Do you read our mail?or is it private?and do you have the right to read our mail?Rumour has it that someones personal message was used to get them in trouble....is this true?

Hi Bill, well i think it is not allowed to read private messages and emails.
The correspodence should be private and its not directed to anyone else but only to the recipient.

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

Thats what i thought ,But now i hear from a friend that we are being selectively monitored if they foresee some kind of problem in the gallery or marketplace...I want to hear it from the top that we are not..then i will sleep better..because i believe like you it should only be read by who it is sent to.

Well if this rumour is true, this will really gives me a bad feeling. :(
My private messages are private, ( how the name says) , If i want that other peoples read my opinions i use the Forum.   

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

Renderosity does not monitor site mail.....could ya imagine trying to read the IM's of 400,000 + members?? :blink:

I'd be more worried about the government...they see anything whenever they want...{I just discovered Google Earth again...and found my house. :scared:

Dont know who your friend is, or why they'd want to start such a rumor..but its untrue.

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

It's very well possible to monitor site mail, there's no encryption system. The messages are just plain text stored in the database, so anyone with the correct database access rights can read them.

I know how to design a database in such a way that ONLY the database administrator can assert the right to read another one's site mail. But this requires the use of stored procedures, which are not supported by MySQL 4.x.

So technically it's possible. But I don't think the staff has so much time on their hands that they're sifting through PMs.Maybe if someone reports abuse of the site mail system, for example a member receives hate mail or threats via site mail.

I don't know US and Tennessee law on this, but in Dutch law it is forbidden to read another one's mail. You'll need substantial suspicion of criminal activities plus a court order in order to read that mail legally.

The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter

My gallery   My freestuff

@jumpstartme2
Well maybee they dont read all the IM, just special one?
LOL Ist nice to see your house hmm? Du you know that they can watch even in your bedroom if they wanna? :cursing: 

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

@svdl
To read private mails and messages is forbidden in germany and Italy too.
Fact is, not even the police can use private letters aginst you if they read them and find something suspect inside the letter or mail. Whithout your okay is not allowed.

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

I thought you'd said you were leaving anyway so it shouldn't matter to you!

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

Thats crap!All my friends are here and my gallery is still here ,i just dont post art here anymore...I am still concerned when friends get screwed with..and that is why i am asking..

@fixer
Well if bill write in the Forums or he leave the community it is his bussines and shouldnt matter to you too. :blink:

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

It doesn't, What matters to me is the constant whingeing at the way the site is run all the time!!

Sure, if it's happening it's bad but I can tell you with first hand knowledge that when I did the job as a mod here I certainly had no access to other's site mail, maybe someone higher up might but I never heard of it!

As for time, the mods don't have the time to do it either, most of the time is taken up with members posting images that they shouldn't or dealing with little spats in the forums!

Incidentally, on that issue I only said that because I saw an image of yours a few nights back where you said you were leaving, if I mis-read it then that's fine!

 

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

Ok, Svdl has pretty much hit the nail on the head here...lets look at the TOS regarding communications...

Communications

Renderosity provides a variety of communication services to members. These include: forums, gallaries, chat rooms, message boards, and instant messaging. Any information provided by members using these services is considered public information and is logged. Renderosity has access to these communications and will review them if needed.

Now, altho Renderosity can view this information,{and this is admins/owners Im talking about here} this would only be done in instances like svdl mentioned above.. threats of physical harm, property damage or acts of violence toward another individual, or group of individuals, etc...
That being said, the staff absolutely do not sit and monitor members site mails...

Primal, Again, I do not know who you are referring to, but if that person has a concern, he/she can contact any member of staff with it. ;)

Ya'll rest easy K?

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

@Ladona:

Oh yes, I know they can see me...LOL! They can sit a mile from my house and listen to every word I say in my house...there is also a satellite that can pinpoint within a foot of where Im standing at any given time....

Spooky? Yea.... LOL

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

@jumpstartme2
LOL yes it is creepy. Imaging...they are some guys who are maybee boring, because nothing is happened and they start to play whith the monitors and look inside my house, just for fun.
And just this time i am doing something silly. :scared:   :blushing
Madonna , Mia, this could be very punishable by death  .
Hope i find the right english word for this. :blushing    lol

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

1. whatever you put in the internet is public. 2. if youd have access to other peoples accounts, would you read their mail or not? 3. if youd ask a polititian whether he will stay to his promises or not, what could his answer possibly be?

@Amacord

1. No its not. Is my bank account public? Has somebody the right to read private mails from me?
   Or another question, if you are working in a Postoffice, you have the right to open peoples letters and read them ? NO!!!
2. I never would do this. I dont know how you are thinking about this, but for me, i can say you NO!
3. LOL Here is better i ceep my mouth closed.   :cursing

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

Another look is this....

Was someone so uncomfortable with what someone else said to them in Site Mail that they forwarded it to admin?  It's completely possible, and probable.  A LOT more probable than an admin reading your mail.

MS

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Now i have scene proof that what i say is true...and due to legal reasons i have to plead the 5th...and for the fixer i dont appreciate what you say,,its not helping in any way...calling people whiners doesnt help..the forum is to get some help and answer questions,it just seams like you want friction.To me the site is run very badly,It used to be alot different before all the constant herrassment...and if someone doesnt speak up for what they think or find out the truth then they arent seeing the whole picture..and that i guess is up to them..but i dont come to the forums just to have a different oppinion as others i come to hopefully find things out..

What happened whith the one answer.  
Why its deleted?  I want to write a reply but now its gone.
Is it wrong to tell the true?

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

Sorry... my ex-husband (who has been banned more times than you can shake a stick at) came back with another unhinged rant.

You can find the exact same post at http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2664703&page=2 by "ban-the-man" (catchy name...)

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

Quote - Sorry... my ex-husband (who has been banned more times than you can shake a stick at) came back with another unhinged rant.

You can find the exact same post at http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2664703&page=2 by "ban-the-man" (catchy name...)

Sorry Karen, this is really bad.        You are right.
I think the RO forum is not the right place for private harass.

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

Primaltruck, you can see that I have contributed to these forums many times in my time here and I have only once in that time to my memory had a spat with anyone and that was a misunderstanding which we sorted by IM.

To accuse me of "wanting friction" is totally not what I'm about, I'm sure "regular" posters will back me up on that. In fact it is just the opposite, I'm sick and tired of coming to these forums to see the same old "lets attack the site admins" mentality time and again, I would like to see the whole site just getting on with what we're all here for, posting your images, good like yours or bad like mine doesn't matter and generally "helping" each other out, remember that?

Seems a lot of people want to just come and bash how the site is run all the time and you know what, despite all the moans and groans, this site is still the best supported on the net and still continues to grow!

I intended no malice towards you personally, I never do, i just get pissed off with people having a go at the people who do a hard job for no pay trying to keep the site respectable for everyone, if that's wrong of me well......................... and if I have offended you well I'm sorry!

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

I doubt if they have time to read IMs here. nonetheless, I compose every IM, every e-mail, every forum message, every telephone call, every communication of any kind as if it's being monitored. even tho it's most probably not being monitored. the reason: I don't labour under any delusions that freedom of speech is anything more than an illusion, anywhere in this world.

