The entire site has been running horribly this week (even more than usual if you can believe it), and with the advent of the wonderful and insightful new decision made to ban any nude promo images in the MP of the Girl and Aiko, I would say all those image swaps aren't helping much at all.
For every related product in the MP, there will probably be one or two promo images changed out. That should add to the bottleneck quite nicely, great move!

Who is going to purchase something they can't see anyway?? I find this completely counter productive to the site's performance (which is already hampered and dragging like a wounded slug), and it certainly serves no marketing benefit that I can possibly think of.

There is certainly a high degree of sickness involved if you feel that looking at a 3D character with a skin texture is lewd and indecent. Do monkeys wear pants and is that acceptable? When we die, do we leave the planet wearing at least underwear? And were we born into this world with overalls on? I think this entire issue is pure psychosis and shames the art world in every imaginable degree, not to mention completely revoking any or all artistic license.

I'm also terribly disappointed and outraged in the way DarkWing-Zero and Darkscorn and Soulsilver were treated here in the MP, and the site just might speed up quite a bit when all the high-end merchants end up at DAZ! How many major merchants have left this site this year already? I'd say someone is blowing the horn behind the scenes, and it resembles something from an early Yoko Ono album the way things are going around here lately. Laffs

Darkscorn and Soulsilver's store had the most insanely detailed items I have seen anywhere, and their future looked quite promising here. Not to mention, Darkscorn's gallery is now deleted and it's not because she was trying to save server space, either. I'll look forward to purchasing their items at DAZ like the rest who have fled here recently. Cha-Ching!

I hate to sound like an ingrate or pessimist, but I see the near future of this site falling into a downward spiral if some major changes aren't implemented. And that doesn't include ridiculous new rulesets like removing promo images for products of details customers need to view before purchasing. I wouldn't be surprised if the merchants who deal in this 'troubling and incredibly shameful' category were to pull out and form a line like angry ants to other sites. Come on, we [barely] stomached the clothed faerie/cherub thing awhile back (another artistic and social pitfall of this place), but this is really going too far in my opinion.

Given this mentality, I will follow my favorite merchants creating the quality goods I desire wherever they go, and I won't be buying any Girl or Aiko products here ever...I promise. And for those merchants who choose to stay and do battle, I only hope you are wearing a life jacket to tread above water when the ship sinks!

Please, we have begged, we have pleaded. Some rationality and common sense would be more than appreciated at this time. Let's try to fix things that are broken for awhile, eh?

Incredibly Irritated

-Shardz-

Message edited on: 12/29/2005 23:36

Quote - Yoko Ono album

Runs from the room screaming and holding up a cross

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

uh Daz doesn't allow any nude shots in promo or in galleries. what's the complaint again?

The Power of Christ Compels You! The Power of Christ Compels You! (sorry. bad joke. only 'deja v. I feel I have seen this thread before. resurrecting and resurrecting again. another eternal thread...) Yoko Ono album? Ugghh...

CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"

First they came...

First they came for the faeries and children
and I did not speak out
because only perverts render nude fearies and children

Then they came for the G.I.R.L.
and I did not speak out
because her breasts are way too large

Then they came for AIKO
and I did not speak out
because anime doesnt look realistic

Then they came for Michael
and I didnt speak out
because only the gay would like to see a nude man

Then they came for Vicky
and I didnt speak out
because she doesnt look "average"

Then they wanted to sell Renda 2
but they couldnt,
because there was no one left to buy her.

^-^

stahlratte

Paypal and non-ridiculous credit card processors are the enemy here, I think. In order to do business, I'm sure they have to bend over to their demands for a non-adult store. The bigger you get, the more attention you recieve from outside sources who do not understand the subculture nor do they care to. What's worse? Asking these companies to lighten up would probably just make things worse, drawing attention to the site and putting it under even more scrutiny and next thing you know all renders are Vicky3 in a temple in a burka with a sword. I think what is hard to take for most people is the utter lack of "Hey, we think this sucks too, but our hands our tied by forces more powerful than us. We're just trying to stay in operation here." Instead, and this has always been the case at this site under all of it's regimes, it's kind of the cold and indifferent "Here's the deal, Love it...we do." attitude. It strikes me as dishonest and impersonal, and as a member here for over...8 years?...I've always wanted to feel like this was a community that cares about each other from the top down. It's the sort of "You can't handle the truth" approach that just kills people's love for this place. -WTB (Who has survived worse changes than this)

So is this why 3/4ths of Baron Vlad Harkonnen's store disappeared overnight? I only discovered it last night, and was all "switch money to paypal", went to clear out my wishlist today, and poof... GONE! cry

Stahlratte: that's a very good reworking of Bertold Brecht! But I don't see people banning RMP in a kind of purchase strike. Those days are over. Besides: there are many itelms to be found here that are of good quality and that cannot be found elsewhere. This said: No one tells anyone what to buy. It's a choice you make for yourself, no? And if you don't like, don't buy. And if you don't buy, the income of the merchant and dealer gets less. And if the income gets less, they might change their minds. But, as said: Daz is not an arguement as they have been selling skins without showing what you get for a long, long time. It's always the others who force the innocent dealer to behave like that, be it Paypal or whatever. But that is not my (or your?) problem. Don't like? Don't buy. Even conservative extreme right is sensible to that.

What an excellent day for an exorcism, Karras

CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"

This thread is the first I've heard of a lot of stuff vanishing from different merchants. It's not Renderosity News. It doesn't seem to have been mentioned in any other forums. There's no sign of a change of policy, or of any reminder of existing policy, which is something I'd expect the lawyers to insist on if Renderosity were suddenly kicking stuff off the site. All I'll say is, if a Merchant just ups and leaves without a word, that's bad business on their part, and if Renderosity insists on a no-notice departure it only makes sense as the last move in a serious dispute.

[Checks Baron Vlad's stuff] Some of the items still in store have on-page references to items no longer present. Perhaps there has been some fault in the Renderosity system, rather than a deliberate removal?

Why not just do what Daz did & ban ALL nude renders in the MP & galleries? I don't hear/read any complaints over there about the policy of no nudes. Anyway it's only perverts who would wish to look at naked 3d models in the first place.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

All I'll say is, if I'm a merchant and I'm not happy here, there are other sites. If I'm not happy with the lack of nudity here, there are other sites where you can show everything with details

CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"

Does anyone complain that DAZ doesn't show all of you what you buy? NOPE. So why should we complain that it happens here? My opinion might be my own, though :) I was never interested in how the privates look on the textures I buy simply because rendering pictures with them showing is so totally not my cup of tea. Clarification!: I do not mind nudity in the galleries. Noone depicted the beauty of a human body like Bourgereau, for example, and Adam on the ceiling of the Sistine chapel is totally naked too. I mind depicting nude not as an artistic statement but rather as the inability to clothe the model, which is really hard to do sometimes...

kitty5
#rendergods

www.Bucketload3d.com - where cool freebies are ~(==^..^)

Does anyone complain that DAZ doesn't show all of you what you buy? NOPE. But DAZ have a 30 day money back guarantee. So if the parts they don't show you are crap, you have the option of returning. R'osity's stance on such matters is far less customer-friendly. From here, I can now only buy textures from merchants whose quality I can trust, sight unseen. That's a short list.

