I don't know if its me or not but Poser 7 renders look horrible.  They look fussy and they are only 60 KB in size and when rendering the same scene into Poser 6 its like 280 KB and a very good picture.  Is there  a setting I need to  tweak?  I don't get it.  Also, I can't load my Runtime folder into Poser 7 from Poser 6.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  So far I'm not impressed. 
Adrian

Do you mean the JPG files it creates, or the output of the render window?

I have similar rendering issues! :0/

Just getting it do do a simple test render it struggles compared to P6 :0(

This is before you think about Exporting.

I posted fuller details on another recent thread.

Klutz :0(

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What I do is save the finished render in a JPG format with 0 compression and I also save it with 100 compression and both pics look like crap.  The renders are 58 KB in size and that is so small.  In Poser 6 I render the same scene and its like close to 300 KB and looks a million times better.  It's like Poser 4 with bad textures.

Adrian

What if you save it in a different format, like TIFF or BMP?

Here is what i posted in another thread...It may have got buried ;0)

' It seems to be awfully slow at a simple test render. I am really beginner level at this TBH.

I am talking minimalist stuff here, one figure and no props. One that I could do in P6 in about 30seconds seems to bog down and even freeze it.

I have backed off the auto Firefly render to draft quality, but it still seems awfully slow!

Must have some things checked as default that P6 doesn't I suppose?

Anybody else got an issue like this?

( For the record 2 Gig Athlon64 2 Gig memory and 128M GeForce  Graphics. ) '

Klutz :0/

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Quote - What if you save it in a different format, like TIFF or BMP?

 

Saved as JPEG, 0 compression, 62KB; saved as TGA, 1915 KB. Now THAT"S compression! A little too much compression, maybe; load the TGA to Photoshop and save it as a JPEG at max quality (12) and it's 392 KB.

What render settings are you using in firefly?

Tirjasdyn
http://michellejnorton.com

I was using auto default, but reduced it to auto draft. :0/

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Quote -
( For the record 2 Gig Athlon64 2 Gig memory and 128M GeForce  Graphics. ) '

Klutz :0/

Nige, try to find the latest driver for your graphics card --it makes a huge difference.
So far rendering works fine with me --and fast!... :)

Panos

"That's another fine mess you got me in to!" -- Oliver Hardy

Quote - > Quote -

( For the record 2 Gig Athlon64 2 Gig memory and 128M GeForce  Graphics. ) '

Klutz :0/

Nige, try to find the latest driver for your graphics card --it makes a huge difference.
So far rendering works fine with me --and fast!... :)

Panos

 

I'll do that now, Panos....

Good idea..Thanks for the prompt!

Nige. :0)

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Tried that....Graphics driver updated...Seems quicker graphics generally...

Hasn't solved the problem though...

One Sidney plus hair hit render on Firefly auto and it choks then freezes! :0(

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Can we see a sample just to compare - it's not an issue i have.
Show me yours and I'll show you mine - so to speak....

The supreme irony of life is that hardly anyone gets out of it alive.
Robert A. Heinlein

11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-11900K @ 3.50GHz   3.50 GHz
64.0 GB (63.9 GB usable)
Geforce RTX 3060 12 GB
Windows 11 Pro

Sounds like something is wrong with the JPG compression they're using.

What are your settings? Can you post a screen cap ?

The difference well may be the system requirements of Poser 7 as opposed to 6.  Compare system requirements, does P7 ask for more?  It seems each new generation of software requires higher and higher computer resources.  How much ram do you have?  Perhaps it's time to add some more.   Another thing that might help is to turn off all programs operating the in background.

Do you have to adjust the hardware acceleration like in Poser 6?  I have a dual  core and duel Processor and hope there are no issues when I get mine.  Sharen

P7 might ask for more, but it will very likely run very smoothly on LESS - just memory, I consistently had P6 go to 2gb and croak, while P7 has been pretty well behaved, at least outside of the cloth room (another story).  I told Preferences to let the render run in a separate process and that is working well for me, you might try that and see if you get different results.

My Freebies

I don't know if you HAVE to do anything, but I was setting up and saw under General Preferences -> Render that the threads Firefly thinks it can spawn is set to 1 by default, so I changed it to 4 (max).  I hadn't actually tried it with default, I'll do that though and see if it works the way it reads.  Generally 1 thread = 1 core.