Jumpstartme2 gave the appropriate information gathered from the TOS

 

Renderosity provides a variety of communication services to members. These include: forums, gallaries, chat rooms, message boards, and instant messaging. Any information provided by members using these services is considered public information and is logged. Renderosity has access to these communications and will review them if needed.

So the answer is no we don't routinely monitor site mails BUT as stated above if needed we will review (ie, harrassment, attacking, threats, etc)

 

Thanks

**
**

Oh and in response to you primaltruck, we don't discuss others issues with anyone but staff and that specific person or persons involved. If your friend has an issue its up to them to communicate with staff about it

Thank you stacy that answers it pretty well..and i didnt mean to put anyone down for doing their jobs...i understand the need for this in these instances(Herrasment,abuse,ect) but was curious what the rules were...I shouldnt  be thinking anything out here on the internet is really private..and to thefixer,no hard feelings and sorry about the friction thing..It is sometime hard to see what someone is saying..in type..

No worries primaltruck:) 

 

Have a great evening!!

Now i see that Armourbeast has adressed this issue in its completeness in the poser forum....Check it out it explains what i couldnt."Another merchant banned serious questions"is the name of the post..

as a side note, an IM, like a phone call, may be considered a privileged communication for which there is a reasonable expectation of privacy (no federal privacy law in the states). in some european jurisdictions they may have actual laws declaring it so. but there are always exceptions.

Hmmmm, I'm going to step in here for a moment on this subject, because I wonder if there is a bit more to this than has been discussed so far. It's been stated by the admins & moderators that site mail or email might be looked at in cases such as "harrassment, attacking, threats, etc." Those particular examples sound okay to me...I'd guess that in such situations that one of the parties (probably the receiver of the messages?) welcomes (maybe even requests) the aid & investigation by the admins.

But the TOS asserts the general right for the admins to look at these things, and I don't see any restrictions stated as to the circumstances. How about these??

• What if a member regularly complains in the forums about the site (e.g., site speed, conversion issues, general fairness of how members are treated by the admins, etc). Does this member become a subject of having their private messages or email scrutinized by the admins?

• What if a member posts a controversial image in the galleries, one which fully conforms to the TOS, but which some admin strongly dislikes. Does this member suddenly get their private messages or email scrutinized by the admins?

• What if a member who purchased a product in the store is really unhappy with the item, complains bitterly about it but can never get the matter resolved either with the merchant or the store manager. The member NEVER makes any threats, or harrassment or personal attacks, but has a heated argument with the store manager about the issue. Can this member's private messages or email be scrutinized by the admins?

• What if an admin learns that a member has been discussing that admin ON A TOTALLY DIFFERENT SITE...perhaps making disparaging remarks about that admin...but NONE of that discussion is ever made on Renderosity. Does this member's private messages or email get rifled through, too?

• What if a Renderosity merchant has a dispute with the admins concerning a product. Can the admins go through the merchant's emails & private messages looking for incriminating evidence against the merchant?

• What happens if a member gets banned from the site because some admin has misinterpreted the member's email or private messages...reads something out of context or thinks it says something it, in fact, doesn't.

I frankly was surprised to hear that the TOS asserted the right of the admins to read these messages & emails. Initially, quite shocked, in fact. I'd like to know the answers to the hypothetical scenarios that I suggested above. I suspect the answer is "Yes" on many if not all of these, and that would be real food for thought.

While I would agree that the admins probably don't have alot of spare time to just sit around reading member's private messages, it does seem like a rather slippery slope and a real intrusion in the member's privacy.

Check out my full gallery at Cliff-Dweller Artworks

What if a member regularly complains in the forums about the site (e.g., site speed, conversion issues, general fairness of how members are treated by the admins, etc). Does this member become a subject of having their private messages or email scrutinized by the admins?

No, that does NOT happen

 

• What if a member posts a controversial image in the galleries, one which fully conforms to the TOS, but which some admin strongly dislikes. Does this member suddenly get their private messages or email scrutinized by the admins?

Again, NO of course not, that is not even close to what the TOS meant or I meant

What if a member who purchased a product in the store is really unhappy with the item, complains bitterly about it but can never get the matter resolved either with the merchant or the store manager. The member NEVER makes any threats, or harrassment or personal attacks, but has a heated argument with the store manager about the issue. Can this member's private messages or email be scrutinized by the admins?

Once again NO, this wouldn't be any cause for us to "scrutinize" their site mail

What if an admin learns that a member has been discussing that admin ON A TOTALLY DIFFERENT SITE...perhaps making disparaging remarks about that admin...but NONE of that discussion is ever made on Renderosity. Does this member's private messages or email get rifled through, too?

I'm seeing a pattern, LOL again NO.

What if a Renderosity merchant has a dispute with the admins concerning a product. Can the admins go through the merchant's emails & private messages looking for incriminating evidence against the merchant?

Again NO that doesn't happen

What happens if a member gets banned from the site because some admin has misinterpreted the member's email or private messages...reads something out of context or thinks it says something it, in fact, doesn't.

As stated several times now, we do this only in cases that require it, harrassment complaints, threat complaints, etc.  The scenario you described above has never happened since I have been here and never heard of a case like that so I don't think someone would be "banned" because an admin "misinterpreted" something. So again I'll have to say No that doesn't happen

That section has been in the TOS as long as I have been here (over 4 years) so I'm wondering did some not read the TOS that they agreed to?

 

I did read the TOS I agreed to.
the TOS now is not that TOS.....

That part of the TOS was Khai and that is what we are discussing.

yes there has been changes and amendments to the TOS as it states that its subject to change and of course has always said that just as most any Terms say.

 

Renderosity reserves the right to change, alter or modify the Terms of Service as needed. All postings, past and present are subject to the most current terms of service

still not the TOS I agreed to in 2000 Stacey.. tho thats not the issue lol

anyway.. back to the September BBQ...

Yes but you agreed knowing it was subject to change no matter how you try and spin it:(  That is standard that a TOS might change as years pass

actually no.. I did'nt agree to it... I just wanted the freebies... funny that..

Well funny that is right cause you wouldn't have made it through registration without clicking that little box saying you agree to the terms, LOL 

oh I clicked th button. but thats it.

I did not agree to it. there is a difference... think on that ...

StaceyG wrote> Quote -No, that does NOT happen

 Again, NO of course not, that is not even close to what the TOS meant or I meant

Once again NO, this wouldn't be any cause for us to "scrutinize" their site mail

I'm seeing a pattern, LOL again NO.

Again NO that doesn't happen

As stated several times now, we do this only in cases that require it, harrassment complaints, threat complaints, etc.  The scenario you described above has never happened since I have been here and never heard of a case like that so I don't think someone would be "banned" because an admin "misinterpreted" something. So again I'll have to say No that doesn't happen

Okay...thank you, Stacey. One last question...On this subject, are you speaking officially for the entire administration of the Renderosity site including those admins who run the Renderosity store?

I also want to make the small observation that while you've answered "No" to all my specific scenarios, you do seem to be keeping your options open when you added "we do this only in cases that require it, harrassment complaints, threat complaints, etc." and the determination of what is actually meant by "cases that require it" is open to some interpretation, wouldn't you agree?

