now that 82 of us have expressed our displeasure with the new store layout and function, what about you other 211,018?

just checking OOPS ... I'm 2 years behind ... what about you other 400,000 members ???

Message edited on: 01/16/2006 22:33

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

That's 82 in this forum. What about all the other forums? From what I understand there are threads in very many of them with people complaining... not to mention anything that was sent by email to the admins and not posted.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Okay, I am editting... I dumped my Cache and things work a lot better. For awhile it was slow, but now it seems better. I am willing to give them a chance to work out the bugs... they are not too use to PHP after all!

Message edited on: 01/17/2006 00:03

ratscloset
aka John

LOL Dave, just keeping an eye out at this stage but please let there not be 400,000 replies :) Kyn

STORE:
http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=KymJ
GALLERY:
www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=KymJ

Check the Marketplace forum at the bottom of the list lol.The search brings up one page for me each time,I come here and in the store I'm a visitor each time unless I refresh my cookies...like I said down there,store has birth defects so its time to call in the doctors and surgeons. Oh and as for the 211,000...remember,thats only actually 500 members with 40,000 usernames each (slight joke there guys...lighten up)

If the end goal of learning is genius...why are most geniuses failures at learning?

I don't like the new store either: My wishlist no longer lets me know the prices of items or whether or not they are on sale. People had also complained for years that there's no checkbox system in the wishlist and that it's a pain to be able to only move one item at a time into your cart. Why they didn't institute that is a mystery. At least the wishlist is now in alphabetical order, but without prices, I will be moving a lot of stuff into and out of my cart unnecesisarily all the time. Can't stand the CP marketplace type pages. Yeah this sucks... and I feel like I've spent more than enough money here to be bitingly critical, which I normally don't do...

Cassandra here, This might be only the beginning. They may completely change the forums look and feel, also. This might just be the first shot in a complete makeover "intended" to improve speed, etc. You have been warned. P.S. No item names on purchases history is insane.

Renderosity is run by Bondware wich is a software package. My understanding is it just went through a major upgrade. My understanding has been that what we see as Renderosity was a very heavily customized version of Bondware. I am sure this transition is just that..transition. I would guess that it will take time to customize, convert so much product info and data. I wouldn't get so freaked out. I think it will be all pretty and great when they are done re-setting up from the upgrade.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

You may be correct, Anton, but in that case, why make the grand announcement "Our New Baby". Why not tell the 400,000 members that this is just the first ledge, and that more will be coming. As it is, there was no call for imput, no glimpse at an alpha, no warning it was coming and no "letter to our faithful members" explaining the implementation cycle and goals. And...why put such a half-baked application into service? ::::: Opera :::::

my point here is that there are only a handful of people here that ever say anything, pro or con to any event that comes along. We may be vocal, but only a small part of this "community". Or we may be the community and the rest are coming along buying stuff without ever making a peep. And guess what...if the sales are continuing, all is well for the owners,...whether the software sucks or not, or the customer service, or anything else. That's why you see a decline in services by a lot of big companies...a few people bitch, the rest just roll along filling up their credit cards. Anyway, I'm somewhat the same...if there's a product here that kindles my interest, Its going in my cart. The only person hurt by me not buying an item is me in the long run.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

That may be the way it works for you, Dave-So, but many people, when they see something they like, they put it first in their wishlist. This is what I do, and periodically I go through my wishlist and order a bunch of stuff from it. If the wishlist is badly handled, the number of items that will get transferred to my cart at some future point will be a lot less. Translates to: lower sales. Translates to: less income.

There are many forums for various types of art that don't require people to use the MP at all. People who use PSP, photoshop, those who write or draw/paint etc. They all have forums relating to their art interests that they have to register to post in, but these same people have no need to utilize the MP either. So seeing 400,000 members, is misleading because not all 400,000 members utilize Poser, Vue, Bryce or buy things from the MP.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

That's why you see a decline in services by a lot of >> big companies...a few people bitch, the rest just roll >> along filling up their credit cards. You hit that nail on the head. For all their posturing about values, most people only care about one thing -- what happens to them. So when they get the virus, buy the toaster that doesn't work, or lose their house, then, and only then, is it important. They may even complain; but who gives a flip? And the corporations, with their dinosaur brains and guts, finally are figuring that out. So if you don't like it, we won't do anything about it. And that's a "personal promise!!" If you're gonna just roll along, folks, shut up with the whining, Ok? It's curdling my coffee. M

Well, I just wasted five minutes trying to log in to see my wish list with Firefox. My password doesn't work, no doubt because of either code that assumes MSIE (who NEEDS people who don't like it?) or some sort of invasive cookie that Firefox is choking on. To be sure, I had my password emailed to me. Typing EXACTLY what they sent, it took me four more tries to get logged in, and then I went right back to the BABY screen. What a crock. So I click "My Account" again and get the useless list of order numbers and, finally, a way to see my wish list. And sure enough, my list is "alphabetized" (in that special sense that techies use the word, where "La Cubana" is first because it's 'alphabetized' on the quotation mark). No prices, no dates, no idea why I wanted any of it. Not even an indication of how old the piece, or my adding it to the list, might be. And stuff that is long gone from the market is still there, so I can click on an item and be told, after another page loads, that ByteMeOk's Amazing Grace is "no longer available." Brain-dead. I'm not even going to bother to clean out the list. It's history... in the medical sense. M

