What does ! in front of a pose file mean?

That is how insecure merchants try to keep there products at the top of your runtime. I think it was Daz that started it. Now you get !!!!!! a lot.

It will not stop until the store tells the merchants that it will not be put up for sale until the ! and other forms do do that, are not included. Like that's going to happen.

It means that the creator of this pose wants to see his product as the first in the list. Because it is surely the most important file in the world!

:)

The reasons I never do this are because I don't want to annoy my customers and I credit them with enough sense to read the Readme or examine the zip file to see what goes where.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

Well, thanks! (sorry). The answer is a true surprise.

Quote - I think it was Daz that started it. Now you get !!!!!! a lot.

Actually, Daz named their morph folder (the folder that contains the morphs the INJ & REM's point to) with exclamation marks in front of it, not the pose folder. In Poser itself you don't see the morph folder.

I use exclamation marks 'inside' my folders if I feel something should be seen first 'inside' that folder. For example, if a morph needs to be loaded before a texture, etc.

Quote - That is how insecure merchants try to keep there products at the top of your runtime. I think it was Daz that started it. Now you get !!!!!! a lot.

It will not stop until the store tells the merchants that it will not be put up for sale until the ! and other forms do do that, are not included. Like that's going to happen.

Why? The stores have all sorts of strictures, some a little arbitrary... why not this do you think?

I also think the product names should include the figure they are for and that the product names should be indentical in the the Geometry folder, Textures folder and Library folders.

That's just me :)

I have used this technique to my advantage to sort my Runtime Folders. I like my Figures at the Top so they all get 3 (!!!), I like by Figure MATs to be at the top so the Folder I placed them in gets named !!! Figure MATs or !!! Figure MAT/MOR .

This all requires extreme customization of your Runtimes, but I find the effort worth the results.

I will add that I tend to strip off all other uses of ! in products, because I am looking for a name, not a ! .

ratscloset
aka John

Quote - That is how insecure merchants try to keep there products at the top of your runtime. I think it was Daz that started it. Now you get !!!!!! a lot.

It will not stop until the store tells the merchants that it will not be put up for sale until the ! and other forms do do that, are not included. Like that's going to happen.

A merchant started this craze here at Rendo years ago to get her folder listed above/in front of my "Anton" folders. It caught on.

I don't like it either:) hehe So is it my fault? lol

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

i take great pleasure in renaming any and all such idiocies, and i remember the merchants, and not in a good way. one of these days i'm gonna fire off a complaint letter to all of them with a lot of shakespearean swear words (with the exception of people like xena, who actually make use of sort order for useful reasons).

You can also use % & + - . to make the file name earlier in the list, they are just the characters in the ascii order.

I havent tried it but if you put a space at the start of the name it should appear in the list before the !

Thanks xantor for giving these merchants more ammo.

> Quote - > Quote - I think it was Daz that started it. Now you get !!!!!! a lot. > > > > Actually, Daz named their morph folder (the folder that contains the morphs the INJ & REM's point to) with exclamation marks in front of it, not the pose folder. In Poser itself you don't see the morph folder. > > > I use exclamation marks 'inside' my folders if I feel something should be seen first 'inside' that folder. For example, if a morph needs to be loaded before a texture, etc.

DAZ may not have started it, but they certainly took it to extremes... This is the top of my Pose library. :cursing: It's a good job I never use my library palette, isn't it? :biggrin: xantor: you're right in saying that space comes before anything else in the printable ASCII character set, but fortunately for us, you can't start a file name with a space (in Windows, at least). The exclamation mark is the first character that can be used to start a file name, so it has the most get-me-to-the-top power.

Uhm.. you CAN start a filename with a Space. I use it to sort my own stuff (also commercial, but not on a folder level though. I just like to have the main thing on top - say a MOR pose, and then the MAT poses below that)

Just name the thing in Poser starting with a space. Or use something like Windows Commander (Now called Total Commander) - that accepts filenames starting with a blank as well

Now you've done it, TG. I hope no unscrupulous merchants are reading this. :tongue2:

personally I use zzz for the prefix of my private folders. The end is just as convenient as the begining.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

EnglishBob sez quote: It's a good job I never use my library palette, isn't it?

