I love art,especially 3d models.I tried drawing with a pencil but I wasn't that good.Soon I will attend a school to learn about photoshop,flash etcAfter I will try to enter a school to make 3d characters.I am afraid that I will not make it. I want to know what kind of difficulty did you guys went to before learning to make 3d characters and when you were learning it?

It would be very well worth it for you if you force yourself to learn how to draw the types of characters you want to make in 3D. The ability to draw is a talent, of course, but by following certain rules of proportion, shape, etc., you can learn. Any good bokkstore such as Barnes and Noble and Books A Million has books on the subject of drawing. Not only would drawing help ypu in 3D, but probably even more importantly, learning to draw well teaches you to see detail better as well. That having been said, most of the good 3D modeling packages have tools to "box model" an entire figure, literally starting with a box, or something very similar in shape. Do yourself a favor though and learn to draw. If you got frustrated drawing, you're likely to get frustrated modeling in 3D. I almost always sketch out on paper first what I'm going to model, even if it's something as simple as a table, and most pros create full character studies on paper - many drawings - long before they even start at the computer.

3D art consists of multiple facets. Modeling, texturing, composition, lighting, postwork - and I'm leaving out everything associated with animation. What part(s) of 3D art are you interested in? From my own experience, modeling can be very satisfying - and frustrating. Texturing is something I can't do. I cannot make my own texture maps, and UV mapping is a nightmare. So I almost always stick to procedurals for texturing. Composition and lighting of existing models/textures is what I like best (and probably what I do best). Postworking renders in Photoshop or something similar - many artists can enhance or even completely alter a 3D render. I can't. I might take a render into Photoshop to fix up some minor render glitches, but that's about all that I do. What difficulties? First and foremost, you have to have an idea of what your scene should "tell" the viewer. When you have an idea of what your scene should look like, you can start at compositing the scene. I often use primitives (boxes, cylinders) and premade models to "sketch out" the scene. If a premade model does what I want it to do, I don't waste my time modeling my own. But often there is no premade model that fits the scene, and then I model it myself, be it clothing, architecture, or a vehicle. Lighting is always a challenge. Requires lots and lots of test renders until the lighting is what I want it to be. Usually a project of mine takes about a week (if I don't have to make my own models, that is), more than half of that time goes into tweaking the lighting. Every 3D rendering app has its own peculiarities, and it takes lots and lots of renders to learn how to use a certain rendering engine to its maximum potential. Unlike MikeJ, I do not make sketches. But I'm not a professional and don't plan on becoming one. Last but not least: it's not the tools that make the artist! It's creativity and ideas that do.

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What I want to do is create characters of my own imagination.Like create my own cartoon characters that I had a hard time to draw etc. The reason I want to be in 3d drawing is because I enjoy more being on a computer to make something than making them with a pencil.

Btw,svdl,I saw your gallery and wow!!I think that I will follow your example.I won't make sketches,I'll follow my own ideas from now.

I would suggest that you start by downloading the demos of several 3d programs, like 3dsmax, Rhino, Vue, Carrara, etc and try them, working thru the available tutorials. that will help you get an idea of what exactly you want to learn to do, and which software you want to use. (Many of the software packages, including those I mentioned and a few others, offer a free demo that will run for a limited time, sometiems with limited functionality, which you can download from their websites. In the 3ds Max forum, in the banner at the top of the page is a link to the site where you sign up to request a 3dsmax demo. Jeff (martian_manhunter) Poser & 3dsMax Moderator

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You mentioned a fear of failure. One thing the computer allows us is the freedom to experiment. You have multiple undos in many programs and the ability to save off various versions or various steps (under different names) in almost all of them. This can be quite liberating if you are hesitant to put pencil to paper or commit to the permanency of watercolor and ink. If you plan to toon your figures, you can either use a vector drawing program (such as Illustrator) which will allow beautiful scaling and a naturalistic workflow, OR you can use 3d figures and then flatten them. Lighting and texturing become more of a concern at this point. I will recommend that you do spend time drawing because it trains the eye and brain to recognize when something is right as well as to notice details. If I photograph a plant I might see how the light illuminates the petals until they glow, but if I'm drawing it I notice the hairiness of the stems and curl of the leaves. Don't worry about what is in your sketchbooks (or WIP files) unless you plan to become another DaVinci where people will ogle your chalky fingerprints for clues. Even though I've been doing computer art for a couple of decades (mostly games), I still carry a small sketchpad when hiking so that if I see an interesting rock or leaf I can scrawl a few meaningful lines. It is a rare editor who sees my thumbnails! Carolly

Carolly, how do you undo something in poser? I didnt know it was possible to do that, unless you first saved the figure. Thanks, BDC

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BDC depends on what you did,under the edit at the top of the menue it has a undo you can use for some things others it doesn't work. Also you can go under edit and restore and restore the figure to the original settings. Also camera,lights and just certain parts of the figure. SndCastie

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cmd+z or ctrl+z are useful toggles. As SndCastie says, they don't work on every action you've taken (poses are particularly hard to undo). Restore brings you back to the last saved place, and is useful if you just need to restore the cameras without messing with your lights, or restoring the figure without changing your cameras. The "memory dots" are very useful, especially if you remember that there are 3 types of dot there. However, basically, I like to save off under other names. I've had too many flaky computers over the years. Even if the app doesn't crash, the beastie probably will, and who likes a corrupted file? Carolly

