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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 21 6:06 am)
Subject: Are you upset at the eternal poser prejudice or art done in poser is not art sit
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I hope you have your flame retardant undies on :)
This question or something similar gets posted about once a month and some receive it well and discuss, others get their undies in a bunch and, well... don't discuss, hehe
I myself think art is purely subjective. It involves being "creative". Art evokes an emotion. If Poser or any type of program or medium allows someone to create something that stimulates one or more of the senses to evoke an emotion from someone, be it for good or bad, then that's art.
Besides, painters don't make their own canvass or brushes or paints. They buy them and use them as the tools to create their art.
People who use programs and produce various types of digital art are using tools, just like the painter or sketch artist uses their tools. They're just different tools, but it produces the same thing.... art :)
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
I'm not upset. they've been bashing poser since at least '96 (in my experience). nobody's forcing them to look at poser renders, hence they may only click on 'em with bad intentions. 3d snobs using more expensive packages always love to bash poser, but they should remember that they, in turn, are bashed by artists who paint on canvas or draw on bristolboard. to those traditional artists, any image created by 3d software is just a shortcut, devoid of any human feeling.
People who critique '3d art' are typically assuming that the items in the image are all made by the artist. They are not critiquing just the image, but the creations pictured within. It is like critiquing a picture of a sculpture. S/he even says as much when mentioning the 'fingerprints of the artist'.
In the case of Poser, you are using someone else's models to make an image. As a Poser artist your 'art' is the image. It is 'virtual photography' of a sort.
When this critic says s/he does not know how to critique this image s/he is speaking true. S/he is a critic of sculptures who is not looking at the image, s/he is looking at the contents, the sculptures within the image.
My Homepage - Free stuff and Galleries
hate to say it, but that's not bashing poser. that's bashing a particular use of poser. as it says, " This just seems to be a standard 3D model with the breasts enlarged to extreme proportions (and not in a realistic manner either)," and "Taking a Poser model and enlarging the boobs, however, doesn't require much (if any) skill, and bores me rigid," and "If there were some personality or creativity shown in the posing, lighting etc, then I may have liked it better - but as it is, in my opinion, what you've done is no more skilled or creative than dressing up a doll or action figure." that's not a criticism of poser. that's a criticism of your work. even if i disagreed with it (i haven't seen the work, so i can't actually say i would, but i do have a wide range of styles i like), it would still be valid criticism because, well, criticism is always personal. the moderator even goes out of his/her way to say that the opinion is personal and that you should keep posting.
you might convince me that there was a nicer way that this could have been stated, and i might disagree with the opinion, but i don't see any prejudice here. there's absolutely no, "poser isn't art," statement.
in my opinion, you can do one of two things. you can ignore the critique or try to work on lighting, posing, composition, and morphing. i really couldn't say which is the right thing, nor could i even if i saw the work in question because you have to follow what you think is best. but complaining about a negative critique of a nature i've basically seen within the poser community (along with put your figure on the ground, don't use the default lighting, give her some expression and don't have her stare blankly into the distance) is really purposeless. frankly, it sucks to have one's work criticized (believe me, i know), but it's one of the best ways to have your work get better. and all the points raised are ones i've seen raised within the community and i have seen such critiques help various artists.
Quote - Besides, painters don't make their own canvass or brushes or paints. They buy them and use them as the tools to create their art.
To be historically accurate, both Leonardo daVinci and Michelangelo in fact did make their own paints, and often stretched their own canvases.
As for the art part, there are even certain 3d artist, working in such programs as Maya and 3dMax that consider Poser inferior because of the use of stock figures instead of doing everything from scratch. I once addressed this contention, by saying that if Hollywood had to work under same criteria, then everytime they ever wished to do a movie, then they'd have to go out and select a man and woman, breed them, and then wait 20 to 30 years for their offspring to reach maturity. All living, breathing, human models are STOCK to a greater or lesser degree. The artistry is not in the newness of the model, but in how the director, and cameraman has realized a particular vision using him.