How is that?

In brief: PRPC in conjunction with P3dO - Advanced Library for Poser is a similar utility. Both require a Python-enabled version of Poser, i.e. Pro Pack onwards.

Despite plentiful kind help of the authors I could not get those two to work on my system well. Lately I read a suggestion that it might be a peculiarity of my firewall. I have been using Ockham's FreeLoader.py and he is working on the loading from icon... right now it loads from file name and it loads REALLY fast!

:biggrin:

Quote - personally I use zzz for the prefix of my private folders. The end is just as convenient as the begining.

UNLESS you're still on Poser 4 / Pro Pack, and has a folder that is so large that anything after G is.. just gone.

Been there, done that.

Then I got PBooost and never looked back LOL!

In printing, the "!" character is also known as a "screamer" (among other more offensive terms).

When little kiddies are balancing themselves atop a thick wall or jumping on and off a 6-inch step, you will often hear them screaming "MUMMY!!!! MUMMY!!!! LOOK AT ME!!!!". (or words to that effect). The mother's response (after the 1st couple of times) tends to be "Yes Jimmy" (and later no response at all, except for perhaps "GET DOWN FROM THERE!")

PR guys and some merchants have got (just a little) past the "little kiddie" stage. So their attention-grabbing technique is to scream 1st, then say "Look at me". OK, they got slightly computer-literate, but they're still jumping up and down 6-inch steps.

:biggrin:

Cheers,
Diolma

Oh and PBooost II can do that "load from library" as well. And it works like a dream. I still use my usual palettes for the main stuff but everything else is loaded via PBooost

Quote - PR guys and some merchants have got (just a little) past the "little kiddie" stage. So their attention-grabbing technique is to scream 1st, then say "Look at me". OK, they got slightly computer-literate, but they're still jumping up and down 6-inch steps.

:biggrin:

Cheers,
Diolma

I can understand the reasoning behind the "plings" in library folders, even if they are irritating and counter-productive. But putting them in your geometry and texture folders? What possible purpose could that serve, except to say "Hey, I'm stupid, don't buy any more of my stuff!!!" I have six plinged sub-folders in my texture folder, and one in my geometries. What the?

Another fun thing when organising your runtimes is when you buy an item called, say, MartianQueen, and then the folders are named "Exana" or something like that. NO more reference to MartianQueen anywhere.

"I can understand the reasoning behind the "plings" in library folders, even if they are irritating and counter-productive. But putting them in your geometry and texture folders? What possible purpose could that serve, except to say "Hey, I'm stupid, don't buy any more of my stuff!!!" I have six plinged sub-folders in my texture folder, and one in my geometries"

I did say "slightly computer literate" :-))

Cheers,
Diolma

Whlie we're on the topic (or kinda). Can I reorganise my library palettes (characters, props & pose) just by dumping the sub-folders into a folder of my choise, eg. can I put all my Hair Mat folders into a master folder called Hair Mats. Likewise, can I put all my Clothing Characters for Mike into a folder called Mike's clothes. My palettes are getting very long and untidy and I'd like to tidy them up.

Quote - Whlie we're on the topic (or kinda). Can I reorganise my library palettes (characters, props & pose) just by dumping the sub-folders into a folder of my choise, eg. can I put all my Hair Mat folders into a master folder called Hair Mats. Likewise, can I put all my Clothing Characters for Mike into a folder called Mike's clothes. My palettes are getting very long and untidy and I'd like to tidy them up.

Yes, if you have Poser 5 or Poser 6. No, if you have an earlier version. You can, however, buy PBooost (note the 3 'o's in the name), which will allow you to do more or less the same thing. I used PBooost for quite a while before I bought Poser 5.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

Thanks SamTherapy. Love your avatar. Mine will grow older as I learn more. At the moment I'm a very immature Poser user.