If you click on Item List, you will see all your Items. The View Orders is just that, your past Orders. Clicking on any of the Order Numbers lets you see what you got on that particular Order. I personally like that detail. The Wishlist and Thumbnails need refinement (Wishlist to show Regular and Sale Price and Images. I often review based on images, not just names. Thumbnails need to show Sale Price.)

ratscloset
aka John

I love it. I opened Amazing Grace in a second tab. I just went back to the "not available" message, and it turns out it loads the entire merchant display, including alternate pages and price, even though the product is long gone. And the first page shows Grace (Man, I wish I had bought it before the awful truth appeared) stark as born but somewhat hairier. Oh my eyes! My eyes! Of course, for all the PTB's chest thumping about the morally uplifting effect of g-strings, there is still full frontal nudity in the freebie thumbnails, in an area much more likely to be visited by kids.... Hypocrisy is just full of complications. M

Ok here is my input for this. As a merchant I am very sad to be posting like this, but hey I am trying to make the most fun out of something which makes me feel like crying. All my store promo pages are messed up. I am very sorry for the ugly looking promo pages because of this system change, which I can't even edit at the moment, cause whatever page I touch gets deleted from the marketplace. I hope you will like my image

"Rosemary's Baby" is BACK!! Umut's feedback has the full support of all merchants at present! All our html work has gone down the drain, no in-store links work anymore and NONE of it is our fault plus we can't touch a single thing without bringing further disaster on our heads! :( Thank God your majority is sensible enough to complaint and protest about this new monster! :) Rena

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

You now what really gets me? It writes ON BEHALF OF THE RENDEROSITY MERCHANTS. Please do not include my name into this mess. I don't have anything to do with this. Why am I included in to it? I am not the father of this baby? lol I am very sorry for having this cry here, but maybe it is a good possibility for you customers and browsers to see what we are facing. We are all giving our time and efforts (days and nights) from trying to bring the best we can for our customers and visitors to buy or just even have a look at. Sorry, I am running out of words, and that is something very extra ordinary for me, usually I always have words. Umut Aydin AKA UMUTOV

wait..... Rendo did not consult the merchants when designing this store?

when do they ever consult anyone? as usual, they just went ahead and did it...

A few weeks ago there was a survey on the front page, and I took it. I remember being asked questions about the various MP features and if I used them; features like "what's hot", "just released" etc. I found it to be a rather narrow and quite lame survey because there were only set choices and you couldn't add your own answers. Maybe that was their way of "polling" people here in preparation for this terrible change?

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Nope OperaGuy!! No preview..no beta..no details! Just an announcement and then a reminder that we'll get sooo many extras with the Bondware 3.0 upgrade that would take only 8 hours to complete. That's the time the store would have to be down! And Rosemary's Baby was BORN! LOL Rena

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

naw.. we get those questions every year.. this 'change' was supposed to be in beta for months.. I'm dreading next month.. it's the forums turn ;)

Umm...my wishlist is full of "X's" now. Tried to delete all, but I get error "Page cannot be found"

i dont understand why this couldnt have been tested on a separate machine with a backup copy of the renderosity databases, in parallel, by bondware before it was just swapped in. any new software is bound to have bugs but some of these are glaringly obvious. surely these problems would have shown up then and could have been fixed at leasure without frustrating and inconveniencing hundreds of thousands of customers and two thousand merchants.

I've asked that question before.. and was told that the database was 'too large' and that 'it could not be tested properly' to anyone with experience in the real world (IE Non-Renderosity) will now be falling off their chair laughing.

i see ive lost even more of my marketing priveleges, yet again. where is all of my feedback? where is my former MOM icon? where is the sidebar with links to other best-selling products - both in my store and the general store? where is 'customers who purchased this product also purchased...?' why are my tables on my product pages - which are simple HTML - messed up? i was supposed to leave in 20 min on a 600km drive up north but now it seems like ill be fixing my goddamn promo pages yet again. if the database was 'too large' then a section of it could have been used, or even an older backup before it grew so big. most of these problems would have been immediately noticable. that something like this was released in its current state is a slap in the face to merchants and customers. i know perfectly well that new software inevitably has bugs. but im hearing this over and over again lately as an excuse from software companies and coders for releasing a product that was not tested thorougly. yes, new software has bugs - but it is not an excuse to rush an untested product out the door.

Blackhearted...DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING!!!!! The minute you edit a page the item dissapears from the what's hot and what's new pages and shows only in your store! Honest to God..this is not a joke! LOL Read the merchants forum! Hongyu and As Shanim both had it this way..just leave all as they are till admins wake up and start giving a few explanations about this nightmare! :) Rena

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

Some merchants were lost from the merchants list too this way..and this is NO JOKE either! Hard to believe I know but we experience the RMP Armagedon Era...all is possible! :)

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

Gabriel, did you take your store down?! I clicked your name and then clicked "view online store" to see if I saw askewed tables, and I got a 404 error. EDIT: It seems the only way to access merchant stores now is from directly within the MP and using the drop down menu there. I can't access them from clicking the person's name here and then clicking to view their store. Also, I looked at your store, and your tables look ok to me.I looked at the first item listed and it seem aligned and all the same size where they are supposed to be. Have you tried clearing out your temporary internet files before you go and rework your images? Maybe you won't have to.

