i don't know if it's just me but from what i've seen so far, V4 really fell out of the ugly tree and hit quite a few branches. When she first came out, i was really excited and some of the packages for her are nice enough, but the more i see of her in the galleries and compared to V3, she's a real dog. Her body reminds me of Miki (ie. a stumpy boyish figure that's overdosed on steriods) but seeing as i always do portraits, i don't really care that much, it's her face that isn't pretty. i know in time more morph packs and merchants producing characters for her will help and eventually i will have no choice cause everyone will be using her, but at the moment i'm really not convinced enough to bother purchasing her and i think i might just stick with V3 and A3. So does anyone else feel the same or am i alone here?

Always the same old story... each new model in PoserVerse has its wave of 'I love' and its opposite one of 'I hate'... 

My dog is laying under my table. I look her (her name is Kyra), I look v4. Nah, a dog naaah...

:lol:

CASETTE
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"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"

LMAO @ cassette. ..and then God created the Spaniards

No comprendo...

:lol:

CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"

i'm asking for opinions about V4 before forking out $40 for her, not how ugly your dog is.

well she is on sale 20bucks..
if you buy the complete is on sale too 34 bucks

It pretty convinced me...   but the main reason i bought her was business... 
She haves a very cool new features and a new way of mapping i have never seen before really.  She is more heavy in polygons than V3.  My computer is a dual processor 3.4 ghz 2GB RAM and a gooood 256 video card and still she is slow in my processor compared to V3.  Maybe I have to get more RAM memory towork with her with more flow.  And I am using Poser 6 that is more faster than Poser 5.
She is a little bit a less pain in the @$$ because the morphs dont need to be injected IN the v4 complete and some features in movement are great... good for animation but still i need a more resoursable computer to work with her!  I need more speed.  Right now I don't feel i wated my money.

-Yanelis3D-

Exceptionally pleased with V4.  Got a few nice examples in my gallery.  A very functional, high quality Poser figure.  Beware that most of the character packs' textures out there are not nearly as good as the DAZ high rez texture.  Looks are very configurable, body is very configurable.  Clothes will come , textures will come, or you can just make them if you're into that.

My Freebies

I've just started playing with the V4 morphs (trying to make some of my own characters) and have been able to get some fantastic results for the body, but the face...not so great.  I'm finding it extremely difficult to morph something that I think is attractive.  I've seen a few commercial characters that look kinda nice, but nothing yet that really jumps out and grabs me.  :(

Once P7 arrives I'm hoping to get some better results with the Morphing Tool.  crosses fingers  And hopefully there will be some additional morph packs released soon.   I'm really not too thrilled (face-wise) with the Morphs++ pack.

"You don't know what we can see
Why don't you tell your dreams to me
Fantasy will set you free." - Steppenwolf

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I prefer more anime-ish looks myself.
But I don't think she's ugly.

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

No body better say that face looks ugly. that is the second comming of my wifes face and hair color and style. Did she put you up to this, if not,  I will have to show this to her. Her eyes on the ends tilt up just a little, compaired to hers though.

Yeah, so far I'm not very impressed with V4. I'm sure she'll get better once other's have worked on some new morphs/skins for her.

http://schuetzenpowder.com/sigs.jpg

*I agree that the Base V4 is ugly.  I wasn't gonna get her either.  But the pack with the morphs is prety good.  She's very versatile.  I like the fact that you can morph her up (face and body) and she'll look completely different.

Luna Faye*

Quote - No body better say that face looks ugly. that is the second comming of my wifes face and hair color and style. Did she put you up to this, if not,  I will have to show this to her. Her eyes on the ends tilt up just a little, compaired to hers though.

 

lol Um... I don't know your wife.  :D

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

I'm one of those people who has never really liked Vicki.  I just don't care for her looks.  I prefer SP3 or Laura.  I want to play with Sydney but do not have P7 yet.

I think V3 was built like a line backer and her default face was one only a mother could love.  V4, out of the box, see above, is very pretty, bends well and is shaped nicely.  She does have little quirks here and there but I have NEVER liked a DAZ mesh out of the box before, I'm impressed. 

SP3 is just not that attractive and Aiko is way to Anime out of the box for my tastes and always needed much adjusting.  It's fine, you can always save your new creation as a new .cr2 or a morph (as least in DAZ Studio) you can.  V4?  I can deal with her shape just fine.  Love her eyes, the new controls, organized morphs, bend-ability, morphs and the whole lot.  She's a winner, not an ugly dog. 

