing their homework. This is exactly the sort of upgrade I've been waiting for. This is going to be some real fun to work with.

wOw!! I did not see any information on symmeterical, it is really important for modeling tasks.

I told you it was going to be WOW and just the Eovia guys in the chatroom are talking ALL ABOUT C5. :-)

I was wondering when they'd announce this; I read about it three days ago in Digit magazine. :) This looks like a great upgrade (rather better than C4, IMHO). The SSS should please a few people.

Any info on whether it works better with Poser 6?

nemesis10, In the chat, Arnaud mentioned there was no change in the Poser 6 situation. Regards, Eric Winemiller Digital Carvers Guild Plug-ins for Carrara http://digitalcarversguild.com

Eric Winemiller
Digital Carvers Guild
Carrara and LightWave plug-ins

Eric- How soon until you get a SDK to update your plugins?

Downloaded C5 beta for Mac with pre-order. It seems promising but it is def beta. Much crashing, new vertex modeler yields no results for gordon, coons etc, objects as particle, does not work yet, freznel water shader applied crashes. Overall, it's kinda useless at this point and so far I would say the improvements in the vertex room are nice (when they work) but they are no replacement of Hexagon. This is just my first impression though. It appears that at this point After Effects export is only supported on Windows.

If you are an early adopter (I only know about mac) from my experiences I would consider this a sneak peak. It's def cool to see what it will be when it's done, but it is almost too buggy to actually use. I think it will be a really great upgrade when it's final.

If you are looking for high-end particles, more in-depth realistic soft and hard body dynamics and physics, really versatile modeling, fully animated shockwave exports, broadcast/pro implementation of all the great things you get at a bargain price with C5, you still won't be there yet -- keep looking at C4D, Maya, etc. If you want a fantastic all-in-one, affordable 3D ap that is incredibly robust for mid range work with features that encroach on the domain of aps that cost 4 or 5 times as much, C5 is king. Personally, I think the interface is beautiful. C5 actually does a few things better than the big boys. For what it costs, Maya certainly is an ugly beast to look at compared to the C5 interface for one.

From what I can tell at first look, I think most will be very pleased with this upgrade when the final version of C5 ships.

I'm on the Windows side of town and it works better in windows. Object as particles are no problem. Ringo

Half the fun of a beta is finding what needs fixing! Objects with particles are working for me on Mac. I do have an issue where the coons and gordon objects are created but don't alway appear in the assembly room but render correctly. Play with it and have some fun!

Well in for a penny in for a pound. I just bought Hexagon to get the tools that they incorperated to Carrara 5 and still haven't learned it, but I've been with Carrara since C1 so they'll get my money in the next day or 2! Hope it's easier to learn. mike

Beta-Testers, is there symmetery in modeling room.

Wow. Looks like Eovia have done a great job!

Gweb, at this point no. Only Hexagon 1.2 has a true symmetrical modeler.

would the gemini plugin possibly help w/ that? bummer. What about spline modeling..I am interested in ai support?

No need to think outside the box....
    Just make it invisible.

FYI, the C5 website mentions Edge tools and "Advanced surface tools" are NEW in C5 Std and C5 Pro. In the chat, Charles said, "the surface and edge tools are only in the Pro version". So you might want to hold off ordering an upgrade till Eovia gets the site all worked out as to what is and isn't included in the two versions. - Jasen.

OK, I've been asking about his since C4 hit the stores now I'll ask it of the guys that have C5 beta. Attached is a picture of Poser clothing (Poser scale) in the Vertex room, Director camera view, close up. as you can seen in a close up the handles, edge display and the actual vertex DO NOT line up. This makes it nearly impossible to do fine selecting in this mode.

I know pulling the camera out or scaling up the object is a work around for this but both of those create other problems if you're trying to model for Poser.

My question is, is this still the situation in C5. I see it advertises better OpenGL, so I wonder f this problem has been corrected as well? edited for typos.

mike

Message edited on: 10/25/2005 17:07

Ren_mem, Gemini can help. The Spline modeler in C4 And C5 supports .ai import - the Vertex modeler does not. Hexagon does. That said, there is still a month of beta and development continuing. You never know what might be included over the next few weeks. Mark

Hi Mike, I just checked. That same issue is still present. I know Eovia is aware of it. Hexagon works well for that though. We all want a single software package to do it all, don't we! ;)

Thanks Mark! It won't stop me from buying the upgrade, but I really wish they'd fix it. I can't believe it's that big an issue. mike

Hi, Mike. Now that you mention it, we will forward the info to the eovia team.

Pre-ordering the Pro version now. Does it ship with a printed manual?

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

Don't know about that Shonner...

Attached Link: http://www.eovia.com/support/bug_report.asp

Would just like to point out to everyone that if you do come across a bug. Please by all means post it here, the yahoo list, 3dxtract or eovia3d. But also please give it to eovia direct via the attached link.

I'm curious what features (if any) were removed from Carrara Pro 4? Are all the modifiers still there for example?

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

bluetone,

I've been told there will be a fresh SDK for the beta build soon. Many have already been converted so as soon as a new build of the SDK is available I should be able to post about half of them. The rest will follow a few days after that.

Regards,
Eric Winemiller
Digital Carvers Guild
Plug-ins for Carrara
http://digitalcarversguild.com

Eric Winemiller
Digital Carvers Guild
Carrara and LightWave plug-ins

Thanks for the reminder Brian. Shonner, I don't know that anything has been removed yet - or will be. Do you mean shape modifiers or are we using the same word to describe something different? Honestly, the feature list for C5 was growing so quickly and was so rich, I've had a hard time keeping up and testing everything. I'll hunt around for specific items if you'd like. :)

Shonner, I was told no printed manual, but you can buy it. I like the poser import w/ no poser runtime for daz characters. Matching those maps up is a royal pain.

