Another shot to the Poser foot. Apparently you can't read the CP Poser forum without buying a Passport. I went over to see if I could find some Brown Bear renders and find out if it was capable of anything more menacing than the Gentle Ben grin on the promo. (The poses are helpfully named "Bear-03," etc.) I'm not going to pay $59.00 to look at advertising. Sheesh. Even DAZ let's you look at most of their forums, except for one (maybe two these days) for PC members only. There are times when only my most cynical side can follow the reasoning of marketing people. I would think that the forums would be regarded as a marketing tool, not a revenue generator. And if the forums cost viewers money, then e-Frontier better find a way to demonstrate that they are more useful than, say, the free forums at PP. When I was looking at the locked CP doors, the message at the bottom said there was one person at the forums. I take it that was me. How exciting. For only $59 I can wander in a half dozen empty rooms. I think I'll walk around in my basement instead, for free. Too bad. I was ready to buy the bear. But not quite ready enough. And spending $59 hardly seems the best way to get readier. M

Wow...were heading that way. I paid myself to go into my empty basement. Now I am broke. Oh wait..I just check my other pocket. I got my money back!? Sorry..I just had to throw that in. But seriously...it is true. We do not need to spend to go into a forum.

Message edited on: 02/06/2006 08:03

CP's forums are all members only? Do we really need another public forum? Its not like they are the only ones to have a private forum.

My Homepage - Free stuff and Galleries

Attached Link: http://www.vistainternetproducts.com/bears.htm

Weeeell...as much as Im against polygon heavy models, but this bear looks pretty crude, just like a P4 Animal.

The discription says it has 10690 verts.
For a comparison, the OLD POSER 4 CAT has 9679 vertices, while the MilCat has 45026 verts !

Dunno, but I think a new mesh should be of superior quality than than the old P4 Animals.

If I needed a bear, Id rather get the DAZ bear and the textures and morphs from Lynes creations instead.
(SEE LINK)
Looks a lot more authentic to me, at least from the promo renders.

stahlratte

Message edited on: 02/06/2006 08:38

I made this same complaint over a month ago when I discovered that their "Customer Support" forum was a members only forum in spite of the fact that I had made several purchases from them and consider myself a paying customer for that reason alone.

The Forums have two sections. One is public, which everyone should be able to access. This includes the Announcements, Characters, Manga Studio, and Motion Artist Forums. The others are Passport Members Forums. Passport Members get the Customer Support Forum, Shade, and Poser Forums as a benefit, as well as the Passport Members and Passport Suggestion Forum. All other customers use the normal method of the E-mail/Contact Form using the Contact Us Link at the bottom of every page to contact Customer Support. Currently, there is little difference in the two, since most issues that are brought up in the Forums are resolved through the non-forum channels before the responses to the Posts in the Forum. It is not like there is a live CSR monitoring the Forum 24/7. I even recommend that everyone use the Contact Us Form regardless, since often you will need to include information that you do not want public possibly.

ratscloset
aka John

To put this in perspective. Let's assume you purchase Shade Pro, for a hunk of money. If you want to talk to other Shade users at CP, you also need to pony up a Passport. That's pretty short-sighted, if you ask me. CP is the "official Poser site" in the sense that it is affiliated with e-Frontier. If I own Poser, I would expect access to the Poser forum to be part of the deal. And if I had spent that hunk of money on Shade Pro, I'd be pretty disgusted at the money-grubbing mentality of the forum setup. Regarding the bear: One reason I want to see some renders is that it doesn't look all that great to me either. On the other hand, I've been pinin' for a bear for some time now, and DAZ + VIP is out of reach for now. Maybe I'll find a render somewhere else. M

hmm pretty standard. Maya has paid for only forums. so do Caligari... (theirs is $500 a year called the Proteam) seems more and more this is the standard way of doing things... shrug pay for it or not.. it's upto you. complaining ain't gonna do that much..