By the way, dogs are not ugly, it's only your opinion and it seems to come from a place of ignorance.  Do you own a copy?  Have you worked with her if you do enough to determine if she really is not attractive to you??  What do you feel is attractive then??  V3 out of the box?  Oh please, say it isn't so!! 

---Wolff On The Prowl---

My Store is HERE

My Freebies are HERE  

i can't quite figure exactly what it is about her face that i don't like, i think it's mainly her eyes that are strange. Don't get me wrong, some of the characters for her are pretty (Helena, Nadia, JoJo and Eylina) but nothing compared to V3 and A3 and unless some drastic morph packs are released, i don't think any merchant can work miracles and make her stunning. i would wait and see what else comes out for her and if something really bites me and says 'buy me now!' but she won't be on sale for that long so i got to make a decision soon. At the moment i'm leaning more towards an iPod for a pressie for myself than V4 and all her addons!

V4 is an exceptionally well-rigged character with a few ingenious innovations I've not seen before.
As for her looks, well, it's designed very well for making new morphs, and the UV's allow for better painting of new textures. Speaking of the UV's,  I do alot of 3D painting with Deep Paint 3D, and this is the first figure I've not had to use Projection Painting with to avoid seam problems. Ths is the best UV mapping DAZ has ever come up with.
The polygon count is actually  lower than V4, at 66,024, compared to V3's count of 75,000 or so, but it's optimized - fewer polygons where there isn't a huge need for them, and more where there is.
I think it's safe to say there has been more thought put into this character than any others from DAZ prior, because it's designed largely with one purpose: to enable developers to create things more easily for use with it.
As someone else here pointed out recently, in a year, everything will be V4 this and V4 that.
"Ugly"? I wouldn't say that at all, but if you have a look at the face in a good modeling program, and see how well those polys are arranged, you'd see that the possibility for de-uglifying her are numerous. Might be a better choice to try that, as opposed to complaining and waiting for someone to make something you like better.....

try scaling down the eyes, that helped for me.. less cartoonish.

If i owned a copy of V4, i wouldn't be asking for opinions about her. i'm going on the images i have seen so far of her and the more i see, the less i like her. V3 out the box is bad but at least she can be made to look very attractive. i can't afford to blow $35 on a character that is ugly however much you mess about with dials and morphs and if you would like to buy me a good modelling program, i will rearrange her polys but until then, i have to rely on merchants that know what they're doing to create products for me. i'm not made of money.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1345181

I was just browsing the galleries and finally something jumped out at me!  This is by far the prettiest face I've seen so far.  Just wish I could figure out how they do it...I haven't been able to get anything even remotely this pretty with the morphs.  *sigh*  :(

"You don't know what we can see
Why don't you tell your dreams to me
Fantasy will set you free." - Steppenwolf

30-Day Money-Back Guarantee.
Get her & Try her for yourself.  ^^

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

I was rather disappointed after my first hands on trials, but since it was a birthday gift and didn't cost me a cent, I can afford to be generous with my criticsms. We won't really know the model's true capabilities until the talented and generous members here at Renderosity begin releasing morphs, hair, textures and clothing. That's what will ultimately account for V4's success or failure.

Here's V4, combining the Vittorio face morphs using the neg and pos spins and added in another called Satanic.   I think she can look QUITE ugly!! :lol:

---Wolff On The Prowl---

My Store is HERE

My Freebies are HERE  

xeniaghost, you may have been "asking for opinions", but the title of this thread, "...fell out of the ugly tree", seems to be you stating an opinion, not asking for one (not to mention the other things you said in your first post).

You also said, " i don't know if it's just me but from what i've seen so far, V4 really fell out of the ugly tree and hit quite a few branches. When she first came out, i was really excited and some of the packages for her are nice enough, but the more i see of her in the galleries and compared to V3, she's a real dog."

Consider that you are seeing the attempts of people who have also just begun using it. I'm sure it'll get better.

s'ok. So you can always wait until someone comes out with a morph that makes her more appealing. Or there's a whole stable of other characters out there to use. It's your money; don't let anyone tell you how to spend it..;)

Buy, or buy not. There is also try..;)

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

Okay, I'll throw in my 2 cents.

First, I am a face person too. So I think I can give you a good point of view.

The V4 base is free. Download her. Simple.
What about the morphs? I think getting the morphs are a good idea, the body morphs are few, but which ones are there are well made, better than V3. The facial expressions are also an advance and the eye movement dials are SWEET!  But you will not be impressed by the V4 face shaping morphs. Not that they worse than any face morph sets you can get somewhere else, No, what I mean is the V4 face shaping morphs are a step down from V3.

