Tomsde opened this issue on May 04, 2006 · 89 posts
Tomsde posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 12:34 PM
I just wanted to say something, I will continue to support Apollo Maximus where ever he goes because he is an excellent alternative to a lot of the other male figures out there. I am saddened by this whole turn of events and I hope that new Apollo characters and clothing will continue to be developed and that he simply doesn't fade out of existance.
I deeply regret joing Content Paradise. I am not interested in the new line of Asian figures, while well crafted I don't usually use Asian characters in my renders. Nothing against them personally, just a matter of taste. The other CP only content is of little interest to me currently, I perfer Daz products to those native items though I do support and buy from merchants here and on Runtime DNA and Renderotica.
I will have to check Anton's website for future developments. If Anton reads this good luck with whatever you do. You've always been kind to me on the forums in the past.
jarm posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 12:46 PM
Does anybody know what happened to cause Anton to leave? Or is it all behind the scenes stuff?
Ironically I'm on the other side of the coin with regards to Daz/CP. I find the new figures at CP much easier and more rewarding to use, but each to their own.
I never got Apollo, not something that appealed, but it looked like a great model nonetheless.
artnik posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 1:44 PM
Anton explained the situation a day or two ago, here in this forum. If you search for "Anton" you'll probably be able to find it. He isn't discontinuing Apollo, just moving. Details were in his recent post
Miss Nancy posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 1:47 PM
maybe, in addition to his own sites, anton could sell him at 'rotica I recall they used him in alotta renders there. I dunno how diane or IB or legume feel about it, admittedly.
Acadia posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 2:08 PM
Quote - He isn't discontinuing Apollo, just moving.
Moving where? Seems like all of his bridges are burned.
He and Daz are on the outs.
Poser Pros is Daz.
Not sure what happened with RDNA.
He blew off Content Paradise.
Not sure what happened with Renderosity.
No where else really to go in the Poser community that has much traffic.
Sometimes in life we learn that it's necessary to make concessions in order to get the best possible position for ourselves. I fear with Anton though, that it's his way all the way or the highway and no meeting in the middle. Which is unfortunate and is the reason that Apollo is now homeless. You can't go around burning your bridges because eventually you get stranded and have no where to go :(
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
TrekkieGrrrl posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 2:23 PM
First of all I want to say: Apollo is a GREAT character. I really like him. He's innovative in so many ways!
but...
well...
I'll probably buy stuff for Apollo that other people have made, as it's not their fault/problem how Anton behaves.
I will, however, not buy anything from the creator before he has at LEAST acknowledged that he was in the wrong. It would suit him to actually apologise but that's just not likely to happen as he's 110% convinced that he as right and the rest of us are blind, drug-addicted trolls that just won't admit it.
Boycotts actually work. They worked on Shell, McD, France, SouthAfrica...you name it...
FREEBIES! | My Gallery | My Store | My FB | Tumblr |
You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.
odeathoflife posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 2:23 PM
I really have been meaning to get apollo, and will once he is here ( anton says that he has been talking to clint but the file size is an issue that has to be worked out or something very similar).
About Clark, he is a pale comarison to even teh p4 dork, and I do not think that i would use him even if he was free. I truly like James though, and use the RR versions of Daz's characters just cause they are easier but Yuki is still my favorite character :)
♠Ω Poser eZine
Ω♠
♠Ω Poser Free Stuff
Ω♠
♠Ω My Homepage Ω♠
www.3rddimensiongraphics.net
carodan posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 2:29 PM
I have a strong belief in the concepts and functionality of Apollo. I don't think we've seen a fraction of the full potential of this model, or what could be achieved in a female version with those ideas.
As with any figure that is released, further development expands its usability and creates ever more versatility - Capsces Cole morphs represents one of the stronger products that did appear quite early on for him, and there have been great textures and poses - I only wish there was more of such quality.
I too think the events of the past week have played out very badly for Apollo and Anton. In my laymans observations of anything that has a public face, there is always a lot more that goes on behind the scenes that ultimately influences the turn of events - business and personal relationships, personalities and histories and all that stuff.
In the end, as more of a consumer of 3d content than anything else up to now, my main concern is doing the projects for which I got into Poser in the first place. I identified Apollo as having all the potential elements I was looking for in a male figure (incidentally the same ideals that e-frontier used to use to market the default P6 Jessie and James - that with them you could make just about any human character you could imagine - They don't use that ideal any more).
Apollo comes closest to those ideals anyway IMO, far more so than any of the Daz figures - different approach really I guess, but one that really makes sense to me.
I'm pretty sure there will be further products in the near future. I've been developing a lot of different character types for my own work using Cole, and I have been considering putting these up either as freebies (as I've done with a few ADS poses for default Apollo) or for sale - not quite sure which yet.
I truly hope we haven't seen the last of this great figure or it's creator. I'd lay money on the fact that if they both did suddenly fall off the scene, someone else would step in very quickly with a similar idea or approach. JMO
PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.
www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com
Farside posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 3:00 PM
Apollo is the best male character I've seen to date and I hope he resurfaces and is supported. Anton may or may not have been right about Clark, there certainly were large coincidences but the only person who knows for sure is the person who made him. Everyone else is just guessing or expressing an opinion and that is all.
Anton by going public the way he did definitely did not handle this the right way however but not being perfect myself and having handled certain things in the wrong way before myself, I'm certainly willing to cut the guy a break.
quixote posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 3:02 PM
My opinion....fwiw
I don't own Apollo, but even if I did, I would not consider that Anton or anyone else owes me an apology. I don't get that point at all. He had a decision to make and he made it. It's not up to me to judge him for that decision, and that's especially true since I don't know all the details of what went down, nor, I hasten to add, should I.
I wish him great good fortune.
Q
Un coup de dés jamais n'abolira le
hazard
S Mallarmé
stahlratte posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 3:03 PM
Apollo will definitely never find a home in my runtime.
Not just because of the behaviour of his creator, but mainly because I find the concept of multiple bodyparts and simplistic geometry to be a great step backwards from the realism and useability what we already gained.
I sincerely hope that DAZ and E-Frontier will keep their philosophy of doing detailed meshes that are easy to work with and straightforward cr2´s without any posing gimmicks.
So sorry, but in my Runtime the rule is:
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
And just for the record, I REALLY don´t mind if someone thinks that a mesh that can stretch like Mr Fantastic is the next best thing to sliced bread, but please, why can´t you just use and enjoy him silently, just like the majority of M2, M3, D3, Don and Dork users do ?
Stahlratte
Jimdoria posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 3:06 PM
Carodan, I don't know how quickly we're likely to see another product like Apollo Maximus.