Quote - I was never interested in how the privates look on the textures I buy simply because rendering pictures with them showing is so totally not my cup of tea

Ditto :) I have done nudes, but I pose them where there is a leg or an arm covering their breasts and genitals. And my position on that isn't because I'm a prude because I'm not; I'm a "clothing optional" person (aka nudist). However, for art I prefer things be "eluded to".

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

And ther irony of it all? PayPal and ebay are owned by a religious group who are promoting the no-nudes policy. Yet, you can go on ebay, buy porn and pay for it with PayPal. This is a great contemporary definition of hypocrisy!

I was looking at Baron Vlad's stuff on Content Paradise until about five minutes ago, when it looks as though their caching expired. They seem to sell Renderosity items. Looking through the range while I could, it's not obviously nudity that's the issue. Some items still available show similar skin area to items withdrawn. It looks as though some of the accessories may have been significant, or maybe the word "pin-up" is OK while "fetish" isn't. But it still could be, lcaking any other info, the Renderosity server system suffering a mammary reorientation challenge.

Yep, no sense jumping to conclusions before you know all of the facts :)

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Personally, I'm dead tired of hearing this theocon BS blamed on the credit card companies. "Adult" sites all over the web take credit cards. "Adult" bookstores and nude bars and the brothels in Nevada take credit cards. My local newsstand with its closed off back corner of "adult" magazines takes credit cards. You can use your credit card to subscribe to Hustler. DAZ doesn't do nudes because it's owned by a members of fundamentalist theocracy. I expect that R'osity has the same explanation. I quit buying here years ago. And I have pretty much stopped spending money at DAZ, just like I boycott WalMart. If you need things so badly you are willing to deal with the real perverts -- folks who want pants on dogs and think Mr Rogers went to Hell because he wasn't tough on gays -- then I feel sorry for you. Get a life, folks. M

"Banned Merchants?" What bannings ?

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

AFAIK, the "No-Nude-Promos" is/was limited to the 1st preview image, and the product thumbnail. The second and third images could contain nudity, and I've seen several character packs within the past month done that way. I won't get into the nudity does not equal porn debate, because the people who need to hear it won't/can't hear it.

________________________________________________________________

If you're joking that's just cruel, but if you're being sarcastic, that's even worse.

Bilbo Bannings?

CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"

I don't see anything wrong with the ban. It only relates to the FIRST promo and the thumbnail, plus any externally linked -- and visible -- images. You can still see how the details of the texture look like on breasts and genitalia on the 2nd and 3rd promo. It's up to a merchant to provide that there. The 'every ban is bad' attitude is common, but unnecessary in this case.

This discussion is interesting got made me wondering...

Here's two questions. If a product is a complex "Body-suit" made from displacement maps and textures would the character still be blindly considered nude? Could you cover up the product and still sell it?

Message edited on: 12/30/2005 07:10

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

.

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

Hablo español

Ich spreche Deutsch

Je parle français

Mi parolas Esperanton. Ĉu vi?

Who is going to purchase something they can't see anyway?? ahem,if you buy a character package at DAZ you will not see it nude there on ANY MODEL. and before someone says, "well,I know buying from daz that the texture is of more quality" just remember alot,if not most of the character packs that are sold there come from the SAME MERCHANTS that formerly sold here.so I ask WHAT IS the diffence? -3dz

Funny YouTube video of the week - Bu De Bu Ai

Just to clarify. DarkWing-Zero has certainly not been banned. She took the decision to move her store to Daz, I expect because the market conditions there were more favourable. Darkscorn and Soulsilver banning has no relation whatsoever to the nudity rules. And these rules - that there should be no nudity in the first page promo or thumbnail - have been in force for all products uploaded since Nov 23rd 2004. The only change now is that we're applying the rule to the older products still in the marketplace - something that the majority of merchants have consistently asked for. "Why can't I show my V3's bum on page 1 when Merchant X has it, just because he uploaded his product a year ago?" RMP management agreed, and hence the announcement was made over 2 weeks ago, in the merchant forum and via email broadcast, that merchants were required to amend their promos and thumbnails to bring them in line with current rules. At the same time, clarification was given on the list of figures considered to be "underage", i.e. that they should not be shown nude in Marketplace promos. Again, this isn't really a change - previously the method was for a merchant to ask "Does this look too young" and generally be answered, "Yes". We're not saying these characters can't be sold, we're just asking merchants to show them in a bikini (the same way that Daz does for ALL figures.) The nudity policy in the galleries has not changed, nor has it for freestuff. Hope this settles a few concerns. Karen Poser Moderator & Marketplace Staff

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

Some of NemainRavenwood's products are also gone. Yay.. :-(

I thought the rule was already being applied to everything from day one anyway?

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

@karen I just wish users who had these merchants products on their wishlists or carts could be warned before the items were gone.. Taking Darkwing-Zero as an example, i was ready to buy some of her products today because it was said they would be gone tomorrow. Oh well..life goes on and a new year is coming. :-)

Quote - Taking Darkwing-Zero as an example, i was ready to buy some of her products today because it was said they would be gone tomorrow.

She left a message in the market place forum stating that people can contact her in PM and make private arrangements with her to obtain what they had wanted.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Hi Lucifer (wow, that sounds odd. The nuns at my old convent school would just drop dead to hear me say that, LOL) No, when the new guidelines were brought out last year, we agreed at that time that products already in the MP could remain as they were, although they wouldn't be eligible for featuring in the Newsletter unless they were updated. At that time, this was a popular decision, but in the last few months merchant opinion has swung around - probably partly because we've just all got used to NOT having boobs in our faces when we open the Marketplace, and going back to older products was like being slapped in the face by mammaries! Hence, merchants have now been asked to update their older products to fall in line with the guidelines, so that we will have a consistent approach through the marketplace. Much easier and simpler than remembering "Oh yes, it's okay for him because he uploaded that on 20th November 2004, but it's not okay for her because she uploaded that on 25th November." Karen

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

Guida, you could always contact DW-Z and ask her about a private arrangement to sell.
I'm not aware of NemainRavenwood moving her store but if she was partnered with DW-Z on some products then those would be removed unless DW-Z transferred ownership. Edit: Acadia beat me to it LOL

Message edited on: 12/30/2005 07:52

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

I don't really see what all the fuss is about :)

If people want to sell in a store (any store, be it virtual or not), they have to conform to the rules of that store/mall or whatever.

