After Spending over $1000.00 on On E-Frontiers website, Buying Poser and Various other pieces of software. I had a system crash. When I went to reinstall Poser I was unable to find the DVD in wich I had backed the downloads from them up on. I then called there customer service, who informed me that I could no longer get this software. So now I have a grand invested in software that I DON'T HAVE. I would figure that $1000.00 would have bought me a least a Little Customer service!!! Jon WOW I wish I could treat my customers this poorly and stay in business!!!

That's why I always make multiple backups of everything. All my download doftware is on 2 CDs and an external hard drive. (when I went to install my copty of shade 7 on my new computer I discoverd that my CD had corrupted, so I used the other backup CD, otherwise I would have lost it.

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Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

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they give you 30 days to download your software and for $11.99 they will extend that to 2 years.

My Homepage - Free stuff and Galleries

You have your serial numbers ? I would have thought that's licensed to you, and no-one else. Surely that's evidence that you can claim. Gosh, hope it works out well for you.

Eternal Hobbyist

 

I understand that now, In all honesty I was so excited about finally being able to afford it I guess I didnt read well enough. I did make a back up. Even If I had made two back-ups (Good Idea BTW) I would have lost both. The movers Lost an entire box, with four large CD Cases in it. (All my games :( ). Pretty extinuating Circumstances. I know if a customer of mine fell under those circumstamces and lost his graphics / website back-ups that I produced for them. I would go out of my way to replace them, That's just me I guess LOL. Jon

Question. Seeing that you already bought the program why couldn't you have someone send you a copy of their CD? That should be legal because you already paid for it. Then all you need to do is contact the company again and have them resend you the serial number they issued to you, which they have on file.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

AFAIK, the eula doesn't allow you to send anyone a copy of the CD (even if they have proof of ownership).
You may have to try to see if e-frontier offers a replacement CD (I'm pretty sure they do, for somewhere around $25 I think)

Message edited on: 02/21/2006 21:06

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

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Ok, sorry.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I also found this on their website FAQ:
What is CD2Go Backup CD? Protect your purchase with a backup CD. Get a backup CD of your downloadable software mailed directly to you on a CD. This feature is only available as an additional service to the purchase of a digital product and cannot be purchased as a stand alone product. I don't know if it's too late to order this, but it would certainly be a lifesaver if you can get it.

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

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CD2go is also to late, it seems if I didnt purchase the extended thingy or the CD2go thing when I made my purchase, I am a forgotten soldier. And I fully agree with kathym, they dont give a flying fart about me as a customer why the heck should I respect they'er EULA. Jon

I always hate hearing stories like this.

Yeah. Back up. It's the cardinal rule of computing.

But sometimes -- even backed-up data can be destroyed. Sort of in the same manner that your house might get knocked down by a hurricane. You do what you can -- but sometimes things happen which are totally out of your control: despite the best preparations.

Sorry to hear it, man. Next time, perhaps make 5 back-up copies of everything. And store them in separate locations. Miles apart.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

this is truly a bummer. It makes me think twice about buying downloadable stuff in the future, especially from efrontier. I would say never buy anything from them again, but i know I'll buy P7 when it comes out, unless I'm broke, which is highly possible. Whatever happened to good customer service anyway? Yes, they have written stuff on their site, but , gee whiz, give a guy a break already. Maybe we should all petition their tired butts and make em wake up.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

Maybe more people would actually BUY their software if E-Frontier treated their customers a little better.

Hmmm ... something doesn't seem right. Did you remember to register your software? I would think that if you gave them your serial number you could download it again.

my gf called me paranoid for keeping 3 backups :) 1st is external hd (full software / items backup) 2nd is a set of CDs/DVDs in a huge cd album (hold like 500?) i protect it with my life!! grabs my shotgun 3rd set is just DVDs (unless copies of original CDs) which is kept (along with any original CDs) in a nice fireproof safe with is hidden under the floor (seamlessly, but carpet anyways) and has a burglar alarm on it too!! lol (so lock + code/alarm) ok 3rd set......maybe slightly paranoid....but i needed the safe anyways so why not :) oh and i'll just into a fire before i give someone my CDs :)

I wonder what they would do if you had purchased poser before it went e-frontier...do they have those customers documented? Scary they can't help you. I would get your serial from them I'm sure if you look hard enough you will find a copy laying around some where.

"ok 3rd set......maybe slightly paranoid....but i needed the safe anyways so why not :)" By any chance, do you leave the house every morning cleverly disguised as a janitor, and take an unmarked jet to a secret hangar bay in an undisclosed location somewhere in the middle of the Nevada desert?

---

Tools :  3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

System: Pentium QuadCore i7, under Win 8, GeForce GTX 780 / 2GB GPU.

Some time ago a CD wallet of mine was stolen from my truck. I went about to all of the software companies and most replaced my software for free or for little charge. I DO KEEP REGISTRATION NUMBERS in a digital file located on my hard disk (and backed up in redundancy). Curious Labs was one of the FIRST companies to respond to my e-mails and sent me Poser 4 Propack and Poser 5 CD-ROM packages for the price of shipping. Sorry to hear e-frontier isn't going to be as understanding. Sorry to hear about your troubles and I do hope everything works out. Rance

(In fairness, nevre had a problem with e-frontier, or content paradise, or any of that stuff. Sorry to hear you lost your software and all, but look at it from their point of view. Unless you can supply them with an order number/serial number for the software, then they have no proof that yo have actually purchased the software you claim you did (I'm not saying you're lying, siunce it seems clear you're not - this is just their point of view). Would you really give $1000 of software to someone who gave you 'extenuating curcumstances' as to how they lost all copies and backups of their work, without any proof of original ownership? It's a PITA, but I'm not sure that damning them to Hell, beginnig to use pirate copies of the software, or anything similar is really going to help your case further down the line. jonthecelt

i wouldn't really blame EF for your crash, or the reinstallment. EF is excellent in help. i mean if you bought the product and it doesn't work right on your system, you feel justified by blaming a respectable company? As for spend over a $1000, so what? i'v e spend more than that on their products ( which i might add never had problem. You have to look at it this way , and of course you don't , but the fact is you did buy the products that you said you spend a $1000 on. it might be time for you to take a chill pill, take your next $1000 ( where ever you may freely spend it and buy some food for thought, that might help yourself in figuring out what your major malfunction is on your system. you know even brokers are not perfect. you know like DAZ and othe sites. After all you are a member of Renerosity, i'm quite sure there is some here to help you. that is if they don't ban you for making alligations of stealing or ripping you off as you put it. either get with the program or leave it alone fo a while, take a breather. Being a Professional like you might be and knowing i am,, should know this, that good things come to all who wait. don't make a mountain with mole hills. and have a wonderful day.

I received a PM apparently from "gekart". I am sharing this information here because I think this should be correspondence sent to e-Frontier, and not to a private individual: "Instant Message from gekart: If you have a copy you can upload to my FTP I would really appreciate. I will be happy to send you a copy of my invoice from E-Frontiers in order to prove I have purchased a lisence. Jon" I am not comfortable with this request. Sorry, I do not wish to assist.

Eternal Hobbyist

 

If anyone else recieves an IM like that one, contact me or any of the other mods. That is in violation of renderosity's warez policy.

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

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... but I wouldn't post it in public. I must say I'm surprised at this story, because most companies I've bought from have been happy to make downloads available again if required. They have records showing I did indeed pay for the thing, so why shouldn't they?

i find it interesting that the damaged party is now being told to spend another thou somewhere else. He, if he indeed bought the stuff, should get aa copy of the program no questions asked. efrontier has to have record as well of the purchases...there should be no question.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

RE: The movers Lost an entire box, with four large CD Cases in it. (All my games :( ). Do the movers have insurance? I think I would go after the movers first for that Missing Box. No doubt that you had a resonable expectation that they would safely deliver your goods. If the movers lost my BMW Bike, I wouldn't be going after BMW for a replacement. Cheers DR

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

Your BMW wasn't downloaded off the internet either. If you buy a downloaded program one would expect to be able to redownload that program.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Acadia- RE:Your BMW wasn't downloaded off the internet either. If you buy a downloaded program one would expect to be able to redownload that program. My point was that it wasn't the manufacturer that lost the product, it was the movers. As I said before, I would hold the movers accountable. Cheers DR

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

The product isn't "lost". The original product was downloaded off of the internet. The burned copy that he made is the one that is lost. His original is safe and sound on the internt, but e-Frontier won't give him a new link to redownload it. To me that is no different than having bought the boxed version, made a copy of it and put the original in e-frontier's safe keeping and then told "tough noogies", you lost your copy and we're not going to give you access to the original, even if you did give us money for it.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

And meanwhile while he waits to resolve the issue with the movers he's dead in the water as far as software goes. Geez, the guy is venting over his situation and we're ready to lynch him. I'm sure if any of us were in his shoes we probably wouldn't be thinking clearly and would make rash decisions. Give him the benefit of the doubt. In any cae, I think e-Frontier should have worked with him a little. As has been said before they should have records on file of the purchase. Could he not prove his identity somehow (ie credit card or checking account that was used)? I'm not expecting them to just roll over and give him the software, but they could at least work with him a little. If he went after the movers there's no guarantee he'd get his stuff back from where ever they've lost it. Dave

I agree with you Mariner, if the movers lost material worth several $$$, you can be sure they'd hear from me! When we moved the last time, when the movers brought our furniture in the house, they hit the wall with one of the beds and made a hole in it, they were responsible for the damage done to our house and they had to pay for the repair... I trust them with my goods when they move it, I pay them so that all of it will get to my new location safely, if it arrives broken or is lost on the way, it's their responsability. Still... I also think if he can prove he purchased it, they should allow him to re-download it even if he has to pay a little extra in order to get it... I don't understand why they wouldn't want to do this for one of their clients...