Creating something like that requires both a great deal of artistic skill and a great deal of technical proficiency. Not many people have both of these qualities, in even moderate amounts.
Plus, as we have seen, even if you sweat and labor to produce a superior product in this market, there is no guarantee it will be snapped up or that your efforts will be rewarded. Quite the opposite. In fact, there are a couple of rules that seem to hold true in the tech industry generally:
If I had the skill and technical chops to duplicate the kind of work Anton did, I wouldn't do it, seeing the problems he's had. I'd feel that way even if there was no threat of skullduggery by existing vendors!
carodan posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 3:36 PM
Maybe you're right Jimdoria. Maybe Apollo is just too sophisticated to be recreated too soon.
I might tend to agree that some of Apollo's mesh is light in places. There are advantages and disadvantages to this depending on your project requirements.
PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.
www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com
odeathoflife posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 3:40 PM
Quote - because I find the concept of multiple bodyparts and simplistic geometry to be a great step backwards from the realism and useability what we already gained.
Stahlratte
Uber dense mesh doens't equal high quality, a useable mesh = high quality. Just cause some vendors think that a 3 time subdivide is better then say a 2 times subdivide is bettter doesn't make it so. From what I have seen ( and again I state that I DO NOT HAVE apollo) from apollo renders and the absolute sheer differences that the character can achive is mind boggling, I would like to see you make m3 into a baby and animate him straight to an old man, seriously, if you do and can then come back and show us all. Till then I will continue to count my pennies for apollo. That is the mark of a top quality figure.
♠Ω Poser eZine
Ω♠
♠Ω Poser Free Stuff
Ω♠
♠Ω My Homepage Ω♠
www.3rddimensiongraphics.net
Hawkfyr posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 3:46 PM
I agree odeathoflife
Give me a responsive lower res mesh than a bloated hi-res mesh any day.
"It's not the "number" of polygons,but rather the "shape" that is important."
Anton told me that once and as I've tried to create my own characters,I can see he is right about that.
Tom
“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”
byAnton posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 3:48 PM
Today Renderosity recinded all recent and previous offers for me to have a store here. Apollo will be retired and I am leaving the community. New info is at my site.
I leave angered and resentfrul at merchants like ernyoka, members like Acadia, and store people like JenyK
To railroad and troll and to ignore it and pretend it isn't happening is despicable. So the combined Poser stores, witho their secrets and intigues have managed to squeeze me out. COngratulations but at least they had to band together, if even in secret and over years to do it.
"TOS" means "To obey silently"
I leave with my honesty, my convinctions and zero respect for a level of commnity wide corruption I happily leave behind.
To my supports I thank them and wish you well in life. To those that sat silent over years and sites, I abhore you. To the mentally ill that now run our forums, well you wou;dn't understand anyway.
Goodbye,
Anton
PS: DOn't bother sending me IM's and email now with silent support. I am sorry but the anger I have over such lack of honesty is not capable of ebing expressed.
-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the
face of truth is concealment."
odeathoflife posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 3:51 PM
Well wish you well, and I wish that I got Apollo before.
SHIT.
♠Ω Poser eZine
Ω♠
♠Ω Poser Free Stuff
Ω♠
♠Ω My Homepage Ω♠
www.3rddimensiongraphics.net
Khai posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 3:55 PM
oh. more drama.
yawn
Farside posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 4:06 PM
Well, that's truely ashame Anton. I will miss Apollo, and you... for a couple hours anyway then I'll move on. You've taken a really good thing and needlessly killed it for no real valid reason at all.
And by quitting like this all you've done is hurt yourself, no one else. May I suggest you get some councelling and maybe some anger management therapy, then once you've cooled off try rethinking your decision. Life's simply too short for this crap to destroy your work over.
carodan posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 4:13 PM
Very sad news indeed.
I wish you all the best for the future, Anton.
I've found you to be incredibly helpful and supportive in the short time that I've known you. Only sorry that it was toward the end of your Poser career.
Apollo still rocks as far as I'm concerned.
PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.
www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com
bucketload3D posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 4:14 PM
Quote - Today Renderosity recinded all recent and previous offers for me to have a store here. Apollo will be retired and I am leaving the community. New info is at my site.
I leave angered and resentfrul at merchants like ernyoka, members like Acadia, and store people like JenyK
To railroad and troll and to ignore it and pretend it isn't happening is despicable. So the combined Poser stores, witho their secrets and intigues have managed to squeeze me out. COngratulations but at least they had to band together, if even in secret and over years to do it.
"TOS" means "To obey silently"
I leave with my honesty, my convinctions and zero respect for a level of commnity wide corruption I happily leave behind.
To my supports I thank them and wish you well in life. To those that sat silent over years and sites, I abhore you. To the mentally ill that now run our forums, well you wou;dn't understand anyway.
Goodbye,
Anton
PS: DOn't bother sending me IM's and email now with silent support. I am sorry but the anger I have over such lack of honesty is not capable of ebing expressed.
So not getting into the mudslinging fest of THAT thread or any other thread deserves nothing but being loathed and stomped on? Nice way of treating supporters :crying: kitty5
www.Bucketload3d.com - where cool
freebies are ~(==^..^)
richardson posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 4:37 PM
Be happy. Mediocrity will soon prevail. Just a few more sharp edges to dull down.
Puntomaus posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 4:49 PM
:sad:
Every
organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian
Assange
quixote posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 4:54 PM
Well put.
Un coup de dés jamais n'abolira le
hazard
S Mallarmé
Puntomaus posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 4:55 PM
Quote - I will, however, not buy anything from the creator before he has at LEAST acknowledged that he was in the wrong. It would suit him to actually apologise but that's just not likely to happen as he's 110% convinced that he as right and the rest of us are blind, drug-addicted trolls that just won't admit it.
Boycotts actually work. They worked on Shell, McD, France, SouthAfrica...you name it...
Why should he apologise or acknowledge he was wrong when he thinks he is right? I said it elsewhere and repeat over here, I do not think he is going to make up something just for fun. I would not apologise either if I made a statement that I believe is right only because other people think I'm wrong.
Every
organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian
Assange
drifterlee posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 5:42 PM
Well this stinks because I just got Apollo as a gift and bought stuff for him. Why yank a good product because you are angry at another merchant??? This doesn't make any sense. And why did renderosity rescind their offer for Apollo? It's not like all the merchants work in a big office together and there might be a fist fight...
xoconostle posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 6:36 PM
Quote - PS: DOn't bother sending me IM's and email now with silent support. I am sorry but the anger I have over such lack of honesty is not capable of ebing expressed.