V3 had beautiful face morphs, the type that look sculpted, not like any of the magnet-based smooth sort of morphs you will see in other places outside DAZ. The V3 was face morphs were like 3D scans of a real person or sculptures. In some places, there were sharp edges. But the new face of V4 is very "smooth," without any detailed edges. Do you have Apollo?  In some ways, her face shaping like his, it can morph in cool ways, but lacks detail. Does that make sense?

V4's tongue is an improvement, and the teeth take a new approach too. I haven't decided if I like them better than V3 teeth, but I like what they can do. (NOTE: She is not Mimic ready.)

V4 has a new way to do eyelashes. It's more like Miki in a way, but there are two layers for lash materials and the top ones are separated.

V4's eyes have innovations. It's a new shape with new materials, and even a tear layer on the eyelid. That all sounds cool, right? It would be if the iris can be fixed.  The iris has a hard edge stairstep-like edge. This is a problem, imho, and it makes the eye look more like a stuff animal teddy bear eye than a realistic human eye.  I've already made a few attempts to morph the iris to get rid of the stairstep. So far I haven't come up with a better shape.  The iris is actually not attached to the eyeball at all. It's like a prop inside the eye. Make sense?

Anyhoo, long story short. Get the V4 base. Play around with her. If you have an extra $10 to $15 to spare, at least get the morphs.  You can always decide to buy more V4 add-ons later.

I picked up the Domino for V4outfit because it looks very cool and I want to Wardrobe Wizard the leg covers, coat, belt and shorts for the Bishie in my Runtime. lol  ;)

p.s. I am attempting to create a new face for V4. It will be made in an external app so it won't use any of the morphs from a morph kit. Whether I come up with a winner or not, I'm sure someone will come up with a good face with lots of character for V4.

bB

xeniaghost,

I have seen some of the renders you are talking about concerning V4 and if I were to base my opinion on just those, I would agree with your opinion.  But, beings I have purchased V4 with the +++ morph pack, I can tell you without hesitation that V4 is an excellent model to work with.  I have posted a quick render in the galleries I did with V4 and I think it will convince you differently.

@Neyjour Yep, that face is very pretty, mainly cause it doesn't look much like her! Lol i'm not a member of the Daz PC so i've got to pay $20 or so for theV4 base meaning i can't play before i buy, which is a shame. i thought about the 30-day money back guarantee but i've already done that a few times and i'm scared Daz will ban me if i do it again! i know it's early days with V4 and hopefully she'll get better with time but if the basic face and extra morphs aren't great, then however talented the artists and merchants are, they can't make her beautiful. i'm sure Daz will release more morph packs to improve her but that's even more money to pay out and i've already got V3 with enough morphs to make her into whatever i want. As far as realism goes, i can't see her being superior to V3 cause textures are as detailed as they can get. That unattached iris sounds weird and she seems to have strange eyelids and puffy eyes, but i guess merchants will sort that out eventually. Anyway, i think i've made my mind up, it's the iPod until something for V4 really bites me!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1343508

V4 is cute for me. And she has a nice smile and a very good default body. I remember I used default V3 for one or two renders on a gallery of over 200 pics. The rest, morphed and with different skins. Of course, soon I'll have lots of packs for V4

And my dog is a pointer and she's cute also ;)

CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"

I think she's pretty.  This weekend, when I'm more used to her, I'm gonna drag her into zbrush and see what I can do with some of my own morphs.  Still, though, she is just pretty.  Vicky from the box didn't appeal to me, and, had so many morphs that it was like piloting a jet plane.  This one seems simpler, more down to earth.

i know everyone has their own idea of beauty and life would be boring if everyone looked the same and perfect, but it's definitely something with V4's eyes that is wrong and she seems to have a round face. Personally i just think so far, V3 and A3 are a lot more attractive in comparison. So now i've opened a can of worms with V4, what's Sydney like?

... An ugly cat?

:lol:

CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"

Hey, cats are far more beautiful than dogs so don't get me started on that!

iPod verses V4?  
Oh yeah, no contest. Get the iPod.  ;)

bB

Quote -
That all sounds cool, right? It would be if the iris can be fixed.  The iris has a hard edge stairstep-like edge. This is a problem, imho, and it makes the eye look more like a stuff animal teddy bear eye than a realistic human eye.  I've already made a few attempts to morph the iris to get rid of the stairstep. So far I haven't come up with a better shape.  The iris is actually not attached to the eyeball at all. It's like a prop inside the eye. Make sense?

