aeilkema opened this issue on Jan 25, 2006 ยท 70 posts
aeilkema posted Wed, 25 January 2006 at 4:51 PM
I'm creating comics with the help of Poser 6. Currently I'm just rendering in P6 and converting the image to a grayscale, adding text and effects to it. I'd rather have the traditional handdrawn effects and outlined figures and such, so I'm looking at ART MATERIALS Vol.1 : Cartoon Shaders, but now I've noticed Manga Studio too. Does anyone know what it excatly does and how it can be of benefit for Poser users? Or is it only good for handdrawn stuff? Perhaps ART MATERIALS Vol.1 : Cartoon Shaders is a better choice, I've got no clue.....
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
philebus posted Wed, 25 January 2006 at 5:09 PM
Its going to be a while before we can be sure. The pro version seems to have a trace function to convert raster images to vector. You may need to do a lot of tracing, perhaps from the sketch render or the Art Materials. The pro version lists obj in its import formats - but how that whould be used in unclear.
zulu9812 posted Wed, 25 January 2006 at 5:14 PM
Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=1139014&Start=1&Artist=zulu9812&ByArtist=Yes
Manga Studio seems to be completely independent of Poser, and seems more like a paint program than anything else. Cartoon Shaders, on the other hand, is a collection of P6 materials that you can apply to your Poser scenes. I heartily recommend ART MATERIALS Vol.: Cartoon Shaders. It is the bee knees. And the creator is a really nice guy who'll give you help if you need it. In case you're not convinced, check out the link attached to this post. It's my latest gallery pic, done with the Cartoon Shaders pack.
ynsaen posted Wed, 25 January 2006 at 5:22 PM
not that my endorsement means much, But I heartily endorse the shaders pack. Manga Studio is a layout and design tool for 2D images. For most poser users, it won't do a darmn thing. For those who use poser to create comics, it provides them with an easier way to assemble their individual renders into effectively laid out panels for the purpose of telling the story more effectively, and adds in the ability to use vector outputs from other forms for that purpose. The object import will let you do stuff similar to inkulator (or whatever name it has now, lol), in that it will provide a sort of tracing of the outlines of objects -- great for backgrounds and sets.
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
SnowSultan posted Wed, 25 January 2006 at 5:29 PM
Thanks for the info, I hadn't heard anything about Manga Studio until this thread. It's difficult to tell exactly how it will make creating manga any easier except for the page layout and halftone features though. Seems to be what others are saying; it's a paint program specifically set up with options that would help speed up creating anime and manga for those who can already draw it. It will be interesting to watch, and at least the basic version is pretty affordable. SnowS
my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/
I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.
estherau posted Wed, 25 January 2006 at 5:45 PM
IT HAS SPEECH BALLOONS oops didn't mean to shout hehe - it can add tones to artwork too and can add lines to 2d renders. love esther i will be getting the mac version (cones out in late feb)
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
EricJ posted Wed, 25 January 2006 at 7:32 PM
One word of warning. Manga Studio is designed to create, well, Manga (go figure) that means no color. All of the tools, tones and what not are all in black and white or grey scale. I saw a demo at the San Diego Comic Con and the guy giving the demo told me that you could import color art as a background. I haven't gotten any confirmation of that. Personally I will be getting it, I'm just can't decide which version to get. I really wish they had a demo version.
estherau posted Wed, 25 January 2006 at 8:18 PM
i think we'll need the best version to convert lines to vectors as the lesser versions don't have this feature. love esther ps i think in photoshop i could colour the lines
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
mangatanga posted Wed, 25 January 2006 at 8:29 PM
Attached Link: Manga Studio For Poser Users!
Hi,Poser users can render comic style characters & create backgrounds but Poser does not allow you to create a whole comic book with panels and the effects associated with the creation and publication of manga. This is what Manga Studio does - with it, You can create Manga & Comics from Start to Finish!
