Ok, what is a Vue 6 Infinite "Nodelocked" license?

Also, am I right to think that the best way to get from Vue 5 Esprit to V6I is to sidegrade now from Vue 5 to V5I for $399 and then get the free upgrade from V5I to V6I (as I read it)?

TIA

gannon

A nodelocked license will work only for the machine you installed it on. A floating license can work on several machines but will use a license server to make sure only one machine at a time can use Vue. Upgrades will be automatically node locked. It seems that yes, the best upgrade path is to upgrade from vue 5 to infinite now at $399 and get vue 6 as a free upgrade (download upgrade only, node locked).

• agiel - www.linfa.net

Ok color me stupid but if a person has computer off a network or off Internet want a node locked install to those computers. Or a firewall to keep computers from calling each other.  :)

How does rendercows now work if a version is node locked.  I am confused by all this. :)
 

ïÏøçö

Good questions - I will try to get some details about the difference between licenses tomorrow at e-on's booth. I don't believe cows are affected, but I will check that as well.

• agiel - www.linfa.net

After looking at e-on's comparisons of V6 and V6I as well as the substantial differences in their pricing, it looks like e-on is taking a step up in distinguishing V6I as the "Professional" product (and therefore having this nodelocking/network requirement) and V6 as the "Consumer" product.

gannon

You can upgrade Vue 4 pro to Vue 5 infinite for $179. Then you are entitled to a free vue 6 infinite. http://www.e-onsoftware.com/order/ProductList.php?sid=19f1044a0c24397bfdee28b4b9902d96&l=1&producttypeid=37 It is cheaper this way than if you upgrade Vue 5 infinite to Vue 6 infinite.

But will e-on let us upgrade the same version of Vue 4 Pro twice.......  That is what I want to know.
  I and lots others have upgraded from Vue Pro 4 already to Vue Inf.

I agree if we can do it twice it is only way to go. :)

ïÏøçö

Well color me stupid too- but why are Vue 5 Infinite early adopters being screwed in this? Why is Vue 4 Pro so special and deserving of a such a good deal? This doesn't make any sense to me!

I fully expected V5I users to get V6I for $199-- not $299 (plus LOCKED as well?) (What else is locked- the Cornucopia models- one per user license?)

Go ahead and delete this Agiel- like you did my other post questioning this- as I've made a copy and will post in the other forums which still allow freedom of speech...

Quote - Upgrades will be automatically node locked.

I'm not sure to understand correctly. Does this mean that as an upgrader from V5i to V6i, I will be forced to have a nodelocked V6i?

I would not mind paying a reasonable extra on the upgrade fee for the flexibility of having the software installed on my laptop, and I would like to have that option. Otherwise it seems a bit unfair that only new customers can have a floating license.

Another thing that leaves me thinking, if a floating license needs a server, does that mean that I would not be able to take my laptop away from the studio (and the server) and use V6i? If so, then it seems that the licensing scheme needs a bit of tuning. I perfectly understand the need to avoid that several users in a network run different copies of the software with just one license. But there must be also a scheme for portability. I don't think I'm the only one who somehow lives split in two cities and uses a laptop as a traveling alternative to the desktop installation (and not as part of a studio network).

with paranoid cornucopia it is only natural the later upgrades of vue would continue this trend in the extreme. it makes perfect sense now

veritas - this post is questioning this - I have no reason to remove it. Your other post was not questioning anything - it was only a list of unfounded accusations about e-on's intentions. I hope you appreciate the difference.

• agiel - www.linfa.net

Quote - Another thing that leaves me thinking, if a floating license needs a server, does that mean that I would not be able to take my laptop away from the studio (and the server) and use V6i?

If Eon use FlexLM, then "license checkout" is a feature they could enable, on the other hand if they've written their own, then it's a matter of wait and see.

Quote - You can upgrade Vue 4 pro to Vue 5 infinite for $179. Then you are entitled to a free vue 6 infinite. http://www.e-onsoftware.com/order/ProductList.php?sid=19f1044a0c24397bfdee28b4b9902d96&l=1&producttypeid=37 It is cheaper this way than if you upgrade Vue 5 infinite to Vue 6 infinite.

Hmm, I wonder if I can upgrade my Vue5Inf to Vue5Inf for 179$.......... and get Vue 6 Inf for free.......

Dreams are just nightmares on prozac...
Digital WasteLanD

I wonder this too. but I think it more proper to say upgrade my vue 4 pro to vue 5 infinite, then receive vue 6 infinite for free.