Message edited on: 01/17/2006 09:05

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

NO links from normal 'Rosity to the marketplace work. Links have changed for all in-store pages. Her store is there but has another link now..old ones don't work Acadia! Rena

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

Yep just lost my Top Selling item, from the What's hot section. I wonder what the customer are thinking. Gabriel do not touch anything as Renapd said, even the pages look all buggy, atleast they are in the MP, if you touch they go. Umut.

I wish someone qualified would tell us why not on tables but on simple html text.. one space line gets interpeted to 3, 4, or 5 at random in RMP promo pages. I always had one space line in between headers, text, table and now endless gaps - as long as they please! LOL Rena

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

blackhearted and khai, I am rolling on floor, laughing out load Foxpro vet here, several million record tables, etc. Anything that ends in "it was impossible to test" is not a lie, but a BIG LIE. I wonder how big the files actually are? ::::: Opera ::::: P.S. Seriously, if they did not place a backup on a testing system, then do they even HAVE a copy of the data before switch?

"P.S. Seriously, if they did not place a backup on a testing system, then do they even HAVE a copy of the data before switch?" erm.. answer from last time they did a big system change... "it was not possible to back up the old system" so.. we're stuck with it. I am SO glad I closed my store here and went elsewhere....

do you have any idea how many gigs the data would be?

yes. however surely they can use a part of the database, an older backup. they dont need to have all of the gallery images and posts from every single forum, for example, to test the marketplace. i am not a programmer, nor do i pretend to be. but dont tell me there is absolutely no way to test something like this without a full conversion. if it was tested with a part of the rosity database then these issues would have been easy to spot. so from where i sit it looks like it wasnt tested. i only hope that my feedback wasnt lost permanently. ive taken a lot of shit here over the years but that will be the final straw. btw - thanks guys for the warning on editing. what saved me was actually the fact that rio and i spent 10 min looking for an edit button and cant find it anywhere, otherwise wed have edited the pages already :(

Now that you are warned I WILL share the big secret of where's the edit button hidden! LOL That's what saved me too - prior ignorance! :) On the last drop down menu of your Vendors Control Room choose Product list. You'll see them all with an edit text link next to the title. Now how on earth you can preview something in pending..don't ask that much..another mystery to be solved eventually! LOL Rena

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

CP Paradise has a development site that they implement changes on before they hit the regular site. Renderosity should have done something like that instead of just "Doing it" here. Then they could have done a Beta test of the development site and gotten feedback on what was good and what was bad and what truely was a disaster.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

"No prices, no dates, no idea why I wanted any of it. Not even an indication of how old the piece, or my adding it to the list, might be. " Maybe it's too much trouble, but do you think clicking on an item will show you what it was and how much it cost?

Quote - Maybe it's too much trouble, but do you think clicking on an item will show you what it was and how much it cost?

On a site this slow, and for people on dial up, that's a royal pain, and God awful time consuming. The old way you could see it all at a glance, which was ideal.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Rosemary's Baby just LOOOOVES lots of clicks! hehe!

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

"CP Paradise has a development site that they implement changes on before they hit the regular site. Renderosity should have done something like that instead of just "Doing it" here. Then they could have done a Beta test of the development site and gotten feedback on what was good and what was bad and what truely was a disaster." thats pretty much standard procedure for any large site such as this. i guess were the only ones that get the kamikaze updates.

I wrote the admin a personal email to say I did not like the new site and I asked them to return it to the old version.elow is the response I got. It seems, from her words, that there are people out there who have told them they like it. This seemed like a form letter. Here is the email I got in response: Hello, While we understand that change is sometimes difficult, we do feel moving to the .php based site is a good move. There will be so many more enhancements we will be able to make (and certainly make more quickly). We believe that once we make some minor adjustments and tweaks, which always has to happen by trial and error on a move like this, members will come to love the new way things look and the feel of it. Please try and be patient as we gather member suggestions and input to see what adjustments need to be made. This will be an ongoing process. We are receiving lots and lots of positive feedback through IM's, emails, phone calls and forum posts and we realize that not everyone will love it at first (and maybe never) but we are going to try and do our best so that the majority feels good about the change. Thank you so much for your feedback. Thank you, Community Manager

I don't know enough about WEB stores to know what .php means, but if it can provide so many more options then why can't it provide the look and feel of the old site?

Oh, if the store is now php driven (php is a scripting language, Thorgrim) and the rest of the site is not, it explains why a double login is required. The only remedy will be to php-ize the whole site, I think.

I'm going to chime in here, because the email I sent to the admins seemed to indicate that there is a veritable horde of people who absolutely love this new marketplace-- apparently they don't post in forums.

Tried to post in the Feedback on new marketplace thread, but the forum ate my post.

I don't want to repeat the same issues, though I agree wholeheartedly with all of them, but let me say this. While the concept of the customer always being right seems to be dead and buried these days, this new marketplace violates what should be the new first rule of commerce... Do Not Make it Hard for me to Give you My Money. I spend enough here, all of us do. Don't make it harder than it has to be.

While I'd like to take the high road and say I'll never spend another dime here, that would just be posturing, because certain merchants that I like are RMP exclusive. I did however dump about two-thirds of my wishlist this morning.