Manga Studio allows you to do is create manga or comic characters in a 2D plane by either importing images from Poser (and 3D OBJs in the EX version) or other apps, scanning in images or sketching in your own characters. You would then apply tones and create or import background images to get the full effect of a scene!
The advantage for a Poser user is that you can import tons of poses for any of your characters into Manga Studio a JPG's or BMP's, and should you wish, you can sketch over them or add visual pieces such as hair or clothes and create a full comic book/story board with your character.
Now the differences between Manga Studio Debut & Manga Studio EX to a Poser or Shade Owner is the following:
Debut
-import JPGs & BMPs from Poser/Shade
-export into layered PSD's
-create full scale comics
-add screen tones (like adding color) includes over 1800 tones
-add concentration and focus lines
-add special effects
-great tool to get started out with in creating manga & comics
-only $49.99
EX
-firstly, as a Poser/Shade Owner you get -$100 off the $299.99 price - so it's only $199.99
-import JPGs, BMPs, PNGs, TGAs, layered PSD's
-import 2D photos such as photo images or Poser/Shade exported images and turned them into lines & tones
-import 3D Shade files using the Shade Exporter (you can import anything cars, backgrounds, buildings, figures etc...)
-import 3D OBJ from Poser by converting PZ3 to OBJ
-create full scale comics
-add screen tones (like adding color) includes over 3000 tones
-professional tool designed for production
-preferred manga creation tool at TOKYOPOP - largest manga publisher outside of Japan
I hope this answers all your questions! Please let me know if you need more info.
Fahim Niaz
e frontier
EricJ posted Wed, 25 January 2006 at 8:39 PM
I have a question. When you import 2d photos do they stay color or does the program convert them to grey scale?
MaryK posted Wed, 25 January 2006 at 9:25 PM
I'll wait until they have a demo to decide.
mysticwinter posted Wed, 25 January 2006 at 9:43 PM
Hawkfyr posted Wed, 25 January 2006 at 11:12 PM
To aeilkema: [I'm creating comics with the help of Poser 6. Currently I'm just rendering in P6 and converting the image to a grayscale, adding text and effects to it.] Have you tried just using Poser's sketch render as a base and them modifying that in PSP? I not very familiar with it but I've seen some decent work done with it. It seems like it would eliminate the conversion to grayscale. Justa Thot Tom
“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”
SnowSultan posted Wed, 25 January 2006 at 11:21 PM
I would really like to see some examples of the line and tones used on a pencil sketch or even better, a rendered Poser figure. Good solid outlining is really one of the only things holding Poser renders back when it comes to making comics, since we have many ways to simulate toon shading within the 3D programs themselves. And yes, I hope a demo becomes available soon. Thanks in advance. SnowS
my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/
I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.
mangatanga posted Thu, 26 January 2006 at 2:49 AM
Hi, In response to EricJ's enquiry, yes you can keep color on images you import. And SnowSultan, that's a great comment! I'll show you what Manga Studio can do. If you'd like to send me a Poser figure that you're interested in outlining, I'll post the before and after images in this thread. Manga Studio does some amazing outlining! A demo version will be available shortly within the next couple of weeks. Fahim Niaz e frontier
vilian posted Thu, 26 January 2006 at 3:39 AM
Quote: A demo version will be available shortly within the next couple of weeks. Can't wait to put my hands on this one !
Outdated gallery over at DeviantArt
Fics at FanFiction.net and Archive of Our Own (AO3)
aeilkema posted Thu, 26 January 2006 at 4:58 AM
Fahim thanks for all of the input, I'm looking forward seeing some of the results and playing with the demo. All others.... thanks for the input too!
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
DVTVFilm posted Thu, 26 January 2006 at 6:28 AM
I'd like to see some Poser6 converted examples--since all the great work in the Gallery on the Manga page seems all hand-drawn to me. How does it handle Poser? regards
aeilkema posted Thu, 26 January 2006 at 7:18 AM
I've sent some Poser rendered images to Fahim Niaz already, as requested, so hopefully we'll see some results soon.