Quote - Thanks SamTherapy. Love your avatar. Mine will grow older as I learn more. At the moment I'm a very immature Poser user.

You're welcome. Thanks for the compliment, too. The avatar is a cut from a pic in my gallery:

http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=503625&Start=109&Artist=SamTherapy&ByArtist=Yes

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

well I do try to match my texture names to the clothing item name ... but sometimes I ahve to truncate things. However I'm careful to avoid "black.jpg" and suchlike because poser can be uber stupid and will latch onto just the wrong file ....

as far as !!!! they can !!!! shove it .... I find them annoying to no bloody end. I just prefix with my initials if at all. PW stuff just gets PW folder prefix .

sometimes Brokerages (ppros, DAZ etc) change product names at the last minute. Or the artist builds it as say "interior number 3" and it isnt named properly til late in the game. it can be difficult if not impossible to rename things once built .. so I tend to cut some slack for that sort of thing.

Heck ..as far as my texture expansions go I finally gave up names for them and just call them "texture expansion for whatever" after 20 or so you run out of names.

so Anton its all YOUR fault poke poke you !!!! heh

I use an _ to bump up my working folders to the top of the mess

:)

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Could it not be Marketplace policy not to allow products with !!names?

Actually as a new merchant I use the ! in front of my products runtime folders so they "float" to the top of the folder structure, making them easier to find and work with.
I dont always remove them because it can become a pain at the end of the packaging process.

As mentioned above I apply all sorts of markers to my runtime structure to again float favourite folders to the top of the file sturcture.
I would imagine most competent users would do this?...

I thought one of the cooler features of poser was the ability to rname and remake folder structures to assist in navigating through the mind numbing array of folders...

Most competent users don`t have to do that.

Quote - Actually as a new merchant I use the ! in front of my products runtime folders so they "float" to the top of the folder structure, making them easier to find and work with.

Why should I want to find YOUR products any easier than some other merchant's products?
When all merchants adopt this policy, it becomes inflationary. Using one ! is no longer enough to float to the top. !! won't be sure of getting you there any more. Now we see !!! and !!!! as merchants crazily try to beat each other to the top.

It's a total nonsense, and it will only be stopped when the RMP bans products that perpetuate this abuse.

" making them easier to find and work with."

I'm no content provider so pardon me if this is wrong,but wouldn't Posers' ability to have multiple runtimes solve this?

I mean...why not create a runtime for each working project? It seems to me that it would be a simple way of keeping the current working project separate from everything else and make it easier to package as well.

Tom

“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”

"I'm no content provider so pardon me if this is wrong,but wouldn't Posers' ability to have multiple runtimes solve this?"

That would be to easy and make to much sence. We all know that !!!! is the better way to go. Though the merchant might still be stuck in P4 and not able to do the runtime thingy.

I would suggest to quit buying products from merchants that do that. Unfortunately some of the top merchant find the need to do this. The buying wont stop and the RMP won't make them stop using the cheep practice.

You can check if a merchant does this by cheking out the readme file on the product page.

"Few are agreeable in conversation, because each thinks more of what he intends to say than that of what others are saying, and listens no more when he himself has a chance to speak." - Francois de la Rochefoucauld

Intel Core i7 920, 24GB RAM, GeForce GTX 1050 4GB video, 6TB HDD space
Poser 12: Inches (Poser(PC) user since 1 and the floppies/manual to prove it!)

To be honest, I'd rather the merchants folders either be all at the top or all at the bottom (would perfer if they were all at the bottom), instead of mixed up with my poser folders. Without the exclamation point their folders would be all mixed up with poser's folders, then you would have to search through more folders to find the poser folder you are looking for. I find that annoying. Guess I'm a bit on the lazy side.

They are still mixed up in a crazy way. If you wanted to find a folder relating to Anton, it would be useless to know that A is at the beginning of the alphabet. You would need to be able to remember if it was !Anton or !!Anton or !!!Anton to work out if it will be before or after !Zygote or !!Zygote.