Don't know if it's possible, but ideally, I would love to see a wishlist implemented (with all the important information) like Netflix DVD list with the ability to sort on all fields, prioritize your items and a check system to apply the same action to multiple selections. That would have been a baby worth welcoming.

kalonart.com

"Please try and be patient as we gather member suggestions and input to see what adjustments need to be made. This will be an ongoing process." what, i need to actually write in and tell them that the fact that there is no customer feedback on products is a 'problem'?

The new store stinks and my purchase history is now a nightmare. I used the purchase history to find things on my hard drive by copying the item number into my Windows search so I could reinstall it into Poser 6 when I bought Poser 6. Now, If I have a crash and have to reinstall, how am I going to find the things I want to reinstall????? I loved RR the way it was and spent most of my money here because the marketplace and purchase history was user friendly and the promos were nice and big. Now, the store looks like a six-year-old programmed it. As a matter of fact, a six-year-old geek would do a better job. I also read some people are not getting downloads working after they bought something in the new store. And please get rid of the baby picture. This new store is one baby that should have been aborted.

you guys are going to have to give it a chance to succeed, granted it looks a little weird in my browser window, it does function and functioning is an important aspect of a web store. Yeah it looks like a different coloured RDNA store but only because they upgraded to 3.0 first. and I am sure they were able to first cause they have such a small store. php is a frequently updated and somewhat secure lang for sites and offers many things that I am sure their proprietary .ez just cannot do. I personally would have like to see it go .cfml :) just cause hahaha. About the store now. -it needs to be 0 top margin I have about 5-10 px of white space at the top, and about the same at the bottom. -the side bar reaces to the bottom but the footer is again about 10 px from the bottom leaving a white gap. -button area should be 100% btu I would get rid of the buttons all together and just use txt's. -wishlist I would like to see thumbnails -pages have far too many images on them -pages take a long time to load -title area should match the site -I would like to have the whole site consititant in look, this was my gripe about teh last change, I have my bg colour changed as well as my menu area on hte right. But again the whole site is going to get upgraded though so I will not bitch about it til it is done :)

♠Ω Poser eZine Ω♠
♠Ω Poser Free Stuff Ω♠
♠Ω My Homepage Ω♠

www.3rddimensiongraphics.net

 

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12357&Form.ShowMessage=2542408

There is a post in the Community Forum where some people are saying that they like the changes. I posted a link to this thread in there so that they can see what the rest of us are saying. Also here is the reply I got in email yesterday when I wrote in:

Quote - First off let me say Linda, we as admin do read as much of the forums as we can but certainly we can't read them all as there are approx 2 million forum posts and 60 different forums. Being as something like this is a big change and there are lots of threads in a lot of different forums we asked the moderators to keep tabs on the threads in their specific area and to note to the members that have suggestions, opinions, etc that they want seen by the admin to come to this email address so that we can be sure as to not miss them. We appreciate all the opinions, suggestions, etc that have been received and will be reviewing them all for possible changes to accomodate as many members views as possible. Thank you, Stacey Community Manager

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

No comment other than than being the Devil's lawyer and I know I'll get privately scolded for this one before hand..yet I'll say it! Amazing how positive feedback started to spring around the moment USA and admins woke up! It was all the other way round before sunshine hit over there! hehehehehe! Cheers guy and let's get it into our skins! Like it or not this baby will stay and they couldn't care less of what we say! Rolling up sleeves to find out all about it as this will be it regardless of what! Another fact of life! :( Rena

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

"We are receiving lots and lots of positive feedback through IM's, emails, phone calls and forum posts and we realize that not everyone will love it at first (and maybe never) but we are going to try and do our best so that the majority feels good about the change. " funny... there's always hordes of this praise when a change is made... but none of it in the forums. can anyone else smell bovine excrement?

hey, what the heck ????? I've posted twice in this thread and in this window I don't see either post (the second was a repost of the first because I didn't see it)...but now, in ANOTHER window, my second post is here in this thread, but it STILL doesn't show in this window, even when I refresh...I even deleted my cache...looks around warily for Rod Serling

Say what you mean and mean what you say.

I've read the posts advocating patience, and I guess you have a point. Still, in the real world when a store is renovating they put up "pardon our dust" signs. I guess a lot of the confusion is due to the "here's our new baby, don't you just love him" signs. That kind of indicates that the renovation is complete. On the other hand, this is a hobby for me, I thought it was a business for the RMP, surely the same rules don't apply.

kalonart.com

Well checked that link and looks like a lot of complaints to me. The fact that only a few people are vocal in the forums means nothing.I talk with a lot of people behind the scenes and have my own site where peeps send me pm's all the time about issues like this.No one likes the store and when I told them there are quotes here from some admin that its not finished yet the answer usually is unanimous that they should have had it ready before uploading or that they should have someone dedicated just to this project so it can be done speedily and with as little distraction to the members as possible. Rosity is an enormous site and essentially its an outlet of Bondware that reflects what you can expect if you buy into the Bondware package.Its kinda like putting the cloth for a teddy bear in a display window and then once in a great while adding a little something to it like cutting a shape,adding some stuffing,etc...until finally after three or four months you finally have a completed teddy bear in the window for sale.Its backwards thinking in other words as even if some people would be interested in seeing the process develop,they have little patience for a prolonged undertaking and will simply stop looking when they see no progress~they simply lose interest. In advertising,keeping the company in the spotlight is essential when they're introducing change.If you fail to do that or they run into unexpected problems,you then stop the advertising because it becomes like a false promise.Consumers are very unforgiving of products that don't meet the expectations promised which is why I made fun of the "Introducing our new baby" promo by saying it has birth defects...it sets an expectation that the store is finished and so it is judged by what you see.A better promo would be something like "The NEW Renderosity Store~Under Construction"...maybe then follow with a take on the Six Million Dollar Man by saying you intend it to be faster,stronger than before,you wanted a better store~the Renderosity Marketplace will be that store. Sorry,my former job occupation coming back on me with the ad pov but still,it was a very poor way to promote the store when its still a fetus and not being in here hammering people with facts like its not done yet or telling people what the store "will have" when its finished...keep hammering away so as to alleviate consumer misgivings and help ease the transition.The foible with the store right now should have their maximum attention as it could be an economic fiasco if finishing it up takes too long.There are simply too many other sites to compete with right now and a site as big as rosity does not have the luxury of time smaller sites have as it allows the competition to lure away both their valued merchants and buyers.