Check out my full gallery at Cliff-Dweller Artworks

If there is a reason and I gave some examples of what that would be, we can review site mails. Cases that require it, YES (examples harrassment, threats, etc) I answered NO to all your scenarios because that was the answer to all of them NO.

 

And yes I speak for the Entire Admin team on this issue.

'ang on!
in the now gone thread in the poser forum you said you could only speak for your team, not the marketplace team etc.

so...?

Thank you again, Stacey...

Check out my full gallery at Cliff-Dweller Artworks

Khai, she moved that thread over to the Copyright forum

Check out my full gallery at Cliff-Dweller Artworks

without leaving the thread moved msg? ouch.

:b_lipssealed: I'm not sayin' nuttin' about that! LOL

Check out my full gallery at Cliff-Dweller Artworks

Khai,

Stac was speaking about a somewhat different matter in that other thread...which basically is a marketplace issue iirc....this one is about site mail monitoring, which she answered.

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Khai,  I did post that the thread had been moved to the APPROPRIATE forum,  you don't/can't see that?

 

Also Jani is right please re read what the issue is about in the other thread, its a little different than this one due to a vendor, copyrights being involved.

 

Thanks!!!

Have a great day!!

Khai,  I did post that the thread had been moved to the APPROPRIATE forum,  you don't/can't see that?

 not in the POSER forum where it was.

since I was not Abotting it.. to my eye's it just vanished. you don't / can't see that?

I see now when the truth comes out you lock the thread......I am upset that you stopped the truth....Why did the armourbeast thread get locked?Everyone needs to read and respond to what was said....and i think more feedback and discussion wouldnt hurt..or will you lock this thread too.This sucks!You have merchants and artists scared angry hurt and leaving..Final warnings with no previous warnings..This needs to be adressed ,,not locked away in your merchants threads that we cant access..What is happening to this fine community?It seams that Power corrupts even in small amounts..

Quote - I see now when the truth comes out you lock the thread......I am upset that you stopped the truth....Why did the armourbeast thread get locked?Everyone needs to read and respond to what was said....and i think more feedback and discussion wouldnt hurt..or will you lock this thread too.This sucks!You have merchants and artists scared angry hurt and leaving..Final warnings with no previous warnings..This needs to be adressed ,,not locked away in your merchants threads that we cant access..What is happening to this fine community?It seams that Power corrupts even in small amounts..

@Bill
How wise words. Could not expain it better.!!!!         

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

Okay I'm going to say this as tactfully as I can and I hope you all understand where I am coming from here.

We as staff can't discuss others issues in detail like that thread was requesting (no, demanding) so we state over and over again that the person involved needs to contact the appropriate persons if they have an issue about their incident and want to discuss further.  And still there was no productive discussion going on there at all, it was simply started because someone else that doesn't have all the facts and info wanted to stir things up.  Members sharing "some"private communications in a public forum without the permission of both parties of the communications is very inappropriate. The manner in which the thread was started didn't invite a productive discussion and it wasn't going that way so we locked the thread.

And to be honest since we will not discuss the details and facts then certain parties can twist things and spin them however they want to make it look like the store staff is 100% at fault.

Its very difficult for us sometimes because we have to maintain the privacy of the issues on a specific situation therefore nothing we could say in that thread was going to turn it around to a productive discussion because that wasn't the intent of it in the first place.

 

choice % # Renderosity is much faster than most other sites I visit. 1.2% 8 Renderosity is somewhat faster than most other sites I visit. 5.6% 38 Renderosity is about the same speed as most other sites I visit. 16.5% 113 Renderosity is somewhat slower than most other sites I visit. 33.1% 226 Renderosity is much slower than most other sites I visit. 43.6% 298  

total votes: 683

I use a family member's computer to get online when I can. This family member was on dial up service and then upgraded to broadband at considerable expense. The fixer's comments about people always whining are due to things like the site poll shown above. It has been that way since I have been a member and much longer for others here longer than me. Once it is corrected it should reduce a large number of whining.

I also notice that many, long time artists have either left or are considering leaving. This bothers me a great deal since these are the backbone of renderosity and give alot of help to myself and others here. When this many long time artists jump ship something is not right.

I keep hearing that the membership still grows. That may be true. But you are losing your standard bearers and replacing them with new people, most who are not nearly as skilled or helpful until they get some experience.

I know my brother also asked once if the speed on renderosity would be faster when this changeover was finished and he was told, "I hope so". That is not a response I would expect to hear from a customer service person in any business or form.

Just my thoughts,

btw: my brother once told me he deleted a post he had made in the writer's forum and then received an IM from a moderator there saying that they could still read what he had originally posted.

 

When will the changeover be completed? Thanks.

Very clever **.......**i heard my end of the story from armourbeast and a few others and because of language differences these people were the ones to explain first hand from the merchant what had happened..and i know said merchant is greatful for this support..and then i also see a little bit of a turn around as you state you can look at our mail(in an emergency) but we cant show yours(in an emergency)???.Is there a rule for that also?

I said its inappropriate to post the communications (these are emails I'm speaking of here not site mails) without the permission in the forums. We don't share emails or site mails for that matter if we were to have to review site mails for one of the reasons I listed on the public forums ever. In a situation where its necessary to review harrassment, threats, etc..,we don't share that info with anyone else. That is not at all the same thing primaltruck.

And I understand you are getting secondhand information from one side of the issue which was my point. You are being given only the information some "choose" to share not the complete facts..

Damn you should be a lawyer..sorry sorry..i really didnt mean that..It is very frustrating then to only get one side of the story..and i didnt understand that was an email communication that was presented.that isnt right..(but it was very informative).i am sorry for assuming this..it is still very very frustrating...i may have to turn my avatars face red....

Heehee. don't turn your avatar red, LOL

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2666749&page=2

Just an FYI, the copyright agent posted a final comment in the locked copyright forum thread in case any are interested in some of the facts.

@mps: My statement about "whingeing" wasn't in any way about the site speed, I also ticked the box to say it is much slower than other sites and I share and understand that frustration, although since my upgrade to IE7 it appears faster.

What I was saying was about the constant sniping and attacks on the admins here who actually do a bloody good job in sometimes very difficult circumstances especially when members don't know what goes on behind the scenes and accuse certain admins of favouritism and other underhand methods to get people banned! Because of the system in use no "one" admin can make a unilateral decision on anything, it always comes down to a majority decision just like good old democracy.

Constanrt bleating about how unfair the system is doesn't wash because it couldn't be any fairer, unless you or anyone else know of a fairer way, I'm sure the admins here would only be too pleased to hear it!

No offence aimed or intended at anyone!

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

I'm happy to see this discussion is still open. The key word is discussion! As StaceyG may well make a good lawyer, primaltruck would make a mighty fine lobbyist! :) One thing I notice: Questions are being answered as best as can be by the Staff (Bravo!), but underlying much of this are: concerns, problems, and serious flaws, about Site Administrative power, and judgement within this thread as well as many others.

I ask: Is there an attempt by the Administrative Staff, as a whole, to look into these matters, and discuss as well as weigh them on how they effect the members of Renderosity?

SInce the "Change Over", I have been left to feel "The Marketplace" (not the Merchants, but the Owners) have given up on the value of the Members that post at the Renderosity Gallery. It appears that any action that 'rocks the boat', is swept aside. I have heard lots of complaints, I have seen lots of Members and Merchants banned, I have seen many other Member just leave on principle, and as with all of them, I get the same "Texas Two Step"; "We only discuss these problems directly with the Member!"!

I ask: Is there any attempt by the Owners to look into these matters, and weigh their effect their Bottom line?

As an Artist, an image comes to mind: A Suggestion Box inside an office, with the other end droping into a garbage can in the back alley. :(

Upon reading this, all I can think of is "Never put anything incriminating in writing" LOL ;op

Well, the thought of this has come across my mind as well... I wouldnt doubt it, actually. While Im not gonna sit here and say oh yeah, they do that... the possibility is evident. And comon'... if they do read emails, do we really expect an admission?? Thing is, since its an internet based company, they can make rules such as this stick... and since you have to agree to it before gaining admission, theres not much you can do, except not use email/IMs/whatever the heck you wanna call it, to communicate. Esp when the innocence thereof is in question. 

On the other hand, if you read mine, youd know Im pretty much over Rendo. This used to be such a fun place, and now all the fun has been replaced with terror, anger and even rebelliousness to all the rules that suddenly keep popping up out of nowhere. Not to mention controversies possibly being exposed every other day. Rendo has basically turned into a souless hollow beast that seems to only be interested in money. I mean, look at all the new ads that cheapen the look of the site. I think instead of implementing that crap, you should have fixed the site speed issues for those who complained. I cant help but think those ads slow things down as well. Ive seen so many members leave of their own volition in the last so many weeks - and others banned (unfairly, IMHO) and no doubt theres more to come. Its just not the Rendo we called home anymore.

And you can argue that its just my opinion, but many others share it too. A billion chinese people cant be wrong when they say the rice is bad. I think the perfect imagery to convey what I and many others feel is just like Dennis said - A garbage can on the other end of a suggestion box. Sorry if this offends... I have nothing against the admin and I know youre just doing your jobs. I have a strict policy of never shooting the messenger... unless, of course, theyre packing heat LOL

Quote - Just an FYI, the copyright agent posted a final comment in the locked copyright forum thread in case any are interested in some of the facts.

seems its one rule for the members and one for the admin...and this is definitely an us and them scenario stacey.....one admin closes a thred...anthoer, yourself...says it was locked because it was non productive and all the other crap and 5 hours or so later a member of the admin posts in a locked thread.......how and why can this be.....if its locked it's locked and should be for everyone.

thing is the admin have now set a precedent. they did what you said they would not.....now if someone starts a thread to refute what was said..re the warnings...one of them being a mistake...will the thread be locked......i find it reprhensibale that a tactic of posting to a locked thread was used in order that no response can be given.....ihave to say the ethical standards here suck....and please dont use the same arguement as the agent and say the mearchant brought it up first......agent broke you're own rules now go give her a warning.....and please ask karen to keep her finger away from the lockdown button.

billy

The copyright agent wasn't on until after the thread was started, not moving in a productive manner and after it was locked. And let me clear up the reason the thread was locked was 1. because the discussion wasn't for productive reasons in the first place  2.  the vendor came in and posted emails that she wasn't given permission to post.

JenyK being the copyright agent wanted to set the record straight since the vendor came in and gave half truths of the story.  If you all want to start a thread in the copyrigth forum regarding this to discuss with JenyK, pleaes feel free.   Karen and the rest of the team last night and early this morning did what was best for that time.  The copyright agent, decided to give the facts from her reviews of the issue since the vendor wanted it public. Thats it.

See how it goes? If you say nothing (which we couldn't because the vendor hadn't brought it publically herself at that time) we are horrible,  once it was brought public by the person with the copyright concern herself and the copyright agent decided to give the facts, that is horrible to?

Yeah I suppose she could have put it in a different thread?

Sorry but we are human too and this gets really really frustrating. I am sick today and if I am being harsh I apologize

you suppose it could have been said in a new thread.....and please don't put words in our mouths....the admin posted in a locked thread...highly unethical and highly bogus. i wasn't on till after the lockdown...why couldn't i post in the thread....we're human too stacey.....it seems that the admin are allowed to be more human than the members from where i'm sitting.....again you use the non productive reason for the lock down...you say they placed a personal mail in post..then remove the post ......again sorry but it sems the admin are lock happy,

billy

Also let me add that Billy you started another thread about this in the copyright forum so from this point if this thread continues it needs be regarding the original topic of the site mails which I have answered several times already.

Any comments regarding the copyright thread needs to go in the copyright forum so you can get the appropriate person(s) responding.

so why post a link of it here ???????

hows this....you say you only read mail if someone complains or someone harrasses someone else..........sorry but all this is bullshit YOU READ PEOPLES E MAILS then complain when they show one of yours that leaves you in a bad light.......if you don't think this is pertinant i dont know what is

 

billy

Because it was talked about in this thread Billy, then you started another thread in the copyrigth forum with your same issue so you can discuss it in that thread that you just started 

Site mails are on the Renderosity site, emails are not they go through the email clients. Site Mails are addressed in our TOS to which you agreed when joining this site Billy.  You agreed to the TOS when joining right? It was there then so I'm really confused about the sudden issue with it?

 

 

 

You know i want to have a completely different additude about this and praise everybody for doing a great job...and being so very smart as this is such a sticky subject..Now if the place lightened up on its rules and took just a little more into consideration and maybe thought how can we be nice and run a bussiness too.people might want to actually help and be more considerate themselves...really i have never found this kind of bickering helpful and think maybe another aproach is neccesary.i do like this place alot and find it very unique and in all my years here i have never seen this kind of stuff happening or maybe i wasnt paying attention...but now i am paying attention and see there are issues that arent getting any better bickering..and after this set of threads i see that communication is the main problem..i left here on my own but now have second thoughts that i am abbandoning a place i like..and i think it was a personnel message from dennisreed that made me take another look and maybe make a plan..and maybe give another chance to working on making it better..now i am doing this on faith that someone else wants it better also.and hopefully the administration will see this as a kind thing and try to be kinder and have a little more consideration ,I will too.who knows?we have tried everything else...I find it easier to deal with people who like each other and me and this sure isnt building any bridges.

It doesn't leave staff in a bad light. If a member of staff communicates with a member, that communication is between the staff and that particular member..when that member is not happy about whatever was in that communication, sends that communication to someone else, and that someone then proceeds to post that communication, or even parts of it,  all over the site, or even in one post in the public view in retaliation, instead of keeping it where it belongs, then it becomes an offense.

If a staff member is required to read any mails of any member for the reasons mentioned {harrassment, threats, etc.} they do not go out into the public forums announcing what was said..they deal with members in private. And they only deal with that member, and nobody else. So anyone coming in to defend whoever, is not going to get the answer they are seeking, because the issue is not with them, but with another member.....

Again, staff does not activaly run around reading everyones emails/sitemails

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

a site mail is still an e'mail and i'm sure you know what i meant stacy.

As stated several times now, we do this only in cases that require it, harrassment complaints, threat complaints, etc.  whats the etc........ cos from what i read in the mail that was posted, what was being said had nothing to do with the first three.......oh and i abide by the tos...does it say a member can't query it or ask questions about something within it when it's raised in the forum....right?........so why the confusion? all i saw in your responses to this thread were adamant no's unless of the things mentioned. etc bing one of them.....nice. so i take it etc covers any reason you deem fit. even if it means reading what people say you don't like or have bugged you.........throwing the light onto something else in order to darken the view of another is an old trick sadly it's also a common one...you can't blur the lines ...THE ADMIN DO READ THE MAILS they can do this anytime they wish they don't need a reason.......i'm mentioning it because you seem to be making this point obscure......the etc in your reply means this.......as you said IT"S IN THE TOS........so when asked the original question a simple yes would have sufficed instead of all the rhetoric.....

billy

ps you can have the last word stacey cos i reall am sick of the bullshit

The little demonstration from JenyK is a joke. We are talking here about Aiko poses and no about V3 poses.
For me its a big diffrent.       

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

Lets keep this thread confined to the site mail issues as Stacey has asked.

Thanks!

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

jumping back in here for a moment...

Stacey, I was reading through the now-locked thread located in the Copyright Forum (originally posted to the Poser Forum) and I noticed something interesting.

Without my commenting on the rightness or wrongness of it having been included, there IS a site mail or email (not sure which it is) being quoted in that thread...it's from a rosity admin to a member...I guess it's from DebbieM (it was a little hard for me to follow all the whos, whats & whens in that thread...if I'm wrong on who it's from, I apologize to DebbieM in advance)...but it quotes the rosity admin regarding this very topic of reading members' private messages...

So last night during the discussion you and I had here, in all of the specific scenarios I asked about whether admins would resort to reading member's private messages, I'll concede that I did NOT describe a scenario that matches the topic of that now-locked thread...I concede that point right up front. But with the wide variety of scenarios I DID describe, you had no trouble insisting that, of course not, members' messages wouldn't be reviewed by any of the admins in those circumstances...

Yet, I was really amazed that in DebbieM's mail message she jumped at the opportunity to emphasize that members' site mails & emails could be monitored. It really leaves quite a different impression on this topic compared to the No, No, No, No, No, No answers you gave me last night. I would also point out that one of the scenarios I described to you was a dispute between a merchant and the admins (a little different topic, but not TOTALLY out in left field) and your response was still "No".

The scenario in that locked thread wasn't a case of harrassment or threat...though I guess you'll say it's covered by that fuzzy "etc" you always included...

Still, the conspicuous willingness DebbieM expressed to in fact scrutinize private messages appears quite out-of-step with the impression you left us with last night on this subject.

Check out my full gallery at Cliff-Dweller Artworks

We can start enconding our messages, we can use any kid's code as A is Z and Z is A.
Even using simple codes, each member's group using their own kid's code multiplying by the number of members and IMs it will be just enough for making any Bush more mad than already he is!

Svool Dliow!

Stupidity also evolves!

So, if you have your doubts about your e-mails, what you are going to do? No writing? You have been monitored everywhere. There are a lot of control idiots out there; this community is no exception whatever explanation you get. The paranoia and the control will take over one day. Do not worry about that. That should tell you what kind of society we are living in today.

Quote - We can start enconding our messages ...

ROT26 would be the best choice.

The scenario in that locked thread wasn't a case of harrassment or threat...though I guess you'll say it's covered by that fuzzy "etc" you always included...

Yes, it was. The member had been accused of spamming other members.

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

karen1573 said:

Quote - The scenario in that locked thread wasn't a case of harrassment or threat...though I guess you'll say it's covered by that fuzzy "etc" you always included...

Yes, it was. The member had been accused of spamming other members.

Yes, it was...what??

Certainly you're not suggesting "spamming" is harrassment? Certainly you're not suggesting "spamming" is a threat?

[BTW, If I followed that locked thread correctly, I understood that the merchant demonstrated the messages had been sent from their own computer using Outlook Express and NOT on R'osity's mail system...but (as requested by jumpstartme2 & StaceyG) that merchant's situation is not the subject of this thread.]

If you go back and re-read my post, you'll see that my actual point was how DebbieM jumped at the opportunity to emphasize that members' site mails & emails could be monitored and how that left a totally different impression on this matter compared to the "No, No, No" answers Stacey had given.

From Stacey I heard basically this: We consider members private messages to be just that...PRIVATE. But in extreme situations such as if someone is being harassed or threatened by another member, we might, reluctantly, have to read member's mail.

From DebbieM's statements I almost got this impression: Reading members' private messages...sure, no problem.

Sorry, it's just the way it comes across to me. I guess I think the members are entitled to know which it is rather than having a widely different threashold or standard depending on which admin you just happen to be dealing with at the time.

Check out my full gallery at Cliff-Dweller Artworks

"Posted Wed, Sep 27, 2006 10:27 am, Edited Wed, Sep 27, 2006 10:31 am

When will the changeover be completed? Thanks." (mps)

???

Thanks.

"My statement about "whingeing" wasn't in any way about the site speed, I also ticked the box to say it is much slower than other sites and I share and understand that frustration, although since my upgrade to IE7 it appears faster" ----  (thefixer - above) .............

Hello, kind soul:

To my simple thinking, this is a central 'issue' for all members at this most wonderful site. One which was directly and indirectly dismissed for far too long.

Many of the other 'whinings', I and others here have expressed, can likewise be traced to such dismissiveness toward members relating to a myriad of questions, concerns and comments.

From my humble perspective, it's one thing for members and management to have disagreements. That will happen.  It's quite another, however, when either side of an issue gives no 'creedence' to the other's viewpoints.

Thanks for your comment regarding site speed above. If you have followed the long, littany of posts regarding site speed at this most wonderful site, you surely have seen it posted more times than an FBI ten most wanted lists in all the American Post Offices. By countless, different members over YEARS. (Attempt here at HUMOR?)

Yet, in many instances, those 'whinings' were answered with statements similar to, "Well, MY computer is running FAST" for this site, by many management staff. ???

So, that begs the next stupid question from this old geezer: Is the current site speed poll NOT true? Are all the members telling falsehoods? Could it be that the members actually DID have problems in this area? For years?

All the members are saying, for the most part, kind soul, is to LISTEN to them. Let them KNOW that they are HEARD. Then, instead of ruffing things off or just not even responding to honest questions, just answer people. Honestly.

If the management decides that they are not going to do something a member(s) requests, just say so. Upfront. No evading answers. No non-responses to questions, whatsoever.

Give them the best, possible time frames for when things will be finished. Even a 'best guess' reply that can be later updated as progress or lack of progress may warrant is better than nothing or "I don't know". Or, "I think".

In my past business dealings, kind soul, I learned one thing quickly:

I judged the number of 'whinings' I received from employees as a fairly good judge/measure of how well the employees felt they were being received and treated. Simple as that, my friend.

I also learned ''which'' people who whined were whining about true ''problems'' in my manufacturing facility or just whining to whine. Understand? And, as mad as I was to hear such 'whinings', if I was getting them from proven, reliable people who had lodged past complaints which I found to be 'accurate', I LISTENED.

IF an employee 'whined' to me about his machine not running as fast as it normally ran (less parts produced - less profits for company - less wages for employees) or about his machine making too many 'defective' parts (same reasons in above parentheses), I considered that employee a GREAT employee! The kind of employee ANY company should WANT. Understand?

For, to dumb old my way of thinking, kind soul, I WANTED my employees to tell me if and when they were having troubles in my factory. For, it made it bad for ALL of us who worked there. Management AND employees. One needs the other to make it the BEST environment. Simple as that, from my humble perspective.

Like two people dancing. It works best when they both are in 'unison', agreed?

Are there some who only 'whine'? Sure. Always will be.

I just continually see LONG time members leaving this most wonderful site. YEARS of experience. LOTS of friendships which then makes this site GROW and prosper even more.

I would think that an artistic website would want to have the most prolific and talented artists at their site and for them to STAY forever. So, when a person came to view this most wonderful site for the first time, they would see what COULD be done in these artistic endeavors.

When I first view a new site, kind soul, I don't look first to 'how many' members they have on it. I first look at HOW GOOD the artworks at that site are. Numbers, in art sites, to me at least, are irrelevant.

Finally, to StaceyG: Hello, kind soul.

 I see above, earlier, where someone told you, "THAT'S BULLSHIT!"

How is it that you answered that reply but not one of mps earlier inquiring as to when the ''changeover'' will be completed? Even a 'best guess" estimate.

 Does one need to cuss and swear and say WTF? in threads to get answers to sincere questions? If so, let me know. WINK.

Btw: is TOS applicable to either above, two examples? SMILE.

PEACE to you and yours. Thanks, in advance, for any/all help.

My best,

TallPockets.

I also see, above, where DennisReed, asked a couple of questions. He even numbered each one for easier referencing.

From my humble perspective, when you've gotten to the point that the Dennis Reed's of this site are in this 'forum' asking such things, you've accomplished alot!  (sad truth). ~SIGH~

I hope Mr. Reed will, indeed, get his above two questions replied to here.

THANKS, again.

My best,

TallPockets.

Spamming is an abuse of the Renderosity mail system. If we have a claim from someone that they're receiving spam then we obviously need to check into that.

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

Quote - Spamming is an abuse of the Renderosity mail system. If we have a claim from someone that they're receiving spam then we obviously need to check into that.

Just wondering..then, if someone doesn't like me, or just wan to harm me or something, can they just tell the Staff that I've been spamming them, and then you will look into my IM and e-mails? Doesn't sounds good.

We can't look into your emails but if you are reported for spamming members we will first try to get a copy of the spam Site mail from the person making the complaint and if we show it looks like a spam mail then we will research to find out if this is indeed the case.

 

Tallpockets, this thread is about site mails, not site speed. there are already thread(s) regarding this so please post your questions in the appropriate thread

Well, I'm gonna bow out of this discussion as there seems to be little progress being made on the subject and few other members seem concerned about it.

I still don't believe the matter has been addressed here (and I've asked a couple of times) regarding the apparent discrepency in attitudes among admins regarding monitoring/reading members' private messages...ranging from StaceyG's obvious reluctance to look at our private messages to DebbieM's clear willingness to do so. Other members can continue to press this issue if they're interested.

And for the record, let's not forget that the original accusation made by the admin against the merchant discussed in the locked thread about using Rosity's messaging system for 'spamming" turned out to be a false accusation.

{waves to Hedda Hi hon...nice to see you...how's ya doin'? }

Check out my full gallery at Cliff-Dweller Artworks

Cliff-dweller

 

The bottom line for you and other members is that the TOS states (and everyone agreed to the TOS when joining and this section has been there for a long long time) if needed we can review site mails. We do not MONITOR site mails, we don't just go in for no good reason and read. Debbie didn't go in and read the site mails or the error in thinking the spams were coming from Renderosity sytems wouldn't have happened so she hasn't got a "clear willingness" to do so or she would have then. She was letting the person know that if we got reports of this again she could and would which is totally understandable.

So that is the answer to the question plain and simple.

What I have asked several times and no one seems to want to answer is  why would you agree in the first place then now act shocked? I just can't get my hands around that because if I had questions about what that meant, I would have asked upon reading the TOS when registering. All members can rest assured that as long as you aren't abusing the Renderosity systems by threatening, harrassing, attacking and spamming we aren't concerned about what is in your Site Mails. That is the way its always been and the way it will continue to be.  As stated the only time this happens is when there is good reason to,  so anyone who isn't using the Renderosity mail system to do the things listed above, don't have to be concerned with anyone reading their site mails.

While I am at it let me also be clear that if we have to review site mails for the above listed behaviors, we aren't looking at everything there, we are looking at the direct mail to the person being threatened, attacked, harrassed or spammed. And we can tell that without drilling into the site mails each but by looking at subject line and username sent to.

 

I'm not sure how much more clear I can answer the original question than how I have.

What I have asked several times and no one seems to want to answer is  why would you agree in the first place then now act shocked? I just can't get my hands around that because if I had questions about what that meant, I would have asked upon reading the TOS when registering

Maybe because the TOS is written in Legalise and there are quite a few members who English is not their first language and would have a hard time reading it. hell, my first language is english and I have a hard time reading it. (and I can read perfectly well.) add in the fact a lot of ppl just click through or if they don't understand something they don't ask because they feel asking makes them look foolish, etc. (My wife teaches ESL at University and often has to overcome a students pride in these areas.. trust me, its something that happens a lot)

also add in the fact the TOS is written for the laws of where Rendo is based. those laws do not always apply in other countries (yes I know it's stated that the laws of tennasee apply, but does everyone know this? no, it's in the TOS......) causing more confusion into the mix.

may I suggest you get someone to sit down and ethier make the TOS with a simpler language set or do a FAQ breaking down each section? that would help a lot of the ppl that are in the ESL situation (or like me, how find the TOS harder going than reading LOTR)

Hi Stacey, thank you for your response...I do appreciate it and also think it is the sort of comprehensive answer I was asking for...so, I thank you again.

In exchange, I will try to answer YOUR question, though perhaps you meant it to be a rhetorical question to make a point rather than actually seeking an answer. Here's one anyway...

When I joined Rosity, I was interested in looking at the tutorials and at uploading images. I'm sure I looked at the TOS at the time, but I think we'd both agree it's a rather long document (probably out of necessity)...right now it's about 4 full page screens (and that's using a much smaller font size than was in place when I joined) plus there are links within the TOS that take you to other pages (such as the copyright policy). It's a lot to read & absorb and I'm sure I focused the most on the parts of the site that I wanted to use. That's just human nature and most of us aren't lawyers used to reading lengthy legalese documents. If it was there when I joined, I probably saw the part about private messages, but since I didn't know anyone here that I'd be sending IM's to, I wouldn't have paid as much attention to it as say the gallery policies, so it didn't sink in...my mistake, to be sure, but again just human nature.

As you also know, for many members here, English is not the language they normally use, so there may be issues in fully understanding all of the parts of the TOS. I'm not saying that's your fault, but you ask "why" people might be surprised at site mail being monitored...they may never have fully understood those sections of the TOS.

Stacey, you have to work with the TOS everyday as part of your job. I expect you know it inside and out...probabaly better than any other admin here and that's quite commendable. The run-of-the-mill Rosity member hasn't memorized the TOS, and I don't think you really expect us to. Most of us know (or should know) the TOS sections that directly affect the parts of the site we use. So MY first reaction to this subject was, huh, I would think private messages are private.

So that's the answer to your question. If a member is being harrassed or threatened, I fully support the admins using all the tools available to them to put an end to that sort of behavior, including checking private messages...and I think most other people would agree. But I think you and I can also agree that there have been on-going concerns by the membership about whether Rosity rules & guidelines are always enforced equally & equitably from member-to-member or by admin-to-admin...as hard as you might try to discuss issues and reach a consensus view, differences can & do develop. So I have been pursuing this subject with that on-going concern in mind. Maybe DebbieM was saying the exact same thing you were on this subject, or maybe there are differences in views between the two of you...it doesn't really matter to me at this point.

Anyway, that's why some us were surprised. I would guess you've experienced the same sort of thing at some point in your own life, maybe a clause in a bank account policy burried back on page 33 you didn't know existed that suddenly had some relevence to you, or an insurance policy that excludes on page 16 the one thing you needed covered. It happens whenever documents are lengthy and it really shouldn't surprise you that it could happen at Rosity, too...imho.

Thanks again...peace to you, Jen

Check out my full gallery at Cliff-Dweller Artworks

...bit of a cross post with Khai...who probably explained it better anyway!

Check out my full gallery at Cliff-Dweller Artworks

I understand Khai and cliff-dweller, I do.  

I can assure you of the fact that we use this ability very carefully as we do respect the privacy of our members and only in situations that it becomes necessary do we use that ability.  Since I have been here, its only become necessary a handful of times. Thankfully most members that are getting harrassed, threatened, etc forward us the direct communications so its not even necessary to view the site mails.

"Thankfully most members that are getting harrassed, threatened, etc forward us the direct communications so its not even necessary to view the site mails."

As it should be, Stacy. A big Amen to that!!

Quote - Spamming is an abuse of the Renderosity mail system. If we have a claim from someone that they're receiving spam then we obviously need to check into that.

@Karen1573
Why you dont checked out first if it is really spam?
Fact is, bluemoon offers some Freebies on her site. To download this files you must sign in. And you know, if i sign in i accept the terms of use from this site. 
And bluemoons terms says, that she can send you offers from her store.
If you dont want to recieve offers, just a quick mail is enough and she pull you from her maillist.
After all, you dindt check anything. And this is sad.  You just wrote bluemoon a warning. Thats all.

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

i don';t know if what ladona says is true or not but it does bring up a valid point.

 

say i have my own site. a freebie i have here directs them to my site. to get the freebie one has to accept the terms of my site which say you'll accept mail from my site (spam)..you join and take the freebie......now you get spam from my site and i'm a vendor and rendo.......the person complains to rendo they're getting spammed by a rendo member......remembering they agreed to accept the spam so as to get the freebie.  where does the spammer and the spammee in cases like this stand. 

billy

As Stacey stated, the person usually forwards us the site mail directly.

If someone said "I'm getting spammed by Billy" when we'd ask "how"? and go from there.

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

and i'd reply they generated it themselves by hacking into my system because we had a fall out because i allowed her to have 3oo pounds worth of product because hse asked for credit and wouldn't pay when the time came that she had to......or....she my ex girlfriend who trying to slur me. and hse has access to my machine...or i'd just fabricate part of her e'mail to show she asked for me to send her stuff .......or i'd send a hit man round and cap her.....or and this is the best one.......specially if i sent the spam from my personal site and not from rendo.....get my lawyer to issue you with a writ.......for restriction of trade........then i'd get an injunction to stop you trading untill i had had my final day in court.......under the us law i think i am entitled to ask for that...i'd make sure i dragged the case out as long as i could........i would quote posts wher rendo has sent out spam but is still allowed to trade. in tandom with that id start litigation as to the validity of your tos and how it's implimented. of your incorrect use of copyrite laws and the way those in power make criminal allegations to its members. i being a member could do this withoput having actually being libled.......the cost would'nt be as much as what you'd expect. i have a few legal friends. i'd also take out legal insurance to cover such an eventuality with specifics......not being a poor man i could probably make it last a couple of years. all that said i'm just giving hypothetical answers lol...apart for the litigation. yes i know it would have to be in tennesses. if i can afford to live in manila where realestate is as expensive as london and commute back and forth to see my kids i'm pretty sure i could drum up enough cash as i say to at least start proceeding and close anyone down if they tried to close me down for no apparent or unfair reason........i gather the person accused of spamming didn't actually spam...that the spmas cane from rendo itself.....or am i mistaken

 

billy.

Quote - .....get my lawyer to issue you with a writ.......for restriction of trade........then i'd get an injunction to stop you trading untill i had had my final day in court.......under the us law i think i am entitled to ask for that...i'd make sure i dragged the case out as long as i could........i would quote posts wher rendo has sent out spam but is still allowed to trade. in tandom with that id start litigation as to the validity of your tos and how it's implimented. of your incorrect use of copyrite laws and the way those in power make criminal allegations to its members. i being a member could do this withoput having actually being libled.......the cost would be as much as what you'd expect. i have a few legal friends. i'd also take out legal insurance to cover such an eventuality with specifics......not being a poor man i could probably make it last a couple of years. all that said i'm just giving hypothetical answers lol...apart for the litigation. yes i know it would have to be in tennesses. if i can afford to live in manila where realestate is as expensive as london and commute back and forth to see my kids i'm pretty sure i could drum up enough cash as i say to at least start proceeding and close anyone down if they tried to close me down for no apparent or unfair reason..

Ummmm site mail monitoring issues remember?

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

the mails i show wouldn't have been sent through rendo.

any mails that weren't,  that you show or use would show you to be breaking the law.

billy

Billy, we're talking about site mail... I must confess I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to?

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

neither am i

 

rotflmao

 

billy

I suppose the big question is can anyone confirm that our private mail is never read unless a concern has been raised?

 If a concern is raised is the member notified that their mail is going to be read?

How much evidence is needed before someone reads the mail?

 Are we sure that no-one gets the urge just to peak at someone's mail?

For example if someone accused me of spamming through the IM what evidence would you require before you read my mail?

 

personally i don't really care who reads my mail or why. nothing interesting in them apart from some very hot discusions about ethics lmao oh

billy

 

I can assure you from my end, Moderators don't have access to anyone's site mail but our own.  The only way I could read something you wrote would be:

1. if you wrote to me.
2. if someone you wrote to forwarded it to me.

And, since Moderators have more access to site functions, it stands to reason that Coordinators do not have access to your site mail, either.

That would leave the handful of admins.  Who, while I've never watched over their shoulder while they worked (let alone met face to face), are very trustworthy people, and also don't have enough time in their day to go through anyone's site mail willy-nilly ;)

Jeni

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Okay, wondering just how many children, or folks who don't really have a clue or are just a wee bit ignorant are online here? Or do so many just want to make a fuss for the sake of joining the bandwagon and making a fuss?!

I suggest this only because of all the mishmash garbled here.

Sometimes I think folks just want a reason to whine and vent, or they'd sure find better things to gripe about like the hot twenty or naked stuff or big boobs or too many fairies in the gallery or so many other online cult classics of familiarity around here days gone by and so on and forevermore.