But frankly, storing stuff in folders by merchant is a terrible way to do things. You are much better keeping all V3 dresses in one folder, all M3 shoes/boots in another, and so on. It's more work at first, but saves time in the long run.

Quote - Uhm.. you CAN start a filename with a Space. I use it to sort my own stuff (also commercial, but not on a folder level though. I just like to have the main thing on top - say a MOR pose, and then the MAT poses below that)

Just name the thing in Poser starting with a space. Or use something like Windows Commander (Now called Total Commander) - that accepts filenames starting with a blank as well

At least the space isn't as annoying to look at.
And yes, we have a few things that start with a space. Not because of self-importance, but because it's really annoying to have to scroll past three feet of DAZ stuff in the Poses folder to get to our stuff.

I'm the asshole. You wanna be a shit? You gotta go through ME.

Quote - But frankly, storing stuff in folders by merchant is a terrible way to do things. You are much better keeping all V3 dresses in one folder, all M3 shoes/boots in another, and so on. It's more work at first, but saves time in the long run.

XFX Stuff is generally done by product name, and we figure you can rename and move things as you see fit. We do.

Dodger himself specifically moves his clothing into Prop library folders by figure and renames all the CR2s to PP2s because, well, clothing just makes sense as a prop to him, not as a figure. A posable prop maybe, but still a prop.

However, things are not distributed this way because we'd be fielding no end of support messages asking where things are, no matter how clearly we express it in the READMEs. So we just go with the normal flow of things.

Everyone has their own sorting style, so we figure just let 'em use it. If you want to rename all of our Poses to be .cm2 files and stick 'em in cameras, more power to you!

As for the private folders, we go with !XFX. Again the 'at the top' thing (and it's not because !XFX comes after !DAZ at least) is not the issue, just the seperating it out to avoid clutter in the 'real' folders. Why the top rather than the bottom? Well, because it's usually the top, so those private libraries can all be in the same place, together. Further, the '!' in this case serves to point out that it's not a 'normal' folder to some extent. And honestly, unless you're a power user, you never look in the 'hidden' libraries anyway.

I'm the asshole. You wanna be a shit? You gotta go through ME.

..and the naming conventions are why I don't credit more folks with their hard work..:| Everyone I can remember gets a plug, but the names help a bit..;) Some folders can be renamed in Poser 4, some can't. I'll have to figure out which one day..;)

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

The "Vanity Folder" thing is a tricky one. On one hand it's much easier to credit a merchant/freestuff provider if you know you picked the prop (or whatever) in the TrekkieGrrrl folder. On the other hand, that folder may be enourmous and there IS a good deal of sense in dividing stuff after what it is rather who made it.

Personally, I do both. My PBooost has divided my Runtime in folders according to content (V3 clothes, David Clothes, Scenery stuff and so on) and in THOSE runtimes/folders thigs are sorted like the original zips were doing it. So ion some folders there ARE a lot of ! and !!!! stuff. And yes, it's a PITA. But I've used the space thing myself, not on folder level but inside the folders, to keep things together. For instance the major texture for a character should come before eye colours or nailpolish, at least in my opinion, so that would typically be prefaced with a space.

Quote -
As for the private folders, we go with !XFX. Again the 'at the top' thing (and it's not because !XFX comes after !DAZ at least) is not the issue, just the seperating it out to avoid clutter in the 'real' folders. Why the top rather than the bottom? Well, because it's usually the top, so those private libraries can all be in the same place, together. Further, the '!' in this case serves to point out that it's not a 'normal' folder to some extent.

You're kidding no-one. What "real" folders? All folders are real. And if the default folders were somehow more important and needed to be kept together, all the more reason to have them at the top.

I think XFX3D are talking about folders like the !DAZ folder that resides OUTSIDE the ones visible from inside Poser. Folders that people are NOT supposed to move or rename if they want their injection morphs to work.

That has nothing to do with kidding anyone...

I mean, I don't believe the reasons they give. There is no good reason to want to move these folders to the top of the list. It's vanity.