If the end goal of learning is genius...why are most geniuses failures at learning?

Ahhhh, yes.....we needed for yet another thread to be started up on this subject. The ones that existed already weren't enough to do the job.

I've stated my opinion elsewhere. Rather than re-write what I've already said, I'll just do a quick 'n dirty cut & paste job (besides which, I just love quoting myself):

*Two years from now, Rendo might decide to change the store format again.

I can't wait to see what'll be said about the subject then. I wish that I'd saved a copy of the old threads which sprang up at the time of the last Marketplace changeover. You could have substituted those old threads for this one. And nobody would notice the difference.

And yet here we are being told just how WONDERFUL the "old" Marketplace was -- even though it wasn't actually very old at all. And a lot of people had expressed outright HATRED for it at the time when it first assumed that particular form.........

Ah, well.....the more things change, the more that they stay the same.*

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

aah yes.... we needed for yet another condesending post from Xenophonz. The ones that existed already weren't enough to do the job. ;)

aah yes.... we needed for yet another condesending post from Xenophonz. The ones that existed already weren't enough to do the job.

Hit a sore spot, did I?

;)

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

not at all old chap. just observing your being your normal self thats all... feel free to condesend some more. not that you need the permission of course.. you'll do it anyway... ;)

OK, here's my two cents ... From a design standpoint, it is a LOT cleaner on the eyes. Having all of those categories and links on the home page of the store in its previous incarnation was a real eyesore. So as far as the layout goes, it's a vast improvement. BUT ... the common practice is to design the entire new site on a separate server, and do it so that all you have to do is "flip the switch" and have a big surprise for your visitors the next day. That makes the changes as seamless as possible. But it also runs into problems because you aren't really able to test it completely until it goes live. As others have said, give 'em time to work out the bugs. It sure is a lot easier on the eyes this way!

Thanks for the heads-up Rena, I won't touch my product until things get fixed. My 2nd page promo pic is at the top of the page now (??) and I've got table errors too.

Hasn't been a good week, with DAZ Studio's latest update crashing every other minute...guess I'm going to try learning the ZBrush 2 demo in the meantime. :)

SnowS edit: nooo, they confirmed in the linked thread that you won't be able to change store page colors. There goes the little hope I had of getting used to this. :(

Message edited on: 01/17/2006 11:32

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

@ Khai --

Oh, well, I could engage in this sort of personal tit-for-tat all day ---

But I'd rather discuss the facts of the case here. Not personalities.

However, you are right on one score at lease: I don't need your permission to do so.

;)

BTW - I note that you have in no way responded to the substance of what I had to say. Rather, you have merely expressed your personal animus.

Keep it up. Who knows? Perhaps the posts will be deleted, or the thread itself locked/deleted.

[Edited to add "@ Khai" -- just to personalize it.]

:)

Message edited on: 01/17/2006 11:34

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

shock there was substance? I thought you were merely being condesending and superior and not contributing at all in general... reviews your first post in this thread yup exactly what I thought.. carry on old chap. good to see your consistant :)

@ Khai --
dramatic eye roll

You are correct once again. This level of 'discussion' won't accomplish much. But -- seeing as how you've insisted on engaging in it......I'll leave you to it. You do it so well.

---

As for the subject at hand:

I would like to see prices added back to the wishlist. That's sort of a no-brainer, IMO.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Xeno,there are more than one thread on this simply because some are spread out in different forums and some people just simply want to put in their two cents seperately so their comments at the top and won't get lost in the replys to follow. As for copying and pasting from the last time rosity made a marketplace change...if they made the same mistakes then of course the complaints will be the same~thats called common sense.What isn't common sense is "knowing" you'll get the same complaints and not thinking ahead to find a way of doing things to avoid it.Its kinda like when a murderer escapes justice and kills again,you'll hear the same complaints raised and possibly even louder the second time if the same thing happens again.You don't want killers repeatedly released you raise your voice...you don't want to deal with these changes over and over at rosity,you again raise your voice as thats the only thing you can do. Read what Deecey had to say as thats exactly what should have been done.They didn't even need to put this on a new server,all they needed to do was create a new database on this one not linking to it until it was ready and swapping out when there's little traffic to see how the changes look.

If the end goal of learning is genius...why are most geniuses failures at learning?

@Armorbeast --

Once the good folks at Rendo have a little time to get some feedback (as from these multiple threads), and then have a little time to make some tweaks -- I have faith that it'll all work out in the end.

