i haven't worked with v3 for very long but the more i do the more i notice vivki 3 doesn't have many curves..ahem in other words you can give her bigger breasts but giving her that hourglass figure seems a bit difficult for me for some reason...take a look at progs gallery, whatever morphs hes using i would like to get my paws on.....can someone tell me where i can get morphs like these?....

 

thanks guys,

 

d.c.

Have you tried GND2 by blackhearted and rio or the new Kielo2 by As Shanim?

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

I really love this one called "Dawn"

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=37468

DAZ has a morph called Star that makes V3 into a Marilyn Monroe.

Fact is, Vickie is not meant to be a female human but a teenboy fantasy, like the half-starved "heroines" in his comic books and their meatpuppet avatars in real-life La-La Land. If you want real people, explore Judy, Jessi, and Miki. Judy especially commits the sin of being built like teenboy's mother rather than Britney Aguilera and the CFMs. Netherworks has some morphs that soften Jessi a bit and with a little nosing about, you can find similar things for Miki.

M

Prog uses mostly his own morphs.  Check out his store.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I love the textures everyone is doing for Miki, she's already gorgeous, but, there are some stunning textures and face morphs here at Rosity.

I just got "Roxanne for Miki" by Freja, she is a knockout!  Freja did a wonderful job on this semi-new and highly unused new beauty.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=49301#ProductReviews

There's also a set of magnets available at RuntimeDNA for giving V3 more of a pin-up shape.

My gosh! this is so true! she sort of reminds me of those large nosed goons on the popeye cartoons! I hate vicky so much that it takes much energy to try to work with her. long shapeless legs. and stephanie...what was the point? her proportions dont seem that far off from vickie's to me.
Additionally, daz has told me that they wont do original non-white characters so I work with miki and koji.   Blackhearted and Rio have worked wonders with realistic proportion, does anyone know what program they are using? ive heard that most programs change the polygon count of the part so that they dont match up.

Quote - ...Additionally, daz has told me that they wont do original non-white characters so I work with miki and koji ....

Really nice of them. I wonder why? Maybe they don't want to seem as if they're following behind Content Paradise... Still, there are other options beside Asian characters. Guess they don't see the market in it. All I can say is, thank God for custom morphs & texture packages or else the whole of the Poser world would look the same.

Check out linkdink's gallery for pics of a very curvy gal!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?username=linkdink

Quote - > Quote - ...Additionally, daz has told me that they wont do original non-white characters so I work with miki and koji ....

Really nice of them. I wonder why? Maybe they don't want to seem as if they're following behind Content Paradise... Still, there are other options beside Asian characters. Guess they don't see the market in it. All I can say is, thank God for custom morphs & texture packages or else the whole of the Poser world would look the same.

Yes, They told me that it was much easier to turn a caucasion character into an "ethnic" character than the other way around. I myself find that these results are far from authentic. so i rejoiced when miki and koji became available. anyway, this attitude, as well as thier disregard on this issue has revealed to me a great need to start developing a couple meshes or at least better morphs on my own. as im sure that any future daz products will be more of the same. currently im playing with z brush and mudbox for morph targets, but am concerned with polygon changes. any advice would be appreciated.

Quote - Check out linkdink's gallery for pics of a very curvy gal!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?username=linkdink

WOW! this artist has become my hero! thats what im talking about! CURVE CITY!!

Attached Link: http://www.daz3d.com/shop.php?op=itemdetails&item=2968

New Generation V3 2005 (Daz)has custom morphs that can really change and reshape the body. They are not results of dial spinning but completely new morphs that go way beyound the standard morph packs. The problem is with Daz's restrictive policy on the promo images. They show the face/head but cannot show the full figure at it's best. I very raerly rave about a product, but have to say New Gen is what V3 should have been from the start. It's a shame more people have not picked up on it yet, but I guess it's due to the lack of full figure images.

SWAMP

@Swamp: Would you happen to have any images of the New gen. figure so I can have a look please!

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

thefixer, i dont have any pics right now, but i can tell you the waist/hip morphs are SO MUCH BETTER than V3... i always hate using WaistNarrow on V3 because it doesnt make a nice transition to her hips. You can also change the height of her pelvis.

lots more small facial morphs too for more control.

if v3newgen and CDI's rayne were combined together... you'd have a pretty much limitless model to morph aannything out of.

Thats something else you guys might wanna check out, is CDI  (Capsces @ DAZ) morphs.. she's got Aiko ("Kioki"), Michael ("Brom"), and Victoria ("Rayne").. even MilBaby ("chubblies") for sale at daz. Boopsie for the GIRL too!

V3-NewGen : 3 dials here, "body tone" ,"crotch raise" , "hips high", all FBM

This looks nice, but usually the problem with something like this is that it then becomes nearly impossible to get clothing to fit.

Thanks alot SWAMP & vexiphne for the info on V3 New Generation 2005, I'd seen this a while back but I had no idea it would be this good! I think I'll buy this as I really like to morph V3 alot to create my own figures, this would be a great addition.

does that product include morphs to give shape to the calves? the phrase "legs that go all the way to.... doesnt mean much if they are shaped like soda straws. lol!

'Curvy' is such a subjective term. I'm not a big fan of the Mil figures for one reason or another, but I have found V3NG to be pretty morphable. Her facial options are cool (some very nice ethnic morphs too) and a lot of additional body shapes. The one area I always have problems with is the neck and collar/shoulder area - hard to expand the mass in those areas (I've used magnets in my pics on the neck). I also find using pretty much any scaling on V3 a nightmare on her rigging for causing mesh deformations. It's one area of flexibility that I'll be looking at very closely if I'm to be drawn toward V4. I like my larger body shapes.

 

PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.

                                      www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com

Quote - They told me that it was much easier to turn a caucasion character into an "ethnic" character than the other way around.

Translation: It's easy to make a black person that white people like out of a white person, but there's no way you can make a real black person look white. And only white people's opinions matter, of course.

Sheesh.
M

> Quote - i haven't worked with v3 for very long but the more i do the more i notice vivki 3 doesn't have many curves..ahem in other words you can give her bigger breasts but giving her that hourglass figure seems a bit difficult for me for some reason...take a look at progs gallery, whatever morphs hes using i would like to get my paws on.....can someone tell me where i can get morphs like these?.... > >   > > thanks guys, > >   > > d.c.

 

Dare I mention Ingenue Vickie (shown here), Glamorous Vickie and Glamorous Jessi?  They aren't morph package though, they are complete figures based on V3 (or P6 Jessi).  They avid the problem with morphed figues that clothing doesn't fit by having their own clothing line.  I also like to think they bend better than the figures they are based on...   ;-

 

 

 

Carodan those are really excellent Morphs! 

Have you considered releasing them to the public?  There aren't that many morphs out there for larger figures, and no offense to anyone who created BBW morphs, but yours are by far the most realistic I've seen.

