profotograf opened this issue on Jan 01, 2006 · 25 posts
profotograf posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 9:13 AM
(in a prior thread, my site was listed based on options for poser vendors to sell their products where they were not considered appropriate for Renderosity and other sites.. this is my response, which for some reason didn't post in the thread:) Ok, I am honoured that my site made the list of adult sites as an option to sell products. MalePoserotica will have a store soon in 2006, and will sell products that in the USA are considered "not-appropriate" based on the controlling elements that be in Utah (PayPal, EBay, Visa and other banking entities) which along with US Laws and the pressure on other US-based 3D sites have forced them to take the actions they must in order to remain "within the law". We are located in Germany, where people are of legal age at 16, where no one carries guns, and where you must be 18 to drive a car. Where you go to university sometimes until you are 27, and you are required to think. Amazingly, here in Germany, because of the pressures on the people due to the 2nd World War aftermath, racism and nationalism have been made taboo, and wasting time wondering if a man has a penis or a woman has breasts or a vagina is considered a ridiculous waste of time. Realism is realism and Barbie and Ken are not realistic. Protection of children is of utmost importance around the world, I will support that 100%, but the definition of a child is not a 17 year old 2 hours before their 18th birthday, or a 21 year old who "looks" underaged. Law Enforcement in the USA makes money imprisoning people since the prisons are mostly private industries and each arrest brings money to the state offices. As most Americans are afraid of taboo subjects and the grey line between was is right and wrong is unclear until the police are knocking on your door, most are terrified of getting in trouble. I know this for a fact, as I as a photographer have had to help Americans in the USA prove ages of some of my models, in which the US District Attorneys claimed to be "underaged" when in fact they were over 22 years of age. Alot of this paranoia is unwarranted and has gotten out of hand and what amazes me is that the US Legal System sees 3D Figures as being "abused" or "molested" people. There is a precedence case in the USA where a man who made Poser images using Poser 4 with the MilKids and V3 (Granny with Grandkids) doing some naughty stuff was charged and indicted for "child molestation" on several counts, and is now sitting in a state penitentiary for crimes that were originally written for REAL human beings, and REAL people, and he is in protective custody fearing for his life, because he was convicted of a REAL crime against the MilBoys with V3 -- 3D Mesh... I am not sure where the line must be drawn, however, being in Europe, our thinking is different and the laws here are different. People look younger than Americans in some cases, our laws are more interested in capturing people who hurt REAL flesh-and-blood people, and in stopping real crime, not creating virtual reality crimes. In Europe we are allowed to have people wearing leather outfits, male figures which have the Satanica_Inc gens or the InsomniaWorks gens. Its all normal. Now, before you all attack me for my statements of truthfulness which I can provide proof for... Please realize that the United States of America is not the center of the known universe, and unfortunately although every seems to think so, they do not own the Internet or run it. However, those of us who do run websites must be considerate of those of our users who DO live in the USA, and live under their RULES, and we must protect them from their own legal system, and keep them from getting into trouble. As webmaster of MalePoserotica, I keep my site's TOS at the age of 18, although our legal age limit here is 16. I don't want any of my American users to get into trouble. However, my new online store, will have those things that other sites are not allowed to sell, or things they cannot sell due to PayPal or US Banking restrictions on nudity etc, so hopefully we can be a haven for those modelers and brokers who wish to safely sell their products and create new ones for the Poser figures. My TOS is also quite clear as to what is allowed. And I think Renderosity and other sites are doing what they have to, to keep legal and safe and to keep their users safe in the United States -- Which is where those sites are based. Gotta see it from the other side, if they break the US Laws just because you don't realize what kind of threat and pressure they are under legally -- then you won't have these great places to go to online anymore. So support them for their efforts to remain online and if you need another option to selling your things, and they are legal here where my servers are located, then simply PM me either here or on my site, and lets talk. Its at least an option. Happy New Year everyone, be safe and have a nice 2006. Antonio Rodriguez Webmaster MalePoserotica
Greetings from Germany
ProFotograf
My
PoserAddicts
infinity10 posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 9:22 AM
Go for it, Antonio ! ;) infinity10 a.k.a ibr_remote
Eternal Hobbyist
wheatpenny posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 9:30 AM Site Admin
Most american prisons are state-owned. there are only a few private ones.
Jeff
Renderosity Senior Moderator
Hablo español
Ich spreche Deutsch
Je parle français
Mi parolas Esperanton. Ĉu vi?
originalkitten posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 9:44 AM
This world is becoming too politically correct. Well said Antonio. I just wish there was an payment scheme like paypal that allowed you to purchase "adult" items. Unfortunately I dont have access to a visa and because I am in England we dont have gift visas yet therefore I have to rely on Paypal. Good luck with your store though!