I don't understand this. You sent two e-mails to me. I wrote back expressing some personal (and sincere) words of support after reading about your decision to leave the community in those e-mails. I had no idea that you had asked people NOT to send supportive messages because I hadn't seen this posting yet. I don't understand why you would reject what support you still have at this point. There was certainly no dishonesty in what I expressed to you. I chose not to dive into the Renderosity threads on Clark and Apollo, because as an enthusiastic owner of both meshes, I wanted to see how things played out, and did not want to get into the ugliness. I won't accept that there was anything dishonest about my message or how I chose to convey it. If you send an e-mail to someone's private e-mail address, a private reply is normal, not cowardly or dishonest. Perhaps I've misunderstood your words as quoted, but ... I just don't get it.
billy423uk posted Thu, 04 May 2006 at 6:41 PM
i don't think he should apologise for what he thought happened re the clark model...not in public anyway, but he did accuse a lot of people of some not so nice things. all because they didn't agree with him. i think maybe an apologee or two in that respect would be in order. sometimes even if i don;t think people are right i offer an apologee. it a way of showing no malice was meant. i think those in the cat forum can atest to what i say lmao. whatever. it seems everyone loved apollo no matter their opinions about what went on here. that something anton will always have.
i will say that i can't understand why people who commit or attempt suicide leave notes.
billy
TrekkieGrrrl posted Fri, 05 May 2006 at 5:18 AM
I've stated elsewhere that I don't think it's likely Anton will apologize for thinking Clark is a copy, because he DOES believe in it, and believes he's right.
But his conduct in the thread, not especially against me but towards some other people... well... That's what has made me not want to deal with it anymore.
I'm sorry Anton feels resentful against me, that just shows how he's hearing what he wants to hear and not what people are actually telling him...
Anton is not my enemy. I have always and will always admire him as a great modeler, and I truly love Apollo and I'm saddened to see him yanked for no valid reason.
When someone takes his toys and leaves the other kids.. who is it hurting the most?
FREEBIES! | My Gallery | My Store | My FB | Tumblr |
You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.
Lucie posted Fri, 05 May 2006 at 6:25 AM
But his conduct in the thread, not especially against me but towards some other people...
His conduct towards others may not have been exemplary in that thread, but the conduct of some others towards him hasn't been all that nice and exemplary either. One of the first comments was that he had made this up to destroy a competitor's reputation, it wasn't considered that maybe he was convinced that he was right and was just trying to warn others. Because it was Anton it had to be some evil scheme of his...
Tomsde posted Fri, 05 May 2006 at 6:53 AM
Apollo's retirement is a loss to everyone in the Poser community because there are very few alternatives out there. I agree that computer hogging unimesh figures aren't the answer to everyone's needs. Were Poser actually able to handle the memory demands of modern systems it would be okay, but in it's current code it doesn't. The texture maps are what really imbues a figure with life. If you look at any of the figures without their skin you will see a mere charicature of a human being that no one could possibly find "real" looking. I'm all about diversity and the more artists produce viable Poser figures the more options 3D artists will have for their pictures, morphs have certain limits that can't address this alone.
Dave posted Fri, 05 May 2006 at 7:47 AM
All I can say is two words for the public announcement: Drama Queen.
And here I almost bought the upgrade at CP when it was $20. Had more pressing matters at the time that I had to deal with. Guess I'm SOL now.
David
stahlratte posted Fri, 05 May 2006 at 8:01 AM
QUOTE: "I'm all about diversity and the more artists produce viable Poser figures the more options 3D artists will have for their pictures, morphs have certain limits that can't address this alone."
A mesh is a mesh is a mesh....
...and you can give it any shape you want, not just the few that DAZ puts into their morph sets.
Look at As Shanims KIELO and ernyoka1´s GEEZER to see that we haven´t even scratched the surface of the Unimesh´ abilities yet.
http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=42866
http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=35684
Stahlratte
Jimdoria posted Fri, 05 May 2006 at 8:16 AM
Well, I too am sorry to see Apollo consigned to a premature burial... um, "retired". I was glad to see an alternative to the DAZ way be put forth, and when he was released I'd hoped it was the beginning of a good trend. It seems like a very technically sound product. Pity I'll never get to try it now.
And the next time I see some economist claiming that buyers and sellers in the market always act based on rational self-interest, I'm sending them a link to this forum!
Acadia posted Fri, 05 May 2006 at 8:19 AM
Quote - I leave angered and resentfrul at merchants like ernyoka, members like Acadia, and store people like JenyK
Ummm? Thanks for singling me out there Anton! In case you hadn't noticed I've been one of your supporters ever since I came to this community. I even over looked the slam you and Machine made against me not so long ago. Perhaps you've also forgotten how many times I've sent you PM's offering you my support and encouragment and telling you to ignore the trolls on the boards who were trying to get under your skin, the very latest of which was the day before yesterday.
Quote - To railroad and troll and to ignore it and pretend it isn't happening is despicable. So the combined Poser stores, witho their secrets and intigues have managed to squeeze me out. COngratulations but at least they had to band together, if even in secret and over years to do it.
I know this might be hard for you to see and accept, but the only person responsible for squeezing you out of the main stores, is you. I only know you from our few talks in PM and from how I see you conduct yourself on the boards. I like you Anton, and I respect you as a person and deeply admire your talent. However, I spend enough time on these boards and others to know that you aren't exactly the easiest person to deal with when it comes to business.
My post above was not a slam against you. It was an observation and restatement of facts that are widely known. You haven't exactly been secretive about what's been going on with your store ventures or misadventures; quite vocal really. There has been an "incident" with every store you have been associated with that has resulted in you leaving, and slamming the door behind you in the process.
You have amazing talent in your craft. Absolutely amazing. I was so surprised to find that so many of the items that I see around the poser community, and that I have in my own library were created by you. However, modelling talent aside, you lack in the ability to market your wares without offending for some reason.
EF gave you an amazing opportunity to get Apollo out there and into so many hands, but instead of trying to work through the initial bumps, you break your agreement with them and leave after a few weeks. Now Apollo is homeless, retired and seemingly so are you.
Quote - I leave with my honesty, my convinctions and zero respect for a level of commnity wide corruption I happily leave behind.
Despite your misdirected hatred and animosity I still call you "friend". > Quote - To the mentally ill that now run our forums, well you wou;dn't understand anyway.
I thought you of all people who hated being slammed or picked on, would know better than to say something like that. Some people here have been your friend and alia and you repay them by calling them mentally ill? Nice :(
Quote - PS: DOn't bother sending me IM's and email now with silent support.