In Poser, we build scenes in much the same way as a Playhouse director builds his stagesets, and we make no less reliance on ready made props and scene locations than Universal or Paramont do themselves. But no one denigates Hollywood as unartistic, the way they do with Poser.
It's probably because Poser is still in its infancy, whereas photography is now hoary with age. Time and patience will eventually change all this.
David P. Hoadley
STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS
Quote - I just feel like going and kick the guy in the nuts for being such a pompous ass..i have similar reactions on some other websites...
ouch...pity the person who offers you an honest critique.
is there any chance of seeing the image in question?
Cheers
Stefan
i think mike angelo or some master sculptor said... it's already made and in the stone...i just have to bring it out. in poser. the model is the base material that holds hides the artwork. you either bring it out or just rearrange the base material. sounds to me that the mod was saying you just re-arranged it. i've seen what i would call artwork from poser users and i've seen re-arrangements of poser bases. i started using max and from my point of view. those that use max are the sculptors of the 3d world and those that use poser are the painters of it. neither are better than the other. they are two totally differring mediums and as such can't be compared. it's like saying a ballet dancer is better than a ballroom or disco dancer. you can't well you can if you like to critique on format. all we can truthfully use as comparison is how good they are in their own field. on a scale of 1 to ten in poser art where would the originator of this thread mark his work, where would we mark it. if it falls say below 4 or 5, then the odds are the mod was right about it and it is just a poser model with big tits. if it gets a 7 or higher then i'd say it has some artistic merit. same goes for max artist. the main thing to take into account is that most people lie to themselves about their own work....they may say it's crap but deep down they're hoping someone strokes them and tells them different. i know my poser art is crap..i know nothing about lighting etc. at first i thought hey thats good...then i saw some of the good renders lol. because of this i'm going the max way and trying to create a model from scratch......upto now it seems i have a better grasp of sculptin than painting. i could never achieve many of the results poser people do and because of that i take my hat off to them. same goes for a lot of model creators...but i think with this i have a chance....given 12 months work or so. dp mentioned a few artist who made their own paints etc..well a lot did do that but a lot also got them ready made. da, vinci prob got his students to do his for him as did others who had students.art isn't about knowing how to make the tools we use. it's about knowing how to use any of the tools that are available to us. it's about technique and imagination. it;'s about what we put into it and more importantly what we and others take out of what we create. be it a max model or a poser render, if it looks like shit and it smells like shit, the odds are it's shit.
now is the person who started this thread gonna show us the work so we can actually decide if the mod gave fair comment or not. without it everything thats said about the mod is just hot air. let your poser peers say what they think about it.
billy
jmo
tons of people denigrate hollywood as unartistic. for, actually, much the same reason as people do poser images. if you actually read the critique, it was about being original and showing the voice of the artist. and, even more like criticisms of hollywood, art that's about more than big breasts. it doesn't say anything about all poser art. it mentions someone who made their own model, which, yeah, is a great way to force yourself to be original. but it explicitly says that the moderator did not see any original morphing other than breast size, and didn't feel that originality or skill was shown in the "posing, lighting, etc." in the image. not in that those aspects generally didn't show skill, but that in this case they were unoriginal (in the moderator's opinion). if it's not possible to critique poser work on those points, then there's no point in asking for any critiques at all.
actually, if the public perception of poser follows the same arc as film and photography, it will mean that it will take more and more work and more and more skill on top of a unique vision to make works people see as valid art. not every snapshot gets shown in a gallery, and not every movie is seen as a great work.
maybe the person has a bias- i certainly don't know enough to say. maybe this work is, in fact, brilliantly lit, posed, composed, and breathtaking in its execution. in which case the criticism can be ignored. but this is pretty useful (if harsh) constructive criticism if one wanted to actually pay attention to it.
and personally, whether i agree with the mod or not, i'd say it's a fair critique because it's an honest assessment of their opinion. whether it's accurate or not is always going to be a matter of opinion.