Yeah, I'd have to partially recant my UV statement from earlier, because it seems that for all the good they did with the UV's, they made up for it with the eyes.
"sclera" seems to be a continuation of "eye surface", and it doesn't line up particularly well. Why they did it that way, I have no idea, but it must have made sense to someone. Although Sclera is inside of Eye Surface.
And Sclera, which seems like it should connect to Iris, actually obscures the outer edge of Iris, which is why you get that hard edge.
I'd imagine this could be solved with morphing, but that might not create such a good result - I suspect the idea was to necessitate the purchase of "reveal the Iris edges" transmaps for the sclera.....
Of course, as long as the geometry remains the same, you can alter the UV's, reload it in Poser as OBJ, and use the original skeleton to fix that, and still retain the MT's. I think.

I love her. Here is a character that I'm working on for her to put in my store soon. Her versatility is amazing.

Kathie Berry
Admin/PlanIT3D

Some painters transform the sun into a yellow spot. 
Others transform a yellow spot into the sun.
 --Pablo Picasso-
-

here's one from rebelmommy, i know i will be getting her when she's available for purchase ;)

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1345610

I agree that the base V4 when first loaded into a scene does look like it hit quite a few branches while falling out of the ugly tree.  But the morphing capability on this character is quite awesome.  The biggest problem is see (beside the high armpits) is trying to get the eyes dialed in right.  They are way too big in the standard figure which generally tends to portray a deer in the headlights look.  There are some morphs to correct this.  The best morph of V4 I've seen so far comes from a guy named Jayme over at IllusionsDesigns.net.  He created a morph which looks much more natural than some of the bulimic looking things floating around out there.  Here's a render of this character in Vue:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1344701

Sydney has a nice face (too unique) and pretty hands, but otherwise is nowhere near as high quality as V4 in terms of bending and configurability.

I don't get it - do you take a base figure, install them, and just start snapping pictures without changing any features at all?  What difference does it make what the base character looks like to you?  You could start with the Freak and end up with Bo Derek, if the figure has the support then what does it matter what they look like out of the box?

My Freebies

Quote - i can't quite figure exactly what it is about her face that i don't like, i think it's mainly her eyes that are strange.

The V4 eyes take some getting used to, they are too reflective and the white is too white.  Talk about strange eyes, I refer to your icon!

I just starting playing with her and don't have any morph sets yet. I do though have my free P7 and played a bit with her cheeks with the morphing tool. I have no idea how to create and save the cheek morph yet but that is a question rather than an answer. This is V4 base with a few dial spins and a push at the cheeks. I don't think she looks that bad.

Keep in mind that a lot of the most STUNNING V3 characters are not created with Daz morphs but were done by external morph editing and given custom injections.  I, myself, find V4 not only lovely but easy to work with.  Her body is much more realistic and she is no longer built like a linebacker.  I never, ever used V3's default body shape but I would be willing to use V4's default body shape.  V3 will remain in my arsenal for a long time to come but I will find a lot of use for V4.  Especially if I need to pose anything with their arms over their head.

Quote - i can't quite figure exactly what it is about her face that i don't like, i think it's mainly her eyes that are strange. Don't get me wrong, some of the characters for her are pretty (Helena, Nadia, JoJo and Eylina) but nothing compared to V3 and A3 and unless some drastic morph packs are released, i don't think any merchant can work miracles and make her stunning. i would wait and see what else comes out for her and if something really bites me and says 'buy me now!' but she won't be on sale for that long so i got to make a decision soon. At the moment i'm leaning more towards an iPod for a pressie for myself than V4 and all her addons!

P.S.  As someone else pointed out, Daz also has a 30 day money back guarantee.  If you got her and hated her, you can get your money back.

Quote - I do though have my free P7 and played a bit with her cheeks with the morphing tool. I have no idea how to create and save the cheek morph yet but that is a question rather than an answer.

 

There's more than one way to do it, but I've been simply saving the character in Characters folder under a category, and she loads into new scenes with the morphs I added, so that's good enough for my purposes.  (<-- not interested in becoming a merchant)

edit: saving with the + button bottom right, as in add to library, not File Menu -> Save

My Freebies

Quote - "sclera" seems to be a continuation of "eye surface", and it doesn't line up particularly well. Why they did it that way, I have no idea, but it must have made sense to someone. Although Sclera is inside of Eye Surface.

 

I've also noticed that Iris texture overlaps Pupil a little bit, at least on some of the textures I've tried.