I suppose I just think there's really no reason to jump at Rendo about all this, it's all so stupid, what they supposed to do? They're really not doing anything different than any other place nor are they doing anything so worth hooting and screaming about like so many are doing here!

Not this time, well, other than being kind of evasive and dancing around, probably because they just don't really know what to say a lot of times; and what else is new huh, better to dance and be evasive than feel kinda at a loss at what to say. 

 Listen up!

Just an FYI.

Did you all know that ANY isp can access your e-mail, not just Rendo?

So why you making it JUST a Rendo thing?

It's the SAME not only on ANY FORUM to be able to ACCESS not only e-mails and PRIVATE MESSAGES, (which are not so private at all and probably the least PRIVATE, so I'm not so sure why the lovely description, but oh well, get over it, it's a way to gab online, and so is chat and msn and so many other PRIVATE ways, yet they are not so PRIVATE as we would like to believe in any way, shape or form), but  did you not know that ANY place hosting e-mails or communications online, including YOUR PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT and/or SCHOOLS or for that matter, any place you inscribe something online that gets logged or saved CAN do the SAME??!! Just like YOU, on your personal computers at home, CAN access all the same DATA anyone documents or uses on your computer no matter how many users/guests you have!! And yes, even after it's deleted!!!

As long as you know HOW, and it's not hard! Not at all!! A baby could do it with the right access!!

And did you know that once on a server, ANY server, ANYTHING and EVERYTHING is most certainly logged until it is at some point PURGED by a person qualified/responsible and doing that PURGING???

And did you know that even THEN it CAN still be retrieved if and when necessary?

Unless a GIANT stomps on the hard drive with BIG feet or some BIG magnet happens by or it's shot into outer space or there's a hard drive melting fire.

Did you also know that it is NOT COMMON for isp's and probably Rendo to access PERSONAL e-mails for ANY reason unless absolutely necessary, such as harrassment/court orders/warrants or worser concerns? Why would they offer personal communication just to snoop and be voyuers, I mean, what kind of business would do that unless they wanted to trace habits of their users so they can market better? There are plenty of them folks out there, but I think there are enough skilled folks as members here that would clue in quickly and/or track being tracked in such a ways if that were so!

BUT do not ever kid yourselves!!

It may well be illegal for any Joe Blow to access your accounts and browse your e-mails, (not talking private messages because they're just not the same and just a forum thing falling under forum TOS and forum scrutiny and how much those forums adhere to their own suggested principles, we'll really never know, only they will on they're side and you if your on that side peeking in or not), however, I will tell you one very CERTAIN FACT, e-mails ARE accessable!! And if there is a suggested valid reason it's quite amazing how something documented, (and everything online IS nowadays documented someways), can be held against you, no matter how bad a moment you might have been having or how drunk you were or how stupid or angry, it's a DOCUMENT and it CAN be held against you just as anything I write here can be right now if it were something awful!!

I've known people who have had charges laid against them only because of what they wrote into e-mails as proof; I've known people FIRED from  their jobs because their places of employment found out they were spending more complany time on personal e-mails and/or browsing personal sites, (like forums) while they were supposed to be working, and I've even known people to lose their schooling because of same!!

I'll tell you one more for the road, TODAY, this last year alone, many companies have started (secretly) hiring SPECIFIC task forces, and all these task forces do all day is look into company servers to SEE what the employees are doing all day ONLINE and yes, what kind of e-mails they communicate and what they browse online!! Why?? Because there are just too many people abusing company time; and time theft is what it's called and believe me there's a LOT of it, that's why they're doing this; and yes, it CAN be a reason to find you LET GO suddenly due to restructuring really fast, or just outright FIRED!!!

I've seen it many times, and just another person a month ago, she was a friend, she had no idea her habituals online at work were logged and peeped at and eventually also used against her as lost time when her company was trying to find a REASON to downsize and say byebye to the nests of slackers!

So think hard next time so many of you may jump online here or anywhere while doing your daily routines and KNOW it's being logged too, nevermind your e-mails sitting pretty for anyone to see that may have a reason to see them if need be and/or someone finds you a suspect to anything.

And don't go crying ILLEGAL, apparently it IS quite legal and valid for any company to peep at their own servers anytime at whatever YOU do while employed by them using their equipment! As for personal time and forums and home computers, even they are not safe havens if there is suspicion of you being some kind of suspect or weirdo doing weirdo things online. What you type and/or upload is documented somewhere and can be seen until purged appropriately and not by your mouse clicking deletes either.  

The internet and computer is probably the easiest way to catch people doing what they think nobody will ever know or see, and well, I guess you could say it leaves the best FINGERPRINTS you could ever leave wherever you go and whatever you do or say!

People can be so naive, and if your talking about the same people that drive around day after day thinking that just because they are in their cars with the window rolled up they are invisible, then any wonder so many really have no clue they may be leaving so many various computer/online entrails everywhere nowadays. 

Suppose it wasn't always like that, so goes the wonders of advancements and the beauty of the net huh? May as well have a tracking device built into every one of us while online nowadays because the moment your online, it's the same thing, your just a tattoo of what you do.

Unless your a tracker and know how to remain trackless; and the average computer person sure don't or you certainly wouldn't get conversations such as this thread.

Now, shall I start up about cell phones and blackberries and...??

Naaw, another time.

Sure, perhaps someone will come on with a smartass remark here. I'm not meaning this in a bad way at all, I just don't understand why so many slap on Renderosity about all this when it's not really something wicket or bad, it's just the common sense internet/and computers nowadays; in fact they couldn't give you this forum without the software you sign on to use, so what's the gripe??

Do you all do the same with all your isp's and online chatting devices and dating services and even when you browse or google or play online games??? Do you yell at your own computers for leaving a trail behind?? Because I tell you, SOMEONE is able to watch you or perhaps is tracking your every move no matter WHAT you do!! So start complaining at all places online and all forums online and everyone and everything online if your going to nitpick about all this here, because it's no different except for different admins and folks running it all, and some places you go online to I'm certain have no TOS at all and your still ONLINE bigtime!!

Hey look, I know folks that have been AWAKENED the hard way, I also know folks that work in this field, and I myself work with this stuff enough to know what gets logged on a server too, EVERYTHING!!

Excuse me, time for my bath now; and when I'm done my dirt will go down the drain for anyone to see somewhere in the river or the big lake...glub..   

 

  

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

all i see is someone whining about whiners..You missed the issue...Did you read armour beasts thread that was locked?Its about a threat that was made toward a merchant..and the validity of reading mail to further persecute somone.This is a valid issue...i dont think whining about the people you think are whiners helps the issue at hand.

alledgedly. whilst i think it''s good to discuss what seems like some kind of missconduct they do have the right to read our rendo mails.....i'm afraid it isn't persecution as such....an over extention of whats ethical maybe but it's not persicution to tell someone what your rules say you're allowed to do. if rendo sent out an email to every member and said WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO READ YOUR MAILS FROM RENDO......it would be a valid mail. lets face it...thats what it says in the tos. whether it's persecution or not only the person sending and the person receiving can know. not even armorbeast can know if its persicution or not cos the vendor he spoke up for may not have shown him some relevant mail. like us he can only voice an opinion about what he's been shown.

billy