Wait a minute.... are you guys talking about using vue 4 pro to upgrade again to vue 5 infinite, after having upgraded once to vue 5 infinite a while ago ? Is that what you mean by upgrading twice ? if it is, this should definitely NOT be allowed.

• agiel - www.linfa.net

I started Vue at V5i, so I don't have the apparent luxury of having the older version :/

Agiel - I agree - it would be odd.

Dreams are just nightmares on prozac...
Digital WasteLanD

yes, this is what we are talking about. It would save us almost half the price of the upgrade. I agree it shouldn't be allowed in a perfect world but the upgrade price is higher for vue 5 infinite to vue 6 infinite than it is for vue 4 pro users to upgrade to Vue 6 Infinite. That doesn't seem fair and "shouldn't be allowed" either. Why such a price difference. Is this a mistake. Well, i don't want to focus on it anymore. Vue 6 infinite looks good and this plus the node lock is killing the joy. Maybe I'll downgrade from vue 5 infinite to Vue 6 and save some money. But that would be odd, too.

Well- that was at the HEART of what I said --in my other post- that Agiel deleted-- Maybe it was a bit CAUSTIC- but I think E-on is being very ODD in the way they are handling all this...

I don't think I have ever seen such a widely anticipated new piece of software greeted with so much distrust and confusion as this new version of Vue. E-on has created such a negative environment for themselves (and UNNECESSARILY SO) that its hard to believe myself some of the things I'm reading in the other forums...

Man, if there was EVER a company that needed someone who understood PUBLIC RELATIONS- it is E-on!!!

 

Ok... let me try this again using different words. 'node locked' is another name for the license we are currently using. For hobbyists, installation is meant for one user, meaning you can install it on your home pc and on a laptop if you want, since you are not using both of the them at the same time. For professional shops, it means one installation per machine. 'floating license' is mostly meant for professiona shops, to allow more flexibility with the way the software is installed on a local network.

• agiel - www.linfa.net

I'm late getting in on this thread but have I got it right?

I have V5I and I have to buy V6I, is that right?

A also have V5E because I upgraded  to Infinite from it, so if I upgrade from that again, I get V6I for free!!!!!!!!!

I'm confused!

And whoever heard of locking software like that, what happens if you buy a new PC, does that mean you can't use it on that new PC?

CONFUSED.CO.UK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

If you have vue 5 I, you can only upgrade to vue 6 I (or maybe downgrade to vue 6). You cannot reuse your copy of vue 5 to upgrade again to vue 5 I and get vue 6 for free. I know people have reported doing that but it is definitely not acceptable and a violation of license (once you upgrade from a version, you old version is supposed to be used for compatibility with only scenes, but it cannot be used to upgrade from it again). Besides, in your case, you wouldn't want to do that - you can upgrade from vue 5 i to vue 6 i for $299. Going from vue 5 E to vue 5 I and then to vue 6 I would set you back $399. There is no 'locking' of that nature in locked licenses. The term 'locked' is to be used by opposition to 'floating' licenses. You should be able to install vue on a new or reimaged machine without problem.

• agiel - www.linfa.net

Thanks for that explanation!  In regards to upgrading 2x - a handful are going to be quite disappointed.  Glad most didn't fall for that misconception :)

What Agiel is trying to point out that I think is being confused by the "locked" terminology is that we are already using "node-locked" licenses, we have been since the software first came out and all the way through the versions (1,2,3,4, and 5) the floating network license is a new feature to allow a user to install it on as many machines as they want but only be able to use 1 copy of the software at a time, ideal for office settings where you know you have 10 people who know how to use it but probably only 5 at a time who will use it, so you would by 5 licenses instead of 10.

Just my understanding of the situation, hope this clarifies some things. :)

I'm assuming it's "locked" the same way other aps like Adobe CS2 are: - You install the software. - You enter the serial number. - You register your serial number. - You get an authentication number for your machine from vue (probably via the web with prompt from screen "wizards" upon first launch, or with a phone call option for the 2 people in the Appalachians that don't have web access). You may or may not have to enter the authentication number manually upon email receipt of auth. number if not the "automatic" way. If you want to move Vue to another machine. You contact vue. You may or may not have to "de-authenticate" your machine. You repeat the installation process for your new machine, and authenticate that machine with a new authentication number from Vue. It sounds convoluted and a pain in the but, but if they implement it the same way Adobe did (at least IMHO) it is quick and painless. Although given the choice, the license server sounds better. I use C4D on a mac and would love to see what 6-extreme is like but their site only mentions 6 extreme for the PC. Anybody care to comment on how much a difference there would be between the more seamless workflow of Extreme with 2 way native interaction between vue and C4d vs. 6 infinite with the C4D plugin? I can't tell if they have the same working features but X is more fluid than I + plugin, or if X has different/more/better features beyond better integration between 2 aps.

