Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Personally, for a male figure I would invest in ApolloMaximus :)

Good point, PapaBlue! ApMax is a great figure, and comes with a number of morphs, it's texture, and poses. He also comes with a body suit, and I know I've done a number of freebies for him. Isn't the sale still on at rDNA? ApMax is still going for a little less than $50, and he comes with all that stuff.

I'm in favour of James & Jessi. I still think James is the best looking poser male around. The advantages of using J&J over M3&V3 are quite a lot as far as I'm concerned. 1. M3&V3 are resource hogs. J&J come with a low res and high res version making it easy to create foreground and background figures in one scene. Do the same with M3&V3 and expect slowness and crashes. 2. J&J come with a complete library of ready to use stuff. A good selection of clothes & shoes, hair, expressions, lot's of poses. M3&V3 need a lot of investment. 3. J&J just render great out of the box, M3&V3 don't, imo. The need a lot of tweaking and postwork to look good. 4. Personally I never liked M3&V3, I'm glad J&J are around now so I don't have to use M3&V3 anymore. I haven't used them for over 6 months now, while using J&J frequently. 5. J&J pose much more natural then M3&V3 do. 6. J&J belnd in with the scene, while M3&V3 often look rendered seperate from the scene, even if they have been rendered in the scene itself. The picture is for my latests comic, using James as main figure. It just takes to much time to get M3 in such extreme poses and blend in well with the rest of the scene.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

pdxjims - i think you're too focussed on the guys ;). jessi's body morphs have been available from rdna since april of this year. Ultimate Body Morphs For Jessi P6 the plus side to the support issue: Jessi, James, and Apollo Maximus are all supported by Philc's Wardrobe Wizard, so you could download the free m3 and v3 and convert their clothing. right now, Vittorio isn't, but that might change in the future. i'd also say, if you're going to go with the unimesh crew, aiko wins my vote for the females. she (and laura) have (by far) the best shoulders, the second most realistic proportions (a close second to steph petite, who just isn't actually built petite imho - more like a shorter, starved victoria), and a lot of people have done interesting things with her realistic head morph. all the unimesh crew and apollo have capsces' morph sets. apollo's is on sale with him, so the combo of him and cole (capcses morphs) is only about $58. miki and koji are also pretty nice - miki a bit more so than koji. while miki's whole body is a realistic asian female (again, imho), koji's body is basically the same as james'. i hope e-frontier doesn't take their comparative populalrity as "guys just don't sell," cause i would have bought koji in a heartbeat if they had actually made him more than a really gorgeous new face for james (with accessories). james' body is ok, don't get me wrong, but i really was hoping more for a true counterpart to miki. miki and koji's expressions are spectacular, so if you're looking for portrait material, they're probably a good investment.

OK. I admit it. I may be a little focused on the guys... ...you know... well, you think I might ...uh... Nah... ;) You're right about everything cobaltdream.

Yanno, I was playing with Apollo Maximus on a friends machine, mainly because I thought about buying him (And she already had him). I'm glad I did. He's great. No really, he is. But he's not for me. I like hard, slim faces on males and AM just doesn't do it for me. At all. I still think he is a fat-faced figure. Don't like the face at all. Period. Sorry, I prefer M3's or David's face to AM. AM is just "Not my type"

Silke

To me the ultimate male figure remains Mike2*(pictured here)* has has free options to enlarge his hands to get rid of that ***"Dainty hand"*** look that plagues all poser males IMHO. and his physique also is far Superior to M3 as M3 shoulders Look like pulled taffy and his so called muscle morphs are a cruel joke at best ;-) As for Apollo max I Agree the base figure has a puffy smooth faced appearance so i can only reccomend him along with the "morpheus maximus" package also sold over at RDNA and Apollo,like Mike2, Does **NOT** use the ponderous **INJ/REM/CHAN/VIS/DELTA** BULLSH*T of the DAZ unimess clones that require the presence of 800+support files to have a fully functional figure.

Wolf, she had that Morpheus thing on her AM figure and after a full day of messing with his face... I was just sick of it. I didn't get a single - and I really mean not even ONE - face morph that I liked out of him. Fatface can go hang, IMO. I like his body much much better than that of the milfigures but I loathe that face with or without morphs so I will never buy him either. I'm sorry if that offends the AM lovers out there, but he's simply not my type. Not something I want to look at. And Wolf... I often use M2 for stuff. He's much lighter than M3 when it comes to rendering, and I like his shoulders better too. Nice render above :)

Silke

Attached Link: http://www.contentparadise.com/us/user/product.php?productid=13695&cat=1325&page=2

I disagree that AM is limited in the face department. Check out the LQ morphs at CP. This package is for AM without Morpheus Maximus although I highly suggest those morphs as well. As much as I like M2, AM bends much better.

And Capcses morphs for Ap Max really go a long way in the face department. Her Cole for Apollo Maximus is amazing.

Yeah PapaBlueMarlin.... Hi! FatFACE! I'm not saying he's limited - I'm saying he's fat :P

Silke

Silke... I'm working on a face to show you. I'd have it done, but my beloved other half has started Christmas decorating. My office is in the living room, and right now my desk is piled with ornaments and my chair is covered in garland. The problem with Ap Max's face is that his chin/jowl area is fuller than the Daz figures. And his eyes are smaller. I'm taking David's head and working the morphs so Ap Max's has less jaw and bigger eyes.

