Is there any way to get the skirt portion of the MFD to work in the cloth room? (so as not to lose the morphs for the torso, et al.) I have tried to simply clothify the 'hip' portion of the dress, but the simulation doesn't run. Am I missing something or will this just not work??? If it won't work then the big question is -- Is there any way to turn it into dynamorphic [grin] clothing? Surely this can be done somehow. Export then import then Morph Manager or something like that? I'm willing to do the experimenting if someone can give me a good idea of what to try.

bookmark

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

JamieReid, are you animating or single-image-ing? And...can you give us an idea of why you'd want to do this? ::::: Opera :::::

No reason why it shouldn't work, according to experiments over at PoserPros. You don't even need to alter the CR2 or geometry (though there's little point in keeping the body handles). Are you using P5, or P6?

http://poserpros.daz3d.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=47259

Quote - can you give us an idea of why you'd want to do this

For me I'd like to know because Dynamic cloth has a more natural look; like it belongs with the pose. The clothes are drapier and falls naturally around the body instead of looking stiff. I'd love to see the MFD redon with a dynamic skirt.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I have to agree with Acadia...although conforming clothes do reduce the amount of preparation time on an image, I'd rather go the extra mile and use dynamic if I had the choice for the reason she stated...they do look more natural...

Say what you mean and mean what you say.

oh, actually, i was asking the question the other way around! In other words, why would you want to keep the top conforming? The link over LittleDragon provided was fascinating! I see the partial answer now, "because sometimes with all-dynamic, the dress falls off". But I have not encountered that yet. ::::: Opera :::::

Quote - why would you want to keep the top conforming?

So that it has that clingy form fitted look :)

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I have begun experimenting with hybrib clothes, and I can say it is great to be able to make a top that fits and poses well onthe upper body with flowing dynamics below. Also, it should make it easier to have deatils like buttons and the like on the conforming portions fo the clothing. That looks really odd with the body handles showing LD }-) Shogakusha

I've found in my experiments that you can get more detail from conforming clothing in the way of seams, butons, ties etc that droop and distort in dynamic clothing. So making thos parts that need to maintain a certain shape conforming but making the areas that need to be flowing into dynamic clothing is a definate plus. I've worked with simply making existing "conforming" groups dynamic and have found that the draw back is that the groups are still "linked" to the primary figure (figure 1) and tend to be "pulled" when the primary is posed, causing distortion in the dynamic. This can be used if the pose isn't too drastic. The best results are to create a seperate dynamic group which requires some editing of the .cr2 file. A good example of this is the fredie hybrid dress by English Bob which has a dynamic Skirt group "below" the hip group. Grab that freebie an look at the .cr2 file as a good example of how this is done. Here's an early pic of a dress I've been working on that uses this method.

This picture shows an overcoat where I just made the existing hp group dynamic. YOu can see the distortion created as the hip group tried to conform as well as go dynamic. mnike

Still relatively new to this, so i'm just doing stills right now, and i'm am still working with poser 5. (Gotta get P6 , if just for the point lights :) ) This is weird category: after rebooting my computer, the cloth simulation runs, but the "collide against" options now only includes 'figure 1' and 'body'. So when the sim runs the skirt drapes right through the legs. What am i missing? BTW, thanks Little_Dragon for the link to the thread, don't know how i missed that one.

For me the best solution is what Serge Marck does with his dresses:

Use the cloth room to make realistic dynamic morphs for a fully conforming cloth.

stahlratte

Why? As I mentioned in the PoserPros thread, main reason for me is I couldn't get this peignoir to work as either full conforming or full dynamic. I don't like the idea of moving long skirts around with morphs, even if you have a zillion of them users can still only do poses that fit the morphs, more-or-less. It is a real clunker to set up and use them that way too. Full dynamic, on the other hand, would be great, except Poser wouldn't run this one through the cloth room. I suspect there are too many near-inward facing polygongs on the folds of the sleeves. Poser also seems to have a problem with any long-sleeved garment, when the arms fold down (over the clothing), it seems to mostly stop the simulation at that point. I'd also say the part dynamic / part conforming has other advantages too, it seems to preserve the folds in this garment better (the fold details are all in the mesh, it doesn't have a transparency or bump map yet). Might be because they drape from the conforming part.

Quote - Use the cloth room to make realistic dynamic morphs for a fully conforming cloth.

How do you do that?

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Quote - No reason why it shouldn't work, according to experiments over at PoserPros. You don't even need to alter the CR2 or geometry (though there's little point in keeping the body handles)

Would you mind explaining how you did that with the MFD?

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Jim, that's gorgeous!

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Thanks!- I've been working on this one for a long time (there is a matching negligee, too), but I sorta put it aside until I could figure out a better way to work the skirts. I first read about the dynamic/conforming setup idea here, that seemed like a perfect solution. There are some details at PoserPros on how I set 'em up.

bookmark

Acadia THe easiest way (Altho there may be some distortion) is select the existing groups (or groups but they must be selected one at a time) as the part to be "clothified" in the Cloth Room. You can select the groups one at a time, repeating the process until all of the groups you want selected are clothified befoer proceeding to the "Collide Against" pop up. As I said tho, the more the groups you clotify are changed by the pose, the more distortion your likely to get. mike

Quote - THe easiest way (Altho there may be some distortion) is select the existing groups (or groups but they must be selected one at a time) as the part to be "clothified" in the Cloth Room. You can select the groups one at a time, repeating the process until all of the groups you want selected are clothified befoer proceeding to the "Collide Against" pop up.

hehe, you lost me, LOL Do I select the groups in the Cloth Room? How do I do that? Do I start a new simulation and then select each group? Do I select one group, clothify, then select another group and clothify that one etc? Or do I select the whole lot of groups and clothify it all together? As you can tell I am pretty green when it comes to the cloth room. All I know how to do is what I learned to do from Poser Fashion's tutorial on how to work with dynamic clothing. I think I use 4 buttons in the cloth room, LOL

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

For example (since I don't have the MFD, I'll guess) the dress is set up so that it has a single "hip" group for the skirt.

In the Pose Room: Load Figure 1 (Victoria, Judy, Jessi etc.) adn Load an confomr your clothing. Advance your Frame approx. 5-10 frames and set the pose on Figure 1. Return the Frame setting to 1

Move to the Cloth Room:
Click on New Simulation to start the ball rolling. I usually check Cloth Self-collision.

Click on Clothify; Click on Object to Clothify = Body Parts and select "hip"; click the Clothify button.

At this point if you have another body group you want to make dynamic as well, re-click on Clothify; Click Object to Clothify - Baody Parts and select the part you want; click the Clothify button.

repeat as needed, until you've selected all the groups.

If you want you can modify the Dynamic groups for Constrained, Choreographed etc. but you don't have to.

Optionally you can adjust the Dynamic Controls for Fold Resistance, Stretch Resistance etc.

Now Calculate the simulation.

That's the basics of the process.

Remember if your Pose affects (in this example) the hip group of figure 1 (Victoria, Judy, Jessie etc.) and that is the group you clothified (in your clothing) there may (probably) be some distortion.

mike

Message edited on: 12/27/2005 19:20

Message edited on: 12/27/2005 19:21

I think I understood that!!! hehe Thank you. I'll try that tomorrow after I've hopefully had some sleep :) I can hardly wait to see my favourite dress actually look like it belongs to a pose :)

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Incidently, if the part you want to clothify (say the hip of the dress) is selected before you enter the Cloth Room it will automatically become the default "clothify" item. The Cloth Room scared me a little at first too, one thing to remember is all those adjustments are for fine tuning, most all the time it will run fairly well with the defalt settings. All you really must set are the clothify item and the collide items. The negligee was set to collide against the ground, in addittion to IV, here.

Quote - All you really must set are the clothify item and the collide items

That's basically what I learned at Poser Fashion. Only now I want to learn how to do this grouping stuff so that I can use some of my conforming dresses, particularly the MFD, in the cloth room and make it a "hybrid" item so that the skirt actually looks more natural with the pose.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

~bookmark~

i'd also like to know more about grouping. for instance, the aiko arabian nights pants already have conforming parts for the legs. they also have materials for just the puffy part i want to be dynamic. should i just rename the relevant leg parts? what seems logical is to remove the puffy/dynamic parts from the body part groupings and make an new dynamic part that includes all of the puffy/dynamic material. how might this be possible? i haven't been able to create groups that span any of the premade groups....

Quote - Advance your Frame approx. 5-10 frames and set the pose on Figure 1. Return the Frame setting to 1

I just noticed that. When I work with Dynamic Clothing, I do a 60 frame simulation and set my pose at frame 30. I learned that at Poser Fashion and have continued to do that because I find the extra frames give the clothing a nicer drapier look to them. Is there a specific purpose that you suggested only 5 to 10 frames? Would 10 be my final pose?

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Ok, I tried this. Only it didn't work, LOL

I followed Trav's instructions above, only I used 60 frames and set my pose at frame 30. Here is what I did:

1. Load figure
2. Add MFD
3. Used Wardrobe Wizard to fit the dress
4. Set 60 frames
5. Did pose at frame 30
6. Went back to frame 1
7. Enter cloth room
8. New Simulation - 60 frames
9. Self Collision
10. Clothify - Dress Hip
11. Clothify - Right Buttock
12. Clothify - Right Thigh
13. Clothify - Right Shin
14. Clothify - Right Foot *because is floor length dress)
15. Clothify - Right Toe
16. Clothify - Repeated steps 10 to 15 for left side.
17. Collide against - Figure 1 (Vicky)
18. Unchecked "start draping at zero frame)
19. Checked "ignore head collision"
20. Checked "ignore hand collision"
    21 Unchecked "ignore foot collision" (because I clothified the foot part of the dress)
21. Calculate Simulation.

Immediately upon starting to calculate the simulation, the dress at the hip began to be pulled downward. As the frames were calculated the skirt got lower and lower. I stopped it at frame 13.