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
electronicpakrat posted Thu, 26 January 2006 at 7:58 AM
Even though it's not necessarily manga related... (my apologies to those who already know about it) http://www.mycomicbookcreator.com/frontpage.php This can do speech balloons, lettering, etc for ~ $20 USD. A free trial is currently offered and there is also a forum. Just my 2 cents. :)
aeilkema posted Thu, 26 January 2006 at 8:32 AM
You can hardly compare Manga Studio and Comic Book Creator (I've got a similair one like it). But let's keep this thread on Manga Studio if possible, without to many hijacks in to.....
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
estherau posted Thu, 26 January 2006 at 8:41 AM
I notice the educational discount is only available in USA and canada. Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
scaramouche posted Thu, 26 January 2006 at 8:57 AM
Every image on e-frontier's site is in B/W or greyscale. Many of the images, even from different artists, also have the same font type. Are the fonts limited or can the program access the system fonts? I'd probably think about getting the demo if output was in color. But B/W reminds me too much of Sin City and old 30's-40's flicks. scara
Hanz posted Thu, 26 January 2006 at 12:23 PM
...guess you could colour the output *.jpg (or whatever format) in your favorite 2d paint app, though? ...or import the colours as flat layers and merge them with the B/W outline from inside Manga Studio? ...I'm gonna check this app out, thats for sure... - Hanz
DVTVFilm posted Thu, 26 January 2006 at 12:54 PM
Looks like we Poser folks will have to buy the FULL version ($199). If I read the specs correctly, the economical "debut" version does not import Poser files (OBJ)--and it does not import PSD, PNG or TIFF-- so even if one did export a poser scene into 2D- you can't maintain the Alpha layer (transparency) for layering your render and importing said layered 2d renders into Manga Studio Debut... thus making anything less than using the EX version most likely impractical. The product looks really cool for those who can "draw" freehand... So, I'd like to see an identical poser file/scene rendered be each version of Manga Studio (side-by-side) . I can provide a file if interested...
yelocloud posted Thu, 26 January 2006 at 3:39 PM
bookmark to follow an interesting software/thread. planning on buying this myself, but looking forward to a demo & examples of Poser/OBJ/Shade import & the resulting output from MangaStudio
SnowSultan posted Thu, 26 January 2006 at 3:58 PM
There are "templates" available at CP now that basically look like renders that we use for tracing in Manga Studio. Um, couldn't we do this in Photoshop or PSP too? The strange thing is that the figure they use doesn't look like any other out there...might it be that new figure they mentioned a few months ago? SnowS
my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/
I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.
Xena posted Thu, 26 January 2006 at 4:49 PM
bookmark
aeilkema posted Thu, 26 January 2006 at 6:09 PM
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
aeilkema posted Thu, 26 January 2006 at 6:13 PM
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
mangatanga posted Fri, 27 January 2006 at 2:01 AM
Attached Link: http://www.e-frontier.com/go/manga
Scaramouche, you can use whatever font type your OS supports in Manga Studio, the sky is the limit here. And in regards to the B&W, Manga Studio is an software application where you can import color images and you can export those color images too(from Poser or Shade or anything else), but traditionally Manga drawing has always been black and white and that's why you'll see that all our gallery images are black & white. You can definetely add screen tones to the images and those are used by manga artists like color is in photoshop. And to colorize your manga characters you can use your favorite paint program to do so. By the way, thanks Aielkema for displaying those images. Fahim
Teyon posted Fri, 27 January 2006 at 3:32 AM
Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12382&Form.ShowMessage=2557572
You all may want to check out my experience as a 2D artist using it also (As well as my experience as a purchaser). Have a look at the link. I'll be doing 3D stuff with it shortly I hope.
Hanz posted Fri, 27 January 2006 at 10:57 AM
aeilkema mentioned oliviers Art Materials...do give 'em a go, they are REALLY cool...