I know I wouldn't hesitate to snap them up if they were available!

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

...there's no way you can make a real black person look white.

Dang, there goes my explanation of Michael Jackson..;) sorry, couldn't resist..;)

Between textures, mats, morphs etc., I don't see why anyone couldn't make anyone from anyone else, with the right tools..sort of like Jesse Helms' head on Raquel Welche's body...no, wait that was a nightmare I had once..;)

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

Quote - > Quote - They told me that it was much easier to turn a caucasion character into an "ethnic" character than the other way around.

Translation: It's easy to make a black person that white people like out of a white person, but there's no way you can make a real black person look white. And only white people's opinions matter, of course.

Sheesh.
M

 

Bullseye! I totally agree but didnt want to say, for fear of hijacking the thread....but i think this explains why when you do see a black character, you often get the blue eyes green eyes.... etc.

the asian characters made from daz figures are equally non authentic. heck! even the white female characters from vicki are more a vision of  that typical ideal of what many white seem to hold as ideal, verses more real proportions. (long long skinny legs and huge breast) recently full lips have been given the "ok" to have so now every other model is a jolie clone.

it is interesting how much better the black characters are that come from miki.

I dislike this term "ethnic" as if.... you have white, and then all others are a mutation thereof, instead of the opposite which is far more true. in any case, all im saying is that I love the poser community, the poser forum members, but i hate vicki as well as the consistent short sitedness of daz.. I do hope that eventually someone will get the point and create more authentic figures eventually. or at least a mesh that is much more flexible in this regard.

Quote - ...there's no way you can make a real black person look white.
Dang, there goes my explanation of Michael Jackson..;) sorry, couldn't resist..;)

Between textures, mats, morphs etc., I don't see why anyone couldn't make anyone from anyone else, with the right tools..sort of like Jesse Helms' head on Raquel Welche's body...no, wait that was a nightmare I had once..;)

Mike doesnt look white. he looks martian! lol! on the other hand ........tanning booths and products collagen lip injections are a multi billion dolar biz these days.

 I think i would agree with you....provided that the right morphs were available. texture maps alone wont work, that is the status quo.

Quote - 'Curvy' is such a subjective term. I'm not a big fan of the Mil figures for one reason or another, but I have found V3NG to be pretty morphable. Her facial options are cool (some very nice ethnic morphs too) and a lot of additional body shapes. The one area I always have problems with is the neck and collar/shoulder area - hard to expand the mass in those areas (I've used magnets in my pics on the neck). I also find using pretty much any scaling on V3 a nightmare on her rigging for causing mesh deformations. It's one area of flexibility that I'll be looking at very closely if I'm to be drawn toward V4. I like my larger body shapes.

I think you have worked wonders with your BBW charactor. magnets are alot of nonfun though

You are right, "Curvy" is a subjective term...but not as subjective as "legs all the way to heaven" yet  the latter term isnt usually confused. linkdink's characters are what i have in mind, full curvy calves and thighs...it is actually more a ratio or proportion issue. though his charaters tend to be heavy.. if you made them slimmer, they would still be very curvy. maybe if V4 was a more realistic height to begin with..say 5 foot six?.... instead of what appears to be nearly 6 feet???? speaking of morphs... wouldnt it be cool to get so good foot morphs as well?wit correctly shaped toes? lol! guess i better get to work!

.

Acadia - thanks. I hadn't intended to put these morphs out (TBH I don't really know how to for V3). If you have V3NG though, I could send you the dial values and a face pose file. The magnets could be saved as a seperate prop pose.

belalaruue - it is one of my bugbears with the Mil figures that their body parts scale horribly. It's been a feature of Apollo that I've enjoyed greatly, and that facilitates immense freedom with character creation. I think V3 does have a huge variety of forms in terms of the morphs and character sets available for her, but the scaling issue does limit her very much to her default proportions. We'll have to wait and see what options V4 has in terms of flexibility in this area.

RE - morphing ethnic variations (from Caucasian to Asian to African or whatever). When I look at a mesh of the density of a figure like V3 or James Hi Res, I just don't see what the issue is with creating morphs for any human variation. But then I'm no expert. I'm not saying it's easy, but then I wouldn't imaging creating an entirely new mesh specifically for an Asian head is either. It's one of the things I don't quite understand about the EF/CP strategy of having three seperate male figures of different ethnicity. It would make more sense to me to develop a neutral mesh based around the idea of accurately representing muscle and skin groups and then morphing those polygons and vertices into whatever shapes are required. Just my lay-person's view.

 

PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.

                                      www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com

I too am no expert... but I guess its what you are willing to accept as an "authentic" charactor. Daz seems to contradict its own unimesh policy. on the one hand it implies that its mesh can be made into other characters and thus ignores creating variety in its base model, yet it sees the need to create additional charactor mesh.....of exactly the same thing, for what purpose.....im not sure....

about EF/CL policy......I for one am  very happy with what they have done. Ive heard that they are a japanese company.......maybe this is why they get it. A "neutral" charactor doesnt mean a caucasion charactor. and as well, their proportions are not fantasy based. miki does have huge hands though! lol!  love those guys at E frontier!

Quote - DAZ has a morph called Star that makes V3 into a Marilyn Monroe.

Fact is, Vickie is not meant to be a female human but a teenboy fantasy, like the half-starved "heroines" in his comic books and their meatpuppet avatars in real-life La-La Land. If you want real people, explore Judy, Jessi, and Miki. Judy especially commits the sin of being built like teenboy's mother rather than Britney Aguilera and the CFMs. Netherworks has some morphs that soften Jessi a bit and with a little nosing about, you can find similar things for Miki.

M

Then you need to get out more. I know quite a few women that have the V3 "fantasy" look in real life. Granted it's not the norm, but it's not pure fantasy either. Don't know where you get this idea since V3 is rather "normal" (see dumpy) looking out of the box

regards, Michael

Regards, Michael

My DeviantArt page

Quote - > Quote - DAZ has a morph called Star that makes V3 into a Marilyn Monroe.

Fact is, Vickie is not meant to be a female human but a teenboy fantasy, like the half-starved "heroines" in his comic books and their meatpuppet avatars in real-life La-La Land. If you want real people, explore Judy, Jessi, and Miki. Judy especially commits the sin of being built like teenboy's mother rather than Britney Aguilera and the CFMs. Netherworks has some morphs that soften Jessi a bit and with a little nosing about, you can find similar things for Miki.

M

Then you need to get out more. I know quite a few women that have the V3 "fantasy" look in real life. Granted it's not the norm, but it's not pure fantasy either. Don't know where you get this idea since V3 is rather "normal" (see dumpy) looking out of the box

regards, Michael

Where I get the idea, is by looking at what normal women look like. perhaps if YOU got out more, YOU would know that. As far as  "dumpy" is concerned, in my world, the word is used to define a slightly rotund and somewhat overweight figure....something that vicky is most certainly not.

