A while ago I asked that you would do an interview and answer some questions for us at the Worlds of Bryce, hoping that by answering some perfectly reasonable questions you would indeed offer some form of explanation to what your art was about. You didn't need to explain yourself, but you could certainly have told us what it was that made your art tick for you. You replied with some excitement telling me to send the q's to you, but to make a note that I'm from Renderosity, so the mail wouldn't get trashed as spam. I sent the questions. Two weeks later, at the height of a certain debate, and without a single reply. after I had commented on one of your images (link), you asked that I should "please now delete that very negative comment". Whenever you did receive negative comments, you deleted your images and reposted them, only to have droves of people re-comment as if they were some automated program of sycophancy. I politely yet sternly refused and said that I stood by what I said, that "it's rare when a community doesn't want to put down someone, but rather wants them to improve." Your reply, that I was someone "lashing out because they didn't get some crock of shit interview" and that I would make myself "look like an asshole all on your own" were hardly warranted. I replied yet again stating that it wasn't the interview, it was merely a matter of stimying the growth of others while presenting a false example of what an artist should be, again without expletives and what not, got me into the "moron" category, at which point I was told to "go away and play on the highway now." Fun. Dearest, dearest Unnamed Artist, First of all, allow me to present to you my heartfelt apologies. I didn't make myself clear enough. I don't care your images make it into the HOT20 every couple of days, or that you have a number of friends who repeatedly vote them into that hall of dubious fame. What I mind is that you are merely a represention of what art should not be, a category of mass-produced and poorly thought-of kitches. What I mind is that I get those sorts of replies to perfectly valid arguments, that when a number of people try to wrestle you out of your type of repetative and boring thinking, you don't even listen to their suggestions. What I mind is that you can not accept criticism in an open and transparent environment, and that through your host of yes-men and gludeus maximus kissers, you set a bad example to all those artists who would rather improve themselves. Short of lowering myself to your own level and telling you to eff off and stick a rainbow piramind up your self-righteous ass, I will no longer pay any attention to your crappy art. Back pattingly, Draculaz

Well said, well put Draculaz! It's rare that a serious topic's wriiting makes me LOL; which yours did, my familarity with the coloring book art in question and that gallery denizen's bolus sucking behavior negated the need for excessive mental excercise. Bad example notwithstanding, the really sad part is newbies are left with the impression that that iIS talent. Of course, assuming they have some independant brain cells in their craniums; they realize the truth of the matter. Sazzart

wow..thought I'd screwed up somehow again..;) well, sounds like they might not be worth talkin' to..

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

Lets hope the other viewers of he/she's (yes i do know which sex!) gallery will also have the guts to saying something which could aid he/she in to use something else for a change.........We live and wonder :(

Smile, your dead a long time :)

Why don't we call him/her DUA (...you know, like NVIATWAS except it stands for 'Dear Unnamed Artist', and yes, I also do know DUA's gender)...

Seriously though, I'm not sure that DUA is receptive to ANY suggestions and advise other than WOW, GREAT, SUPPERB, etc. This has been made abundently clear by DUA's response to any and all comments or critisism other than WOW, GREAT, SUPPERB, etc.

I think we're beating a dead horse so lets just leave it alone. The sad part is that it gives newbies the false impression that this is some of the best that can be done in Bryce, after all, it IS in the Bryce Hot 20. Thankfully there are artists like Hobbit, Beton, Gevidal and too many others to mention that do manage to get their work voted in and showcase our BB's capabilities and, more importantly, their artistic ability.(BB=Beloved Bryce)...

Edited to add credit to the artists, where it belongs - software is just a tool, like a brush in a painters hand or a chissel in a sculptors...

Message edited on: 11/20/2005 17:08

Guslaw is wise :)

Smile, your dead a long time :)

Al to true, indeed rather delete a picture than having to face a real critics time after time. I did comment on one of "Her" pictures in about the same manner, that there was no growth, no improvement, no exploration and that it frankly had little to do with Bryce other than pressing a few buttons and waiting for a few minutes and that it should be more at home in the writers-gallery.