Last time I went to the Caligari site, their free forums still seemed to be up and running. There may be EXTRA forums for those willing to pay, but the basic product forums are open to anyone who owns the product. I agree this is a bad idea. It definitely flies in the face of common sense with regards to building community around a product. It seems like closing the public forum for paying but Non-Pasport customers costs far more in good will and consumer confidence thant they stand to gain through signup fees. Problem is, there's no way to measure lost revenue, only gained revenue. Oh well, it's not like this is the only stupid marketing decision I've ever seen by a software company. I'm convinced that a majority of people in the marketing biz end up there after asking themselves "How can I get my company to pay for drinks?" ;-D - Jimdoria ~@>@

• Jimdoria  ~@>@

oh there's free forums. basic. sometimes informative. but... want tech support from Caligari? thats $500 for the Proteam thank you, no exceptions. the free forums are like here. a free for all where anything comes up. but you pay for the techsupport. just like EF are doing...

Actually no they aren't a "Free For all" as you say Khai. I posted a question in the "Free forums" at CP and not only had it removed because the "Proper" area for asking that question was the "Pay Only Section" of their forums I was rebuked in a private message by the webmaster for having the temerity to ask for said help.

let me clarify before you start snarling again. I meant the CALIGARI free forums are like HERE - renderosity.

Rather I Renew mu subscription for next year is yet to be seen. It isn't simply $59.95 for the Forums. They are trying to improve the Passport membership perks. Presently there are PP Discounts. Everyone now gets a $5.00 Off Coupon Monthly. There are occassionaly freebies to PP Members Only. As a P6 Owner, I paid $29.95 for a year. 12 months x $5.00 = $60.00 I got $20.00 off Miki & Koji = $40.00 I got $16.00 Terai Yuki 2 = $16.00 I just consider the Forums something extra for PP Members. Granted, it totally depends on what your individual preferences and choices are. If all you want is Forums, than No - $59.95 wouldn't be worth it. Cheers DR

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

The interest of subscribing to CP Passport and the advisability of having pay-only fora are two different things IMHO.

Pay-only fora is a bad idea, always IMHO; First of all, the life of a forum depends on the number of people who frequent it. More people come and read, more chances there are somebody will answer some question: I've posted something once in a forum, and it took one month for someone to answer; The same question posted elsewhere was answered in less than a day. Need less to say I never returned to the first place again. Why would I?

Second, a forum doesn't cost much (some bandwidth), and is a good way to create customer loyalty. People taking their habits of chatting there will be coming back, and having customers flock around a store is always good for a store.

I would like to know if their response time for customer service improves when you pay to use their site. I have sent them questions via the Contact Us Form, and it has taken from 2 to 6 weeks to receive a response. Needless to say, that does little in my mind to promote the site. In addition I feel their responses have a tone of rebuking no matter what the initial question was. Yes, I have sent several enquiries via the contact form, no I have not purchased a passport.

re:The interest of subscribing to CP Passport and the advisability of having pay-only fora are two different things IMHO. I believe it was mentioned that there is also a Free Forum. And what is CP doing that is anything different than Daz does with it's PC Membership, "Members Only" Forum?? "Members-Only Forums" Rub elbows with the pros and learn new tips and tricks straight from the Platinum Club developers themselves As far as responses. Most often I get answers with 24 hours. Cheers DR

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

Oh Khai, Don't you start in on me now too. I haven't snarled at anyone today, though I was given good reason in that other thread. So far, all I've stated in this thread has been the true facts of what happened to me as well. Is there a full moon out today or what? Everyone's going off half cocked at me.

really? you jumped down my throat there you know. lets just call it quits since you won't see it that way at all.

Actually, I didn't. My comment about attitude in that thread that has been moved was aimed at the thread starter, not at you.

And what is CP doing that is anything different than Daz
does with it's PC Membership, "Members Only" Forum??

All the usefull stuff (and support) of DAZ is free.
Members' forum is just an advertizing gimmick (Have you seen any difference from the Commons Forum in there, except the occasional "sneak peak"?).

"Members-Only Forums"
Rub elbows with the pros and learn new tips and tricks
straight from the Platinum Club developers themselves

:-D

I've never seen any Platinum Club developper show me any tip or trick... As I said, an advertizing gimmick. You don't need it, you don't miss it, it's just there. The really usefull forums are free.