Regards to you as well, Bela

Quote - V3 is rather "normal" (see dumpy) looking out of the box

regards, Michael

Wow, do you realize that you have insulted more than 1/2 of the female population with that statement? Not all of us are "glamour dolls", and most of us are just plain old "normal", "ordinary", "average".....  dumpy kind of girls

And I for one am happy to be classed in that "normal/ordinary" catagory, and see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Well, I decided to buy the V3 New Generation 2005 (Version 2) from Daz & create something with these new morphs.  I've got to say they are brilliant, I now have more versatility with the face & body. I wanted to create a character with the Tailgunner outfit, with these new morphs I could have my woman with fuller thighs while keeping her waist & hips just right. I also had more options when it came to doing the eyes & the mouth, I'm really pleased with these morphs. The hourglass figure should be easier to accomplish now, the waist & hip area is great to work with, I aim to do more work here.

If anyone fancies a look at what I've done so far you can check out a couple of renders here:

http://excalibur.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1280954

http://excalibur.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1280958

Quote - Well, I decided to buy the V3 New Generation 2005 (Version 2) from Daz & create something with these new morphs.  I've got to say they are brilliant, I now have more versatility with the face & body. I wanted to create a character with the Tailgunner outfit, with these new morphs I could have my woman with fuller thighs while keeping her waist & hips just right. I also had more options when it came to doing the eyes & the mouth, I'm really pleased with these morphs. The hourglass figure should be easier to accomplish now, the waist & hip area is great to work with, I aim to do more work here.

If anyone fancies a look at what I've done so far you can check out a couple of renders here:

http://excalibur.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1280954

http://excalibur.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1280958

Hi Stormchaser! that is some excellent work! have you gotten a chance to sample the thigh and calf morphs yet? I hearing that there is a big diff between verion 2 and the original.

belalarue - Thanks for your comments, I intend to do some more work with V3NG later.

If I get time later on today I'll try & post some of the differences between the two packages, with picture samples if I can.  From what I've meddled with so far, you can do more realistic work with the thighs & hips, I've yet to really delve into the calf work, I'll see what I can do.

Quote - When I look at a mesh of the density of a figure like V3 or James Hi Res, I just don't see what the issue is with creating morphs for any human variation.

Another bullseye. The problem with the unimesh is not that it can't make authentic blacks, Asians, and Indians, but that DAZ can't. Those of us with modelling software and some talent can create the morphs, but DAZ is so ethnocentric that they don't think of it. And the folks who want to morph V3 into another racial type can't get the morphs to do it with unless someone creates them.

I love it that "looks like someone's mother" got translated into "dumpy." What can I say? The last three great loves of my life were mothers with three children and beautiful from head to toe. In comparison to the potty-book fantasies that pass for "ideal" women today, Marilyn Monroe was "real." And I have nothing against knockouts like Jim B's Glams; just don't try to tell me that they are what women should look like.

VIckie is the Rainbo bread of 3D, and about as interesting.
M

Re ethnic variations with the V3 figure, recently I created an African woman, OK she's a sort of fantasy type but I think she looks African which was my aim. Alot of work went into her but I feel the end result was worth it. Shamara is here if you want to see an example:

http://excalibur.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1281102

http://excalibur.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1279812

I'm thinking about creating maybe a Japanese girl in the future (beyond the normal morph of the Japanese dials), maybe the extra morphs from the V3NG girl will help me.

stormchsaer - I'd say that's a very convincing African morph. Definitely more than just an impression. The standard morphs even with V3NG are lacking at times, but your example shows that the V3 mesh does have the detail and structure for good morphs to be developed.

 

PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.

                                      www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com

I've briefly set up an example of the different morphs you can achieve with V3NG over V3. The main improvement for me is the pelvic area, you can raise or lower her hips, even the crotch area. I find this good for two reasons, 1: your figure can look more realistic as women have different proportinate levels of leg/hip height to torso length, 2: If you do raise the hip area it gives the appearance of the woman having longer legs, so no more having to stretch the legs & having the props no longer fit properly.  The example here shows V3NG with a raised pelvic area. You might find the changes subtle at first, but they are significant, especially if you were to refine it even more.

If you look closely you'll see that the V3NG has much better realism in the waist/hip/thigh area, if you want the hourglass figure the curves are much better. I tended to find with V3 that the hips tended to jut out wrongly if you went too far with them.

I've also shown here V3NG with a 'V' torso, this is good for pin-ups or if you added weight here & around the waist for the more wholesome woman. I've pulled the breasts down here, without the natural dial, to start the chest area off with a good base for more realsim.

Apparently, & strangely, there are no new calf morphs, unless I've missed them. I was OK with the originals so to me personally it may not be a big issue.

When I delve into this more I intend to create a more rounded woman & also the perfect hourglass.

A further note, you can also add the full morphs from V3 to V3NG so you have the full compliment.

@stormchaser: I really like your outcome of the character from the two links that you posted. The thing that I liked most about it was the facial expressions that she had. Keep up those awesome morphs I'd love to see some more, so I'm going to add you to my favorite artists list so that I can keep tabs on what you're doing.

 

@Jim Burton: Does standard V3 clothing fit Ingenue Vickie?

 

-James

Quote -

Fact is, Vickie is not meant to be a female human but a teenboy fantasy, like the half-starved "heroines" in his comic books and their meatpuppet avatars in real-life La-La Land.
M

 

This is not a fact. This is opinion.

Problem with most women is that they see thelmselves as the norm of what woman looks like, and that's a hilarious simplification. Scandinavian to Mediterranean, Indonesian to Japanese, Amazonian to Indian, so many different African types (Africa is a continent, not a small nation where everyone looks alike! What a simplification!)

Where's the norm? Some are eight heads tall, some five and a half, some are skinny, some are fat, some have large breasts, some small, some blue eyes, some brown, some are hairy, some not, some are pale, some tanned, some freckled... 

There is no "norm". Only identification. Identification schemed by consumer manipulators. And who for heaven's sake can identify or be shocked or insulted by a soulless digital mesh?

I think it's a silly thing to simplify creations to magazine-level psychological terminology, style "this artists loves big boobs because he's got a mother complex". Let everyone create and express themselves, see the beauty in the creation and accept that others do not think like you, feel like you or are like you.

Quote - Problem with most women is that they see thelmselves as the norm of what woman looks like, and that's a hilarious simplification. Scandinavian to Mediterranean, Indonesian to Japanese, Amazonian to Indian, so many different African types (Africa is a continent, not a small nation where everyone looks alike! What a simplification!)

Where's the norm? Some are eight heads tall, some five and a half, some are skinny, some are fat, some have large breasts, some small, some blue eyes, some brown, some are hairy, some not, some are pale, some tanned, some freckled... 

There is no "norm". Only identification. Identification schemed by consumer manipulators. And who for heaven's sake can identify or be shocked or insulted by a soulless digital mesh?