Appearantly i am a boogeyman for some of them, i guess i now have done it since the person in question has deleted that picture (the one with the multicolored aztec temple terrain that comes standard with Bryce).

"You know, if I catch wind of you leaving an abusive comment on anyone's Image I will take it up with the moderators."

"I am not afraid of taking it up with the moderators. I simply hoped that you would see the wisdom in what I said and think twice about leaving a destructive comment."

As i said earlier these people need to grow a thicker skin. If this was abusive and destructive, than they ain't seen nothing yet.

Message edited on: 11/20/2005 18:41

Robert van der Veeke Basugasubasubasu Basugasubakuhaku Gasubakuhakuhaku!! "Better is the enemy of good enough." Dr. Mikoyan of the Mikoyan Gurevich Design Bureau.

It's been taken up, and going to be dealt with. AgentSmith

Contact Me | Gallery | Freestuff | IMDB Credits | Personal Site
"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"

My only beef it that they have found a way to make the hot 20 their personal gallery and we are missing out on a lot of works that dare I say it, might be more worthy of such an honor. It is ok to make simple images and fine for some to like it. While I feel you have a right to make underwhelming art you should not make it so that is all we can see by rigging the system in your favor. Leave some room for the rest of us. If their stuff is that good then I suggest posting at CG talk so they can have an additional source of overwhelming praise.

The wit of a misplaced ex-patriot.
I cheated on my metaphysics exam by looking into the soul of the person next to me.

I commented on the same image you did, RobertJ. All I did was remind people what the commenting box is meant for, more or less saying what Guslaw said in another comment. I received an IM in return from the "DUA". This IM was so abusive, attacking and even threatening you wouldn't believe it. After checking up on the TOS, I contacted the admins. I've been told that it will be dealt with, and I suppose that's what AS is talking about. Still, I think this is a sad story. I've seen several good artists offering their help and kind advice, and it's very sad to see it received this way.

Come join the Rendergods!

@Ek-art: it looks you got worse than i did. @Dann-O: I don't think that they found how the system works, but rather that the E-bots provide for them with a positive feedback where the praising and voting becomes an automated system. To-do-list: Start computer recieve E-mail from Rendo Click on link Vote Leave mindless drivel Do something else You only need a few people doing that and you can get away with it. But we now are at a point where these people start seeing themselves as a group, and that group is under attack (or so they think).

Robert van der Veeke Basugasubasubasu Basugasubakuhaku Gasubakuhakuhaku!! "Better is the enemy of good enough." Dr. Mikoyan of the Mikoyan Gurevich Design Bureau.

why not just name the artist , i never visit the h20 and am wondering who its about?

for some free stuff i made
and for almost daily fotos

To reinforce RobertJ's pointA while back there was a problem with pictures showing up in the gallery. DUA had posted a new (and I use new advisedly) picture. One of DUAs fans left a comment that (s)he could not see the picture put that (s)he will rate it as EXCELLENT anyway, sight unseen. I feel this is totally unacceptable. This whole fiasco is as much a fault of the minions of DUAs fans who mindlessly post empty, meaningless platitudes as it is with DUAs antisocial, arrogant attitude

Hmmm to do list get some minions. Personally I think the easy solution one which many might not like is to limit people to one hot 20 image at a time. I really don't like going after someone like this and as a mod would try to implement a solution that maybe would piss off everyone. (like limiting one image in the hot 20 per artist each week)

The wit of a misplaced ex-patriot.
I cheated on my metaphysics exam by looking into the soul of the person next to me.

WOW, a real-life "La Femme Nikita" - a non-conformist.
Bloody hell, and freakin' awesome!