No need to think outside the box....
    Just make it invisible.

Ren_mem, What's also great about the native Poser import is that a posed figure comes in with bones that you can adjust. :)

Eric- Thanx! I always know I can count on you for quick turnaround! :D Shonner- According to Bob during the chat, the pre-order, since it's a download, does not normally include the printed manual. I lost track (bcause I was SUPPOSED to be working at the time ;) but I think he said the printed manual was going to be made available for sale, if wanted. But I thought he also said something about a form to fill out, so I really think they haven't made up their mind yet. I doubt it will be automatically sent though, either way. Hope this helps. Ringo (or anyone else for that matter)- Are you going to make the chat available for everyone to download? Thanx in advance!

I'm glad my question brought forth some interest! I wasn't sure if theis was a bug carried into C5 or not. I made several notifications to Eovia when C4 came out ans was told that it was being looked into but it was never resolved, that's why I was curious about C5. I'll probably buy it later tonight or tomorrow. mike

I meant shape modifiers, Mark. And what about all those nifty light/lens flare effects? Are they still available. I need to install the Beta to get my fix.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

Oh yeah. They're still all there! Use them in good health.

Hi, Shonner. Everything is there, the "C" guys just love to add new stuff. I'm very please with this release. Ringo

Yeah, trav that looks buggy to me. How about physics?...any changes? Any nice joint presets geared toward humans?(glad for the improvements there) How about more procedural options? Also, the sales pitch says "fantastic landscaper", but I am not seeing any tree/plant improvements or options so am I missing something?(not trying to be derisive)I do see more presets, textures, and apparently "new" volumetric clouds. Trying to wait a bit, since I just got vue, but will be hard.

No need to think outside the box....
    Just make it invisible.

The plant modeler hasn't changed. But being able to add thousands of trees and shrubs to landscapes without creating a monster file is. I've found controlling them is very similar if not easier than Vue5 Infinite. Landscapes can now tile. Carrara doesn't ship with as many "sophisticated" plants as Vue. However, you can actually create them and control them to a level equal or better in Carrara - if you're willing to learn the plant editor that is. Physics is unchanged at this point. There are new joint/ik capabilities making it easier to finesse posing.

Physics is unchanged at this point. Untrue. Physics have been sped up substantially. At least from my perspective. They also seem more accurate. Plus the fact that particles are using the physic system now and have full collision detection with scene objects. There are so many enhancements and new features its become a joy to use Carrara now. I can check quite a few wants/needs off the list.

Well, I spent some time in there understanding what things are what. Still seemed limited to trees and bushes...that looked better, but needed help and very slow to render. The replicator is definite woohoo. What about translucence...not a biggy.

Message edited on: 10/25/2005 23:20

Message edited on: 10/25/2005 23:22

No need to think outside the box....
    Just make it invisible.

Well, I spent some time in there understanding what things are what. Still seemed limited to trees and bushes...that looked better, but needed help and very slow to render. The replicator is definite woohoo. What about translucence...not a biggy. Limited? Isn't it a Plant modeler? Or are you more refering to flowers etc? This can be accomplished by some tweaking. Just change the leaf shape. The reason the render time is so slow is because of the high poly count of the plants. Ways of speeding this up is to lower the generation count, the leaf count and the smooth level. If you replace the leaves with your own leaf model watch the poly count. The the replicator is wonderful:) Translucence? You can somewhat simulate this with subsurface scattering. In the chat event Charles talked about perhaps a fast translucence being added for the final release but thats not guaranteed.

I knew there was a way to fake translucence so wasn't really worried...no biggy. I was referring to different leafs and flowers in c4. Didn't feel like there was as much variety. Has this improved in c5. Believe me any, info on improving the plant designing is welcome. I went by playing and the manual. Didn't see that much info on plant modeling in c4 and I just wasn't seeing believable plants from c4 work. Now the picture on eovia's site next to the blurb on the c5 landscape looked good. The replicator will make a huge diff tho. I knew high poly, but vue is not so slow at this.

No need to think outside the box....
    Just make it invisible.

"My question is, is this still the situation in C5. I see it advertises better OpenGL, so I wonder if this problem has been corrected as well?" OpenGL is a lot faster on my system in Carrara Pro 5 Beta than Carrara Pro 4 was. The floating points are still a problem for imported hyper-smoothed objects.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

The key to good realistic plants in C is varied textures, don't just place a flat shade on the leaves or on the trunk. I believe there was a thread somewhere on renderosity showing the texturing of a leaf model and the resulting render (which came out very nice).

"OpenGL is a lot faster on my system in Carrara Pro 5 Beta than Carrara Pro 4 was. The floating points are still a problem for imported hyper-smoothed objects." What I found incredible is that with OpenGL I can now place a texture that is a video onto an object and then play the animation and see it in near realtime in the 3D view (textured shading). Something that was no where near possible in C4 or earlier. Its also a big plus with animating with bones. As you can see the movement play back smoother and faster.

The eovia site says upgrade versions do not qualify for free upgrade to 5. But they want you to buy version 4 to get 5. If you own a previous version, of course. How in the world would that work. I guess you just upgrade to 5 directly. That seems a bit confusing.

No need to think outside the box....
    Just make it invisible.