I think it's a silly thing to simplify creations to magazine-level psychological terminology, style "this artists loves big boobs because he's got a mother complex". Let everyone create and express themselves, see the beauty in the creation and accept that others do not think like you, feel like you or are like you.

when it comes to characters spawned by vicki, there is defiantely a norm lol!

Quote -   This is not a fact. This is opinion.

If you had lived in Happy Valley for seventeen years, you too would be entitled to call it a fact.

Karr's innocence in the Ramsey case was a fact before the Boulder Buffoons discovered it.

:) M

Quote - Problem with most women is that they see thelmselves as the norm of what woman looks like, and that's a hilarious simplification.

You are a brave probably male person. I'm not convinced that "most women" have a problem, myself. And certainly if they do, that isn't it. If anything, the ones with the problem have the opposite trouble: They think that NOT looking like them is normal. It's called "low self esteem." And for the record, I don't find people's problems "hilarious."

Quote -
There is no "norm". Only identification. Identification schemed by consumer manipulators. And who for heaven's sake can identify or be shocked or insulted by a soulless digital mesh?

This is missing the point pretty hilariously. (What is your problem?) We are not shocked and insulted by the mesh. We look at the mesh and find its implications unpleasant. "Here is another man who thinks a woman should be measured by the weight of her breasts," for example. It isn't the mesh that offends, it's the person who made it. Being offended by the mesh is mere synecdoche.

Quote -
I think it's a silly thing to simplify creations to magazine-level psychological terminology, style "this artists loves big boobs because he's got a mother complex". Let everyone create and express themselves, see the beauty in the creation and accept that others do not think like you, feel like you or are like you.

On the one hand, I agree with you in theory. In practice, I am less persuaded. I can find Caravaggio's nude boys beautiful and still be repulsed by the pederast mind that created them and even more repulsed when the images are obviously pedophile fantasies (his John the Baptist with Ram). And if some of us (as in the folks currently under a cloud at The Site That Must Not Be Named) find "beauty" in pictures of women being tortured to death, I don't think "acceptance" is an appropriate response.

M
 

jhustead - Thanks for those kind words, very appreciated.

I'm hoping to create some more soon, V3NG has definitely inspired me to be more creative.

Quote - @Jim Burton: Does standard V3 clothing fit Ingenue Vickie?

 

-James

Not dirrectly, but Wardrobe Wizard does support her.  In addittion to being a different shape from V3 she is also much smaller.

Quote - > Quote -   This is not a fact. This is opinion.

If you had lived in Happy Valley for seventeen years, you too would be entitled to call it a fact.

Karr's innocence in the Ramsey case was a fact before the Boulder Buffoons discovered it.

:) M

 

point 1: feeling entitled to label an supported supposition a fact doesn't make it so.

point 2 : the second element has what relevance?

Quote - > Quote - > Quote -   This is not a fact. This is opinion.

If you had lived in Happy Valley for seventeen years, you too would be entitled to call it a fact.
Karr's innocence in the Ramsey case was a fact before the Boulder Buffoons discovered it.
:) M

point 1: feeling entitled to label an supported supposition a fact doesn't make it so.

The Cartesian distinction between a fact and an opinion is dogma, not fact. All expressions of fact are tainted with opinion; many opinions are founded firmly and unshakably on facts. And let me interrupt this quibble to point out that most of us do not take the phrase, "Fact is" literally. But it the Cartesian world, literally is all you got.

Quote - point 2 : the second element has what relevance?

If I had said, "Karr is innocent" three days ago, that would have been sniffed at as "one person's opinion." And so it is. It also turned out to be a fact. Fancy that. Those of us who were not surprised must have luckier opinions than others. Our fact is independent of whether your opinion agrees with it.

M
 

Quote - We are not shocked and insulted by the mesh. We look at the mesh and find its implications unpleasant. "Here is another man who thinks a woman should be measured by the weight of her breasts," for example. It isn't the mesh that offends, it's the person who made it. Being offended by the mesh is mere synecdoche.

 

And thus -- we are to conclude that any and all meshes which resemble an attractive female form have been created by 3D Dr. Frankensteins with evil intentions.  They've made a beautiful Barbie-esque monster that's proceeded to devour the hallowed back alleys of Poser City.  She's stamping her well-arched foot down on top of the empty heads of despicable male persons who just can't keep themselves from gawping up at her -- because they're all a bunch of giggling little 6th-grade boys peeking at a dirty magazine on the elementary school playground. 

Do you hear that, all of you Victoria-philes out there?  You should hang your collective heads in abject shame.........you worthless, lousy examples of slimy, sordid human male debris.

That's what all of you are -- and this is a fact.  Because I have a fact: and I am entitled to it.

 

---

BTW - when is it that V4 supposed to be released again?  I just can't wait to get started rendering.

@ Jim Burton - you do excellent work.  I'm very much looking foward to seeing what you'll do with V4. :biggrin:

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Quote - > Quote - We are not shocked and insulted by the mesh. We look at the mesh and find its implications unpleasant. "Here is another man who thinks a woman should be measured by the weight of her breasts," for example. It isn't the mesh that offends, it's the person who made it. Being offended by the mesh is mere synecdoche.

 

And thus -- we are to conclude that any and all meshes which resemble an attractive female form have been created by 3D Dr. Frankensteins with evil intentions.  They've made a beautiful Barbie-esque monster that's proceeded to devour the hallowed back alleys of Poser City.  She's stamping her well-arched foot down on top of the empty heads of despicable male persons who just can't keep themselves from gawping up at her -- because they're all a bunch of giggling little 6th-grade boys peeking at a dirty magazine on the elementary school playground. 

Do you hear that, all of you Victoria-philes out there?  You should hang your collective heads in abject shame.........you worthless, lousy examples of slimy, sordid human male debris.

That's what all of you are -- and this is a fact.  Because I have a fact: and I am entitled to it.

 

---

BTW - when is it that V4 supposed to be released again?  I just can't wait to get started rendering.

@ Jim Burton - you do excellent work.  I'm very much looking foward to seeing what you'll do with V4. :biggrin:

I dont think the issue was that males who like Vicki are slimy.  .....OH! i get you, that was an attempt at humor...or rather sarcasm. anyway, back to point.....

Point 1... DAZ  once pushed this issue of an OMNImesh, electing to cover other "ethnicities" with maps and morphs....but then saw the need to produce additional meshes for ......pretty much the same thing.
Point 2...Not everyone wants to do Vicki type renders. so it would be great if she had better body morphs especially in the legs.
Point 3...No one is knocking anyone's preferences, just looking for more options. I love Blackhearted and Rio... and think Micki and Koji are right on time.

The number of long legged hollywood breasted Fairy/ vampire/tribal tattoo covered /jolie lipped characters resulting from vicki, makes me wonder, is this just what everyone likes? or simply a lack of flexibility in the base character?
so...........I ask the question again,(sarcasm not needed.. doesnt render very well) does anyone have any suggestions on  generating body morphs for this character? preferably  an external program that would  not cause polygon matching issues.