Message edited on: 01/27/2006 11:04
SnowSultan posted Fri, 27 January 2006 at 12:02 PM
Thank you for that link Teyon, it's a good one to watch. I did have the same first impression that Hanz did though, those renders look a lot like what Poser's sketch designer can do. I think we're going to have to wait for the demo to really know what Manga Studio can do for us Poser users. Thanks again, SnowS
my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/
I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.
Berserga posted Fri, 27 January 2006 at 12:36 PM
IMHO the tracing effects don't look very good. This is dissapointing as I had some hope for this feature in terms of importing backgrounds. I'd like to see how it handles converting a cel shaded greyscale image to screen tones. I'll wait for the demo to reserve final judgement though. I've been seriously considering doing a comic project for print with Poser and Mirage. It would be nice to take some of the guess work out of preparing the final project for printing though... In this regard maybe debut will serve my purposes.
Momcat posted Fri, 27 January 2006 at 8:51 PM
Are these images of Poser figures/scenes here done from imported objects or Poser rendered images?
aeilkema posted Sat, 28 January 2006 at 2:24 AM
From rendered images. My Manga EX download from CP is finally in, so soon I can show all of you some more results.
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
EricJ posted Sat, 28 January 2006 at 2:59 AM
Momcat posted Sat, 28 January 2006 at 8:39 AM
Thank you >^_^< Alrighty then..so it would still require work beyond just that render. That's good to know. I'm thinking of it not only from an illustrator's perspective, but as a content creator as well. Objects for use in this program would not need to be nearly as high poly for details, because details are added in, rather than rendered from. Can you also please show me how it would look with a human figure?
aeilkema posted Sat, 28 January 2006 at 4:54 PM
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
aeilkema posted Sat, 28 January 2006 at 4:55 PM
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
aeilkema posted Sat, 28 January 2006 at 5:16 PM
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
aeilkema posted Sat, 28 January 2006 at 6:09 PM
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
aeilkema posted Sat, 28 January 2006 at 6:12 PM
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
Momcat posted Sat, 28 January 2006 at 6:16 PM
Most excellent! I am looking forward to purchasing this, not only for myself, but for my daughter, who is working on her portfolio for her audition for our local Arts Academy high school. She's a budding manga artist/writer..saw this at e-f and went ..and I quote: "SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!" LOL Thank you so much for posting these :) Casey >^_^<
aeilkema posted Sat, 28 January 2006 at 6:29 PM
These are all Poser related images. If you can draw yourself you can have way more fun with it. The possibilities are endless. I've only been playing with it for a couple of hours now (and I really should go to bed, it's getting way to late), drawing some stuff by hand, adding some of my own artwork and changing that in Manga Studio and it's way to much fun. I'm going to redo a couple of my comics, Manga Studio, once I get my graphic tablet this week. Just a quick word.... Manga Debut cannot import any 3D related files, like I did, you really need Manga Studio EX for that kind of work. Also it cannot trace your 2D images for editing in Manga Studio at all, again you need EX for that. Imo Debut version isn't for serious artists at all, the best features are lacking.
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
Momcat posted Sat, 28 January 2006 at 7:00 PM
That's what we're going for(EX). The vector capabilities look very nice.
InfoCentral posted Sun, 29 January 2006 at 8:06 AM
I'd like to see a side-by-side comparison of Manga Studio vs. Swift 3D.
aeilkema posted Sun, 29 January 2006 at 11:04 AM
Hmmm..... Manga Studio and Swift 3D are geared at a completely different market. Manga Studio is mainly for creating manga and comics for print, Swift 3D mainly for creating Flash animations. Imo a side-by-side comparison of the two would be quite pointless. Even though Manga Studio is capable of doing vector drawings, that is mainly to ensure some of the effects do not get lost during resizing, but overall Manga Studio outputs rasterized images for print, that's it's strong point, ensure the upmost quality for printing your manga & comic books.