I wouldn't dream of it. I had offered you my shoulder and my support and encouragment many times over the months. It seems to me that you are the one being dishonst here. I now find out that you consider me your enemy?
Quote - I am sorry but the anger I have over such lack of honesty is not capable of ebing expressed.
I have been nothing but honest. It's you who have been otherwise.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
ynsaen posted Fri, 05 May 2006 at 8:45 AM
Ok, here I am.
Beat the hell outta me.
As you do, some comments:
1 - I did consider that Anton believed what he claimed. In point of fact, when I looked at the meshes, I went above and beyond what he provided, and I looked hard. Becuase it was anton, and while I might not be the greatest fan of his historic behavior, I am a huge fan of his work. The two concepts are disassociated, however, for me. I believed there were going to be issues. I expected them. I hunted for them. Hard. And I did not find them.
2 - Anton did more deleting of posts in that hell thread than the mods here did.
3 - Anton's historic behavior, if you are not familiar with it, is the reason these suppostions were made. The same way that people will, forever, assume that I exist solely to torment others in times of pain. I don't make them lightly, nor without consideration and examination of details from many sources.
4 - I am not the reason Apollo is not available anymore. I do not have any influence over the conduct or decisions of the administration of this site. My editorializing of the situation was only as influential as it was taken by those that read it. I think apollo is a great figure, and said so several times. And I believe support for him should continue, regardless of availability.
5 - Note carefully that Anton did not apparently single me out in his message. Also, note that the message as posted above was not the original one posted on his site:
"Today Renderosity recinded all recent and previous offers for me to have a store here. Apollo will be retired and I am leaving the community. New info is at my site. I leave angered and resentfrul at merchants like ernyoka, members like Acadia, and store people like JenyK To railroad and troll and to ignore it and pretend it isn't happening is despicable. So the combined Poser stores, witho their secrets and intigues have managed to squeeze me out. COngratulations but at least they had to band together, if even in secret and over years to do it. "TOS" means "To obey silently" I leave with my honesty, my convinctions and zero respect for a level of commnity wide corruption I happily leave behind. To my supports I thank them and wish you well in life. To those that sat silent over years and sites, I abhore you. To the mentally ill that now run our forums, well you wou;dn't understand anyway. Goodbye, Anton PS: DOn't bother sending me IM's and email now with silent support. I am sorry but the anger I have over such lack of honesty is not capable of ebing expressed."
6 - Anton does not need to apologize. It would be nice if he did, but that's not a need.
And, Lastly, if Anton really does believe all of this, he will do what he should have done in the first place: file claim. ANd I don't mean with Rosity, I mean in a court of law. It is not as expensive as some think, and those costs can be recouped from the loser.
THese types of "events" should never be played out in the forums. Ever. For any reason. Complaints should be brought to the stores in private, should be investigated, the stores should be allowed to decide, and then, after all of that is done, a posting should be made stating facts as simply and as directly as the statement made in this case, and locked. People do deserve to know when there is an infringement. They do not need to have the opportunity to create a 750+ post thread about it.
beat away.
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
albertdelfosse posted Fri, 05 May 2006 at 10:40 AM
To bad that Apollo was removed from cp etc. I rather liked the character. I hope Anton puts up hi own store, and sell's his stuff there. That way he does not have to put up with all the stuff going on at various poser store sites.
usslopez posted Fri, 05 May 2006 at 12:26 PM
Well... I sat back and watched.... man was it all crazy... but anyway.. I'm sure I'll continue to support Apollo with textures.. It's not a big $ making thing but hey... it doesn't hurt me to spend my free time in a postive way by learning the ins and outs of Photoshop and my ancient version of Deep Paint. Actually I have something in the works, that is, if I can get my face model to ever show up! haha!
Things come, things go, the same with people but you can't stop living your life because of it. Yes Apollo may be gone but in the immortal words of Zulema from Project Runway "I don't care if you cry and cut, but you need to cry and cut. Don't stop and cry." So keep on cutting ya'll.....
btw.. looking for an artzone invite.. !! anyone? {{crickets}} hellooo? {{crickets}}
PapaBlueMarlin posted Fri, 05 May 2006 at 4:24 PM
Interesting...
usslopez posted Fri, 05 May 2006 at 4:36 PM
I got an invite!!! Thanks!
Bobasaur posted Fri, 05 May 2006 at 4:53 PM
Attached Link: The offer is still good
Sheesh???? I get busy at work and am out of this forum for just a few days and look what happens. I guess some of ya'll haven't been wearing the Present I gave you.Before they made me they broke the mold!
http://home.roadrunner.com/~kflach/
LostinSpaceman posted Fri, 05 May 2006 at 5:29 PM
Well shoot Usslopez, just ignore the PM I sent ya. If I'd scrolled down I'd have seen you got your invite. Just so everyone knows I wasn't hitting on you in PM, even if you are cute, I was saying I had 10 invites available for Artzone.
usslopez posted Fri, 05 May 2006 at 6:03 PM
Thanks Mizrael..! and for the complement too (insert "awe shucks" blushing smiley here)
I got an invite from xoconostle but I couldn't log in anyways ... maybe it'll work later.. it just takes me to the start page...
Thanx xoco!
jjsemp posted Fri, 05 May 2006 at 8:26 PM
Brilliant, creative geniuses are usually temperamental. I think Anton's vast contributions to this community should have bought him lots of leeway when it comes to his behavior, which wasn't that bad at all, really.
So, we lose Appollo Maximus and we gain what in it's place?
Clark?
Am I missing something?
Isn't Clark sort of a waste of hard drive space?
Clark is less well-made than the P4 Dork or James, two underrated figures that are routinely dismissed as "useless" and "unpopular."
Clark is a cheap, crude, weird-looking figure with no textures or morphs.
And this is what people are getting excited about? Have we lost our collective minds?
I figure Anton will be back. Creative geniuses frequently throw "snits" and then calm down.
But let's not ever lose a real talent like Anton's in exchange for something so useless that it's borderline embarrassing.
If all this erupted over a really useful, well-made modification like Domus, maybe, I could understand. But for Clark?
Puh-leeze.
P.S. I think Anton's right. I think Clark is crudely "inspired" by Appollo Maximus. But I never would have gone public with such an accusation. Why bother? After the initial (and totally inexplicable) excitement over Clark dies down, the figure will suffer the same fate as Sarah, Alexa, The Girl and other peripheral figures that don't catch the public's fancy. Anybody remember ugly, old Dinah? Didn't think so. And she was a heck of a lot prettier than Clark.
