The phrase "Super Hero" is jointly trademarked by Marvel and DC Comics...
"Comics Creators Search for 'Super Hero' Alternative" by Neda Ulaby c2006 NPR

Marvel and DC have decided to enforce their trademark of "Super Hero"(tm). I would advise that anyone with any Poser or other content featuring the words "Super Hero"(tm) purge those files immediately. Such material including those featuring "Superhero" and "Super-Hero" are in serious violation of a trademark duly registered by two responsible corporate citizens. It is illegal as well as unethical to use materials that violate the trademark protection afforded these corporations in our civil society. Leaving any such materials on your hard drive or in your archives would only invite the illegal miss-use of these materials by others with less moral or legal sense then yourselves. Please notify anyone who you believe may possesss such illegal materials so they will be able to protect both themselves and Marvel and DC in this matter.

*My use of the material excerpted from the NPR website is for journalistic purposes only. My use of the phrase "Super Hero"(tm) in this post text is for journalistic and educational purposes. I reproduce these items of copyright and trade mark protected text in good faith that neither Renderosity nor Bondware will use the phrase "Super Hero"(tm) as it appears in this post or the material derived from NPR for commercial purposes.

Please use the phrase "Super Hero" responsibly.*

they can try to trademark any word-combination they want, but that's no guarantee they won't be laughed out of court if the right people oppose it.

How bout' "Super Hiro" ?

 Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things!  ; )

"Ultrasuper Hero" ... or ... "Super Heroine?"

"Megasuper Hero?"

"Supreme Hero?"

"Stupid Hero?"
NaySayGuy wanted me to ask about that one.
If it's not trademarked, ......... he wants to use it.

Oh, and don't forget "Souper Hero" ... who is always on a liquid diet.

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Thats just down right stupid. And to DC and marvel I say: Super Hero This

Just enjoying the Vue. :0)

ROTFLMAO !!!! Thanks kathym. ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

I'm going to trademark the word tricycle. From now on, all use of the word tricycle requires my approval, granted only upon payment of a hefty licensing fee. :P

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

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I think I'd switch to Superhero or SuperHero which arn't trademarked. God, what have we come to when companies own bits of our language?

Ok, then I'm gonna copyright E major, A major and B7. I reckon some of them old Blues cats are gonna be owing me big bucks. :D

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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:) I think it is a great example of silliness that truly obstructs those who try to legitimately protect their efforts. Do you have a direct link. :)

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

is it april 1st yet :)

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

........ gettin' awful close!

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Marvel and DC Comics sure do appear to have alot of web pages.

IMVHO

;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Attached Link: http://goodcomics.blogspot.com/2006/03/superhero-trademark-faq.html

Additional interesting(?) info at the link. cheers, dr geep ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Attached Link: NPR

The link may be propriatal information but I guess it will be alright for me to post it I guess...

You can check AP, Reuters, New York Times, etc.

I am not joking, if we as a community take seriously our commitment to Intellectual Property Rights we must honor them whether we think we will be found out and/or prosecuted or not. Stealing the phrase "Super Hero"(tm) isn't right just because you don't think you'll get caught or that if you do get caught there won't be serious consequences!

I recommend you do a thorough search of your storage media to delete any offending material but you should make sure to dump the search term from your file management software as soon as your done. I know that using the term in a search is a grey area here but probably the lesser evil is excusable in attempting to rectify the greater evil. Do not forget to look for any "hidden" offences such as morph targets and textures that use or contain the protected phrase "Super Hero"(tm). Since "deleting" or "emptying" from the Recycle Bin(tm) doesn't actually destroy data it might be advised to use a "shredder" application or to apply 32-bit encryption prior to deleting offending material.

I know I can trust the people here not to take such a serious matter as some sort of joke.

Attached Link: http://www.boingboing.net/2006/03/18/marvel_comics_steali.html

Excerpt from the Attached Link: *"Here's a proposal: from now on, let's never use the term "super-hero" to describe a Marvel character. Let's call them "underwear perverts" -- as Warren Ellis is wont to -- or vigilantes, or mutants. Let's reserve the term "super-hero" exclusively to describe the heros of comics published by companies that aren't crooked word-thieves."* ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Oops ........ sorry momodot. Them x-posts will byte you (almost) everytime. ;=[

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Hmm...how about "Exceptionally-Abled Person?" Seriously though, I think this is taking things a bit far. "Super" and "hero" are two words in the English language. Does this mean anyone can choose a combination of words, trademark them, then have exclusive rights to those words in that combination? If so, I'm going to check on trademarking "Shit Happens." If I get it, I'm going to demand a ton from those bumper sticker and button companies. And how about "Stop the war?" OOOOhhhh! That'll bring a fortune! Can't paint your sign unless you get my signed permission and pay my fee.

Message edited on: 03/27/2006 19:11

gimme a break ~eyeroll~ I'm with Kathym & Geep...get a life.

"Superb Hero" ???????????????????????????

Wadd'ya mean I can't trademark the word "Superb?" ............ Y knot?

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Sorry .......... NaySayGuy wants me to keep trying.

I guess that's because I told him that ....... I found him very trying.

;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

I have trademarked the word "the" and the letters "a,e,i,o,u". I am being very generous in allowing anyone to use them on receipt of a $1 fee. Does anyone know of a nice island for sale in the south seas.