Who on earth has the right to dismiss what this artist is doing. I mean a "Sphere Over Water" is one thing, but at least these images have some artistic value, and unlike some, don't appear to be there out of insult.

If some people would pull their head from their assholes for even a moment, they might actually see that this is an artist into colour and fractals, and is using Bryce as just another form of outlet.

I'm not surprised that people are getting "responses" from the artist - what do you expect?

LFNForever, - yep...I'd say (and whoever you are, don't change)

Len.
(pumeco - also non-conformist)

The wait can be horrific, but the outcome can be worse - pumeco 2006

sigh

marcfx: try using a cube or a pyramid LMFAO!!! Each to their own I suppose. Let it ride people, the hot 20 is obviously, well most definitely for a laugh. Some of the artist Fractal & Abstract work is cool:)

I never intended to make art.

@Sans2012 I was only trying to get her to try something else....she might like the results.........I wasnt de-grading her in any way..........like you mentioned.......some of her work is cool ;)

Smile, your dead a long time :)

pumeco and all other supporters of DUAs art DUA has every right to post anything (s)he wants as long as its within the TOS (even SOWs).

You, as well as anyone else, have every right to accept and embrace DUAs work and comment accordingly.

DUA has every right to expect and receive praise from admirers, followers and fans.

DUA also has every right to ignore or reject (well meaning) comments or suggestions from other viewers.

Im not sure thats the issue and I dont think that anyone wants to deny DUA those rights but, as long as the comment box is enabled

DUA does not have the right to deny anyone their right to post comments or suggestions other than glowing praise

And finally, DUA does NOT have the right to respond to these comments or suggestions in an anti-social, abusive and threatening manner and THAT is the issue.

(...stupid typos)

Message edited on: 11/21/2005 10:25

guslaw is wise. and there's a difference between a non-conformist and an idiot. drac

I just spent 1/2 hour typing out a response outlining the deeper issues involved here and they would not post it. Great commitment to honesty.

@guslaw
Well first off, you could hardly call me a supporter of this artist. Until I followed the link in dracs post, I never even knew about the artist. What I "am" a supporter of however - are people who couldn't give a shit what others think, no matter how they handle it.

The bottom line is they "couldn't" give a shit, and don't "pretend" they do, just to conform to everyone elses idea of artistry. THAT'S my issue here, and the reason for my post

@draculaz
So what "exactly" did you expect to get out of this interview (apart from the obvious)? Personally, I think you met your match, and the only reason this thread is here is because you didn't get your own way.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to share "artists" opinions on the WoB, and I've no doubt it would have been a good read had you pulled it off. But the fact that you just couldn't take the rejection and leave it at that, loses you points of respect (with me anyway).

I can think of only one reason for this thread, but I'll spare you the details, and hope you'll spare me the respone. Because I, just like the "unnamed artist" - couldn't give a shit.

Len.

The wait can be horrific, but the outcome can be worse - pumeco 2006

umm.. lol. the unnamed artist you speak of is banned for 3 days for posting copyrighted material. I'm not. drac (would you like an interview, len?)

btw, pumeco, you're always invited to #rendergods for a chat. now would be great, since we're both online, as well as the other ppl :) drac

Great going pumeco, i can see another locked thread comming.

Robert van der Veeke Basugasubasubasu Basugasubakuhaku Gasubakuhakuhaku!! "Better is the enemy of good enough." Dr. Mikoyan of the Mikoyan Gurevich Design Bureau.

pumeco
I didnt say you ARE a supporter, I said: you, as well as everyone else, HAVE THE RIGHT to be (a supporter) - the choice is yours

You also said:
The bottom line is they "couldn't" give a shit, and don't "pretend" they do

I said:
has every RIGHT TO IGNORE or REJECT comments or suggestions

You
conform to everyone elses idea of artistry

I
has every RIGHT TO POST ANYTHING (s)he wants

The validity and merit of DUAs artistry (or lack thereof) is not the issue here. Basically we are in aggreement except the issue is, and I repeat, the issue is DUAa anti-social, vulgar and threatening response to those comments and suggestions which are not the highest praise or do not suit DUAs artistry

I guess the bottom line is they DO give a shit, and just pretend they dont.