Quote - I'm assuming it's "locked" the same way other aps like Adobe CS2 are: - You install the software. - You enter the serial number. - You register your serial number. - You get an authentication number for your machine from vue (probably via the web with prompt from screen "wizards" upon first launch, or with a phone call option for the 2 people in the Appalachians that don't have web access). You may or may not have to enter the authentication number manually upon email receipt of auth. number if not the "automatic" way. If you want to move Vue to another machine. You contact vue. You may or may not have to "de-authenticate" your machine. You repeat the installation process for your new machine, and authenticate that machine with a new authentication number from Vue.

That isn't what Agiel said. Agiel said we'll be allowed to install Vue6i on a second machine (such as laptop) as long as we don't use the copy on the first machine at the same time.

I have Photoshop CS2 and I can tell for sure that you can NOT install CS2 on a laptop if you installed it on your desktop machine first, you must first deactivate the desktop installation and then install on the laptop - just like you said.

Agiel said he verified with E-on about that, so if he says that we'll be able to install V6i on both our desktop PC and laptop PC, we have to trust him: he's got first hand news from E-on.

I don't have the details on how it will be implemented, but they did say it would be ok to install the same copy of Vue on a desktop and laptop as long as you don't use both of them at the same time.

• agiel - www.linfa.net

iloco - to answer your question about 'will e-on allow double upgrade from vue 4 pro', they are aware of that issue by now, but I do now know if they can or they will do something to prevent this. Once you have upgraded to a new version of any software, your current license applies to the most recent version you have. Former versions should ideally be destroyed. Now, it is clear that you want to hold on to that older copie to reinstall upgrades or to view old scenes that the new version may not be able to view. That's perfectly acceptable. What is not allowed for example, is to keep your recent version and give away the old version to your sister or your friend. That kind of transfer of ownership applies to all versions, including the last one you purchased. Another example is what we have here, once you upgrade from one version to the next, you lose the right to upgrade from that version again. This kind of behavior is unethical at best - it's up to e-on to decide how they will handle it.

• agiel - www.linfa.net

Orio: I don't want to divert the thread, but you are incorrect about the Photoshop CS2 license. Here is the relevant quote lifted directly from the CS2 license file as supplied with the software:

2.4 Portable or Home Computer Use. The primary user of the Computer on which the Software is installed may install a second copy of the Software for his or her exclusive use on either a portable Computer or a Computer located at his or her home, provided the Software on the portable or home Computer is not used at the same time as the Software on the primary Computer.

And in fact I have done exactly this. It works just fine.

Steve

O.k. Agiel- please explain this Vue 4 Pro un-grade weirdness--- WHY would Vue 4 Pro license holders get Vue 6 Infinite for $179- while Vue 5 Infinite owners have to pay $299 for the upgrade?

Veritas - you are confusing me with someone who works at / for e-on. They would have to explain it. They would have to answer that question themselves. My guess is that it is a loophole in their pricing that they didn't think about. The 'vue 4 pro to vue 5 infinite' price was an upgrade path at the time of the release of vue 5 infinite. The 'vue 5 infinite now to vue 6 infinite for free' is a special offer at the occasion of a new release. They probably didn't think people would try to trick them by upgrading again a version they already upgraded a long time ago. Once again.... 'vue 4 pro' users are legally getting vue 6 infinite for $179 only if they have not already upgraded to vue 5 infinite with their version. The others (who double upgrade) are just getting advantage of the situation by doing something that should not be allowed. For the record - the people I talked to at e-on do not approve of this loophole. I wouldn't be surprised if they did something to prevent it in the future...

• agiel - www.linfa.net

Agiel, thanks for defining the "node-locked" term.  I hope it is as you've presented it, and not some activation scheme.  The term "node-locked," to me at least, suggests that the application is limited to one node, or PC.  It doesn't really suggest one PC at a time.
Poser6 already uses a kind of node based system.  You can load the application on several PCs, but can only use it on one node within a network -- unless you have purchased multiple licenses, one per PC.
If you open Poser on a PC while it is running on another PC in a network, Poser will detect the SN and will not allow you to run the second instance of the application.  This also works if you have an internet connection.  Starting the application initiates a connection check, if live, then verifies SN on a server.  If anyone else presently with an internet connection is using this SN, then the second PC will not be able to run the application, unless -- of course there is a unique SN associated with the PC.
What I don't get, is why the distinction between the 2 Vue6 I products?  Vue6 I could all simply have a "floating license," as the detection technology is in that Vue version anyway?