"I know I can trust the people here not to take such a serious matter as some sort of joke" I can. This whole trademark thing is becoming a big bunch of sweaty steamming bullsht. TV's on in the background. 24 (as in the number) and I'm loving it are trademaeked. Words and phrases we've been using for years without saying or paying. It's all bllocks and does more to put the average guy off respecting trademark/copyright. < / grumpy giving up nictotine mode off>

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

I claim the letter 'e'..;) There's more superhetero (what the hey, why borrow trouble..;) than Star Trek..;) now if I could patent 'nipp**s'..I could own prawnography..;)

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

I think they're crazy and I have no intention of deleting any offending material from my hard drive. They wanna come after me let 'em. I really don't give a crap. David

Kathym, my thoughts metamorphed into graphic detail! ;) Thanks! I'm going to trademark every word in every dictionary. Then you all will have to pay me to write, read, speak, listen, or even think in any language covered by dictionaries. Sounds like a plan - as idiotic as theirs that is...

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

David, I don't know how you can cop that kind of attitude. Would you steal from the church Poor Box if you thought you would not get caught! I don't want to be mean, I am just disappointed, disappointed and saddened. Marvel and DC are two honest and caring corporate entities, they deserve to have people respect their intellectual and creative capital... I understand that you feel the way you do now, David, but I know that on further reflection you will understand that taking the proper measures to protect Marvel and DC isn't just the right thing for them, it is the right thing for you.

sorry, momo, but it IS a joke. as geep pointed out, the terms are already in such widespread use that whatever claims they think they have on the term are rendered invalid by the common use of the term.

SUPERHERO! LOL...This world is starting to spin out of control!

Bookmark...

"You don't know what we can see
Why don't you tell your dreams to me
Fantasy will set you free." - Steppenwolf

You guys talk practicalities but what about the moral realities? Don't you know in your hearts that respecting this trademark is the right thing to do whether it is enforcible or not? Who in this forum would suggest that distributing a figure with rigging substantially similar to that of DAZ 3D's Victoria 3 is morally right? I think it would be hypocritical to turn our backs on the moral rights of an individual or company simply because they are not members of the community. Society is our community!

kathym I second that hand gesture. ;)

The corporations oppression is unrelenting. o_O

I guess we can call them Spandex special powered beefecake people or spandex-superpowered-beefcake-people?

Hehehe... :P

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

momodot, are you serious? "honest and caring corporate entities"?? Have you ever worked for either of them??? This entire thread is fluff and knee-jerk. The entire issue revolves around two corporate entities trying to portect the sale of items witht he word "super hero" in them. They do NOT have police powers to search anyone's drives or homes. This is scaremongering at best.

i got one....super men in tights!!! this so reminds me of paris hilton claiming the words "that's hot" as her own.

Since Marvel and DC are not involved in the 3D market, the use of the term "super-hero" in Poser-related product names is perfectly legal.

Delta makes water faucets. Delta is a major airline. Both are trademarked names and different companies, but, as they do not compete in the same (or similar) product market, it is a non-issue.

Message edited on: 03/27/2006 20:36

And I quote "I recommend you do a thorough search of your storage media to delete any offending material but you should make sure to dump the search term from your file management software as soon as your done" - now they're going to hack into our systems and file lawsuits because of things on OUR hard drives? It would be they who were violating laws.

Just enjoying the Vue. :0)

I don't agree with you momodot. I work for a company that has to trademark catch phrases for our particular product. Usually the only place that a trademark applies is if you're in the same field/market where it is registered. Personally I think you're blowing this whole thing out of proportion. And I think that Marvel and DC are too full of themselves to think they can get away with it. What about Dark Horse and the other comic companies out there? Are they supposed to stop using the word? Marvel and DC trademarking that word is like Proctor & Gamble trademarking "soap". It's too common of a word to be able to enforce. David

Does it matter if Marvel and DC are honest and/or caring? They have a registered trademark. People in these forums respect the right of DAZ to block anything "substantially similar" to their products. People respect the unstated "intentions" of people who published Poser content on the internet without any re-distribution restrictions back before the turn of the century. Why this cavalier attitude toward the integrity of Super Hero(tm) as a privately owned piece of intellectual property? Do you think maybe we shouldn't take any of this stuff seriously?

A "Thermos" by any other name is still a thermos. I hope someone remembers the lawsuit about the Thermos

PoserPro 2014, Windows 7, AMD FX-6300 6 core, 8 GB ram, Nvidia GeForce GTX 750 Ti

Attached Link: Comics Creators Search for 'Super Hero' Alternative

I think you need to listen to the report at this link. I think if you listen to the report you will find that as long as you use the term "casually" you are ok. It's when you go and use it as the title of a product when you might find some trouble. Especially if it happens to be a comic book! Don't go making a mountain out of a molehill! David

Soap? .... Hmmm ...... How about soup? Mmmmm ......... good! Oops, I think that phrase might be (gasp) trademarked. ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

I did notice that in Pixar's "The Incredibles" they used the term "supers". I thought at the time that it was just to set a kind of casual mood for the film (i.e., there are so many of them and they're so commonplace that people have abbreviated the term, like "phone" for "telephone" and "tv" for "television", etc.). It does work on that level, but now I see they were avoiding any hint of trademark violation. By the way, I think DC and Marvel are full of crap on this matter, but I'm not a court, so my opinion isn't going going to change anything. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

Usually the only place that a trademark applies is if you're in the same field/market where it is registered. Comics, graphic novels, graphic art, animated film and live action movies, and licensed merchandise v. Computer Generated Art and Animations. It is an interesting matter...