Message edited on: 11/21/2005 12:25

@draculaz
"would you like an interview, len?"

Well, I don't come cheap man :-D Besides, I'm sure there's plenty of others who would jump at the chance to appear in a WoB exclusive!

@Khai
"which is it? giving a shit or trolling?"

Trolling - lol It wasn't me who started this thread, was it?

@RobertJ
This thread was "locking" material as soon as it was posted.

@guslaw
"I didnt say you ARE a supporter"
QUOTE:"pumeco and all other supporters of DUAs art"

Errr...OK...but like I said, 'bout not giving a shit ;-)

Len.

The wait can be horrific, but the outcome can be worse - pumeco 2006

yep - sorry. Should have/meant to say "pumeco and _ all supporters of..." - without the "other" W.

My answer is take care, and enjoy your Bryce - I do :-)

Len.

The wait can be horrific, but the outcome can be worse - pumeco 2006

pumeco, wouldn't you rather continue this in rendergods? i really want to talk to you. now would be a wonderful idea. thanks, drac (last time i'm asking you)

@Khai
Ah, hello again.
Look I might not be a prince, but I think "Troll" is a little extreme ;-)

@draculaz
Errr...nope!

Len.
(Last time I'm telling you)

The wait can be horrific, but the outcome can be worse - pumeco 2006

Errr...yeah why not - I'll play. You're very friendly Khai, you should post here more often you know :-)

Hey, wanna see the latest PRO-RENDER sample. I've finally run-off an "official" Version 1 sample and it's as smooth as a, well... ya know - it's SMOOTH!

Len.
(Uses automatic reflection as well)

The wait can be horrific, but the outcome can be worse - pumeco 2006

No reply? Oh I see, you want to see it like yesterday, but you just didn't want to be too forward right? OK here it is ;-) GURU STUFF: NO LIGHT DOMES 1 Light NO LIGHT DOMES 256 RPP NO LIGHT DOMES Synchronised and balanced GI. NO LIGHT DOMES pumeco product = quality You want my babies - right?

The wait can be horrific, but the outcome can be worse - pumeco 2006

Me not troll "ME PUMECO"

The wait can be horrific, but the outcome can be worse - pumeco 2006

All this time, NO LIGHT DOMES All this talk, NO LIGHT DOMES All this constant bickering, NO LIGHT DOMES Still no Gallery, NO LIGHT DOMES Still no Proof, I'LL TAKE LIGHT DOMES.......

OK guys...OK...wireframe proof coming up - hang on...

The wait can be horrific, but the outcome can be worse - pumeco 2006

Wireframe :-) Rendertime was 3hours 8minutes 41seconds (not bad for that amount of smoothness AND accuracy). BTW go ahead, stick it in Photoshop and play with the automatic levels/contrast etc to see how well it stands up to extreme manipulation of gamma etc. Blow it up a bit as well, enlarge it at least 2X and check-out the bleed. Beautiful - isn't it? Len.

The wait can be horrific, but the outcome can be worse - pumeco 2006

BTW, save us a bit of pie ;-) Len. (Off to grab a microwave burger)

The wait can be horrific, but the outcome can be worse - pumeco 2006

that took 3 hours? sorry dude, but it's really not worth it just for some ambience levels. no one is idiotic enough to have that high of settings for a render in bryce. you made that in 3 hours because there's very little in the scene. try your famous pro-render on a complex scene, with textures that are more than grayscale or whatever. show some bump, some reflectivity and whatever else. i know you're never going to show the material settings, a screenshot of bryce with the scene in it, etc. but i'm just saying. if you want to put this to rest once and for all, you'd better actually come with more than hot air and a scene at max rpp and true ambience. thanks, drac

Wow...I'm always learning in this forum, its great! ;)

Smile, your dead a long time :)

I agree there are scenes I render with over 10 million polygons (half a million imprted ones) and huge imported texture maps. How will it stack up then. It will never get done.