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
InfoCentral posted Sun, 29 January 2006 at 1:53 PM
Attached Link: http://www.erain.com/products/swift3d/features/exportoptions/
"Imo a side-by-side comparison of the two would be quite pointless. Even though Manga Studio is capable of doing vector drawings, that is mainly to ensure some of the effects do not get lost during resizing, but overall Manga Studio outputs rasterized images for print,..." A comparison is indeed in order as this is the Poser Forum and what we are seeking here is not what MS can do for 2D artist but what can it do for use 3D Poser artists. Swift 3D can output to vector, raster, or video formats. This makes if every bit as capable for print media.
aeilkema posted Sun, 29 January 2006 at 2:07 PM
OK, I see. Still Manga Studio isn't geared at 3D output at all, it's solely geared 2D output. A comparison wouldn't do any justice to either of the applications, since there not aiming at the same results at all. "A comparison is indeed in order as this is the Poser Forum and what we are seeking here is not what MS can do for 2D artist but what can it do for use 3D Poser artists." That is your perception perhaps, but I wouldn't want to give each poser user a dollar that only uses Poser for 2D results..... I'd be broke pretty soon. Manga Studio EX is geared at 3D users seeking to incorporate their 3D creations in traditional 2D manga or comic projects. It doesn't pretend to do any more then that and it doesn't. That is what this thread has been started for, read first the post. If your looking for a application similair to Swift 3D then you're really looking in the wrong place, Manga Studio isn that at all.
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
InfoCentral posted Sun, 29 January 2006 at 2:37 PM
Swift 3D imports 3D and outputs vector, raster, and video formats with a lot of control. So I guess this means that you could create a comic for print or web and you would be able to create a cartoon for print, web, or animated video. What one was made for and what one is able to do with it are two different animals. I use Adobe Acrobat to create interactive multimedia, something not too many people do and a feature not too well documented. Hummmm...
Teyon posted Sun, 29 January 2006 at 6:04 PM
Well,you mean besides the fact that MS doesn't require you have already purchased another software...? Seriously though, Swift 3D is a program for creating vector based flash content (which can also be rasterized). However, it itself can not assisst you in panel layout, speedlines and other comic book specific things that MS provides assitance with. Manga Studio is only about making comics for print or web publishing. There are no animation features, no toolsets for it in place. Swift 3D is object based, meaning: if you want to make a comic, you won't be making an entire book with in it but instead, you'll be creating individual content to port over to Flash, where you can piece them together to make a book. Again, for Poser owners who don't have Flash or have just handed over $50-$300 on Manga Studio and only want to to make still image comics, I don't think the $230 for Swift 3d plus the $400 for Flash Basic (BASIC!) is justified. We're talking $650 give or take for the Flash Swift3D combo versus $50-$300 for Manga Studio. Not taking into account the cost of Poser, which is assumed owned in both cases. It's just more cost effective and to be honest with you, the provided pre-sets in Flash are not geared toward comics. You'd have to create them on your own, while MS, on the other hand, is built for comics and only comics. If you want animated tid-bits in your art, then I guess the Poser>Swift3D>Flash>Web setup can work well but if you're just looking to make a comic, it's a lot of wasted material and expense when you consider you most likely won't use Flash to it's fullest extent.
InfoCentral posted Sun, 29 January 2006 at 10:16 PM
Attached Link: http://www.erain.com/products/swift3d/SysRequirements/
Flash...flash...flash...yeah I guess you can export it to flash format if that's what you want. But Swift 3D can export to vector, raster and video formats. So lets look at this Flash...flash...flash thing. Swift 3D can export to AVI, MOV, FLV, SWF, SWFT, EPS, AI, SVG, JPG, TGA, BMP, PNG, and TIF. Now of all this formats only 3 are of the Flash format so talked about. Very interesting coming from a program that is characterized as being "geared toward" Flash."We're talking $650 give or take for the Flash Swift3D combo versus $50-$300 for Manga Studio. Not taking into account the cost of Poser, which is assumed owned in both cases."