QUOTE:For the record - the people I talked to at e-on do not approve of this loophole. I wouldn't be surprised if they did something to prevent it in the future...

Thanks for answeiing my question.  Got more but can wait and hope they are ansered before Vue 6 is made available to general public. :)

Ok so the ones who did it or doing it will get by and the ones like me and others who are asking if we can will be the ones who can not do this.
  It is e-on fault for not checking out these loopholes so we who see and ask are the ones who suffer and the ones who took advantage are the ones who come out on top.   Is this what you mean.
  I think it should be a fair playing field for all involved with Vue.

lol.....I think everyone knew it would be a 3 ring circus once Vue 6 was announced and I see it is headed that way from all the post on all the graphic forums.

 Why cannot e-on have a representive checking these forums and answering some the questions first hand.
This would go along with with customer support and clear up a lot of hear say things like the upgrading to save over 100 dollars if allowed for a few and not for all. :)

ïÏøçö

Directly from e-on's web site:
A Node-Locked License is specific to your computer (it is locked to it during the registration process). Node-Locked Licenses are typically used if you are using xStream Bundle on a single computer. You can also use Node-Locked Licenses for several computers, but each single License will have to be locked to a single computer.

Sounds like activation control to me.  You register each node-locked copy to one specific node (PC).  If you want to install on several PCs, you will need several licensed copies of Vue6 Infinite.

What a freking mess this is going to be.........:(

ïÏøçö

Agiel you miss the point. Why is it cheaper for vue4pro user to upgrade to vue6 infinite, than vue 5 infinite users???? That is the problem. It has nothing to do with upgrading twice although that would be a nice work around. The whole upgrade twice issue is just that a separate issue. The real problem is the discrepancy in price for people who have a more recent version of vue. The whole thing is backwards. In fact vue 4 pro users should pay $300 and vue 5 infinite users should pay $179. That is the logical conclusion. What say anyone to this?

Quote - Agiel said we'll be allowed to install Vue6i on a second machine (such as laptop) as long as we don't use the copy on the first machine at the same time. Agiel said he verified with E-on about that, so if he says that we'll be able to install V6i on both our desktop PC and laptop PC, we have to trust him: he's got first hand news from E-on.

Since I'm about to take the plunge and sidegrade, I also verified this on the phone today, while speaking to an e-on sales rep named Rick.  I can install V5I or V6I once the upgrade becomes available onto both my home desktop computer and my laptop.  As long as I'm only using one machine at a time, this is acceptable and should work fine.

I dare you, while there is still time, to have a magnificent obsession. --William Danforth

I agree with Cobra Eye 100%.

Quote - Directly from e-on's web site:
A Node-Locked License is specific to your computer (it is locked to it during the registration process). Node-Locked Licenses are typically used if you are using xStream Bundle on a single computer. You can also use Node-Locked Licenses for several computers, but each single License will have to be locked to a single computer.

Sounds like activation control to me.  You register each node-locked copy to one specific node (PC).  If you want to install on several PCs, you will need several licensed copies of Vue6 Infinite.

If you look at this quote, all it says really is that a license will be locked to a single machine. It is not incompatible with what I said... it will depend on what e-on means by one machine. If it is as I understood from talking to them, they mean it as in 'one machine at a time'. If you have a desktop and a laptop, you should still be able to install the same license on both machines. Run them one at a time on a network, they will run fine. Run both of them at a time, one will detect the other is already running and kick you out. Once again this is a mechanism to force professional shops to choose between a fixed number of license or something more flexible, at a higher cost. I don't see how it would change what we are doing as individual users.

• agiel - www.linfa.net

cobraeye - I get your point. My answer above was just an attempt to explain what may have happened. My point is that it does not look like e-on meant to give a cheaper deal for vue 4 pro users. It looks more like the collision of two deals - one made a while ago to go from vue 4 pro to vue 5 i and one made now for nvue 5 i to vue 6 i. if you think it is unfair, I suggest you pay a visit to the official support forum and voice your discontent there. Nobody here has influence on e-on's choice of pricing policy.

• agiel - www.linfa.net

what? Do you think it is fair? If you do not, or if anyone else does not, then we should all pay a visit to the official support forum and voice the discrepancy in upgrade pricing. Maybe there are more price deals to come out. I thought there was a pre-order deal last time for the upgrade. We all have a slight influence on e-on's price policy especially as a collective whole. But I know what you are driving at. On a separate note: Some of the new features look awesome like motion import in action. I'd love to try that out in HDV.

sigh I don't think it is fair but at the same time, I am not going to lose my sleep because a handful of users will save $120 by using this offer. Really - how many people have vue 4 pro and never upgraded to vue 5 or vue 5 infinite ?

• agiel - www.linfa.net

$120.00 if a lot of money for some us.......glad some can just throw away money.

It is a lot for me being on a fixed income which isnt much.
  I like Vue because I can not work and it gives me something to pass the time when on computer. :)

 We are not all professionals and if it hadn't been for the hobbiest where would Vue be today. :)
I hope they remember the ones who got them to where they are at now and not get a big head because of catering to the professionals. :)

ïÏøçö

Quote - I don't have the details on how it will be implemented, but they did say it would be ok to install the same copy of Vue on a desktop and laptop as long as you don't use both of them at the same time.

Agiel,

Just a note of thanks for your help in all of this, and your patience with us all. I'm sure we all would like to be there in Boston with you!

I agree with you, and think the Vue4 upgrade for $179 is probably just a marketing oversight, and will be fixed soon by e-on. I would hope they would consider having a small presence on one of these forums during times like this-- as it would certainly help all of us better understand the new product and pricing strategies...and give you a bit of a break.

Thanks again :-)
Chipp

 

$120 is a lot of money for me too. But I already upgraded from my version of vue 4 pro. The only thing I can do is to upgrade from vue 5 infinite. Demanding from e-on to prevent a handful of people to upgrade from their copy will not help me save money.

• agiel - www.linfa.net

I appreciate your patience as well :)...I can't believe it doesn't bother you that some are going thru the loophole....you think this is fair? I sure as hell don't.

I know you have no say so & can't help - but the silence of EON is beyond deafening - although we should be used to this kind of p/r debacle. It's not the 1st time.

And people wonder why everyone gets worked up :glare:

This is a perfect example. No offical from EON has responded at EON forums either...this is why the drama continues.  Very sad :(

I think ALL these software companies need to send there employess back to P/R 101. As of now, they all get an F!!!!! And not just EON...ALL of them.

 

 

 

This is a concern to me, I don’t have a problem purchasing an upgrade but why should users of V5i have to pay $299 and users of Vue 4 pro only have to pay $179? This would make sense if it were the other way around.

This makes me feel that E-on does not value my business, this also sends me a message that E-on will give you better pricing if you don’t upgrade to every new version.

I hope this is an oversight and will be corrected soon.

btw - I have posted this on E-on's fourm as well.

Since I started all this, there's one thing I still don't understand"

From what I've read here, e-on's nodelocking allows a hobbyist to run V6I on more than one computer but only on one computer at a time. E-on "knows" that the user is using V6I on only one computer. What if one of the computers is never on the internet? I have a PC on the internet and a laptop that is never online.

Does the nodelocking license require that, for a hobbyist to install and then utilize V6I on more than one computer, both computers need to be on the internet? Should I not bother getting V6I if my plan as a hobbyist is to install it on two computers, one of which I want to keep off line?

gannon

Ditto the same gannon. :)

ïÏøçö

We will have to wait until Vue 6 installation mechanism is more clear. I don't think it will make a difference. Look at Poser. It does have a 'node locking' mechanism - if you have a network, it will check if the same copy is running on it already. But at the same time, it runs just fine without a network.

• agiel - www.linfa.net

I have absolutely no problem with the Poser "node-lock" scheme.  If this is what e-on is using, then it's no big deal.

Again, thanks for your information and patience agiel!

Well I don't think I'll bother purchasing an upgrade until this sorry mess has been sorted properly!

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

Two quick points...

It amazes me how people begrudge someone else getting a better deal  than themselves.  The nature of special offers - be it an upgrade price, an introductory price, buy one get one free or whatever is they are all inherently unfair to someone who doesn't qualify.  There is a school of thought that says the only fair pricing policy is that everyone pays exactly the same price.  Another school has it that the buyer should never be told a price and should make an offer which the vendor then accepts or rejects.

Can anyone blame e-on for not exposing their staff to outbursts that are appearing on some of the boards.  First which forums should they be on.  Renderosity,  Cornucopia or Daz? The German,  French, India language ones that have posts about Vue?  The one in an oriental character set I can't read that google tells me has posts about Vue?  That little forum over there in the shadows with two users who incompetently screen scrape content from other  Vue forums to try to look busy?  I for one would much rather they spent their time making Vue 6 (and Vue 5 to) the best product they can and that they gave out the information at one location (their web site) in order to avoid confusion, missinterpretation and missrepresentation.

impworks | vue news blog | twitter | pinterest

Activation schemes are usually bad news for a company, because they just piss off their user base without having much real benefit in terms of increased sales. I recall the loss of goodwill Curious Labs suffered when they announced Poser 5 would have activation - which they subsequently had to withdraw from.

It may work for a company like Microsoft because they have a monopolistic position and don't need the goodwill of anyone. It would be unwise for e-on to go down that path, but from what agiel says, it doesn't seem they are intending to.

impish - I don't think the problem is someone else getting a better price, the problem is the supporters of the current release of V5i having to pay more then someone who hasn't upgraded for while. I am use to getting a cheaper upgrade path if I have the current version, I don't think I have ever paid more then someone who has an older version this doesn’t make sense. Usually when there is special pricing it is first offered to registered users of the current line of a companies software - then the upgrade offers come out.

 

I don’t have a problem paying for an upgrade, I do have a problem with paying more because I have a current version.

E-On is responsible to keep their uses informed and to answerer questions and concerns after all they are the vender and we are the customer, it show disrespect when you leave your customers to speculate. Maybe a public forum isn’t the best place to answer these questions.

**
**

Hi Mark,

Thank-you for your thoughtful message. A couple of points to your two quick points.

I. Most companies understand the most efficient opportunity for them to market new products is to existing customers-- you've probably heard the term 'low hanging fruit' before. This market is easily targeted (user registration emails, forums, newsletters and websites), and the adoption rate is much higher than any other form of marketing. Most companies cherish this opportunity, and the users who go along with it.

So, my first point is e-on should recognize the value of their current customer base and create their pricing accordingly.

As a new (1+ yrs) user of Vue, it was only because of their customer's stunning images (like Eran Dinur's) that I purchased the product in the first place (Esprit) and then only because of the helpful souls here that I upgraded it to Vue-I.

If Vue doesn't recognize this fact, then they will lose customers, or even worse, look like a company who doesn't know what they're doing. All said, there are companies who successfully continually treat their customer base with little respect (Apple and MS come to mind). This typically happens in a environment where there is little to no competition. That is not the case with Vue.

II. Regarding your second point, about Vue's visibility to the community. I'm not sure which came first, the chicken or the egg.  If you ever get a chance, saunter over to either Nevercenter's Silo3D or Luxology's Modo forums. Both companies carry on active dialog with their customers, and very little bickering goes on. Is it because the products are 'better' than Vue? I don't think so. A little bit of attention to paying customers can go a long way. I notice whenever Steve Bell takes a moment to respond over in e-on's forum, things go better right away. There will always be the malcontent, but many times the community polices itself regarding these individuals.

Customers are Vue's best and greatest asset. The sooner they embrace that concept fully, the more success will come to them. Just imagine if Vue's president posted a note here saying:

"While we love all our customers, we also understand the current 3D market to be a very difficult one to survive in, let alone thrive in. As much as we would like to reward all of you with a super low cost upgrade to Vue 6, it doesn't allow us to generate enough sustaining revenue to continue improving our product. In the past, taking the 'low road' has cost other 3D landscape programs future development  resources and eventually the forced sale of the franchise. I know we and our customers want Vue to be around for the long time!

So, our pricing model is based upon what we need to continue to create great products for all of you. From time to time, we will be announcing specials, both on our website and Cornucopia. All of these will be mentioned in our Cornucopia newsletter, so if you're not subscribed, please do so if you're interested.

Best regards, Nicholas"

I believe this straightforward approach would do a lot to ease tensions about the current pricing strategies. Being honest and straightforward is never a bad thing.

-Chipp

 

Orio, On an aside not sure why it would be different for a laptop, but I have a personal copy installed on my machine at home and at work single serial number, 2 machines, which is possible and allowed according to the Adobe rep I spoke with when I purchased CS2. We also have a work copy loaded on 2 machines in the same office. As long as you don't have both copies open at the same time or are not connected to the network, we're OK. You might want to give Adobe a call and see if they can tell you how to get authentication for you lap top unless they are telling us both 2 different stories. Good luck, g.