Now I have to admit I'm partial towards CP. I'd rather keep buying at the original stores, because my (long) lists of purchased items are there, and they prevent me from buying things twice.
So I only buy CP-specific stuff at CP (like Miki, Koji and Yuki), and that's not enough to justify Passport. Thatfor I'm not happy to see basic services (like support) reserved to Passport users. If they want to give them (DAZ-like) special prices and special freebies, go on, be my guest. But don't cut out pieces of the basic user's deal.

Message edited on: 02/06/2006 13:33

Well I appologised to you in IM and as far as I can see from my post 11 here, there was no "Jumping down your throat" in my post at all! I merely corrected a, mispercieved by me, comment that I thought was about EF, that's not jumping down your throat. There wasn't a snarl in sight. But I am starting to see werewolves everywhere with this full-moon-itus. o.O

All the usefull stuff (and support) of DAZ is free. IIRC DAZ does not officialy do "support" thru the fourm. there are times when the mods will flag a thread for DAZ (usually when there are lots of people complaining) and Brokered Artists visit and help out with their stuff but support is not done thru the forums.

My Homepage - Free stuff and Galleries

Sure, but most of the problems get solved through forum (user) support, that's the idea of having a support forum in the first place.

Well if it's called a "Support Forum" as it is at CP, I would think you could honestly and rightfully expect support from it.

Well if it's called a "Support Forum" as it is at CP, I would think you could honestly and rightfully expect support from it. I dont disagree. however, you cannot compair it to DAZ because DAZ does not offer a support forum.

My Homepage - Free stuff and Galleries

I don't see the comparison either and didn't make it myself. For the record, even though it pissed me off that CP went the way they did with their forums, I STILL bought my passport membership from them. I'm expecting good things from them this year.

Message edited on: 02/06/2006 14:17

I visit CP once in a blue moon -- usually to get SR updates for Poser. And they've got some neat freebies.

As for my regular shopping: I prefer to do it at the individual stores. If CP offers anything truly unique that I want, then I'll buy it at CP. But for my day-to-day Poser shopping, I don't see any need for a middleman to be involved in the process.

I have never once visited the CP forums. And if it'll cost me $59.00 to get in: then I most likely never will. Not unless if CP offers something else that makes it worthwhile for me to pick up a Passport. In that case, I'll get the forum access by default. Not because I sought it.

Message edited on: 02/06/2006 14:54

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Content Paradise? whats thats? LOL I never go there, if you sell stuff at CP you wont get a buy from me. I went there once recently just to see what its like since they started. the layout still sucks, the sections most of the time make no friggin sense! I just dont like it. Screw the money grabbers! :P

TemplarGFX
3D Hobbyist since 1996
I use poser native units

167 Car Materials for Poser

Quote - Apparently you can't read the CP Poser forum without buying a Passport.

Yeah, also, if you have trouble with your order, or you don't know who to use your passport you can't get help either. They DON'T answer their emails. The only way to get any help there at all is to phone them. Also, I have had a look at their forums, and you don't get very prompt help there either. I saw posts asking for help that went 5 days or more without a reply from a site representative. Shabby way of doing business if you ask me.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I really don't see the where the problem is... If you need tech support call them like you do if you need tech support at Daz. If you need a poser forum try this website: www.renderosity.com Although slow load times, the people there are pretty helpful.

BTW --

Don't misinterpet my earlier post. I have absolutely nothing against CP per se. It's just that I need to see some sort of value beyond forum access in order to convince me to part with $59.00.

Of course 'CP' -- as everyone knows -- is slang for "corporal punishment".........

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Well I'm hoping they actually follow through with their promise for a "Revolutionary New Figure" this year as promised. Yeah, I know....