Here is the result. The skirt is way, way down off the window.

Can someone tell me what I did wrong?

Message edited on: 12/28/2005 04:52

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Ok, here is another try. This is what I did this time: 1. Load figure 2. Add MFD 3. Used Wardrobe Wizard to fit the dress 4. Set 60 frames 5. Did pose at frame 30 6. Went back to frame 1 7. Enter cloth room 8. New Simulation - 60 frames 9. Self Collision 10. Clothify - Dress Hip 11. Collide against - Figure 1 (Vicky) 12. Unchecked "start draping at zero frame) 13. Checked "ignore head collision" 14. Checked "ignore hand collision" 15. Checked "ignore foot collision" 16. Calculate Simulation. I stopped this one at frame 6. As you can see the hip of the dress is being pulled downwards.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I had this happen to me once. CLOTH DENSITY cannot be too high, it means it weighs alot and pulls down. STRETCH RESISTENCE try increasing this. ::::: Opera :::::

Ok, thanks :) I'll try that. I'm not familiar with all those other dials and buttons, so I'm learning little by little. Maybe one day I'll actually be able to trouble shoot for myself, hehe Thanks :)

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Colliding with the Ground plane would be a good idea.
Make sure that the clothified part is completely above it before the simulation begins.

This is what I did this time:

1. Load figure
2. Add MFD
3. Used Wardrobe Wizard to fit the dress
4. Set 60 frames
5. Did pose at frame 30
6. Went back to frame 1
7. Enter cloth room
8. New Simulation - 60 frames
9. Self Collision
10. Clothify - Dress Hip
11. Collide against - Figure 1 (Vicky) and Ground
12. Unchecked "start draping at zero frame)
13. Checked "ignore head collision"
14. Checked "ignore hand collision"
15. Checked "ignore foot collision"
16. Turned Stretch Resistance to ZERO
17. Calculate Simulation.

One thing I notice that I noticed before, but wasn't sure about until now...

I have the MFD and "Hip" selected before entering the cloth room. I click "new simulation". However, when I go to "clothify" the hip part of the dress, I get a message saying that the part is already included in the simulation and that I can't clothify it again. There is no "Collide against" button available for me to use though. So I cancel and try again. The second time I cancel I get the "collide against" button which allows me to set the collision.

Maybe the hip of the dress isn't being clothified at all. However, something is being clothified... but if it's not the hip, I don't know what it is.

I tried setting up a new simulation having Vicky and "Body" selected, yet when I went to try and clothify the hip of the dress, I got that same window telling me that the part was included in the simulation. Could this be a by product of having used Wardrobe Wizard to fit the dress?

Message edited on: 12/28/2005 08:31

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Acadia, If you are ONLY selecting Collide against Figure 1 change this. Unchec Universe, which will claer all of the check boxes. Check the following: Ground (sorry forgot that earlier) abdomen hip l&r Buttocks l&r thigh l&r shin l&r foot l&r toe Also, since you are using WW to fit the dress, besure that the hip are (the part you are clothifying) does not intersect the figure 1 anywhere. It's best to bee too big if anything. If there is an poke thru on a collision group AT ALL it nullifies the collsion detection. "I have the MFD and "Hip" selected before entering the cloth room. I click "new simulation". However, when I go to "clothify" the hip part of the dress, I get a message saying that the part is already included in the simulation and that I can't clothify it again. There is no "Collide against" button available for me to use though. So I cancel and try again. The second time I cancel I get the "collide against" button which allows me to set the collision." In this case you would need to DELETE the Simulation and start from scratch. I'll be watching the tread if you continue to have problems. THis has been a fairly straight forward process, but I may be missing some detail from habit. I "run" something thru to see if I pick any ting up. mike

Here is how I'm setting up the cloth simulations, bear in mind I'm making this up as I go along, it is all new to me: I mostly use 16 frames in the simulation The starting pose for the figure is the same as the end frame pose, with some* exceptions. I use special morphs plus the standard rotate and scale dials to get the cloth outside the figure in the starting frame. My stuff is set up so the "clothify" part is a physical part below the last conforming part, so it has all the standard dials. I don't think this plan will work very well when the clothify part is also a conforming part. In the final frame I zero all the morph and rotate dials and put all the scale back to 100% for the clothify part. This is important. *the exceptions would be when part of the figure aids in the simulation, like the leg moving into a slit in the skirt, or if some of the limbs must be moved to get the cloth outside the figure in the first frame. I'm still feeling my way on this, here is the negligee again on another simulation I just ran, I had it collide with th eground, too. Incidently, it is also important that your figure stays the same height during the simulation, if it moves up or down you will get a bad crease between the dynamic and conforming parts. I'm going to set up poses (as I have been doing for my other dynamic clothing) to make it easier for the users to get the hang of all this. In this case I may have one multi-fram pose for the figure, another for the clothing. Looks good in red satin, doesn't it? ;-)

Part of the problem is that the hip part of dress goes through the Ground with V3 in the default zeroed pose. At the very least you'll need to drop the human figure to the floor or raise it up enough to make sure the clothified part is above the Ground at the start of the simulation (length morphs would also work).

My therory as to why the dress stretches, its because the dress hip does not have a choreographed group.

In Poser 5 cloth room, under the 'cloth groups' settings for [hip] click the 'edit choreographed group' button, you should see a ring of red dots around the top edge of the dress hip.

If not, then check the 'hide other objects button' on the 'group editor' to get a better view and zoom, pan, and rotate camera as neccissary (may want to switch to posing camera, so as not to lose the main's posistion). then select each of, and only, the top vetices of the dress hip. If you get any that you shouldn't, select the minus button on the 'group editor' and then select the vertices that don't belong. Click the plus button to start adding again. make sure to go all the way around.

When done, close the 'group editor', return camera, and run the simulation. If this doesn't work... well at least it's a good exercise for editing dynamic cloth groups. :)

Message edited on: 12/28/2005 12:03

Message edited on: 12/28/2005 12:04

I've found with out exception in my trials that if you clothify a group that is "welded" to another in the CR2 file the vertices at the joint are automatically placed in the choreographed group, which is usually more than enough. Mind you I still believe it has to do with selecting the individual groups to clooide against. Also I think 60 frames is WAY more than necessary for this simulation. Some where between 15 and 30 should be more than enough

mike

Message edited on: 12/28/2005 13:08

It has been my experience as well that "welded" verts are atuomatically turn into choreographed, but Wardrobe Wizard might have affected this. As a trial I took the MFD and moved the choreographed group to default, and the sim results looked the same as the posted pic. Oh well, it was worth a shot. Observation, theory and experimentation are a tried a true method of learning. :)

Here is an example of a V2 skirt I made a while ago. THe skirt is simply a HIP group clothified using the settings I mentioned earlier simulation rean 30 frames. Pose was set on fram3 6. The only thing I did different than Acadia was to set collision for each group and I lowered the Fold Resistance to30 and the Stretch Resistance to 10 mike

Here I've made just an outline. It's hard to see but may give some indication of the figure's movement.

Jim, Missed your 2nd post. Are you saying that moving the automatically generated choreograph group vets to default caused the dress to stretch like Acadia's pictures? Just trying for clarification. mike

This is an interesting thread to follow and opens up a lot options that I'd never thought of before.

I just had a play with "The Dress" and that has real possibilities....

Now if I can add the sleeves and get them grouped... The whole idea certainly warrants more experimentation.

The supreme irony of life is that hardly anyone gets out of it alive.
Robert A. Heinlein

11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-11900K @ 3.50GHz   3.50 GHz
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Geforce RTX 3060 12 GB
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Yea, I don't own WW so this is a shot in the dark, but it looked the same. BTW, Trav, what version of Poser are you using, I'm on 5 and I can't get the figures legs to come up as an option on the "collides against" tree. Is this a version issue?

Message edited on: 12/28/2005 14:31

I've been working on sleeves as well and have a suggestion. Due to the fact that most poses really move the arm joints the sleeves seem to distor a lot if you try to clothify the existing groups. I use confomring groups up to the point where I want to sleeves to flow that add seperate dynamic groups for there out. It involves a bit of CR2 editing but the effect is much better. mike

I'm on Poser 6 so that may be a problem, I never did much with dynamics in P5... so it could be an issue with the differences in the versions! I tried the same experiment in P6, moving the choreographed group into the default dynamic groups AND leaving the floor unchecked for collision. The clothing dropped thru the floor but did not stretch thru the figure as your render shows. So you may have found something there! great! mike

Quote - I'm on 5 and I can't get the figures legs to come up as an option on the "collides against" tree. Is this a version issue?

Yeah, now that you mention it, all I get in the collide against window for the figure is "Figure 1 - Body".

At least I know it's nothing with WW seeing that you get the same result as me doing it without having run it through WW. Message edited on: 12/28/2005 16:01

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I ran the MFD in Poser 6 before I did "The Dress" didn't have any issues - worked fine for me. However just tried same thing in P5 and no go - didn't drop through floor but had poke through everywhere???? Looks like something different between P5 & P6.

The supreme irony of life is that hardly anyone gets out of it alive.
Robert A. Heinlein

11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-11900K @ 3.50GHz   3.50 GHz
64.0 GB (63.9 GB usable)
Geforce RTX 3060 12 GB
Windows 11 Pro

So Poser 5 cloth room doesn't have the ability to do this then? :(

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Well, i was waiting for three reasons to upgrade to 6 and after point lights and ambient occlusion the cloth room now make three. :) "Hold on to your lugnuts -- it's time for an overhaul!" -The Mask

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/tut.ez?Form.ViewPages=868

I didn't upgrade to version 6 because while I had Poser 5 since spring of 2004, I didn't really figure out how to do anything in it until October or November last year. Poser 6 came out in February or so. I didn't feel a need to upgrade to a new version when I had just started using the one I had. However, over the last few months I've seen some features in the interface that I wouldn't mind having now, and add to that this cloth room business, now I'm thinking of upgrading. However, I'll give it a little more thought. Though the ability to make my conforming dresses partly dynamic is very appealing. There is a tutorial on how to turn conforming clothing into dynamic clothing. I haven't tried it. But I'm wondering if that works in Poser 5 cloth room? Has anyone tried that in Poser 5?