My Freebies

OK.
Tastiger: I have no render to show you :0(
Randy:    Not getting as far as Exporting an image.
Teyon:    I am just using 'out of the box' P7 Firefly settings.
Tomsde: I suppose it could be an issue, but th system is fairly well specced 
                  see resume below.

2.00 Gig AMD64:
2 Gig RAM:
128Meg 6800GT Graphics ( updated driver today ;0) )

SAMS3D: Don't know TBH

PJZ99 : Never been an issue with Poser 6 ...Things running in the background and still churning out the basic test render I am referring to in about 30 seconds....P7 chokes and freezes.

Wonder if it could be Sydney or her hair, that is the only other difference ??? :0/

Thanks folks for the input so far!

Klutz :0)

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In faecorum semper, solum profundum variat.

Have you tried not using default settings?

Going to manual and playing with the bucket size?

Tirjasdyn
http://michellejnorton.com

it's my hope these issues will be ironed out by SR2 or SR3. as in P5 and P6, one consequence of this early release (download) is to force early adopters to test the software under conditions the beta testers couldn't duplicate.

Miss Nancy! Ain't that the TRUTH! LOL

Tirjasdyn....... Where's my bucket? :0?

Thanks folks.

Klutz :0)

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It may be the hair slowing you down though to be honest, your system sounds pretty decent (though you may want a beefier display card).  Did you set Poser to use more processes than just one? This may be slowing things down if you didn't. I myself am on a P4 with 2Gigs of Ram and a 512MB ATI card.  I have Photoshop, Poser7, Windows Media Player, Outlook Express, Firefox and IE running. My renders or a single character with hair usually takes a bit less than three or four minutes depending on the hair and textures. That's at the highest setting.  

You should fire off an email to tech support, as there may be something else slowing things down that you're not aware of.

How is it when rendering from the Manual settings tab ? The bucket size and other nifty tidbits can be found there. The Manual Settings tab is right next to the Automatic Settings.

OK 
Found it..
Bucket size it says 64
Shadowcasting and Raytracing are off.
Displacement  0

I'm trying it like this and see what will happen.

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OK 3 minutes on this one and it cam out OKish 

JPG compression 75

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In faecorum semper, solum profundum variat.

That's really odd, your settings are the same as mine.  I mean, up until yesterday anyway. I didn't switch on more processes than 1 until last night.  I would contact Tech Support, it sounds like there's something in your configuration that they may need to know about.

PUT NUDITY WARNINGS IN YOUR POSTS!  Is it that hard?  Some of us browse the forums at work and rely on these things to avoid NSFW threads. :-p

(Marked for nudity to tag the thread properly)

¤~Giolon~¤

¤~ RadiantCG ~¤~ My Renderosity Gallery ~¤

I am pleased to have got it to render at all TBH.

Are the time and render about right for that or not then?

Klutz :0/

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Yes, that was an oversight on my part to remind ya - Nudity warnings are your friend. 

Depending on how complex that hair prop is, 3 minutes could be about right.

Sorry about the nudity thing....

Didn't twig it was the first naughty posting...even without nipples LOL

Mind on about five diverse things at the moment TBH! :0/

Thanks for the input, folks.

Right.....On the face of it then, I just have the issue of the auto settings then, I suppose?

Klutz :0/

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Looks that way. You should send a message to Tech Support so that the problem is logged and I'm going to make mention of it to the product manager just so he's aware. It'll be best if you make a Tech Support request though because you know your system and what else you have on it.

Thanks for your help and patience ;0)

I'll do that, Teyon.

Uh Oh!

Links to support from the program aren't working either....Still links to curious-labs.

Tried substituting e-frontier...Not having much luck with that URL either.

Probably still the big download issue....

Ah well, I'll try another time.

Klutz :0)

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It looks like the site's having some issues at the moment, as I can't access them right now. It's probably a bit of overload with Poser's new launch. I'll speak with Uli tomorrow though, so he'll hear about your problem. He may not have an easy solution without you being able to provide your info so keep trying the TechSupport links.

J-peg settings in Poser have always been tricky, even a slight increase in output quality can create nasty looking, pixellated images.  If you're planning on doing an post work on your images it's best to save as PSD (for photoshop users and Elements) or TIFF.  Yes they take more memory, but they won't degrade on you.