Those merchants that leave here will turn up at another store selling their wares, because that's what they do; sell poser items to those of us who aren't talented enough to make them ourselves. It's money for them to pay their bills, or even just to pay for their poser habit. Most aren't just going to up and walk away from that :)

I'm not concerned because I know that in a few weeks this will all be sorted out and it will be business as usual and in a few months time it will all be water under the bridge and so life goes on.

Life's just too short and stressful enough without getting bent out of shape over virtual pixels in a virtual store, be it this one or any other.

Message edited on: 12/30/2005 07:55

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Quote - Hi Lucifer (wow, that sounds odd. The nuns at my old convent school would just drop dead to hear me say that, LOL)

I was saying we need an exorcism...

CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"

Quote - unless DW-Z transferred ownership

She said she did.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I need a young priest and an old priest..;)
I've seen plenty of stuff for Poser offered at 'sites that dare not speak their name..;), but hey, it's their server, so they get to make the rules..;) there's nothing stopping someone from making another site (I'm sure Bondware would be happy to sell or lease their software) to anyone who wants to make a site can do so..

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

Thanks Acadia and karen, i'll check that :-)

In that case I don't know with NemainRavenwood, you'd have to ask her directly. Casette: You bring the holy water, I have the bell, book and candle ;-)

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

I have the cross!!! I was running around holding it up when someone mentioned Yoko Ono on another thread!!!!

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

This "nude" thing is sooooo typical american.... You can't say fuck on tv, do they have the most nude bars in the world. In the states one can blow off somebody's head with a 44 magnum. That you can buy on every street corner. And when lucky they show it realtime on 99 tv networks. Then people say Shame Shame for showing that on tv... 90% of the viewers is waithing for things like that. In otherwords: If you like to sell a character here or at Daz and you can't show the private part so be it i don't think is realy a' must to show that is it!? and otherwise that merchant can always put up a link to a private site where he can show those parts. Its called the world wide web, you can sell your work in 1000's of places. And when working with a site like renderosity you got to work with there rule's When you don't like it go somewhere else or start your own Store and make the rules... Just my 2 Euro cent's

Not used anymore

[Darkscorn and Soulsilver banning has no relation whatsoever to the nudity rules] So Karen... why were they banned or is there something you're not telling us about other rules...?

I'm a merchant, and 95% of the other merchants do not agree with this either. It's all BS!!! Say it long enought and loud enought like karen did and ppl will believe you. "62,400 repetitions equals one truth" But we're stuck here because of the SIZE of the MP. Here I may make 500 sales a year. At the other sites (except maby Daz) it may only be 3.

Vicky3 in a temple in a burka with a sword WTB, LOL

bkmrk

"This "nude" thing is sooooo typical american...." you know, I usually stay out of these type of threads but I am really getting tired of these type of statements. This is not just "typical of America" As you put it. I am living in a country right now that if you scratch in the wrong place it will get you arrested. The market place here as well as ALL the Japanese sites and other MPs are banned to me for the nudity issue and language issues. Crocheting sites are actually banned because the word crochet to them = crotch. I could keep going on but it's suffice to say it is not just an "American" thing...

In a world filled with causes for worry and anxiety...
we need the peace of God standing guard over our hearts and minds.
 
Jerry McCant

What country kayjay? Not even suprised.

i want to go on record as saying that deciding on the age of a toon and an anime depiction of a female is absolutely absurd. especially a toon with the default chest / waist ratio of girl. on the subject of daz and nudity- actually that's why i don't buy textures at daz unless they're by artists who have proven their quality with multiple products in market places that do allow full nudity (e.g., morris, lobo75). or if it's in the platinum club. i figure for two bucks, i can't go wrong.

Hi RGUS, So Karen... why were they banned or is there something you're not telling us about other rules...? C'mon man, that's confidential. You could always go and ask them though, if they're hanging out somewhere else.

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

Hanging around here long enough I think I can guess what got them banned. I can be completely wrong, but banned, store closed and gallery deleted ... there is not much that gets you such a treatment. Regarding nudity on promos: a work around could be that the merchants set up a website for their products with nude renders of a texture set and/or character and offer links to that website on request. They could mention that on the product page. Putting a link to a website that shows nudity on models that are underage (LOL) is probably not ok. But I can see nothing wrong when such a link would be send on request.

Message edited on: 12/30/2005 12:15

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

Nudity is alowed on the second and third promos, just not on the first one or the thumbnail. And I don't see why people are getting so upset, this policy has been in effect for over a year.

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

Hablo español

Ich spreche Deutsch

Je parle français

Mi parolas Esperanton. Ĉu vi?

I actually meant you could set up an extra website for characters and texture sets for figures like Aiko, Laura or Maddie that are not allowed to show nude at all. I know that you can use nudity on promo 2 and 3 but I think not for the figures I mentioned before. Or am I wrong with this?

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

m_m: it's not about the 2nd & 3rd promo issue. it's about declaring girl and aiko underage so that no images of them nude are allowed anywhere on the site, including 2nd and 3rd promos.

Tu salus fidelium Salve sancta parens In christo credentium Virgo labe carens Salve virgo virginum Salve sancta parens

Stupidity also evolves!

these are the figures that cannot be nude at all on any promos in the market, Aiko Hiro Koshini Ichiro Krystal LaRoo Miki Mill Kids Rosy Cheeks Lina The Girl Terai Yuki E J

Funny YouTube video of the week - Bu De Bu Ai

Hi cobaltdream: it's about declaring girl and aiko underage so that no images of them nude are allowed anywhere on the site That's incorrect. As stated earlier, the gallery policy hasn't changed. We're making judgement calls on individual cases, just as we always have done. Hi Maus, I know that you can use nudity on promo 2 and 3 but I think not for the figures I mentioned before. Or am I wrong with this? That's correct. Figures with the appearance of being underage need to be shown with a bikini at minimum. Karen

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

Ew a Yoko Ono album. I heard something on the radio that made me gag... as to how to really offend someone... and that was to have Fran Drescher from the nanny sing YokoOno songs. That visual is just wrong. Crawls into a corner and shakes. As to what was going on here with the banned merchants, etc. This is the first time I heard of it. If I can't find something I want to buy on this site, I just go someplace else etc. If rosity want's to get rid of something for whatever reason.... well it is their site. They can do what they want. Just don't shoot yourself in the foot in the process.