LOL... his face is certainly better than the girly face M3 has.

i understand both of your statements about apollo. his morphs are good, but other than the all out monster mash ones, they all look too smooth and puffy for me. no offense meant, but all those lq morphs look basically the same to me (pretty much like most face sets for the daz crew). cole is better, but capsces (whose morph sets i adore) tends toward rounded, toony morphs, not chiseled, defined ones. apollo is quality, no doubt, and i'm certainly not going to get into the "he's not worth the full price" schtick so many seem to want to get into, but he's got less detail in his face, joints and body overall than m2. even wolf's arnold for apollo has extreme but not chiselled cheekbones, giving lie to the mesh underneath. so far, no add-on has given him much detail (except for monster mash), and i don't think anything can be done for his knees, wrists and elbows except entirely resculpting them (the join of thigh to knee, for instance, is just really off if you see a comparison). for me, it's not very useful to bend better if the joints still don't look realistic. that's just my opinion. i'm very happy that other people feel differently about him. vive la difference. people are doing amazing stuff with him. if you want to see the range he's capable of, check out the apollo maximus gallery at runtime dna. also, see lobo75's guapo both here and at poser pro's- very realistic (though still rather smooth faced). as for the unimesh support file issue, yeah, i guess it's realy kind of a pain. i'd certainly rather daz have cut back on some of their "i can do the same thing in less than a minute" poses like giving figures a catsuit mat. but morphs? you can just inject them all, save the character, and then delete the poses for injecting them. right now, i'm personally more interested in what nerd3d has been saying about the injections that don't need annoying empty channels and load quicker. do i think users should have gotten a choice? yeah. just like people could buy a high-res tera yuki that looked the same as the lo-res version with smoothing on (she was released as p6 only). i don't think daz should have just made the decision, "oh, we know you'll want to conserve poser memory in every render, so let's clutter your pose folder (which, if memory serves, does have a file limit), and make sure they're all first by adding leading !s." especially the newer ones, which have fewer morphs in their morph packs. as for hands - wolf, is that freebie for m2's hands anywhere on the web still? i haven't seen it or any replacement and his hands are way too small. i've looked for it and haven't been able to find it (even though spubba does still have freebies up). i'd be interested in using it or any other freebie that scales m2 (and v2's and s1's) hands. a lot of a figure's size can be determined by the relative size of body parts to head and hands. a lot of the "unimess" crew however, do have built in hand scaling in their bases.

Actually my M2 figure is based on the free spubba troll CR2 unfortunately it is no longer in poser freestuff where I found it. I tend to agree about apollo's "Smooth" look which is why i never render him Undressed But i use M2 for my more ethnic/athletic figures and i wanted a very different figure for my caucasion males so his face with morpheus max and cole is different enough for me. and I have so much aversion to the DAZ injection system that i supported apollo becuase he does NOT requires all that Additional bloatware but as you say Choice is nice ;-)

Silke, I understand what you're saying. I feel the same way. I do have Apollo and Cole morph. There are so many great things about Apollo, (easy to use, light on the system, manly face morphs, best posing ablity of all the male figures) but his default look holds him back, imho. He was designed to have weight. Unimesh Males start skinny and then you add bulk (some do this better than others like Hiro and David, and not M3), but Apollo works in reverse. He starts with mass and you have to sculpt him down. It hard to slim him down. It's much easier to bulk him up. I may have to take a stab at making a custom morph that gives him more of a "bone structure," like one would see in a male model, or a bishie. I haven't tried reshaping AM yet, so I don't know what can and can't be done with his polygons. bB

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=2326382

cobaltdream do you have a link about Nerd's inj system?I haven't heard this before... As for Hands it is easy to make them any size you want using propagatingScale this is what I've made with Domus hands & feet as you see on the image The link is a thread about it

:^)

lemme see if i can find it. it's not his new system, it's what's built into p6 and i think p5. he's just one of those people who's on the forefront of researching and figuring out what the software can do. hmmmm, maybe "just" isn't the word i'm looking for. more like, "one of those people without whom i'd be throwing my computer out of the window in frustration or not bothering with the !?$! program at all." and thank you so much for the link!

If it the pmd thing there is a tutorial on his site but it is P6 only :^(
Unless it is something new!

yep, the pmd thing. i just found out about it. that makes sense that it's p6 only.

Apollo's default shape and face is an amalgam of all his morphs. It is the middle between fat and emaciated. This allows all the morphs to work so well together. It is a starting point. I did it to address the comments that too many figures are too specific and you can't get rid of their default look. Apollo doesn't have any more bulk morphs than skinny. Anything that makes a feature bigger will also make it smaller and vice versa. This is a pic with only his default morphs, not cole, morpheus, or anything else. Regarding knees, elbows, etc. People have to choose between cut joints that spin into jagged pinwheels or smoother joints than bend smoother. Just the way it works. When you rotate cuts and creases you get arched cuts and creases. Polygons skin doesn't shift or smooth over bones. I wish threads wouldn't always end with "Why I don't like Apollo". Most customer don't read the forums but the merchants do. I wish I could express the impact it has. But if that is the way it is so be it. I believe people are honest in their feelings. He's as good as I could make him. It is hard enough to make a "non-Daz" figure catch on. Merchants don't seem interested and his fans are too few. Sadly I must admit I Apollo will be my one and only independant human figure. In fairness, Apollo did offer more than any other one figure ever made. He remains the most versatile/flexible figure out of the box, both child to adult. Best UV mapped and most innovative addressing desires of so many posts over the years. Sadly it isn't enough. Thing I wasn't prepared for is that he actually seems to offend the very people I made him for. Or I do. Whatever. But that is just how business works sometimes. Just supply and demand and all that stuff. lol Since the mil people are perfered, there really isn't need for others. In the end I am sure Apollo's features will appear on them at some point by either maker or broker anyway. I already know any copyright problem would be shot down and snuffed instantly in the forums and I'd be left to handle it alone. At least it can be said he was good enough to make daz lower their prices and basically giving away their male line to snuff him. Good strategy. Didn't see that coming. Either way I'll still happily support him. hehe. They warez people will be glad for that. :)

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

For Apollo I believe it is far too soon to say something like that!

It takes time people "digest" something new and apollo has offered many new thing.

