You know when they start offering free Poser 5 that Poser 7 is not too far behind.   I swore off Poser several monthes ago and chucked all my CD's of downloaded stuff because I was frustrated that I would never be able to use the program as an animator and figured I should fined a better use for my time.  But then...I came back here to the animation board and Woah! there is a mocap program for the layman on the horizon!  This of course means dick to you "still artists" but moshi...maybe....And then I saw that E-Frontier was offering free Poser 5 for a limited time which I mmissed.  But thats OK  because then I saw that they were still giving the program away for 20 bucks.

Anyway I jumped at the bait but I found that I was too late and had to pay the whopping sum of $20 for Poser 5...but! I got a coupon to buy $10 worth of stuff in the content paradise. 

You longtimers here will remember that before P5 came out that they offering bagain basement prices on P4. 

If you're still reading my drivel then my own opinion is that if P7 doesn't deliver then the whole "Poser" franchise is gone and nobody will beive a word they say again.

 

 

don't be too hasty in assuming that mocap thing is gonna be cheap or simple. maybe you'd be better off buying canned bvh files. p7 may come out in march 2007 (along with leopard and vista), but animation will still be just as opaque IMVHO.

Quote - maybe you'd be better off buying canned bvh files.

Or learn to rotoscope, like the rest of us.

as i said 1 day after poser 6 came out they would never fix bugs properly or it's shoddy design, and that poser 7 will be arriving within 1 to 2 years.

Dont hold ya breath because if it's same programers who did 5 and six you wont find many people buy 7, though thier be loads people will own it.

Im lucky as have 5 free download and me mates brother has let me have his poser 6 now as he is working in south east asia and japan for next 4 years aint i lucky.

still use me poser 4 though still brill program.

cant wait to get vue 6 update as the money is burrning a hole in me pocket.

 

I just hope p7 fix the memory problem. plus makes it for the 64biter. I did get the free p5, I don't know why I already have it. I guess it was that four letter work FREE.

David J Harmon
davidjharmon.com

how does it smell?..;)  I barely understand 4, just got the free 5 ( we won't be making the same mistakes. Yeah, we'll be making all New ones..-Jurassic Park series..;) so I'm good for awhile. Dang program has more rooms than my trailer..;) Maybe by the time I get 5 figured out, 7 will be here, and they'll have free 6..the upgrade path for the extremely patient..;)

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

Or learn to rotoscope, like the rest of us.

How does one learn to rotoscope?

I've been eyeing that Rotoscoper Python script PhilC made, but I'm not sure I'll be able to learn to use it.

Rotoscoping is simple once you understand the process.  You take one or more video views of a particular motion and place them into your 3D scene (as background animation or textured onto cubes/planes).  You then must line up the target figure to overlap the figure in the video(s) and you start posing to match the video - one keyframe at a time.

The problem with rotoscoping - especially from one video view - is that you don't have all of the information - unless you recorded it yourself and planned well ahead (markers like for motion capture systems).  It can be difficult to determine what rotations/translations represent the actual orientations/positions of the video actions.  You'll need to understand anatomical dynamics to avoid awkward poses and you'll need to check orthogonal views to avoid them as well.

It is painstaking work, but the results are far more realistic than simple animation but not as good as quality motion capture.  One advantage over motion capture is that you can do this with interpolated keyframes instead of time-sampled keys (which take up oodles of memory).

Robert

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

I was just joking about poser animation being difficult (opaque), horndog. :lol: it's very easy to use IMVHO. but if it was too complex for anybody in P4-5-6, it ain't gonna be any easier in P7. even if P7 and its associated OS can access 16 GB RAM, poser will continue to become more complex (and expensive) with time, as they try to bring it up to speed with the professional 3D modeller/renderer apps.

You raise a good point, Miss Nancy.  I was just discussing the apparent shift of C4D in the newest release towards a definitely CA-studio target.  The prices are rising and the areas of enhancement bear [sic?] this out.

To the point, what are the Poser developer's goals?  The first instantiation of poser was as a simple posable 3D figure for artists who didn't have models to pose for them.  Now it is a pretty-much complete 3D figure assembly studio with animation and affordable render capabilities.  What is their goal in the pursuit of advancing Poser?

The thing is that Poser has two basic directions to take (being over simplistic).  It can flounder into a basic hobbyist CA app - possibly becoming just a source of content for other apps.  Or it can move to the next level - pricing about double ($600) and start to implement real support for rendering, undos, and other lackluster/archaic features.  Already, Vue, Carrara, and Daz|Studio have rudimentary Poser support void of Poser itself.  Cinema 4D as well (no comments).  In other words, the longer Poser takes to finally set its sights and move forward quickly, the faster the content will be consumed by other venues.

Dynamic Hair, Dynamic Cloth, OGL, Firefly, and so on were good solid steps forward.  But we're talking CA here - far, far, far better has been done in C4D, Maya, LW3D, Houdini, XSI in these respects (even if without the figure flexibility).  When CA professionals think about characters, they don't often think "Wow, Poser will work for this multi-million dollar movie!" - they think about the quality and quantity of features that far surpass Poser for doing a top-notch job (reality hurts - as much as I like Poser).

Poser, where do you want to go - eventually? :)

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Is there in fact a strategy, or is the idea that there must be updates to generate revenue, so updates will be provided?

I don't see a lot of point in trying to compete with Vue or Carrara in terms of rendering and landscaping. If development is needed, it is in two areas:

1. Improving the capabilities of the program for actually setting up and Posing figures. This is what Poser is about. Look at something like PoseMagic - why didn't Curious Labs/e-frontier think of that? Look at PhilC's utilities. Why aren't those fundamental parts of the program (and not something that has to be implemented in sluggish python scripting)? The core functionality of Poser has been neglected, especially in Poser 6.