"I didn't lose my mind, it was mine to give away"
wrpspeed posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 10:02 AM
you've probabably hit the nail on the head with the sad demise of the united states. i can see the middle ages coming back soon. its is just a matter of time before the church and state roll out the racks and thumb screws.
infinity10 posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 10:05 AM
Re: buying and selling restrictions It is more expensive, but surely one may use inter-bank wire transfers instead of plastic money or PayPal. Alternatively, do a counter-trade type swap between friendly and trustworthy shoppers ( Party A pays for Party B in one way, and Party B pays for Party A in another. Settle the nett difference somehow.) Think about it. This situation arises among the buying community which WANTS to pay, rather than go seek out pirated goods for free or at dirt cheap prices.
Eternal Hobbyist
wheatpenny posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 10:14 AM Site Admin
because I am in England we dont have gift visas yet therefore I have to rely on Paypal. <<
Do they have prepaid debit cards there? Here in the US you can buy them at stores like Walgreen's, Rite-Aid, etc. They're a Visa or Mastercard that are good for anywhere from $20 to $500 and are refillable. They are accepted anywhere thast takes Visa and Mastercard. That's what I use to pay for all my online purchases.
Message edited on: 01/01/2006 10:14
Jeff
Renderosity Senior Moderator
Hablo español
Ich spreche Deutsch
Je parle français
Mi parolas Esperanton. Ĉu vi?
kawecki posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 10:14 AM
"and you are required to think. " Scary, this must be dreadful!
Stupidity also evolves!
Angel1 posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 10:14 AM
originalkitten posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 10:17 AM
Nope we dont even get that here...hubby would prefer that too as it would be direct payment instead of.."oh there is 15 coming out of the account next week" lol... we only just started to get where you input ur PIN number instead of signing for your purchase. I first saw that when I went to the States 3 years ago and its only come into use here properly within the last 6mths....so probably within the next decade we will get the prepaid stuff lol
"I didn't lose my mind, it was mine to give away"
profotograf posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 10:21 AM
Well, like I said in the main message, I do not want to start flame wars here, I only wanted to make it clear that here where I live, in Germany (Europe) the rules for selling are different from those in the United States. I did live in the United States a long time ago, and do know a bit of what I am talking about, and can prove everything I say. I learned that it is important to be up front and honest at all times, and don't want to be flamed for being that. PayPal is one of the most widely used purchasing methods for many people from the United States and Europe. Many poser people I know told me that if I didn't have PayPal for my store they couldn't buy anything from me, no matter how great the stuff was that I was selling. This is a bit odd to me, considering that alot of people use their credit cards to fill their PayPal accounts, so why not use the card directly? But its not my place to figure out how and why people bank the way they do. PayPal and EBay control much of the financial world in the background and set the rules for banking internationally as well. Visa has recently set rules for "adult products" and many "adult" sites have been killed on the web via the Visa decision. Considering that "sex sells" and "religion" doesn't sell anything -- I get confused as to how they think they are going to stay financially alive in the future. But that's their decision. However, I cannot use PayPal, and I can only sell my products via either money transfer, credit cards and instant transactions. I have about 20 European banks which are more than happy to handle my transactions, and they only care that I am selling binary things via download. What they are doesn't interest them at all... It basically comes down to their cut in the sales. Thats business. I'm looking for vendors who want to relax and sell their stuff that they cannot sell here, and I MUST STATE -- FOR THE RECORD -- I will not be any competition to Renderosity -- in fact, I have been supporting Renderosity vendors for the past 2 years by linking their stores and products from my site, for people who are looking for cool stuff that they can use for their "male themed" renders. Without asking for a thing in return. I like the community we have and have been trying to give back to it in a big way for a long time. Hope that now I can do that. Greetings, and Happy New Year, Antonio
Greetings from Germany
ProFotograf
My
PoserAddicts
bantha posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 10:22 AM
By the way: Child pornography is prohibited here in Germany as well. Even owning such pictures, even if they are pure renderworks, is illegal. But pictures of naked children are usually not concidered to be pornographic. Only if the pictured actions are clearly sexual, such pictures are prohibited. So the usual product showcase picture would be legal here even with "underaged" models.
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but that is not what ships are built for.
Sail out to sea and do new things.
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kawecki posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 10:33 AM
You can count me in as a vendor. Save Miki from La Bastilla, Viva la Revolution
Stupidity also evolves!
originalkitten posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 10:38 AM
I dont have a credit card at all. I cant get one. I dont get enough cash. Paypal takes direct payment from my bank account. My bank account doesnt even have a debit card as I am on disability for my sick 10 year old and I dont get enough to enable one. Therefore my only available way of purchasing poser stuff is through paypal or a direct debit set up with my bank personally...but as most dont deal with UK banks then this is not an option.
"I didn't lose my mind, it was mine to give away"
Jules53757 posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 10:44 AM
On the other hand side Nazis and their symbols fortunately are strictly forbidden in Germany and so these idiot have a lot of their Websites located in the States, where this seems to be a part of the fundamental rights.
Ulli
"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!"
kawecki posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 10:46 AM
Attached Link: http://www.xoom.com
You can use xoom, accept PayPal and makes deposit in bank account.Stupidity also evolves!
originalkitten posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 10:48 AM
I have no idea how that works but will look into it..thank you :O)
"I didn't lose my mind, it was mine to give away"
raven posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 10:59 AM
Attached Link: http://www.splashplastic.com
Over here in England there is a type of pre-paid cc available, it's called SplashPlastic. It doesn't seem to be very widespread, but I had a form to get one in a magazine one time, and you can get one at the link. There is a list of on-line retailers. I don't know how difficult it would be to get an on-line store added to their list as a place to purchase from using SplashPlastic.
originalkitten posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 11:11 AM
oh that looks cool.....i hope it catches on
"I didn't lose my mind, it was mine to give away"
lemur01 posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 11:32 AM
"Build it and they will come" Jack
Marque posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 12:01 PM
Give me a break...I'm so sick of people slamming the US. I live here...I LIKE living here and would NOT live anywhere else. I have visited many countries and although they were great I still choose to live here. I have never thought of the US as better or worse than any other country and would never slam another country the way we get slammed by too many folks who come in here. Sorry but just getting tired of it. We have our rules and regs and you in other countries have yours. For those of you who live here and think it's so bad..leave..no one is holding you here against your will. Now flame on if you like, I'm sure there are those of you who will. Proud to be an American, Marque
lemur01 posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 12:05 PM
Ok my last post was just a bookmark, but I went away thinking about whats happening here or could be. Tired of the puritanical and over zealous practices employed by Rosity and the like, someone opens a site in Europe that provides a more liberal environment for its merchants and customers. Those customers who specialise in nudes and want to see a texture in its entirety before buying start going there, so do others who just want a look-see what it is all about. Pretty soon vendors are offering sex related products at this new site too. Now everyone knows that sex sells so it isnt long before vendors who just produce ordinary wares realise that this is where the customers are heading so they want to sell there too. Before you know it, a whole new site has sprung up where ordinary poser customers can get their fix but with one BIG difference hey look, no big business inspired nanny looking over their shoulders saying Naughty, naughty, we dont think you should be looking at things like that! and Put a shirt on that Anime figure its disgusting! Take note Rosity. Too many times you have played the We can do what we like cos its our site what are they gonna do? Go somewhere else LOL Maybe this new site will come to nothing this time. But even so, just maybe this is the first small stone rolling down the hill and the avalanche is yet to come Jack
xoconostle posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 12:31 PM
"I do not want to start flame wars here."
Then why did you engage in needless USA-bashing? This was an absolutely terrible way to announce your upcoming store. Brag all you like about the allegedly superior German educational system, but what you did here was incredibly stupid as a business move. Jeez, I probaby would have been one of your first customers if I hadn't just read this post. Now ... I don't think so. You would have done better to separate the store announcement from your criticisms of Renderosity and the United States. However, I do understand that you're openly doing this to harvest offended merchants from this site and others. Still, poor form.
Fact is, I tend to agree with you about the climate of sexual hysteria in the USA. It's hypocritical and inane but the tone of your posturing is a real turn-off and betrays a foul attitude towards what is potentially your largest customer base. I mean, c'mon, "Please realize that the United States of America is not the center of the known universe..." I seriously considered risking my first-ever "warning" from the staff here, because the correct respone to that sort of creepy condescending bullshit is probably a TOS violation.
It would be so easy to turn around and counter-bash Germany on matters of morality and criminality, but hopefully just mentioning that will make the point so nobody has to go there.
You speak of your truthfulness and offer to provide evidence.
Please provide references to the case in which you claim someone is in jail for making Poser images. I'm not contesting your claim, but I haven't seen references to this case before, and would like to learn more. Thanks in advance; I look forward to pursuing the proof you'd mentioned.
Message edited on: 01/01/2006 12:37
JVRenderer posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 12:59 PM
OT: I don't think this is US bashing. It's the archaic US system. I am proud to be a Californian Yet, our governor is an Austrian. Our educational system is dismal and the governor wants to cut funding to our school system.
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KarenJ posted Sun, 01 January 2006 at 1:21 PM
OK, folks. This is NOT the forum for discussing political issues. We've been down that road too many times; it generates more complaints, warnings and all around ill-feeling than a dozen policy changes put together. Nor is this the place for announcing forthcoming competing sites. The sign at the top says, "Please post all Commercial posts in the Product Showcase Forum." Antonio, please feel free to repost your announcement in the Showcase forum. My advice would be to heed the feelings of some posters in this thread, and tone down the politics, though. Anyway, I wish you good luck with your venture. I'm locking this thread now before the hamsters come out to play... Karen Poser Mod
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something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan
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