Okay ... I think I may have stumbled onto something here. Using IBL lighting (tweeking it a little with enhansed shadows on the ground plane). As you can see I'm trying to make my Poser scene look as if it's part of the background. Comments and suggestions are welcome. I'm not sure where to take it from here other than finding a way to make it bigger without losing my perspective. The figures are rather small, but all the same it seems to fit with the image.

Boni

"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

Attached Link: http://market.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2662390

You might want to check out that thread. I posted several links about lighting and shadows and I believe there was one or two about making your image look like it belongs in the background.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Something like this (image), but something else in mind? If yes, can be done. I had to lower the quality to put up in here.

Attached Link: Look Up

Site wouldn't let me upload the image I was refering to ... so I uploaded a larger one it the gallery. Robo2010 is very, very close to what I'm doing. I'm trying to add subtle ambience to mine with low light. Love your links Acadia, as always you come through with fiying colors. Please let me know how you feel my "experiment " is going. Thanks.

Boni

"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

Really really good. But you asked for C&C, so here goes some nitpicky stuff.

Using IBL lighting (tweeking it a little with enhansed shadows on the ground plane). I assume you mean AO?

I think the AO on the girl is too strong, especially on her left thigh. I think I see a general darkening under the horse, which is right. The horse clearly seems anchored even though there is no distinct shadow.

I think you have the lighting very close to matching. The drago and man blend great.

This is an overcast day, right? So we don't expect strong shadows nor strong highlights. So I'm bothered by the shine on her head. It's very localized like a spotlight is shinging on her. Is that painted into the texture? It's distracting.

The dragon's right wing membrane is semitransparent (I can see the trees through it). I'm not believing that. Needs to look more translucent than transparent. Although I guess I've never actually seen a dragon so maybe that's right ;-)

Again, very very good render.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

Really nice work IMO, you'v gotten the camera match and lighting down almost perfectly and it's an interesting theme... makes you want to see what will happen next.

Now as for crits (and this is just my 2c)

I'm having some trouble judging the scale of the dragon and how 'deep' it is in the scene. ie is it a huge dragon way above in the trees or a small dragon above the girl's head or where. The main reason for this is that it is un-naturally crisp and has no depth of field on it. You should blur it to match the depth of its placement in the scene. eg if it is near the trees then it should be as blurry as them. Same thing for the guy. Also since the dragon is presumably moving, it should have motion blur as well, especially on its wings. Otherwise it looks like a stationary prop someone hung in the sky. I would also change its color a bit so it becomes less lost in the green of the trees.
To me the horse seems to be floating on the path. The main reason for this is it's hooves have no contact shadows. Look at the rocks on the left of the path, notice how they have well defined shadow/dark areas at their bases ? You need to duplicate that for the hooves as well to ground the horse. The soft diffuse shadow works fine for the bulk of the horse but not the hooves cause even on very cloudy days, things that are almost touching each other get strong contact shadows. Easiest would be to just paint them in. Same thing for the guy and his boots. Just keep em subtle.
The grain and quality of the 3d elements is different from the backdrop. This is why for best results you should never ever use jpg files as backdrops. Most jpgs you get on the net have compression artifacts (those blocky things around edges) while your render doesnt. So either use a clean uncompressed file like a BMP or TIFF or first compress your render separately and then composite it over the backdrop so that both have artifacts.

Besides that it's excellent work !

Here is an image with some suggestions that I've added. I couldn't tone down the hair any more than this. I changed the dragon textures. deepened the shadows slightly. The shadow of the skirt ... okay, I'm sick, I sort of like the effect, no offense. And I tried to create motion blur and depth of field and the effects were muddy and didn't do well. I also changed the head on the horse a little to give him more personality. Ears, mouth, turn of the head. Just a little tweaking. :)
Look Up

Boni

"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

Attached Link: The 3D Cookbook: Compositing

I saw that in the Market Place and it seems to be what you are trying to do.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Acadia, that is a great idea. I know Robin Woods has a tutorial on that very thing that is excellent. What I am doing however is all done within Poser 6 because it has the shadowing function on the ground plane that allows you to create a shadow on any background image. This is what I'm trying to perfect as well as matching the lighting in the photo. :)

Boni

"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

Hi, Bonni,

I have a couple of suggestions that may improve your image (in addition to the much better suggestions given above)..

I'm not "convinced" by either the horse's pose (in both pics), nor the "running man's"...

For the horse: although it may be technically/physically accurate, that LH-Fore-leg (the nearest one) looks wrong to me. It's probably just a visual effect, but may I suggest twisting it (from where it meets the body, sorry, I don't know the technical terms for horse parts - in a human it'd be the "upper arm" or "shoulder"), such that it pointed a tad more towards the camera?
(Although not anatomically correct, artist's licence could let you get away with it, and it might give a better "flow" to the composition)...
For the running man: He's obviously trying to reach the girl (whether to attack or defend, I can't tell from just the pic). But either way, he should'nt be following the path, but taking a short-cut across the grass towards her...

I realise that your main intention was to experiment with the technical areas of incorporating figures into a BG pic (which you've achieved wonderfully), but hope that my 2 little thoughts might help with the "perceived" realism aspect :-)

Cheers,
Diolma

Great Suggestions. I like the horse one especially. It's funny, but I've noticed people taking paths when no necessary ... and I guess so is the guy. I was afraid the shadows wouldn't look as natural on the grass (too flat) Here is another I am working on. For your approval. I call it.
"Battle On!" and I'm sure there are those out there who will know why. :)

Boni

"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

Quote - Poser 6 because it has the shadowing function on the ground plane that allows you to create a shadow on any background image.

That depends really.

If you are referring to using Daz's Cyclorama or RNDA's Infinity Cove, then you can get perspective shadows on the background. But images have to be specifically mapped to each of those.

If you are importing a background into Poser, light and shadow won't interact with the background and you will have to add the shadows and light to the background in post work.

However, if you use a primative single sided square and put the background on it inside the Material Room and then resize the square to the dimensions of the background, then the background becomes a prop. You can move it around and resize it and the light will interact with the background like it would any prop. Your props and figures will also cast a shadow on the background, but only to the degree that it would on a wall, but it won't be perspective.

Your other way is to render your image without a background. Keep the ground plane visible so that your images cast floor shadows (you can determine the strength of the shadow by changing the shadow amount in the parameter dials for a light). Save the render as a .png file. Open the Render into a graphic program and then paste in a background of your choice and move it below the image.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I'm confused, Acadia, because all of the images I've made so far have been totally in Poser using the cast shadow function on the ground plane and IBL AO lighting with some tweeking with the lights. Only post work has been to poke throughs and joint fixes. Are my shadows that far off this way? I'm using the horizon line and the angle of the ground plane to match the image. ??? No disrepect intended, I'm just confused.

Sincerely
Boni

Boni

"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

LOL, now I'm confused. I'm only passing along various information that was given to me when I was trying to figure out how to use backgrounds inside Poser and get shadows.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I've had enough problems with Poser 6 and background images that I will now use a shadow-catcher and Render Over Black--saved as a PNG, that gives me an image with an Alpha Channel I can composite in postwork.

AntoniaTiger, that sounds more complicated than what I do. I've used hints from "Practical Poser 6" and "Poser 6 Revealed: The Official Guide". The manual doesn't go into it as much for some reason. I pop in a "close" IBL OA light set then tweek it for the shadows to match and the sun color to match and soften the shadows on the sunlight and IBL light. I show the horizon line and line it up with the photo and then continue to tweek until I get what I want. I like the chalange of doing as much as I can in the native program and then clean it up in post work.

Acadia: The techniques you mentioned are fantastic for pre-P6. P6 takes the place of some of the previous work arounds that you mentioned. Give it a try. I'm finding it fascinating and it doesn't take nearly as long as you might think ... especally if you have a smooth "road" or flat ground you are putting your figures on. I think that is the trick. If you have rough torrain, objects that need to catch the shadows then the other techniques are necessary. But for a semi-flat ground I think this is working pretty well. Everyone is right about the modern gravel roads ... but hea, that's what was in the photo and for now I figured it's a small price for the "experiment" I'm perfomring.

Peace
Boni

Boni

"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: New test render: blending Poser with Background.