Kendra posted Fri, 05 May 2006 at 11:48 PM
Quote - I think Anton's vast contributions to this community should have bought him lots of leeway when it comes to his behavior
No, it didn't.
Quote - But let's not ever lose a real talent like Anton's in exchange for something so useless that it's borderline embarrassing. If all this erupted over a really useful, well-made modification like Domus, maybe, I could understand. But for Clark?
The facts do not support Antons "roughly shaped" accusation. What's left? A popularity contest? Not very mature. No one made Anton leave in a hissy fit, he did that all on his own. Shahara didn't force him out, Ynsaen didn't single-handedly deprive anyone of Apollo, Anton made that decision to run all on his own.
...... Kendra
Farside posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 12:10 AM
facts?
the main problem here was there simply are no real facts about Clark, just opinions. It's almost impossible to prove one way or the other, there's only multiple "coincidences" and accusations. Only one person truly knows for sure and that's Shahara. This will never be settled to a certainty, it will simply be forgotten in time
Berserga posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 12:28 AM
Quote - Anybody remember ugly, old Dinah? Didn't think so. And she was a heck of a lot prettier than Clark.
First off it's Dina, and I remember her plenty well, just used her commercially not more than a month ago. Dina was a damn good model I dunno shit about Clark or Maximus,. But I do know that Anton is acting like a world class wanker.
MoeGoofie posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 12:37 AM
Anton leaving is a loss.
You can reject it, downplay it, dramatize it, shake it, slam it, laugh at it or sweep it under the rug - it's a loss. He has and will continue to contribute to our 3D world long after he's moved on as we continue to use his products and share them in the gallery.
Oh, and Daz didn't invent the 3D world. They just enhance it. Nothing more.
"To pass your plate is nothing new." - MG
TrekkieGrrrl posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 3:43 AM
I don't think anyone is exactely cheering at the fact that Anton left and took Apollo with him. I for one do not. I'm honestly saddened that the Poser world has been deprived of Apollo because that character seriously ROCKS!
But it is no one's decision but Anton's. No one pushed him out of the door here. And trying to turn the facts that way, and indeed singling out someone like Acadia who has been truly supportative to Anton all along is simply bad behaviour. Childish, even.
I'll miss Apollo. As for Anton, I hope he comes back later when everything has cooled off. It's not the first time he has left the community for ever...
FREEBIES! | My Gallery | My Store | My FB | Tumblr |
You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.
LostinSpaceman posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 4:07 AM
Factoid 1: Within a day of his release, Clark had not 1 but Two complete professional photographically based skin texture sets for under $13.
Factoid 2: Within a week, Clark had one minor set of facial morphs and one complete set of facial morphs that got held up in their release by the debate for another week!
Factoid 3: Thanks to PhilC, Clark had Wardrobe Wizard Support for clothing within a week of his public release.
Factoid 4: I am a customer of both figures. I paid 10 times less for Clark and learned more about the workings and use of Poser, CR2 editing, Morphs, Dynamic clothing, texturing and Firefly render settings using his imperfect figure than I ever learned while using Apollo.
Factoid: 5: I still prefer James over any other Male figure.
Opinion: I'm keeping that to myself. Men of Good Character Keep Good Company.
kuroyume0161 posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 5:55 AM
Factoid X: Clark is no Apollo Maximus by any stretch. ;OP
Get over it. I'm sorry, the "I can create a human figure in an hour" ploy is B.S. (talk to Penn & Teller). Quality (static) human figures take weeks - talk to any PROFESSIONAL in the business. Quality Poser human figures can take months - because they aren't static but are expected to be morphed and scaled and tugged and pulled in all sorts of directions. Apollo Maximus is a quality Poser figure which stands up to most of that rigor. Can you say "edge loops" or the preparatory work involved in planning for dozens of morphs and proper joint deformations? I know from experience that the more flexible a figure, the more complex and the more time required to plan, design, and execute it (and I haven't even done a human figure!).
That said, I'm appalled at the bickering (from both sides, mind you) over this matter. Now I remember why I don't get involved in these minute internal matters - too much personal vendetta and cronyism.
I hope that Anton can find his 'center' and drop all of the conflicts that have caused the disaster before us. He should have sold AM to DAZ for a princely sum and been released from it. At least we'd have Apollo the faerie and Apollo the alien hunter by now... ;)
'Nuf said
C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the
foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg
off.
-- Bjarne
Stroustrup
Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone
TrekkieGrrrl posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 6:24 AM
The funny thing is.. The only person who in any way claimed that Clark = Apollo... is Anton. The rest of us (well more or less) were perfectly capable of acknowledging that Apollo is a character VASTLY superior to Clark, in almost any respect (the place where Clark REALLY shines is the textures IMO)
So it's not really a question of Clark being "as good as" Apollo. He's not. But he's a new toy and the Poser community loves new toys!
I really wish people would stop comparing them. It's like comparing a Trabant to a Ferrari. Both will take you somewhere, but at a highly different level.
But still there's a lot of people who actually like their Trabi's... They've become cult. Much like Clark. Not because they're better, but because they're different.
FREEBIES! | My Gallery | My Store | My FB | Tumblr |
You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.
virium posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 7:11 AM
I agree, not once did anyone even hint Clark was better. It was just different. And different is very good in a weak market. Clark was compared to M2 until anton forgot to take his happy pills.
I have never used AM and didn't plan on ever using it because of the cost. Those of you saying anton leaving is a loss remember nature abhors a void. There will be others that will fill it.
To have given anton some sort of major celebrity status that allowed him to pressure stores into pulling other characters based on no substancial evidence would be more of a loss to the community than the loss of one person. [cue munchkin music]
Support new developers. They are learning from every piece they create. They shouldn't have to fear the communty's wrath for presenting their work to the public.
Kendra posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 12:22 PM
Quote - Get over it. I'm sorry, the "I can create a human figure in an hour" ploy is B.S. (talk to Penn & Teller). Quality (static) human figures take weeks - talk to any PROFESSIONAL in the business.
Unless I missed something or you have first hand knowledge, how do you know he didn't work for months? Shahara is not Anton. Anton is no Dodger. Everyone is different in how and what they create and thankfully so. That Clark isn't as good as Apollo isn't the issue. As ernyoka said, no one said Clark was better. The point here is that if Shahara is cleared of the accusation he has every right to be in the marketplace without being compared to someone else. Diminishing someone's hard work to a comparison of another is sophomoric.
...... Kendra
Hawkfyr posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 1:01 PM
Well at least you are not "Freshmanic" Robert.