The fact that many people already have him on their Runtime makes me sure that when they will be bored by mil 3 people they will play with him! And even if they don't have any add ons they will have enough to make many thing since he comes with a suit and many others...

I had Natalia for a long time but started using her only after I couldn't see my V2 anymore! And since none made free stuff for her,I started doing!

Something else is that with all those feedback you have from people (good or bad) you already know what to improve on Apollo 2!!!

:^)

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Anton, I would hate to see you give up on something you really enjoy because of comments in the forums. For every vocal critic, there are ten silent admirers :)

:) Thanks Jeremy. I wouldn't never give up because of forums. People are entitled to their opinions, regardless of how I or anyone else may feel about them.

It is just basic economics. There isn't enough interest, for whatever reasons, to warrant the time and resources to do another similar figure.

I haven't given up. I will still support Apollo and other venues. I just won't be doing Venus.

Message edited on: 11/27/2005 12:51

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

oh, anton. many threads are "why i think apollo is the best new thing since ." i was just looking up something on displacement (i think that was it - i've been trying to find a few old threads for info), and came across a "best product of 2005" thread in which apollo's place was being debated. considering how many utilities (and even how many figures) came out this year, that's pretty big in my opinion. i, personally, have never found apollo offensive. i've even tried to mention several times that now is the time to get him and his add-ons. i also have tried to suggest that people form their own opinions by seeking out images of him. i think your reaction to criticisms has at times been a bit more emotional than i would expect, seeing how other merchants of your caliber and level react to criticisms and knowing how popular you and your work is, but never offensive. you get so much praise and actual adulation within the community, i never would have expected you to say how the community is so much worse for just for having some negative things to say about your work. not everyone is going to like him. just like every other product out there will be some who don't chose him and say why. since apollo has come out, v3 standard has had at least as many criticisms. m3 was never well received, to judge by criticisms in the forums. that isn't to say that most don't use him, or that he isn't the defacto standard. if daz stopped making humans, even males, due to complaints, they'd have stopped at m2. i never thought you didn't have a reason for execute his joints the way you did. they're just not to my taste. lots of people like them. heck, i think wyrmmaster's gi-normous floatation devices on the fronts females are just plain silly (not to mention really boring after a while), and look at his popularity. me, i prefer posermatic's realism to wyrmmaster's fantasy, but that's just me. there's more than room enough for many merchants of different styles. i don't think i've ever gone out of my way suggest people look into m3 more when i say i think david has better muscularity and joints. seriously, i've had more good things to say about apollo than any other product i didn't want to buy. i believe i've even said- multiple times- how revolutionary his joints are just based on other people's renders and statements. conversely, i've seen several people dismiss sixus1 products of various ilks, and i've seen them do nothing but increase their product line. if you're basing this on pure numbers (money in the bank), then i'm not privy and i can't say about "worth it." i can say a female will sell a hell of a lot better than a male. it's true, the market on females is kinda glutted right now. we have (including toons but not including v3 - who in my opinion isn't free) at least 12 free females. i will say this - i didn't think that daz was deliberately trying to kill apollo. no sarcasm intended- maybe i'm just a bit naive about this. i certainly have seen them go out of their way to kill competition before. but i really thought they were basing their model on sixus1 (and somewhat in response to them)- make more money on add-ons because people do have the character. i know that the big problem with daz is how many sales they have. i've never paid full price for a daz original. and now they seem to be giving away products that have passed their popularity peak. after stephanie petite (who was a disappointment), i swore i wouldn't invest any more in what were basically recycled characters, but each time, the prices were lower and the bundles were bigger. and the figures just enough better to buy. all of this is to say- i recognize making another female would have some risk involved. and with daz as the standard, it might be hard to set the kind of price you feel would be worth it. but that said... lots of people are dissatisfied with v3. i can't say anything about what "most" people want to be better about her (except maybe a larger chest and real genitalia ;D). i can say, people have been anticipating venus for a while. to judge from "works in progress", you might have even more competition at release time than you do now, but they also have you as competition. and you've got one of the best reputations in the community. some people pursue realism with v3, but many don't. more people render unclothed females than unclothed males, so as long as she had a lot of textures, i'm sure she'd be fine. most people like their females air-brushed and smooth- much fewer like rugged women than rugged men. give her multiple high-heel morphs to go with that chest and hip thing i mentioned, and you'll be a millionaire by within a year (kidding, kidding). seriously though, there's a lot of niche's you could fill if you wanted. but please, don't do it if every time someone says, "i don't like venus and here's why," it wounds you deeply and personally. i can say, without a doubt, some people won't like her. some people will have problems with her. some people will want her to be something she isn't. but i bet many more won't.

Message edited on: 11/27/2005 15:41

"It is just basic economics. There isn't enough interest, for whatever reasons, to warrant the time and resources to do another similar figure." I'm very suprised by this statement.... I thought there was a lot of interest in Apollo. To me it seemed like many people jumped on the bandwagon and bought him.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

A lot have people have bought him. But I think with so many conversion type things out there, new content is taking a hit. I'm still watching things. It's hard to explain, but for all the time they take, figures only cover their own costs. You make your living on the support stuff. There is interest, of course, but figures need bery broad merchaant interest to have a healthy and long life. I'm just not sure Apollo has enough long term merchnat support to justify Venus. You really need LOTS of deifferent merchants involved. Therein lies the delema. I think they got scared off. Or are just commited to other figures. Like I said, I am happy to support Apollo, but I can't ever fill the lists of what people want myself. If I only had more arms. lol cobaltdream, I hear ya and I agree. It isn't the individual posts I look at but rather the trend. I suppose it is like looking out the window to check the weather, but hey you have to go by something. If Apollo and his merchantbase is meant to grow and thrive it will. If not it won't and the world goes on. Just polygons afterall. But I am DNA are very commited to APollo. He'll be well taken care of. It just might take longer than with other figures. :)

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

I and RDNA..not I am DNA. BTW: They are awesome. As have been many people abroad. You just can't ever have enough, not with all the figures running around these days.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

I didn't say Apollo wasn't a good figure. He IS. A friend of mine has him and she won't use anything else. She loves the way he looks. He's just not my type lol. At all. I can't help that, I can't get over that either. I sat on her computer for hours and hours while she was trying to convince me that I really like him. It just didn't happen. The more I rendered the more I was put off by his face. I think the rest of him is great, I just don't like his face. And since that's the prominent feature (I don't seem to render headless people for some odd reason!) I won't go there. She has those morphs (Morpheus at least, dunno which others there are) and I still never got anything out of his face that I liked. (she loved the renders lol) He's just too jowly for my taste. If you like to render butch - I'd highly recommend him. If you like to render skinny elves... he might not be so perfect.