Quote - Point 3...No one is knocking anyone's preferences, just looking for more options. I love Blackhearted and Rio... and think Micki and Koji are right on time.

You might not have been knocking anyone else's preferences.  But I wouldn't say that "no one" was.  Some others quite clearly were.

Quote - The number of long legged hollywood breasted Fairy/ vampire/tribal tattoo covered /jolie lipped characters resulting from vicki, makes me wonder, is this just what everyone likes? or simply a lack of flexibility in the base character?

It's not what everyone likes -- but it's what a lot of people like.  And it sells more products in proportion to public taste.  Most merchants will tell you this.  That's why the Marketplace looks like it does.  It's not really complicated.......but some try to make it complicated.  Primarily because the prevailing taste doesn't happen to match their own.

Quote - so...........I ask the question again,(sarcasm not needed.. doesnt render very well) does anyone have any suggestions on  generating body morphs for this character?

Please note that the sarcasm wasn't directed at you.  And I'm glad that you spotted the 'attempt' at humor.  Some don't quite manage to catch the fact that such a post isn't meant to be taken literally.

Don't get me wrong -- I have no objections whatsoever to ethnic figures; "ordinary" figures; figures showing various types of real-world human deformities; figures body-morphed in every possible way.  About the only types of figures that I ignore (not object to) are 'toon figures -- because I'm not a big 'toon fan.  However: I have nothing against those who are.

My runtime is filled with ethnic characters of every type.  The more variety that I have: the better that I like it.  That's great with me.

But what I strongly object to are the attempts that one sees from time to time to attack both the motives and the maturity of others who prefer to render attractive women in their scenes.  Or to attack the motives of certain companies who provide the community with attractive female models -- as if that were a social crime.  Yes, I object to those things very much.  But I especially object to attempts to shame us into worshipping at the altar of the modern-day secular deity of political correctness.

Others might wish to be self-consciously PC.  I prefer to be self-consciously UN-PC.

Everyone has their individual tastes & preferences -- and on this subject: that's great.  I'll never call your motives into question.  Not once.

Sarcasm only renders properly where it's appropriate.  And to direct it at you would be wrong.

---

As far as your central theme is concerned -- I'd suggest going over to Artzone & taking a look at V4.  She should be out soon.  I believe that she'll end up proving to be far more morphable than V3 ever dreamed of being.  And that'll be a good thing for everybody.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote -   This is not a fact. This is opinion.

If you had lived in Happy Valley for seventeen years, you too would be entitled to call it a fact.
Karr's innocence in the Ramsey case was a fact before the Boulder Buffoons discovered it.
:) M

point 1: feeling entitled to label an supported supposition a fact doesn't make it so.

The Cartesian distinction between a fact and an opinion is dogma, not fact. All expressions of fact are tainted with opinion; many opinions are founded firmly and unshakably on facts. And let me interrupt this quibble to point out that most of us do not take the phrase, "Fact is" literally. But it the Cartesian world, literally is all you got.

Quote - point 2 : the second element has what relevance?

If I had said, "Karr is innocent" three days ago, that would have been sniffed at as "one person's opinion." And so it is. It also turned out to be a fact. Fancy that. Those of us who were not surprised must have luckier opinions than others. Our fact is independent of whether your opinion agrees with it.

M
 

 

A Cartesian?  Bah!!!
The empirical mode is much better, :D

Oh, Xen, Xen, I feel so chastened. I think I'll run over to WalMart and buy a laudatory biography of Dick Cheney, read it quickly, then tear up the pages and toss them into a pristine wilderness!

You are right, of course. People who think hooters the size of Australia are a feminine ideal are just guys with preferences. Holy Moses, who could think otherwise except a liberal traitor obsessed with political correctness???

Kissy kissy.
M

Quote - [

The number of long legged hollywood breasted Fairy/ vampire/tribal tattoo covered /jolie lipped characters resulting from vicki, makes me wonder, is this just what everyone likes? or simply a lack of flexibility in the base character?
so...........I ask the question again,(sarcasm not needed.. doesnt render very well) does anyone have any suggestions on  generating body morphs for this character? preferably  an external program that would  not cause polygon matching issues.

I think a lot of the people who do fantasy art grew up with artwork from people like
Vallejo, Olivia, Frazetta, and so are trying to emulate their work.  Look at some of
that art.  Victoria has the ideal figure to emulate those characters.  Posette, Judy,
and now Jessi just don't have the morphs right out of the box to create those women.
They aren't trying to create Ethel down the street driving the kids to soccer practice,
they are trying to create Esmeralda the Gypsy Princess.

Quote - Oh, Xen, Xen, I feel so chastened. I think I'll run over to WalMart and buy a laudatory biography of Dick Cheney, read it quickly, then tear up the pages and toss them into a pristine wilderness!

That's a unique idea for recycling paper.  Not to mention that it would provide superb nesting material for small animals.  Excellent enviromentally-friendly idea.

Quote - You are right, of course. People who think hooters the size of Australia are a feminine ideal are just guys with preferences. Holy Moses, who could think otherwise except a liberal traitor obsessed with political correctness???

Personally, I find that "hooters the size of Australia" look deformed.  There it is.  I'll go further and also grant you that gigantic "hooters" can be offered up to us as an entirely unhealthy obsession.  I certainly won't argue the point that women can be objectified.  But for that matter: so can men.  People of any type can be objectified.  And while admitting that various body types & the attraction to them are in the eye of the beholder -- it still remains that there is a generally accepted ideal.  This is the world & the reality that we live in.  Perfectly natural inclinations cannot be pointed to as a reason for condemnation.  Because if they are: then we are all equally condemned.  The problem here stems from an apparent desire to place everyone whose tastes follow the generally accepted ideal into a condemned category.

Personal taste is personal taste.

Attempts to force people to adhere to some other mode of thnking  will always fail in the end.  However: such attempts at enforced mental bondage contrary to free nature can and do sometimes succeed in making life into a living hell for many, many people.  Unless, of course, if one wishes to immigrate to North Korea.  While the topic that we are discussing here certainly doesn't rise anywhere near the level of North Korean regimentation -- it can be extended to show the same sort of principles in operation in a microcosm.

PC'ism is just another form of mental bondage.  And I'm a conservative with libertarian leanings.  So the smell of PC is offensive.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Quote - > Quote - Oh, Xen, Xen, I feel so chastened. I think I'll run over to WalMart and buy a laudatory biography of Dick Cheney, read it quickly, then tear up the pages and toss them into a pristine wilderness!

That's a unique idea for recycling paper.  Not to mention that it would provide superb nesting material for small animals.  Excellent enviromentally-friendly idea.