Quote - I mean, I don't believe the reasons they give. There is no good reason to want to move these folders to the top of the list. It's vanity.

There used to be a valid reason with P4 and ProPack due to the limit on folders.
For anyone with even a moderate collection of stuff, ending up with more than 250+ folders was very easy.
Once the limit was exceeded, some folders just wouldn't show up (those that would be at the end of list).
Adding a pling or equivalent to bring freshly installed stuff to the top of the list meant that it would at least show up.

well. on the subject of "real" folders- i'm thinking of it like this : right now i have a pose folder filled with folders of morphs, materials and then "real" pose files. it's very annoying. it would be better to have the injection/utility poses grouped together. right now, it's true, this is my ! section.

that said, i'd much prefer MOR Figure Name, MAT FigureName, Figure Name. my absolute dream would be MOR Figure Name, sub-folders for groupings like head, chest, etc, Figure Name, and have materials go in the (you guessed it) materials folder. properly organized and subfoldered. so Arien's MFD textures, for example, could go in Morphing Fantasy Dress > Femme Fatale or even Morphing Fantasy Dress > Arien > Femme Fatale.

Quote - I mean, I don't believe the reasons they give. There is no good reason to want to move these folders to the top of the list. It's vanity.

While we're at it, I think we should all put on some BRIGHT FLOURESCENT CLOTHES and then hang out in an UNLIT CAVE so they can be the BRIGHTEST THINGS YOU CAN'T SEE IN TOTAL DARKNESS!

I'm the asshole. You wanna be a shit? You gotta go through ME.

well in the Library folders ..sure !folders are more annoying than anything

but in Runtime folders it doesnt matter. DAZ started the INJ folders with ! and everyone has adopted that as a standard, which does make it easier to pick out what folders contain INJ delta info that shouldnt be moved

Phantast
perhaps you mistook which type of folders were being discussed? I suggest rereading, unless you really wanted to say that "marking certain folders as having INJ delta info in them" is mere vanity. Which is sure what it sounds like to me that you are saying and doesnt make much sense to me .. well unless you really dont understand Runtime structure all too well which is very common these days.

Lyrra

No, I understand perfectly.

If it is necessary to mark out some folders (in Windows, not the Poser library) as containing INJ data, then the logical way to do this it to put "INJ" in front of the folder name. Then it's clear. Then all the INJ folders will be together and clearly marked. Or is that too logical?

I can't see any good reason to keep them out of the way of other folders within Windows Explorer, and if it was necessary, then it would be better to put them at the bottom (prefaced with ZZ) to get them out of the way.

Making sure they float to the top looks to me to be motivated by vanity, and if you want to "put on some BRIGHT FLOURESCENT CLOTHES and then hang out in an UNLIT CAVE", well, that's your idea of fun, not mine.

well you'd have to ask DAZ if they were vain ... after all they started the ! marking on injection folders :)

Lyrra, can you do that thing again? Things to consider: - XFX has a figure that actually does start with 'Zz'. - Phantast totally failed to grasp the cave metaphor. - Wouldn't it make more sense to name it '!!!XFX' so it would come before '!DAZ' if it was vanity? - !XFX does not contain injections, it contains channel definitions. Edit: Too late. OK.

I'm the asshole. You wanna be a shit? You gotta go through ME.

This is how my runtimelibraries folder looks:
!3DA
!AwfulSoul
!DAZ
!GreyPixel
!Pretty3D
!SF
!SWAM
!TW
b9999
camera
character
DFEF
face
goldtassel
hair
hand
L75
Lesthat
light
materials
Morphs
Pose
poses
props

I like all my original poser folders to be together. I don't like all these other folders mixed in with them... DFEF, goldtassel, L75, Lestha, etc. This is more annoying to me. Whatever would make these folders be separate from my Poser folders, either all on top, or all on bottom I don't care. Just outta my way.

Someone did name one Morphs, now that would work if everyone would do that, one folder mixed in wouldn't be so bad.

I was wondering, can the morph injection folders be placed in geometries? Or do they have to been in libraries?