I've never seen any Platinum Club developper show me any tip or trick... As I said, an advertizing gimmick. You don't need it, you don't miss it, it's just there. The really usefull forums are free. There are Member Only Free Items, Member Only Tutorials, and a few other perks in the DAZ PC Member Only Forums. The perk for Passport Members Poser and Shade Forums are more for sharing and talking than support. Everyone should go through the Contact Forms at CP for on Poser or Shade. The Mods will boot Passport Member or other that posts a Support Question in the non Support Forums. The top of the individual Forums have a Sticky that states this in each Forum. The Forums are not for support at CP. Some sneak in, but it is like trying to contact Sales or Tech Support at DAZ using the Forums, even PC members can not do that. There might be a member or a Mod that answers, but most often it is just to tell them to use the Contact Form. Put it this way... CP had no intention of having Support Forums, instead they added these for Passport Members. Something was not denied non passport members, something was added to support them.

ratscloset
aka John

Hey my forums are free..but nobody goes there :o(

My goodness, what a great way to discredit a company by presenting incorrect information.... There's a free CP forum section also and you can ask there about the bear in the character section. The free section isn't that huge, but it's growing. I don't think CP wants to even get huge forums, if you need help a number of the staff are visiting and answering here on a regular basis also. If you need CP support, you don't go to the forums at all, contact them directly. If you're a Passport member you talk with others about certain topics and apps, that's just an added feature to your membership, just like DAZ's PC forum sections and no one ever complains about those. I'm not a pc member anymore nor a passport member and a forum isn't going to win me over either to be a member. But CP is offering quite a good selection of forums for the members, while the DAZ always promotes the access to the pc forum as an added bonus, but I'm still wondering what that forum ever added to my pc experience..... It is very common for companies to have customer access only forums, I'm member of a number of them. Those forums are only valid to those using the companies applications or as an added plus for paying members. "I have never once visited the CP forums." you should really visit the forums first before you start talking about them and slander CP for something that isn't completely true at all.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

The POINT that all of CP's stanch defenders are missing completely is the FACT that CP has a forum called "Customer Support"! Period! To have a forum with that title and then to restrict it to only supporting Passport Purchasers instead of All Customers is what is a slap in the face to anyone who has purchased from them. I don't give a rat's whatever about what Caligari or DAZ have done personally as I'm not a customer of theirs. I am however a customer at CP. To me as a customer, having a forum with that title and not allowing me to use it til I coughed up my Passport fee is just a bad business practice. Period. You guys can defend them all you want and point at the Customer Service phone lines and emails (Which they don't answer), the point is they have an area in their forums that tout's itself as Customer Support and it's not available to all customers. It's not called Passport Support. It's called Customer Support. Do you get it yet? Customer Support? Should I repeat it again and again til you understand? Sheesh people! It's the English Language. Yeah, I know it's supposed to be a hard language to learn but it's a very simple concept. Customer support is where you help your customers out with issues they have with your product's they've ALREADY paid good money for. There's nothing slanderous about it. They say they're offering Customer Support and they're not. Period! They're taking Money for a Customer Support forum and then sending their talking heads here to say, if you want support call them, Use their email. This is NOT why I paid money for the Passport which offers Customer Support in the forums. Capesh?

Guys... keep it cool, please.

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

Attached Link: http://www.contentparadise.com/us/user/support.php

My goodness.... Mizrael, cool down please.... CP does offer support, even long before the forums exsisted. I'm not a Passport member and still get good support if needed. Just follow the link....

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

I haven't even begun to get HOT yet, but keep telling me to go to their "Other" support areas and I just might. I swear this thread reminds me of that scene in "Anger Management" the movie where the flight attendant kept telling a perfectly calm Adam Sandler to calm down and then tasered him for touching her arm.

Message edited on: 02/07/2006 05:39

Attached Link: http://www.contentparadise.com/forums/contentparadise/index.php?showtopic=241

They have added the ability to open and track support tickets. Look on your "My Stuff" page for the "Customer Support" widget.

"I have never once visited the CP forums."
you should really visit the forums first before you start talking about them and slander CP for something that isn't completely true at all.

Who "slandered" CP? I certainly didn't. My point was simply to state that I don't care to spend $59.00 in order to access the select forums. Given value other than forum-access to purchasing a Passport, then I wouldn't have a problem with spending the money. But mere forum availability alone will never attract me. There's got to be real value involved to purchasing a Passport. So far, the only thing about it which semi-interests me is a price break on figures like Miki, and the upcoming "revolutionary" figure.