Anyway, I didn't want you to get all riled up. I just thought this was an issue of importance to the community. Maybe the bottom line is let your conscience be your guide, look at a given situation and judge for yourself if an innocent party is being harmed. Maybe to be balanced people have to set aside a rigid, legalistic, officious and overweening attitudes and make choices based on what feels right. I actually believe you all are doing what you feel is right. That you would stop and consider whether a person who for example makes a prop using Poser primitives and distributes it as Freestuff will in fact "cause immediate and irreparable damage and injury" to the current owner of Poser. Maybe you are right, maybe we shouldn't leap on the band wagon of over-reaching copyright, trademark, and EULA claims as though they are some new toy with which to bludgeon artists. Food for thought.

Momodot, Marvel and DC are hardly corporations filled with good hearted folks, all angels and god like. There are many many stories out there where many folks that headed those companies had and probably still have ties with organized crime. It was and might still be a place that I would not want to become too enmeshed in. You are placing both of these companies on pedestals for the sake of some churchy belief that they are in the right here. I don't agree with this spreading fear like that in a completely different field such as 3D. I have been an AVID comic book collector since I was 11 years old, I'm 45 now and have to say that this has got the be the silliest thread going right now. According to the NPR segment I just heard the copyright was created in the 60's but this is the first I have heard about it so it's not like they are going around sue happy or anything. I totally agree with many others views that if Marvel or DC Comics even tried to pull that on someone that wishes to say "I've created my own Superhero comic book" and sue that person because they have that term copyrighted they would be laughed out of the courts. If not laughed out then certainly they would be frowned upon by their peers for picking on the little guy!! I personally am not going to worry about!! I simply don't agree how you are so insistent about how we aught to know in our hearts we are in the wrong and those "law abiding" citizens are in the right. Yea, right, law abiding! Sure.... what ever! More like full of crap and of themselves. Must be lonely at the top when you have to impose your power over common words in the English language that just happen to be put together to form a term that is used the world over! :roll eyes and leaves the room: Richard :-|

Message edited on: 03/27/2006 21:33

---Wolff On The Prowl---

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Just to add: Merriam-Webster's Unabridged Dictionary: Main Entry:superhero Pronunciation:+ Function:noun Etymology:super- + hero : a fictional hero (as in a comic book) having extraordinary or supernatural powers; also : an exceptionally skillful or successful person* Hmmm, I don't see (tm) DC Comics/Marvel anywhere in that definition. Maybe they should sue...

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Heh!

---Wolff On The Prowl---

My Store is HERE

My Freebies are HERE  

I've been biting my tongue to not be a buzzkill but RAMWolff is right. Legendary comic artist Neal Adams said the same kind of thing on national radio a few weeks ago.

Message edited on: 03/27/2006 21:35

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

You guys really have me thinking... when was Thus Spake Zarathustra translated into English?

Basically, the trademark is already unenforceable. It is in such common use now that Marvel & DC do not have a leg to stand on. Provided you had the money to keep up with all their appeals - the trademark would be overturned and (possibly) the two corporations would have to pay you legal fees (there was a case recently where Mattel was forced to do this for suing someone making parodies of Barbie). Given your reasoning momodot, it is perfectly acceptable for Microsoft to trademark the term "Windows". Believe it or not - Microsoft knows the term is on very shaky ground (as the term "windows" for the GUI was coined before they made the Windows software) and always settles when the company they are suing comes close to the end of a court case (i.e. before the judge is allowed to rule the trademark invalid). Just because someone obtains a trademark does not immediately make it valid. In exactly the same way that obtaining a patent does not make it valid. It simply means that the reviewer did not do their job properly. --EK

there's a huge difference between a trademark, a copyright, a service mark, and intellectual property. Doug

I came, I rendered, I'm still broke.

I just did the search over at USPTO website, and the top entry is a Japanese registrant who has the term as part of their computer game trade mark. I think this is going to become another series of Frivolous Lawsuits merry-go-round-the-bush event. The most lucrative solution IMHO - I should invest in a law firm, LLC type. winkz

Eternal Hobbyist

 

Recently someone who had made a corridor that looked similar to a corridor in some television show was told very forcefully in the merchant's forum and in this forum that they would be in grave violation of the copyright of the show to sell or otherwise distribute the mesh and texture. I was not aware that the scenery in a television show was copyrighted in the same manner as are the images and dialog of a television. Was the issue that the corridor appeared in copyrighted images in the television broadcast and that this corridor mesh and texture could be used to create images "substantially similar" to the images in the broadcast? It was a science fiction show... do you think all the people who got on the case of the artist did so on account of the fact that since the show was not to be named in the mesh package it could not be defined as fan-art? How about in the case of the person making a vehicle prop out of Poser primitives? It was suggested that the primitives, boxes, balls, torus, cone, etc. which were only licensed for personal use by e-Frontiers might be extracted from the final prop by unscrupulous individuals... this made me very concerned since if people were to get a hold of several renders of mine that showed the same character they might be able to extract the texture of the character package I used, they might even be able to ascertain the combination and setting of morphs used to create the character. Very worrying indeed. This whole thing about original figures having to be en-coded to other figures, people not passing on Poser freebies from sites/authors who are long disappeared and which were originally distributed with no relevant re-distribution conditions and no indication of real world authorship... it all has me so confused. I thought there was a consistent standard, some common sense, as concerns the respecting of Intellectual Property rights. People suggest that a rigging similar to V3's can not be used on a figure without the consent of DAZ but then other, or maybe even the same, people suggest that we disregard a trademark simply because it might be expensive to or even arguable to enforce. This is going to really plague me, trying to figure it all out :(

oops! forgive me if somebody already posted this, but I just checked my default poser runtime, and there are 2 poses with "superhero" in the name. (libraries/pose/poser 1-4 poses/comic sets).