"Landscapes can now tile"

Mark, did you mean due to the Landscape Replicator the landscapes can now tile, or is there a tiling feature for landscapes I am not finding in the Beta?

Chuck

I'm so clumsy with words... :-/ You can replicate terrains and they will be tiled together. By selecting "Seamless" in the Replicator function, you can connect them together. There has been talk about truly fractal terrain tiling but I don't know if that is being considered currently or if Eovia has the time to implement something like that for the C5 final release. Eovia likes to blindside beta testers with new capabilities. :-D Oh, and don't forget the, "Create what I'm imagining" button is also on the list of to-do's. ;)

I think he was referring to the Replicator tool . You can replicate the terrain using the seamless function. Try the following: 1.add a terrain object. 2.drag the replicator icon to the scene. 3.In the sequencer drag the terrain object onto the replicator item to create a parent child relationship 4.double click the replicator item in the sequencer to go to the replicator editor. 5.For the Replication method use Autogrid. 6.Choose an appropriate number of objects. 7 Then choose Seamless at the bottom of the editor window. You should have tiling terrains now, the terrain object can be a Surface replicating group too ,I find the replicating tools to be very flexible. Hope this helps.

I'm a old Raydream5.5 user. Does anyone know if it's been officialy excluded from upgrading. I was just about to upgrade. Carrara4Pro allowed an upgrade from Raydream5.5. Now I can't find it and Carrara5Pro no longer lists it in the upgrade pricing. Am I SOL?

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

I'm pretty sure that RayDream and Carrara (with its new makeover) at this point have nothing in common anymore.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

I know that purchasers of C4 will get an automatic upgrade to 5 when it releases... maybe you can get in that way? Good luck!

That is a good suggestion, Bluetone. Ringo

Thanks. Great idea. That's a great deal. I'm looking at the Pro verison though.

Hmmm. I found the old C4Pro upgrade. It's still $399 to upgrade to C4Pro from RD5. The C4Pro to C5Pro upgrade path is then another $169. $468 total before shiping. Hmmm...2nd day shipping on bothe $19 each...looks to be about $508 altogether. Pretty darned good. Anyone got any idea what $$$ C5Pro might be expected intro at? This is getting realy exciting... :D

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

Hmmmm... your math dosen't add up unless one of your numbers is a typo.. $399 + $169 = $568 not $468. Just thought I would point this out.

Oops! Hahaha. Your right. Thanks for setting me strait. Maybe it's just simpler if just wait and see what full price is for C5Pro. The features on C5Pro are so exciting I can't do anything right at the moment. I'm watching the quick time render demo and my jaw droped. WOW! :)

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

mylemonblue- What I was saying is that Eovia says that if you purchase C4 now, you get an automatic upgrade to C5. If that's the case, then ugrade your Raydream to C4Pro now, and receive the auto upgrade AT NO ADDITIONAL COST to C5 when it releases. I'm not sure if it will work that way, but it might be the 'backdoor' your looking for to upgrade to C5 from Raydream. Good luck!

SWEET! Thanks bluetone.

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

Your welcome! :D

Upgrade purchases are not eligible for the no-charge upgrade. Carrara 5 Pro will cost $549. If you buy Carrara 4 Pro today for $549 you will get the upgrade to Carrara 5 Pro at no additional cost (except shipping if you choose a box version). Regards - Bob

Thanx for the clarification! :D For those who don't know, Bob is with Eovia. He should know! ;)

Re that Poser scaling issue: I've found if I select all then use the scale all command in the VM I can get a Poser object large enough to work with -- and if I do the same scale in reverse, it goes right back to where it was (at least, close enough for clothing pieces. Might be some morph shiver tho).

I'm on fence with this update. Definately worth it. But worth it for me right now, today? I've barely gotten into the functions I already have. About the biggest thing that would kick me over towards purchasing this week would be tools that gave me some of what I can do in Hexagon within the ways I've figured of getting Poser and UVmaps and Carrara's VM to play, if not nicely together, at least not entirely at each other's throats.

It's good to hear about the replicator. I was expecting to purchase Vue for that feature but was holding off until a C5 announcement. Glad I waited!

nomuse, your right about scaling and it's the way I usually work for new models (I don't scale morphs). It just bugs me that Carrara Vertex room was able to handle Poser stuff at it's native scale up until C3, but this problem cropped up in C4. Another thing I'm noticing in C5 (Which I got today!) is that in the vertex room, some times the textured preveiw doesn't show the textured colors. Anyone else noticed anything like this? I'd like to confirm it's not just my machine before reporting it. mike

As a potential buyer(looking for alternatives at the moment), the only thing holding me back is Poser 6 support. Until that happens, I'm afraid I'll have to hold off :(. Looks like an superb program otherwise!

mylemonblue, If you can upgrade to c4 standard you can then upgrade to c5pro. Don't know if there is a diff in your upgrade from RD5 to c4pro or c4standard. The only thing I find weird it they could have bundled hex w/ c4pro also. They obviously chose not to do that so you can buy it seperately if you want pro and hex.Otherwise your "free" upgrade will only be for standard.

No need to think outside the box....
    Just make it invisible.

ren_mem It would only work if I could upgrade directly from RD5 to C5Pro. Any time you have to figure a inbetween upgrade step the total cost runs equal or over full price. If I realy want it bad enoph I'll just have to pay full price. Thanks for trying though. :D

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

Eovia usually offers their products at reduced prices if you already own licenses from other programs that are newer than RayDream. Just keep looking on the specials page.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

Hi, Of Vue challenged....I'm currently rendering a short animation that contains over 1000 trees on a vast terrain. Flocks of birds frying out over the terrain all thanks to the new particles and all very fast to setup. I'll have tutorials coming soon.