Silke

Forgot to add: I think it takes time to get used to Apollo and the way he works. When I got the chance to sit down and fiddle my first question was 'Uh... how does all this work?' and I got a lesson in 'Twiddle this and twiddle that' sorta. Like I said, I don't have him. I've only played around on a friends computer. That's not enough time to really judge the character over and above of what I like. I wouldn't presume to tell anyone not to get him. He's not "Offensive" in the least. He's very well made and has many tricks up his sleeve. I echo Anton tho that I don't see much Apollo stuff around and for him to really take off, he needs stuff made for him. But then I don't really take much notice of what there is out there for him, so what do I know. :) But Anton - I hope I didn't give you the impression that I find Apollo offensive. That's just not the case. In many ways he's a lot better put together than the Daz figures are.

Silke

Okay let's run down the list. :) Just look from my side a moment. Just for a sec. He is too smooth. He isn't defined enough to be muscled He is to muscled to be skinny He doesn't have enough morphs He is too expensive His face is ugly He doesn't have enough stuff His joints aren't cut enough He has no back muscles He is too expensive He Doesn't have enough polygons His penis is too small Any posts with "I like Apollo but...." Now imagine you are a noob or merchant trying to decide. Do a search for Apollo here if you have a free hour and read. just read. Search for APollo at poserPros or anywhere aside from DNA and ConetentParadise. There is a lot of good yes, but wowsers, it is a hard racket. It's formidable. lol. I just poking fun but imaging it from the maker's side, competing with giveaway David and a the fact that 80% of eveyone's store is dependant on Mil Sales staying dominant. grin See what I mean. Come'on. You have to admit, people have held Apollo to standards they don't even hold to any other figure available. I am sorry. I know I made him and am biased but he is a work of cr2 art. Like buttah. I am a single guy doing this full time. Have some mercy. lol

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

His penis is too small? For... what? No wait don't answer that!! I'm female and I can tell you that a man's best side is... his backside. Just... turn round. There. Much nicer view! Penis too small... tsk... who cares what size it is. It's what you can do with it that counts! I know what you mean tho Anton :) If we started on M3, first on my list would be: You call that rubbery glob at the top of his arms SHOULDERS? His arms go up WAY too high on the body (on V3 too) Those are the two that spring to mind right away. I'm forever tweaking shoulders on M3. There's some really weird stuff going on under his chin, too.

Silke

It is not new that people here yell only the bad things and never admit the good!!!

I would never compare Apollo with any DAZ thing! He is an inependant figure far from anything till we've seen till now!It is obvious find him strange at first!

For me, only his UVS is a lesson for figure creation! PERFECT!!!

I don't beleive any other non DAZ figure eeeever took so much attention!!!, except the scare bears maybee:^)

This is a fact and I'm sure it will be seen on the near future. It is very nice that you support him so much and that't what a creator should do!

Beeing some years in this forum I've seen many good figures die without support not even from their creators.

Also it is a pity that people no longer create free stuff except to advertise their stores.This is something that keeps alternative figures behind too.
No good free textures any more! V2 was the last figure having great free textures, now everyones sells his cr*py texture on the store...

Attached Link: http://www.runtimedna.com/mod/ophoto/index.php?photoid=899

*giggles* CHeck out this great and totally surreal image by Atomica.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

quote: . . . but for all the time they take, figures only cover their own costs. You make your living on the support stuff. ah. that makes sense. which explains why sixus1 is still in business and why they did choose the route of giving away base figures. and that would mean WW and CC and Tailor might make things more difficult instead of less. i wish i could say, "making venus would be a sure bet." hmmmm. trying to think mercenary.... well, here's a good bet at least: sell a base that meets your standards (i'm sure that will meet most community standards), but looks a bit younger than v3 in default. even include some basic morphs, and make her "anatomically correct". low-ball her price (i'd say $30 to $40 is the community comfort limit, but what do i know). then sell 3 "real breast packs" as addons- breasts at different sizes and shapes, unclothed motion morphs, and breasts deformation morphs (pushing up out of corsets, pushing through fingers, etc.). then make a "real girl" hip morph pack for her that costs twice as much as each breast pack. and finally, do a "modern goddess" line: 1 runway model, 1 pinup girl, 1 fantasy art girl, 1 hip-hop video girl, etc., each with accompanying 2 to 3 piece clothing set and texture. if you can, have posermatic and blackhearted each do a character for her. i'm betting she'd sell like hotcakes (evil grin). now mind you, this isn't actually what i'm interested in. i'd prefer she gain weight as well as apollo, have great ethnicity morphs, and basically be as real as possible. but, as i've stated, my opinion and popular opinion often run counter to each other. and, um, no, i don't hold apollo to higher standards. if he had the definition and detail of any of the version 2 crew, i would have gotten him. period. and i'd say half of the complaints in your list basically come down to that- not enough detail, in bones or muscles, and no hard angles. penis too small???? yeah, as a woman, i'd have to say, there's no guy at regular temp and flacid that looks very, um, imposing or impressive. well, at least, i've never seen him. i'd say apollo's kinda large if that's his totally non-aroused, regular state. as for ugly, i don't believe i've seen that before. the last thing i'd say apollo is is ugly. again, i'd say since apollo has emerged there has been at least as much criticism of v3. too tall, too big, pin head, gumby arms, too fat, bubble butt, shapeless, too skinny, not real enough, can't do ethnic morphs, unnatural expressions, etc. m3, well, i've heard people say they use him but no real advocates for him. and his complaints seem to get reiterated less just because they're so obvious. tons of people have had good things to say about apollo, and loudly. pitklad- there are tons of free unimesh textures. mainly for v3, but they're out there. vali, a merchant has a few in freestuff. neomea has several, as does (or did) ecstasy (i found an archive of his stuff the other day but haven't been able to re-find it since). and that's just off the top of my head. not too many for the guys, admittedly.