I believe the topic is "Manga Studio released....but what does it do for Poser users?" Knowing this I would say that not taking into account Poser ownership would be a poor assumption to make. Which is translated, as no addition cost assumed as ownership is a given. And finally, what is with all this you need to have Flash. Its for working with Flash. It is made for Flash. That is like telling me to work in Acrobat I need to use Illustrator or Photoshop because they work so well together.
Let us refer to the System Requirements. I don't see any mention of Flash in them? They arent mentioning you need Flash. So who is spreading this - you have to have Flash garbage. No true. Show me anywhere in the System Requirements that mentions a need for Flash at all. I again would like to see a side-by-side comparison because I believe that Swift 3D may product better 3D to comic/cartoon then Manga Studio and with a better color option and lower base cost. In other words a better fit for Poser owners who wish to produce comic/cartoon style renders for all types of media.
Message edited on: 01/29/2006 22:19
Teyon posted Sun, 29 January 2006 at 11:01 PM
Attached Link: http://www.erain.com/products/swift3d/
It's on the main page for the product in very big bold letters:" Swift 3D Version 4.5
The Ultimate 3D Tool for Macromedia Flash
here's a reason Swift 3D is the industry-leading 3D vector graphics animation tool.
Swift 3D is the only 3D application to directly integrate with Macromedia Flash and provides unrivaled vector rendering quality and output style options. Swift 3D's toolset and interface allow anyone to quickly create 3D content while providing a full set of advanced tools to grow into. With both vector and video export capabilities, Swift 3D provides the entire motion graphics design industry with a powerful, easy to use 3D solution that delivers high quality results for an affordable price."
I should also mention that the product tour specifically says "...in flash..."within the first 10-15 seconds.
A better comparison may be Swift 3D and Motion Artist I think.
Manga Studio doesn't require you have Poser. However, since you brought it up, we're in the Poser forum, therefore, it's logical to assume that the majority of people here own some version of Poser. That's why I didn't add the cost of Poser to the mix, as most of the members here own it.
Look, I'm not here to argue. I think that in the short and long of it, if you're looking to build a non-animated comic book in a fast and easy way, using either hand drawn art or OBJ's from Poser or another 3D program, Manga Studio is a good and inexpensive way to go.
Message edited on: 01/29/2006 23:06
Message edited on: 01/29/2006 23:10
EricJ posted Sun, 29 January 2006 at 11:14 PM
Well, Swift3d looks impressive but it doesn't do the following.
No Page Layout.
No word balloons.
No screentones (zipatones).
Can't use OBJ or Shade Files.
If you have Poser6 or Shade then Swift3d is more expensive.
Message edited on: 01/29/2006 23:14
Teyon posted Sun, 29 January 2006 at 11:32 PM
I should also add a thought. Swift 3D, while a very competent rendering and animation tool, was not created with the comic book artist in mind. If you have a less expensive alternative ($50 bucks is $50 bucks) to build a comic book, which is the whole goal here, that actually takes care of much of the work of creating a comic book, why go elsewhere? Okay, sure, you may not be able to get full color images out of Manga Studio, so plus one for Swift 3D.
Now let's say you want to make a comic for print. If you use Swift 3D instead, you have to render your model (I assume it allows for single frame rendering), take the render into a paint program and then make sure you create a new document that accounts for bleed, trim and live areas of the page (marking them off some how...maybe with layers or something). Then you'd have to draw out your panels, place your render, scale down the image, add in any halftones that you must create on your own, create special effects (speed lines, emotion lines, etc.),your word balloons and text, add in any sound effects and then send it off to your printer.
Manga Studio Debut starts off the same way. You have to render your model in Poser (or whatever app you use), take the render into Manga Studio, select a document that's pre-marked which suits your needs (some are pre-paneled), if you chose a blank page, create your panels, add in your halftones (there's hundreds to chose from), add in your special effects (again, hundreds to choose), add in your balloons (the EX version can do this for you), add text and sound effects then send it off to the printer.
