Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL


Subject: Ram limitations in Poser?

marvlin opened this issue on Jun 18, 2006 · 76 posts


marvlin posted Sun, 18 June 2006 at 6:26 PM

Hi I am just curious as to why poser doesn't seem able to utilize more than about 1.6 gig when rendering.

I have 4 gig yet around the point specified above it says out of memory.

What is the limiting factor?

 

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


xantor posted Sun, 18 June 2006 at 6:38 PM

The limiting factor is that poser 4 was written to use 2 gigs of ram and poser 6 is poser 4 and 5 with some code added in.

They should seriously think about fixing it for poser 7.


marvlin posted Sun, 18 June 2006 at 6:48 PM

Ah, I see, so Poser 6 wasn't a new build.

The thing that I don't understand is, why?

What made them decide on a 2 Gig limit in the first place.

Why limit it to 2 Gig when it is obviously a RAM heavy application?

These people are not idiots, there must have been a hardware or software issue, if so, I would be interested to know what it was.

In both cases I would have thought advances in hardware (eg 64 bit) and software would lend itself to giving us a bit more RAM to play with.

Why not make a patch that just alters the settings or the rendering part of the application to utlilize all available RAM.

 

 

 

 

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


Miss Nancy posted Sun, 18 June 2006 at 6:56 PM

1.5 GB limit AFAIK.



marvlin posted Sun, 18 June 2006 at 7:14 PM

Yeh, seems to be in my experience.

I think I may contact the software developers and ask them why, becuase I can't think of any reason why this can't be changed.

I am not a software developer, but I imagine the application itself will run independantly of the RAM, in that it will go about it's business, using up RAM untill there is none left.

I do not see why if there is RAM available it suddenly can't use it.

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


xantor posted Sun, 18 June 2006 at 7:21 PM

There is a two gigabyte limit because it used to be that PCs couldn`t access more than two gigabytes of ram at one time.


marvlin posted Sun, 18 June 2006 at 8:17 PM

LOL, I guessed that, but what is stopping them simply creating a patch that allows Poser to use more RAM?

After all RAM is just a resource, I can't imagine it is actuall a part of the program.

It is just the means that the program uses to get to an end.

So, what is stopping them raising the limit?  :o)

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


xantor posted Sun, 18 June 2006 at 8:48 PM

They could make a new poser 6 service release with the memory limit fixed.


ynsaen posted Sun, 18 June 2006 at 9:48 PM

The issue isn't something with poser, its something with the operating system.

Windows XP/2000, which are the req for the current version of poser (PC) limit a program by default to 2 gigs of ram at maximum. Poser itself uses roughly 400 to 600 depending on other variables.

Poser could be written to use greater ram, but would still be limited to that limitation as a whole.

They could, of course, create a 64 bit version, which would be useless for the greater number of their users.  Or, they could wait and see what sort of restrictions come with Vista when it ships.

In the interim, note that poser is not a patient beast, and will not wait for windows to handle VM on its own -- it needs the space readily availbe, so be sure your swap file is of reasonable size.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)


xantor posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 12:40 AM

I thought that you could use more than 2 gigs ram with windows xp?


ynsaen posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 12:56 AM

You can -- but no program within xp can access more than 2 gb of ram space.

XP will not release more than 2gb of ram to any program, more specifically, and, even more, lol, it can allow up to 3GB if the program is capable of using a specific switch and that switch is manually set up within windows.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)


jfbeute posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 12:58 AM

You can use more than 2 Gb but any one program can use only 2 Gb maximum. With XP you run Poser, the OS and all kinds of drivers at the same time so you might get a bit of performance gain by having some extra RAM.

In reality 2 to 3 Gb is sufficient at this moment for using Poser on XP. With a dual core processor and some other programs (Carrara) you may get proper use out of additional memory.

The best machine today for Poser would be dual core processor with 2 to 3 Gb, for programs using the additional core it would be dual core processor with 4 Gb (which about the maximum current motherboards can handle).

All this changes when a true 64 bit OS and applications appear.


marvlin posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 6:24 AM

I am running a 64 bit motherboard with 4x 1 gig sticks of DDR RAM.

My operating system is XP Proffessional 64 bit.

This is why I was asking the question. It occurred to me that if the limitation was purely down to the original hardware being 32 bit, then surely Curious Labs should be able to offer a patch to alter the way that Poser accesses RAM to enable the extra resources.