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Sorry Acadia, from experiments it seems as if P5 won't do it - however the tutorials on Serbe Mac's site do work but that involves changing the conforming clothing into dynamic completely....... So I'm guessing that only purpose made "hybrid" clothing will work in Poser 5's cloth room. Waiting for someone to correct me though!

The supreme irony of life is that hardly anyone gets out of it alive.
Robert A. Heinlein

11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-11900K @ 3.50GHz   3.50 GHz
64.0 GB (63.9 GB usable)
Geforce RTX 3060 12 GB
Windows 11 Pro

I have a hybrid tunic I made for Aiko awhile back with a dynamic skirt part, as opposed to just setting the hip to dynamic. If someone with P5 want to try it drop me a line and I'll send it to them. I'm interested to know if any hybrid will work. mike

"... it seems as if P5 won't do it ..."
Nothing that a bit of text editing can't cure though :)

Save the scene as a PZ3, open in text editor, look for the "ignorebodyparts" line and delete the names of the body parts you want the dynamic part to collide against, save then load back into P5 and run the simulation.

Quote - If someone with P5 want to try it drop me a line and I'll send it to them. I'm interested to know if any hybrid will work.

Yes, hybrids do work in Poser 5. My gallery image "Ashley" shows the use of the "Posh" Dress for V3 by EnglishBob; the skirt is dynamic and the bodice conforming.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Quote - look for the "ignorebodyparts" line and delete the names of the body parts you want the dynamic part to collide against, save then load back into P5 and run the simulation.

Delete? Wouldn't deleting the body parts to collide against mean the cloth will end up intersecting with the legs?

Also, I opened the PZ3 in Notepad, and this is what I find in the "ignorebodyparts" area. Should I delete the "thigh" and "shin" parts? When I go to select "Colide against" in the cloth room, I am only given the option "Figure 1 - Body". Which is grossly different than when I'm working with "real" dynamic clothing. In the case of real dynamic clothing, I have a long list of body parts to pick from.

ignorebodyparts hip:1 abdomen:1 chest:1 neck:1 head:1 leftEye:1 rightEye:1 rCollar:1 rShldr:1 rForeArm:1 rHand:1 rThumb1:1 rThumb2:1 rThumb3:1 rIndex1:1 rIndex2:1 rIndex3:1 rMid1:1 rMid2:1 rMid3:1 rRing1:1 rRing2:1 rRing3:1 rPinky1:1 rPinky2:1 rPinky3:1 lCollar:1 lShldr:1 lForeArm:1 lHand:1 lThumb1:1 lThumb2:1 lThumb3:1 lIndex1:1 lIndex2:1 lIndex3:1 lMid1:1 lMid2:1 lMid3:1 lRing1:1 lRing2:1 lRing3:1 lPinky1:1 lPinky2:1 lPinky3:1 rButtock:1 rThigh:1 rShin:1 rFoot:1 rToe:1 lButtock:1 lThigh:1 lShin:1 lFoot:1 lToe:1 head: rHand: lHand: lFoot: rFoot:
collision_depth 1.000000
collision_offset 1.000000
Dynamic_Friction 0.100000
Static_Friction 0.500000 Message edited on: 12/28/2005 18:18

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

This is what you want that line to look like :-

ignorebodyparts     chest:1 neck:1 head:1 leftEye:1 rightEye:1<br></br>          rCollar:1 rShldr:1 rForeArm:1 rHand:1<br></br>               rThumb1:1 rThumb2:1 rThumb3:1 rIndex1:1 rIndex2:1<br></br>           rIndex3:1 rMid1:1 rMid2:1 rMid3:1 rRing1:1 rRing2:1<br></br>         rRing3:1 rPinky1:1 rPinky2:1 rPinky3:1 lCollar:1<br></br>            lShldr:1 lForeArm:1 lHand:1 lThumb1:1 lThumb2:1<br></br>             lThumb3:1 lIndex1:1 lIndex2:1 lIndex3:1 lMid1:1<br></br>             lMid2:1 lMid3:1 lRing1:1 lRing2:1 lRing3:1 lPinky1:1<br></br>                lPinky2:1 lPinky3:1

And make sure it is all one line (turn off word wrap).
I had to split for browser friendliness.

What I removed was :- hip:1 abdomen:1 lButtock:1 rButtock:1

lThigh:1 rThigh:1 lShin:1 rShin:1

lFoot:1 lToe:1 rShin:1 rFoot:1 rToe:1

Well, I tried deleting those lines and saved the file after doing it :) I still get the same stretching effect as all the other tries. It seems that there is something in the Poser 6 program's coding that Poser 5 doesn't have, that allows the cloth room to do this technique. I'd be interested in knowing what is so vastly different about the Poser 6 cloth room that it can do this but Poser 5 cannot. Who would I write to so I can direct them to this thread?

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Acadia, you've satisfied yourself that the problem is not your settings in "Dynamics Controls"? ::::: Opera :::::

The stretching is because the hem of the dress starts BELOW the Ground plane.

Because of the way the collision works, the parts below the Ground are being pushed away from it, so as more and more gets pulled below, it just keeps going as there is then nothing to collide with.

LOL, I have no idea :) I'm new to all of those controls. Until today all I have done is make a new simulation, clothify, set up collision and run the simulation :) I changed shear resistance to a low number (5) I increased Stretch Resistance to 1000 I turned the cloth density as low as it would go I made the "corset" a constrained group I made sure the skirt was a dynamic group I edited the PZ3 file to delete the right and left buttocks/thigh/shin/foot/toe parts. Not sure what else I can try. I can't help but think it has something to do with that window I get. As I said above, when I enter the cloth room I have MFD selected, and "hip". I click "New Simulation". To that point everything goes as it should. A problem starts when I try to clothify. I click "Clothify", I get the window asking me which item to clothify; I pick "Hip". This is where the problem happens. Instead of the clothify window closing and giving me the button to select collision, nothing happens, but the parameter dials window flashes for a second. Not sure what that's about. Anyway, the little clothify window remains. If I click "clothify" again, I get another window that tells me that the item is already included in the simulation and that I can't clothify it a second time. I click cancel and the clothify window closes...but I still don't have the button allowing me to access the collision. I click "Clothify" again, and when the window appears and I click "Clothify", I get the window warning me that the item is already included in the simulation. This time when I click "Cancel", all the buttons become visible to me and I can then select the collision. Which brings me to another difference that I found from the usual findings with dynamic clothing. With real dynamic clothing, or real hybrid dynamic clothing, when I'm picking the collision, there is a long list of body parts to pick from. However, with this technique we're doing here, the only thing I have to pick from are: Figure 1 Body MFD Ground

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Raising V3 using the hip yTrans makes sure that the clothified part starts completely above the Ground.

Message edited on: 12/28/2005 19:34

Quote - The stretching is because the hem of the dress starts BELOW the Ground plane.

Because of the way the collision works, the parts below the Ground are being pushed away from it, so as more and more gets pulled below, it just keeps going as there is then nothing to collide with.

Wow! Good eye! I'll try that! Message edited on: 12/28/2005 19:35

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

"*Which brings me to another difference that I found from the usual findings with dynamic clothing. With real dynamic clothing, or real hybrid dynamic clothing, when I'm picking the collision, there is a long list of body parts to pick from. However, with this technique we're doing here, the only thing I have to pick from are:

Figure 1
Body
MFD
Ground
*"

It appears that the Collision part selector is broken in P5 for this, which is why you need to edit the PZ3 to remove the appropriate body parts from the ignore list.

Done in P5. Simulation started as suggested after editing PZ3, drop to floor at frame 10, then move V3 hip down to position as shown (not exactly the worlds most useful animation).

EDIT: Actually no it isn't. LOL It just started to stretch at a later time than frame 1. I'll edit the PZ3 on this one and see what happens.

Message edited on: 12/28/2005 19:58

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I tried what you suggested and moved the hip of the dress up on the Y axis. However, it shifted the entire dress upwards and looked awful, not to mention it uncovered the entire top of the figure. So instead of doing that, I moved the whole figure, including the dress up off the floor on the Y axis, just until the back hem of the dress was very slightly off the floor as seen in a tilted side view using the main camera. I then did the cloth room stuff. Saved the file as a PZ3, exited Poser and then edited the PZ3 file to get rid of those entries as listed a few posts up. However, now I can't even open the PZ3 file in Poser. I thought it was just taking loger but after 15 minutes I closed Poser, rebooted and tried again. I still can't open up the PZ3 now. It totally hangs up like it's opening, only it never opens. Does this work with the MFD in Poser 6 without all the jumping through hoops of having to lift the dress and edit PZ3 files etc etc? If so it will be the one single thing that will push me to upgrade to Poser 6, because I've long wanted to have that dress's skirt dynamic, and in order to be able to get that, it's worth spending the money to upgrade as it will allow me way more versatility.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Acadia, I can't say specifically for the MFD as I don't have it. But I can say the you will still have to insure that the dress is above the floor when you start the simulation. Best way to do this is conform it to the figure and in frame 1 lift the figure slightly above the floor. At the same frame where you set up your pose you can drop the figure back to the floor. the effect will be that the figure will jump up during the simulation and the dress will collide with the floor as the figure comes down, rather than passing thru it. You should NOT have to edit the PZ3 files. I have never edited a PZ3 file when working with Hybrids. mike

Quote - I have never edited a PZ3 file when working with Hybrids.