Quote - You are right, of course. People who think hooters the size of Australia are a feminine ideal are just guys with preferences. Holy Moses, who could think otherwise except a liberal traitor obsessed with political correctness???

Personally, I find that "hooters the size of Australia" look deformed.  There it is.  I'll go further and also grant you that gigantic "hooters" can be offered up to us as an entirely unhealthy obsession.  I certainly won't argue the point that women can be objectified.  But for that matter: so can men.  People of any type can be objectified.  And while admitting that various body types & the attraction to them are in the eye of the beholder -- it still remains that there is a generally accepted ideal.  This is the world & the reality that we live in.  Perfectly natural inclinations cannot be pointed to as a reason for condemnation.  Because if they are: then we are all equally condemned.  The problem here stems from an apparent desire to place everyone whose tastes follow the generally accepted ideal into a condemned category.

Personal taste is personal taste.

Attempts to force people to adhere to some other mode of thnking  will always fail in the end.  However: such attempts at enforced mental bondage contrary to free nature can and do sometimes succeed in making life into a living hell for many, many people.  Unless, of course, if one wishes to immigrate to North Korea.  While the topic that we are discussing here certainly doesn't rise anywhere near the level of North Korean regimentation -- it can be extended to show the same sort of principles in operation in a microcosm.

PC'ism is just another form of mental bondage.  And I'm a conservative with libertarian leanings.  So the smell of PC is offensive.

I think you make a great argument.....it is so great in fact that it perfectly finds grounding in what i have been saying all along, and that is no one should have the Vicki ideal forced down thier throats. creating a character that limits you to this ideal does just that.

Your argument attempts to turn the whole issure around as if Vicki as a mesh is under attack and  needs some type of defending. you further go on to say that there is a generally accepted ideal...which is again, the point I raise, accepted by whom?  I can tell you that when my friends and i go to clubs, one of the most fun things to do is bust on each other about how our idea of "sexy" often breaks down along racial lines.... example... White guys like long skinny legs,   Latino and Black guys tend to like thicker much more curvy type...asian guys like something else etc...etc...... now keep in mind im talking about amongst my friends, this is what ive seen. vicki as a "generally accepted ideal, follows very closely the fantasy of mainly my white hanging buddies...so If you mean the accepted ideal of white guys.... I might accept that.....Are you sure you dont work at Daz? lol!  nothing wrong with vicki or those who like what she is. there is something terribly wrong with this idea of a generally accepted ideal.   hopefully daz gets a clue in V4 and gives you your standard vicki, but at least provides usable morphs for the rest of us. maybe a start would be making her about 5'4". shes been very tall for all her versions thus far.

Oh, I suspect that V4 will prove to be highly adaptable.  She'll probably morph just about any way that you want.

As I've indicated earlier -- I've got characters in my runtime from many different ethnicities.  The more the merrier.

You are sort of missing my point here -- you don't see semi-regular complaints being posted in the forums over the taste of those who prefer various races/ethnicities.  That's not the issue.  Rather: the vocal complaints tend to be directed towards those whose tastes extend to Victoria.  And it's said that you tend to hear from the unhappy.

You've got your taste?  Your buds have their tastes?  Great.

An ideal accepted by whom?  What sells.......sells.  And far more than the rest.  There is a reason.  And it's not because of the pseudo-arguments that some people attempt to come up with in order to explain it all away.

I'd never dream of saying that "this is the way that a woman should look".  But I wouldn't hesitate to point out (truthfully) that it's the ideal......empirically for the majority of the male population.

Is a person's intrinsic worth decided upon such factors?  Absolutely not.  That's offensive, too.  But hey: most of us don't possess Hollywood-star looks ourselves.  Life just isn't fair.  The best thing to do is to not worry about it.  Look at what you've got -- not at what someone else has.  If people could do this simple thing, then they'd be a lot happier -- and a lot less inclined to constantly whine about other people's personal tastes.  Whining about what "they" are doing won't make "them" change their behavior.  It'll just increase the unhappiness of the complainer once they see that for all of their bitter words -- in matters of personal taste: other people will still go ahead and do what they are gonna do.  And they aren't going to ask for permission or approval to do it.

V4 will probably be a great mesh for body-shaping as needed.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Quote - Oh, I suspect that V4 will prove to be highly adaptable.  She'll probably morph just about any way that you want.

As I've indicated earlier -- I've got characters in my runtime from many different ethnicities.  The more the merrier.

You are sort of missing my point here -- you don't see semi-regular complaints being posted in the forums over the taste of those who prefer various races/ethnicities.  That's not the issue.  Rather: the vocal complaints tend to be directed towards those whose tastes extend to Victoria.  And it's said that you tend to hear from the unhappy.

You've got your taste?  Your buds have their tastes?  Great.

An ideal accepted by whom?  What sells.......sells.  And far more than the rest.  There is a reason.  And it's not because of the pseudo-arguments that some people attempt to come up with in order to explain it all away.

I'd never dream of saying that "this is the way that a woman should look".  But I wouldn't hesitate to point out (truthfully) that it's the ideal......empirically for the majority of the male population.

Is a person's intrinsic worth decided upon such factors?  Absolutely not.  That's offensive, too.  But hey: most of us don't possess Hollywood-star looks ourselves.  Life just isn't fair.  The best thing to do is to not worry about it.  Look at what you've got -- not at what someone else has.  If people could do this simple thing, then they'd be a lot happier -- and a lot less inclined to constantly whine about other people's personal tastes.  Whining about what "they" are doing won't make "them" change their behavior.  It'll just increase the unhappiness of the complainer once they see that for all of their bitter words -- in matters of personal taste: other people will still go ahead and do what they are gonna do.  And they aren't going to ask for permission or approval to do it.

V4 will probably be a great mesh for body-shaping as needed.

I got your point my friend, and maybe you are right, that people do post attacks on vicki lovers..lol! but the point of THIS post was not that.... and  it certainly isnt my point, so im going to assume that you werent implying that I was whining.
As far as what sells...are you making a comparative statement? sells compared to what? a more realistically proportioned daz product? well, that product hasnt happend yet. compared to miki? well miki is a very successful productin her own right.
 Vicki sells because she is all that Daz has chosen to put out that is poser targeted. not because she has long skinny legs.
You know, we may not share taste in women, (which i know wasnt the point as well) but i suspect I would enjoy discussing this with you in one of those clubs over a beer.
As far as V4/Daz being anthing more than a further tweaked version of the current somatotype, ill believe it when I see it....... thier thought process in what they told me says it all.

But you feel free  to enjoy.  you certainly have AMPLE opportunity. lol!

MIki is also cute in her own right.....and so Miki has developed a larger-than-most-other-figures (except for Victoria) fan base.  That's an example of the "Victoria Effect" in operation -- not an argument against it.

And yeah -- I suspect that when it comes to V4 -- seeing will be believing.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Quote - I'd never dream of saying that "this is the way that a woman should look".  But I wouldn't hesitate to point out (truthfully) that it's the ideal......empirically for the majority of the male population.