Ya know, ever since I was a little girl...and that's a long time...I have had pencil/sketch envy LOL. I can't sketch/draw on paper to save my life. I can see and I know what something should look like but I can't for the life of me get my hand to follow my line of thinking...notice I avoided saying "brain" LOL. Am I an artist ? ..you bet your sweet life I am. I can paint/draw/sketch digitally to my hearts content and "undo" until I get it right and I can't begin to tell you how much I have learned by being able to create on the fly, see the results of a mistake and undo and redo until it's right. You can't do that with pencil and paper. So Cbot, don't ever think that you won't make it. If it's in your heart and in your head, you'll make it. You can be whatever you want to be :) Kym

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Mike J wrote: "Do yourself a favor though and learn to draw. If you got frustrated drawing, you're likely to get frustrated modeling in 3D." Aside from box modelling, there is spline modelling. Basically, you can "draw what you want to create, and model from those guides. To me this is the only way to go, since I couldn't get a handle on box modelling at all. I also agree that you should d/l all free 3d modellers, and demos you can find and try them out. Everyone is different, and different apps vary from person to person as to what they find "easiest".

Yeah, spline drawing. Excellent point. The more powerful 3D apps allow you to import a picture as a background image for reference. Then you can outright draw splines around the picture, or clickity a bunch of vertex points in there over it and make curves out of them. That's another case where good drawing skills would be useful, because you could draw on paper your character from different angles and then scan it for that purpose.

Just my own personal view, but working from drawings is still keeping the would-be 3D artist tied to a 2D mind-set. Isn't it better to develop a sense of in-the-round design, and a feel for three dimensions, from the outset?

I reckon that a far better approach is to get hold of clay, plasticine or whatever, and actually model in 3D from the outset. Or build stuff from bits of wood, paper & card, or anything else you could use to construct, carve or model something.

That way, when you get to working on a 2D screen, you're far more aware of the virtual 3D void you're really building models in.

That worked for me, anyway. I very rarely draw (though I can), and then only rough working diagrams. I normally get straight to 3D.

For myself, I never draw - I compose my images first in my head. I then imediatly start putting together my ideas in my 3d program. This gives me much more freedom to explore. I almost never end up with my original idea. I pretty much treat my work the same way a photographer would, not as what a more 'traditional' artist would. I'll build a 'set', pose an arange my subjects, set up my lighting, and 'snap the shot.' That's why I characterize my work as "virtual photography" and not as computer art. :)

" Just my own personal view, but working from drawings is still keeping the would-be 3D artist tied to a 2D mind-set. Isn't it better to develop a sense of in-the-round design, and a feel for three dimensions, from the outset?" I don't see any reason that couldn't be done, but for alot of people the concept begins on paper. There is no one "correct" approach to it, but I've read articles from pros who say that some clients have demanded full color character treatments on paper from which to choose. In a situation like that you'd be SOL if you couldn't draw what you think they'd like, or you'd have to pay someone else to sit there and draw it for you as you explain. Depends also on what kind of 3D you're talking about - Like in Poser, for example obviously the included and purchased figures offer a good starting point, but if you're talking about modeling a whole new character fom scratch in a program like LightWave or Max, pre-visualization in one form or another is an absolute must.

"...some clients have demanded full color character treatments on paper from which to choose."

Yes you'd certainly have to produce initial visualisations if you were doing commissioned work. This applies whether it's for 2D or 3D graphics -- the client wants an idea of what he's getting for his money.

"There is no one "correct" approach to it.."

That's totally true. I still think, though, that somebody starting to learn basic 3D modeling (which was what the original post was about) should try to think in 3D from the start. Once you're adept at that, drawing out ideas can be useful, or necessary even, but you'll still be thinking about the object you're drawing from all points of view. And animators have to think in 4D :)

Message edited on: 01/25/2006 07:20

but if you're talking about modeling a whole new character fom scratch in a program like LightWave or Max, pre-visualization in one form or another is an absolute must. there is no way i could make anything if i didn't draw it out, first with splines. i need to at least have some sort of guideline before trying to pull things out into 3d space.

"I still think, though, that somebody starting to learn basic 3D modeling (which was what the original post was about) should try to think in 3D from the start. Once you're adept at that, drawing out ideas can be useful, or necessary even, but you'll still be thinking about the object you're drawing from all points of view." This is true. Got way off track, didn't I? ;) I was just thinking about how I got into it. I started out drawing when I was very young and kept with it, so for me it's a natural thing to design what I'm gonna do by drawing. On the other hand, I've been watching some video tutorials by people "box modeling", and these are from people who are obviously very adept at thinking in 3D, and flow through it effortlessly and quickly, thinking several steps ahead, and come up with very good figures in no time.

Deleted, due to the fact that this question about lighting already answered by foxseelady in the poser forum. Thanks foxseelady!

Message edited on: 01/25/2006 11:42

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" ~George Orwell

Learning to make models is like learning to play an instrument. You only fail if you stop practicing. And the more you practice. The better you get. Everyone can play an instrument at some level. And everyone can make a 3D model to some degree. How good you get depends on your discipline to conquer your weaknesses. Some people need years of practice to make something good. Some people do it in weeks. But everyone has the ability to do it. As long as they put in the time. But you have to really want it.

To become a 3D artist? Simple.

It takes the money to buy the software; and the hardware to run it.

After that -- your own creativity.

That's liberating.

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To become an employee, and to get paid for doing it?

Well, that's a little more difficult. And it can be not-so-liberating.

You make your choices, and you take your chances. One thing that nobody knows for certain, though -- and that's where you'll be and what you'll be doing five years from now. Best laid plans and all that.

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