TBH, I would be prepared to pay a small sum of money for the above, so I can cut down on the amount of layering I have to do on heavily populated images.

 

 

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


stewer posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 6:51 AM

Attached Link: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/memory/base/memory_limits_for_windows_releases.asp

Even 64bit Windows versions impose the 2GB limit on regular 32bit applications.

marvlin posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 7:54 AM

So couldn't creative labs create a patch that makes poser flick the switch in windows to enable that other 1 gig of RAM as mentioned earlier in the thread?

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


manoloz posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 8:11 AM

That would be nice indeed. I am curious, what exactly are you rendering that needs so much memory? Couldn't you just render in layers as a workaround until we have a 64bit version of Poser? It could happen, e-frontier made a 64bit version of Shade. But that is just guessing...

still hooked to real life and enjoying the siesta!
Visit my blog! :D
Visit my portfolio! :D


stewer posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 8:14 AM

It's not just flicking a switch. While setting the /LARGEADDRESSAWARE flag when linking Poser would make Windows assign more memory to Poser, that doesn't guarantee a fully working program. Every part of the application would need to be prepared to deal with the higher address allocations, including the parts that are out of e frontier's control (for example, Apple's Quicktime SDK or the Size8 cloth simulation). Here's a series of blog entries on MSDN that hopefully explain a few of the issues involved: http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2004/08/06/209840.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2004/08/12/213468.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2004/08/16/215089.aspx However, if you are brave and daring, feel free to use Microsoft's editbin.exe and set the /LARGEADDRESSAWARE flag for a copy of your Poser.exe. (Don't forget to set the /3GB switch in boot.ini as well). That will have the same effect as if e frontier had set the flag at linker time. If you're lucky, everything may run just fine and use more memory. However, it may just as well crash and burn.


marvlin posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 8:23 AM

I make and sell erotic action stories. I try to make my images as realsitic as possible, where all the characters are normal looking people not porn queens etc.

I also put great effort into the enviroments my stories take place in. Using the most realsitic textures I can etc.

I have and do regularly build my images up in layers and have no problem in doing so, but it would be far simpler and allow me to more heavily populate my scenes for the same amount of time if I could have more figures per render.

Just for the record, I don't mind waiting and I am more than happy with poser6 as is. However I was just curious as to why we had this limit and wondered whether anyone had approached curious labs to suggest this modification to what, I imagine is a small part of the program, whether in poser or windows.

If we're all honest and had to vote on it, I think most of us would be chuffed to bits if the patch was made. If nothing else it would increase productivity and for those of us that do this proffesionally, time is money :oD

 

 

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


marvlin posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 8:25 AM

Sorry stewer you posted whilst I was typing :op

Bear in mind I hadn't seen your post when I posted mine :o)

Having read your post, it would seem it is not that simple for a lamen like myself, but surely for a proffessional software programmer it wouldn't be that difficult and if they charged a small fee then I am sure the time spent would be easily re-couped.

Indeed I would argue that the software would become more attractive to potential customers.

 

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


manoloz posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 8:42 AM

I second that. And making Poser multithreaded while they are at it would be just awesome. Those two things can potentially, IMO, make Poser more attractive to mid and high-end users. As it is, it works great, but there is always room for improvement.

This are the features that maybe average users would not immediately appreciate, but which can make or break your day in professional work. And anyway, 64bit and multi-head processors are the way of the future, so the earlier they embrace them, the better.

Just imagine a multithreaded-64bit Poser7 on one of those boxx apex8 dream machines... sigh...

still hooked to real life and enjoying the siesta!
Visit my blog! :D
Visit my portfolio! :D


Darboshanski posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 8:54 AM

Poser 7? Hell I haven't even begun to understand 6 fully and already the cries are out for 7. What's the use of purchasing more memory and stuffing it in your machine if poser is only using a wee amount of it? I didn't buy P5 because of all the crap and now it seems that 6 has crap too. Is there any version of poser people will be happy with? Damn all I want to do is set up scenes and render it's that simple. So why can't they create a version of poser that is simple to use and easy on the resources instead of packing the program full of shite? What e-frontiers is now microsoft?

Hehehe....rant over

Micheál

My Facebook Page


manoloz posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 9:02 AM

Having more memory in your operating system than what a specific program can use is still very useful. The operating system itself needs lots of memory for doing it's internal things. And you can always browse the internet while that slooooooow render is at work. It makes you more productive on the whole. I know I do, I usually have Gimp, Poser, Firefox, and sometimes even Shade and progecad (autocad clone) open at the same time, switching from one to another. On a multi-monitor setup.