ecstasy's textures are great but most of them are for V2 I believe I have them all but also don't have the link(I'll send it to you if I find it!)

There are many many free tetxures for V3 of course but not great free textures! Low quality free textures sure!
I feel that posette has more great free textures than V3!
The quality of the store here is droped and free stuff follow that fact!

Texture variation is a great thing for a figure and most people are bored even to change the base color!Pure James always look the same!

here's the following ecstasy textures i have for v3: lusyydia, antimony, blue geisha, vamps, red hatia, immigrant, innuendo, neon geisha, red geisha, sekusu and white wolf. somehow i'm missing his tattoo/rocker set. i dunno, i'm pretty content with the best freebie textures for v3. i'd say v2 had more high quality ones, but i don't know about p4. other than the body morpher set, i'd say most p4 textures are comparatively mid-level. other than the vicky buster, most don't even get close. yeah, i really wish there were more male textures overall. james could really use a hand.

Ectasy's textures are (were) over on As Shanim's site. Might want to look there for them. :)

Silke

Anton, I'm only trying to help to start with, just so that you know before I type more. If the "expense" or perception of expensive is an issue, you could easily cut the pack down to offer entry-level pricing. I think he's not getting around as much because of the price tag - regardless of the amount of content being offered in that bundle (which I was glad to purchase myself). Why not offer an Apollo Base with a small price and then pack the other things into add-ons to get to the overall price point that you want to achieve with the full package? I'm not dissecting everything in the package but let's say you did Apollo BASE at $20 or something and had the 50% off offering going, that would be perceived as low cost at a total of $10. I know it's a headache to cut it all up, but I think it's one of those perception is reality situations on the bottom line.

Since the topic seems to have turned to an apollo discussion, I would like to say that I think it is far far far too early to discuss if apollo is a success or a failure. He hasnt even been out for a year yet. It takes a while for people to be comfortable with "new"toys. I have had poser6 since it came out, but I still do most of my development in Poserpro, just because I am familiar with it. The same will be true for figures as well. If you want the figure to grow in popularity, that will happen by steady support and growth. I have supported him since he came out, because we all know this market needs a variety of quality figures with different looks. I am sure with apollo that the complaints of the figure only having one looks will easily fade away over time as people become more familiar with how to use the figure. So taking complaints like that to heart is silly. Apollo can provide quite a number of looks and if anyone complains, that is more a reflection on that particular artists skill in using the figure and not a reflection of the figure itself. This is the same for the Micheals as well...many people are content with using them as they are out of the can...but others take time to make something unique out of them. Apollo will grow the same way. I think one thing that people miss with apollo is the female counterpart. If there was a dedicated counterpart, it will go a long way to ensure that Apollo is not a "flash in the pan" figure who will fade away. This will also bolster his support. Its a geometrical growth. I can appreciate the amount of work that goes into figure creation. But I think what has to be looked at seriously now is what it will take to make this series grow, and while clothing support is good, an additional cast would definatly make the series more solid and they will build a solid place in the community. Plus....apollo has had alot of support from some pretty big names in the community, so to say it is not supported well is a bit of an insult. For some of the bigger names to take a risk with a new figure, shows that there is no lack of interest. (my 2) Rawn Rawn

Part of the problem Apollo might have with support, is that RNDA is a closed store, and sells by invitation only. So if someone like myself does a product add on for him, I cannot sell at his "home" wher my sales numbers would be higher, but have to sell at Rendo, or Poser Pros. My sales numbers are always 1/10th or so for a figure, if it isn't at the figures "home" store. I've considered getting apollo a number of times, for possible morph expansion developement, but his high cost cuts into the profits for any possible add on products. Subtract that from a support product not at the home store, and I'll most likely end up with a shelf warmer, that was not worth producing. Also of note, is the fact that female figure's sales are much higher then male figures. If the number is like twice, wouldn't that still justify Venus developement?

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Oh.. forgot.. I can also use my sale's money for purchasing developemtn figures, but since I'm not a merchant at RNDA, obviosuly I cannot do that. I suspect many other merchants are in the same boat.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Attached Link: http://www.ramwolffsworld.com/3D_Directory/Apollo-BlondeGod_r.jpg

I upload an image, it's not posted for what ever reason so I will attempt to do this using the URL option. It was Apollo with no clothes but it's not like I had him doing anything other than walking! LOL I love Apollo but I love David and Hiro too. I don't care for M3, I like M2 just fine and the Freak comes in handy from time to time!! I would love to see Athena happen Anton! It is a known fact that the female's sell better than the male figures. So please don't dismiss the idea totally. Richard ;-)~

---Wolff On The Prowl---

I don't know if Anton is still checking in on this thread but on the off chance he is, I'd like to say that I've been holding off on making any more Poser related purchases in anticipation of paying for your female figure and support items for it. I'd gladly pay $50 or so for a female figure that looks and poses as good as Apollo seems to. I have not bought Apollo because I hardly ever use male figures, and I already purchased M3 and David along with support items a couple of years ago for the few times I do. If I didn't own them, I certainly would have purchased Apollo instead - and may still if for some reason I have need of a realistic looking/posing male figure. A female figure along those lines would be great as I am dissatisfied with just about every female figure that's out right now in one way or another. I really hope you'll reconsider and publish a female figure on Apollo's level - I'm guaranteeing you one sale right now and continuing purchases of support products for her as well. Unzipped

LOL @ Richard (Yes he does!)