If nothing else: people will simply get used to doing things in a new & different way -- and move on into "business as usual" mode.

shrug It's always worked out that way before. As in with the last (then-hated) Marketplace alteration.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/index.ez?viewStory=12891

K, gonna link to this 1 more time, and even quote what's in it. I know, there are things missing, but they *are* in the works to be converted. " There will be a few items that will not make the initial conversion. They will be converted quickly after the initial conversion. # Product Reviews. # "Customers who bought this item also bought" listing." It was posted last week, and linked to in the Newsletter. As well, Admin sent out an email with a link to the linked article, which held a coupon, good for before the conversion. In hindsight, it could have been clearer that shopping carts would empty upon conversion. " We would like to offer everyone a extremely special coupon to purchase the items that may still be in your "Shopping Cart". Please click here to find out how you can save money and get those products you've been waiting to purchase. If you are unable to purchase those items before January 16th, but still want to keep a record of what you want to purchase, you may add those items to your "Wish List". Everyone's "Wish List" will be converted to the new BCS MarketPlace." At this time, the store is the only part of the site that has been converted. In order to convert the whole site at once, we'd have to shut the site down for more than 24 hours. In order to minimize the inconvenience and the loss of information, it is being done in parts. MorriganShadow Poser Moderator

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

At this time, the store is the only part of the site that has been converted. In order to convert the whole site at once, we'd have to shut the site down for more than 24 hours. In order to minimize the inconvenience and the loss of information, it is being done in parts. I can't even imagine the work involved to revise a site of this magnitude. My sympathies! LOL

i have no problem with the upgrade to php, in fact ive been eagerly awaiting it. what i object to is the renderosity members, customers and merchants being used as guinea pigs. this isnt a personal homepage, or a nonprofit community service website. its an online community and marketplace. there shouldnt be a week of 'tweaking' - all this should have been done already on a separate, parallel machine and the final code should have been launched without these errors. the code that is in place now wouldnt even qualify as an alpha build, let alone a beta or RC.

personally i feel if it aint broke dont fix it. nough said........ also "new and improved aint always , new or improved" i come back to shop in a few months when i can geta page to load in less than an hour........ Rita

.

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

Hablo español

Ich spreche Deutsch

Je parle français

Mi parolas Esperanton. Ĉu vi?

Well that answers one thing as they're definately planning on redoing the whole site.But it also reveals a bit of falsehood in regard to this issue as by doing it in parts,they can certainly do it on a different server or another database to get it developed correctly and then make the change.They don't have to construct each segment individually...in fact,doing it this way makes it look like its taking much longer so people will be less forgiving. If it took up to 24 hours to propogate a change like that then shut down pieces of the site for that time...people are forgiving of that.Doing it this way makes it look like you don't know what you're doing,it causes confusion and it creates conflict that could have been avoided with foresight. To be honest Morrigan,I don't read much of the newsletter because it tends to be a bit dry and any mention of coupons I scan right over cause the rosity coupon discounts simply do not interest me...you have to make a purchase of a certain amount and have a short timeframe to use it so when I finally do get some cash to spend the coupons no longer valid.As Xeno alluded to with his comments regarding the repeated posts,he's noticed because he probably surfs all the forums...most don't and no matter where you post you should know in advance a lot of people probably won't see it or it will be the same ones because they surf multiple forums here. I don't like DAZ which by now everyone should know,but their site is far easier to navigate and when they make changes like this they have learned (in most cases) to put the info up in bold text wherever the most customer traffic is...they don't bury it in a forum thread or simply rely on their newsletter when a lot of peeps may not be subscribed or may not read it if they are.They have a much more fluid site when you surf looking for products and although they also have issues,they do take steps to correct them.Here its clear a lot of people are having problems...the DAZ answer would be discounts and reperations of some kind~here its keep pointing out that members should have known and more or less its your fault for not knowing.This from someone who hates DAZ and likes Renderosity so you know it burns my goat having to say they're better than you in any way.

If the end goal of learning is genius...why are most geniuses failures at learning?

I hear where you're coming from Armorbeast, but I was trying to get out there that we did at least try to notify community members of the change, the coupon code, and that stuff in your cart wouldn't be in your cart after the changeover. If you decide to delete your newsletter or emails from here, we can't do anything about it on our end ;) sorry, spelt your s/n wrong!

Message edited on: 01/17/2006 12:43

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

We would like to offer everyone a extremely special coupon to purchase the items that may still be in your "Shopping Cart".

That would be nothing, since it seems people's shopping cart contents were lost in the move. :-D

Are they really switching to PHP? Does this mean no more Bondware? Or is Bondware switching to PHP?

People were complaining that Bondware was out of the Jurassic age. Maybe this will be a good thing. Eventually.

Or maybe we should file this under "be careful what you wish for..."

Attached Link: http://www.bondware.com

randy, The coupon was offered *before* the migration. Bondware did design the new code. Bondware is a company, not just software ;)

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

im much too busy to read every newsletter or forum post, i only stumbled upon this one by accident. listen, im happy about the change - php is a good thing for all of us. im not prone to posting the typical poser forum knee-jerk 'the sky is falling' type posts, and thats not why i posted here. im just displeased about how it was implemented. many of these issues should have been ironed out before it went live. if within a couple of days all of the bugs are fixed and we all have at least what we had before the change, ill be one very happy camper.