My Freebies

I had no problem morphing her. You can make her as old or young as you like. I even made a male version of her. I only have the free base version, and the texture set that came with it until I paint some. This is just a simple screen capture.

I am experimenting with V4, and it's lots of fun... but I do agree with BastBlack that there is a less-defined smoothness to her face.  It's noticable in her body and hands too, particularly the fingers.  I think V3 and V4 both have their advantages and disadvantages. 

That's a beautiful character Damsel!  I'll be keeping my eye out for her in the MP!  She'll be going on my 'must-buy' list for sure. 

Okay, I went back to the face I've been working on, determined to morph something that looks halfway decent.  Here's what I finally came up with.  Not a stunner, but not too bad either I don't think.  :)  If anyone wants her, just clicky the link.

Note:  You'll need the Morphs++ pack to use her.

"Isola for V4"

Edit:  Hmmm....how do you make clickable links???

"You don't know what we can see
Why don't you tell your dreams to me
Fantasy will set you free." - Steppenwolf

Quote - The V4 base is free.

No, it's not.  It was free for Platinum Club members.  It isn't any more.

At first blush, I thought she was prettier than V3, in a fashion model kind of way.  Skinnier, with a younger, more childlike face.

But she often comes out looking oddly hard and old in renders.  I'm not sure why.  As example, those promos for Nadia at DAZ.  I didn't think it was possible for a Thorne and Sarsa character to look like that.

I'm sure she'll be pretty enough when the merchants get up to speed.

Though someone said that, because of the way she's mapped, it will be very hard to do photorealistic textures for her.  That wouldn't really upset me, because realism isn't my thing, but if true, it might be an issue for some.

I was holding out on V4..... but I don't have to, LOL a friend got it for me for a christmas present LOL.  Yay me!

Interested in playing, i loaded her, and......... whoa..... er, not in a good way.   Granted i put initial reactions aside, no character "out of the box" looks terrific, and all have some flaw to some degree.

Example:  Jessi has an alien egg forehead and pointy witch chin, V3 had saucer shaped breasts and rubber band looking shoulders........ you get the idea.    I Did notice with V4 the eyes are Gi-Normous!  But actually thats not the first thing i noticed as ....... holy corn pone batman!

That lower rib set jutting out is about the least attractive thing I've ever seen.  Playing with morphs I have yet to get rid of it.   LOL I'm wondering what the weight comparison must be for her lower chest and stomach to concave THAT MUCH........ 80lbs?

I'm sure I'll figure my way around this, too soon to tell if I actually like her or not.

Stomach_Thickness I think is what you're looking for if you don't care for the rib (I personally do but eh)

My Freebies

> Quote - > Quote - "sclera" seems to be a continuation of "eye surface", and it doesn't line up particularly well. Why they did it that way, I have no idea, but it must have made sense to someone. Although Sclera is inside of Eye Surface. > >   > > I've also noticed that Iris texture overlaps Pupil a little bit, at least on some of the textures I've tried.

(The attached screengrab shows that the eyes have not only 5 separate surfaces, i.e., Sclera, Iris, Eye Surface, Cornea and Pupil, but separate UV's for each, as well.)
I have to wonder why all the eye surfaces except the "sclera" (which is attached to the iris - sorta) are mapped planar, with the vertex points spread out evenly.
Every part of the eye is more or less spheric, yet the Sclera was not mapped out as such.
(The cornea is a cover, meant to be transparent, with a certain amount of specularity and refraction for the sake of realism in closeups, and, unless you need trans or spec maps, having it UV'd is pointless.
But the real important part of it all is the Iris and how well it merges with the Sclera, when it comes to painting or applying photos...
How does one go about painting over this, or applying a photo?
maybe you don't, unless you're DAZ, and have a plan for that.....

V4 base isn't all that attractive, in my opinion. I'll agree. But neither was V3 (and I never messed with v1 or v2 enough to even remember what their base faces even look like so I can't comment on that).

I just bought the pro bundle tonight, after downloading the free v4 base. I figured I might as well, since it's on sale, plus with my vouchers, etc, I got the whole set for 43 bucks. Can't beat that.

I only played around with her for maybe a total of an hour and I already like her WAY more than v3. I really didn't expect to even have much interest in v4. I still don't like her shoulders, but just playing with the facial morphs for v4, I came up with this character. While I'm sure I could tweak some things here and there if I spent more time, I don't think there's anything ugly about her at all. She's rather cute, in fact.

You should take advantage of the free v4 base while you have the chance. Even if you don't have an interest in her right now, later on you might and then you'll have to actually buy her at full price before you can use anything you might find that you want.