"Trademark" means they can sue. "Registered Trademark" means they'll win. Which is it? I strongly suspect that they couldn't register that trademark, despite their claims to it. It's been in common usage for too long. In other words "TM" does not mean they have a case, although they might. It depends on what they can prove in court. "R" means they OWN it, though.

When it comes to lawsuits, though, a company with deep pockets can bankrupt you even if you're in the right. Thomas Edison and George Eastman were prime examples of this. They'd sue anyone who did anything that slightly RESEMBLED their stuff. Didn't matter if they were in the wrong. They'd tie people up in court 'til they went broke.

I wish I could just be swift and make a modest proposal!

"Uber-Hero", "Psycho-Hero", "Scouper-Pooper Hero" Bah ! Man, this entire issue makes me mad and makes me feel like gagging. Good thing I prefer The Darkness and WitchBlade.

Message edited on: 03/27/2006 23:09

Eternal Hobbyist

 

Well, DAZ have an issue claiming copyright to joint parameters (or at the very least enforcing them), but that is a different subject and I don't want to bog this one down with the details. The thing with trademarks is that once they become "common terms" they are unenforceable. They MUST chase up infringements to their trademarks for this reason, because if they don't they lose them. The thing with the "superhero" trademark is that they cannot enforce it now - they should have back in '79. Now it is too late. My sons call the Incredibles "superheroes", they also call the ninja turtles the same thing. If Marvel/DC were to try and enforce this - they would lose, bit time. If they attack someone small enough to bankrupt - the PR fallout would bite them hard. If they attack someone large enough to defend themselves, they lose the trademark. Catch-22 --EK

Nobody here is doing this for any of these companies being talked about. I'll wait and see what they do.

Crazy greedy World today.In Germany the Telekom has a trademark on the colour magenta.What else can you trademark?Breathing ,having sex?What about the word "Darling"?Now everytime couples in love call each other "Darling" ,they have to pay.It all reminds me to the movie Total Recall where they sell air for breathing.We are not far away from it.

Attached Link: http://goodcomics.blogspot.com/2006/03/superhero-trademark-faq.html

Interesting FAQ. See Link. *Must be lonely at the top when you have to impose your power over common words in the English language* Like, oh, say, Windows? bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

What is the status of xerox? At IBM the staff was not allowed to make a xerox, only photostats. Anyway, why is it that when we talk about copyright it is assumed that we must give the broadest and most sweeping interpretation, to the point of ignoring even the possibility of Free Use provisions but with trademark it is all about whether it can be enforced? Will it be enforced? Why should I have any obligation to obey a legal principal if enforcing it on me is impractical? If you look at threads on issues such as the Eve figure you will seen people on the brink of espousing the position that Eve can't be distributes as it has DAZ-like grouping even if it does predate Vicky 1. Any number of times people have been refused props that other people had downloaded for free even though the read_me says nothing about re-distribution and the original poster of the mesh has long ago disappeared. Like I said, I wish I had it in my power to make a modest proposal. Hmmm. I just hope that people using Poser know when a modification of a figure even for their own use is permitted by the EULA and when it is not. That people realize that a figure they have purchased from DAZ can not be used in a different location from where it was first installed, say if you move to a new town or something for instance. People here are typically very vigilant, it is important though to realize the scope of restrictions and make reasoned decision on how far one should go in observing copyright and EULA restrictions as they were intended.

Well I for one have to agree with Momodot! The point is that if we are going to burn one witch at the stake on this site, we should burn ALL of the witches on this site! If one trademark, copyright, etc. is going to be enforced by the Forum powers-that-be, then they ALL should be enforced with equal fanaticism! mike

Marvel and DC: What happened to you guys? You used to be cool. About twenty years ago. Jeebus. First Dave Sim turns into a loony, now this. Sooper-Hero Mystery Men (Maybe Bob Burden will go crazy with this one?) Masked Heroes Y'can't call them "spandex" anything. That led to trouble for the publisher of "Spandex Tights".... Actually, it seems unlikely that they'll go on a total rampage against fan art. Mind you, I haven't read the articles. Isn't the comics industry still depressed? Maybe this is their plan to try to rescue their industry from the depths into which they've helped plunge it. Or something. Hmm. Thanks for the heads up.

===========================sigline======================================================

Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking.  He apologizes for this.  He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.

Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below.  His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.

Q: What products does this apply to? A: Publications, but basically comic books and magazines. Also, cardboard stand-up figures, playing cards, paper iron-on transfers, erasers, pencil sharpeners, pencils, notebooks, stamp albums, and costumes. From one of the links. Basically, if I create a pose-set for Poser, and use "Super Hero" as part of the name, according to this I'm not doing it as a publication, and well outside Marvel's and DC's "sphere of interest" so they aren't likely to try to sue me. Now, if I tried to create a comic with those poses, and tried to get it into comic stores with a title of "The Super Hero Squad" then they can stomp on me. At least, that's how I see it.

________________________________________________________________

If you're joking that's just cruel, but if you're being sarcastic, that's even worse.

Marvel and DC attempting to trademark two commonly used words is in no way similar to anything in PoserLand.

To continue to use the term "Super Hero" in an original comic strip/design/story is not hypocritical to defending copyrights. It's ridiculous.

...... Kendra

"Recently someone who had made a corridor that looked similar to a corridor in some television show was told very forcefully in the merchant's forum and in this forum that they would be in grave violation of the copyright of the show to sell or otherwise distribute the mesh and texture."

Maybe so, but they can't be in any trouble simply using the word "corridor." Does DAZ have a lock on the name Vicky? I can nail two pieces of wood together and call it "Vicky" and sell it. Just as it should be.

Message edited on: 03/28/2006 00:45

So now superheroes are only Marvel & DC ??? Poor Mighty Mouse :( Poor Atom Ant :( Poor Hong Kong Phooey :( ... etc ... :P

CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"

I was just thinking - surely there must appear in hundreds of thousands of texts within published novels, journal articles, and newspaper reports around the world, that use the term "super hero", not to mention film and animated movie scripts (non-Hollywood, non-USA), song lyrics, advertising slogans both spoken and printed, etc etc. If I had to establish the claim that the trade mark is defensible in the first place, hoo-boy !! Big job, baby !

Eternal Hobbyist

 

Momodot, I think if you look at the people who are criticising the trademark issue are also those that criticise the overbearinig assumptions of those that think they can "copyright" things such as grouping (which would NEVER hold up in court) and joint parameters (which have no artistic expression component, and would be clasified as fair use under the computer compatibility exceptions in any case). I have never beleived (and never stated) that one should respect frivilous claims be they claims in copyright, trademark, or patents. In the same way I do not believe joint parameter "copyrights" would never stand up in court (and have legal advice to support it), I do not believe Marvel/DC could ever make this stand up either. The issue in question is whether you can afford the court case, not whether it is right or wrong. --EK

Moe's plan for a jihad against infidel trademark infringers suffered a slight setback eariler today.

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

Am I the only one who smells a rat here? Momodot is having you on, folks. Swiftly, no, and yes, TSZ was translated long before Superman hit the rags, witness Shaw's use of the term in a title. It would an interesting investigation to see how Germany Aryanism tickled the comic artist's fancy, by the way. OF course, Neitzsche failed to register his coined word (Uebermensch), so he's, if I may say without treading on trademark, "Shit out of luck." Personally, I hope any corporation that expects to be treated like a person gets VD. Remember VD? Something nasty like clap, with yellow gunk in their corporate underwear. Or maybe pox, complete with rotting corporate noses and eventual dementia. The IP laws don't protect individuals, they "protect" corporations after they have ripped the individuals off. Swift was paid 50 pounds for Gulliver's Travels. The marketers made all the profits. I want to trademark "Fuck 'em." I respect the IP of creative people trying to make a living. Corporations are just the predators we try to avoid while we eat their eggs and excreta. M

I can't see it taking. Anyone remember Lucasfilm's attempt to copyright the word "hyperspace"?

The only leverage Marvel and DC have on this is that they did (as I understand it) actually invent the phrase.

I can nail two pieces of wood together and call it "Vicky" and sell it. But would it look as attractive naked in a temple with a sword? bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

Does anyone smell "locked thread"? I have a feeling it's coming soon... David

Attached Link: LA Times editorial

**`mickma wrote`** - ***Am I the only one who smells a rat here? Momodot is having you on, folks.***

Nope, it's for real.

"Marvel is claiming exclusive rights to use the term "super hero" as a marketing term for, well, superheroes. The company and its largest competitor, DC Comics, jointly obtained the trademark from the federal Patent and Trademark Office in 1981."

Now that I think of it in The Incredibles Movie, Syndrome referred to the Incredibles as Supers and not Super Heros..Hmmm

I hear the key in the door..... |8^P Marque

As long as people keep it civil and don't start fighting or attacking each other (which hasn't happened yet), the thread won't be locked.

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

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Nope, it's for real. I wasn't referring to the story; I was referring to his attitude. Anybody figured out what the obj file is yet? M

Yes we're being civil, but I've read things in this thread that I haven't seen done here before (namely profanity and some image gestures). I was just surprised that we are getting by with it. And then the posting of the partial lines from some OBJ file. Just seemed like this thread was begging to be locked. LOL David

I think everyone is getting too carried away with copyrights, etc. Like many of you have said, whats next copy righting of common words? Trademarking of smells? We live in a pretty depraved society when the most important thing a major corporation has to do is make sure people don't use the term Super Hero. Next thing you know, the government will pass a law that requires computer manufacturers to put spying devices inside their products.

Just enjoying the Vue. :0)

Attached Link: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/000915.html

You can't copyright a word or a title (that's not what copyright is for). Technically, you shouldn't be able to trademark a common word, but Microsoft managed to do it, and so have a few others. The thing with tradmarks is that they're very limited in scope. It only applies when the word/phrase/name/logo is used by a competitor or in some way that might confuse the public or dilute the value of the trademark for the lawful trademark holder. In other words, I can open the Windows Cafe or the Super Hero Laundromat, and there's nothing Microsoft or Marvel/DC Comics can do about it because it's nothing to do with their business. They also can't stop me from saying "super hero" or "superhero" as much as I damn well please. A trademark is to protect a MARK that it used in TRADE, and NOTHING ELSE. And as a matter of fact Harley-Davidson tried to trademark the sound of their motorcycles engine (see link). bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

It's not the engine that makes the sound, it's the pipes. When I first heard my softail I was surprised at the lack of a roar, when I picked up my bike a few days later with different pipes on it the sound I had expected was there. Not as loud as some I've heard but definatly a roar. lol Marque

Heh, since none of us would even be here without it -- clones excepted -- I hereby declare myself the sole trademark/copyright/etcetra/ owner of "sex". ;-)

Attached Link: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/000915.html

I'm gonna keep editing this thing until I get it right!!! ... Guess I'm just some kind of dope ... *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING *** You have just used a Registered trademark in violation of The World Code Section 4,384, Subsection 485c.7.IV, Paragraph 273.23.567.a.5, Sentence 42a, word 17, letter 5 1/2. Don't do it again or your HDD will be savagely ripped from your PC never to be returned (until it has been completly reformatted with only PC type stuff for your PC. *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING ***

Message edited on: 01/13/1893 12:34

Message edited on: 02/21/1975 11:15

Message edited on: 02/20/1996 10:32

Message edited on: 03/28/2006 10:37

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

And who wants to ear nonsenses about a bunch of crazy people flying and jumping in pajamas or with their underware out of the clothes??? XD

CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"

I do damnit!! LOL

---Wolff On The Prowl---

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Geep, it's for the phrase. Artistic license was used for placement of the mark. Necessary evil to have it, not always easy to find a suitable place for it. David

LOL, Dave and Geep !

Eternal Hobbyist

 

" You guys really have me thinking... when was Thus Spake Zarathustra translated into English?"

Just after it stopped being "Also sprach Zarathustra. Ein Buch f Alle und Keinen." maybe? ;)

I think the translation was first published in the 1900's, but I'm not 100% certain.

As far as I can determine the etymology of the word superhero traces back to Superman (the comic book hero) and first came into use around 1938, so it was based on the name of a character stolen from a concept (ermensch) first published in Germany by Hermann Rab (1527), and also used by Herder and Goethe even before Nietzsche supposedly coined it in 1885. It was translated as overman (1895) and beyond-man (1896) before George Bernard Shaw got it right in his play title "Man and Superman" (1903).

The liver is evil - It must be punished.

Thanks David.

My whole day would have been totally ruined if I didn't have the answer to that.

;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

@ Dave

P.S. I like to suggest a "suitable place for it" but I don't think the TOS would allow me to tell 'em WHERE to put it !

;=] Edited just for the heck of it. ;=]

Message edited on: 03/28/2006 12:16

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

How do the people at Image Comics and Dark Horse Comics feel about this? Are they going to stop using the words "super-hero" just because the "big guys" are claiming they own that word? And let's see DC or Marvel sue a fan website over the use of the word "super-hero". They'll kill their fan base faster than a speeding bullet. Who's going to buy comics from a company that sues their own fans? Suing over an authorized use of Superman or Batman or the X-Men is one thing, but suing over the word "super-hero" is another. I think we're all being hosed. This just sounds like a massive April Fools Day prank. --John

VanishingPoint... Advanced 3D Modeling Solutions

LOL! Don't think there's any TOS about saying "where the sun don't shine", Doc. ::runs off to copyright/patent/trademark that phrase::

Can I just say ... "Stick it!" ... with some of Doc's "glue." ;=?

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

No problem for me with this tracemark stuff, my forte is 'Bare Breasted Babes Bathing in the Buff!' Heh, that rhymes, maybe I should copywrite it! David P. hoadley

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

Quotes Geep: Can I just say ... "Stick it!" ... with some of Doc's "glue." ;=? *** Fine by me. Might be not so fine with whomever owns that phrase. Maybe you'd better check?

"How do the people at Image Comics and Dark Horse Comics feel about this? Are they going to stop using the words "super-hero" just because the "big guys" are claiming they own that word?" Image is owned by DC, which is itself a subsidiary of Warners. Not sure about Dark Horse but they have tied in with DC in the past.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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I don't think it's a prank. I actually believe Marvel and DC are playing this game.

I believe Marvel purchased DC a couple of years ago, but I don't recall the whole story right now. This gives the newer entity full power over the trademark, whereas two companies needed to share the term previously.

So why now, all of a sudden?

Here is an answer to chew on a bit...

I was at the NY Comic Con back in February of this year. It was absolutely huge. It was held at the Jacob Javits Convention Center, where they also hold the NY Auto Show every year. The place was packed, so much so that tickets were actually selling out. We are talking tens of thousands of people here. Imagine a football game crowd all looking at comics.

So, what does this have to do with the topic right? Well, Marvel had a setup at the show. It was about the same size as most other companies' setups, roughly 15x20 feet, in my guesstimation. Okay, so the biggest fish is held in the same size net? Hmmm. Okay, well their station must have been packed, with a constant trailer for X-Men 3 playing, or their artists signing autographs, right? Well...not exactly. The most people I saw there at any point was around 25, maybe 30 people. In contrast, the famous McFarlane was signing autographs, in the basement, and the line was over 2 HOURS long. Hmmm...

Let me tell you, I was a big comic fan as a kid. I loved Captain America, Batman, and Green Lantern. I would read any comic available to me though. At one point, I knew every single current Marvel Universe hero/villian. I had NO IDEA there are literally HUNDREDS of comic companies in business today! The comic con definitely opened my eyes.

I knew there was competition. I was a huge Spawn fan when Image was fledgling. (Speaking of which, when considering the "caring corporations" that are the Marvel properties, let's remember why Image was started. Marvel ripped off it's own artists, such as McFarlane, whom some consider the best artist to ever draw a certain web-slinger. Original ideas became property of Marvel, and were outright taken from artists. With the lack of creative freedom they were willing to use, for fear of losing their IP, they jumped ship, and started a new company, based on the ideals of free thought, and personal ownership. So please don't give me this stuff about "responsible" or "caring" or even ethical company stuff. Marvel has no sense of corporate responsibility, and never has, it's has always been about profit.)