This would be bad for your health to try if you had, say, 256mb of ram.

I never owned P5, but I do own P6, and I have never regretted my decision. If your renders are not that complicated, you could try and switch from firefly to poser4 render engine, it works much faster.

BTW, I think I will never stop learning Poser. Each time I think I have finally got the grip of things, somebody posts a new way of doing things that returns me to the learning phase!

still hooked to real life and enjoying the siesta!
Visit my blog! :D
Visit my portfolio! :D


Darboshanski posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 9:04 AM

Quote - Just imagine a multithreaded-64bit Poser7 on one of those boxx apex8 dream machines... sigh...

Yup, sounds almost as expensive as my 1695 Austrian Olmutz Thaler (coin). A wee bit too much for a machine to run poser on

Oh no I never stop learning about poser. Just wish it was just more somple sometimes.

Micheál

My Facebook Page


manoloz posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 9:09 AM

Quote -

Yup, sounds almost as expensive as my 1695 Austrian Olmutz Thaler (coin). A wee bit too much for a machine to run poser on

Micheál

Last time I checked on their website, US$25000 to US$50000. That is more than what my car is worth!

Ah, but I can dream... 🤤

still hooked to real life and enjoying the siesta!
Visit my blog! :D
Visit my portfolio! :D


Darboshanski posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 9:28 AM

Quote - > Quote -

Yup, sounds almost as expensive as my 1695 Austrian Olmutz Thaler (coin). A wee bit too much for a machine to run poser on

Micheál

Last time I checked on their website, US$25000 to US$50000. That is more than what my car is worth!

Ah, but I can dream... 🤤

Dreaming is what gives us hope and we hope one day our dreams will come true. It seems that technology is expensive when it's first released but beomes affordable very quickly. I mean who would have dreamed they would have a PC in their home not too long ago. Now it's as common as owning a TV. In time maybe this system will not be so costly.
Only thing is that the rate technology moves something new will come out and we are back not being able to afford that.....just can't seem to get a break...LOL!!!

Micheál

My Facebook Page


manoloz posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 9:32 AM

btw, how expensive can a coin be? I am pretty sure they can be quite expensive, but just how much? So I know if I buy a new car, a new computer or a coin :lol:

still hooked to real life and enjoying the siesta!
Visit my blog! :D
Visit my portfolio! :D


stewer posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 10:06 AM

> Quote - However, if you are brave and daring, feel free to use Microsoft's editbin.exe and set the /LARGEADDRESSAWARE flag for a copy of your Poser.exe. (Don't forget to set the /3GB switch in boot.ini as well). That will have the same effect as if e frontier had set the flag at linker time. If you're lucky, everything may run just fine and use more memory. However, it may just as well crash and burn.

What? Am I the first one to every try this out? Proving my own prediction wrong, this hack freaking works! Poser 6 is using 2.7GB of memory on my computer right now.


Darboshanski posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 10:25 AM

Quote - btw, how expensive can a coin be? I am pretty sure they can be quite expensive, but just how much? So I know if I buy a new car, a new computer or a coin :lol:

It really depends on the coins rarity. Take for example the Eliasberg  (Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr. the only one to own a complete collection of U.S coins) 1913 Liberty Nickel with a grade of Proof 66, which is one of the finest known of only five ever produced and four of these are accounted for, sold for $4.15 million dollars.

U.S. coins at the moment seem to carry the higher values. However, world and ancient coins are making a climb as well. That is because for so long world and ancient coin collecting, here in the states, was not popular. I like world and ancient coins over U.S. because of they carry far more history and tend to be more artistic in design. It’s really cool to hold an early Roman coin for if it could speak think of the tales it could tell.

Micheál

 

 

My Facebook Page


marvlin posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 12:31 PM

Quote - > Quote - However, if you are brave and daring, feel free to use Microsoft's editbin.exe and set the /LARGEADDRESSAWARE flag for a copy of your Poser.exe. (Don't forget to set the /3GB switch in boot.ini as well). That will have the same effect as if e frontier had set the flag at linker time. If you're lucky, everything may run just fine and use more memory. However, it may just as well crash and burn.

What? Am I the first one to every try this out? Proving my own prediction wrong, this hack freaking works! Poser 6 is using 2.7GB of memory on my computer right now.