The rule in neocon thinking is that first we define "the majority" as ourselves. Then if someone points out that white "majority" is slipping fast, we summon the spirit of St. Paddy of the Bog Trash (of which I am one, by the way) to excoriate mud people under various euphemisms.

The argument that what white middle-class media ram down our throat is the ideal because it's what white middle-class media ram down our throat is, well, we call it "circular." Vicki is the ideal the way you define "ideal," of the majority the way you define "majority," of males the way you define "males." You are wrong on all three counts.

The "ideal" is what we love, not what we drool on. The "majority" is all people, not just the ones who fit your definition by sharing your prejudices. And you don't get to be "male" until your values grow up.

Mick

There we go with that dreaded "neocon" label again -- I suspect that anything not to your taste is "neocon" in origin.  Kind of along the same lines as a somewhat elderly woman that I know.........to her, anyone that she doesn't happen to like or agree with gets labeled "lazy".  Even when, given the context of the discussion, the term "lazy" is utterly meaningless.

"Neocon" is a shadowy political term of dubious origin.  These days, it's a term which is used constantly by a lot of confirmed anti-semites.  Some of them use it to mean "a conservative supporter of Israel".  But at its base -- it's basically a derogatory term meaning "conservative Jew".  And I'm not Jewish.  But I am a conservative supporter of Israel.

So what relevance the term "neocon" has to do with the present discussion escapes me.  If you are looking for an insulting term to use against your opponents, then you can borrow the favorite label of my old-lady acquaintance.  "Lazy" will do the job just as well -- and it'll be just as on-topic for the purpose.  Also -- it's easier to pronounce than "neocon".  Shorter, too.  You can save yourself some typing time.

This isn't a racial issue.  But I'd like to point out which side it was that dragged the issue of race into it.

Miki is attractive, too.  I've said that: in case if I didn't make it clear the first time around.  And you don't "become male" by "your values growing up" -- whatever that means.  I suppose that -- loosely interpeted -- it means "when you agree with me"........and that ain't gonna happen.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Quote - There we go with that dreaded "neocon" label again -- I suspect that anything not to your taste is "neocon" in origin.  Kind of along the same lines as a somewhat elderly woman that I know.........to her, anyone that she doesn't happen to like or agree with gets labeled "lazy".  Even when, given the context of the discussion, the term "lazy" is utterly meaningless.

"Neocon" is a shadowy political term of dubious origin.  These days, it's a term which is used constantly by a lot of confirmed anti-semites.  Some of them use it to mean "a conservative supporter of Israel".  But at its base -- it's basically a derogatory term meaning "conservative Jew".  And I'm not Jewish.  But I am a conservative supporter of Israel.

So what relevance the term "neocon" has to do with the present discussion escapes me.  If you are looking for an insulting term to use against your opponents, then you can borrow the favorite label of my old-lady acquaintance.  "Lazy" will do the job just as well -- and it'll be just as on-topic for the purpose.  Also -- it's easier to pronounce than "neocon".  Shorter, too.  You can save yourself some typing time.

This isn't a racial issue.  But I'd like to point out which side it was that dragged the issue of race into it.

Miki is attractive, too.  I've said that: in case if I didn't make it clear the first time around.  And you don't "become male" by "your values growing up" -- whatever that means.  I suppose that -- loosely interpeted -- it means "when you agree with me"........and that ain't gonna happen.

IT was I who brought up the race issue,as it was eqivalent to the shape and variety issue. and by the way, im on no one's side. In fact, i carefully brought it up with reluctance, hoping to avoid this degrading into what it has. The term "PC" has no more to do with the original point than the term "neocon" ...or "lazy"....
As mentioned before, I agree that you have the right to like Vicki as she is. that also had nothing to do with the original point.
Its always amusing to me, how those unaffected by an issue are often the first to tell those affected how they should feel about said issue.
The different "Ethnicities" you have in your runtime folder are simply new textures with Vicky underneath. far from authentic. If that works for you... fine. ..... but in case I didnt make it clear last three times, im hoping someone has ideas on altering the body proportions. do you have any opinions in THAT regard?

belalarue --

Don't misinterpret arrows which are aimed at someone else as being aimed at you.  I haven't seen any evidence of your being a PC-shill; nor have you made any detectable not-so-subtle hints at someone else being a closet racist.  Or at least I haven't interpreted what you've said in that way.  That's all come from elsewhere.  You've not impressed me as the type who tends to favor such methods of argument.  That is to say: the standard lib methodology of attacking your opponent's motives & engaging in name-calling, rather than dealing with the facts of the case.

But I will say that I wish that your reluctance to bring the subject up would have prevailed -- because the (at least) indirect implications of.......like maybe someone is a racist, or else motivated by racist underpinnings........are hovering around in the background.  And a 'discussion' which ends up heading in that direction can quickly go into the intellectual dumper.  When anyone refuses to grant their opponent the courtesy of allowing them the pure sincerity of their opinions without suggesting that they must have underlying evil (insert dramatic horror-movie music here) motivations for holding to those opinions..........then 'debating' is no longer what you are doing.

Using epitaphs like 'neocon' in an attempt to label your opponent -- and thus discredit their points by smearing their motives -- quickly leads into an intellectual black hole from which the "discussion" can usually never return.  After that: it can all become nothing more than a matter of hurling personal insults.  Speaking of 6th-grade boys on a playground..........

BTW - if my esteemed opponent wishes to use the "implied racism" card -- then I'll be happy to call the bet -- and to raise the ante on him.  In fact, I'll be happy to throw the entire deck in his face.  "Neocon".......yeah, right.  He's in good company, using a term like that one.  There are certain groups who just LOVE to use that silly codeword all of the time.

And it seems to be one of his favorite words.  I wonder why?

BTW - if they choose to make a base figure that looks like Tyra Banks, then I'll be more than happy to add the model to my runtime.  But that's the thing about meshes.  They can be meshed pretty much any way that you like.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Quote - belalarue --

Don't misinterpret arrows which are aimed at someone else as being aimed at you.  I haven't seen any evidence of your being a PC-shill; nor have you made any detectable not-so-subtle hints at someone else being a closet racist.  Or at least I haven't interpreted what you've said in that way.  That's all come from elsewhere.  You've not impressed me as the type who tends to favor such methods of argument.  That is to say: the standard lib methodology of attacking your opponent's motives & engaging in name-calling, rather than dealing with the facts of the case.

But I will say that I wish that your reluctance to bring the subject up would have prevailed -- because the (at least) indirect implications of.......like maybe someone is a racist, or else motivated by racist underpinnings........are hovering around in the background.  And a 'discussion' which ends up heading in that direction can quickly go into the intellectual dumper.  When anyone refuses to grant their opponent the courtesy of allowing them the pure sincerity of their opinions without suggesting that they must have underlying evil (insert dramatic horror-movie music here) motivations for holding to those opinions..........then 'debating' is no longer what you are doing.