The wit of a misplaced ex-patriot.
I cheated on my metaphysics exam by looking into the soul of the person next to me.

All of this bickering is partly what made me leave this forum, unfortunately some things never change. 8)

Pumeco, I am curious as to what benefit your 'product' would bring to my renders. Three hours to render a tiny, textureless scene? Seems a bit steep, dude. I do the occasional bit of paid 3D work, and am often under time contraints. If using your setup meant that my render would take twice as long....? Jay

This is amazing! Started out discussing very serious issue & the thread degernerates into a 'squabble' over some technique taking 3 hours-HELL, I've made landscapes took 9+ hours; ironicfally, I recall, DUA, who's behaviors instigated this thread, whining in one of her samesamesame posts that it was 1st one took more than 1 hour. No wonderr one my viewers refers to the Bryce Forum as (comment under (Incomming in my gallery) 'crap city' ;-D

I've seen threads at this site full of compassion for those in this world hurting. Why same folks not realizing hurt is being dished out, agreed to, responded to, at this same site. My favorite site is ".. gallery" second most favorite is "... forum" This is a place where many have been referred to for guidance and help. Is this thread (and others like it) helping or hurting? No, I'm not living in a rainbow land and I will fight for the freedom of all to have their opinions and speach, but with that freedom comes responsibility. The good book says the "tongue is a two edged sword" It cuts coming and going. That sword is flailing wildly resently. Look inward, folks, my friends, fellow artist of varying abilities. I have commented on many pics in gallery. Most comments are favorable (for encouragement) but I don't vote "excellent" unless I think it is so. I appreciate the comments I do receive and I like flattery as well as the next person but I try(?) to do something different each time, maybe not better, but different.

Fucking brilliant marketing plan.

freewriters, Worlds of Bryce, #Rendergods. You started these to give people a resource, a place to grow and expand their talents and ability. Then you lash out violently and repeatedly, almost obsessively, at those you deem unwanted. Congrats on her getting banned for three days. I'm sure you didn't know that before you posted this of course.

No. You weren't being diplomatic. It's a thinly veiled, very public malicious jab, at someone who has, despite violating the TOS in PM, kept the whole series of events private.

Yes. Fairly early in the whole thing, I stated my opinion on her art. I've stated my opinion on a lot of art, and artists, and news articles, and dinner choices. All in the presence of friends, who may or may not have shared those opinions, but accepted them as being mine.

What you are doing here is trying to rally a lynch mob against some one who took no offensive action until you pressed it to her. Her pictures filled the Hot20 because of the apathy of the users who couldn't be bothered to view the gallery and vote, not because of any devious plot by her.

This is going to encourage people to visit rendergods? This is the price of your contribution to the Bryce community, the forced attrition of your unwanteds?
Who do we lynch next? This shit's become boring.

Message edited on: 11/22/2005 21:41

Frankly I see this thread as a personal attack made against the unamed artist who was indeed "Named" when you linked to his/her work. It shouldn't just be locked it should be deleted in it's entirety. Period. It Violates the TOS as a personal attack on the artist in question's right to live life the way he/she chooses and post their art the way they choose to post it.

Message edited on: 11/22/2005 22:03

First of all the intention was never a personal attack. Start reading things as they are, not how they look to you.

Seccond the ban of DUA was above everything else because she herself violated the TOS in the first place, making personal attacks (not to me, but one of her minions decided to lash out to me) and because of posting copyrighted materials, now you can claim what you want , but that was her own doing, not ours.

And third, there is alway Len to derail any discussion what could have made a difference on how we see things. Oh and if you think this as a personal attack on someone, it includes people like drawbridge, drawbridge and personal attacks? come on, come with something that is real.