This isn't a "true hybrid" in that it wasn't created to be a hybrid. Apparently there is a difference from what I can figure out.

I've used EnglishBob's hybrid Posh Dress, and I didn't have to jump through hoops.

I conformed the dress. Did my pose etc. Went to the cloth room and started a new simulation and picked "Skirt" when I was asked to select the item to clothify. It all worked very smoothly and was super easy to do.

I'm tired of this today. Three hours of leaping through hoops for naught. I'll try again tomorrow with a different dress, a shorter one and see how things go.

Quote - in frame 1 lift the figure slightly above the floor. At the same frame where you set up your pose you can drop the figure back to the floor.

After editing the PZ3 file before I found out about the dress intersecting the floor, I was able to open the edited PZ3 file in Poser.

However, I can't get Poser to open the edited PZ3 where the figure was lifted off. It just hangs up.

Can someone who has the MFD and Poser 6 try this conforming/dynamic thing on it and see if it works without having to edit PZ3's? And post a screenshot of the end results?

Message edited on: 12/28/2005 22:10

Message edited on: 12/28/2005 22:11

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Acadia- I just upgraded to 6, i'll give the MFD-hybrid a try once i'm done cleaning house. I'll let you know here, probably tommorrow.

Great, thanks :) I'm heading to bed now anyway :)

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Luck!

In P6, the cloth simulator works even if the dress starts below the ground, i.e. when conformed to V3 in the default zero position.

Can you post a picture of the results? Also, when you go to pick the collision, are you able to pick more than what we could in Poser 5?

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

"*Can you post a picture of the results?*"

Done in P6, no figure movement.

Message edited on: 12/29/2005 07:20

"*Also, when you go to pick the collision, are you able to pick more than what we could in Poser 5?*" Yes.

Hmmm, thanks :) eFrontier should give you a commission :) I think I'll upgrade to version 6 as well now.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

"I think I'll upgrade to version 6 as well now."

It's definitely worth it, as many things that were missing or didn't work right in P5 are in P6.

After upgrading to Poser 6 all i can say is uh, wow, OK, that was easy! The MFD's skirt can definitely be made dynamic in P6 without any hassle whatsoever. 1. load figure 2. load and conform dress 3. move to frame 10 or so and pose figure 4. new cloth sim 5. clothify dress' hip 6. collide against figure body parts 7. run sim

Attached Link: Cloth Room Helper

There's a free utility to help you with this at PhilC's site, called Cloth Room Helper.

I could be wrong on this, but after playing around with the MFD, it seems that the morphs won't work after running through the cloth simulation. I tried setting several morphs for the chest, in both the Body and Chest of the dress and got nothing. Anyone else notice this?

________________________________________________________________

If you're joking that's just cruel, but if you're being sarcastic, that's even worse.

So long as the dress fits the figure after the simulation is done, whether it retains it's morphs really doesn't matter to me.

I'm downloading my upgrade now.

I remembered the other features that I liked but didn't feel "necessary": preview, rendering in layers. But this cloth room is the biggie and was the deciding factor.

Message edited on: 12/29/2005 18:55

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

modus, did you clothify the entire dress? I've found that morphs in unclothified groups are still usable. mike

No, just the hip. I'm not exactly sure what happened, because I had the voluptous morph work, then tried another morph and got no response.

________________________________________________________________

If you're joking that's just cruel, but if you're being sarcastic, that's even worse.

Sometimes, it seems, the morphs work but Poser doesn't want to show them, or something. Try turning the Dynamics Dial for the clothified part back to zero in the first frame, that might help.

Trav, I've just skimmed through the entire thread and had a question about one of your post.

"Remember if your Pose affects (in this example) the hip group of figure 1 (Victoria, Judy, Jessie etc.) and that is the group you clothified (in your clothing) there may (probably) be some distortion."

Could you please explain to me what this distortion is and how it's different than the normal movements created after using the clothroom? I am planning to use this hybrid method and most of my poses have rotations in the hip. I am just curious how the hip movements can cause this distortion.

chinnei, On the attached picture note the poke thru designated by the red arrow and the "bubbling" at the front pointed to by the green arrow. This is casues because the Figure 1 hip is rotated fairly heavily. The Cloth room simualtion forms the dress to the Figure 1 posed shape. THe dress hip group then responds to the Figure one rotation (becasue it's conformed to it) and "over rotates the dress. You can also pick up distortion like this if the child groups of the hip are moved in an exagerated way (in this case the buttocks). If the rotation isn't too extreme this can be compensated for. Also you an try to re-do your poses using the abdomen and the thigh groups to minimize movement in the hip and buttocks. Dedicated hybrid clothing should be build with "dynamic" groups to avoid this effect. Existing clothing anc be modified by adding a dynamic group, but this requires modification of the .CR2 mike

trav - can you list the process for regrouping an item? or good techniques?

Thanks for explainig that Mike.

Would regrouping the hip portion of clothing to something different and clotifying that instead do any good?

Ok, here is how I'd regroup dresses to have a dynamic group for the cloth room. I'll include 3 screen shots taken from CR2Editor. Use either UVMapper or the Grouping tool to rename the ENTIRE "hip" group to something like "Skirt". I've found recently that this actuall works better than leaving a small "hip" group in the skirt. TO add the Skirt group to the cr. Open the file in your editor and locate the first instance of "actor hip" and copy it. Insert it BELOW the original group. Rename it to match your new dynamic group. (see attached example)

Move down to the next instance of "actor hip", below the second "figureResFile". Copy it and insert it after the original. Rename it to "actor Skirt" or to match your new dynamic group... rememeber this can be case sensitive. If using 'Cr2editor' expand the "actor Skirt" group. Locate the "parent" line and replace "BODY" with "abdomen" and a number matching the other "actor" groups. If there is a "conforming target" line present, then delete it. (see attached example)

so just renaming works? cool. is there so is there a way in uvmapper to remove a material from multiple groups and then create a group with the material?

Now move down to the "figure" section, expand it if you are using "Cr2editor". Insert a new "addchild" line anywhere below "addChild hip:#, BODY:#", the new line should read "addChild Skirt:#, hip:#" (substitute your dynamic groups name for Skirt) Continue down and add a new "weld" line below "weld abdomen:#, hip:#", the new line should read "weld Skirt:#, abdomen:#". It's important that the skirt group be welded to the ABDOMEN section. This set up makes the "hip" groups a ghost group in the dress and eleminates any over "rotation" from movement of the hip group in Figure 1. (see attached example)

Here'aa a picture showing the same dress in that same pose as I used to demonstrate the the over rotation distortion. I used the technique outlined above to regroup it and you can see the difference in the results. I hope this helps you out. mike

yes, that helps a great deal. thank you so much for that detailed information! i'll be trying it out as soon as i can.

This is what I did to the MFD to make it a hybrid conformer: - load MFD, set it to zero pose; - export as Wavefront.OBJ, weld vertices, keep groups; (body handles not exported). - reimport the .OBJ; - made a new group "Skirt" in the Grouping Tool, and added the existing groups hip, lButtock, rButtock, and all other body parts below the waistline; - switched to the Setup Room and applied the MFD figure to the object, this gave me the morphs in the upper part of the dress; - added a bone to the abdomen called Skirt, to keep the setup room happy; - switch back to the Pose room. Then I loaded V3, conformed the dress, clothified the Skirt, and went from there. All done.

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I upgraded to Poser 6 in December just so I could do this!!! Had it not been for this thread and the fact that the MFD can be used in the Poser 6 cloth room, but not the Poser 5 one, I wouldn't have upgraded.

Here are 3 results using the MFD in the P6 cloth room. I'm thrilled that my favourite dress has so much more versatility and can actually look natural. I've never been able to get results like these until I took the dress into the cloth room.

Message edited on: 02/05/2006 17:06

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I've gotten a few PM's to something I said in another thread about using the MFD in the cloth room of Poser 6. I figure I'll move this thread up in case anyone else is interested in doing this. It's still my most favourite feature of Poser 6.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I love the MFD and I LOVE being able to use it in the cloth room, it's actually the primary reason that I upgraded to Poser 6.

Does this work in Poser 7 the same way as it does in Poser 6?

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I'm still loving this technique!

I just tried it on one of the skirts from Flamenco available at Daz.  Click for a larger view.

The skirt initially fell down around the knees, so I turned the cloth density down as low as it would go. That helped quite a bit but the hip still didn't stay in place.  So next I tried to edit the "Constrained Group", but I wasn't getting the popup that allowed me to do that, so I chose  edit "Soft" something or other and then in the drop down picked "constrained" and set some pins on each side of the hip, in front in the middle and then in between the middle and side on both sides.

This is the result.  I can easily go and delete the simulation and redo the pins and add one more so that the skirt stays in place where I have the black arrow pointing.

You can also see that the skirt  looks like it has movement instead of looking stiff because you are limited only to what the included morphs allow you to do.

The ability to clothify parts of conforming clothing really adds a whole new dimension to your figure's clothing and extends the life of the outfits you have because you are no longer limited to just certain poses.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Ok, this question is a bit contentious but here goes.

Can anyone please tell me how the cloth simulation was set up to give the definition of the nipples and breasts as seen below? I have a render that I have been working on for a while and this is the effect that I was after with the dynamics but all I get is a very slight raise in the fabric around the nipples or breakthrough, nothing like the definition shown in the image quoted below.

Any help appreciated.

UA

Quote - Here is an example of a V2 skirt I made a while ago. THe skirt is simply a HIP group clothified using the settings I mentioned earlier simulation rean 30 frames. Pose was set on fram3 6. The only thing I did different than Acadia was to set collision for each group and I lowered the Fold Resistance to30 and the Stretch Resistance to 10
 
mike

 

 

Urbanarmitage, you might want to PM trav and ask him.  However to me it looks like he might have used Wardrobe Wizard to fit the dress to V2 prior to clothifying the hip of the dress.  I know when I use Wardrobe Wizard to fit clothing.....it fits it snuggly and sometimes I end up with that effect.

http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?Who=trav

 

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

You can also adjust the "Collision Offset" and "Collision Depth" (see the manual for an explaination of what they do), but basiclly they control how close the cloth can come to the figure.
If you set them so the cloth can get closer to the figure, smaller feature like the nipples will show up more.