2. Improving the interface. In fact, radically replacing it. What worked for Poser 3 is more than creaking for Poser 6.

But do they ever?  Cinema 4D, for instance, tends to integrate successful plugins into the core application (or one of its modules).  I have never seen an instance where Poser did this.  They integrated expensive, third-party applications - or more like tacked them on with some 10-penny nails and hot glue. ;)

Out of all of these, the best was the Material room.  That at least brought Poser's materials into the 20th century (no typo).  As 'cool' as Poser's Dynamic Hair and Cloth are, they are cludgy and unforgiving monstrosities to work with.  It is probably in part due to the complexity of the operation as well as trying to do it with purely polygonal 3D objects.  Poser is a hobbyist application carrying these full-blown systems on its shoulders - and it is buckling a little under the pressure.

Still, things like PoseMagic, WardrobeWizard, and countless other Python scripts could be considered for pure integration.  I don't want a LightWave3D 8 fiasco - "gimme that shovel and pile in the plugins".  While plugins/scripts are great at offering an application a way to extend its abilities - there are times when those abilities become so required (!) that they should be integrated.

So, I am agreeing with you completely. ;D  We'll all see the direction when P7 is released.

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Quote - ...integrate successful plugins into the core application...I have never seen an instance where Poser did this.

I don't see that poser has had much opportunity to do this. Most of the "successful" plugins that I have seen came out late in P5's life or during P6. From what I have heard Ef has spent time rewriting core code for p7 so I won’t be too worried about plugins not being integrated just yet. On the other hand Ef has purchased at least one plugin (puppet master by PhilC) so it may be a sign of things to come.

My Homepage - Free stuff and Galleries

Quote - Out of all of these, the best was the Material room.  That at least brought Poser's materials into the 20th century (no typo).  As 'cool' as Poser's Dynamic Hair and Cloth are, they are cludgy and unforgiving monstrosities to work with.  It is probably in part due to the complexity of the operation as well as trying to do it with purely polygonal 3D objects. 

Mmm - I couldn't agree more. Ditto the Face Room, which was basically a bad idea, which ignored how people use Poser.

One thing to consider: the majority of people in the 3D hobby community are going to continue using Poser and are going to continue using Daz products. So anything e-frontier do that tries to lock Daz out is folly, and anything that Daz does to try and lock Poser out is also folly.

A pissing match between e-frontier and Daz is in no-one's interest.

To an extent.  Maybe not as much a pissing match as a little competition to keep them moving forward.  In their efforts to retain and gain users, the users will (or should) get the good end of the competitive arms race.  As long as it is not at the cost of adding feature upon feature and cost upon cost while ignoring whatever problems exist.

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

well I've seen someone say about P6 rending, well I think it renders as good as some other. And if they fix the memory prob. you'll be able to render larger workflows easier. I like spending my time postworking than fighting the 3d game.

David J Harmon
davidjharmon.com

Horndog40 - you have a very good nose! Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

I just hope the new figures are actually new figures and not a rehash of previous releases...

just got my email about Poser 7, I'm counting my money now...

David J Harmon
davidjharmon.com

Preordered - but PayPal option seems to be non-functional (might be Firefox).  No need to count my money - plenty for this. ;D

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Quote - Preordered - but PayPal option seems to be non-functional (might be Firefox).  No need to count my money - plenty for this. ;D

Good I need some lol I will put it to good use...

David J Harmon
davidjharmon.com

I'm so very pleased with P4 & Pro Pack.

But I bought P5 and had to jump through hoops to get the SN# to work. That made me so angry!!!  I opened it once and hated it.  Then I got  P6 at a great upgrade deal. But I have a big problem with rooms. Face room, hair room, etc. I hated Bryce for the same reason.

Bought Vue and everything was there - while the scene was on my screen. No rooms to change back and forth. I LOVED it! 

I'm thinking of going for P7 - but if it's as convoluted as P6 i'll pass. The 'node' thing just turns me off. Plus the default characters are ugly as hell (except for P6 James). 

I'd rather spend my money at Daz  as V2,3 & 4 can go everywhere. And the content is so well made. Besides, I put my characters into Vue 4 & 5 for more interesting scenes. The Poser studio is just too small for my adventures.

Quote - ...if it's same programers who did 5 and six...

but from what i understand they are pretty much the same programmers who did your "brill" Poser 4.

My Homepage - Free stuff and Galleries

Quote - I'm so very pleased with P4 & Pro Pack.
I'm thinking of going for P7 - but if it's as convoluted as P6 i'll pass. The 'node' thing just turns me off.

did you try the simple mode in Poser 6? i hear it is alot like P4.

overall it sound like you would be happy with Poser Figure Artist when it comes out.

My Homepage - Free stuff and Galleries

Quote - Horndog40 - you have a very good nose! Love esther

Saw the email and you esther are a mind reader (and a quote taker :) )

"Few are agreeable in conversation, because each thinks more of what he intends to say than that of what others are saying, and listens no more when he himself has a chance to speak." - Francois de la Rochefoucauld

Intel Core i7 920, 24GB RAM, GeForce GTX 1050 4GB video, 6TB HDD space
Poser 12: Inches (Poser(PC) user since 1 and the floppies/manual to prove it!)

Quote - To an extent.  Maybe not as much a pissing match as a little competition to keep them moving forward.  In their efforts to retain and gain users, the users will (or should) get the good end of the competitive arms race.  As long as it is not at the cost of adding feature upon feature and cost upon cost while ignoring whatever problems exist.

Normally, competition is good for the users. But the trouble here is that most people want to use Daz figures in Poser. So if Daz tries to push people to D|S by making things that don't work in Poser, and e-frontier tries to push people to e-frontier figures by making Poser screw up Daz figures, it's bad for all of us.