Lucie
finfond.net
finfond.net (store)

I completely sympathize with him actualkly. If soemthing like this happened to me, I'd bitch at them and anyoneelse that would listen, but the simple fact is that asking for replacements on renderosity is a violation of renderosity's zero-tolerance policy. The only thing I can suggest is to keep bugging e-frontier until they do something. And when you eventually do get a replacement, make multiple backup copies of it and keep them in more than one place. Maybe even make one copy to keep in your desk or locker or whatever at work, just in case the ones at home are ever lost. and kathym, nobody "tattled" on you (or anyone), I deleted your post when i noticed it (because it also contained a TOS violation).

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

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You could have chosen a different title for sure.... EF didn't rip you off at all. I'm very sure that if you show proof of purchase you'll get a replacement. If you don't have proof of purchase that is a huge problem. Then you better sort this thing out with the movers. You're complaining about and blaiming the wrong party, imo.

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Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

I thought digital river handled e-frontier's downloads? Check with them they may be able to look up your info based on your name. Don't yell or complain, just ask them for help. If I remember right you can also call them which is what I would do over email. Remember, they didn't lose it, so if you get snippy with them they will have no reason to help you. If you paid with a credit card that along with your name is proof to them. Marque

I'm backing my content up right now!

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Attached Link: http://www.simpleshare.com/

If anyone's looking for a quick & easy way to do your backups -- then you might want to consider using a network drive.

I use this model, from a company called SimpleShare. The drive is a snap to hook up to your router or hub; and you can easily set up automatic differential backups from all of your PC's. Or Mac's. Linux, too. Get a couple of them & you've got a great redundant back-up system for your data.

It's also easy to map the drive across a network.

I don't know how others feel about it, but constantly burning DVD's or CD's gets to be a time-consuming hassle for me. I'd rather take a less time-intensive back-up solution like this one.......because I'm inherently lazy.

I'll still do DVD backup's from time to time. But the network drive thing is a WHOLE lot easier. And faster.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

BTW -- another issue about backup DVD's involves storing them. It isn't as bad as it was back in the 3.5" disk era, but it can still get messy. Not to mention the time that you end up having to spend hunting for something that you just know that you'd saved onto one of that pile of disks over there........... Creating file lists for each backup DVD is an additional time-consuming task all its own.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Attached Link: http://www.whereisit-soft.com/

For cataloging CD's and DVD's and the files listed on them, I HIGHLY recommend "Where Is It?" I have hundreds of backup CD's and DVD's and thanks to that program I can find things in a snap.

'Hundreds' of 'em, eh? So do I -- but I can't say that I like it that way. Even with great cataloging software to help out. For me, the redundant hard drive thing works best. It's the one solution that requires the least amount of direct action on my part. It's the Lazy Man's way.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

i've been building a "juke box" sort of thing for my CD/DVD simple custom program keeps track of them all :) i got tired of switching 6 CDs just to install a game!!

I ran out of CDs during my last reformat and I still needed to save some files so I decided to upload them to my website as an alternative so I wouldn't lose them. I have loads of web space so when I finished my reformat I left certain files on my site as a way of safekeeping. This way if my hard drive crashes, or a CD save is corrupt (which tends to happen to me alot), I can always download it off of my website. Now I use my site to not only hold my web but also content that I want to backup such as programs. This thread reminded me that I hadn't yet done that with my Poser 6 upgrade, so I'll do that this evening.

Message edited on: 02/22/2006 13:57

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

the plan I have is to collect around 10-12 DVD ROM drives (any speed) and put them into 1 case (I have a good tower for this in the trailer already...) hook 'em all up to IDE Controller cards on an old Pentium II (got a few of those stashed as well lol - they get thrown out reguraly at the Uni here and you can grab 'em with the blessings of the IT dept there) and build myself a Diskserver... all my main archives safe and sound at at instant recall... :)

Attached Link: http://www.e-frontier.com/article/articleview/18?sbss=435

Posted for Tech Support: Dear Jon, We'd be more than happy to arrange a replacement download of your missing software- all we'd need would be verification of ownership. Even the email address you used when you purchased the software would be sufficient, provided you purchased it from our webstore. I've attached a link to take you to our Helpdesk Web form; this is the best way to get in touch with us. I don't see any records of your contacting us, though- did you call the office, or email someone directly? Did you contact Digital River, the company that manages our Web store, or did you contact us? I apologize for any mixup in communications. Regards, e frontier Technical Support

Cause no matter where you go there you are. All seemed a bit odd to me. Smacked of mis-communication. I'm sure all of this will be worked out. In the mean time back up and backup again. Best Wishes All, Rance

Gekart stated that he "called their customer service" and was told that he could no longer get the software he had.