But just experimenting with her a little bit here has me interested. I'll most likely be making some of my own stuff for her pretty soon.

~E.D.

I have to agree that the Base V4 is not the prettiestlady in the office, but she isn't terrible.  My first gallery post is a true example of ugly, though.  I learnt very quickly that using the available morphs (I've got eh Pro Bundle) it takes some time to dial a pretty face.  My second go was much better.

(If anyone is thinking of stopping by my gallery to take a look, be forwarned they are nudes.)

My third render with V4 is her base face and it is done with Sydney at her side for comparison.

Anyway, my point is that though, V4 is not pretty to begin with and though she requires completely relearning how to dial-a-face, she has a ton of obvious flexibility.  I believe she is a vast improvement over V3, but it will be months before we really get to see that reflected in galleries and products.

Yes, there are annoying and weird things about her, but they can be worked around or eventually some clever merchant will invent a product to help us along.

I'm happy with my V4 purchase, she is the future and I have no doubts there.

Its her eyes that put me off in most pix I have seen. Although that might be more the texture than the shape they seem dead to me and what mostly makes me grimmace is this bizzare trend to have freakishly shiny eyes, like someone took out her eyeballs gave them several coats of hot wax them buffed them for a few hours coated them in olive oil and popped them back in  (that would also explain the vast amount of red veins I see also...LOL)

I have been out of the loop for a while, but many of the pix I have seen of V4 look kinda clunky to me and almost posette 'ish. 

She doesn't buzz my buttons, but its very very early days. We've had V3 for a long time and I suppose when you have invested alot of time and effort not to mention pennies - its hard to let go or even make room for something new, V3 has become very comfy and I know where I am with  the figure, I may yet buy V4 but i'll probably wait until there is more bits n bobs for her and a way of converting V3 body textures - I love to make V3 textures but one look at V4's texture guide and YIKES!!! looks like a seam matching nightmare LOL.

Well, i've rambled on - time for a nice cuppa and crumpets. :biggrin:

My Gallery

Yeah about the first thing I did with her was figure out how to tone that down.  It also took quite a bit of effort to get the trick of really changing her eyes without just making them look bad.

While certainly not the high point of art, my last few gallery pics of Victoria 4 do not resemble Posette in the slightest (at least to me).  The builtin morphs + the P7 morphing tool are a pretty strong combination, and the mesh she is built on is just very tough and resistant to creasing.

I still don't get why people are making a big deal out of how pretty or ugly or whatever the default face is, it's not like most people would want to use that very often, right?  Personally I'd just as soon she had a face like a cueball when you started.

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xeniaghost - I think it depends on what you've been up to?  I believe the reason for you dislike with V4, is that we're spoiled by V3.  V3 has been around for quite sometime, support for her is huge, she has an enormous following!  Unfortunately not enough people have had near enough time to impact a whole community with V4, as has happened with V3; and I feel that pot wo'nt be sweat with our creative juices, for at least another year from now, maybe more...

On the other hand if you're just starting out with Poser,(and hav'nt spent the past year, or more,  working on V3...) then you do'nt have any loose ends to tie up.  In that case I would fully recommend purchasing V4!  It would make a wonderful learning experience; I'm sure, and I'll highly doubt you'll ever be disappointed! 

i'm not necessarily talking about the base default face being ugly or not, i mean with the morphs added. Look at SP3, she's never been very popular cause it's generally agreed she's not pretty. i do own her and have a few packages that make her attractive but they are a rarity. Whatever you do with SP3, you are fighting a losing battle cause she's fallen from that aforementioned ugly tree. Now this character by maelwenn (i think) is stunning and i would happily run over to Daz with my credit card and damage it severely with V4 if she was released but so far nothing else has really inspired me to do so yet. i know some characters are pretty but i already have plenty of pretty characters for V3 that don't require another thrashing on my bank balance. i think i agree with Simderella on the waxy eyeballs and puffy eyelids, also on the tea and crumpets bit too!

...then do not buy v4??

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i know things will definitely improve for V4 in the next year or two and she will get better but time is an issue with everything being on sale at the moment so if i don't get her now, she will full price soon. i have been using V3 for several years so i got a lot of stuff for her and it will be a big upheaval although i know i won't disregard V3 immediately if i do purchase V4. Also does this mean that A4, SP4, M4 and D4 will be released soon?