Message edited on: 12/30/2005 12:44

Yoko Ono's early albums "Fly," "Approximately Infinite Universe," and "Plastic Ono Band" are superb examples of rock experimentation of that era. Long before people like Laurie Anderson and Brian Eno were praised for merging the art and music scenes, Yoko had done it. During the original punk rock era, many artists credited Ono for her inspirational role. I realize that this is exceedingly off topic but maybe the exorcism needed here is a banishment of the demon of ignorance and anti-avantgardism. It never ceases to amaze me how much this alleged artist's community hates art. :-) I'd appreciate knowing if these policies are REALLY a matter of being in PayPal's good graces as some apologists would have it, or if it's actually a decision that was made for other reasons more proximate to the staff's values and vision of the site. Does anyone on the staff who actually knows care to elucidate?

OT..SORRY: hey Karen,if your still watching,check im's please :0) -3dz

Funny YouTube video of the week - Bu De Bu Ai

Yoko Ono= art? I'm sorry, those three words in the same sentance just seem like some kind of oxymoron. Yoko Ono's voice= fingernails scratching a blackboard That's more appropriate. Bartworx, as for your two euro cents. That's some fairly broad generalizations you make. Maybe you should quit watching recycled TV shows and take a trip over here. America is a broad canvas, don't try to paint it with a single brush. -jay

karen1573- thanks for the clarification, but that actually makes it a bit more confusing to me. but is 3dzone correct too (about all the other meshes)? and if girl and aiko have been declared "underage" meshes, exactly what does that imply? and can you explain anything about the ok for the galleries but not ok for the marketplace policy (if that is in fact true)? so are you basically making all toons except the neftoons underage? and is there a place i can go to where these changes were announced?

I see the proeblem with America as being that they make all this fuss about nudity, as seems to be the case here at Renderosity, yet at the same time it's one of the biggest sources of explicit pornography on the planet. And the basic principle that Renderosity are following is not something I find objectionable. It's just that the specific seem to be getting a little ridiculous. I don't know if that list which The3DZone posted is correct -- I'd like to see some sort of official source for that -- but when it includes Miki and EJ I start to doubt it. I reckon that Miki is one of the most realistically shaped adult human bodies available for Poser. And if that model is on some sort of "underage" list used by Renderosity, it starts to look insane.

Hi colbaltdream, the list 3DZ posted is a preliminary list of meshes automatically considered "underage" in terms of marketplace promos. It's possible Neftoon Gal/Pal will also be added; I will bring it to Admin's attention. As I said before, the gallery policy hasn't changed. Judgement calls are made by the staff on individual cases. These changes were announced in the Merchant forum. As they don't affect those not brokering here, a site-wide announcement was not thought necessary. ("Hey shoppers! From now on, you'll need to go to page 2 to get your daily dose of boobs!") Hope this helps. Karen

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

" these are the figures that cannot be nude at all on any promos in the market, Aiko, Hiro, Koshini, Ichiro, Krystal, LaRoo, Miki, Mill Kids, Rosy Cheeks Lina, The Girl, Terai Yuki, E J" SWEET. I guess I can upload my Katie the Crack Whore set?

um, this isn't just a "get your daily dose of boobs" issue. you may feel that, as this is the second comment of that type you've made. for me, this is completely relevant since as a customer i won't be seeing any complete promos for textures of my two favorite characters: Miki and Aiko. which means unless it's by one of a few merchants i already trust, i won't be buying. and i stand by my statement that declaring toon and anime (and apparently, asian) figures "underage" is really silly. i wasn't suggesting to add the neftoon gal/pal, but of course you all must do as you see fit (no sarcasm intended). as for people commenting on how these threads keep coming up, it seems natural to me since the rules keep changing.

Oo thanks Starkdog, guess we forgot the Poser native people. So you better put that product on hold ;-) Khai - Miki is on the list as considered appearing too young to appear nude in MP promos. You may consider that Vicky looks the same age, but the Admin team don't. Cobaltdream, right, I see what you mean. If it's really important to you to see the nipples and genital area prior to purchase, you could always contact the merchant to ask if they have full-body promos available, or just stick with trusted merchants as you said you do at Daz. Hope this helps Karen :-)

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

Hi Khai! Sorry if you feel my attitude was snotty. I prefer to think of it as factual. Would adding some more smilies help? You want the criteria? You would have to ask Admin, I don't know that. store@renderosity.com Hope this helps. Karen

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

Attached Link: http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/lasik/

"Khai - Miki is on the list as considered appearing too young to appear nude in MP promos. You may consider that Vicky looks the same age, but the Admin team don't."

Well, if DAZ can do a promotion to donate to a local charity, perhaps Renderosity can set up a similar promotion. However, the Admin team will win this prize. http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/lasik/

Message edited on: 12/30/2005 16:37

LOL Starkdog!

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"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

No probs :-)

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

"Khai - Miki is on the list as considered appearing too young to appear nude in MP promos. You may consider that Vicky looks the same age, but the Admin team don't." I hypothesise that the Admin team were bottle-fed as babies. Boys, only a very few real women have a shape like Vicky. Your image of the adult female seems to be constructed with the scalpel, corsetry, or Photoshop Quick, somebody submit a Japanese Granny texture/bumpmap set for Miki.

karen1573 - i do appreciate your clarification. that said, pm'ing every artist in the marketplace isn't my idea of an easy shopping time. if you can communicate to the Admin team the request that they actually announce major changes like this in this (Poser, in case this gets moved for some reason) forum, that would be appreciated. when you say the galleries are the same as they always were- how are we to understand that? you say it goes by judgment- the same judgment that put default miki and default aiko as underage. since most people don't see miki that way and tend to render her without any more than expression and posing morphs, i could see this having a substantial impact on the galleries. also, aiko (and anime doll and maya doll, or have the Admins forgotten them as well?) at default is standard anime and frequently used for characters from age 18 to 30 or so. simply put, this classification as underage is relevant to anyone who might render these characters nude and has never thought of them as underage and therefore needing adjustment or covering. i certainly think this decision relevant to understanding the parameters of the judgment of underage (unless the Admins don't have a say in the gallery content)and to knowing what is necessary to avoid T.O.S. violation. also, since you imply it's largely unnecessary, egregious and somehow uncommon (possibly lewd?) to want to see all of a texture when buying it, why not just eliminate the nude promos altogether? if they're that irrelevant, wouldn't that make everyone else more comfortable?

well, as my opinion doesn't matter anyway ...here it is... this whole entire deal with these cartoons not being able to be shown without some sort of cover is plainly insane, as is the nudity on the first image tos ... as is the DAZ stance on nudity. Somewhere in the bible it mentioned that man was created as the image and likeness of God. How can you be so ashamed of seeing the naked human body? Of course, its the site owners perogative to run it as they think it should be, so the whole entire debate is moot. and if its the way they are setting it up and you don't like it, start your own site or go to one that is more to your liking . If Rendo starts losing business, maybe they will change their TOS...maybe not ... I really don't give a rats one way or another ...I'll spend my money somewhere else or not at all ... maybe go out to dinner with the wife instead.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

Actually Karen that didn't help, it came across as patronizing and condescending. This site has an unfortunate history of the staff treating the membership with that sort of tone. Believe me, it affects marketplace sales.