Silke

Quote - M3 and V3 are free, so there's no cost in getting them. They're also much better supported than Don and Judy. To get them to work well though, you'll need to get the face and body morph packages at Daz too. Each package is about $30.

They also have a package that has the head and body morphs for both figures in it. I think it's $30.00.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I was actually waiting around for Venus. I just rarely use males. And well...ever since Aiko 3 & Hiro came out I've basically chucked V3 & M3 out the window. :P I'll probably brush the dust off of V3 & M3 from time to time. The more the merrier. ^^

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

While I would love to dive into Apollo, I cannot justify the cost. I know you do not wish to hear this, but you need to look realistically at the target audience. Even at 50% he is out of my price range. I've said it before, He's beautiful but I cannot afford him even with WW.

Yeah, I hope Anton is still peeking in here. I totally think you'd see many times more sales for a female figure period. :) Heck, Anton, I'd sign on to produce content for Venus from the get-go, given an advance copy.

V3 is now a bit more useful to me now that I have Eszter, the add on for V3 by DigiCalimero from Polymage.com. M3 I still don't care for but I do like M2 a bit but there is a limited amount of stuff for him or what is available is so expensive for what I consider (for some of it) lower quality compared to the stuff that M3 is getting made for him. His shoulders are very nice and his over all muscularity is nice too but his face is kinda strange in a few areas. Texture packs are OK but not as nice as M3's packs. Luckily I can use most of the texture packs for M3 on David and Hiro so it's not a total waste. Hence Apollo is the main man but he does need some further support from the merchants to bring up over all sales. Just wish that Anton was more for moving forward with Athena or Venus to give Apollo a 'mate'. I think that it's more balanced and will probably drive more to buy Apollo and his stuff. As much as I loved Aiko when Hiro came about I went crazy and bought up a bunch more stuff for Aiko afterwards and started using her more often because she had a counterpart finally. Richard ;-)~

---Wolff On The Prowl---

Im not really sure why people make so much of Apollo being fat and dumpy. Most of us dont like any figure in there default state, which is why we spend money on character/morph packs. Apollo is easy to make tall and skinny using his included morphs and ADS scaling and his face has enough morphs to get rid of the chubby look and as Poser and Daz both have magnets of one form or another its easy enough to make his face and body any shape desired. Attached imaged used Apollos included morphs for the body and face with one magnet to square his face, it only took a couple of minutes to turn him skinny and there are already add on morph packs that will do it for you in one click. I dont prefer one dress up dolly over another, they all have good and bad points but it doesnt take much to make them into something we find attractive or interesting to look at.

The Renderosity mods will have to forgive me this, but I do question the motive and timing behind this little announcement, plus question the little "biting the hand that feeds you" routine. Personal opinion mind you, but the Wardrobe wizard support is what garnered the support for this figure in the first place. Many of the people in this market are lower income and thus are not ABLE to shell out the $50 for a single figure, much less $100. Goes back to knowing your market.

ok, i'm going to post this here too: i'm the one who brought up wardrobe wizard. not anton. i interpretted:

It's hard to explain, but for all the time they take, figures only cover their own costs. You make your living on the support stuff. There is interest, of course, but figures need bery broad merchaant interest to have a healthy and long life. I'm just not sure Apollo has enough long term merchnat support to justify Venus. You really need LOTS of deifferent merchants involved. Therein lies the delema.

to mean that the conversion tools might then be a problem for him. i may have been wrong. anton's posts regarding apollo's wardrobe wizard support have been nothing but positive in the past.

Very true! Excited actually!! :-)

---Wolff On The Prowl---

I love Wardrobe Wizard. I advertise it on my site. I have never said otherwise. (natoli) :) I'll call PhilC to make sure we're good. I think the Daz thread on Venus is a perfect example why the current climate is hostile and unreceptive. That thread is an abomination.. I appreciate the words of reason from the few that actually base their comments on fact. Horrific, simply horrific.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

I have emailed Daz asking thier post be removed for vioating thier own TOS. It is my hope that speculative assumptions/statements made by others will not damage my business relationships with PhilC, other merchants, and other sites. I would urge some to post more resposibily and resist the urge to post speculation as fact for all to read. I am not refering to anyone in particular here, but would hope people might consider the impact their opinions have to those who often won't look any deeper to check for fact or context. I am deeply appreciative to PhilC, FaceOff, Renderosity, Poser Pros, all supporters, and most improtantly RDNA for their support of Apollo and my interests. Statements made by others suggesting lack of gratitude, anger, or malice, should be ignored and kept in the conext of the user making the post. It is my sincere wish that this dark side of the forums will eventually be addressed by thier hosts and that Daz will remove the very damaging thread containing very innappropriate personality assesments. I apologize if this particular post sounds cold. It isn't meant that way. But with over 2173 views of the Daz thread, and it's contents, the damage is likely devasting to any potential merchants I hoped to encourage. This statement may be reposted elsewhere, meaning Daz. Sincerely, Anton PS: Thanks for your vocal interest in Venus and APollo, of course. :) It is appreciated.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

IMO, these forums have to sides, a good one, means you get support and help and can discuss various items, and the bad one, you can post opinions without having some real knowledge behind. I think people who liked a new figure do what I did, spending some Dollars on it and I think, most of them are happy with it. The other ones, who don't own the figure, they are claiming an whatever they want, the price, the outlook,... I have to state, when V3 wasn't for free, I'm not sure if I would have purchased her. Same is valid for M3. I find that it becomes a common behaviour for a lot of people to think negative. That's not the way to make the future nice. If someone wants to criticise something, it should be done in a way that there are facts behind, and possibly also solutions. Who takes the part of those users that are simply satisfied with their purchase? For me it was a bad news when Anton stated that he will no longer plan to release the female counterpart to Apollo :((

Ulli

"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!"