So given that there is so much competition, should Marvel be worried? I mean, household names such as X-Men, or Spider-Man, or The Avengers should be easily more attractive to the consumer than other products, right? I don't think so. Given the attention I saw at the Con for all of the other publishers, and the lack thereof for Marvel, I would say the playing field has been levelled quite significantly.

Marvel is hoping to cut some of the competition out. That can be the only reason they want to play their TM card now. I doubt it will work. Do you blow your nose with Kleenex? Do you have a coke when you are thirsty? Companies have spent billions in selling their trademarks to the public, then when it backfires, and supports the competition, they immediately want to cash in and break the competition. Let Marvel try their hand in court. Yes, they may beat a small publishing house or two. But eventually, those other publishers will start getting together a group and hiring lawyers to defend the group. Don't be surprised if a birdie named McFarlane has a hand in that. Then, Marvel has bad PR, and still nothing to show for it.

OOOOooooo ...... OOOOOoooo... I got the coveted #100 slot. YAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

... except that someone beat me 2 it. ;=[ Oh well, I got the uncoveted #101 slot. ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

If you think about it, someone, or at least some abstract entity, has been being condemned in each of these posts in some way. Therefore you got the coveted "101 Damnations" spot. Obviously not trademarked/copyrighted but Disney.

Before they made me they broke the mold!
http://home.roadrunner.com/~kflach/

Hey Destro75, that was a hell of a report. Thanks. Yup, Image Comics were the "bad boys" the "Brat Pack" of the comics industry. All nay sayer's said they wouldn't last a year. They are still around over 10 years later and still with good practices but alas so many of the founders have sold out or formed their own companies or have gone over to DC like Jim Lee and other late comers like Michael Turner so there you go. Money VS Ethics. Money still wins I guess. Not in my book but it WOULD be nice to have some more of that to compliment my ethics!! Richard ;-)~

---Wolff On The Prowl---

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If this is a legit complaint and not a gag, I really think they will be laughed out of court! How can you copyright a public-domain expression, for any reason? I think there have been similar lawsuits that got tossed, tho specifics escaspe me at the moment. I guess I'll go Googling to research a bit.

If I remember correctly when the character "Shazam!" first came out DC took the company that distribute that chatacter to court to have them stop making that comic because it was simular to Superman and later DC brought all rights to Shazam...So I guess battles over TM and Comic copy cats have been going on a long time.

I seem to recall in the late 80's, TSR (the makers of Dungeons & Dragons) were selling their Indiana Jones role playing game. In the back of one of the books, they claimed the word "Nazi" was copyright TSR... Steve

Well, not very important. Marvel and DC have superheroes. We could draw... ...SUPERCALIFRAGILISTIC-EXPIALIDOCIUS-HEROES !!! ... or SUP-EX-HEROES Casette running to register the trademark

CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"

Sorry about that my good doctor. Hey, at least it was a huge post! ;-)

RamWolff, yes, that was the Image way. So many people doubted they could hold water with the big boys firmly in command of the market. What Marvel/DC/naysayers failed to realize is that comic fans are fans of the artwork. It isn't even so much about the storyline. If someone wants an A+ story, they'll read a book. The artists are the attraction. McFarlane's Spawn was one of the best drawn comics EVER. (It didn't hurt that his Spidey fans flocked to Spawn simply because it was "McFarlane" either.)

And yes, alas, in the end, even Image succumbed to profit taking. But that is business, you don't run a company just out of the goodness of your heart. But they still do some good business. I remember when McFarlane hung up his Spawn pen. He took the time to introduce his replacement (Angel something-or-other IIRC.) I thought that was a nice touch, smoothing the fans into the transition.

Artistheat, yeah, I think I remember reading a story about that once. (DC had a good point though, Shazaam was clear knock-off of Superman. Hell, they even had the same hair!)

Gryshnak, that sounds vaguely familiar, but I don't remember any specifics of it. TSR was a great company when it was alive and well, but toward the mid-late 80's, when profits started falling due to mismanagement, the company took a real nosedive on their policies. I know I have read numerous stories of attempted lawsuits, and corporate in-fighting going on pre-Wizard's takeover.

"Am I the only one who smells a rat here? Momodot is having you on, folks."

You're not the only one. My first impression was that it was being used as an attempt to "prove" something. (certain wording indicated it but it was never made clear)

...... Kendra

I'll give ya'll a hint... "momo" is the Japanese word for "peach." I"m sure you can figure out the rest.

Before they made me they broke the mold!
http://home.roadrunner.com/~kflach/

Eric Larson trademarked "Hiter" and "Jesus" in the same comicbook. (Savage Dragon) Marvel Comics does NOT own DC Comics. Warner Bros owns DC. Doug

I came, I rendered, I'm still broke.