Urbanarmitage, sorry I haven;t popped in here for quite a while, luckily someone sent me an email to stop by...

Sorry to have to disappoint you about the bodice and mipples in the dress above but they aren;t dynamic at all! That's one of the things I LOVE about the hybrid clothing from just below the corsette (a seperate figure) down the dress is dynamic and about to "flow" with the figure. From the same point up, it's totally conforming allowing me to model in as much detail as I want ahd have it stay in place. The effect of having it billow out around the corsette and the definition on the breasts are all hard modeled into the dress figure.

Honestly I don;t think this kind of detail CAN be made into a totally dynamic dress, but I could be wrong... SVDL has taken fully dynamic clothing to a realism level I can;t come close to duplicating other than to model them in on my wn.

mike

Thanks for the advice and comments all. I'll try playing around with the Collision Offset and Collision Depth again but I wasn't able to get too close to the desired effect like that last time. I'm still very much a Poser noob though so I may get lucky. ;)

Mike, that makes a lot more sense now! The way the cloth up top seemed figure-hugging in places made me assume that it was dynamic. I downloaded SVDL's hybrid a little while ago so i'll try that and see how it pans out. His work really is awesome. Thanks for getting back to me!

UA

 

I've has success with the MFD but I don't cloify the hip, I cloify the skirt group.  Another thing I found with some sims where the long dress or skirt is being pulled below the gound is to check the ground in the collisions.  It's another one of those things that sometimes it helps and sometimes it makes no difference.

could the cloth room be used to create a piece of dynamic cloth that is held in the hads of the figure and not worn! for instance holding a towel or a bed sheet!?

hope you can help thanks!!

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I think I responded to this thread once before but I wanted t mention something that might help.

I can only speak for the original V3 Morphing Fantasy Dress, because I made it, and I am not sure how derivatives changed or were altered as later versions were released.

But the original MFD was created in the Poser cloth room as were all the morphs.

However, smoothing and crinkling were an issue. After I made the morphs I went into light wave and smoothed the crinkles.

Point being, you can use the timeline to blend two different simulations(as morphs) together to get a smoother version. You will loose a bit of heavy draping but not so much in the end.

You can use the blended simulations for your final render.

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I don't know much about animation and the cloth room scares me. But there is a tutorial at Daz called "Using Partial Dynamics For Clothing" that ought to be useful for this.

Quote - could the cloth room be used to create a piece of dynamic cloth that is held in the hads of the figure and not worn! for instance holding a towel or a bed sheet!?

hope you can help thanks!!

 

Yes, the cloth room can be used for such things.

Hey! His nose is dry! ... Someone should lick it,  just in case. - Diego

Wewt!

Tried this out and dayum!

It works!

Silke

Quote - Wewt!

Tried this out and dayum!

It works!

It's great isn't it?  And it's not limited to just the MFD!  You can see the result of my having done this with one of the Flamenco skirts. I use it for all kinds of dresses and skirts and it works great! Sometimes you have to edit a constrained group in the material room to pin the hip to the figure so the dress/skirt doesn't slide down, but once you have done that, it works great! No more excuses for stiff looking posed skirts, hehe

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I see most things have been covered pretty well, except for cloth room settings, I've posted this info many times, but this fast moving forum loses good threads quickly.

Bend Resistance : this is the amount of force required to change the rotation of a single polygon along one of its edges. Entering 0 gives no resistance, meaning any single polygon can rotate along any of its edges freely. Generally a bad idea setting this to 0, flowing cloth goes haywire! (imagine scrunching up fabric in your hand. that silk shirt will scrunch up easily, leather would be nearly impossible to scrunch up)
Suggested Settings : 
3-15 : Good for thin loose fabrics, such as silk and cotton.
30-100 : Thick fabrics, such as wool
150-300 : Very thick fabrics, Leather is a good example, although leather should really have a higher setting, much higher than this and things start to move like there under water.

Stretch Resistance : The amount one or more vertice can move away from another vertice of the same polygon. (imagine holding opposite ends of a piece of fabric, and pulling away. a cotton shirt would stretch a little, silk would not)
*Suggested Settings :*10-25 : Lightly woven fabrics, such as cotton
50-100 : Average fabrics, wool, silk, cotton, etc
200+ : Hard fabrics, leather etc.

Shear Resistance : The amount one or more vertice can move on a single axis away from another vertice of the same polygon. (imaging grabbing a piece of fabric in both hands, with your hands touching. then moving one hand up, and the other down. this movement is shearing)
Suggested Settings :
<50 : Extremely lightly woven fabrics, such as cotton or loose wool.
50-100 : most fabrics, cotton, silk, wool.
200+ : Hard/Thick fabrics, such as leather.

Cloth Density : The amount of weight applied to an individual polygon. (pick up a TINY piece of fabric, the wieght of that tiny peice is like this setting)
Suggested Settings :
0.0001 : Light, thin fabrics, silk, loose-weave cotton
0.001 : Average fabrics, cotton, wool (medium weave)
0.005 : Thick fabrics, cotton (double weave) wool
0.01 : Very thick or very heavy fabrics, such as leather

Other settings, such as friction etc I generally dont touch. unless Im looking for a certain type of movement from the cloth. so I wont touch those. the default settings are generally enough.

Some Things to Remember.

Cloth Density directly effects how each of the other settings work. increasing the density may require you to change the shear or strength resistance. I highly suggest setting cloth density first (guage your setting by the speed that the fabric falls. After getting a decent density, then start working on the other settings.

EXTREMELY IMPORTANT :
All cloth room settings are directly effected by the complexity of the model.
This is mainly due to Cloth Density being a per-polygon setting. if you double the amount of polygons, you are effectivly doubling the wieght.  the settings I have put here work well with most feely available cloths. such as SVDL dynamic cloth. SVDL did an excellent job of getting enough complexity to look good, without being so complex that calculations take an unreasonable amount of time.  This can become a problem with turning conforming to dynamic. some conforming clothes are just too complicated for the cloth room to handle.

A few Dynamic Tips :

If you have poses that you want to use where the arm is folded, or the knees are bent, and your fabric is getting caught in the joint. use a low-res sphere from Props->primitives.
switch to the first frame.
parent it to the joint in question, position it so that it sits roughly at the centre of the joint. set the scale to 0.

head to your frame that has the final pose in it. use transform and scale (on individual axis) to "fill" up the joint so there is no space for the fabric to fit in.

Open up the Keyframe editor, select all the keyframes for the low-res sphere, and switch it to linear movement (click the orange color thing in the top right) the keyframes will go from green to orange. (this means the dial changes you make are kept exactly as you set them)

Now, move between the first and final frame watching your joint and adjust the scale and tranform accordingly.

what you want is the sphere to increase in size and shape (and position if needed) to always fill the joint so that the fabric cannot get caught there.

Another tip :
use low-res spheres for head, hand and feet collision. this will stop fabrics getting caught between the fingers/toes and greatly speed up calculation time. as the low-res shere has about 5% of the polygons that V4's hand does!

I have worked EXTENSIVELY with both dynamic rooms (see my gallery, theres ALOT of dynamics in there) so feel free to ask any questions about any aspect. I will try my best to help.

TemplarGFX
3D Hobbyist since 1996
I use poser native units

167 Car Materials for Poser

wow thanks - great tips!!!!

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

Great tips!  Thanks :)

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

yes, thank you!  and anton, thanks for the tip about blended simulations.

A much less painful way to do this would be to conform the MFD to your figure,  use all the morph dials you want, then export the MFD as an obj. When you reimport it, all the morphs will be intact, and you can now clothify it. You may then want to open the Edit Choreographed Group or Edit Constrained Group and add a few anchor points between the shoulders (where no one will see them), which will keep the torso portion of the newly dynamic cloth in place through even the most violent contortions.

Ok, I'm coming to the discussion late, I realize that, but it's been a fascinating tutorial.  Jim, I was wondering about that negligee from the beginning of this thread.  Is that available somewhere? I love it and would like to pick it up if it's available.

My thanks to all the Poser Scholars who participate in the Forum. Without you, we would be truly clueless.

Quote - Ok, I'm coming to the discussion late, I realize that, but it's been a fascinating tutorial.  Jim, I was wondering about that negligee from the beginning of this thread.  Is that available somewhere? I love it and would like to pick it up if it's available.

My thanks to all the Poser Scholars who participate in the Forum. Without you, we would be truly clueless.

I believe it's at Daz3D

http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/shop/itemdetails/-/?item=5206&cat=

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I wasnt even aware that one could "clothify" conforming clothing.  This is something I shall have to try as I too find it frustrating that the dresses NEVER have enough moprhs for all your possible poses.  I will let you know if I have better luck.

wardrobe wizzard 2 can turn conforming clothing into a prop which can then be made dynamic in the cloth room. Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

Quote - wardrobe wizzard 2 can turn conforming clothing into a prop which can then be made dynamic in the cloth room.

apparently, so can PhilC's free ClothingRoomHelper utility, a link to which can be found on page 4 of this thread. I just downloaded it, and reading the "read me" file makes me say what I just said. Can't wait to try it, I'm already a big fan of Wardrobe Wizard in particular and PhilC in general :)  

well, I can report that PhilC's clothing room helper seems to work fine on v3MFD, but on Gown for Maddie3, it just draped (with active progress bar) for 19 hours before I finally used task manager to terminate Poser 6.
One thing I didn't expect to happen  (when applying CRH python buttons) was a popupwindowmessage that prompted me to change my end frame to 1 (iow, delete 29 frames from my default 30)...so I did.