In the tradictional pictorial arts there was both art--an aesthetic process--and craft--the technical process of making the image. Photography was only different in the constraints it put on the process, and the ability to easily make multiple copies of a work. But artists had been making woodcuts for centuries. There's a huge amount of Poser stuff posted which shows little sign of either craft or aesthetic judgement; even painting by numbers has somebody deciding the shape of the daubs and which number goes where. And then you can get into the argument of whether or not collage and decoupage can be art. Poser does let you make pictures without learning the craft of draughtmanship. There's some snobbishness about that, but using Poser well is also a craft, and you still have to practise the aesthetic judgement to assemble the scene. Poser can produce art. Not all of us can manage it.
From the continued reticence of the original poster, I'm beginning to wonder if we haven't all been had -by a trawling troller.
David P. Hoadley
STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS
if he wasn't trolling it seems he doesn't feel his work would pass muster or else he would have shared it. is'nt it good though, that from this thread comes the fact that poser people aren't as smug and self satisfying as some would have you believe. nice that they actually came out on the side of fair critique towards their medium of use.
billy
This was my thinking, as well: since the original poster offered a specific example of critique of his work, I hought it only fair to see the picture on its own merits: the critic did seem to be judging the picture for it's content, rather than its heritage. Without seeing the image itself, it's difficult to know whether that opinion was justified, or whether the guy was, in fact, disguising a general distaste for Poser art with an attack on the picture in particular - i mean, if the picture had been incredible, then this critique just wouldn't stand up.
Looking at the gallery efforts here, there does seem to be some effort put into images beyond the 'use generic character, ramp up the breast size, throw in a stock pose, and render with default lights' kind of thing the critic sems to be suggesting. I'm not sure whether 'warm fuzzy thoughts' is the image that got slated (I REALLY can't see it being the other one!), but if it is, then the critic does seem to have been quite harsh. If it's another image not yet posted here, though, then there's no way of knowing.
As to the possibility of this being a troll... David, not everyone who doesn't return to a thread they created is an evil, forum-baiting lurky thing. It's quite possible that, not having set the thread to automatically notify him of replies, he's lost track of where this thread is, or how people are responding. Looking at his post history, there's no sense of him being the sort of person who sets off a thread purely to cause anger or heated debate. Many of them are geniune questions geared towards learning more about learning the program's inner secrets. True, he's not a regular poster (2 posts in 2003, 3 in 2004... 2005 sees 5 posts, and this year brings another 8), but that simply means he doesn't have a great deal to say. Please, let's give people the benefit of the doubt over their intentions until they prove themselves unworthy?
There, I think that's me done now... I'll crawl back into my hole and be quiet again...
jonthecelt (unused to being the voice of reason, and kinda scared that it was so... painless)
i doubt he's a troll either. i think he just got miffed at a crit he didn't like.
i looked at the two pics in your profile darth and while i quite like the space girl i think it would be more arty if she had some kind of background to put her in some kind of contextual situ.
the nude. if this is the pic the mod saw then to some extent i have to agree with her. it seems like the legs are from a smaller person though this is prob the angle of the pose. other than that i don't know what to say without offending you. for me it lacks good lighting. needs postwork to define the legs so she doesn't seem puppetlike amongst other things, and a background. all in all it doesn't seem to me like much thought or effort went into it. it lacks that thing that makes something art ...the thing words can't describe . ah i know...it lacks composition....i think. out of ten i would give it a 3 or 4. all that said it has potential to be a lot better. and i'm sure you have the potential to make it so. jmo
billy
billy
:)
I'm afraid I will have to agree with the judge on this one, seems like most here at rendo and across the net who do nude figures always get the most responses, I guess the moto is "when in doubt do a nude" all the lustful teengae boys will say, "hey thats one hell of a render" what a great skin texture, then we have all the cute anim crap or maya dolls or whatever you wanna call that sh*t
I keep on wondering when all the cutsie junk will die, keep seeing more and more poser dolls popping up in the market place, who is buying that crap? what on gods earth is it used for?
That critique was well written and probably hit the nail on the head.