Very nice ringo...can't wait to see. I actually just got a sealed box of vue that I am debating over selling...their upgrade path and very controlling sw policies are so screwy I really didn't want to fool with them and I got it because of the replication and plant related issues lacking in carrara. Other than panoramic...I don't know that c5pro isn't going to be better at landscapes that is why I was asking about the plant editor. I think carrara renders skin better.

No need to think outside the box....
    Just make it invisible.

Attached Link: http://www.kurtz-fernhout.com/PlantStudio/index.htm

Hey ren_mem If it's plants you need just download Plant Studio it free. http://www.kurtz-fernhout.com/PlantStudio/index.htm

thanks. Will take a look.

No need to think outside the box....
    Just make it invisible.

Are people using this on xp ok? I'm guessing yes, but it looks very old. Does the dxf look ok on import?

No need to think outside the box....
    Just make it invisible.

It works great on XP, I used it on Bryce 4,5, Carrara and Vue the imports are good (need some smoothing). It also exports to obj, 3ds and lwo

It's forever in my tool box.

Message edited on: 10/26/2005 23:53

Ringo please comment on symmetery. I do not think any of us would appreciate C5 without symmetery function except other cutie features listed in press release. I think it is a waste to buy C5 to use those features without complete modeling room with symmetery function.

Thanks Dennis445...probably have to get texture maker at some point too. It had said dxf, but I imported the models on the site...worked fine. Any tips on shading would be great. Starting to get the hang of the different channels. Have you enjoyed Vue? E-on seems kinda quacky :D Are there any new export formats other than the pro ones listed? Like realmovie, mpeg. I assume no flash...gotta get vectorstyle for that.

No need to think outside the box....
    Just make it invisible.

Does anyone know if you can animate trees and plants similar to the breeze animations in Vue? Not a deal breaker but just curious. It's nice to be able to create an entire forest on a landscape but it will look a little lifeless with any type of animation if the trees are completely still.

I dont think you can animate trees via wind, but you could setup some bones attached to the plant object then attached to an invisible object used as a control point.

Gweb, as mentioned earlier, C5 does not have a symmetry model function in the Vertex modeler. (Hexagon 1.2 does now) DCG plug Gemini can help with this for Carrara. The Carrara Vertex modeler is significantly improved by changing the modeling engine to Hexagon's. However, Hexagon is a better modeler with a more complete toolset. tkane, no tree animation at this point in time (but a slow camera pan can help disguise that) Carrara is really knocking on Vue'd door. The C5 volumetric clouds are better than anything Vue currently has. Vue still has a slight edge in environmental presets and richness of atmospheric editor at this point in time. As far as plants go, Vue has a very nice array of Stock plants that it ships with. However, the Carrara plant editor is much more powerful (not counting the motion capability of Vue) because you can actually add branches and leaves - you can't do that in Vue. The Vue plants do come with some excellent Alpha mapped textures for leaves and good textures but you can easily make those for Carrara plants too. There is no grass or small plant capability though Carrara yet - I wish there was. While you can create some excellent objects within Vue, the modeling in Vue is not as flexible or powerful as Carrara and there is no particle sytems either. Just the lunatic ravings of a madman here... ;)

Maybe I missed something, but will C5 or C5P have HDRI & IBL capabilities? TIA :)

Uhhh .....Carrar4 pro4 already has HDRI/IBL

My website

YouTube Channel

rendered in CP4:-)

My website

YouTube Channel

Thanks :)

HDRI been in Carrara sense version 3. :-)

Mark I already read ur post and I do not want to hear comments from people who are not from Eovia team. I ASKED for comments from Ringo no body else.

C5 will turn into a big garbage without symmetery function. I asked for it in every version since RDS. I think Eovia knew it and did not want to put it in Carrara to make it difficult for us.

Gemini is completely garbage.

Message edited on: 10/27/2005 15:09

You know G-Web, your commentary is not helping in this thread. I'm sorry if you aren't happy that your preferred features didn't make it into this build, but claiming that C5 will be "big garbage" is is poorly considered, as is your similar commentary about DCG's plugin. There are features I am still hoping for in future builds, but I think that Eovia is doing a pretty good job, all things considered. I think this looks like a pretty decent upgrade. When push comes to shove, if you don't like the product, then don't buy it.

No worries Kolschey. Everybody's entitled to an opinion. I didn't know I was on the Eovia team! You learn something every day. :-D

Symmetry is not planned for the Carrara 5 release. It is available in the Eovia Hexagon modeler. Bob Stockwell Director, Sales and Marketing Eovia Corp.

Eovia is doing pretty good job? I dont think so!! They knew we need symmetery function for modeling because all things are double, triple, quad sided! They just dont want us to finish modeling quickly.

Save your breath!! Let us do the complaint work. (sigh!)

RINGO I am still waiting for your comments on symmetery function.

Message edited on: 10/27/2005 15:47

Perhaps you should send him an email directly. Ringo is a very valuable member of the Eovia community, and he is well respected both inside Eovia and outside. However, he is not employed by Eovia. Bob

Thank you for clarification.

Does C5 Pro come with a newer version of Amapi Designer or was Amapi dropped entirely? Also, how does the implementation of sss look? Forgive me if it was mentioned and I overlooked it.

Tunesy,

I don't know that Eovia has decided what all is included with the release of C5 or C5Pro. I least I don't remember anything being said about it.