The reasons I let it go to see if it would finish must be obvious to the strong user :)
That I will be looking into this more is also obvious, heh.
Today I will be trying the CRHelper on MFD expansion after I use WWizard, to go from V3 to Maddie3.
Any insights would be enormously appreciated. 
BTW I paid some attention to being sure the Gown was "big enuf", so that shouldn't have been the cause of the failure.
Also, am running P6,  2 gig ram 3ghz heart on XP, so... >19 hours seems a tad unreasonable.

whenever i have that kind of performance problem with clothes, there's an intersection in the beginning.  you might try tweaking figure scale or weight in the beginning frame, looking at your step offset values, and making sure your cloth settings are OK.  that said, i've never had it delete all my frames, so i'm definitely not familiar with everything that's happening.

Has anyone had any success in clothifying the hip of the V4 Fantasy Dress?  Whenever I try it stretches out between the hip and the knee instead of following the pose.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Looks like DAZ "improved" it.

Did you try to remove the body handles?

I managed to figure it out. The hip clothifies well in the cloth room.

Apparently the problem has to do with the fact that I had used Wardrobe Wizard 2.0 to convert the dress to fit the morphed V4.1 figure, before running it through the cloth room to clothify the hip.  I followed  Phil's video for full body morphs, but some more steps  must be needed or something.

I just did it again, but this time I used Wardrobe Wizard 1 to convert the dress,  and toggled the spherical fall off zones for the hip in order to keep the morphs and body handles (just in case I needed them). After doing that I ran it through the cloth room and the skirt moved properly.

Anyway, I'm glad that the skirt can be clothified! I love the MFD even more since I learned that it can be :)

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

It looks as though the WW2 conversion process has added actors to make the hip conform to leg movements, which you don't want to happen if it's going to be clothified (because the conforming and the dynamic elements will add on to each other). I'm not familiar enough with WW2 to know if there's an option to stop that happening, but there may well be one. You got it figured out in any case, but if anyone else is interested it's worth asking in PhilC's WW forum. He may not see this thread. Those who are comfortable with hacking CR2s can always remove the leg conformers afterwards, of course.

Thanks. I did go and post on Phil's forum and asked if there were other steps needed to work with that dress.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I see it now - I thought I'd been to Phil's place today, but I hadn't. :/ I subscribed to that thread so I can see what the answer is.

Okay ... proof positive that ignorance is bliss.  I did this once.  Just took the "skirtbase" and clothified it and it worked perfect.  But since ... I deleted the poser file I'd created because I had re-organized my folders.  Now ... I tried to go back ... (P6, no help from our dear PhilC, who has wonderful stuff by the way) and the sim fails at frame 0.  :(  I'm lost.  Only because it worked perfect the first time I did this scene.  I'm confused, believe me.  I wanted to show it in this thread. 

Boni

Boni

---

"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

Well,  now I really did it.  Hmmm.  Hip section only.  and just simulate.  Nothing too complex.  had a corrupt file before.  Now it works.  *shrug*, I dunno. 

This of course is just a still.  But it worked.

Boni

---

"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

I asked PhilC about this and he looked at the .cr2 file and saw that I had used "Normal Clothing" when doing the conversion. He said that even though it is a dress, to use "Skirt", so I did, and now it works fine.  Apparently it has something to do with how the leg joints are set up for normal clothing vs skirts and dresses.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Still loving this feature!!

PS:  Covering up my blunder of pressing some wrong keys and having posted in the wrong thread instead of the one intended :)

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Works for me. :-) 

Quote - Still loving this feature!!

PS:  Covering up my blunder of pressing some wrong keys and having posted in the wrong thread instead of the one intended :)

Glad you did this was a great read, this was from long before I started seriously playing with poser.

Quote -

I upgraded to Poser 6 in December just so I could do this!!! Had it not been for this thread and the fact that the MFD can be used in the Poser 6 cloth room, but not the Poser 5 one, I wouldn't have upgraded.

Here are 3 results using the MFD in the P6 cloth room. I'm thrilled that my favourite dress has so much more versatility and can actually look natural. I've never been able to get results like these until I took the dress into the cloth room.

Message edited on: 02/05/2006 17:06

You have them sitting on chairs.  That's fantastic work!

I haven't been able to manage it.

Cheers

---

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Start with the chair positioned well away from the figure at frame 1 of your cloth simulation animation, then bring it into the correct position as the figure sits down - that gives the cloth time to react properly. Don't bring it too close to the figure during the simulation or you may risk stalling it. You can adjust the chair slightly before rendering.

And also remember to include the chair in the "collide against" list of course. 

Quote - Start with the chair positioned well away from the figure at frame 1 of your cloth simulation animation, then bring it into the correct position as the figure sits down - that gives the cloth time to react properly. Don't bring it too close to the figure during the simulation or you may risk stalling it. You can adjust the chair slightly before rendering.

And also remember to include the chair in the "collide against" list of course. 

Thanks.

Actually, my goal is to clothify the Valiant Tabard for James 6 and have him sitting on a horse.  same concept I'm hoping.

---

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Quote -

Actually, my goal is to clothify the Valiant Tabard for James 6 and have him sitting on a horse.  same concept I'm hoping.

I would think so.  But that's way too advanced for me, so I can't help you there.  But others who are more advanced in the cloth room and with animation will be able to.  I strictly do basic cloth room stuff,  lol

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

anyone managed to turn MFD sleeves dynamic? I'm trying to do an elf portrait and that flowy sleeves would look nice, but I'm also having a hard time with it... any ideas?

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Greetings from Brazil! Looking for compatriots who also love creating in Poser!

The MFD's skirt works so well as dynamic cloth because it's all one body part, and because it has no conforming actors associated with it. The same does not apply to the sleeves, unfortunately. If you're willing to do some remodelling and CR2 hacking it should be possible - but (at least without a lot of work) you'd lose the morphability of the sleeves. It may be simpler to make the whole dress into dynamic cloth.

Edited to add: is an elf portrait anything like a self portrait? :lol:

Thanks for the enlightment, EnglishBob, I'm actually planning on using the sleeves as divided objs, exported and re-imported as obj only format. it's actually going very well if I may say, but It is kinda complicated doing it...

no, its an elf portrait, spelled like that, like the lovely one from the The Lord of the Rings and a hole lore of fantasy characters...

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Greetings from Brazil! Looking for compatriots who also love creating in Poser!

 I'm trying to follow along in this, since I have a scene where I need the skirt of the MFD to clothify in order  to look right.

I know in another tutorial, it said something about exporting conforming clothing as a wavefront obj and then bringing it back, do you not have to do that with the MFD?    Seems my calculation wants to run forever and I only have 30 frames.  I was labeling hip and all the skirt parts in the field to clothify.   

No need to export as an .obj file, since you aren't making the whole mesh dynamic.

At Frame 1 of the simulation, make sure that there is nothing poking through the mesh of the dress, that's one of the leading causes of problems with the cloth room.

________________________________________________________________

If you're joking that's just cruel, but if you're being sarcastic, that's even worse.

the project was going fine, but something that irritates me most is that mesh selection tool from Poser... that's just TERRIBLE! I wished to select the upper part of the sleeves only, to change the dynamic group into contrained, to avoid the sleeves to 'fall down' on the model, but that hedious selecting tool doesn't let me! it justs select some of the polygons form the back side and then nothing else!

Any tips for the selection tool to make it work in a decent way?

thanks guys!

ps: I know I can use the material selection, but in MFD the sleeves have the same material zone all over, and all I wish to select is the first two or three sets of polygons in the shoulders... very specific, I know... killing my brains... XD~

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Greetings from Brazil! Looking for compatriots who also love creating in Poser!

yeah, that's no fun to use.  you can either just work with it and keep changing your view and selecting vertices until you have the right vertices selected, or you can create a new group in a modeling app that has better vertice selection (which is pretty much every modeling app).

What version of Poser and what OS are you using. I am on a Mac and in the early versions of P8, I had to change to Sreed from OpenGL and then it worked as expected. Then you just changed back. Right click on the view port brings up the options to do this. Curious if this helps.

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

Cobaltdream: any ideas? I also use ZBrush (sometimes...) think I can creat a new group selection in it and them export this obj to poser with the right group? I'm kinda noob in real modeling, so I guess I could use some help ^^'...

Gritcher: I'm on a PC and Poser8, I already use OpenGL. Nothing changed.

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Greetings from Brazil! Looking for compatriots who also love creating in Poser!

i've never used Zbrush and don't have it (yet!) so i can't really advise on that.  i use Blender, and i know i can use it to make and export new polygroups.  i'd personally do it as a new material, and that way i know it wouldn't mess up the rigging.  so if i were you, i'd probably:

• import the original object into Zbrush
• select the new areas, make a new material zone,
• export the new object
• edit the cr2 with Cr2Editor to point at the new object (simpler than it sounds)
• save the new cr2 as a copy
• load the new version of the dress
• add the new material to the constrained group in the Cloth room

you don't even need to do the cr2 part if you're making the whole dress dynamic rather than a dynamic/conforming hybrid.

OOOOOOoooh astonished where do I get this cr2editor? please make it free, please god

I will try doing that in ZBrush (I really just mold stuff there, never really dealed eith material zones and others). I will also do it with the sleeves zeroed in position, but morphed with that widecuffs morph, and I liked the idea of using this cr2 editor to create a new character with the hybrid sleeves... maybe you could mail me some specific info about this process via site mail, Cobaltdream.