Hi cobaltdream, The Marketplace and Galleries are run separately, by different teams. My fellow mods and coords are responsible for day-to-day decision making on gallery images. Hence, I can say that this issue will not be impacting the galleries at this time. (I'm gonna put that "at this time" in there, because if things change a couple of years down the line, I don't want anyone holding me to something I had no right to guarantee!) As ever, if you're concerned prior to posting about a character's perceived age (or other TOS issue) please feel free to shoot any of us a line and we'll discuss it in the staff room and let you know if it's okay, or if not okay, try and suggest a way of bringing it within TOS. (We really prefer doing this than removing pics from the gallery!) also, since you imply it's largely unnecessary, egregious and somehow uncommon (possibly lewd?) to want to see all of a texture when buying it, why not just eliminate the nude promos altogether? Sorry if you felt I implied that; it wasn't the intention. Just trying to find a possible solution for you on these particular characters. There's no plan to eliminate nudity from promos 2 and 3. I'm not privy to the admin meetings and whatnot, but I'd imagine the projected possible payoff in terms of customers gained would be outweighed in customers lost due to (as you point out) not being confident in quality if they can't see the full tex. By the way and just to add. As an MP tester, I always check that nipples and genital details (if present) are present and correct. If you were to ever buy a texture from here which had, I don't know, misplaced nipples or something, you'd be within your rights to ask for a refund. Hope it helps. Karen :-)

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"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

Actually Karen that didn't help, it came across as patronizing and condescending. Sorry to hear that. Can you be more specific about which bit? (as so far I've ended all my posts with that, as usual) Karen :-)

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"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

OK let's just agree that you were joking instead of making an issue of it. :-) Do you know if the policies regarding RMP nudity, specifically the alleged ban on nude images of certain meshes like Aiko 3.0 because of apparent age are actually related to PayPal's rules, or is it a policy choice separate from that?

Message edited for grammar on: 12/30/2005 18:24

Message edited on: 12/30/2005 18:26

Okey-doke :-) ...related to PayPal's rules, or is it a policy choice separate from that? I don't know - as I said a bit earlier, I'm not privy to the decision-making process. I will flag this question for their attention and let you know as soon as poss. Karen :-)

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"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

I can tell you from the merchants forum that they didnt give them any criteria either It was based on and I quot if the character appeared too young to the majority of the Admin team. Now think there were many merchants that thought they were covered because they redid their thumbs and first promo pics only to get this list of unacceptable nude characters dumped on them the 27th with no warning or time to adjust. Renderosity is throwing away good and profitable products with promo images that in no way look like nude children simply because of a list that many are finding questionable. Because many of the merchants have decided that its just not worth the effort to replace very well thought out and artistically pleasing promo pics (I can tell you its hard to come up with them once let alone twice and on short notice based on the opinions of those who cant tell Jessica Rabbit from Little Orphan Any) Yes many over stylized characters (or Asian characters as well) are going to look young without textures and clothing, heck most of us can make any character look young or old based on our own whims.

Hi xoconostle and others interested, I got an answer from Clint on the "is it paypal's fault" question. Clint says, "It has nothing to do at all with Paypal. Its a business decision that we made to help us expand our market." Hope this answers your question - if you have more specific concerns/queries I am really going to have to direct you to the store@renderosity.com address because it's nearly 1am for me and I'm going to bed ;-) Cheers all Karen :-)

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

Then why not give merchants the option to mark nude promo images the way they are done in the galleries so that customers dont see them if they don't want to? Youre not going to expand in Asin markets if you list anime and Asin characters as underaged.

Well, I can see my self diluted thread sprouted wings overnight and took on several different ideals; some common and endless, and some other interesting points brought up.

I understand that DAZ has never condoned nude promo images, and I don't buy many characters there at all simply because most of my favorite character merchants are here...for the time being. If Renderosity wishes to simply globablly standardize Promo Image #1 and the product thumbnail, fine. Although, when I go to wyrmmaster's gallery, it's wall to wall breasts even in the product thumbs. The man sells boob morphs, that makes sense to me, no complaint.

What I believe I tried to state was that this site has bigger and more pressing issues at hand regarding bandwidth/server problems than to be adding to them by having merchants change these images until these problems are addressed. I don't know about you, but I'm tired of getting 'MySQL has gone away' (and trust me, not far enough) errors every weeknight and then waiting 5 minutes for a page to load on broadband cable.

Given these issues, and perhaps the underscoring tone of ruckus of quite a few merchants here, I'm simply stating we have more problems than 3D bare breast images to deal with, and they need to be the primary focus. If the site crawls down to a snail's pace (or down completely), promo images and the market place are completely rendered useless.

In other words, fix the engine before worrying about the tires. I understand a few weeks ago the ram was doubled in the servers, and from a diagnostic standpoint, this did not change the performance much.

Again, I'm not pointing fingers or assigning blame, but it just seems like another case of trimming the fat on a dead cow. And for the life of me I can't seem to put a finger on this site's priority list - the logic completely eludes me.

Server first, boobs later. I hope that is simple enough. =) Regarding Clint's business model of expanding the market; isn't a half functioning site and a slew of big name merchants leaving the site sort of countering that ideal a bit? And not only have we been losing quality merchants, but we have lost their art in their galleries and no way to even contact them as they have fled in exile. This just doesn't sound right to me and it is indeed creating a bit of a negative buzz on all sides of the fence of consumer and merchant. Not to mention some of us who have been working very hard for months to present a product to this store, but are very reluctant now. I think the model is driving in reverse here. =)

Message edited on: 12/30/2005 19:07

sigh...Look you don't need to wiggle your ding dong to know it's there, Just say nude image mapping to texture and show as much as you can without flashing or mooning everyone and your product should sell ok i think. I mean if i got to see a big blow up of a figures genitals before i purchase it then thats pretty wierd since i can clearly make a good choise without seeing a figure butt nakid.

Also many of you may not know this but alot of women find some of the images offensive to the point that they run rammpent throughout the site where they can't go 2 or 3 pages without having giant boobs jump out at them, you know this makes some women kinda sick of it, I don't think giant boobs are art since a specific part of the anatomy seems to be the main target of interest, same with big giant penises, i don't see how targeting a specific part of someones privates for enlargment art. But that is my opinion and also the opinion of some other people as well so maybe the new rules are good for all of us to work in a cleaner professional inviroment?

Thought i could ask while we're at it.. what happened to the majority of items of Baron Vlad Harkonnen? Was he the subject too of the enforced policy?