I do hope for M4 as soon as he's read,...  I've gotten fond of using Ambient Occlusion to kill nostril glow but for some reason when you inject Vittorio's morph it takes out one of the Nostril/Nostrils material zones and leaves a hole where light will show through (need to mail the creator about that I guess).  Plus the morphs are laid out kind of old-school in an un-organized fashion, and I ended up doing a lot of scrolling around to find things, which was one of the things I liked a lot about V4 - the organization of morphs into trees.

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Don't worry, xeniaghost, V4 has a lot more promise then SP3 ever did (yeah, I'm not a big fan of her's either).  I think we will be seeing some great stuff for V4, too many talented merchants and too much riding on this fig.

Also, I do believe they are in the works on your above mentioned characters.  I suspect M4 will be next.  I'm not looking forward to a new Aiko, I really like A3 a lot, but again, a new mesh never means you have to retire your old ones.

My advice would be to get V4 while the sale is on, but then again, there might be an even better sale in March, so who knows?  As I said, I'm happy with my purchase, and I see a bright future for the character.

Quote - If i owned a copy of V4, i wouldn't be asking for opinions about her. i'm going on the images i i'm not made of money.

Make your life easy
DONT BUY THE NEW  "V4" MODEL!!

use V3 SP3 A3  etc.
and be happy

seeking to be "convinced" by  "the community"
is as pointless as  walking into an ice cream parlor and demanding
to know why you should "invest " in Chocolate as opposed
to  vanilla, pistachio etc.

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Ha!  Wolf, you are so right.

Quote - i know everyone has their own idea of beauty and life would be boring if everyone looked the same and perfect, but it's definitely something with V4's eyes that is wrong and she seems to have a round face. Personally i just think so far, V3 and A3 are a lot more attractive in comparison. So now i've opened a can of worms with V4, what's Sydney like?

Here is something Sydney can be like (NUDITY WARNING) Yasmina There are some images up at Rdna in the forum posted by Colm who worked on Sydney that are quite true to what I found her to be like. I was trying out a different body type than what I usually do and was very pleased with the results. I did use the Rdna morphs too as I have liked things Colm has done in the past so bought them straight away . The Sydney face has a distinct look too, quite different than V4. I find it hard personally to get very far away from any figures 'look' without using ZBrush to morph the mesh or the Liguify filter in Photoshop. I tried a similar image to the one I posted with V4 : - I like V4s new bodygroup movements via 'morphforms' a lot though Sydney is easier to pose too compared to earlier figures - I like V4 feet better than Sydney's - I like Sydneys default texture better than those that came with V4Pro. -For the moment I'll use Sydney more..... but later on ? I think the more the merrier anyway. I still like V2 and M2. And Apollo. They are what I have used the most until now. It would be tough to make an either/or decision between V4 and Sydney. But at least the latter comes with Poser if money is the issue. I'm personally happier to have spent $25 on extra morphs for Sydney so far than am with what I spent on V4Pro.

" Try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations."
-Monty Python

A friend of mine listened to be describe this debate and laughed.  "That's like a sculptor saying, 'Damn that's one ugly piece of clay!  I refuse to make a pot out of that!!'"  Had to agree.

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Quote - "My advice would be to get V4 while the sale is on, but then again, there might be an even better sale in March, so who knows? As I said, I'm happy with my purchase, and I see a bright future for the character." i think i will have to buy V4 eventually as before long V3 will be forgotton about and merchants will no longer use her so i don't really have a choice in the matter. i just wish i could find her attractive. @pjz99 If you think this debate is so pointless, don't comment!

You know Xeniaghost the EXACT same things you are talking about with V4 are the SAME problems with all the other figures.  Look at Aiko.  She's BUTT UGLY out fo the box yet you seem to 'love' her.  The debate IS pointless because, no matter what anyone says here, you've already made up your mind.  You asked for opinions and then dismissed any opinion that did not agree with the one YOU ALREADY MADE out of hand.  Makes you wonder what your true point in starting this thread was because you don't really sound like you wanted opinions - only for people to agree with you.

i do have an opinion about V4 and from what i've seen, she is quite ugly compared to other characters, so i have made up my mind. Out the box, so are most of the characters but at least they can look really good with some work on (except for SP3!) i wanted other peoples' opinions about V4 because i really wanted to be proved wrong and someone to show me a character that was stunning, but so far no one has. Some are nice enough but i'm still disappointed. i'm trying to decide whether to blow money on her and i know with time she will improve, so i'm resigned to the fact i will have to purchase her eventually but i'm still not convinced she's got an attractive face and ever will have so i will stick with V3 as long as i can.