I missed a coupon? How did I miss a coupon? All the other "special offers" have come through just fine.

Jeez. I coulda gotten As Shahim's new hair before the changeover. I'm scairt to use the MP now.

I probably won't be buying anything for a couple of weeks anyway -- so I figure that all of the kinks should be out of the system by then. ;)

But if there was something that I wanted badly -- I wouldn't hesitate to purchase it now.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Things are slowly changing back over. The wishlist changes appear to have been implimented, along with items on sale. It may take a few days, but I'm sure the fixes will be added. Randy, did you get the last newsletter? It was in there. The coupon has since expired, though, so it's not really of any use. I believe it was 10% off of $10+.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

I think a lot of the coupons didn't get into the mail ...

Problem there Xeno is if there are bugs then that purchase you make could become more of a headache than its worth.What if you make a purchase that doesn't go through on their end correctly even if it says it does?You go look in your cart to download and its not there?You make a complaint and they say we have no record of a purchase?That could happen anyway but the potential is vastly increased now because its basically a work in progress...they simply cannot be on the ball with everything because with php there are so many more variables.I know because my site is php based and its a real pita.I wish we had gone with simple html as thats still a viable platform and when the simplest thing goes wrong with php you can lose everything or be down for days.Php does have strengths but overall the weaknesses are a real bitch to deal with.

If the end goal of learning is genius...why are most geniuses failures at learning?

It's THERE guys..phew!!! Don't let that dreadful account list of orders scare you any longer! LOL Just click on the link above it that says "Item List" Purchases show the good old fashioned way we're all familiar with...with links to product, price, vendor name, store item number, download links, search function and all the goodies we know so well!!! DOUBLE phew!!! :) Rena

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

"The wishlist changes appear to have been implimented..." Very good, MS!! :)

'Just click on the link above it that says "Item List" Purchases show the good old fashioned way we're all familiar with...with links to product, price, vendor name, store item number, download links, search function and all the goodies we know so well!!! DOUBLE phew!!! :) Rena' I discovered that it sorts by date too if you click on the column header! ;0)

Message edited on: 01/17/2006 13:45

********************************************************************************************************************

Life is a beta.

In faecorum semper, solum profundum variat.

I've also found the goood old fashion way of displaying our past purchases. Don't let that account screen orders scare you off! Just click on top to the link "Item List". All is there the way we know it! DOUBLE phew!! :) Rena

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

"funny... there's always hordes of this praise when a change is made... but none of it in the forums." (secondary admin names) 400,000 members (joined, not ever revisited. lost usernames. many joined in the 90's) allways around 2000 ppl online 24/7 (preset counter minimum, advertiseing price advantage) We hate kiddy porn- remove all faries, we hate pornography, reomve all nudity, we hate your politics, remove the OT forum, we hate your closeness with each other, you might organize, remove the Pub........ect "funny... there's always hordes of this praise when a change is made... but none of it in the forums."

is it faster than before?

"I've also found the goood old fashion way of displaying our past purchases.
Don't let that account screen orders scare you off!
Just click on top to the link "Item List".
All is there the way we know it! DOUBLE phew!! :)

Rena"

It sorts by date order too if you click on the relevant header. ;0)

Message edited on: 01/17/2006 13:48

********************************************************************************************************************

Life is a beta.

In faecorum semper, solum profundum variat.

Overall, it looks good to me -- although I'd like to see a "wishlist" button included at the top of the page. Often it's handy to be able to jump back and forth from the wishlist to the cart.

I'd also like to see the old "move to wishlist" option put back into the cart. Saves a lot of unnecessary clicking.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Ok...if you're finding these then how come there's no progress updates from the admin;P

If the end goal of learning is genius...why are most geniuses failures at learning?

Because we like to see ya squirm ;) There will be an announcement when all extras (meaning not necessary for the store to go) are implimented ;) MS

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Attached Link: RMP Problem Resolution progress

There IS progress guys.. there's even an update story running live! :) Check it out! :) Rena

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

A few nit-picks: 1) Where do you get the "400,000" number? Is this the number of members? If so, out of that number, how many are active? How many actually used the site more than once? How many read messages in the forums? I bet the number is significantly less. 2) As it is, there was no call for imput, no glimpse at an alpha, no warning it was coming and no "letter to our faithful members" explaining the implementation cycle and goals. This is how Renderosity always works: they make a change and then adjust things based on users' complaints. Remember the big drama a few years ago when they changed the look of the site? Did they beta-test? Did they ask members for feeback before it went live? Did they do any kind of "user impact" study before putting the new pages in place? Not at all. Instead, people were stuck with a "mud" color scheme that was hated by most people. So why should this "upgrade" be any different? --John

VanishingPoint... Advanced 3D Modeling Solutions

Hey...HEY...don't post that here Rena,more fun to squirm and squeal here in the mud with everyone else;P

If the end goal of learning is genius...why are most geniuses failures at learning?

Oh come on guys! If I'VE LEARNT to live with it within a day and hundreads of personal complaints..I guess the rest will too! LOL

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

Rena - thanks for the link to what is being fixed. I don't yet see anything to re-implement the old "updated products" list though. That was especially useful to me for when I can't be online all the time (gasp!) and may miss a notification of an update. I used to go check that list because not all vendors notify you via email or IM.