"For me it was a bad news when Anton stated that he will no longer plan to release the female counterpart to Apollo :((" I think many people feel the same way, myself included. I didn't see so much damaging stuff in the daz thread, but more speculation as to why Anton thinks it is a failure, and what could have backfired, and what would improve the situation. Course I tend to skip over malicious stuff, because argueing with people in forums is counterproductive for all invloved.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

I can speak for myself without translators who find more colorful and creative words and recollections of my posts. People can speculate, or discuss my personality, in email not forums. But Daz is most definately not the place for it regardless. There is no reason why that thread can't be removed. none. Nor is there any purpose some of the personal jabs serve against my personality serve. None. I have to read new people saying "I have heard". Well why does noone silence the people spreading crap? Why? What posts are they talking about? Something half-remembered from 3 years ago? I don't care what time, country, forum, community, religion, or party you belong to. In no setting should a member be discussed, critiqued, and disected is such a utterly tasteless manner. I'm not going to discuss this anymore. If daz lets it sit forever for all to read, that says something. And I'll find another way to remove it.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Attached Link: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=28352&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=76

The Daz forums TOS is ala 'rosity so there wasn't much maliciousness vented there though a mod did peek her head in and warn folks about the TOS and personal stuff. The Daz thread did take interesting turns about ex boyfriends named Brian and Cole, heartbreak, and Capsces morphs. http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=28352&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=76

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

"hough a mod did peek her head in and warn folks about the TOS and personal stuff." and missed all the personal attacks.. funny that.. I counted 4 right off. mostly made by our old friend.. RK ;)

"Re: P6 figures versus M3/V3 by byAnton on 11/27/05 17:36 A lot have people have bought him. But I think with so many conversion type things out there, new content is taking a hit. I'm still watching things." In all fairness it is this statement that seemed to imply that clothing converters in general(Philc,MarkDC etc.) were a deterent to new clothing content. and frankly on some level this is very true many wont buy new stuff when they can convert thier favorite OLD stuff insteaed which is s bit if a dilemma for some clothing merchants when it comes to buying apollo at his "regular" price just for content dev. I think many took the "safe route" and continued to crank out stuff for the unimess injection clones and perhaps releases the WW .DAT files as an after thought for those who might own ,WW and Apollo and may me interested in thier clothing set enough buy it and hope for a successful conversion to apollo. So honestly i see no reason for you to qualify that assertion as it is a realty of advancing technology I ,for example am a rosity merchant in a small nich market of custom BVH motion files for Mike and vicky Well that 3% of poser users who Do animation are like to have bought puppet master and poser physics. for ultra realistic character motion simulationsand trnfer of this motion from figure to figure so where dose that leave me?? ' Ill just have to adapt my marketing strategy to the changing technology i suppose

Wolf I am so done with you period. I can't fathom in what reality you were in when you thought "Hey I'll go post this at Daz!" I'm suprise you don't choke on the word "fairness".

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Since Daz posts aren't numbered, Ilkk list in order. What purpose do these serve? Can someone explain these to me?

Wolf: Straight from the creator
he is very Dissapointed at the Weak support for apollo from merchants so he wont be making another figure.

Fasle: I said Apollo will be my one and only independant human figure. I never said I wasn't making anymore figures.

Ratscloset: It is par for the course with Anton. It seems if things are not on his schedule it is bad

Fictional: Based on nothing factual or historical. With well over 100 products I see no trends to support this fiction

Randym77:He kind of implies that Wardrobe Wizard is what's killing him.

Speculative: I never implied anything of the sort or that anything was being killed.

AlterEgo:And then Anton, unfortunately, often seems to be in the middle of some sort of controversy.

OutofContext: The controversy only ever over of unsolicited comments and judgements like this one.

AlterEgo:One other thing that got me was Anton's complaining about negative reviews of Apollo.

OT: Inappropriate and OT translation.

Ratscloset: It did not seem like Anton did anything to get others to have products for the launch.

Finction : Based on nothing printed or spoken. Blantantly false thoug in fairness Ratscloset wasn't emailed.

AlterEgo:Anton is bemoaning the lack of merchant support. When you think of it, which merchants would be most likely to support AM?! RDNA merchants. You're talking a closed, exclusive staff.

OT :Anton is not bemoaning.

AlterEgo:Anton cooperated with PhilC concerning Wardrobe Wizard, now he complains it's cutting away support? Does Anton really know what's going on?!

Inflamatory and OT: Yes I did. No I am not. You bet I do. Like crystal.

kremesch73:I guess what I'm really trying to say is that it may be Anton's own negativity towards his own product that may not be helping the sales as he whished. As opposed to outer circumstances such as ww or whatever else one can pin the blame on.

False: And thus another urban legend is born. What negativity? I'm not genative nor suggested anything other than making a business decision based on facts.

AlterEgo: Anton can't answer any of the posts here, no matter what type of posts they are. (We won't even get into the reason why....)

Innappropriate and OT: Why is nothing done about this person?

Calypso:Tell that to Anton... he's the one that said AM has bad support that has pretty much led to him not doing Venus...

Innappropriate and OT and out of context: you guys remember her?

AlmightyQUEST:Personally, not having been around for this whole falling out with DAZ or whatever that seems to (fromt he perspective of someone not around for this) unfairly make some people baised against him, he really doesn't come across as quite as negative about the product as people seem to be implying.
That and, not knowing him personally, I can't really say anything about his character.