Using epitaphs like 'neocon' in an attempt to label your opponent -- and thus discredit their points by smearing their motives -- quickly leads into an intellectual black hole from which the "discussion" can usually never return.  After that: it can all become nothing more than a matter of hurling personal insults.  Speaking of 6th-grade boys on a playground..........

BTW - if my esteemed opponent wishes to use the "implied racism" card -- then I'll be happy to call the bet -- and to raise the ante on him.  In fact, I'll be happy to throw the entire deck in his face.  "Neocon".......yeah, right.  He's in good company, using a term like that one.  There are certain groups who just LOVE to use that silly codeword all of the time.

And it seems to be one of his favorite words.  I wonder why?

BTW - if they choose to make a base figure that looks like Tyra Banks, then I'll be more than happy to add the model to my runtime.  But that's the thing about meshes.  They can be meshed pretty much any way that you like.

GREAT!!!! maybe we can still get that beer one day after all lol! but i gotta tell you, interjecting "race" is different from implying "racism" and it was done before your first rsponse, so you willingly walked into it before my reluctance subsided. additionally, by wanting me to not bring it up, does that not border on wanting me to be pc?
while i do have strong feelings and thoughts on the socially relevent sides of this issue,  I just dont think this is the time or place for them.

.  I have no doubt that you'd rush to get a TYRA mesh... after all,shes tall and got skinny legs "all the way to heaven" hahaha! on the issue of making vicki into whatever you want.... lets just strongly agree to strongly disagree.

we really should get that beer, you're alot of fun to spar with, but i m not sure that other members are enjoying this.

@belalarue

“..hoping someone has ideas on altering the body proportions”.

Well in one of your earlier post you said you were playing with Zbrush, so in my opinion you already have one of (if not the best) tool for shaping body/face proportions.

You expressed concern about changing the polygon count (and morphs not working) with some software…

In Zbrush you can take the mesh up one or two “levels” (which subdivides the hell out of it) and work with an incredibly dense mesh to get detail.

Then bring it back down to level one and the resulting morphs will work just fine (no change from the original poly-count)!

 

While people get very worked up about how a particular mesh looks, I look at the mesh as nothing more than a primitive (with rigging) waiting to be shaped to my likings.

Admittedly I don’t use Vic3 very much, but prefer the Laura3 (Young Teen) version of the unimesh (technically the same mesh).

I’m not being anti-Vicky, but I find three things more compelling working with the L3 version mesh.

1. While underdeveloped for an adult mesh, I find her body proportions (limbs, torso, shoulder scaling, etc.) closer to a real human than Vic3.
2. The shoulders don’t need nearly as much work as the V3 mesh.
3. Being an underdeveloped (not as shapely) figure, I find I get more pleasing results by pulling a mesh out to shape as opposed to pushing one into shape.

Don’t know if that makes any sense but an example would be, making Laura’s small breast larger and shapely is easier than making V3’s large breast smaller with a good shape (more aesthetic than technical I guess).

L3 is only my personal preference, but it doesn’t really matter which mesh you choose, as with the software you have (Zbrush, Mudbox) you can make whatever you want…just dig in and learn them.

 

Hope my rambling helps some,

SWAMP

 

Quote - we really should get that beer, you're alot of fun to spar with, but i m not sure that other members are enjoying this.

 Oh......some members are enjoying it, and some aren't.  That "Rendersensualosity" (sp?) thread is getting more hits than this one is.  So perhaps upon that basis we can gauge what the membership is more interested in..........

You'll have to make that beer into either water or a soft drink for me: as I am what they call a tee-totaller.  But I'd be happy to discuss these issues with you in a social situation.  I get the sense that you are a right guy.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Quote - While people get very worked up about how a particular mesh looks, I look at the mesh as nothing more than a primitive (with rigging) waiting to be shaped to my likings.

SWAMP - you've said far more with that one line than most ........

Quote - Hope my rambling helps some, SWAMP

Your "rambling" got right to the essence of this thead.  That might be the 1st time that I've ever seen such an excellent techincal answer to a "social ills" type thread.

Thanks. :thumbupboth:

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Quote - @belalarue

“..hoping someone has ideas on altering the body proportions”.

Well in one of your earlier post you said you were playing with Zbrush, so in my opinion you already have one of (if not the best) tool for shaping body/face proportions.

You expressed concern about changing the polygon count (and morphs not working) with some software…

In Zbrush you can take the mesh up one or two “levels” (which subdivides the hell out of it) and work with an incredibly dense mesh to get detail.

Then bring it back down to level one and the resulting morphs will work just fine (no change from the original poly-count)!

 

While people get very worked up about how a particular mesh looks, I look at the mesh as nothing more than a primitive (with rigging) waiting to be shaped to my likings.

Admittedly I don’t use Vic3 very much, but prefer the Laura3 (Young Teen) version of the unimesh (technically the same mesh).

I’m not being anti-Vicky, but I find three things more compelling working with the L3 version mesh.

1. While underdeveloped for an adult mesh, I find her body proportions (limbs, torso, shoulder scaling, etc.) closer to a real human than Vic3.
2. The shoulders don’t need nearly as much work as the V3 mesh.
3. Being an underdeveloped (not as shapely) figure, I find I get more pleasing results by pulling a mesh out to shape as opposed to pushing one into shape.

Don’t know if that makes any sense but an example would be, making Laura’s small breast larger and shapely is easier than making V3’s large breast smaller with a good shape (more aesthetic than technical I guess).

L3 is only my personal preference, but it doesn’t really matter which mesh you choose, as with the software you have (Zbrush, Mudbox) you can make whatever you want…just dig in and learn them.

 

Hope my rambling helps some,

SWAMP

 

THANX!!! Just what i was hoping for! Mudbox demo indicates a much more intuitve interface and process than Zbrush, but Im guessing the end results would be similar.somehow, i wasnt aware that you could simply output to level one after the surface had been subdivided...without a polygon change. this simplifies things quite a bit. much appreciation for your input!

 

Quote - > Quote - While people get very worked up about how a particular mesh looks, I look at the mesh as nothing more than a primitive (with rigging) waiting to be shaped to my likings.

SWAMP - you've said far more with that one line than most ........

Quote - Hope my rambling helps some, SWAMP

Your "rambling" got right to the essence of this thead.  That might be the 1st time that I've ever seen such an excellent techincal answer to a "social ills" type thread.

Thanks. :thumbupboth:

I definately agree but with one caveat......if you are using zbrush or any such THIRD PARTY program to rework a mesh, then you are going beyond what DAZ had intended for the mesh in terms of its  capabilities.  Anyone well versed in these external resources that wasnt satisfied with vicki would of course then have options.... and consequently view her as just a starting point mesh.....Water or juice....it's on me man.