Coool, are you running 64 bit or 32

 

What I really want to know is, will it work on 64 bit as the relevant data shown on the link only seems to refer to 32

 

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


stewer posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 12:38 PM

I can't tell if it works on 64bit Windows, as I don't own a 64bit computer (yet). Feel free to try it out, from what I gather, it should be even safer and easier to try, as you would then only have to change the flag in the Poser executable and notthing in XP's boot flags. In fact, you wouldn't even need to reboot, you would just need to call editbin /LARGEADDRESSAWARE C:pathtoposerPoser.exe (AFTER you made a backup copy of Poser.exe). editbin.exe comes with Visual Studio, if you don't own it, Visual C++ Express Edition is a free download from Microsoft.


Khai posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 12:43 PM

bookmarking!
Stewer, can you throw everything you can at poser and see what happens?

this could be wonderful....


stewer posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 1:48 PM

This is the one you want to bookmark: http://www.stewreo.de/poser/3gb.html I put it on my web site so it won't get lost when the thread gets old. So far, my tests showed that this version now does indeed handle bigger scenes - the screenshot I posted showing it using 2.7GB RAM were taken during rendering a scene that the unpatched version didn't handle. But I'm not running it long enough yet to say anything valid about stability/reliability of that hack.


marvlin posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 2:38 PM

Well.....I've had a look at what I think is supposed to be the explanation onhow to do this and well....

It doesn't make any sense LOL.

I have never done any work in Visual C++ I imagine if i had I would find it simple but I haven't :o)

So unless someone can make a step by step tutorial on how to do this, I don't think it is going to happen.

Of course, whoever did make the tutorial would I imagine be very popular and be fighting of girls with a dirty stick :op

 

 

 

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


marvlin posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 2:46 PM

Oh, you posted whilst I was typing. That tutorial on your site is just the job, thank mate you da man :o)

I'll do it on my machine and see how it works on 64 bit.

 

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


stewer posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 3:13 PM

Let us know if this works for you! If you're running 64bit Windows, all you should need to do is running the editbin commmand, the modification to boot.ini is not necessary then - so you're not risking your system stability. If it does work, fork over the cash, I have it black on white:

Quote - TBH, I would be prepared to pay a small sum of money for the above, so I can cut down on the amount of layering I have to do on heavily populated images.

:woot:


stewer posted Mon, 19 June 2006 at 3:38 PM

I put an update on the web site with what I think should be the instructions for XP 64bit. I can't test them myself as I don't have 64bit hardware (donations welcome).


marvlin posted Fri, 23 June 2006 at 2:17 PM

Hi stewer, I just tried your 64 bit tutorial and it came back with an error.

 

What I did.

Downloaded the visual c++ 2005 express edition

Opened the command prompt

copied and pasted the edit bin text into it

C:Pogram FilesCurious LabsPoser 6Poser.exe (altered the folder because mine doesn't say Efrontier)

I have tried it with "efrontier" also.

However I get this message:

EDITBIN: fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file 'C:program filese frontierposer 6poser.exe

Now my poser is on a slave drive. it is sitting in it's own partition called the c drive.

My Operating system is running on the F drive (don't ask :o/)

Tha actual path to the poser.exe is this:

C:Pogram FilesCurious LabsPoser 6Poser.exe

Any ideas, or have I just confused the hell out of you :op

 

 

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


stewer posted Fri, 23 June 2006 at 3:45 PM

I would guess that you forgot the quotation marks around the path. The command line needs that to recognize the path as one thing and not a series of separate words. The easiest way is to not type the path but simply drag and drop the Poser.exe file from the Explorer on the command line window.


marvlin posted Fri, 23 June 2006 at 4:28 PM

Yeh, you were right, but now it says "filename, path or syntax error" LOL.

If you have any other suggestions, I am listening but otherwise, us 64 bitters will have to wait I suppose.

I might contact the developers see what they think.

 

 

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


stewer posted Fri, 23 June 2006 at 4:37 PM

Did you open a Visual Studio 2005 command line? The regular Windows command line doesn't know where to find editbin.exe.


marvlin posted Fri, 23 June 2006 at 5:06 PM

I've enclosed a piccy :o)

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


stewer posted Fri, 23 June 2006 at 5:15 PM

Don't put quotation marks before editbin.


marvlin posted Fri, 23 June 2006 at 5:50 PM

That did it Stewer :oD

I have just half rendered an image with fifteen fully clothed millenium figures in it and as you can see from the pic enclosed it topped out at 3 gig (actually went up to 3.2 but was too slow with the capture) and continued to render.