Hamless but I want to mention it. Perfect Example: So after 2300 views, I can count on new peple are still hearing stuff? From who? From threads and posts like these. Someone like AlmightyQUEST doesn't encounter me or anything I have said but then rather other people's constant OT personality profiles.
I would love to know specifically what is is I supposedly did. I can always smell a "Anton hurt my feelings once" a mile away. But can someone explain what these posts serve to accomplish besides to remind people of a myths that were never true from the day they happened.

Message edited on: 11/30/2005 08:55

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

"Why is nothing done about this person?" it's Ron Knights. ever try and stamp out an RK infestation? he's worse that cockroaches...

Just look at what you have said in this thread-

**
#28 It is hard enough to make a "non-Daz" figure catch on. Merchants don't seem interested and his fans are too few. Sadly I must admit I Apollo will be my one and only independent human figure.

#31 There isn't enough interest, for whatever reasons, to warrant the time and resources to do another similar figure...I just won't be doing Venus.

#34 I think with so many conversion type things out there, new content is taking a hit...figures only cover their own costs. You make your living on the support stuff...I'm just not sure Apollo has enough long term merchant support to justify Venus. You really need LOTS of different merchants involved. Therein lies the dilemma.
**

And you can see why someone would say
**
Anton... he's the one that said AM has bad support that has pretty much led to him not doing Venus...
**

In the Daz thread whose title is-
OT: No female counterpart for Apollo Max

and not be Inappropriate, OT, or out of context especially when that quote was actually a direct reply to someone else in the Daz thread.

Or did you mean you were the one taking it out of context? ;)

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Attached Link: perspective

Calypso why are you here? Aside from a history that goes back to this thread. Tell me how many more years to I have to look forward to your comments?

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

I am a Poser user. This is a Poser forum. If you really want to discuss past history meet me at the RFI.

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

what is RFI?

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Attached Link: http://rfi.elgeneralisimo.com/forums/

RFI= Radio Free Ironbear One of the few remaining places that hasn't turned into a Disney wannabe.

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

QUOTE: The Daz thread did take interesting turns about ex boyfriends named Brian and Cole, heartbreak, and Capsces morphs. UNQUOTE Yea, that was my doing. Not really on track from what was the intial question about a counterpart for Apollo but it was more back in a direction other than slamming or speculation. I hope, Anton, that my comments didn't upset you. Never my intention. I hold you in the highest regard and appreciate your contributions to the community very much!! Richard ;-)~

---Wolff On The Prowl---

Looks like Steve Kondris locked the DAZ thread. Still leaves it up for viewing though!

---Wolff On The Prowl---

The thread is being dealt with.

wait, anton. what's the difference between "...Apollo will be my one and only independant human figure," and not making another figure? frankly, i think most people interpret "figure" to mean "human figure." are you saying you'll make non-human figures? or are you saying you'll be willing to make one for daz? just curious. why don't you just clarify what this statement means: "

34. Re: P6 figures versus M3/V3 by byAnton on 11/27/05 17:36 A lot have people have bought him. But I think with so many conversion type things out there, new content is taking a hit. I'm still watching things. It's hard to explain, but for all the time they take, figures only cover their own costs. You make your living on the support stuff. There is interest, of course, but figures need bery broad merchaant interest to have a healthy and long life. I'm just not sure Apollo has enough long term merchnat support to justify Venus. You really need LOTS of deifferent merchants involved. Therein lies the delema.

because it's merely a paraphrase to go from that to "conversion tools like ww, cc and tailor have hurt new content, and therefore merchant support necessary for a successful figure, so i'm not sure i can justify venus." just saying, "i didn't say that," probably isn't going to give people a new interpretation. i know it hasn't for me; i now don't know what you were trying to say. i think people's reactions to this have been rather extreme, though. personally, i think it would be reasonable that all these new utilities emerging on the market might have some unforeseen negative effects on current marketing practices. i myself buy more clothes because of wardrobe wizard, but it does mean that i tend to consider the nature of the item and not who it's for (excluding pc club, real deal, and proclub items). so anyone making content for apollo wouldn't get out of competing with wusumah, if others shop as i do. i didn't think of that. i could see that scaring other merchants. whatever. (*** disclaimer- again, i'm interpreting. this is not the opinion or statement of anyone not making this post. ***) as a total aside, and in only my opinion, i think this is good. it means that originality and quality will be a better way to succeed than making new versions of the same basic forms (there's a lot of stuff out there that could be duplicated with textures and bump maps on the basic catsuits). and there's far from a dearth of new clothing possibilities. and just an fyi: any beef between you and calypso, you know, i wouldn't have gotten that from her comments.

cobaltdream... HUGS ^^

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

"Tell me how many more years to I have to look forward to your comments?" - Anton

As many years as both of ya'll are around and dwelling in the same communities? ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

Monkeysmell

We all know who AlteredEgo is, so you don't need an explaination of the comments, nor that persons motives. I already called him on his comments and he immediately takes mine out of Context... Called him on that too. Problem is, you can't place people on ignore there. Based on your own comments, Anton, people have come to the conclusion that you feel that WW was hurting your sales. Frankly, I saw it as a major bonus to be able to do more with the character out of the box... i.e. - "Hey, I'm looking at such and such for AM." "Well, do you have Wardrobe Wizard?" Point I'm trying to make is that such scripts and utilities actually open up more support to the figure. Makes a person more apt to buy it if they know they will not be hurting for clothing and such. BTW - I wonder how many people realize that there is AM support over at Poserworld?

"I can't fathom in what reality you were in when you thought "Hey I'll go post this at Daz!" that reality were ADULTS live and have to deal with people freely expressing thier opinions and yes speculations/gossip I'm suprise you don't choke on the word "fairness". well when one exists in a paranoid fever swamp and apparently thrives on being the worlds biggest VICTIM i suppose anything one does not like to hear, would seem unfair ;-).