Quote - Phantast totally failed to grasp the cave metaphor.

Not at all, I decided to treat it with the respect it deserved. And yes, I draw the same conclusions about Daz. Like so many companies, they like to see their name plastered everywhere.

(Worst of course is Microsoft. You notice how Windows doesn't sort Word files under W, it sorts them under M?)

Quote - (Worst of course is Microsoft. You notice how Windows doesn't sort Word files under W, it sorts them under M?)

er... huh?!

No matter what I do, I can't get my WinXP to sort word files under M. It either lists them alphabetically, according to what letter the file name begins with, or under D for.doc if I sort by extension...

You have to sort by "Type" (i.e. click on that column header in explorer).

If you really want to you can edit the file type descriptions.

BWAHAHAHAA!

Vendor names go to the back of the line for me....

For example:

:Runtime:libraries:pose:CHAR V3:MAT CHAR V3 Character/Product name - Merchantname

After much more thought, I can clean this up even more.

"Few are agreeable in conversation, because each thinks more of what he intends to say than that of what others are saying, and listens no more when he himself has a chance to speak." - Francois de la Rochefoucauld

Intel Core i7 920, 24GB RAM, GeForce GTX 1050 4GB video, 6TB HDD space
Poser 12: Inches (Poser(PC) user since 1 and the floppies/manual to prove it!)

Quote - You have to sort by "Type" (i.e. click on that column header in explorer).

Ah I see... I don't think I've ever used that sort option before, and frankly I see little use for it. Sort by either fiilename or extension seems more logical.

But yes, I can see that evil, vain Bill Gates also sorts .cab files under m.. MSCabinet..... Shame on you, Bill

PS.: Since you read everything on the Intarweb anyway: Bill.. will you marry me just for an hour or how long it takes for me to be entitled to inherit some of your zillions...

Quote - > Quote - Phantast totally failed to grasp the cave metaphor.

Not at all, I decided to treat it with the respect it deserved.

Really? Then explain it. Go for it.

Because I don't think you did get it at all. If you did, you might have actually gotten the point instead of insisting on carrying on your pointless tirade and flaming insultfest to every merchant who likes a little organisation with no basis or foundation to your argument when the reason one would want to sort and seperate and distinguish is obvious to anyone with half a brain.

TG: I use the Sort By Type thing all the time. Actually, all I have in the Sort By list is Name, Size, Type and Date Modified. In details view there are more options for columns, but Extension isn't one of them. This is in Win XP Pro. How do you do a sort by extension?

By preference, I actually default my folders to sort by Type, use Tiles, and Show In Groups, and keep 'Folders' on in the side. This keeps my CR2s seperate from the RSRs and PNGs, for instance, so when I want to select and edit several of them at once I don't have to bounce around the explorer window to get them all, usually. The sorting options are one of the things I actually wish the Macintosh finder did (along with copy-merging directories like all other operating systems do, instead of having to manually open a terminal and do a cp -r -i newfolder oldfolder which is what I end up doing to install Poser content on a Mac without wiping out my whole runtime which is what happens if you try it the Windows way).

I'm the asshole. You wanna be a shit? You gotta go through ME.

does the ! work within a folder? thinking about that for moving my sets around (within a properly labeled, no ! labeled folder - eg, Khai's Room / !mainroom.pz2 so the user can start off more easily)

Quote - does the ! work within a folder?

Sure

now the question is, would that be acceptable? I mean, I would do this so the base item, say !mainroom would appear at the top of the folder's list. (the folder being named normally, I don't need to compensate for anything :sneaky: ) so the user can see it right off.. but I know users like to reorganise things into other folders... so.. is it worth the potential complaints... hmm.... I suppose thats upto them not me..

For me, people who name their folders different across the different library categories are much more of a pain than those who add a !!! ;-). I'll rename them anyway, but it's easier to remove just the !!! ;-). You can't please everyone anyway, but I like workflow friendly folder content, so the main room at top is fine for me.

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: What does ! mean?