One, and probably the main, reason why Poser is badly accepted is that many of its users simply use some clicks to compose something. You click a character for V3, then you click to add a skin, click to add some oily look, click to add hair, click to add a pose to that hair, click to add a texture to that hair, click to add some clothes, click to add a texture for these clothes, click on a pose, click on a lights setup and that's about it. Fast food. Junk food.
If that is Poser, then it's understandable it isn't accepted by many as being very creative. Luckily we know it is much more. Or better: that it can be much more. Many people I really consider to be artists show that here in the galleries. One of the basic facts of artists -and I live with one that has exhibited all over the world and yes: he makes his own panels and egg-tempera- is that they just don't care and are so immersed in their creation that they even forget how much fun they have whilst creating.
Apart from that: I suggest the mods make a sticky for the "IS POSER ART OR NOT?" thread. That way, we would certainly be in the Guinness book of records for the longest thead ever on the internet.
Have fun, do your thing and forget the rest.
"David, not everyone who doesn't return to a thread they created is an evil, forum-baiting lurky thing."
You're right, jonthecelt, and I have most likely wronged the man. Therefore, let me go on record as tendering my most heartfelt appology. The Rabbis hold that the greatest sin, equivilent to murder itself, is to slander a fellow human being, even if what we say is true. If we must rebuke a person, then it should be in private, away from the eys of spectators.
Therefore I wish to say: "I am sorry, please forgive me!"
David P. Hoadley
STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS
I claim that the "Poser prejudice" is a prejudice. Not every Poser image is a NVIATWAS, and neither is every Maya user frowning upon Poser. For example: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=374516 http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=249955 http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=253764 http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=184998 http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=253152 http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=269513 http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=271048 http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=349157 As for the original poster: I don't see that someone was attacking Poser or you personally there. I see truthful comments about your work (which I assume is what you were hoping to get when you put your work out in public), and if you read it carefully you will find that it gives you quite a few pointers on how to improve your future works.
David, you impress me... it's not often that someone is willing to recant their words and offer a public apology here. I hope you did not take my words as a personal affront to yourself (though you seem not to have done :) )... the word 'troll' is used to often in the world of forae, any time someone offers a point of view which is unpopular or goes against the grain of the majority. sometimes, granted, it is accurate - but often it is not. Nothing stirs a good flame war, however, than suggesting that someone is a troll - whether they are or not.
Once again, David, kudos indeed for your strength of character.
jonthecelt (veering WAY off topic, but feeling he had to write something)
jonthecelt, I was not offended in any way shape or form. What you said was perfectly true, and by the same manner that one has caused an injury, so must one offer restitution. There must be a balance -what was done in public must be rectified in public.
David P. Hoadley
STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS
just for the record-
stewer - oh, i definitely believe the poser prejudice is a prejudice. and in fact, i think it's a rather self-serving one. poser isn't art because you just load presets! but a 3d pic that recreates an unremarkable photo of a celebrity is because, hey, it involved skill. or a 3d pic of a plain ol' pinup. just because someone creates everything to make their own nude woman in sexy armor ina temple weilding a ridiculous sword doesn't make it bettter. or a badly painted version of said material. if the material were judged instead of the method, then the criticism would have to apply to themselves as well as others.
oh, and dp - your enthusiasm and vigor are equalled only by your honesty and openness. you're a rare person.
hi guys,
I am reading your comments and i would agree with most of what i have read.
My simple point was that you as a viewer you have taste and taste is a matter of choice. you either like what you see or don`t...
The guy did not really critique the drawinf itself and even if he did i would not really care. i got four persons previous that said wow and cool and such and my art is on some well known websites yes for big boobs lovers..one of editors of the site liked my poser artso much that he gave me access to the website so that i can show my art.
My rant comes from the fact that the guy ridiculed what i used to come to the final piece of art that is shown. And i think that it was unfair for him to do so. I think any method is good wether you are using pen and paper or 3d programs or a sock to make your art. That person feels that because of what i have used seems to think that the art is inferior.
here is a link to my art...i have to warn you that it is big boobs art real simple like pin up style and that you will probably agree with the guy that started the whole thing and say to me that it is uninspired and that is fine...i can live with that..actors makes masterpieces and then they make crappy pictures and they live with it so i will do the same..
have fun and cheers!!!
here is the link below:
Well, if that latest picture is the one in question, darth... then I have to confess, it does seem a little derivative. PArt of the difficulty with your pin-up work is the complete lack of context to them - without a background or any props or similar, or mood lighting,or a striking pose, or anything that takes them away from being 'standard', then it's not going to inspire people.
The original critic was not having a go at Poser art in general - he was likening your work to many other derivative pieces of poser art, which, in fairness, is not entirely unfounded. There is little in your work which defines it as yours - no postwork style or camera flourishes. Ok, you could argue that the barcode image makes it recognisably yours... but do you need to see the name 'Vincent' in the corner of a painting to know it's a Van Gogh?
There should be something about the image itself that says something, or that evokes a given mood. Within this particular piece... sorry, but it just doesn't have it for me.
jonthecelt
STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS
Content Advisory! This message contains nudity
STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS
"OY! 'Arry! where's thot pink pony and the cricket bat?!"...;)
As a fellow macromasophile (now there's a crossword puzzler..;) I don't have a problem with that, but to be honest, I tend to go with the 'standard sizes' because you have to rerig the clothes, it's nothing but work, work work..;)
Thought experiment..try reposting with a 'flat-chested' model and see what they say...it's supposed to fit in a wine glass, or something like that..;)
Creating on a 1 to 10 scale can be a 10, critiquing is usually a 1 or 2..;) Now the real trick is to take the 'cliche' and do something new with it. I seem to remember Ernyoka doing an NVIATWAS with a..more 'seasoned' citizen, a coupla years back.
You can post pics almost anywhere ( I see a lot of dupes among the 'communards', the 'artzones', etc. ) If they don't like the show, just take it down the road..;)
I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit
anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)
while i tend to agree that maybe my poser needs background, i have found after experimenting that they detract from the original piece of attraction wich was the figure itself.
I could make arrange to have those fancy castle or rivers or pieces of wood in the backrounds but guess what...everybody is doing that!
I would end up looking and being the clone artist of a clone of another clone artist. And i do not like the idea.
I plan on adding more as i go along to make the art seem to have less to do with poser but my idea is not to create those wonderfull worlds within poser.
That is one of the reasons why probably people hate poser so much as it is always a figure in some fantastic bacground and there are tons upon tons of poser picture like that.
George Petty a famous pin up artist tended to present just the figure in his art and people liked it.
You have to chose between having something simple or have clutter that makes the piece look like another cloned piece of art.
I could put ten thousand candles within a scene and the figure and all that people would look at is the figure.
If i am doing landscapes then it is a completely different story the scene is what is important therefore my focus will be on the scenery.
My scenes for the moment look empty but all i want is there....
"Are you upset at the eternal poser prejudice or..." etc..
No, I'm not upset at all.
If they don't want to use the methods I use, well that's up to them.
If they don't like any images I produce, that's fine too.
I create my my pics to satisfy me, not anyone else. Very occasionally, I create something that I think that others might appreciate. On those rare occasions, I publish the result. I ignore any criticism that doesn't reflect any helpful advice on the final render.
My tools are: AC3D, Wings, Hexagon, Poser, Vue5I, Bryce, PSP9 and Picture Publisher 8. I use them as and when I think one of them is relevant to get the image I have in mind.
I often get it wrong.
Which is why I don't post images very often.
But also, I don't put my own ego into the pic. So if it gets ignored, or even slated by many, it doesn't matter to me.
I wasn't doing it for everyone else's enjoyment, nor for universal "Hey look at me!! Haven't I done great!!" type approval.
I was doing it for MYSELF!! And if the others don't like it, they can stuff their opinions where the sun don't shine. (Except I'd never tell them that - that'd just boost their egos)....
Cheers,
Diolma
having one's own yahoo group is likely the safest idea. that way, any trolls can be quickly quashed. in the original image in this thread, if the troll didn't like giant-boob renders with no backgrounds, he could have seen that from the thumbnail, and just avoided clicking on it and upsetting the artist with comments belabouring the obvious.
I`m a "Traditional Artist", I have been since I was 8 years old (a very long time ago). And yes I have sold some works of mine here and there. So, as a "Traditional Artist" who works with pencil, pen, inks and paint, and still does, I must say than some of my most satisfying work has been done in 3D using poser. I am not a snob, I love what is being done here, and on other sites, in 3D, digital, and 2d. Is it art. Yes. Nuff Said...IMHO.
Quote - I could make arrange to have those fancy castle or rivers or pieces of wood in the backrounds but guess what...everybody is doing that!.
then do it or something else in an original way.
George Petty a famous pin up artist tended to present just the figure in his art and people liked it
no disrespect but pettys work is of a different calibre. as is olivia whose cheescakes are often just a figure, and not always a whole figure.
billy
Quote - "
I create my my pics to satisfy me, not anyone else. Very occasionally, I create something that I think that others might appreciate. On those rare occasions, I publish the result. I ignore any criticism that doesn't reflect any helpful advice on the final render.
Diolma
crit without advice or help is just a vent
billy
Quote - having one's own yahoo group is likely the safest idea. that way, any trolls can be quickly quashed. in the original image in this thread, if the troll didn't like giant-boob renders with no backgrounds, he could have seen that from the thumbnail, and just avoided clicking on it and upsetting the artist with comments belabouring the obvious.
why were they a troll? would this thread have started if the obvious were indeed obvious to the guy who started the thread? and why not leave a comment saying what they did if they didn't like like it. they did leave something more than just ..i hate big tit birds from poser and your work sucks..they did actually mention what they thought would imrove the piece harsh though it was
as for a group where you can simply quash fair crit. thats all well and good if you just want to be stroked by like minded people. jmo
billy
billy, a troll is in the eye of the beholder. :lol: however, in all the poser-related forums I've participated in, a troll is universally defined as somebody who comments negatively on poser renders. it's the cause of innumerable threads like this, because it's very rare in the poser subculture for anybody to say anything bad about a particular poser render. I've found that poser users don't want to hear about the deficiencies of their works. they want supportive comments that will convince them to persevere and to produce superior images, which is a skill that takes alotta time, effort and encouragement.
Quote - billy, a troll is in the eye of the beholder. :lol: however, in all the poser-related forums I've participated in, a troll is universally defined as somebody who comments negatively on poser renders. it's the cause of innumerable threads like this, because it's very rare in the poser subculture for anybody to say anything bad about a particular poser render. I've found that poser users don't want to hear about the deficiencies of their works. they want supportive comments that will convince them to persevere and to produce superior images, which is a skill that takes alotta time, effort and encouragement.
lmao at the eye of the beholder nancy.
i understand what you're saying though if people in any genre of art realize that a small amount of fair and sometimes negative crit when given with sound advice and intelligent feedback will go a lot further in allowing the recipient to advance their craft than all the backslapping and ego stroking they give to each other which usually onlymeans they never learn and still throw out the same ole same ole boring run of the mill dross tinme after boring time. i admit some do it cos they like it but what i can't understand is why they don't want to improve. maybe they should have a real critique forum for poser where thopse that have thicker skins can throw their stuff and get real crit that really does help them improve. things along the lines of...this doesn't work for me because a, b and c etc. if we had something like that maybe some of those who think they pump out art could actually begin to learn their craft and pump out some real art. again, jmo lol
billy
:)
There is no problem with using pre-made 3D items (this includes Poser Figures)...
I'm terrible at making humaniod 3D characters, thus I have purchased poser to help me out... (why reinvent the wheel?) In most repects I do agree with the person who critiqued your render.
This is also the reason why "I" havent done a completed render in poser on this site (or any) until I feel that I could use it proficiently. Sure, I could throw together a wack of items on a figure and do a kewl effect with lighting... but I dont want to do that with poser... I want to be able to use poser and mold it as clay in my hands, I want to take a figure and create something unique out of it... so people who view it have to second guess that the figure was from poser.
I hope this pushes you towards another level... take poser and mold it darthbobvilla! Into something that doesnt scream "Poser". Keep on creating.
Carrara 7 Pro, Anime Studio Pro 8, Hexagon 2.5, Zbrush 4.6, trueSpace 7.6, and Corel Draw X3. Manga Studio 4EX, Open Canvas 5, WACOM Cintiq 12WX User
Personally, I don't like figures rendered against a blank background. I like my pictures to have the illusion that they are something you are actually looking at. If you don't want a distraction, pose against a curtain or a wall, but a plain solid colour looks like a failure of the imagination.
Backgrounds only detract from the foreground when done badly. A good background enhances the foreground.
i agree phantast
and also a middleground in many cases. with simple shading even a curtain can have all three .even a simple three line sketch behind the figure can be utilised to at give least an impression the figures in a room.(lines that are inside the peace symbol) add to that a few pen strokes to denote floor and wall and the background starts to live. adding more depth to the shading brings as you say the forground alive. it puts them in context./
billy
Actually we have the last laugh at these snobs.
If the 3D work they do is so superior so good, esp. the models, they'd be converting them for us to BUY.
How many folks were upset that Kim Goosens converted Girl for use in Poser?
The folks who didn't have Poser.
All of those requests to release her and POSER users got her and he (Kim G.) made some $$$$$.
If the snobs work is so good, make some money off of us Poser "losers".
Oh, but wait. It's about ART not MONEY.
Nevermind! :)
"Few are agreeable in conversation, because each thinks more of what he intends to say than that of what others are saying, and listens no more when he himself has a chance to speak." - Francois de la Rochefoucauld
Intel Core i7 920, 24GB RAM, GeForce GTX 1050 4GB video, 6TB HDD
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Poser 12: Inches (Poser(PC) user since 1 and the floppies/manual to prove it!)
Can Poser be used to create "art?"
Look here ... and then ... you decide :biggrin:
cheers,
dr geep
;=]
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
Quote - Actually we have the last laugh at these snobs.
If the 3D work they do is so superior so good, esp. the models, they'd be converting them for us to BUY.
and you think the models poser uses are made where....in photoshop....in never never land....or perhaps in 3d modelling programs. every single model poser people buy or use is made directly using a 3d app. even the morphs and textures can be said to be their because of the 3d app. without them you wouldn't be able to take the prop or figure into poser and texture or morph. without the 3d app there would be no poser per say. ...so in that respect they in fact have the last laugh. why is it always about them and us for gods sake. why can't we just agree that there is good great and bad artists in both kind of formats and leave it at that.
billy
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hi all,
I can
t get over the fact that even if you create really decent art with poser that some people will still try to say that it is cheap and lifeless and without any artistic merit at all. I dont understand why people still are notgettingthat poser is a tool to help and not some push button app as some people think it is. I know that probably a lot of people here are going thru this and will always encounter a moron that will look at your art and sayit`s poser so it ain`t worth crapi know i should let it slide and not make a big case of this but why do we get morons that have such point of views come in and piss on our parade and think that they can get away with it all the time.I totally agree that you can love a type of art or hate it. I agree that you can look at a piece of art and find it good or bad according to his or her taste but why always try to find fault in the method used to bring out the final image out to the public.
Am i gonna criticize lucas and ILM for using AMD cpu chips instead or INTEL cpu
s that they in their pcs to render the stuff for the Star Wars movies...Here are the coments that a moderator did after i posted some art on some website.
Quote from the moderator below:
It's a Poser model, and as such I don't really know how to critique it.
You see, some of the things I respond to in a work of art are personality, style, and technique. This just seems to be a standard 3D model with the breasts enlarged to extreme proportions (and not in a realistic manner either).
Are you someone with a genuine love and appreciation for the larger lady, or just someone with a juvenile breast fixation, who only sees women as sexual objects? It's so artificial, emotionally uninvolving and lacking in personality (of the model or the artist), that I can't tell one way or the other - and I don't much care either.
Now, maybe I'm way off the mark, and you do in fact possess amazing 3D skills - but this doesn't show much evidence of that. There's nothing on show here that anyone with a copy of the program and a vague degree of competence couldn't acheive.
Hmmm, maybe I did know how to critique it after all.
here is my reponse to those above comments:
While i accept your critique i find it unfair and overly negative.
People tend to think that 3d is easy and it is not, it is as much complicated as doing an actual drawing.
People have that mentality that it is too easy and therefore as no merit.
People like that would say the same for a photographer and would say that it is easy to just go out and take a pic of a waterfall tweak it and display it as art. Some peole will comment that the piece is beautifull while otherwise willalways try to find fault in the technique used to achieve the vision and will always comment the pieces in a negative way. And some people will just look and say wow, this is great. they are really looking at the art and not trying to find fault in everything that the artist`s does.
I think that people are putting down 3d too much think about all the work now done in 3d,,,games ,films etc...it is hard and there is tons of problem that you have to solve.
Art is not reserved only for those good with a pencil...anybody that creates is an artist wathever they use to put out their final vision and those who overly critique or those probably struglling on their own talent and are frustrated they they are not as good as they want to be or not the clone of this and that person.
I could have done stuff in pencil but i chose 3d because i like the medium.. i could have tried to become a clone of masamune shirow or leonardo davinci but there is only one of them and then there is me..so i want to be me and that is it..
as for the the large figure thing...yes i do love big boobs and such..i guess i am normal otherwise i woudl not make my girl that way..
i wrote this in defense of those people who are doing 3d and that are always put down by other because they say it is too easy or that you have to be half decent with a 3d program..
i do accept criticism but unfair ones i don``t and the one above was unfair to me and the 3d population out there...
if my stuff does not belong here then i will remove it to avoid people from being offended by the nature of my art.
I have looked at the site and see incredible talent here and some piece are really outstanding and original and eye pleasing.
thanks
and here was the guy`s comments after:
moderator`s Quote:
I have nothing against 3D.
Do I think it's easy? No.
Creating a 3D model from scratch (like ---------'s in his thread) requires a lot of skill, and I admire that. Also, as with a traditional sculpture, the model will have something of the artist's "fingerprints" on it.
Taking a Poser model and enlarging the boobs, however, doesn't require much (if any) skill, and bores me rigid. It has nothing of the artist's "fingerprints" on it, and is pretty much the same as any other standard Poser model - dull.
If there were some personality or creativity shown in the posing, lighting etc, then I may have liked it better - but as it is, in my opinion, what you've done is no more skilled or creative than dressing up a doll or action figure. If you want to view it as some artistic triumph, then go ahead - I think you're deluding yourself, but if it makes you happy, that's all that matters.
Am I being harsh? Probably. Sure, noone likes to have thier flaws and weaknesses bluntly pointed out, but it is helpful to our artistic growth.
Am I being honest? Definitely, for the reason stated above. There's no anti-3D agenda.
Am I being truthful? I think so. Although you will most likely disagree with some (or most) of what I say, perhaps it might give you the impetus to strive to be better (if only to prove me wrong) - and that is advantagious to both you and me.
And finally:
Despite my views, you should feel free to continue posting your work here if you so wish. Please don't take my status as a Moderator to mean that my opinion is anything other than that - there are no rules against 3D.
I just feel like going and kick the guy in the nuts for being such a pompous ass..i have similar reactions on some other websites...
A lot of people like the art i make but it angers me that some pompous clowns come in and instead of saying it is good or bad art, they make you wanna feel like an idiot and an incomptent because you use such and such tools to bring out your vision.
I guess some people share this point of view and are angered by this stupid prejudice and feel the same way i do.
some people will say ...it is same as being popular some people will alway try to bring you down in any shape or form to satisfy their own fragile ego.
let me know how you feel...