You could also try a P4 engine render, depending on the look your after that might be good enough for some things.

Valid point, Tomsde.

I'll bear that in mind too, when reaching that stage.... :0/

Klutz :0)

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Thanks for every ones help with this problem.  It seems that Poser 7 is going backwards in regards of saving a quality image.  I've always saved my work in  a JPG format in Poser 6 with high quality and it looks great.  With Poser 7, the quality is horrible.  It seems I have to jump through hoops to make a normal JPG file that Poser 6 could do with no problems.  With Poser 7 it doesn't even come close to the quality of Poser 6 out of the box.  Is there some kind of setting that I'm missing?  TIA.

Adrian

I never save to JPG from Poser. I prefer to save to PSD and convert to Jpg in Paintshop where I can control the Compression and file sizes as needed.

This is a habit I adopted with Poser 5.

I don't have a problem with rendering. I have a preset I use and I don't see these issues at all.

Yes most people save in a PSD format but what I'm trying to say is, why does Poser 6 allow you to save a really nice JPG but Poser 7 doesn't?  Poser 6 has always done that for me even though I shouldn't save my renders in a JPG format to begin with, but at least it gives me that option.  Poser 7 doesn't have that capability yet. 

Adrian

I see what you are saying (Looking at a Render I did in P7). Looks like they are using a standard Windows Dialog for saving, rather than the previous dialog.

Curious that.

I think this must be a bug.  The file size should not be the same for a JPG of highest quality vs. lowest quality.

THAT'S exactly what I'm talking about.  I hope it's a bug because that should never be touched or modified.  Just my feelings.

Adrian

I hope they fix this.  For stills, yes, you can save as a TIFF or some such thing.  But what about animation?  I usually render as a series of still images, so if Poser crashes, I can continue where I left off.  I usually use a quality of 70-80, and adjust the filesize in my animation app.  Rendering to TIFF would take a lot longer, then I'd have to convert to JPG, since my animation program doesn't do TIFF. 

I know with mine and I use 2 monitors - it pops up a "quality" selection box after you hit the save as jpg button - you can then select from 0% - 100% - However, mine comes up on monitor 2 so I'm not sure where it will pop up on a single screen.

The supreme irony of life is that hardly anyone gets out of it alive.
Robert A. Heinlein

11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-11900K @ 3.50GHz   3.50 GHz
64.0 GB (63.9 GB usable)
Geforce RTX 3060 12 GB
Windows 11 Pro

Found the same problem, doesn't matter what kind of quality settings I used for jpg's, in P 7 all renders have the same filesize and the same bad quality. :(

---

Ulli

"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!"

Quote - Rendering to TIFF would take a lot longer

 

Using JPG as an intermediate format is a bad, bad idea. The quality loss seams like a waste to me. That aside, renderign to TIF shoudln;t take any longer than JPG. Output format doesnt come into play at the render stage.

Hi all,

I found exactly the same bug in Poser 7 here, ie do a quick test render and try to save as a jpg.

First, they have changed the dialog box so you get to choose the quality in a separate box now, and they don't bother telling you which is the good and bad end (not that I need telling but all the same... :) )

Also, no matter what setting you choose, all jpgs are indeed coming out at low quality. A TIFF looks fine though.

What I did then was to go back to Poser 6 just to make sure I was not just getting something wrong. I opened the last scene I had done in 6, and before I actualy did a render, I clicked on the render tab, and there was my Poser 7 pic!

I did the render, made sure I was right about being able to change quality, and then when I dragged the slider over, my new P7 pic was still there in the render stack!

How, I have no idea, I accepted default folders for everything, I have versions 5, 6 and 7 on this machine, and 5 & 6 never interacted at all.

Anyway, this was late last night, so I gave up trying to figure it out and I am pleased to see this thread to bounce it around.

I'm glad we all found the bug and lets hope they fix this with the first service release.  I'm guessing everything else works OK like PSD, TIFF ETC?  Thanks again.

Adrian 

Ratscloset has flagged this with Support.

http://www.contentparadise.com/forums/contentparadise/index.php?showtopic=2700&st=0&#entry18602

Nat

Oh cool then lets hope that EF will fix this in the first SR.  Thanks for letting me know.