I didn't wait for it to finish, but this is going to speed things up for me no end.

You are the man my friend ;o)

Marv

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


Rubbermatt posted Wed, 12 July 2006 at 5:08 PM

It would appear that in the free version of Visual Studio, Editbin is a crippled, or feature reduced version


nruddock posted Wed, 12 July 2006 at 6:02 PM

Quote - It would appear that in the free version of Visual Studio, Editbin is a crippled, or feature reduced version

Are you getting an error message ?
What do you see if you use :-

editbin /?

Rubbermatt posted Wed, 12 July 2006 at 6:07 PM

LARGEADDRESSAWARE[:NO]

About a third of the listed options have [:NO] after them


nruddock posted Wed, 12 July 2006 at 6:51 PM

Quote - LARGEADDRESSAWARE[:NO]

About a third of the listed options have [:NO] after them

The square brackets are used to indicate an optional part of the argument, in this case it means that adding ":NO" after "/LARGEADDRESSAWARE" will turn the flag off.


Rubbermatt posted Wed, 12 July 2006 at 7:06 PM

Okay I have no idea what I did different this time but it worked

Oh the joys of having a 64 bit OS when all the software & hardware vendors have their heads firmly stuck where the sun shineth not, the 32 bit land of obsolescence


xantor posted Wed, 12 July 2006 at 8:08 PM

Does the hack affect any other programs in any way (Good or bad) ?


ugpsobta posted Thu, 13 July 2006 at 7:27 AM

this all sounds amazing, i have an amd dual core processor, any ideas on how that might

affect this hack ?


nruddock posted Thu, 13 July 2006 at 11:55 AM

AFAIK a dual processor has no affect.


marvlin posted Thu, 13 July 2006 at 1:03 PM

Quote - this all sounds amazing, i have an amd dual core processor, any ideas on how that might

affect this hack ?

I have an amd dual core and it works fine with this hack.

This hack has made life so much easier. I am able to render the scenes I want to render without messing about now and not being restricting my memory limitations.

It rocks!

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


pakled posted Thu, 13 July 2006 at 9:29 PM

If I could remember better, the gig limit has something to do with available addresses, but that's changed radically over time (I remember the DOS 640k limit..;) so what I learned all those decades ago is probably incorrect..;)
    the thing is is that they're going to write Poser for the environment that most users are running. I'm sure some smart cookie at the Poser shop (hint hint), is working on a 'premium' version that could 'address' the memory issue..;)
    You do realize, that once they had a 64-bit version of Poser, someone at one of those '3d' places ('nuff said), will come out with a 64-bit character commonly found in temples, that wouldn't run in 32-bit..;) imagine the poly-counts..;)

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)


Robo2010 posted Fri, 14 July 2006 at 12:54 AM

And I always thought, more ram the better.


kawecki posted Fri, 14 July 2006 at 12:57 AM

Poser 6 is a 32 bit software, when a software needs memory it request the operating system and the OS returns a pointer to the location of the memory, this pointer is a 32 bit pointer. I doesn't matter if  your hardware is 128 bits or your OS is 512 bits, your 32 bit software only understand 32 bit pointers.
A 32 bit pointer gives a memory limit of 4Gig and this is the maximum value for physical or virtual memory that your application can handle.
Windows reduces by  half this maximum, who knows why,  resulting a total of 2Gig (physical + virtual), there is also a part of memory that is used by the software for the graphic interface and windows, so the maximum memory for rendering is even more reduced.
The only way to have more memory for Poser is to rewrite the whole Poser in 64 bits using 64 bits pointers, compile it with a 64 bits compiler and of course have a 64 bit hardware and OS.
Poser will need to have two versions, a 64 bit and a normal 32 bit. A 64 bit version is unable to work with 32 bits machines.

Stupidity also evolves!


Khai posted Fri, 14 July 2006 at 8:29 AM

Attached Link: Memory Support and Windows Operating Systems

Kaweki you are forgetting the LargeaddressAware mode of Server 2003 and XP Pro that allows an application to access 3GB instead of 2GB.

agreed that to give Poser more than 3GB you need to rewrite Poser to be a 64Bit application. but this hack makes Poser a LAA app and therefore able to run 3GB ram if the OS has this mode on.

see link for details on this mode and operation.


kawecki posted Fri, 14 July 2006 at 8:56 AM

2GB is not a limit of 32 bit software, is a limit of Windows, if you change Windows, 32 bit applications are able to handle up to the real limit of 4GB (physical + virtual) memory.
The other big problem is how the application handle the memory, if the memory get too much fragmented, the available memory can become very much lower, you have memory but no enough contiguous memory space to fit the requested block.