@Tucan-Tiki
I'm a woman and i'm not shocked with giant boobs or gigantic penises, and they're not REAL anyway, to each its own though.
On that perspective i could be shocked at the pubescent fairies and pregnant women (yes there are kinks for everything) and loads of blood and mutilated corpses and and and.. (insert endless list here), but i'm not, and i certainly won't judge who is.

To Guida: Great attitude, I enjoyed reading that! I believe in pro-choice very much, and it's too bad the rest of the world doesn't think that way. So far, this month's casualty list includes the following: DarkWing-Zero - (All deleted solo products, going to DAZ) DarkScorn/Soulsilver - (Banned for some lame reason) NemainRavenwood - (Partially deleteded store) Baron Vlad Harkonnen - (Mostly deleted store) I'm upset about all of these for many reasons. 1.) DarkWing-Zero had announced she would be leaving and gave customers a notice her products would be here for one last week ending the 31st. They started disappearing way before this against her wishes and many didn't have a change to get them before they disappear. Very unprofessional of this site to do that. 2.) With Darkscorn/Soulsilver, there was a minor issue with a new pack and a major merchant here, and the site took the side of the Big $$ with no chance to fix the problem. I have the pack as a gift from them and have found no resemblences, but they are the new kids on the block, so... 3.) NemainRavenwood I'm not sure, but this merchant has been at DAZ for quite awhile anyway. Perhaps couldn't login to the site as it's up and down like a yoyo lately. 4.) This really sucks. The BVH stuff I use quite a bit and didn't get a chance to pickup all the V3 stuff I wanted. I also used his store as a reference for my credits list. No warning, no clue, just gone. Sucks! I'm sure this list will grow immensely over time, and if anyone else has any other disbanded merchants to add I'd love to see it. I need to contact them to make arrangements and do my commerce elsewhere apparently. Big pain in the ass, waste of time, and just plain lame. I'm not sure if all this is coincidence or somehow related to site issues or admin relations, but they are dropping like flies so to speak. If it was just some guy selling texture sets for the Freebie Pet Rock I wouldn't care so much, but these merchants and artists I consider to be a great loss to "our" community. I've been modeling my own stuff in Hexagon lately and I'm thinking of just making my own props and clothes for my images, forget this whole thing! Market this! Laffs

Huh? BVH stuff gone? Had some on my wishlist, where to buy now?

Quote - Baron Vlad Harkonnen - (Mostly deleted store)

Deleted or just removed from view pending new images? People are jumping to all kinds of conclusions here. Just sit back, enjoy the new year and see what unfolds. Honestly, it's probably not as bad as so many here are making it out to be. Wait and see what happens, gather the real facts and then state your position. No sense speculating and jumping to all kinds of conclusions.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Well Ive been fighting about this in the merchant forum (well not really fighting... having spirited arguments... since everything has to be so damn politically correct around here) I agree that children shouldnt be shown naked... I HOWEVER DONT AGREE that aiko, hiro and the like can be considered children (and that especially goes for how Dark-Wing Zero creates her characters) Really, the rule irritates me severely, its conforming to a bunch of whiners who cant stand the thought of a naked woman or man, and well, hehee Im a rebel by nature. I totally agree that this isnt artistic freedom. And yanno, it really didnt even affect me... I have none of those characters in my store. But alas, when all is said and done, Rendo will have its way like always. So Im pretty much done fighting or blowing out hot air to a wall. Oh and Shardz... the darkscorn/soulsiver thing was something entirely different. I dunno all the details either tho... still trying to figure that one out. And damn, I had no idea BVH left... he is one of my fave merchants (looking up now at last reply) But his following will follow him no doubt, just like all the other ones that are leaving (or will be)

Oh and ps: Those merchants with partially missing stores prolly have stuff in what is called "Holding" where they dont appear in the store, but theyre still on the server for revising. Just thought Id let everyone know.

Well, thank you, Iggy, for letting us know what a Holding area is here. I thought that was just for legal detainment at the police station. LOL! You know, after 97 responses, it would have been nice for the mods (they are doing a fantastic job, btw, no condemning from me) or someone to come out and explain this to avoid mass boycotting. I have never seen a site with so much tension before and I think it's due to the shroud of mystery and lack of communication in a place where we let our imagination and dreams loose. I can only speak for myself when I say that I pour my heart into what I do, and it's almost like a betrayal to pull up a page with that prop you have had in your list for 6 months for your scene and to see it gone. All I have to say is this; I don't see any of this at DAZ. I will gladly trade in the nipples for a stable marketplace. Perhaps because they have had a steady ruleset from day one and they don't change their minds every week on their TOS. Anything can happen at a drop of a hat here, and some people (like myself) plan scenes; this means characters, props, hair, etc. Some of it I don't have and intend on buying when I'm ready for production of a scene. It really stems down to what someone once said over a year ago here, and I didn't understand exactly what he meant. A merchant had something 'hot' that just went up, and he said, "Get it while you can". Now I know exactly what he meant. There is an Art to communication, and this site suffers from it greatly at times. Rumors fly like angry crows, but I was informed from some merchant friends, and even those 'accused' and have very different stories. But then again, I guess there are two sides to every coin. Even the three sided coins that seem to be dropping like rain around us here. Thank you for clearing this up, Iggy, and I suppose we'll just have to wait and see who shows up in 2006 and where. It's almost like running a Presidential campaign on the consumer side, I can't even imagine what it's like on the merchant side. A little comforting word on the admin's part would be nice to educate us on their part as it seems there are 10 different stories that seem to interact between several merchants. Let's clear the myth and get down to professionalism, Renderosity! This isn't the new Matrix IV movie we are talking about. You know it's getting bad when I start talking about modeling my own clothes and lingerie! I'm crazy enough to do it, too! Laffs

Hiro, Aiko and Terai Yuki "underaged"? Miki? Eternal Judy? The Girl? Hiro, Aiko and TY are stylized manga figures. Miki and EJ are rather obviously adult. The only thing underaged about the Girl is her name. What in the seven names of hell is being used as a guideline here? I can see some of Sarsa/Thorne's stuff for Aiko as being underaged, but Idler's character for Miki? It's obviously not breast size. It's not eye size. What is it? I have no problem with /obviously/ underaged figures being barred from nudity. However, I have a real problem with subjective rules, rather than objective, set down from "on high" - especially when they make piss-all sense.