Quote - I then called there customer service, who informed me that I could no longer get this software

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Khai .. could you elaborate on that diskserver thing a bit ? thanks.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

simple enough really I'll put 3 IDE controller cards ( http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=715455&CatId=508 for example ) giving me with the onboard IDE 16 channels.. I then put in 1 HD, (to hold the OS, say a 6GB), and fill the rest up with old DVD Rom drives you can get 2nd hand and cheap... add in a network card and your're good to go.. I've seen (and used) a similar idea in schools... for my usage, I'd be looking at say 6 disks of texture librarys, 1 of drivers etc etc it's not that hitech.. but it works and its a good use of an old machine like a Pentium II thats still perfectly ok.. just not as fast as it once was...

I'd say back up to a server on the 'net. CD's DVD's network drives etc., even keeping a copy at work are fine ideas but... Can you say Katrina? The best disaster recovery plan should probably include geographically dispersed backup.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

I'd say back up to a server on the 'net. CD's DVD's network drives etc., even keeping a copy at work are fine ideas but... Can you say Katrina? The best disaster recovery plan should probably include geographically dispersed backup. i totally agree with this. i live in Florida, and lost alot of paperwork due to Francis. i couldn't find my poser4 serial for the longest time...so i retryed p5, learned it, and then found the furslugginer number. i have copies of my stuff at work, and uploaded to our company website, as well as cd and dvd backup....the backups probably wouldn't be much good in a katrina situation, i think.

whenever I have had a product or service complaint (which I have had many, many times in my life) and I contacted the company, I NEVER took the first person's word for gospel if I WAS told NO...when that happened to me, I ALWAYS told the person who gave me that answer that I wished to escalate my complaint to the next level, someone above the "frontline" person you first get to talk to...they are, after all, frontline staff, and frontline staff do not have much authoriity...they can only quote you their customer service policy, and even then, I have known many frontline staff to quote wrong...not necessarily on purpose, but it does happen...can you imagine how many calls they must field a day??

so, you called E-frontier's customer service and the first person you spoke to told you you were out of luck, and you threw your hands up in despair and start an "E-frontier ripped me off" campaign in the rendo forum?? what is that going to solve? if you have the proof of purchase that you say you do, then ask to speak to a supervisor or manager, or someone in authority, and I'll bet you dollars to donuts that they handle your claim to your satisfaction...

I can sympathize with your frustration, but learn to properly navigate the complaint process before you start making claims of being ripped off...that is a serious, defamatory statement to make publicly...one that can have more repercussions on you than you think...I feel a little sorry for you and your situation, but I am more disgusted with your behaviour than anything...you catch more flies with sugar than you do vinegar ;P very very very rarely have I not received satisfactory responses to my complaints... edit to add: btw, asking others to illegally send you copies of their software after a feeble attempt to get it legally from the company doesn't do a hell of a lot to demonstrate you are an honest person in an unfortunate situation and not someone just trying to scam a copy of the software for free...I'm not saying that's what you're doing, it's just how your haviour comes across...kinda makes me stop and go hmmmmmmmm...

Message edited on: 02/23/2006 10:42

Say what you mean and mean what you say.

not more than an hour ago I went in and re-downloaded my P6 and Shade. All I needed was my email addy and password. It even had all my PSP downloads there too

In a world filled with causes for worry and anxiety...
we need the peace of God standing guard over our hearts and minds.
 
Jerry McCant

Normally you can re-download stuff for a couple months after you buy it, but they also have an extended download service where for an extra fee you can re-download it for the next 2 years. The original poster's problem was that his downlaod period had expired and he didn't order the extended download service. BRW, on the subject of these off-site "X ripped me off" rants, It is really an exercise in futility to post these kinds of threads on other sites, as there is nobody here who can do anything to help. The only ones who can do anything are the people who control it (in this case, e-frontier), so starting a thread like this one is really a waste. Got a problem, take it up with whoever you gave your money to.

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

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The 7 rules of computer usage: (1 Backup (2 Backup (3 Backup (4 Only REAL men (& women I guess?) don't do backups (5 Several backups all located together in same place as the original = no backups (6 Don't throw accusations around without very good reason (7 Don't blame someone else for your own mistakes :] Fish

Is gekart even with us anymore? We haven't heard from him/her since the beginning of the thread. Seems with Krazik's reply apologies should be in order. At least let us all know how it works out. Best Wishes, Rance