In any case, I find such a statement to be quite odd coming from a source which never misses the slightest opportunity to take a quick dig at DAZ - in multiplied threads.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Well, in spite of the fact that I missed out on January's deal because of flaky transmissions of their "weekly" newsletter which I get some weeks and not others, they have had a nice $5 coupon savings and this month a free casual outfit for Miki thrown in for good measure. Last months coupon was $10 or so I heard, I never got the actual email with the coupon code in January for that one.

Message edited on: 02/07/2006 11:36

Attached Link: http://www.contentparadise.com/forums/contentparadise/index.php?showtopic=241

They already did offer it to non passport members and passport members alike and they've even improved it.... before this thread had been started. It may not be through a forum, but they do offer excellent support. So inspite of what some may claim, CP does offer support, I can't believe people even claim that they don't, I wonder who gave me the support needed since CP started last year? I've contacted them before passport exsisted, while passport exsists (although not being a member) and they gave good support, replying quickly and helpfull. Well enough on this matter, just follow the link and you'll see that they do offer support.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

the whole issue is a nonissue. you can get support outside of the forum. so whats the beef? there is none.

the whole thread is a non event. not important at all.

shall we get on with what THIS (Edit so I don't get lept on again) forum is actually for?

Message edited on: 02/07/2006 13:17

You can claim to have been jumped on all you like, it isn't true now any more than it was true when I posted post 11. Not only that, for someone who claims to be so sensitive that you detected anger in post 11, you have a lot to learn about accepting appologies when they have been sincerely offered instead of ignoring them and holding a grudge. People need to learn to tell the difference in correction and frustration and anger. Really.

Call it a non-issue all you like. It's obviously an issue with Passport members and those who have been turned off from buying into it for this reason. Calling it a non-issue is an insult to the people who have been effected by the issue.

Message edited on: 02/07/2006 17:12

I have no accepted any apology. get your facts correct. so. are the forums the only support option. yes or no. awating your 1 word answer.

You can wait forever for that 1 word, I didn't say you had accepted an appology, I said one was made and then ignored. Just as you ignore the fact that this thread is about a bad marketing stratagy that ofers a "Customer Support Forum" that isn't about Customer Support at all.

It's quite obvious to me now that anyone who chooses to disagree with any statements you have made is to be turned into some sort of evil aggressor when there's no evil or aggression in evidence.

I'm not the one who' has repeatedly hijacked this thread to say CP offers support elsewhere when the thread title isn't about "No Support" it's about "Misadvertised Support".

I'm sorry you can't see the distinction and I'm sorry you can't be big enough to accept an appology when it was honestly made, but I am not the evil aggressor in this story. And I will not be labeled that way. Edited to say you can stop harassing me in IM's just to tell me how much you don't like me or want to accept my appologies.

Message edited on: 02/07/2006 17:39

reported for personal attack on the forums as well as harrasing IM's.

The fact that it is not the only option for support has little to do with the original post, which said all Forums were for Passport Members Only at CP. With that said, no, it is not the only option. No more than any of the various Web Sites are the only option to post images that may contain nudity, Stores to shop at that do or do not allow nudity, Forums to post opinions about anything and everything, etc... These other issues have caused some, that think it is wrong to complain about limits of these sorts, to attack the person that complained in this case or one of the respondents that disagreed with the original poster's sentiment. This, I think, is a good reason to make Forums paid, even if it is a dollar. Once someone gets kicked out, the account they used to set up will require a real name and may allow the Site to truly ban them for life, instead of these users reincarnating themselves every time they get sent packing. I know we all know several like that, and it might give some that enjoy confrontation motivation to avoid turning posts into personal attacks or reading into a post a personal attack. I would pay a $1 to join Renderosity if I knew it would potentially curb this behavior.

ratscloset
aka John

Yeah you have been reported likewise Khai. There still hasn't been a personal attack. Show me where I called you anything or questioned your intelligence, heritage parenting or anything else that could honestly be called an attack.

"Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!" -Monty Python

Well, this thread's going nowhere fast. Say goodnight people.

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire