Attached Link: http://www.entouragearts.com/gallery02.asp

Example of a 3D Painting done using the EPIX file format from Informatix's Piranesi software...

---

For about two years I have been trying to get E-on to support the EPIX file format- so that

Vue could do scenes like this using Piranesi. After Vue 5 Infinite was released I even got

E-on and Informatix to exchange software- and Informatix even gave E-on everything

they needed to create the EPIX file... I was told by E-on that it was "no problem" for Vue 5

to do this and that it could be done in "half a day", etc...

 

 

Attached Link: http://www.informatix.co.uk/piranesi/gallery.shtml

The Piranesi EPIX file format is supported by nearly all major 3D programs- like

3DS MAX, LW, C4D, Sketch-Up, and many other....  The link is to the Piranesi gallery

if you would like to see more axamples of what it can do...

(Click on the above pictures in this thread to see BIGGER views- for some

weird reason this new forum software doesn't display files at full size...unless

you click on them???)

After waiting a long time- and more emails later-- I have finally realized that E-on seems to be so PRE-OCCUPIED with whatever they are doing that really nothing seems to happen anymore...

Then I also realized that several years ago- maybe 4-5, when Informatix was still a relatively new and unknown company- someone had written an EPIX exporter for Ray Dream Studio!...

So- I think I will contact DAZ-Eovia and see if they will update and support the EPIX file exporter

and give me a reason to buy Carrara 5 while it is still on sale!

I think E-on is MISSING OUT on getting a lot of higher-end users of 3D Architectural design

software users to BUY Vue 5 so that they can export their stuff into Piranesi via EPIX.

...So may be DAZ-Eovia would like to gain a big CAD-Architecture user base instead!!!???

(Obviously  E-on- which doesn't seem to care anymore??? )

That is a very interesting rendering scheme.  Would I need to have that program to view the render?  Or would the plugin have a decent preview render for it?

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

Attached Link: http://www.informatix.co.uk/piranesi/product_information_features.shtml

You would need to have Piranesi to do these effects. Piranesi is not for everyone-

mainly those people who have an interest in product or architectural rendering.

However- there's GOOD MONEY to be made with Piranesi- as architectural style

renders for projects are worth thousands of dollars- and can keep someone very

busy making a very nice income on a regular basis!

You can even apply this to video and panoramas- see the MOV on the attached link.

---since Piranesi now supports MAC, as well as PC's, it has gained even a wider

audience and user base- applying the EFX to all sorts of products, illustrations and

videos.

E-on's LACK OF ATTENTION to this market- especially since they could so EASILY

support the Epix file format- makes me wonder that they have basically FALLEN
ASLEEP as a 3D software company...   Hopefully DAZ-Eovia will pick up the ball!

...heh- went ahead a DID IT! Just got Carrara 5 with Trans-Poser for $94!

After looking again at Digital Carver's Toon Pro- I decided that Toon Pro- and the much

greater likelyhood that DAZ-Eovia would develope an Epix file exporter- while

E-On continues it LONG SLEEP--- is a safer bet for my near-term production needs...

...forgot to mention that I ALSO got a $25 Voucher from DAZ as a bonus!!!

I can apply this to DAZ models- or the other Carrara items- like ToonPro that

DAZ is selling on their website.

However- the $94 deal EXPIRES TODAY!!!-- May 31-- so act NOW if you are

interested in that kind of savings/offer deal...

Veritas

Can you please NOT turn this forum into an ad for Carrara ?

Thanks

• agiel

• agiel - www.linfa.net

...well I was receiving IM's asking me where I got that $94 deal- so I posted it here- as the deal expires TODAY. So today, May 31, is the last day...

And that's why I left it up on the forum :)

I just want to make sure it doesn't degerate into something else...

• agiel - www.linfa.net

Well- my other agenda here is to kick E-on in the Butt!

I've been a Vue user since version 2, worked very hard to get the Vue Forum established

here at Renderosity many years ago, and have fed tons of useful ideas and marketing

info to E-on over the years- INCLUDING encouraging them to have a direct POSER

import feature- which they, of course, did by version 4...

But, to me, E-on has TOTALLY fallen asleep in the past 6-8 months- it seems like

NOTHING is happening with E-on anymore- despite all their nice website graphics

and hoopla.

I think their inability to EASILY create an EPIX exporter- and potentially pick up

HUNDREDS of Mac and Windows Architectural Illustration clients- who have BIG

and SERIOUS budgets (these are not HOBBY USERS)- is a huge mistake and

tells me they have really LOST FOCUS on what their user base wants.

If E-on is aiming at the HIGH-END- then why not EASILY pick up users from

the 3D CAD -Architecture/Illustration Design markets? These people spend

major bucks in landscape and architectural design renders to sell clents on

Multi-Million projects and developments! This is "kidding around" Nude Vicky

in a Temple Stuff!

I have lost some respect for E-on as a smart and responsible 3D software

company. It makes me think that something is VERY WRONG at E-on--

and maybe they are up for SALE perhaps?

I may have seen a free script for Vue 5 Infinite that adds pencil sketch style rendering on Google.  It's been mentioned on this forum as well.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

I admire your enthusiasm Veritas! Personally I think E-on is busy trying to get XStream tidied up and working on Vue 6. I for one am glad they've got their attention focused on XStream as it has been in the pipe for a long time, and am pleased that they are attempting to make good on their promise to deliver it. I came within inches of getting Carrara because you're right, it is an outstanding value. But realistically, between VueI, Lightwave 9, Poser, and all the compositing and editing apps to tie it all up it is quickly exceeding my ability to get familiar, let alone comfortable, with every new app that is appealing. I even turned my back on Hex at $2.00 because the real expense lies with the input of hours; not the withdrawl from the wallet. I hope you get your export from Carrara or maybe Vue 6, and I look forward to seeing your work. You almost sold me buddy, but there's not enough hours in the day for some of us.

Sure, X-Stream is a great product concept for the high-end market- but it does little good for the rest of the people who aren't high-end users. First- E-on has to DEVELOP Xstream- for EACH major platform, then make it WORK on each major platform, then SUPPORT IT on each major platform. It's a MAJOR bit of work to pull off from a company that hasn't had an exactly STERLING REPUTATION in making their basic bread and butter software line work efficently!

Most of us have been patient with E-on with Vue 4 and 5, including Infinite- because we assumed that they were ALWAYS working on making it better- so people always said "Give them TIME, they will FIX this and FIX that-" .. but when you learn that they are head-over-heels DEEP into the high end RACKET- it makes me worry that they are in OVER THEIR HEADS and so lost in making the high-end stuff work that everything else takes a BACK SEAT (or NO seat!)!

I mean- can E-on "Walk and Chew Gum at the same time"?  It appears to me that they CAN"T!

Plus the fact that they have been extremely SILENT for such a long time, and make update changes to Vue 5 at a GLACIAL PACE (very slowly)-- has me personally worried about their ability to accomplish necessary tasks- doing the basic software maintenance that needs to be done to keep their low-end and mid-range user base happy...

Doing an EPIX file exporter would take about one day! Keeping MAX, LIGHTWAVE, C4D and MAYA users HAPPY will take YEARS and cost a lot in programming time and resources... which is apparently what is actually happening with E-on these days...

 

Glacial pace ?

What are you talking about ?

They released Vue 5 and Vue Infinite two years ago. Xtream and Easel came out last year. They are shooting for Vue 6 this year. And they have released at least one beta update a month since last summer, with several update turned into 'final' stage.

That seems a lot faster to me than 'glacial'.

Of course, they may not have the features you are asking for, but they have their own business plan.

For example, Xtream got them to be noticed by companies like ILM - that kind of exposure alone will have positive impacts on the rest of the product line. if they repeat their previous mistakes with people like that, it will have far more reaching consequences than with simple users like us.

So don't give up yet - give them time.

• agiel - www.linfa.net

Veritas,

You have indeed been a frequent and helpful contributor to this forum. I am most appreciative of that fact. But I do have a problem with Vue spending their precious resouces on support for Piranesi, as it is VERY EXPENSIVE ($750 for only a renderer?) and mostly a niche market.

Besides, at least one of the pictures you display above is mostly just a hand-colored render of an effect you can get with the free SketchUp 3D version from Google. While I know Piranesi helps paint existing images with z-buffers, there is still significant skill required to know how/what/where to place your brush strokes, what color etc.. It doesn't only come automatically with Piransesi as you might think.

Thanks again for your  helpful posts.  -Chipp

 

Well Chipp, I'm familiar with using Piranesi, as I first bought it 4-5 years ago. It's NOT an easy program to learn to use- but once you get the hang of it- it's very powerful. It's amazing to me that for such a relatively expensive program, and somewhat difficult learning curve, that it has caught on so well and now has a MAC version as well. If people could be doing this with simple scripts or photoshop filters they wouldn't be buying it! ...Piranesi is very popular within the architectural design and product design arenas and a proficient Piranesi artist working with a regular client can easily make $3-5000 a month using it. This is because every Piranesi image is completely changable- backwards or forwards- and can be used in animations, panoramas, etc. It's a great marketing design tool...

As far as Vue 6- I think DAZ-Eovia is going to steadily eat away E-on's low (Easel) and mid-range market. I suppose E-on's marketing plan is to escape to the HIGH-END and hang out with ILM staffers in San Francisco- well big deal- that doesn't do any good for most of us who bought into the original Vue software. I have 3DS MAX and Lightwave (not the latest versions) and got into Vue because it was an easy to use program- I did NOT want to be using MAX or Lightwave- which is what XStream is all about... so where's the BENEFIT to the mid-range Vue user who doesn't want, or can't afford multi-thousand dollar software???

With Vue 5 Infinite there seemed to be the "promise" from email discussions I was having with E-on that they would be greatly expanding upon Cel-Shade-Toon effects (they didn't), expanding upon Python (it's THERE- but almost nothing makes any productive use of it- where are the highly useful PYTHON scripts like Poser has?). I was told that supporting an EPIX file output was something that could be done in half a day (or "just write a python script to do it" someone at E-on said. YAH, Right... I bought V5I because I'm a programmer???

No, I haven't decided to remove Vue from my harddrive, like some people have stated. There is a lot I still like about using Vue- but I think E-on really cares very little about what their low and mid-range user base really want.  They have become the most UNFRIENDLY software company I can ever think of- and I've dealt with a lot over 20 years. E-on is a small company- but with the warmth and friendlyness of Microsoft. ----You WILL LIKE what we will be SELLING YOU in Vue 6- so SIT DOWN and SHUT-UP...

 

 

 

I think Veritas777 has a perfectly valid point. Vue 5i costs $599. That may not be up in the price bracket of Maya or Max, but it's a damn sight more than Poser or Bryce. And for that one gets an application that can be guaranteed to crash on heavy scenes just from moving the camera around; a Poser import that's broken because of the stupid way the progam handles material zones; a vegetation editor that's laughably primitive; and no more added content than came with Vue 4.

If e-on think that people will wait for Vue 6 to fix everything, they may very well find that a lot of their customers are jumping ship for Carrara. At that price point, I expect professional quality software.

Thus the future of the Vue community is at issue here.

I'm not waiting on E-On to fix anything anymore. All they ever do is force you to buy the newest version to get the bugs of the older version fixed. I've been using Vue from version 2 through 5, but I've jumped ship by now. With Vue 6 on the horizon, I'm afraid I'm going to be stuck with a buggy Vue 5 in the end. It happened with Vue 4, the only reason I did get Vue 5 because in Vue 5 they fixed some of the annoying Vue 4 bugs. The never fixed them in Vue 4, while they should have. I sat down and looked at E-On's behaviour..... Fix bugs in the next version, thus forcing me to buy the next version, overcharge me, add non exsistant tax to my orders and refusing to implementing some very usefull features requested for a long time. Then I looked at Vue..... constant crashes and tremendous slowness with larger scenes, no good communication with Poser, bad modeling capacity and same old materials and trees for years. Made me wonder why I still really used Vue and why I'm still doing business with E-On and fall for their sale tactics each time. So I said no more, I'm tired of it. I can live without Vue. Sat on the fence for a while, noticed that bugs didn't get fixed really and now E-On has announced Vue 6 and I know what will be happening next.... Vue 5 will remain buggy forever, so time to uninstall it and choose something else. You can guess what I choose.... Carrara, all I'm going to say that it's a huge relieve and joy to use it instead of Vue.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

I've already gotten emails from Charles at Eovia and Brian at Informatix- to exchange SDK info

for developing an EPIX exporter for Carrara 5...

I hope someone will take the message to e-on that they just got a hole below the water line.

Attached Link: http://www.eovia.com/products/carrara_addons/vectorstyle.asp

Well- I'm extremely happy with having purchased Carrara 5!    C5 renders fast and is very strong in the area that I have most wanted- or needed- which is Non-PhotoReal Rendering. This is something I have been trying to get E-on to add for YEARS- as it is not only a very nice artistic feature- but also very useful for making MONEY- doing architectural, scientific, medical or mechanical illustrations!

E-on added some ability to "create" some cel shade effects in V5I- but simply left it at the "ability" to "potentially" create these effects. In Carrara 5 there is a very artistic and useful built-in NPR renderer- I was playing with it last night and really amazed at the artistic, toon and illustration effects I was getting! Plus it is fairly easy to animate things in Carrara 5- which is useful for professional work and also website graphics...

Another HUGE weakness that Vue has, because of E-on's extremely paranoid view of the world, is a lack of PLUG-IN'S. Digital Carver's Guild, and other 3rd Party groups, create some really GREAT plug-ins for Carrara! I am especially interested in Toon! Pro- only $39.95- and definately interested in VectorStyle 2!   VectorStyle 2 has some amazing features that in high-end programs like MAX and Lightwave cost many hundreds of dollars...

While Vue 5 still has great plants and the ecosystem feature- I am finding out already that buying Carrara 5 is a fantastic investment for creating money-making graphic and illustration style effects.

The net effect of E-on's turning away from the wants and needs of it's original user base, and focussing on being a PLUG-IN for High-End software is that a lot of people, especially when they discover Carrara 5, and all the great deals that DAZ keeps offering- is a splintering and erosion of the Vue user base. High-enders will hang out in their MAX, Lightwave, C4 groups- because THAT is their PRIMARY software- not the Vue forums. E-on's attitude in the past year or so, as they have been developing XStream- is that they seem to care VERY LITTLE for what their ORIGINAL user base wants. It seems to be now all XSTREAM, all the time, for E-on. And whatever they throw into a future version of Vue 6- will be just that- thrown in- with another new set of V6 bugs!

I'm not going to be in a big rush to buy the next version of Vue- as E-on's "business plan" is becoming increasingly clear- the low and mid-range user base is the "tail-end"- something they are leaving behind them as they concentrate of being a high-end plug-in. I personally will be spending more time with Carrara getting stuff made that I can make money with on a daily basis. And the cost for these great C5 plug-ins are very affordable, in a program that is pretty easy to learn and use...

Are we going to have to go through another round of Carrara vs Vue arguments ? To be fair, I can also point out that : - carrara doesn't have a live preview of the scene (and its openGL preview is still far behind Vue's) - carrara's interface becomes sluggish as your scene becomes more complex. Even with it's crashes, I have managed to work on much larger scenes in Vue than in Carrara. - Vue's ecosystems are way more powerful than Carrara's replicators My point being, you can always find examples of how any software shines compared to another. And please, leave your own interpretation of e-on software's 'business plan' out of the picture. Unless you have a valid source of information from inside e-on, this is pure speculation. Oh... I forgot.. I've had Carrara since version 2.0 in parallel to Vue. Like any software company out there, Eovia also waits for new versions to fix bugs from older versions. Go look at their Bug List and reporting system to have a good example of how old bugs can get and how / why they are selected or discarded.

• agiel - www.linfa.net

carrara's interface becomes sluggish as your scene becomes more complex. Even with it's crashes, I have managed to work on much larger scenes in Vue than in Carrara.

 

Agiel, I completely disagree with you here, I've encoutered the complete opposite. Vue 5 Pro completely stops responding on my system with large and complex scenes. Vue is very very slow with complex scenes on my system. I've also tried the Vue Infinite and that almost made me cry, it wasn't fun using it with complex scenes at all. I have yet to encounter a slower application then Vue.

Carrara 5 on the other hand is lightning fast, very stable and still responds well even with larger and complex scenes.

It even gets worse when importing complex models. Carrara has no problem handling complex models. Vue often crashes when importing complex  models and if you're able to import them Vue is no fun to work with anymore.

Vue's ecosystems are way more powerful than Carrara's replicators

Thats true, but at least I don't have to have to pay over 600 euros to get an ecosystem. It only cost me 100 euros and it gave me an application that comes very close to Vue Infinite and in many ways surpasses Vue Infinite.

Carrara 5 standard beats Vue 5 Studio Pro easily and yet it's full price isn't even half of it. Carrara has it's own ecosystem and even though it isn't as powerfull as Vue Infinite's, it;s still good and it's affordable.

I've been considering Vue Infinite a long time, but with my current Vue 5 Studio Pro experience and Vue Infinite's price, the consideration is no more. Vue Infinite features doesn't justify it's price anymore, while it's ecosystem is powerfull, Vue is lacking big time in other areas.

With Carrara coming to DAZ the whole game has changed now, especially for European users. DAZ pricing is in US dollars not in Euros, big advantage. E-On still charges me in euros and still uses the 1=1 conversion rate.

DAZ doesn't charge me taxes for downloads and according the laws of my country download applications are tax free. E-On on the other hand does charge me taxes for download applications at a rate that is even 2% above the highest rate in my country. On top of that I pay custom charges for the download. I do pay all of this E-On, while the law in my country states that there's no tax and custom charges for download products, regardless in which country the application was purchased.

The choice is becoming very easy this way.......

Carrara 5 ST cost me (if I had to pay the full price) 185 euros. Vue 5 Esprit cost me 185 euros also, but it's not as good as Carrara 5 ST. Vue 5 Studio Pro, more close to C5ST will cost me 415 euros, but still leaves me wanting for a lot of features.

So easy choice..... Carrara 5 ST and I've even got a semi-ecosystem.

Now in my case I'm considering Vue Infinite. Price 625 euro. On the other hand there's Carrara 5 Pro. Price 400 euros. Very comparable in features. While V5Inf has a fine ecosystem, it lack all the other stuff it should have at it's price. Vue5Inf has terrible modeling capacities, no particle system and animation leaves you wanting.

C5Pro on the other hand still has a good ecosystem, excellent modeling capacities, great particle system and good animation capacities.

Again the choice is Carrara, I'm getting more for my money. Vue's ecosystem alone isn't going to cut it. For Vue Infinite's price I would expect a lot more.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Attached Link: http://www.eovia.com/products/carrara5/carrara_new_features.asp

Agiel- I know you've been a long-time Carrara user. You certainly have your own point of "view"...

But you said in an above post "Of course, they may not have the features you are asking for, but they have their own business plan."

So- how come you then said "And please, leave your own interpretation of e-on software's 'business plan' out of the picture. Unless you have a valid source of information from inside e-on, this is pure speculation."

...So only YOU can comment on their business plan? Or maybe you KNOW their business plan- but none of US know- or you have your "inside" info???

Actually their "business plan" seems pretty obvious now- they are leaving us in the low and mid range behind- I think. What will show up in Vue 6 will be whatever they think will be enough of a gimmick or two to make us upgrade again. With LOTS of new bugs for version 7 to fix...

I invite anyone to check out the NEW features added to Carrara 5! The list is HUGE and very impressive! Note how many that VUE 5 does NOT have- but that Vue users have been BEGGING for- for YEARS!

The entire STYLE of Eovia is NIGHT and DAY compared to E-on! Eovia appears by all accounts to be an open, approachable company- very interested in what their user base wants- and appears to make every attempt to add new features that they can- as people request them (within REASON of course- they won't add EVERYTHING). E-on on the other hand is like dealing with the old Soviet Union! Very secretive, paranoid, unfriendly to 3rd party plug-in developers, very SLOW to fix bugs, and often, it seems, making things WORSE (the Cornucopia Store FIASCO went on for 4-5 months I think- anyone with any sense of PR (Public Relations) would have done back-flips to get it fixed in DAYS, if not a few WEEKS...  But this is the STYLE at E-on.. "Let Them Eat Cake... those Stupid PEASANTS...!!!

 

I agree with the awesome value that the Carrara bundle represents; as I said earlier I almost bit on it. Different strokes and all that. I felt the same about the Vue5I/Lightwave 8.5/9.0 bundle for $795, and could easily make the same argument over Lightwave as a package vs. Carrara, but the point is moot. As a LW user since 6.0 I was stunned that not everyone in the graphic universe didn't jump on the deal (ends tomorrow I believe BTW) I have to accept that it'snot everyone's cup of tea. Many seem to be shifting to Carrara, and Vue will be forced to respond if they are to survive. You've done your part in encouraging E-On to evolve and voted with your dollars. It's all you can do bud... Enjoy your package, it is undoubtably a very good one. Although the Lightwave/Vue deal is bette.... oh, never mind :)

Veritas I did not comment on e-on's business plan either way. I just said they have their own plan - which I don't know. This thread is turning into what I wanted to prevent in earlier posts - an ad for Carrara that is going out of proportion. Time to end this thread. If you want to bring up the subject again, I would advise you to stick to a comparison of features between the two softs and not to what e-on may or may not think of the users.

• agiel - www.linfa.net