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Greetings from Brazil! Looking for compatriots who also love creating in Poser!

sorry about the typos; typing at very low-light environment...

ps: any way to keep the previous morphs in the sleeves AFTER the conversion? curiosity kills

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Greetings from Brazil! Looking for compatriots who also love creating in Poser!

oh!  yes, Cr2 Editor is free.  it's actually kind of an old prorgam, and i think there are more robust but commercial applications that do the same thing.  and i'm pretty sure that you need a version before the last one because the version after it messes up the cr2 files it saves.  i think you want version 1.5 vs. 1.6. 

probably the best place to get it is English Bob's listing of utilities.  http://www.morphography.uk.vu/dlutility.html

i really don't know enough about the process  Zbrush needs or precisely what you want to do to give you much more specific information.  i know in Blender how to select faces and give them a new material zone, but i have no clue how to do it in Zbrush.  and i never got good at creating hybrids, because i never could get the Poser grouping tool to work across groups. 

which previous morphs?  yours or the MFD's?  so if it's the original MFD morphs, that's the point of just changing the obj file the cr2 is pointing at (and saving as a new .cr2 - never overwrite your original file).  it has all the same properties as the old figure but with an altered source.  so as long as you know how to make morph targets in Zbrush, it shouldn't be a problem.  basically, you keep the vertex count and order straight, and you're good to go.  if it's your own morphs you make in Zbrush, then the point of this excercise is that you can make any change in Zbrush you want to the obj that doesn't affect vertex count or order, export the new object, and use it as the source for your new cr2.  morph it, add material zones, even remap it as you please.

when i first started following this thread i was really into the idea of hybrids.  now i don't have much use for conforming clothes at all.  maybe i'll have learned so much about dynamic clothes in a year or three that i'll have hit their limitations, but right now there's just no benefit to conforming clothes for me.  i've barely begun to understand how dynamic clothes really work.  i mean, there's definitely features i wish i could request for Poser 9.  but there's just so much i haven't really tried, and so much that's generally seen as a difficulty when in actuality it's simply a limit of cloth.    so i can't really advise you on working with hybrids because i can use them well enough but have only theoretical knowledge about making them.

Yes the cr2 editor is free.  You can find it at this link (and others).    www.morphography.uk.vu/dlutility.html

Oops cross post. :blushing:

news from the wip: well, I just gave up trying to make a hybrid with mfd and decided go all way around with dyn clothing. Exported the obj with the sleeves morphs and the skirt morph and re-imported as a obj, parented and saved it in the props library. After that I went to the lovely cloth room and did what I have to do...

here is the result (sorry for the wide blank space and the already textured and haired model, I only render after most of the things are set up)

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Greetings from Brazil! Looking for compatriots who also love creating in Poser!

I wanted the sleeves more heavy, with a heavier feel... don't know how to accomplish that... any ideas?

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Greetings from Brazil! Looking for compatriots who also love creating in Poser!

sure.  make a new dynamic group for the sleeves, give them a higher density.  but that would be kind of weird, considering the fabric is transparent.  you might want to give them longer to drape.  since the only time they'd be floating around her arms like that is if she's underwater or in outer space,  the transition to her pose probably shouldn't begin until they're fully draped.

hmm okay, I never really used the drapes in my dynamic clothes, so I don't quite understant it's use... so, before I set up her pose transition I should drape her sleeves? how many drapes and how many frames you think would be good?

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Greetings from Brazil! Looking for compatriots who also love creating in Poser!

hmmm.  i have to think about how to explain this in a way that isn't as cyclically defined as the awful manual.  draping is there to let clothes respond to gravity that don't load that way initially.   there's lots of reasons to model something this way, like wanting the model to drape nicely over things other than your main figure or the ground.  it's easy to build realistic draping against your figure and the ground into the model, but you couldn't really anticipate anything else in a scene. 

in this case, my guess is that you're starting with a T-pose and the dress kind of floating around the figure.  if i'm right, both the skirt and the sleeves aren't starting from strictly a realistic position.  well, that means any sim you do from that position won't be realistic.  so using some frames to drape the dress properly on the figure and in the scene will make the sim more realistic.

how many totally depends on the cloth settings you used, how the dress fits initially, and the results you want.  i couldn't even begin to guess just by seeing your render.  i'd say start at 20 frames, and adjust by 10 frames from that result.  unless that first test totally isn't enough, and then i'd say try another 20 frames from that.  if 40 frames of draping doesn't get you anywhere close to what you want, i'd say look at your cloth density and air resistance. 

let me check if I got right:

• first 20 frames - model in T pose (or zero pose, I suppose) with, I don't know, maybe 2 or 3 drapes?
• last 10 frames with the transition to zero pose to final pose

right? gonna try

ps: I invented another zero pose (and saved the obj with that pose too). both arms are down, instead in that T form... gonna trywith this pose...

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Greetings from Brazil! Looking for compatriots who also love creating in Poser!

actually, the REAL problem between me and drapes is that my computer freezes with them... just that...

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Greetings from Brazil! Looking for compatriots who also love creating in Poser!

anyone can help? my computer freezes very hard with drape frames...

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Greetings from Brazil! Looking for compatriots who also love creating in Poser!

Try this as a test. Start in T pose, no pre-drape frames. On frame 15 is you final pose position and then let it drape or catch up to the characters movement in frames 15 to 30.

Everybody has different ways to get to the end result. When I decide to use pre-drapping it is normally around 5 frames and no more then 10. After the final pose (in the example above at frame 15) I typically have 15 frames more to let the cloth drape or catch up unless I want the character to look like they are in motion, like running or walking. That said I have gone as high as 60 and made the final pose at 40, especially when there is furniture involved that the cloth collides against.

What you will quickly learn about the cloth room is there are no firm rules. There are guidelines. But there is also a lot of trial and error. But loose clothes in the cloth room in my mind looks tons better compared to conforming.

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

Anyone already looked at this tutorial? it's gigantic but it's amazingly instructive!
www.renderosity.com/mod/tutorial/index.php

I reccomend! Helped me a lot

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Greetings from Brazil! Looking for compatriots who also love creating in Poser!

you just set the drape frames in the Simulation Settings.  there's no need to change the animation unless you actually want the reaction to movement to change.  otherwise you just add or subtract frames from the drape and add or subtract frames from the sim itself.

i personally disagree with grichter's no initial drape advice in this instance  because your sleeves are floating a lot.  not only will that mess up your final appearance, it means that the sleeves aren't even in a realistic position as the figure moves, so the final position can't be right.  it can settle, but not from the right position.  also, when English Bob had this same problem on some clothes he actually made himself, he had to make a new dynamic group on the sleeves after trying to drape over 100 frames.  that said, even 100 frames isn't a very long time. Poser's default frame rate is 30 frames per second, which makes 100 frames just 3.3 seconds.

i mention why i disagree in this particular case because he's totally right about guidelines.  using the cloth room is just like rigging and morphing conforming clothes in that it's all about understanding your specific situation.  you can't just look at a tutorial that tells how and get how to make dynamic clothes well.  you really need a lot of why and what if and different settings.  i've never seen a tutorial for the cloth room like that. all the tutorial's i've seen are great for using existing dynamic clothes, which is very helpful but i never really needed that.  iirc, after reading a Serge Marck tutorial, it was all very straight forward and i never knew what people had problems with until the past few days of answering questions.   for instance, it never would have occurred to me that you would try to manually insert draping frames rather than just using the Simulation Settings.  but then, when i'm learning something, i tend to poke at everything until it breaks (which usually doesn't take long).

i haven't seen that tutorial before, but i've seen lots of others that cover the exact same material.  though i think its unique advice on draping is what the "Flow with the Pose" tutorial at RDNA is about.  basically, if you just want a still pose, i think (though i haven't tried this in ages) you can just set your pose in the first frame and when you do your sim toggle it to "From Zero Pose."  i'd have to look up how that works and the limitations again.  anyway,  it's the implications of cloth dynamics that people - including myself- don't get, and i've never seen a tutorial go over that.

The reason I wanted the drape frames off was because their computer was locking up and it appeared they did not have any at rest frames after the character was in the actual pose. Plus 20 drape frames seemed a little high to me. If they were locking up lets get it unlocked and then sneak up on what was causing it to lock up. Wasn't disagreeing on the need for drape frames. Just trying to see if the number of drape frames might have an issue if their was intersecting cloth, which can bring the cloth room to it's knees. Trying to get a person that is new to the cloth room to change to wire frame and inspect the cloth object for intersecting cloth could scare them off from finding out just how great the cloth room is.

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

still testing all you guys said, posted the tutorial because I tought it was very nice and enlightening... I finally understood why to drape a cloth before the simulation, and my pc stoped freezing when I did the things in the proper manner! yaysies!

I'm no advanced user or modeler, just feeding my curiosity

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Greetings from Brazil! Looking for compatriots who also love creating in Poser!

Quote - The reason I wanted the drape frames off was because their computer was locking up and it appeared they did not have any at rest frames after the character was in the actual pose. Plus 20 drape frames seemed a little high to me. If they were locking up lets get it unlocked and then sneak up on what was causing it to lock up. Wasn't disagreeing on the need for drape frames. Just trying to see if the number of drape frames might have an issue if their was intersecting cloth, which can bring the cloth room to it's knees. Trying to get a person that is new to the cloth room to change to wire frame and inspect the cloth object for intersecting cloth could scare them off from finding out just how great the cloth room is.

oh, i can understand that, and i'm not trying to say to ignore your advice.  just because i wouldn't handle it that way doesn't mean i'm right and you're wrong.  i'm more saying: i wouldn't make that same decision and this is why.  mainly because i think making those decisions are the difficult part of making cloth.

just to give further info behind my reasoning (as you did): catsy_lu didn't mention just drape frames in the Simulation Settings (i'm assuming that's where the 2 or 3 drapes came in?), but as part of the animation.  so draping didn't sound like the problem, and it sounded like it was being done oddly.  also, i don't remember ever having draping cause a freeze but the simulation have no problem (though maybe my memory is faulty). 

in my experience with cloth sims, both in Poser and in Blender, 20 frames is actually pretty small for full settling.   i'm basing that at least in part having fairly recently made a dress with hanging sleeves.  and i think it's really important to talk about it any any case, because i find it useful to think in seconds more than just  frames.  2/3 of a second isn't a very long time (generally speaking), and you were suggesting a time of less than a quarter of a second (just translating 7 frames).  something with a high density might fall really fast, but without knowing the settings ...  i figured if 20 was too much, catsy_lu could dial back 10, as i suggested.

but then, i've also never had to go into wireframe to check intersecting cloth like that.  i guess i just stay away from clothifying items that complex. i've also made the MFD dynamic before, but i can't remember much about working with it since it was so long ago.   i know it didn't have a problem converting, though,  so i was pretty sure that wasn't the case either. 

basically, unless i'm reading it wrong, your reaction (which was sound) was to simplify by removing variables from the process.  my reaction was to simplify by addressing what seemed to be misunderstandings of the process in general and providing information that's been working for me.