In fact, many might consider you "Junioric".
But you have always been "Senioric" in my book Amigo.
8 )
Tom
“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”
Miss Nancy posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 1:47 PM
regarding anton being pushed out the door, I have to suggest that he wasn't explicitly shown the door by either CP or 'rosity, but neither of them made a public attempt to meet him halfway AFAIK. there is such a thing as diplomacy and negotiation, after all. add to that his many detractors engaging in the usual lynch mob, and the hostile environment obviously made it difficult for him to continue. yes, we all know that anton has been over-zealous in the defence of his products, and we're familiar with his activities going back as far as 99 or 00, hence I was disappointed to see his detractors goading him yet again, like so many raucous crows mobbing an old owl on the forest's edge. in the matter of clark being good or superior in regard to textures, I have a question about that. I don't own clark, haven't seen the texmap or template, but I think I saw a suggestion that his mapping was a step backwards. if anybody can show me a link to clark's template that doesn't violate its terms of use, I'd like to check it out, if only to disabuse me of any concerns in that matter.
pleonastic posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 2:17 PM
umm, mizrael? [channels inigo montoya:] you keep using that word -- factoid -- i do not think it means what you think it means. :)
comparisons are sophomoric? blink. and to think that i make them all the time when i am deciding where to put my hard-earned money. don't be silly. comparisons are a perfectly valid tool, we all use them every day in nearly every venue. saying one figure is not as well-developed as another is a reasonable assessment when -- as in this case -- backed up by evidence. if that alone discourages a merchant, maybe they're not ready to be a merchant. i'm all for encouragement, but not at the expense of truthfulness. that said, i think the clark bashing should stop now, and people who want to play with him shouldn't be lambasted. i also don't believe there is an actual choice here between a great figure and a mediocre one -- apollo and clark are not the only male figures in existence, and we have several new ones on the horizon. if anton is going to hurt his own figure by withdrawing apollo, well, i am sad to see that, but ... what can you do if somebody insists to cut off their nose to spite their face? an artificial choice forced on us should not make us give special concessions to the maker of the better figure. i don't think temper tantrums by merchants should be encouraged either, ya know?
TrekkieGrrrl posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 2:18 PM
Quote - regarding anton being pushed out the door, I have to suggest that he wasn't explicitly shown the door by either CP or 'rosity, but neither of them made a public attempt to meet him halfway AFAIK. there is such a thing as diplomacy and negotiation, after all.
Do you actually KNOW what negotiations that has or hasn't been conducted between Anton and CP/Rosity. From both parties?
Note that I am NOT saying you're not right, I'm just asking a question.
As for the templates, here are some very resized and reduced versions of the textures. IMO it's a VERY nice use of the space available on the texture map. And the textures themselves are very very high quality. Just like the other ones I've seen from Shahara. Actually the textures are the best part of Clark L But he's not half bad himself either ;o)
FREEBIES! | My Gallery | My Store | My FB | Tumblr |
You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.
LostinSpaceman posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 2:41 PM
Factoid - Def - something resembling a fact.
I'd say my list fit's that definition perfectly, they were fact's mixed with my opinion which of course makes them, erm, not completely factual.
The only reason I put those little factoids out were because of someone's claims that Clark had no textures or Morphs. That was an outright lie and needed to be corrected.
As for all these accusations against his detractors, I'd like to hear evidence that what was said against him wasn't the complete historical truth of his personality disorder. His complete inability to compromise and work with others shows itself time and again through his mutiple grand exit's and falling outs with all four of the major Poser stores. You know, it's said that when you have a problem with a few people, it's something they did wrong, but when you have a problem with everyone, maybe you should look a little closer to home.
jjsemp posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 3:56 PM
Quote - i don't think temper tantrums by merchants should be encouraged either, ya know?
I think temper tantrums by merchants should be IGNORED -- and Anton's was not.
And, I think Anton should have IGNORED Clark altogether. One brief look at Clark and I had very little trouble ignoring him (sorry, couldn't resist a quick, drive-by bash :tt2:).
People get all hot and bothered in these forums over things that should just be ignored. And inflammatory posts and blogs by a given merchant's friends do nothing but fan the fire.
I personally don't think Anton needed to go public with his accusations, but he had a RIGHT to if he wanted. In a forum where the "copyright gestapo" routinely descend like hawks on anyone who is perceived as infringing on a copyright, it's not like this behavior is uncharacteristic of these forums.
And given the quality of Anton's work and his vast contributions to the community, we could have quietly given him his moment in court.
After all, it wasn't so long ago, when he was openly creating Appollo Maximus in Product Showcase, that these forums were filled with the virtual sounds of people routinely kissing Anton's cyber-derriere.
That having been said, once the accusations were leveled, it was then up to Anton, Shahara and the 'osity to work it out between themselves.
We ALL should have just stayed out of it.
I believe it was Plato who once said: "Jumping into somebody else's argument is just...ynsaen!"
LostinSpaceman posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 4:02 PM
Unfortunately JJ, We were there in OUR Clark thread as "Customers" and it was Anton who came into a thread he wasn't involved in for no reason other than to bash, hack and slash and generally attack everyone who was using Clark at that time. Stay out of it my arse! If he'd wanted to make his claims public, he damned well should have started his own thread instead of hijacking one that was for discussing Clark. PERIOD!
PapaBlueMarlin posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 4:20 PM
Actually, I intrepreted his statement completely differently. It is not uncommon for an artist filing an infringement claim to make a statement to the customers of the product in question. SteffyZ did the same thing when ByteMeOK's textures were in question. His original post did not appear to be meant for inciting anything, just a notification that people may have gotten ripped off. It was a very brave thing to do. As for entering into your thread, why should he forfeit the opportunity to defend himself just because you started a new thread? In addition, there were several posts calling him names such as drama queen, where is the evidence that he actually he hijacked the thread whereas just opened himself up to more criticism? I think a lot of people have tried to incite more drama by taking some of his comments too literally.
Acadia posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 4:30 PM
Quote - It is not uncommon for an artist filing an infringement claim to make a statement to the customers of the product in question. SteffyZ did the same thing when ByteMeOK's textures were in question. His original post did not appear to be meant for inciting anything, just a notification that people may have gotten ripped off.
I didn't see what was posted and haven't read that thread. Also, I wasn't here during the SteffyZ situation, but I do know that both turned into 3 ring circuses, resulting in hurt feelings, marred reputations and people leaving.
This is a classic example of why I feel that any copyright accusations/claims should be dealt with in a professional manner and handled off of the boards in private between the parties involved and the store administration.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
quixote posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 4:45 PM
Well said Acadia.
In fact this community should perhaps set up a board of
arbiters with an established and accepted methodology to help resolve these issues out of the public view.
Un coup de dés jamais n'abolira le
hazard
S Mallarmé
Acadia posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 4:48 PM
Quote - And inflammatory posts and blogs by a given merchant's friends do nothing but fan the fire.
My initial post in this thread was not meant to be "inflammatory", nor was it meant as a "slam" against Anton.
However, in hindsight (which unfortunately is 20/20 clarity), I can see how Anton might have deemed it that way seeing that he's been under the microscope and on the defense for some time. Perhaps I should have just kept my thoughts to myself instead of thinking out loud on a public forum.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
ynsaen posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 4:53 PM
I believe it was Plato who once said: "Jumping into somebody else's argument is just...ynsaen!"
May I use that? I ask because its too good to just let get lost, lol
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
Dave-So posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 4:53 PM
NEWS ALERT !!!!
another great piece of Saturday afternoon drama in Poserland.
Will it ever end?
This world has more flips and flops then As The World Turns or General Hospital.
now back to regularly scheduled programming.
Humankind has not
woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound
together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle,
1854
quixote posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 5:01 PM
There are more divas here than at an Academy Awards presentation...
Now.
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the Acadamy....
oh forget it....
:)
Un coup de dés jamais n'abolira le
hazard
S Mallarmé
ynsaen posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 5:02 PM
no, no -- I"m serious!!
I'm not offended, I'm not hurt, I'm laughing my ass off.
That really is an awesome line!!
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
AlleyKatArt posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 5:06 PM
Just to put my two cents in, again, because I'm a loud mouth and cannot help it...
No. Just... no. We should not turn a blind eye to someone who purposefully defames, degrades and insults fellow members of a community just because they're popular, talented or cool.
To use a real world analogy, this is like saying that we should forgive Madonna if she murders someone in cold blood for no reason, because she's famous.
This is what we call favoritism. It is not a good thing. It encourages bad behavior, because if you can get away with accusing someone of owning warez and get away with it, unscathed, then you'll be more bold in future endeavors, until finally you're jibbering and shrieking at everyone and their brother throwing a tantrum and throwing random accusations of wrong doing at people who were actually supporting you.
Apollo Maximus will be missed, yes. He is a very good figure with a lot of potential. It's my hope that Anton will use this time to re-evaluate his behavior and come to his senses.
As to the 'Apologies' people keep mentioning... The only people Anton owes an apology to are JenyK, Acadia and Ernyoka for publically insulting them in an uncalled for fashion in his goodbye post, and Shahara, for dragging him through the mud, whatever Anton's intentions.
As to Clark... Clark isn't great. NO ONE has said Clark is great. No one presumed to say that Clark was any real threat to Apollo's status as an amazing figure. A percieved threat, perhaps, but not a real one. Clark is a very basic figure on the scale of Michael 1 as far as sophistication goes, but he's got some amazing textures and some good morphs out there.
Don't stop supporting Apollo. A lot of us still own him and still use him.
Anton, if you're reading this, I wish you nothing but happiness from here on out, and I hope you succeed at whatever you do (as you always have.)
Kreations By Khrys
Hawkfyr posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 5:13 PM
"To use a real world analogy, this is like saying that we should forgive Madonna if she murders someone in cold blood for no reason, because she's famous."
I knew it would happen,but I just couldn't stop myself from watching this train wreck but I can safely say that I am now stupider for having read all of this.
8 )
Tom
“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”
AlleyKatArt posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 5:16 PM
Hey! We all know she's plotting it! ;)
Kreations By Khrys
pleonastic posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 7:46 PM
I personally don't think Anton needed to go public with his accusations, but he had a RIGHT to if he wanted. as in, the right to free speech, limited only by rosity's TOS -- sure he has that. but the right to free speech still comes with responsibilities, such as when and where to say what. and then you want people to just ignore what he says? even if they disagree with his approach or his proffered evidence? solely because of his accumulated brownie points? aside from me not putting any bets on the likelihood of that happening anywhere, anytime in a public forum :), i don't think i agree with you even in principle. i mean, i am one of those who thought (and still think) anton has good reason to be suspicious of clark. but accusations of copyright violation are serious business. once you make them in public, you have attacked the other person's reputation, and probably immediately damaged it if you are famous -- your words already count for more in many people's minds. i think it's perfectly alright to say to somebody like that "you shouldn't have brought this here", even if that person has made lots of contributions. i also think that there's almost a duty to speak up against the accusation, if one believes one has contrary evidence. my sense of justice isn't happy with just letting something like that stand without careful examination. yeah, i could have done just fine without the many insults and speculation about motivations; that stuff was vile. bleh. i also wish people who haven't a clue about modelling would get one first, rolls eyes. oh well, it's all taught me something about the people who slung that kind of crap. And given the quality of Anton's work and his vast contributions to the community, we could have quietly given him his moment in court. in court, he can still have his moment; in fact that's the only place where it can happen, now that i've thought about rosity's position some more -- they are simply not equipped to make such difficult decisions when a rip isn't clearly obvious. i think they came to the same conclusion, which is why the official announcement basically says nothing.
LostinSpaceman posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 8:50 PM
Listen PappaBlue, and listen good will you. The thread I'm referring to him hijacking and the one it seems you were not reading from the beginning was started by somone other than myself. It was the one that eventually reached 750 posts after it was moved to the Copyright and Ethics forum.
The reason all you saw were the attacks and name calling aimed at Anton was this. The people tired of his attacks, that he kept editing after the fact to make them less innocusous, let their posts stand as they were written. Unlike Anton who covered his trail so that anyone joining late, like yourself, would see what looked like an all out attack on him when in fact, he was the one who started it.