Adrian

Quote - Using JPG as an intermediate format is a bad, bad idea. The quality loss seams like a waste to me. That aside, renderign to TIF shoudln;t take any longer than JPG. Output format doesnt come into play at the render stage.

That has not been my experience.  I've found the quality makes a difference in speed, at least when using the "make movie" options.

JPG is NOT an intermediate format for me when I'm animating.  It's the only format my animation software accepts.  So if Poser can't do it, I have to convert each frame with Photoshop. 

I mostly make small animated graphics for Web sites and such.  It's pointless to render to TIFF format, when I'm only going to convert the frames to JPG anyway, and then convert to something even more lossy.

Might be a strand hair issue - that's hair room hair you've got on that render there, and that really slows things down, even in P6. Try the third or fourth hairs for Syd instead

Just throwing in my 2cents.

1.  Graphics cards have no effect on rendering from what I understand.  They effect display, and that's all.

2. I haven't hunted around too much and I'm at work right now, but from what I've found so far testure filtering is no longer a render option in P7, it is instead controlled on a texture by texture basis in the material room.  Texture filtering really slows down a render and is not always needed depending on what you are doing or your own style.  (PS, does anyone know of a way to just shut off all texture filtering?  I hate the idea of having to go through a million textures on by one!)

3. I no longer use jpg, I only render to tiffs, but there is no technical reason that the render speed would change.  The system has no clue what you are going to save to until after you render!

Just a few thoughts.  Still, good to know about the bugs.  I'm glad I read this, because far too often if I run into a bug I figure its just me.  (Tech support on any application always treats me that way, at least and I'm more then just slightly computer literate. lol)

Hope they will resolve these issues soon.

Quote - Just throwing in my 2cents.

1.  Graphics cards have no effect on rendering from what I understand.  They effect display, and that's all.

Graphic's card drivers can affect things all through out a system.  Updating a driver can fix or destroy a multitude of things.  I kid you not...even printers can appear physically broken with a bad graphics driver.

that's why you hear the "have you updated your graphics driver" alot when dealing with computers.  Poser is one of the few programs any more that does not rely on graphics card alot, except for display but it is leading that way with more hardware acceleration and opengl displays.

Crazy I know but graphics cards can make or break a system in ways that just don't make any kind of logic. 

Tirjasdyn
http://michellejnorton.com

Quote - Might be a strand hair issue - that's hair room hair you've got on that render there, and that really slows things down, even in P6. Try the third or fourth hairs for Syd instead

 

You are probably right that that would probably make the situation worse,but.....

I think it was the Syd 3rd Hair IIRC....
Certainly was one of the default hairs anyway.

Haven't dared open the door to the Hair Room yet! LOL

Klutz :0)

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Teyon...I have notified support as requested.

Many thanks for your time on this.

Klutz :0)

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In faecorum semper, solum profundum variat.

No problem. It's always good to log these things instead of just letting them fly by or making cumbersome work arounds. If it's logged and we can repeat it, we do our best to fix it. :)

The hair model in your render is the third item on the Sydney hair list, SydneyG2Strand_2, which is a hair room hair. One is the skill cap for the hair room, two and three are hair room hairs and four and five are prop based hair - 3 minutes isn't bad for hair room hair, at least for me!

This one has about 16,000 strands in it as initially set up.

Just done a quick timing test to get an idea of the difference the strand based hair should make (quite late in the day and with a big project taking up lots of memory in the background, so ignore the actual figures and look at the difference between them).

Sydney with hair three (prop hair), standard render settings: 63 seconds
Sydney with hair two (strand hair), standard render settings: 12 minutes 20 seconds!

It's not normally that slow, but the ratio is about right.

Keep in mind that the FireFly Renderer in Poser 5 and Poser 6 had the option to turn "texture filtering" on or off. If you turned it on, textures would look sharper, even in the distance.
 
ThrommArcadia is correct: in Poser 7, this is no longer a user-changeable option. The manual says that tetxure filtering is turned on by default, but I'm seeing blurry textures in my scenes, especially when I compare the same image I rendered in Poser 6.
 
Also, the File > Export (to image) feature has been changed: you can no longer set the compression rate for any file types. I suggest saving the image as Photoshop, and then opening the file in either Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro and using those programs' "Save for Web" command.