Message edited on: 11/22/2005 23:29

Robert van der Veeke Basugasubasubasu Basugasubakuhaku Gasubakuhakuhaku!! "Better is the enemy of good enough." Dr. Mikoyan of the Mikoyan Gurevich Design Bureau.

I feel soemtimes it is a personal attack too. But you must realise that there are a great many of us that spend many hours working on our pictures and projects and we all hope that we can get in the hot 20 sometime it would be an honor to us. We spend our time honing our skills hoping that we can make an image worthy of such an honor. Most of us don't make it or rarely make it. Then there is someone who puts our art that most of us can put together with little effort on our part and we all can see how it is done there is no mystry. (ie how did you do that?) These simple pictures do not offend us we all have made simple pictures before. What is so offensive is that this artist regualrly dominates the hot 20 an honor most of us covet because we think it would be an award for our hard work. This artist makes things we could all do simply and easily in a few minutes of our time. This artist receives nothing but the most flowery praise. While we may toil over an image and someone will point out a small flaw and we will agree and try better next time. If we do the same to them they would be up in arms and release a tirade that would make a sailor cover his ears. If they were among the striving who occupy most of the galleries they would never be under any sort of criticism. I don't like attacking someone I just want to find a solution we can all work with. BTW Drac I'll do an interview.

The wit of a misplaced ex-patriot.
I cheated on my metaphysics exam by looking into the soul of the person next to me.

You know what? If someone's breaking TOS. You need to take it to admin. Period. This is a Mudslinging thread and that to me is a personal attack no matter how you "Intended" it to go Robert. That's how it turned out in the end and it's pretty damn pitiful if you ask me.

And it has been taken up with the Admins. And they found enough to issue a 3 day ban.

Still, we are allowed to discuss this here, if you think that we should not and that everything should be taken care of outside a public view and in private than you are mistaken.

So i am going to write this once more, if you regard this as a personal attack and see it as a violation of the TOS than take it up with the admins. I suggest you do it. But if this thread was a personal attack than Agent Smith or Zahn would have locked it days ago and issued warnings and bans accoordlingly.

Read the things as they are, not as how they look.

Message edited on: 11/23/2005 00:44

Robert van der Veeke Basugasubasubasu Basugasubakuhaku Gasubakuhakuhaku!! "Better is the enemy of good enough." Dr. Mikoyan of the Mikoyan Gurevich Design Bureau.

I read perfectly well and you can agree to disagree. Publically dragging this same damn hot 20 bullshit through the forum everytime someone get's their feelings hurt doesn't serve to further the community or my knowledge of how to make my Bryce images any better. Funny how yuo tell me to take it to Admin's when I'm not the one who dragged it all out in public in the first place. Hypocrite!

Xenic and Miz, afaik the DUA was TOTALLY FOR taking things to the forum instead of commenting on her pics.

And I repeat RobertJ's words, the Admins interfered, it was not us, the witch-burning mob that banned her :/ Not a word of offence has come before she started to be unpleasant. If I (I can dream, can't I?) find myself residing in Poser Hot20 one day and getting heaps of comments telling me that I can do better, that I can develop, I can improve, I'd not say that the Hot20 police squad is out to get me. I'd say thank you for spending your time thinking about my works, spending your time commenting on them, thinking about how I can develop further. I wouldn't behave as if Hot20 belongs to me and the commenting folk is jealous.

"What you are doing here is trying to rally a lynch mob against some one who took no offensive action until you pressed it to her"

We are NOT a lynch mob, xenic, and it is very upsetting to hear that from you because it shows that you think of us as some brainless drac followers.

The only thing that upsets me in Drac's behaviour is that he creates a very negative image for the Rendergods and W0B in general. I know that he started this thread as an individual though, not as the Father Founder, but still.