Stupidity also evolves!


Khai posted Fri, 14 July 2006 at 9:32 AM

except thats not what we are talking about..
I'm not sure why you are talking about that.. it's actually something again from the subject of Hacking Poser to run in 3GB. May I suggest you start a new thread on this which can be concerned with the internal workings of Windows and Memory Addressing..?


semidieu posted Fri, 14 July 2006 at 4:15 PM

I'm on a 64bit machine. I made the trick and... I know the "LARGEADRESSAWARE" works (i checked it), but i can't render...

I saw marvlin made a render with fifteen clothed millenium figures... The one i tried is 9 millenium figures, the VAP vehicule (by Sanctum Art) and the 30 first blocks from Dystopia. All together, without rendering, is a heavy scene (1,4 GB RAM use before rendering). I start rendering... but it never goes over 1,8 GB of RAM...

For testing purpose, can someone show me a pic that need 2.5 GB of RAM ? What are the render settings, the lights, etc...

Also, is the WOW64 (the 32bit emulator) limited in the amount of RAM it can give ?


marvlin posted Sat, 15 July 2006 at 10:01 AM

Semidieu, in response to your request I have spent about 2 hours or so messing about with various settings on the 15 figure issue.

I have concluded that on my machine with 15 figures the best I could achieve was the pic shown above.

This was rendered at 800 x 600 with 288 pixels per inch.

I used a single point light and 1 diffused IBL light.  I could not render with raytracing on.

When I did try, my RAM usage went up to 3.8 GIG but then poser just seemed to hang without rendering and the CPU pulsed between 15% and 0% over and over again for about 45 minutes at which point I cancelled.

In my next post you can see the settings I used.

Hope this helps

Marv

PS, I am running XP Pro 64 bit.

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


marvlin posted Sat, 15 July 2006 at 10:03 AM

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


marvlin posted Sat, 15 July 2006 at 10:11 AM

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


marvlin posted Sat, 15 July 2006 at 11:36 AM

Attached Link: 9 millenium figure render

I obviously haven't got a life becuase I am still messing about with this.

I was interested to know how 9 figures would render so after a little adjustment I ended up with the settings shown above and the image shown in my gallery (see link at top of post).

Task manager showed 3.2gig before the render started.

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


semidieu posted Sat, 15 July 2006 at 11:43 AM

Thanks ! I'll make a try.

I don't understand why i can't go over 1.8 GB of RAM. I also have Win XP Pro 64 bit. MAy i ask how many physical memory you have ?


marvlin posted Sat, 15 July 2006 at 12:08 PM

Quote - Thanks ! I'll make a try.

I don't understand why i can't go over 1.8 GB of RAM. I also have Win XP Pro 64 bit. MAy i ask how many physical memory you have ?

I have 4GIG

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


semidieu posted Sat, 15 July 2006 at 12:52 PM

I'm not an expert... but is it possible it's not working because i have only 2GB of RAM ? In theory, Windows should use the Virtual Memory....


semidieu posted Sat, 15 July 2006 at 1:46 PM

OK... After some tries... i finally found out WHERE is the problem. In the task manager, i was checking the amount of PHYSICAL memory used... And suddenly discovered the monitoring of the VIRTUAL memory use... So, i can go over the 2GB limits...

Thanks for the help !

Another simple stupid question: Actually, The task manager shows 1.5 Physical memory and 2.2 Virtual memory. Does this means Poser is using 3.7 GB memory ?


marvlin posted Sat, 15 July 2006 at 2:20 PM

Quote - OK... After some tries... i finally found out WHERE is the problem. In the task manager, i was checking the amount of PHYSICAL memory used... And suddenly discovered the monitoring of the VIRTUAL memory use... So, i can go over the 2GB limits...

Thanks for the help !

Another simple stupid question: Actually, The task manager shows 1.5 Physical memory and 2.2 Virtual memory. Does this means Poser is using 3.7 GB memory ?

I have to say, that I am far from an expert myself :o)

Like alot of people, I am learning as I go through trial and error.