Yes the last part was my aim. Make it simple and then add to what works on their system until they figure out what was causing the lock up.

And regarding drape frames there is a product in the store that uses transmaps to convert the MFD to a long top designed to be worn over pants call singles. Yet with the hip morphs you can't get it to look right. In the 1st frame with V4 in JeanZ and the MFD looking like a long sweater you can pose and just drape with selecting the the hip as the choregraphed group and unless the character is say sitting, you don't need to do an actual cloth sim, just about 10 or so drape frames and that is it. Not something you would find in the product or a tut :)

Plus the cloth room presets a freebee from Phil C found here

http://www.philc.net/freestuff_archive.php

work really well. Plus if you find a set of settings you like for a type of cloth, just copy one of the scripts and edit to your desired settings.

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

 Okay, finally got a cloth simulation that is doing basically what I want it to do.  The only problem is the bunching around the abdomen area.    I have hips, thighs, legs and feet as the collision areas on V4.   I'm wondering if it isn't because the clothify area is just the hips down? 

if you've just clothfied the skirt and not the top, that's the reason.  the flexible cloth of the skirt is meeting the inflexible and unmoving top.  joining conforming and dynamic is like attaching cloth to armor.  it's fine as long as the situation creates a natural flow, but it becomes problematic as soon as you find a position where the whole piece would move in a way differently than originally modeled.

 I tried clothifying the abdomen and chest of the dress, and the result was worse.  Maybe if I made it all part of a dymanic group?

hmmm.

first of all i don't understand what you mean if you say you've clothified them and they aren't part of a dynamic group.  i probably should have been more specific.  it's not just that a part conforms, it's also that as another group it's like a whole other piece.   i haven't so far had a problem with multiple dynamic groups.  that said, i only have one piece with a figure sitting in a dynamic dress (i don't do sitting poses much).  that's my image "The Nightcap."  looking at it, i got a fold at the waist, which i'd expect, but not like yours.  it was a while ago, and not my own dynamic dress, so i'm sure i'd use different settings today. 

it's really hard for me to say what to do without doing testing myself, and right now i'm doing a few different things and not likely to have time to play with the MFD in the near future.  that said, my general advice would be to work the two cases separately: hybrid and full dynamic.  simplify as much as possible, as grichter would advise.  so do the hybrid as close to instructions here as possible (i'm guessing you already have), and then do a completely separate sim with a MFD that's just a single dynamic group.  and try different dynamic settings.  you can do a separate test a lot of different ways (from two different PZ3 files to a single file with two dresses that you can toggle for visibility).  but the main advice i'd have is to isolate what youre varying. don't make lots of different hybrids or lots of groups that all clothify separately.  first make sure you've got cloth settings that work for that position and the fabric you want to simulate.

 Oh, sorry, didn't mean to confuse.  Those parts are dynamic, I just meant make the whole thing that way, but then I think I'd lose the conforming fit of the top and I like that.  I may just go with the first result and postwork the fold out.    It would not be hard to do.  

Trying a couple of other ideas, but like you I have other projects buzzing around in my head, so the cloth room may be a gradual learning experience for me.  Thank you for the help.  :)

Can we get a side view image. and maybe back a little. Is the right leg crossed over the left? If so it looks like the knee of the right leg is higher then the thigh-hip joint. IE it's down hill from the knee to the thigh-hip joint. Unlike when a lady sits down in a long dress and smooths it out under her, the cloth could be being pulled back towards the tight hip area which is causing the bunching because it is lower then the knee

Not at home where I have my setting notes...but a couple of things I would try if you can't get the cloth settings right.. If possible rotate the character and chair in X forward. Then when the sim is finished rotate back. Goal is to make the cloth run downhill and pull the bunching out. Or if the leg is crossed. Run a number of frames with the legs uncrossed to get the flow like you want and down to the shoes-floor and then near the end of the number of frames you have created cross the legs. Shortens the downhill back flow into the characters lap. Use the grouping tool and assign a new group above the knee an make the cloth stiffer (again not near poser) and leave the cloth below the knees as is or raise it's density to have more of a gravity effect and pull the cloth down which would lessen the bunching.

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

 One knee is higher than the other, but not crossed, the legs are slanted to the character's right side and the ankles cross.     

So you think I should have a few transitory poses?  Set them a few frames apart?  Just clarifying.

 When you say rotate in x forward, do you mean character tilted head first?  or feet first?  like lying on her back a bit?

just to say a couple of things:

in my experience, clothes that fit tightly much don't change when you make them dynamic.  for instance, the dynamic Starlight gown at RDNA fits over the chest like that (i really don't like that, actually), and no amount of letting it drape gave me any different results.  i'm working with a dynamic catsuit right now.  there's also all sorts of things you can do with dynamic settings. 

i'm still not sure from what you're saying if the dynamic part is singular or multiple.  if you just clothifiy each portion of a conforming outfit, you get bad results at the joins.  you probably know better than that, but i did that once upon a time, so i figured i'd just confirm.

what grichter is saying, if i'm not mistaken, is that if you make a figure sit in the regular fashion, you have someone who sits down without adjusting their clothing.  women generally smooth their skirt when they sit to deal with bunching at the waist.  choreographed groups can duplicate tugging at stuff, but that seems like a lot of trouble.  the easiest way to simulate the effect is to let gravity do the work. so if you get her into sitting position tilted forward, that's like tugging it forward.  then you can tilt her back into final position.

Quote - just to say a couple of things:

in my experience, clothes that fit tightly much don't change when you make them dynamic.  for instance, the dynamic Starlight gown at RDNA fits over the chest like that (i really don't like that, actually), and no amount of letting it drape gave me any different results.  i'm working with a dynamic catsuit right now.  there's also all sorts of things you can do with dynamic settings. 

i'm still not sure from what you're saying if the dynamic part is singular or multiple.  if you just clothifiy each portion of a conforming outfit, you get bad results at the joins.  you probably know better than that, but i did that once upon a time, so i figured i'd just confirm.

what grichter is saying, if i'm not mistaken, is that if you make a figure sit in the regular fashion, you have someone who sits down without adjusting their clothing.  women generally smooth their skirt when they sit to deal with bunching at the waist.  choreographed groups can duplicate tugging at stuff, but that seems like a lot of trouble.  the easiest way to simulate the effect is to let gravity do the work. so if you get her into sitting position tilted forward, that's like tugging it forward.  then you can tilt her back into final position.

Ahh, no I didn't know better than that.   I think I may end up playing with this for awhile.  I have to work tomorrow, so may not be until the next day until I can do more.   I'll try this again, and probably will end up making a new pose to use, since this one is tilted back somewhat.  

What you say makes sense.  I'll give it a try.  This is a picture I've wanted to do for awhile and the first scene got corrupted, which gives me a chance to try to do the dress right this time.

Thank you guys.  I'll update this soon.

DA

Just keep in mind unlike real life, the cloth room only knows gravity there are no hands that can reach into the scene and push and pull the cloth and smooth it out. Granted there are wind forces you can add.

Don't be afraid to move your character or rotate it to get the cloth to look like you want

Don't be afraid to add primitives to the scene and collide against them. For example a lady navigating a set of stairs in a long loose around the feet dress, would reach down and grab part of the skirt and lift it up. Something you probably could never get right with conforming cloth. You can use a primitive prop to push-hold the dress up to the characters hand. Use your imagination. I use primitives frequently to push cloth around to how I want it. Then just make them invisible for rendering.

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

grichter: have you done anything with choreographed groups and handles?  i was reading a tutorial on how to wrap a sheet around a figure using a few choreographed vertices, and it makes me think that it might be possible to tug on pieces of cloth with primitives that are parents to the choreographed vertices.

No never tried that. Have to run out for a bit. But later today hopefully will finish up the project I am doing and then plan to spend a ton of time in the cloth room as Cloth Room Assisitant found at CP was updated to supposedly work on my mac.

The prev that I am, I have a conforming bathrobe I converted from M3 to M4 as a prop so I can run it thru the cloth room and  do a Playboy Bunny scene! :biggrin:

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

Quote - grichter: have you done anything with choreographed groups and handles?  i was reading a tutorial on how to wrap a sheet around a figure using a few choreographed vertices, and it makes me think that it might be possible to tug on pieces of cloth with primitives that are parents to the choreographed vertices.

Yes it is possible to use Props to move and tug pieces of cloth.
I have used a torus prop to do some neat things.

Clothifying MFD!  can this work for P5 Judy?

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do you mean can you make the MFD work on Judy?  if you can get it to fit her with no poke through, yes.

Quote - Clothifying MFD!  can this work for P5 Judy?

Main benefit of mfd is that it’s a versatile long dress with lots of morphs so you easy make a tight fitting conforming long dress and then clothify the skirt to make it look natural.

Yes you could probably use poses and resizing to get it to fit, then save it as a prop and use it as a full dynamic dress for other figures, however it’s other dresses who should be easier to work with, so you would do it for the textures.