Amapi hasn't been dropped in favor of Hexagon. They both have different users. Amapi is definatly for folks creating 3D that ends up in the real world as products. Hexagon is a modeler designed for people specializing in imagery. There are similarities, but Amapi has some features for precision that aren't part of Hexagon including calculating volumes and Microscribe functionality.

SSS is way cool. Here is an early render I did with it although I've seen better ones since then by some of the other beta members.

Message edited on: 10/27/2005 16:26

Very nice. Thanks for the info, Mark.

GWeb.

Bob Stockwell has already reply to your question. No symmetry modeling in the VM for this release. Why are you asking for that anyways? Didn't you just purchase Hexagon and upgrade to 1.2 for Symmetrical modeling?
Maybe to you C5 is not worth it cause it lacks symmetry modeling and that is your opinion but it is not the opinion of the majority of users in the community. Not only has Eovia include a vast number of features in this C5 they have also reduce the upgrade price. Just look at all the new features it is more Bang for the buck.

P.S. Like Bob mention. I'm just a very active member in the community and sometimes people think I work for Eovia but I don't. I know how much work goes behind the scenes to get
"all of this features" done. Tons of work everyday. Even now they are busy getting everything final for the December release. Yes there are some features that I wanted that are not included in C5 but I'm very happy with this release.
Now to get back to the Carrara 5 questions.

Later

Ringo

Message edited on: 10/27/2005 16:33

Just to make MY statement... I've been playing with the C5 beta for the last 2 days and I think it ROCKS! The windows version seems to have a very few bugs and they are minor and the added tools make it much easier for me to use. I especial like the small tool that allows all edges to be creased or smoothed. This one small toll is about as handy as you can get! GWeb... I happen to resent that you think you can speak for "any of us" or "we"! Speak for yourself, but don't try to sound like you're the voice of all Carrara users just cause you can't get your "pet tool" in the program. I've heard this broken record for a year now and think it's time to stop. Your posts here, not to mention in other software forums, are constantly negative, well so be it, that's your right, but it's not your right to sound as if you speak for all of us. I didn't elect you to that positions and would like you to stop. mike

Ringo, symmetery function is just a simple feature that really need to include in Carrara for modeling to save us time from working on every side. Let me assume that modeling in Carrara never bothered you or you have never used it.

I am not in favor using with import and export feature to work with application to application. Didnt you know that it is really pain for modeling users.

Trav, who said you are in "US" group? Nope I never said you specifically. I have heard some complaints from other users about symmetery function not included in Carrara. No need to have ballot for this

Message edited on: 10/27/2005 17:22

Hear-hear Mike! I agree GWeb. Stop bothering the rest of us with your attitude. (Off my soapbox.) Now... regarding the stability of C5 Beta... I'm on a windoze xp laptop, and was running a 'particles bouncing off a terrain' (yeah! particles reacting to other objects and a 'gravity' force!! :D ) render as I also was cruzing the net last night. A website tried to load a popup, my browser countered, both lost and the program crashed taking the desktop down with it! (Explorer, not Internet Explorer, but the program we all see as the desktop) As the machine re-booted Explorer (for all essential purposes looking like my whole machine had re-booted...) Carrara was still rendering and finished with this picture. (Not the greatest, but they ARE interacting with the terrain and gravity) Now THAT'S stability! :D

Any chance this version of Carrara will be 64bit compliant?

...I've never been a big fan of the Eovia modeling options either. I use Silo and, occassionally, Amapi. But C4 Pro still rocks even if you don't use it to model. Looks to me like C5 Pro is gonna be terrific. I'm gonna buy it even though I probably still won't use the modelers ;)

For the record, I've been making plenty of symmetrical models in Amapi and Hexagon (before its 1.2 update) and importing them as OBJ into Carrara scenes for rendering. And having fun doing so.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

How does the water and foam look? As a Vue user I find the water/foam lacking in some respects. How does this compare? Hope I'm not being a pest, but the features in CP5 are all I've been looking for wrapped in neat little package. So as questions pass thru my wee brain I feel the need to ask. TIA :)

I do almost all of my modelling in Carrara's vm and although symmetrical modelling would have been nice , what they have added is much more valuable to me as a modeler. The new Extract edge tools,bevels,soft selections,the new selection tools and all the polyline tools and Gordon,Ruled surfaces,coon surfaces the manipulator... It is a long list of what they added. I will be very happy with using the duplicate with symmetry trick to mimick symmetrical modeling.

I am sure they all are nice features. To be honest I am really tempted to buy C5 because of those awesome features. Symmetrical modelling would be NICE and able to use most out of Carrara with VM room or other modeling room inside Carrara.

dlk30341, Water depends a little on your skill with the Shaders. However, with the addition of SSS, tileable terrains, the ability to animate displacement mapping plus HDRI, it's tough to go wrong. As for foam and that kind of stuff, patience is a virtue. ;)

Thanks Mark :).....be advised, patience is NOT one of virtues LOL...but I am getting better :) I do have patience in learning though. As long as I have manual & helpful people & some tuts I'm good to go :) I'd rather know things upfront, that includes all the pluses & minuses....I'm not into surprises ;) I do appreciate your time :) Thank You :)

I will reask...for those early adopters. Are there any new export options other than those listed in pro? Is the psd format maybe improved for example? Also, how about procedural materials, normal map support, and texture baking or are plugins still necessary for all of these? Is the GI illumination enhancement similiar to illumination baking or something else. Also is the render time improved? Also, how are the animation improvements? Would be nice to get a more detailed list of features on site, but since it's beta. Was that enough questions? :D

No need to think outside the box....
    Just make it invisible.

dlk30341 The new fresnel in the reflection and transparency channels help out with the water shaders too.