You know what? Until this thread I'd never heard of DUA nor seen her images because I'm not a Hot-20 follower and unless something jumps out at me from a Thumbnail I don't even click on an image let alone comment on it. While the image linked to in the first message here wasn't anything spectacular, IMHO, The Poetry attached was worth the read. Art is many things to many people. What I find offensive, since Drac wants to list offenses in his post, is people who mudsling over something as ephemeral as art. DUA may not be a spectatular artist and since I don't follow the Hot-20 I have no clue how often she's been there. If she has fans. Well great for her. If that pisses Drac off because her imagry isn't up to his standards, tough shit! She touched people deeply enough to gather her following for whatever reason. Coming to the forums to Knock her down a Peg is petty and childish and very much makes Drac look infantile to this Bryce user. The fact that she doesn't want comments on her work that are derogatory or vindictive just makes her sound all the more human to me. I doubt she reads the forums for the reasons I do, which could be why she cares less about what's posted here than what's posted with her images.

Hot20 or not is not an issue here, at least for me it isn't. My personal issue here is being attacked for posting a comment that was in NO WAY negative or abusive. You cannot blame anyone for being taken into Hot20!! At best, you can blame yourselves for not voting for the images YOU want to see there. @Mizrael: I did take it to the admins, and it was dealt with. @Xenic: This has been taken to the forum because the Unnamed Artist demanded it. My personal issue here is what was already said in post #7, #10 and ESPECIALLY post #19. Anyway.. from now on I will think twice before I comment on images by artists that are personal strangers to me, or on images that I don't find jaw-dropping fantastic. I am aware that I'm a mediocre artist at best, and never had the intention to step on anyone's toes.

Come join the Rendergods!

@ek-art You're not the one who started a thread of mudslinging which is what has my skirt in a knot. And I had no idea he was told to bring it here by the artist til it was mentioned in post 53 by BlueEyes.

Sigh Just report it to the admins if you see this (this thread and the comments that are "derogatory or vindictive") as a personal attack on DUA. I am sure that it gave her the right to respond in such a manner that the Admins took action and banned her for three days. I am still saying, if this thread was a personal attack, than it would have been locked, as matter of fact it would have been locked within hours after the thread was started at the 20th of november, it is now the 23rd and it is still open for you today, that does say something i guess.

Robert van der Veeke Basugasubasubasu Basugasubakuhaku Gasubakuhakuhaku!! "Better is the enemy of good enough." Dr. Mikoyan of the Mikoyan Gurevich Design Bureau.

@Mizrael Well said - and stick to your opinion, no matter how many diss what you say, you're SPOT ON! @xenic101 As you're a friend of draculaz, either you're taking the piss, or you MEANT what you said. Either way - well said! Did I step into the wrong forum or something, or are people intelligent enough to see the REAL reason for this thread (as I pointed out in post 22), and then (it's seems) by xenic' in post 46. HELLO PEOPLE - THERE WAS NO NEED FOR THIS THREAD - WAKE-UP! Where there are sheep - there will always be a wolf. @Khai Your posts seem to have vaporised! Len. (Not a sheep)

The wait can be horrific, but the outcome can be worse - pumeco 2006

I was going to post the true here but if you see the true you will not beleive it A 3 day ban no way try a 7 day ban. and I ask her many times to come in the forum to see what they saying about her but she would not come. And that been over a year ago. So I donot beleive she was comeing to the forum as some of you say. Some one not tell the true here. I got nothing agaist anyone but when the true is not say I wonder what that person is up to? Most likely no good. like pumeco say "No need for a thread like this. just get along with everyone. She deleted the link you sent her draculaz that all I know about this. sound like mudslinging and trues that is not there

what you see is not what you know; it in your face

You know why nobody ever heard of this DUA? Because s/he used to go by SkyBlueHope and has been banned from practically every site for "La Femme Nikita" copyright violations. I banned her/him from the 3DCommune a couple years ago. Tom

“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”