It's no wonder this topic is still being fumed and fussed over when people like yourself keep coming in long after the fact and making judgemental statements based on a thread that was so full of holes from edits and deletions by the time you got to it that it did look one sided. Coming in and saying people like me should have stayed out of it as JJSemp did is even more insulting becuase it ignores that fact that I was in that thread as a customer long before Anton came in and hijacked it! And no you can't say it was hijacked because Apollo was being mentioned because he was most definately not!
billy423uk posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 9:10 PM
their is a point to be made about this free speech crap people are mentioning. ...if anton is allowed the use of it...everyones allowed the use of it. as for free speech per se...there is no such animal. if it were so, we would'nt have verbal racial abuse, libel, slander, d notices for the media, gagging orders from the court, or injunctions to stop somthing being said in print or mentioned in public...please get real people. whatever rights anton had or has, so to does everyone everywhere.
as for non modelers not having enough authority to say what they think...again ...crap. this is a forum all members here have a right to speak about and discuss any topic put forward. if not then you're saying the person who knows the most is the person everyone else should listen to. the thing that was wrong about the thread in question is that it was made personal....mainly by anton, people retaliated as people do...thats called human nature...people to a side of the fence...thats called human nature.....anton acted like a child and took his ball away. that's called imaturity. i know shit about making a model and not much more about anything else in poserdom but i'm learning. that doesn't mean i or anyone else who hasn't created a figure has no right to voice an opinion or ask a question. anton shot himself in the foot. it wasn't the fault of anyone else but him. he deserves no better treatment than anyone else doesand no worse. if anything i think it was apretty good thread......for one it cleared up a point of what is and isnt allowed. it made someone set a precedence for what the author of clark was accussed of and how he was accused. it also shows others that if you don't have substantial proof don't bring it to the table of an open forum. just for thesse two points the thread served a valid purpose. being a non modeler i'll probably get shot down for the above but unlike anton i'm capable of accepting what other people say as their personal opinon. antone has no defense for the outcome of what he did in a public forum.
he like everyone else is responsible for the outcome of his own actions.
billy
Hawkfyr posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 9:39 PM
"anton shot himself in the foot"
Actually....he shot "Clark" in the foot.
8 )~
“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”
AlleyKatArt posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 9:43 PM
Gah! No more foot puns!!!
Kreations By Khrys
Hawkfyr posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 9:45 PM
I can go "Toe-to-Toe" with the best of them y'no?
“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”
Kendra posted Sat, 06 May 2006 at 9:48 PM
Quote - comparisons are sophomoric? blink. and to think that i make them all the time when i am deciding where to put my hard-earned money.
To make your purchase decisions isn't what I said or was even refering to but rather jjsemp's comment that Clark was a "waste of hardrive space". It suggested, by comparison, that it had no place in the marketplace because it wasn't "Apollo". You actually go on to make my point with:
Quote - that said, i think the clark bashing should stop now, and people who want to play with him shouldn't be lambasted.
Neither should Shahara simply because he didn't create another Apollo.
...... Kendra
PapaBlueMarlin posted Sun, 07 May 2006 at 12:16 AM
"Listen PappaBlue, and listen good will you. "
Don't dare take that tone with me Mizrael. I'm not buying into what you're selling. I bought Clark as well. It may have been a thread started by another user, but it was a thread which would have been visited by customers who either bought Clark or were thinking about it would be able to see there was a potential infringement issue.
As far as editing his posts, no I didn't see all of his original edits. But I know that Anton is not intentionally malicious. And if he did edit anything, it was to come across as less harsh even though he was being attacked himself.
"It's no wonder this topic is still being fumed and fussed over when people like yourself keep coming in long after the fact and making judgemental statements based on a thread that was so full of holes from edits and deletions by the time you got to it that it did look one sided."
Interesting comment seeing that you have made more posts in these threads than I have.
AlleyKatArt posted Sun, 07 May 2006 at 12:44 AM
Papa, I have to pipe in here and correct, please forgive me.
He did make SEVERAL malicious comments. He made them toward Ernyoka, toward Dodger, toward myself, and toward several other people. He then DID edit these when we responded. He may not have realized how insulting his comments came out, but if you re-read the thread, you'll see MANY times people commenting on how quick Anton was to edit.
There were also posts that were outright DELETED by the mods, of Anton's, that were breaking the ToS because of personal attacks.
Kreations By Khrys
TrekkieGrrrl posted Sun, 07 May 2006 at 12:54 AM
Quote - But I know that Anton is not intentionally malicious. And if he did edit anything, it was to come across as less harsh even though he was being attacked himself.
Are we talking about the same Anton here?!
FREEBIES! | My Gallery | My Store | My FB | Tumblr |
You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.
PapaBlueMarlin posted Sun, 07 May 2006 at 1:14 AM
I'm exhausted by this topic and don't want to incite any more drama so I will be unsubscribing...
Acadia posted Sun, 07 May 2006 at 1:24 AM
I think this whole thread should be locked....better yet, deleted.
It's done. It's over. It can't be undone. So let's all just move on.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
AlleyKatArt posted Sun, 07 May 2006 at 1:28 AM
Agreed.
Kreations By Khrys
Hawkfyr posted Sun, 07 May 2006 at 1:59 AM
Maybe locking the thread will give us poor "Sole's"a chance to "Heel".
“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”
kuroyume0161 posted Sun, 07 May 2006 at 2:15 AM
Quote - The funny thing is.. The only person who in any way claimed that Clark = Apollo... is Anton. The rest of us (well more or less) were perfectly capable of acknowledging that Apollo is a character VASTLY superior to Clark, in almost any respect (the place where Clark REALLY shines is the textures IMO)
So it's not really a question of Clark being "as good as" Apollo. He's not. But he's a new toy and the Poser community loves new toys!
I really wish people would stop comparing them. It's like comparing a Trabant to a Ferrari. Both will take you somewhere, but at a highly different level.
But still there's a lot of people who actually like their Trabi's... They've become cult. Much like Clark. Not because they're better, but because they're different.
Hey ernyoka1! :)
I'm not comparing anything - just seems that others are as a possible reason for all of this hoopla. I don't get it.
Robert
C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the
foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg
off.
-- Bjarne
Stroustrup
Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone
kuroyume0161 posted Sun, 07 May 2006 at 2:18 AM
Quote - > Quote - Get over it. I'm sorry, the "I can create a human figure in an hour" ploy is B.S. (talk to Penn & Teller). Quality (static) human figures take weeks - talk to any PROFESSIONAL in the business.
Unless I missed something or you have first hand knowledge, how do you know he didn't work for months? Shahara is not Anton. Anton is no Dodger. Everyone is different in how and what they create and thankfully so. That Clark isn't as good as Apollo isn't the issue. As ernyoka said, no one said Clark was better. The point here is that if Shahara is cleared of the accusation he has every right to be in the marketplace without being compared to someone else. Diminishing someone's hard work to a comparison of another is sophomoric.
This is in response to a 'tactic' and not the Clark figure. I'm certain that Clark took some time to construct - as most figures do.
If there are no points of contention here between AM and Clark, why are they being made? It seems to me that some are making an effort to make some connection here between Anton's behavior and this new figure. Baffles the mind, actually...
C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the
foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg
off.
-- Bjarne
Stroustrup
Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone
KarenJ posted Sun, 07 May 2006 at 4:38 AM
That's enough.
"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan
Shire