Very cool.....thanks mmoir...all the info is appreciated :)

Also interested in a reply to ren-mems thread too. This package looks very exciting :) Haven't been this excited in a while....it's sort of re-juvenating :) If you know what I mean.

I'm also going to email EF - regarding the P6 issue. I have my doubts about it being a Poser/Shade thing since the SDK went to E-ON. Just my worthless 0 cents. The only thing that really changed in P6 was the .dyn(dynamics).

What happens if you point C5P(beta) or C4P to the Poser6 .exe......does it just fail or what. The reason I ask, was I had P6 before E-ON got the SDK & I pointed Vue to the P6.exe(when Vue asked for the P5 .exe) & I saw no difference & had no problems(I don't use P6 native items). Just curious :)

Message edited on: 10/27/2005 20:23

dlk30341 I don't really use Poser , I have Poser 3 that I use for my Architectural renderings but I haven't upgrade to the later versions. From what I understand if you have poser 5 on your machine , then Transposer2 that comes with C5pro will work with Poser6 . Hopefully one of the poser/Carrara users will answer, I think this could be answered at the top of this loooonnnng thread too.

C(P)4 with Transposer needed Poser 4, 5 installed. C(P)4 with Transposer 2 needed Poser 4, 5 installed, too. I'm using CP5 Beta. It asks me where Poser 5 is installed if I import with included Transposer 2. If I import Poser 5 files in native format into CP5 Beta, I don't need Poser 5 installed. No mention of Poser 6 in import options.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

dlk30341 I'm not sure what your asking about C5 and P6, I've mostly used Carrara as a modeler and I'm only exploring the Poser stuff now.. I've very successfully imported Poser figures (Aiko, M3 and V3) into C5 and been able to pose them reasonably well with the C5 bones coversions using the native importer (Not Transposer yet). I've also been able to import P6 scenes into C5 and rendered them. I had 3 slight issues... One, the clothing I imported on V3 Girl Next Door 2 came into C5 as a solid color rather than the see thru it was in Poser, I'm not up to speed enough yet, so I couldn't correct that problem, but I'm sure it's on my learning curve not the programs. The second issue wasn that on opening the scene in C5, C5 asked for me to locate a file, but didn't indicate what file to locate (or even what type of file to locate) I finally realized it was looking for the .OBJ file for the tranmapped hair in the scene. Once I realized that and located the proper file everything worked well. The third issue is another shading problem, so, agin it's probaly on me to figure out what I'm doing wrong. GND2 uses Blackhearted's own eye figures and shaders. In C5 the eye shaders dont show up right and the eyes look strange. I've attached a fast render to show what I mean. If there are any tests I can try let me know, as I said my experience level is low in this area but I'll try.. mike

fwiw... c3, c4 did and I assume c5 does have symmetry.. and you can get this into the vertex modeller..but its not a set of plain steps to get it to do so. I built a crocodile in carrara 4's vertex modeler (yes it is the crocodile that I have in the marketplace here..and it is the best seller..outside of the bryce 5.5 tute dvd..that I have made) and I used "symmetry" in carrara to do it. and for my initial impressions of c5... it ROCKS with a capital RRRRRR the particle engine alone opens up entirely new worlds (literally) to c5 users..again, not so obvious..but now entire wars can be fought with 3 models and NO keyframes!..very cool. Im pressing it beyond what any 'sane' person would probably do..but no-one said I was sane..lol. It is possible to crash..and some things are a bit buggy, but its a beta and it is a "serious" upgrade. I also used to be confused as an employee of Eovia..which I am not. If they made a piece of crap, Id say so. But as of yet..from the creation of amapi designer forward, every release of every program they have set forward has been something of which they should be proud. my .02 :) BT

Lots of great stuff said here about C5, I think I will upgrade in a couple of weeks this will be the 4th version on my computer in 1 year. It looks like I may be able to get rid of Vue 5 I, Has anyone had a chance to try some bone animations with C5 yet? is it any better also the subsurface scattering what kind of control do you have, is it comparable to translucent pro for cinema 4d?

small example of the particle generator ...having WAYYYY TOO MUCH FUN! no one in their right mind would have attempted this (never said I was in my right mind..heh) ..but just for the heck of it I tried it. The model is a 50000 poly model made in Amapi of a p41 fighter...there are over 50000 of these in the entire scene..but from this view there is only a portion visible. all created with NO keyframes, one plane and one particle generator. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Carrara/files/test1.jpg it took a while to calculate, but not so long to render once calculated. anyhow, the possibilities are pretty much endless...parenting particle generators could allow you to fire a lot of missiles from one simple animation...so thatd be 1 plane, 1 missile and 2 particle generators. Imagine making a particle generator a child of the missile to generate sparks, smoke, or whatever. as I said... endless... :) BT

It all looks good to me. I think Eovia is moving forward in a great way. As far as Poser 6 import goes, well, it would be nice but what I'd really like to see just as much is DAZ Studio import. Seems like DAZ and Eovia already have somewhat of a business relationship. Daz studio is an up-and-comer, powerful and besides, it's free.