Good public relations is the best friend a company can have if they intend to stay in business very long..:)
 I think a few of the software vendors need a wakeup call. :)

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Hm, I got a 2nd copy of V5I when I bought Lightwave, thus I have two copies of V5I, one on each of my PCs. I love this because I can work on either one and have render going on the other. One PC is mostly NET/gaming, other art, also I can use different apps at a time, like model in Rhino while other one renders Vue, or work on two different Vue scenes on the two PCs.

They are connected on a network. I don't want to have to pay for TWO copies of Vue6 upgrades though, so I can continue doing this. scratches head, bit confused.

:)

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Please impish, it amazes me how some people defend corporations before they defend people who are not receiving fair deals acting as if they know better than the rest of us with a lame rationalization and some made up scenario.  As if everyone at e-on is working to make the code for vue 6.

But if you choose to represent corporations with their team of lawyers because you think they need more help, then I disagree.

I also think that you are turning this problem into a fight with your ideas on who is begrudging.  It is name calling and puts people with a real concern on the defensive and I take offense at this.

Even the moderator thought the pricing was unfair. 

Chipp:  That they are offering an upgrade price suggests e-on are aware of supporting existing customers.  This situation strikes me as being one of someone not spotting a loop hole in the pricing policy as it gets more complex rather than a deliberate attempt to snub those of us who have been using Vue for a long time.  Mistakes get made.  Some of the posters in some of the threads about this (not necessarily this one) seem to work from the position that e-on have set out to snub them through this pricing.

I once took a course taught by a guy with a long career in PR who specialised in sorting out corporate disasters.  He told us that sometimes it is a good policy to put your top people out front and centre but you should only do this if the situation is right.  Sometimes it can be the worst strategy, not the best one to follow; sometimes it can fan flames rather than calm things down.  Unfortunately, he said, usually only time tells which was the right way.

CobraEye:  I’m sorry you don’t like my holding a different point of view to you or to the majority of posters.  I’m also sorry you try to reduce my argument to cheap jibes about made up scenario in my argument or lame rationalizations.  Nor did I claim to know better than anyone else.  I’m stating my personal point of view and trying to explain where I’m coming from.  My point of view differs from yours.  I hope my having a different point of view won’t stop anyone expressing their point of view.

Software companies are made up of real people.  Real people make mistakes sometimes.  E-on isn’t a huge corporation as far as I can tell.  Their booth in the photos of Sigraph doesn’t look like the booth of a huge corporation.  I have seen no army of lawyers throwing their corporate weight around.  I’m not defending them because I think they need defending.  I just put a different point of view.  Sometimes life isn’t fair.  Sometimes other people get better deals than I do. 

I’m going to have to pay the V5I to V6I upgrade price along with anyone else in that boat.  V5I has given me a good value for money. V6I has features I'm prepared to pay the upgrade cost for.  To me that is what matters if i choose to upgrade.  Not that someone else is getting it cheaper.

impworks | vue news blog | twitter | pinterest

Mark,

I think we're both on the same page here. I, too, believe the pricing issue is probably a mishap, with someone there just missing the point-- and I don't think e-on is out to snub customers.

While it's probably wise not to put the top guy out there in a disaster situation, I believe a few words from a 'leader' is appropriate to the community on occasion. It certainly works for other small companies.

For me, $299 for a version which I can run on both my laptop and home desktop is a no-brainer. Especially if they release a fairly robust version. I have to say I'm very impressed with the quality feature set of the planned upgrade. The only 2 things missing from my point of view would be:

1. No 16-bit support for terrains (though not yet confirmed); and 2) Inability to 'start from scratch' builiding plants. Neither of these is a show stopper.

Thanks for your support in this community. I would like to think I might be able to release some Vue python scripts sometime in the future as well. I'm a pretty decent interface designer and could certainly give you a hand if/when you add GUI to your particle systems.

best, Chipp

 

Something odd happened with the fomating of my last post.  I have no idea why the font changes in the middle.  Weird.

Not certain about terrains either because there is mention of 16 bit image support.  Some of this stuff will come out in the wash.  I'd like to be able to scratch build plants but I wonder if solid growth isn't built but relies on algorithms that would make my head hurt if they gave me a way to make one.  I can't see why they wouldn't have opened it up by now if it was easy to do or at least offered a plug-in to do it.