Oh, and at least Yoko was original, which is more than I can say for a lot of Poser art these days. ;)

LOL!!! Well, maybe our holding area can be considered the same way. Our characters are being held coz of breaking the law. Ann0314 and I have a running joke... everytime a character of ours get held in pending, we say "LET MY PEOPLE GO!!!!" LOL Kinna fits here as well. But all joking aside, yeah, they dont like to explain the merchant side to the people who arent - or maybe its just that theyre too busy in the merchant forum hosing down angry dogs to even get to explain here LOL (myself included) But I digress, it does create confusion and havoc... sales have slowed down for sure (and Im not sure if its coz this or just that everyone is broke from Christmas lol) I totally agree, they change the rules so often here that no one knows whats going to happen tomorrow, or the next day. Kinna makes it hard to plan on staying at Rendo permanently. As for stable... I dont think it will ever be. In the year Ive been a merchant, it has only gotten more crazy. Go fig lol

Blah. I just deleted my current shopping cart, private wishlist, and public wishlist. Most of that in my wishlist are probably gone anyway and I'm not going go through hundreds of them to find out which ones are still available. I was able to get some items before the last "bondage" purge. This time around, there was no warning. The merchants lose out. The customers lose out. Blah. oh yeah. happy new year.

"Yoko Ono= art? I'm sorry, those three words in the same sentance just seem like some kind of oxymoron." Jay7347

Actually, Yoko was an artist long before her career in 'music'. It was at an exhibition of her sculpture that John Lennon met her, after admiring one of her pieces and asking to meet the artist. Anyway thanks, I haven't checked this forum out in a few days and I have laughed so hard I almost dropped my pitchfork in my popcorn. Where do you people get this stuff?

"Then they came for the G.I.R.L.
and I did not speak out
because her breasts are way too large..." Stahlratte

"...renders are Vicky3 in a temple in a burka with a sword." WmTheBloody

"...I boycott WalMart ... who want pants on dogs." mickmca

"In the states one can blow off somebody's head with a 44 magnum. That you can buy on every street corner... Just my 2 Euro cent's." BARTWORX

"Crocheting sites are actually banned because the word crochet to them = crotch."

"Anyway it's only perverts who would wish to look at naked 3d models in the first place." Lucifer_The_Dark

"I hypothesise that the Admin team were bottle-fed as babies." AntoniaTiger

"("Hey shoppers! From now on, you'll need to go to page 2 to get your daily dose of boobs!") Hope this helps." Karen

"BARTWORX , take your 2 cents and stick them up Eurass," America

"Vicky in a Walmart with a .44 magnum and a dog wearing pants. Now THAT'S entertainment, American-style." Qualien

Happy New Year's Eve!

Quote - Yoko was original

And may I add that I hope we never see another so "original" so long as I live!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I am shocked with gigantic penises!

Stupidity also evolves!

Sigh. I was just trying to find something the other day that may actualy be in holding. As a customer I didn't know that. :(
Message edited on: 12/30/2005 23:51

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

Sounds like we are in a giant secret pit stop here. As I said earlier (800 posts ago), they are trying to fix the wheels before the engine with no flag to the driver. Absolutely the most unorganized event I have ever seen on any site to date. I'm really getting irrate with this entire unorganization, and I have more joy fixing my mom's computer.Laffs If this does't get resolved soon, I'm not posting here anymore or purchasing anything from this market, I'm just that tired of this. I won't even go into what SQL stands for, but it's not about efficiency. If I was admin on this site, I would advise all in the general forum of what is transpiring globally. I'll be in the market place in about 2-3 months, but I'm not sure it will be here with all there lame minor problems that stem into anthems due to lack of communication. The Chinese at least had an Abacus...perhaps flash cards are in order here for 2006?

Acadia, I prefer originals like Yoko to cookie-cutter. Of course, I like Diamanda Galas, so what the hell do I know...

Hello DigitalDreamer, Regarding Paypal and Ebay, I have been selling on Ebay since 1999. Yes you can buy porn there, however, it is in the back pages and you cannot pay with Paypal. Not for long anyway. They will cancel your account if caught. I sell video games such as PS2, Sega classics and PC. I had a PS2 game rated 17+ that I sold. The game was originally for sale at BestBuy to any age that had cash. The buyer paid with Paypal shortly after the auction, within hours Ebay cancelled the auction and notified the buyer that the auction was ended for containing adult themes. Buyer contacted me panicking that he had been ripped-off. I told him what happened and sent him the game. Shortly after that they threatened to cancel my Paypal account and I had to agree to a disclaimer to continue selling. The only time Ebay makes that move is when another member complains about your auction. What I showed in the auction was the same box displayed in stores. It had a stripper on the back cover showing a little cleavage. Nothing compared to what I saw up close and personal shopping at OfficeMax yesterday.

ya know... Earlier it was mentioned that the only reason so and so sells here is because here they'll sell 500 copies in a year while elsewhere it'll be 3. An exaggeration, yeah, but they were trying to make a point. Let me make one: Black and Decker sells 30% of its inventory through 1 retailer. The other 70% comes from a lot of other ones. THe one retailer gives them nothing other than shelf space. Many of the others give them shelf space, special featuring, and more. Black and Decker pulled out of that one retailer entirely. Sales only dropped 13%. And rebounded higher the following year. WHen customer's found out where they were. Hmmm. It's also mentioned how lots of people don't agree with the Store Admin team's decision regarding the anime figures. Strenagely enough, when I disagreed withthe store admin team about some things a few years back, I went off and started my own store. Gee -- it's paid for itself and been around for two years and we aren't half bad at all for a site with over 300 products and a hard working team of people. Heck, we're even interested in merchants ourselves, and have an applicationa nd all that cool stuff. And I'll betcha that customers would follow ya if ya went there. www.oddditty.com Or poser pros. Or Faerie wylde. Or Animotions. Or 3D Commune. Or Vanishing Point. Or Polymage. Or... You have more choices, more options, more places than just here. TO heckle Karen for being a messenger (she's only a tester, I note, and not part of the store team) is improper. She was not rude. She may have been a bit stand offish -- sorta like the messenger who notes the soldiers drawing their swords might be. She has, indeed, stated the facts of the matter. THis was announced a while back. They gave the people time. They followed through. Hell, I don't have access to the merchant forum (I'm an admin of a competing brokerage according to Renderosity's store team, and yet despite offering people more features than rosity, I'm not truly competing according to the owner of the company: Rosity logic) and I know that. I'm occasionally asked why I have no new products. Truth is, I have lots of new products. Just none here. And I'm quite happy with the way sales are going. Sixus1 completely pulled out of Renderosity -- they are still around, and doing quite well, I hear. So, Well, I'm sorry, folks. I can understand the frustration and anger of the lack of warning that Renderoisty provided to the customers. But the merchants had warning, and they all have had enough experience to know that dang, but you ain't gonna change their minds once they's decided. Half a store, all of a store, multiple stores. Oh, and it has diddly to do with paypal or the credit card companies. If it did, I surely wouldn't be using it. What it is is that renderosity is cut off from the people who don't know anything about Poser or 3d art becuase, gee, they are on more "porn" lists than anyone would ever dream of -- and almost entirely because of the whole boobies in the face thing. And in the US, being on a porn list means that public services -- libraries and schools, notably -- can't allow access to you if they recieve public funds. Sorta sucks, when the market is growing around you and you can't get a piece of the growth cause your suppliers are getting you cut off from the market. In any case... I don't think that they are underage. I don't allow nudity in the main images, either -- only pop ups. I also don't do a lot of things that are "common practice" -- all becuase I disagree with them. But disagreeing with someone doesn't mean they are wrong. It just means I disagree. Go on, have your September at Christmas time. (dang, Karen -- couldn't they have picked a better time to do this than the two weeks that everyone is doing something other than hanging out at rendo? LOL)

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

ynsaen: a very nicely written and factual message, and I agree with a lot of your points. I would also like to wish Karen and all the mods here a very happy New Year's, and they have been doing a fabulous job here on this site. It's no easy task.