::gawks:: He did? Quick, somebody warn all the Christians! Better warn the nazis too -- wait! what am I saying?! Seriously, the law's not just an ass at times, it's ...hoo boy, gonna get TOSed if I finish that one. ;-)

"I recommend you do a thorough search of your storage media to delete any offending material but you should make sure to dump the search term from your file management software as soon as your done. I know that using the term in a search is a grey area here but probably the lesser evil is excusable in attempting to rectify the greater evil. Do not forget to look for any "hidden" offences such as morph targets and textures that use or contain the protected phrase "Super Hero"(tm). Since "deleting" or "emptying" from the Recycle Bin(tm) doesn't actually destroy data it might be advised to use a "shredder" application or to apply 32-bit encryption prior to deleting offending material." "I just hope that people using Poser know when a modification of a figure even for their own use is permitted by the EULA and when it is not. That people realize that a figure they have purchased from DAZ can not be used in a different location from where it was first installed, say if you move to a new town or something for instance." These statements alone should tell you that this continuing silliness is here just to bait people. Who in their right mind would do, or adhere to, any of the above? What fun.

Attached Link: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000085&sid=aj2AwZBnRA28&refer=europe

Apple Computer and Apple Corps (The music business for the Beatles) are fighting it out over the word "Apple"

It's happening everywhere. Be afraid, be very afraid. Flaunt your paranoia, they're lurking everywhere and out to get you when you least expect it, "like a theif in the night". Hah ha ! Bet that phrase is covered too !

Message edited on: 03/28/2006 18:48

Eternal Hobbyist

 

"Marvel Comics does NOT own DC Comics. Warner Bros owns DC." Ahh, gotcha. I had a feeling I misunderstood that one. Thanks for clearing that up Doug!

According to the FAQ linked above, this only applies to the use of the word "superhero" as the name of a product. Thus you can publish a comic in which a character describes themself, e.g. in dialog, as a superhero, without infringing the TM. The one thing you can't do is entitle the comic "Fred the Superhero" and trade on that phrase as a brand. So all this talk about renaming morphs is ridiculous. Honestly, have we become so craven that we want to surrender our freedoms before we are even asked?

This whole thread is just plain ridiculous. USPTO searches reveal that "Super Hero" or "Superhero" is part of 29 live trademarks. So what? DC owns the trademark to use the phrase "Super Hero" on masquerade costumes and whatnots and Marvel has registered "Super Hero" as well applying to different products. There are also Superhero baseball caps and Superhero sun lotion. So what? It has no bearing on Poser products anywhere. There is no reason why I couldn't create a "Superhero Pose Pack" and market it in the States since it does not fall into any specified area that actually IS trademarked. The talk here is centered around United States anyway. Superhero isn't trademarked in Europe and I strongly believe without checking that it isn't registered anywhere else either barring US. About EULAS: I don't know what kind of case laws you have in States about EULAs, but I can tell you that where I live, if I buy a Daz product, I do not have to abide by the "rules" dictated by the EULA - the only laws I need to follow are those set by my country. It's already tried in the Supreme Court here and they simply don't hold water as any one-sided contract that tries to supercede the laws of the land are not worth the bytes they occupy.

DC Comics is owned by Warner Bros aka Time Warner aka AOL/ Time Warner Communications. This is why it's such a big deal for Warner Bros to get a superhero (tm)(r)(c) movie franchise off the ground. Marvel Comics is its own entity has ties with 20th Century Fox for movies (X-Men) and Universal Studios (Marvel SuperHero Island at Unversal's Islands of Adventure theme park). And it's interesting to note that neither the DC Comics site nor the Marvel Comics site mentions this "new" copyright claim. Both sites mention the latest comics and movie projects, but neither of them talk about how fans can't use the word "super-hero". Marvel Comics talks about the X3 and Wolverine movie. DC Comics talks about yet another "universe changing" comic series that seems to occur every ten years. --John

VanishingPoint... Advanced 3D Modeling Solutions

On the matter of who owns what: You will be happy to hear that agribusiness is in the process of "patenting" genomes of various vegetables, such as "corn." What does that mean? That it will be illegal to grow "corn" unless you have Ralston-Purina's permission. Cool, huh? Talk about good ole American business savvy. In teh early days of corporate plunder, it was determined that although you owned your back pasture, you did not own the ore under your back pasture, and if some enterprising corporation wanted to mine it, then you were destined to live on a swiss cheese. Towns collapsed, but the plutopigs who owned the mines didn't live there, so who cares? Corporations have already figured out that if you own the water, you can do what you please with it. Like bottle it and sell it to the East Indians who work in the plant and, coincidentally, now have dry wells. Cooler! If only some budding Ken Lay could figure out how to own air. Own air! Talk coolest!!!! PS: Regarding "shazam": As a former Captain Marvel/Billy Batson fan, I have to point out that Shazam was the magic word that made the latter into the former, not the name of the super... er. And the idea that Captain Marvel was a rip-off of Superman is about as ludicrous as the idea that Angelwhosit Jolie is a lip-off of Kim Bassinger. M

"momo" is the Japanese word for "peach." In Israel, 'Momo" is a nickname for Sholomo (Salomon), the wise King who saw all things hidden. But on a serious note, either a thing is public domain, or it's not; Or either a thing is copywrited and/or tredsmarked, or it's not; but it can't be both at the same time! Food for thought while you're all biting your nails and wondering, "What if..." David P. Hoadley

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

"...is about as ludicrous as the idea that Angelwhosit Jolie is a lip-off of Kim Bassinger." You mean they've been cloning people even BEFORE poser... May G-d Forbid! DPH

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

Image or Dark Horse should try to trademark the word "Comic Book", then call DC and Marvel and offer to negotiate...

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

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"I wish I could just be swift and make a modest proposal!" "Neither wink at the blind nor whisper to the deaf." - old Slavic proverb. I got dibs on NITWAS

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