So you see, the difference here is that Swift 3D requires the comic book artist to give more user input than Manga Studio. That's not to say Manga Studio does it all for you or makes you better at making comics but it does help you to do it right and do it quick.
Is that a fair enough comparison? I don't own (nor do I intend to buy/try) Swift 3D, so I can't make any image based comparisons. This above comparison is solely based on the idea that you want to make a comicbook and not how pretty the renders are.
Message edited on: 01/29/2006 23:34
InfoCentral posted Mon, 30 January 2006 at 3:12 AM
**" Swift 3D Version 4.5
The Ultimate 3D Tool for Macromedia Flash "**
That is very interesting because Flash is a 2D Tool. So I guess if you use the Flash plug-in to import into Swift 3D and would be able to transform/build your 2D assets into 3D then that really would be the Ultimate 3D Tool for Macromedia Flash! I would venture to say, the leading Flash to 3D Tool, unless you know of another one?
Don't forget about the Swift 3D plug-ins for 3ds Max and Lightwave as well. With these you can even export to Toon Boom format. I've seen the work of some Lightwavers who make cartoon animations using this plug-in and it is very good stuff. So, if you can compile an animation then you can certainly take a few stills out of it for a comic.
I have never used Swift 3D but I did download the FREE demo and I'll give it a try. For me, if I am going to do comics I want Cel Shading. Since MS is basically B&W single frames. I would have to compare it with Poser Sketch Designer and with Photoshop and a Sketch plug-in.
Now I'm not saying that you should go out and buy Photoshop (although it would be a good idea). I, and I'm sure many others already own it or Paint Shop Pro and could render out a Poser Scene to JPG, import it and apply the sketch plug-in to produce line art or that hand drawn look. Then compare the results.
There are plenty of FREE sketch plug-ins available. So perhaps the Paint Shop Pro/Sketch plug-in may be the most cost effective why to get Manga style output from a Poser Scene?
aeilkema posted Mon, 30 January 2006 at 4:09 AM
"For me, if I am going to do comics I want Cel Shading. Since MS is basically B&W single frames." B&W and (grayscale & tones). What I think you should do is read up on what manga is. From all of your post I'm just getting one big impression.... you don't know what the manga style is. Once again you're lokking at the completely wrong tool for what you want to achieve. Manga Studio is way beyond the Poser Sketch designer and Photoshop (or whatever) with a sketch plug-in. Manga Studio allows you to easily create a full manga and b/w toned comic from the start up using all the same techniques that you would when drawing by hand. First create a rough sketch as you would do with a pencil. Secondly add some more details with a darker pencil. Thirdly start inking the final sketched results with a pen. Then bring out accents and such with a marker. Next, add shades and tones. Then you add effects and word balloons. It's all the same as you would do handdrawn, but you don't need any pens, paper and other materials, it's all there. You cannot achieve this procces with Swift 3D or Poser. You could with Photoshop, but not half as easy and quickly and you would need a number of plugins to achieve the same. Now as cool extra's Manga Studio allows you to add 3D content, your own images, trace your images and such, but that is not it's main focus, it is to help artist achieve their goals much easier. For a manga artist or b/w/grayshade/tone comic artist, this tool is awesome, packs all the features needed and is pretty easy to use, unlike all the others around, none of them would easily or for the same price achieve the same results. For what you want you better have a look at ART MATERIALS Vol.1 : Cartoon Shaders over at RDNA. They may give you the looked for result for a good price.
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
Momcat posted Mon, 30 January 2006 at 5:49 AM
InfoCentral, Exactly what are you looking for here? You originally asked for a comparison between Swift 3D and Manga Studio. That's fine, but perhaps this is not the best forum to get that question answered as this is he Poser forum, and the original post concerned the benefits of MS to Poser users. As has been already noted, MS does not seem to have the features you are looking for, but it does have features that Poser users who desire to create manga style output for print may find optimal for thier works. Regarding Olivier's P6 Toon material presets: I've been playing with them all weekend. They are wonderful, and if you are looking at a Poser product to do cell shaded style images and animations that is, IMO, your best bet and value.
Teyon posted Mon, 30 January 2006 at 7:20 AM
Ease up gang. I think I understand what InfoCentral is looking at when he wanted a comparison. He was looking at the cel shading conversion and to be honest, just from the images I've seen posted here and the images I've seen posted at Swift 3D, Swift3D does a better job at cel shading then Manga Studio. However, as everyone else here agrees, that's not the main goal of Manga Studio. So it was a fair question, just not exactly worded in the best way I think. Anyway, InfoCentral, I hope your questions were at least partially addressed.
Momcat posted Mon, 30 January 2006 at 7:27 AM
I can certainly understandthat. I have to admit that when I first looked at the EX product info that I got the impression that it could do colors. It wasn't until I looked at the data sheet more carefully that I realized it was only greyscale output.
EricJ posted Mon, 30 January 2006 at 11:24 AM
I've found that RDNA's Cartoon Shaders work extremly well with Mnga Studio. The 2DLT import works much better with the toon shaded images than it does with the regular renders (or photographs).
Teyon posted Mon, 30 January 2006 at 11:39 AM
That's because there's less information in a toon render than in a standard render or photo, which actually puts less stress on the computer to sort out. :) I just got the EX version today (now I have both) so I'm going to start my indepth testing this week and hope to have a review before February ends.
DVTVFilm posted Mon, 30 January 2006 at 1:43 PM
Without the effect, the render is much the same as can be achieved by a Poser Toon render, or even Photoshop. And Oliver's P6ToonShader, too, can produce the same, if not better, effect. So, it will probably end up being a combination of what each program can achieve, -not one simple solution to turn a Poser render into something like real Manga. -But that's the fun of it, right?
Attached is a Poser--P6ToonShader--Photoshop image showing that P6ToonShader is quite versatile and a lot cheaper than $200. Too bad these programs came out concurrently, as they might not get the attention they deserve from the community, especially, if folks are undecided as how to spend their hard-earned money. I, for one, hope to see some gallery postings from folks soon.
Message edited on: 01/30/2006 13:46
Olivier posted Mon, 30 January 2006 at 9:00 PM
I don't really think "Manga Studio or my cartoon shaders" is a choice to put up that way. I tend to think they're bound to work like a charm TOGETHER! If you plan to do comics, no doubt: get Manga Studio and the shaders! :) Why get both? MS for its layout editor, tons of tones, effects, drawing tools, ballons, etc. The rasterize function is interresting but only if you don'(t have a 3D app like Poser. MS can deal with colors. So you're not bound to do BnW only. Though I admit it's not obvious to customize the colors at first sight. I haven't tried it deeply yet, but I have sensed a HUGE POWER in Manga Studio. Especially if you have a Wacom tablet and some drawing skills! For me it's the ideal tool and once again, if you can't draw, or short on delays, you can render your characters in toon style in P6 then do the composition in MS. I guess tat's the best cocktail! ;) So, my recommandation is: buy both! And prefer the EX version: much more power.
aeilkema posted Tue, 31 January 2006 at 3:11 AM
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
aeilkema posted Tue, 31 January 2006 at 6:12 PM
Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=2565393
I decided to make a review of Manga Studio EX. A general review for all type of potential MS users, but there's some relevant info for Poser 6 users in it also.Message edited on: 01/31/2006 18:13
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
Tucan-Tiki posted Wed, 01 February 2006 at 1:20 AM
I agree with aeilkema, this is what poser is missing.
Tucan-Tiki posted Wed, 01 February 2006 at 1:24 AM
Oh yeah I went right to e frountier to buy it and saw the price for it, I heard it was on sale now, But wheni saw 199.00 I left thier website without buying anything.