And Hawkfyre (Tom), in case you're still reading all the hooplah....tosses a big beefeater steak tomato with direct aim.....some of us are trying to give helpful feedback to aid in getting the new MP running smoothly.

So sheesh right back at ya babe! :P

~arry ;)

I dare you, while there is still time, to have a magnificent obsession. --William Danforth

The prices in the list of purchased items in the user account contain the actual price, and not the sale price if that was the case, i bought an item for $5 and the list says the price was $6.50.
I know we can check the Order number details (it would be nice if this was clickable too, btw), but still this is a bit misleading.

Has search been fixed yet???I came here to buy something yesterday and did a general search to see what was available and no matter what I put into the search criteria it drew up only one page.Thats how I got sucked into this trying to find out what gives and whats with all the bugs.

If the end goal of learning is genius...why are most geniuses failures at learning?

Well.....speaking for myself (it's always best to speak for yourself) -- I want EVERYTHING fixed ! Like I want it to be fixed ! Not Right Now, man -- LAST WEEK!

They should all be strung up! That's what I say!

(Just one man's opinion)

---

I'll check back in a bit. Perhaps it'll all fall out to my satisfaction sometime in the next 30 minutes or so. It had BETTER be -- or else.........

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

BTW -- I expect to receive a personal IM from Tim informing me once things have been straightened out as per my orders.

Once my approval has been granted, then the admins will be allowed to take a quick restroom break. But they'd better not spend over 3 minutes in there! I'll be watching.

There's work to be done!

SNAP! SNAP!

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Chop chop...get to it!!

If the end goal of learning is genius...why are most geniuses failures at learning?

Sorry, what? I was in the bathroom, couldn't hear ya. kidding

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

We'll have to dock your pay, then. Spend too much time in there, and you'll end up owing us money.........

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

...do you take bits of string?

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

...do you take bits of string?

Not for me, thanks. But my cats would appreciate it. Of course, the problem there is that the cats are prone to eating the string -- which makes them get sick on the rug later.

Then somebody has to clean up the mess. Fortunately, I'm married.

No......hmmmmmm.......shoestring budget, eh? Well, a few hundred dollars in store credit wouldn't hurt.

Why don't we take this discussion to IM? It's not a good idea to talk money in front of everybody like this. They might start gettin' ideas.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

it's all good ;) I'm sure someone will start wondering why I'm bribing you with string, instead of anyone else bribing me with chocolate or beer ;)

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

*which hasn't worked yet, btw, but it doesn't hurt to try ;) )

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

People try to bribe you.......? And you're telling us that it hasn't ever worked, eh?

Obviously, this is simply a ploy to get potential "bribers" to up the ante. Sweeten the pot. With extra chocolate, if need be.

You know the old saying: "every Mod has their price".

;)

Message edited on: 01/17/2006 16:30

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Oh, I'm not saying gifts aren't appreciated ;) They just won't sway me ;)

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

So now you're soliciting gifts.......

;)

PS - I'd never dream of attempting to sway you.

:)

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Naw, just bein' silly ;)

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Likewise -- ;)

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I just e-mailed Stacey with a polite e-mail about the problems I have with the new Marketplace. Guess what? I just got a nice polite e-mail back with answers to some of my comments. The double signing in should be going when the whole site moves to the same server instead of different ones as they are now. One of the things I commented on was the dislike (extreme understatment here) of the forum users for changes when the reasons behind them were not spelt out. Stacey said that this would be passed on to the whole admin team. While this may not lead to any changes to the way things are done in future (actions speak louder than words),if you have any comments, why not send them, politely, to Stacey?

Cause Stacey doesn't want hundreds of emails from us banterring back and forth;P

If the end goal of learning is genius...why are most geniuses failures at learning?

Don't know what happened to my posts; somehow they've just disappeared so I'm posting again. I really don't like the new look of the store. I truely hate it, I liked the way the previews for the items were before. I am glad that they are fixing the wishlist. Will wait to see what other things R'osity fixes before I decide whether to take my business to somewhere else. I hope this post doesn't disappear!

From willowelf Don't know what happened to my posts; somehow they've just disappeared so I'm posting again. I really don't like the new look of the store. I truely hate it, I liked the way the previews for the items were before. I am glad that they are fixing the wishlist. Will wait to see what other things R'osity fixes before I decide whether to take my business to somewhere else. I hope this post doesn't disappear! there...if it disappears again we have a copy and if my post disappears someones gonna get spit on;P

If the end goal of learning is genius...why are most geniuses failures at learning?

It's obvious that the store is a seperate web site, and it looks very much like a beginner did it. I hate the text with lines under it for links. Hope they straighten this out soon!

It's obvious that the store is a seperate web site, and it looks very much like a beginner did it. I hate the text with lines under it for links. Hope they straighten this out soon!"

i actually prefer simple text links as opposed to graphic buttons, or heaven forbid some sortof lame flash or javascript menu.
although i do agree that the underline needs to go from the links. text links can look pretty sweet with just test styles - ie: in a contrasting color, bolded, and without underline. **edit LOL, it applied my style formatting to the entire page. heh, anyways you get the idea. the ones on my site were simple bolded links, with an overline that appeared on mouseover. looks nice and clean and professional, loads fast. cheers, -gabriel Message edited on: 01/17/2006 20:51

LOL Armor! Thanks hehehe