I look forward to seeing what your scripts do.  I'm embarresed by how simple some of my offerings are.  I may well take you up on the offer of help with the GUI design once I know what the options will be in V6I.  While I was trained to build GUIs I've never done it in anger.  Something called the world wide web came along and took up the next 10 years of my life instead

impworks | vue news blog | twitter | pinterest

Impish, almost everyone sees the problem and if you want to minimize it for whatever reason fine by me. I've made my point. There is so much more going on here. The history of e-on and C3D is far more colorful then your summary tells. Dare we mention the bugs and features that do not work. Believe what you want. And please, spare me the condescending life lessons. Also, I don't care that you have a different opinion. I care about the words you use like "begrudge" that claim you know people's motives and feelings. And then if you do know their feelings why do you have the right to judge and dismiss them. That's what bothers me. If you stated your arguement in a less judgemental way this wouldn't have happened.

Sheesh...what is all this overt sensitivity anyways?

A fair price is what you are willing to pay in the democratic marketplace. A fair price is what a company can charge based on the demand within that democratic marketplace.

There is no ethical issues concerning e-on pricing schemes -- just bland marketing.  You either vote for their product or find a different candidate to vote for.  Since Carrara5.1 (which I have) has most of Vue6Is features, I'm not going to bite the upgrade -- at least not for awhile.  Between Carrara, Hexagon2, and Vue5I, I can do pretty much anything I need to do.

Please... keep the personal attacks and controversy out of the forum or I will be forced to lock this thread and move this conversation elsewhere.

• agiel - www.linfa.net

agiel - as per your request I will not respond futher in this thread.  I hope no one will choose to take that lack of response in any other way than as a response to the forum moderators request.

impworks | vue news blog | twitter | pinterest

As has been my experience since Vue 4...

E-on likes to run a "Late Buyer" promotion which historically has lead to cheaper prices than what is currently on their website. It's not unlikely that you'll see prices reduced to something less then currently are temporarily.

As for myself, since I can't buy "Vue 6" (any edition) now I'm waiting until the "Late Buyer" promotion shows up before I get to worked up about anything. If  "Vue 6" shows up before then, it'll likely be issue prone and still worth waiting on.

BTW, this is quoted from the E-on Website...

The complete pricing policy, including a late buyer upgrade offer will be available later this summer.

Regarding the upgrade pricing - what EVERYBODY seemed to have forgotten, is that E-On has offered special upgrade pricing prior to the new version being released.

If everyone could please refrain from whinning about the $299 upgrade price for now, you'll probably receive a 30-45 day special upgrade price for VUE6 just prior to it shipping.  I seem to remember that I paid something like US$149 to upgrade from VUE4PRO to VUE5i.

There is no reason why E-ON would not offer a similar deal for the existing owners just prior to release.   Almost 70 posts based on 'whinning' is overdoing it a bit.

No offence offered nor taken.  Nuff said.

Surveyman, that's "near" exactly what I was attempting to get across to people here in the my post above yours.

Everybody calm down...
Vue 4 upgrade paths are blocked out now. The deal didn't exist anyway- It was only for Vue 5 users upgrading to another version of Vue 5.

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Quote - Vue 4 upgrade paths are blocked out now. The deal didn't exist anyway- It was only for Vue 5 users upgrading to another version of Vue 5.

Wow, you're right.  Am I ever glad I took advantage of the Aug. 3rd deadline to upgrade/sidegrade from my Vue 4 d-Esprit to V5I.  A few days ago, that deal did exist.  By doing so, I am eligible to receive V6I for free.

Perhaps there will be another chance as I've read in various places talk of some "late upgrade" offer being offered closer to V6I's release.  Not being rich, I didn't want to take the gamble.  I hope I did the right thing but since it's done, I can't worry myself over it.

I dare you, while there is still time, to have a magnificent obsession. --William Danforth

Quote - > Quote - Vue 4 upgrade paths are blocked out now. The deal didn't exist anyway- It was only for Vue 5 users upgrading to another version of Vue 5.

Wow, you're right.  Am I ever glad I took advantage of the Aug. 3rd deadline to upgrade/sidegrade from my Vue 4 d-Esprit to V5I.  A few days ago, that deal did exist.  By doing so, I am eligible to receive V6I for free.

Perhaps there will be another chance as I've read in various places talk of some "late upgrade" offer being offered closer to V6I's release.  Not being rich, I didn't want to take the gamble.  I hope I did the right thing but since it's done, I can't worry myself over it.

No- now you CAN'T even upgrade to Vue 5 from 4!

In This Twilight- My FIRST public poser work in 2 years!
Also the reason why I endorse postwork (:D)