As regards virtual memory and whether it allows you to effectively render as though you have more RAM, I don't know.

My belief has always been that you can only utilise the actual physical RAM for the purposes of rendering.

If this is not the case then this will be something else I have learnt today :op

If it is as I belief, then you would definetly benefit from more RAM :o)

i7 5930K 3.60Ghz | ASUS X99-S Motherboard | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400MHz RAM | NVIDIA TitanX | Antec 1000w Power supply | Windows 10 x64 Home


nruddock posted Sat, 15 July 2006 at 2:24 PM

The figure you want is in a column in the Task Manager.
Select the Process tab and then View menu | "Select Columns..." and make sure "Memory Usage" and "Peak Memory Usage" are checked.
These columns will show what the names suggest.
The Peak Memory column saves you from having to watch the Mem Usage numbers while rendering.


maldowns posted Sun, 16 July 2006 at 12:17 AM

to stewer-

please give us a step by step tutorial on how you tweaked poser/windows to get 2.7gig

out of it i'm sure many would like to know

i'm running xp home on an athlon64 3500 with 1 gig ram and looking to add more

especially if i can get poser to fully utilize it without choking at 1.3 or 1.5 ram

i need to populate my scenes a little more with a reasonable render quality and time factor as well


semidieu posted Sun, 16 July 2006 at 4:10 AM

I don't want to answer for stewer... but he already said on another thread that he didn't do a step by step tutorial for one reason: the hack involve changing some important thing in Windows (when using 32bit version) and changing something on the Poser executable.

Both are UNSUPPORTED and he only wants people who know how to do it do it, because you must be able to revert it !

But...if you check he's website and if you ask specific questions here, i'm sure you will be able to do the "hack" really easily... Just one imortant thing (where i had the most problem... Do not use the built in "Command prompt" of Windows, but use the one coming from Visual C++). With that info, you should able to make the necessary changes... And remember, if you are under Windows XP 64bit version, you only need to do the hack on the Poser executable.


danamongden posted Mon, 17 July 2006 at 5:28 PM

I'm so glad someone tried this again.  I had tried it back on Poser 5 and still crashed around 1.9GB due to some other internal limitation, but on P6-SR2 it's working fine.  I'm about halfway through a final-mode render w/ 5 V3's, a bunch of trees, hair, etc.  It was 649MB before render.  It peaked at about 2.31GB during the "loading textures" phase, and it's settled down in the range of 2.05GB to 2.25GB.  So far, so good.

The only weird thing is that my bucket-size has been cut in half.  When I had set it at 64, my buckets seem to be 32x32, and when I lowered it to 32, they now seem to be about 16x16.  For you others that have tried this, have you seen that effect as well?

Dan among Den


danamongden posted Mon, 17 July 2006 at 11:23 PM

Attached Link: Confluence

Just one last post to say thanks again!  I finished off my render at well over 2 GB.

jdehaven posted Wed, 19 July 2006 at 10:38 PM

Caught this thread a little later than most!  I found Stewers website doing a google search on RAM usage and Poser.

Just an update from the XP Pro 64bit perspective:

Its (the /LARGEADDRESSAWARE switch) working perfectly, scenes that would die out with memory resource errors that would only render at roughly 2500 by 1900 with a bucket size of 8 are now rendering at 8000 and bucket size of 256- this is really going to revolutonize my ability to get higher rez work done!  Thanks Stewer- you are, without a doubt, a great and wonderful human being!

My machine has 4GB physical RAM, so although I understood the limitations of 32 bit application address space usage, it still pissed me off to run into memory errors, especially running an OS capable of addressing terrabytes!

 Oh- and I think ill give this a try on Vue 5 infinite as well, it suffers from the same memory limitations... hmmmm, this could revolutionize my workflow!


xantor posted Wed, 19 July 2006 at 11:05 PM

I was wondering if this would work with other programs, there is probably no reason why it wouldn`t.


danamongden posted Thu, 20 July 2006 at 8:49 AM

Xantor,

It might work.  It might not.  Some programs inadvertently have internal 2GB limitations, i.e. assumptions made by programmers that 2GB is the limit.  My company deals with large datasets, and when we made the switch to /LARGEADDRESSAWARE a few years back, we found and fixed a few of those limits.  If the program you're considering trying this on has some of those issues remaining, then you'll likely crash when you cross 2GB.  That's what happened to me when I tried this back on Poser 5.