I propose we stop this thread, please for now. And just let us give thanks we are alive and to celebrate the holiday with our loved ones and friends. It was indeed bad timing to bring all this up, and it's like a car dealership weeding out through the inventory, but I would rather continue this later in respect to the mods, their families, friends, and all of ours as well.

Karen, or whomever; can you please lock this thread as I started it, and I wish you and all the wonderful people who given so many countless hours to this forum thanks. Have a wonderful New Year and God bless you all for caring. Let's start a new year and grow together as a community!

Happy New Year and my very best!

-Shardz-

Message edited on: 12/31/2005 02:18

Khai, /that/ was impolite.

ynsaen: a very nicely written and factual message, and I agree with a lot of your points. I would also like to wish Karen and all the mods here a very happy New Year's, and they have been doing a fabulous job here on this site. It's no easy task. I propose we stop this thread, please for now. And just let us give thanks we are alive and to celebrate the holiday with our loved ones and friends. It was indeed bad timing to bring all this up, and it's like a car dealership weeding out through the inventory, but I would rather continue this later in respect to the mods, their families, friends, and all of ours as well. Karen, or whomever; can you please lock this thread as I started it, and I wish you and all the wonderful people who given so many countless hours to this forum thanks. Have a wonderful New Year and God bless you all for caring. Let's start a new year and grow together as a community! Happy New Year and my very best! -Shardz- Message edited on: 12/31/2005 02:18

Quote - Let's start a new year and grow together as a community!

Amen to that! :) Message edited on: 12/31/2005 02:25

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

And let the boobs grow too!

Stupidity also evolves!

71. Re: Banned Merchants? Deleted Galleries? Agonizingly Slow Site? Yep! by karen1573 on 12/30/05 16:25 Oo thanks Starkdog, guess we forgot the Poser native people. So you better put that product on hold ;-) Khai - Miki is on the list as considered appearing too young to appear nude in MP promos. You may consider that Vicky looks the same age, but the Admin team don't. Cobaltdream, right, I see what you mean. If it's really important to you to see the nipples and genital area prior to purchase, you could always contact the merchant to ask if they have full-body promos available, or just stick with trusted merchants as you said you do at Daz. Hope this helps Karen :-) 72. Re: Banned Merchants? Deleted Galleries? Agonizingly Slow Site? Yep! by Khai on 12/30/05 16:28 "Khai - Miki is on the list as considered appearing too young to appear nude in MP promos. You may consider that Vicky looks the same age, but the Admin team don't." sorry. not an answer. critera please. and I am not the only person that questions the judgement on this figure. ps. lose the snotty attitude please. 73. Re: Banned Merchants? Deleted Galleries? Agonizingly Slow Site? Yep! by karen1573 on 12/30/05 16:35 Hi Khai! Sorry if you feel my attitude was snotty. I prefer to think of it as factual. Would adding some more smilies help? You want the criteria? You would have to ask Admin, I don't know that. store@renderosity.com Hope this helps. Karen *********************************************************** hmmmm. yep, we disagree on what rudeness is. Good to see we're still getting along :D a happy new year's to all, and to all a good night!

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Quote - Rowan? sorry old chap, but that was only meant for 1 person, ynsaen.

Then perhaps you should have sent it to that person in PM so it was "for their eyes only"? Message edited on: 12/31/2005 03:06

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Miki underage? OK, well we now have official confirmation that the idiots are NOT running the asylum because that goes beyond mere lunacy. Now we are in the realm of the late Vincent "the Chin" Gigante, where the depraved mimic the insane in an attempt at gaining respect. Whatever, their site, their rules, yada, yada... Why the feckless incrementalism though? If the ultimate goal is to create a site that the Christian Coalition will approve of, a sanitized, Giulianized, soulless cash cow of a strip mall for all those federally funded library browsers who want to brave the FBI taps to spend their cash here...Why the half-measures? Why pretend that "art" has anything to do with anything or that "community" is anything more than a convenient purchasing demographic? Why try to eke out the last little measure of income from all the seamy dross holding you back from the promised land of overflowing PayPal coffers, and squeaky clean families with 2.5 children just waiting to melt their plastic here once the titties are well and truly banished to the outer darkness? Make up your minds and stop this inane and irritating fence straddling. As a wise man once said, the only thing in the middle of the road is a yellow stripe and dead armadillos.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

I think it's just easier to quit... I'm sorry fo going against the flow. I'll shut up and be a good little doormat from now on. just don't complain in the future. becuase I will come along and say 'Told you so'....

Khai, why not just wait and see what happens? By then things will have settled down, changes will have been made. Then decide if it's a bad thing and voice your opinion if you still feel the same way. Sometimes change is a good thing. We may not always like it, and some of us are down right resistant to it, but sometimes it's a good thing. Give it some time and see :)

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Renderosity is extremely fortunate that it is an American and not European company. With Miki clearly being an adult yet banned as, in someone's opinion, being underage for nude apearances, yet V3 being clearly adult adn not banned, Rosity would face a huge racial discrimination case in Europe on the grounds that they are not treating 2 different racial groups equally. Incidentally, I have come across no eprson of Asian origin who considers Miki to be any othar than an adult. Perhaps before taking such a patronising approach, Rosity should consult the ethnic group concerned. And in European Law, whether it is deliberate racism or ignorance of racial differences make no difference. And if a merchant could show that their sales had suffered as a result of the ill-informed ban, Rosity would also be liable for loss fo earning and/or restraint of trade. Law aside, it shows that as far as Rosity admin is concerned, age is dictated by the size of a woman's breasts.

DigitalDreamer,

Which cracks me up, because I had trouble finding brassieres in my size when I was sixteen. (And I'm /so/ not a chap - just in case this post left /any/ doubts.)

Message edited on: 12/31/2005 05:39

Well, folks, I know we all love a great discussion, but, as the author of the thread, Shardz has requested it locked. Happy New Year! Morriganshadow Poser Moderator

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