I wouldn't want to be on the other end of that :)

trav...sounds like old mapping and trans problems. Sorry to hear that...altho since you can pose in c5 it should not be as bad. Here is what to try. 2 things. 1. Just choose the transmap directly in alpha channel...the quick way. Or for some more control try basic variations of this. In the tree choose multichannel mixer then you have source 1(select multichannel) and 2 (select multichannel).In source 1 make sure transparency is set to none. In source 2 make sure transparency is 100% all else to none. In blender at the end set to texture map invert color then choose the transmap. The eyes are kinda the same problem...make sure to get all the parts of the eye set with the trans right.

Message edited on: 10/27/2005 23:41

No need to think outside the box....
    Just make it invisible.

robertzavala, It does supposedly do direct import, bones and all of daz characters. Only program I know that does. I don't know how well tho. The texture issues that trav was having were a bit disconcerting. But I don't know details. D|S isn't there yet, but if anything like the dynamic hair or cloth get in there...will be cool. Their sdk will be forthcoming. Other dynamics really would be great tho...was hoping for something there...that's why I asked about animation. The graphing should help. Blender's fluid dynamics should be amazing when it comes out. Would be nice to see more support commercially of some of blenders things.

No need to think outside the box....
    Just make it invisible.

ren mem, robertzavala, the bones import seems to be excellent. THe Operation of the figure is superior to Poser in some ways. However fine Posing suffers a bit. Again this may just be my own learning curve in switching between Posere and Carrara. I'm still working on it. I still haven't caught on to the shader trick. Selecting the garment and "playing" with the various shader elements HAS NOT resulted in any change to the garment texture?!.. I can't even get the basic color to change... So, it's time to hit the manual and see if I can figure it out from there. Tomorrow I plan to sit down and try some serious modeling in the VR. I've been playing a round a lot just to try all the new toys. I have a couple of projects that I've had on the back burner and I'm going to try one of them in the beta. Won't kill me if it doesn't work but it'll givem me a chance to try out some things. mike

"I am not in favor using with import and export feature to work with application to application. Didnt you know that it is really pain for modeling users." One advantage that you may be overlooking is something I find myself doing more and more lately. With Hexagon as my modeler I can keep right on modeling while Carrara is rendering in the background. Without an external modeler the Carrara render times become wasted (3D) time. I was rendering a pretty good sized particle simulation with several hundred poser figures running around while working on a model in Hexagon today. My pc is not that new (AMD 2800 -w- 1gig) but Hexagon did not seem to slow down much at all, with Carrara grabbing cpu cycles in the background. wayne k guam usa

Missed one point in my post: You can save your file in Carrara and render it through the batch renderer. Then you can open a second file and work on it, but it is pretty slow if Carrara is doing any heavy lifting with calculating GI, physics etc... whk

Just tried to import a daz file into C4, no luck. It doesn't recognize it. You can bring in an obj. in with the usual texture problems

Hi Trav, I'm no Poser expert, but this might be useful to you: have you checked to see if the texture (in Poser) is a bitmap or not? If it's not you'll have to see how it was made and then rebuild something similar in carrara. Otherwise the textures aren't loading in correctly - I just load everything in myself anyway. Also, is the clothing one object or a group? If its a group you'll need to texture each piece separately - not a problem with C5's new copy & paste options in the texture room (finally!) I have a question: has anyone managed to use SSS with a Poser character? And what settings have you used? This is one thing I haven't been able to use succesfully. The rest of the new features work fine, but so far rendering out Miki (EFrontier) has crashed/restarted my system everytime. Thanks

OK, a little annoyance in C5, that I'd like to check with others before reporting it. While trying to do a it of modeling in the Vertex modeller I noticed that I can't seem to drag the Drawing Plane as in C4. I tried Ctrl+click(drag), Shift+Ctrl+Alt+Click(drag), Alt+Click(drag), and Ctrl+Alt+Click(drag) and none seem to work. The drawing plan WILL move to a selected edge using Ctrl+Click on the edge. Has this been noticed by anyone else? mike

Trav, I can't move the vm's working box like in c4 either but I didn't use it that much. I would post this as a bug

I'm sorry I wasn't clear in my past question :( Regarding Poser6: When C5P asks for the P5 exe and you point it to the Poser6.exe....what happens? Does it crash? Or does it just toodle on along. With Vue, before P6 was implemented & the options were only P4 or P5.exe...I pointed it to P6 .exe & nothing happened, it just accepted it. Does that make sense? I hope I asked better, I feel like I'm being pest :( and belaboring this, because of my ignorance of this program. Thanks again :) I do appreciate any information :)

robertzvala, daz import w/ bones is for C5 not C4. dlk30341,there are people using p6 who have previous versions on their system. I would check the other threads in this forum for that (i.e. transposer2 or poser6 info), as they said there would be no change in that. No radiosity tho, right?

No need to think outside the box....
    Just make it invisible.

TransPoser 1 & 2 both choke if you point them at Poser 6. It wants to see Poser 4 or 5 installed on your hard drive.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

Thanks Shonner...that's exactly what I wanted to know :)

Poser 6 to Carrara 5: What about switching off the external binary morph and file compression options (Poser 6) in preferences? This enables Poser 5 to open Poser 6 scenes after a 'newer version detected' type message (minus any of the new shader features). As Carrara 5 can import Poser 5 scenes maybe that would work.