VanishingPoint... Advanced 3D Modeling Solutions

Right...I must admit I wasn't aware those were styles created within the program.

Thanks for your trouble, JR.

It doesn't sound bad then for working on the default manual settings.

It is just the auto firefly settings which are giving me lock-up grief, bu the sound of it! 

Once again thanks for the input, folks! 

Klutz. :0)

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Quote - ThrommArcadia is correct: in Poser 7, this is no longer a user-changeable option. The manual says that tetxure filtering is turned on by default, but I'm seeing blurry textures in my scenes, especially when I compare the same image I rendered in Poser 6.

It may be on by default, but you can now set it on each texture to either "None", "Quality", or "Fast" using the new Filtering option on the Image_Map node.
A "change Filtering setting for all Images in a material" Wacro is probably going to be wanted.

Quote - Keep in mind that the FireFly Renderer in Poser 5 and Poser 6 had the option to turn "texture filtering" on or off. If you turned it on, textures would look sharper, even in the distance.
 
ThrommArcadia is correct: in Poser 7, this is no longer a user-changeable option. The manual says that tetxure filtering is turned on by default, but I'm seeing blurry textures in my scenes, especially when I compare the same image I rendered in Poser 6.
 

Texture Filtering is under the imagemap node now and can be set for every texture...I plan to play a bit with it at home

Tirjasdyn
http://michellejnorton.com

If not animating it's always best to use a lossless file format to save your images, especially when working on them.  Any computer graphics book will advise you on that.  You can then output the final image to JPEG of GIF if posting on the web.  TIFF and PSD will allow you to save layers, also a big point if you ever want to change anything in the image later.  You can't save layers with JPEG.

I have always saved in jpeg, in every other version of poser, sure hope they fix it in p7 soon.
Using p6 and p7 collecting virtual dust till they do. :mellow:

Quote - I have always saved in jpeg, in every other version of poser, sure hope they fix it in p7 soon.
Using p6 and p7 collecting virtual dust till they do. :mellow:

Why not save in a lossless format and convert to JPEG with another program.
It's usually best to convert to JPEG as the last step before uploading somewhere to avoid problems due to the lossy compression.

How about just render in p6 and save time and space? No render speed diff  between p6 and p7 if not using raytrace.  Cannot see why I would  want play with broken toy rather then the one that works.

@Klutz: 3 minutes with one core is okay. Turn your render settings until the right-end, with P7 now it´s for me possible with 2 GB Ram (in P6 I´ve got an error with 70-80%).

By the way:
@pjz99 thanks for your hind with dual-core. It´s great! (maybe sometimes it´s for sure good to read the manual).

Merry Christmas
Frank

The best true image export I have been able to export/save is by coping image from the
edit drop down menu and pasting in new file in photoshop all save as options were showing
quality loss. Must be something in the export script.

I've rendered several images in Poser 7 and have had no quality loss at all saving is PSD.  I'll have to try a test render in jpeg and see it I notice a decline in image quality saving at the highest quality setting.  It could be some conflict on your computer that's causing the degredation, every computer is different and therefore we can't completely rule this out.  I'd also try email e-frontier and ask if they have any more data.

Try pasting in compared to saving as is a bit of a difference here.
I would not expect a reply from e-frontier till later this week.
I just had a lil time to play today with export tests.
Now back to texture work.

e-frontier already confirmed that JPG compression setting isn't doing anything. I guess no one of the testers used that export option (why would anyone use it? ;-))

Well, I did. I used it to see if it exported.  Never thought to use it for dpi testing becuase I usually render out at 72 dpi regardless but with higher dimensions anyway.  I'll take some of the blame on that one, though I wasn't the only person testing the program.

 The engineers will most likely have it fixed by the first service release. For those needing higher resolutions, I suggested (until the fix is ready) to do what I usually do out of habit: multiply the desired height or width in inches by the desired dpi to figure out what my dimensions would be.

Let's say I want an image that's 11 inches tall and 14 inches wide at 300 dpi. So the equivalent  would be 11x300 =3300 and 14x300=4200 which means I'd render out at 3300x4200x72 dpi to get the same resolution. 

Suggest they do away with any compression on export. I only use dpi option when zooming in and out when doing area renders when texture testing so i don't have to change camera.
Never tried saving in higher dpi before as I agree no need unless your watching the paint dry.