Poser 6 to Carrara 5, part 2: I just tried it - it sort of works: I saved a character from Poser 6 with the options I mentioned switched off, as a Poser scene (.pz3). It will OPEN (I haven't tried using IMPORT) in Carrara 5 using the native importer option, but some of the pose I used was missing (in the hands). Can someone who ONLY has Poser 6 try this and see if it works for them?

anastasis20, the V3 character I imported into C5 (native import not Transposer) seen up in post 120, was created in P6 and saved in an a .pz3 file. owever I do have P5 installed on my computer but I never pointed Carrara to the P5 runtime file and the scene file was saved on another portable hard drive for either P5 or P6. All of the "problems" I encountered importing it is mentioned up there. I saw no problem with the poses in the scene. mike

Anybody import from D|S ok? With the changes in material editor has this opened up more procedurals? Looks like the replicator performs well...how are the high polys rendering?

No need to think outside the box....
    Just make it invisible.

That's cool. It sounds like we're almost there with Poser 6 then. I posted what might be a solution for you earlier (post 132). It's still the only thing I can think of (bitmap vs Poser procedural textures). In my limited experience with this I tend to modify the basic bitmap textures in Photoshop & then set them up using Carrara only shader functions anyway. As Poser doesn't have any kind of texture baking & export options I've not really looked into it's texturing abilities. Also, if you haven't tried this, do a search on this forum for 'poser' - you'll find a lot of useful info on setting up poser hair and eyes (expanded versions of what ren_mem said earlier in post 126). Hope thats useful

Well, subsurface scattering is the only thing that would have justified me upgrading after the disapointing Carrara 4. But it turns out it's not really SSS, but rather more of a clever marketing "approximation". Displacement mapping we could already do with the Power Pack. What about Fresnel, I would have sworn that was already in C4!

petshoo...there are several plugins. One was for true fresnel the other fake fresnel.When the demo comes out you may want to try it, unless sss was your only interest. There is a lot of info not clear on what it really has or plans to have, yet. If you had to buy vue 5 infinite or c5pro full retail...It would be close they are both very on par...some features in vue not in c5pro or the reverse. Baking and radiosity for example...don't appear to be in c5pro. But Vue5 has poor modeling. Other things also. However, vue is probably due an update...not too long. Eovia has less confusing more affordable upgrade options and lets you update from 2 versions back at least. E-on does not give much of a break for upgrading unless you go infinite to infinite. If you miss a year...your history. I don't like that kind of attitude makes it TOO much all about the money...way too much of that going around on planet earth. If you spend that kind of money on a product...you should be remembered.

Message edited on: 10/29/2005 18:40

No need to think outside the box....
    Just make it invisible.

Just for the record. Carraras global Illumination is using much better than "radiosity" is base in Photon Mapping and that is much better than radiosity. Carrara 5 also has irradiance mapping with save all the lighting info of the file...this allow for very fast rendering of fly thru style animations. Ringo

I own Carrara 3 Studio and Vue5, as well as Lightwave, but that is another story. In my own experience Carrara is much quicker than Vue in most areas. Of course each serves a different purpose. I like Vue for what it does, but Carrara was already a sweet app, now it looks even better. From what I have seen so far of C5, it is a no brainer upgrade for me. I was a beta tester for C4, but I had to drop out of the beta program due to some things that were going on in my family life. After that I continued to use Lightwave, since I had used it for so long. However, I did use C3 for one job--it paid for itself on that one job. It will cost me $299 to get C5 Pro. $99 for the Standard. Pro has some features that Standard doesnt obviously. A lot of them I wont use, such as import/export. LW import is covered in standard. I prefer to model in Lightwave, although Hexagon now has my attention as well after using the demo. The important things missing in Standard appear to be the surface and edge selection in the modeler. However, if I get Hexagon as companion it will be $169. Hexagon plus Standard will be better for my needs than just having Pro and it will be cheaper that way. I am glad to see that they offer more than one version. I am also glad to see that they did not forget the previous users. I just fired up C3 again. I am still amazed at the render speed. For most of my work I would have been content with using Lightwave to model and C3 to render, but there was no reliable way to get the models in. Now, I am ready to get back into Carrara. Once again I figure even if I dont stick with it, one job will easily pay for the upgrade. Also, if I can get into Hexagon more, I may end up using it instead of Lightwave to model with. From what I have seen it is a powerful modeler. At the moment I am still using LW 7.5. To upgrade it would be $399. But I dont even come close to using all the features now. So I am holding off on that one. Instead I will just use C5 and Lightwave together and perhaps get Hexagon to fiddle with until I can get up to speed with it. I guess if you are a hobbyist the decision can be tougher. I am lucky enough to make money doing this. For me it is an absolute no brainer. I look forward to revisiting Carrara and implementing it more in my work. Good job Eovia!!

Just double check with Eovia what version of Lightwave will import into Carrara. Lightwave 6 seemed to work fine for me, but not newer Lightwave files.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

I have the demo of C4Pro and it works fine with my LW7.5 files. Thanks for the headsup though!!

ren_mem, from what I've seen, e-on let you upgrade between versions for the difference in cost. Like if you got Esprit first, and then upgrade to Infinite, it basically costs you the difference between Esprit and Infinite. I find this to be quite fair. When C4Pro was released, all the guys that had purchased Transposer or Amapi basically lost their investment. Wouldn't call that fair... As far as I'm concerned, the only feature that would have convinced me to upgrade immediately would have been Subsurface Scattering. But it appears that C5 only offers absorbtion, and I was almost a victim of their clever marketing. I agree with you that Vue is probably due for another upgrade soon, as well as other apps. That's why I'll wait for the trial version of C5 before I take any decisions.

Yey.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

There is still a content disk w/ c5 right?

No need to think outside the box....
    Just make it invisible.

yes there will be a content CD with the final shipping version in December.

Does the find tool work any better for c5...never seemed to really work.

No need to think outside the box....
    Just make it invisible.