Quote - @pjz99 If you think this debate is so pointless, don't comment!

 

you know, that's really good advice, appreciate that.

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The difference I find, is when I purchased V3, I loved her IMMEDIATELY.   There were so many injections, really with some patience you could totally create thousands of different body styles..... especially the ethnic injections.   Norse?  yay!!!  French?  More yay!!  Native american!! woot!

Granted packages may or may not come out in the future, but V3 was "good to go" from day one.  Her "default" was ....... BEATEN by the ugly tree.  Her base textures....... Oie!!!   But still, it could be worked around.

I'm just finding i'm not having that instant attraction or desire to use V4.  Though I have loaded her, in less than a day, I'm almost totally bored.

Done with her morph package and playing with it, I went to, dare I say it, the face room with Jessi.  You know, I've had poser 6 I don't know how long and its the first time i put her in there....

I was litterally stupified to realize.....  Holy moley!  I could create any kind of face i really wanted.  The only exception the nose, though, even that now I'm toying with and realise..... I'd been missing out on a complete wealth of ability with Jessi.

If I ever get back down to my big comp and not the laptop, I'll render something out, for an example.  I think I'm back in love with Jessi again........ and who knows, possibly James too!

V4 will be the new standard.  Sure, I'll use other figures on occasion.  But V4 will quickly become the "IT" girl for the majority of the community.

9 out of 10 of the "pros" seem to like her.  And that fact alone says something.

As for totally subjective judgements over her out-of-the-box looks -- shrug -- I never used the default V3 either.  And I won't be using the default V4.  So, quite frankly, her out-of-the-box looks are utterly without meaning.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

*"Of what use is a newborn baby?"- Benjamin Franklin, on the Montgolfier Brothers (sp?) balloon.
    * I'm sure V3 wasn't that versatile less than a week after release..;)
"Beauty is skin deep, but ugly goes straight to the bone" -Southern Saying..;)

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

My God, have some folks forgotten how ugly all the Vicky's are without textures and morphs??

I got the full pack, her and her morphs. After trying her in P7, couldn't get it to render, I put her in DS. (The render problem is some error on my part since I also tried with James and it wouldn't render.) Her body came out nice, her face quite pretty once she had hair and the render was fine. Next I took her into Poser Pro and worked there. She loaded quicker than V3, rendered quicker than V3 and I was able to make my own pose (full body) without any difficulty. For what it's woth, I think she is worth the money if you're planning on making items or textures to sell or even if you just want to make images as a hobby.

Let me introduce you to my multiple personalities. :)
     BluEcho...Faery_Light...Faery_Souls.

i hope you like the ipod. as for v4 i agree on her appearing ugly but if she were a dog not much hope for her if she entered crufts.still merchants will help and as new year is around corner someone may help towards the purchase of v4 or maybe not.

Quote - She haves a very cool new features and a new way of mapping i have never seen before really.

It will be VERY familiar to anyone who has a copy of Apollo Max. In face Sydney and V4 both look like they borrow heavily from techniques Anton was using in Apollo years ago.

One of the reasons I currently prefer Sydney is because the faceroom frees me from having to wait for people to produce endless sets of slightly different mores that step all over each other.  Similarly I am pretty much gonna go to dynamic clothing and hair.

I am REALLY tired of the "buy a new morph, break my clothing" treadmill. The technology is there to get off but it wont happen if we keep buying stuff that doesn't use it.

Quote - I was litterally stupified to realize.....  Holy moley!  I could create any kind of face i really wanted.  The only exception the nose, though, even that now I'm toying with and realise..... I'd been missing out on a complete wealth of ability with Jessi.

The face room is a hidden gem in there really. Between the face room, the new shaping tools and dynamic cloth there is really no reason to have to buy endless sets of morphs any more.

Quote - One of the reasons I currently prefer Sydney is because the faceroom frees me from having to wait for people to produce endless sets of slightly different mores that step all over each other.  Similarly I am pretty much gonna go to dynamic clothing and hair.

 

Be aware that P7 cloth room has some bad bugs in it.  Apparently hitting cancel button can cause textures to go nuts and in my case it was the probable cause for corruption of a scene file.

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You know, Xenia, if you want people to be open, helpful, honest and friendly, it's generally better not to be impolite.

Pretty much every post you've made in this thread has been abrupt, condescending or downright rude. You've asked people for their opinions and they've given them. Next time they may not bother.

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

The only comments i have made that have been impolite have been in retaliation to rude or condescending comments made to me. i asked for opinions to help me make up my mind before spending a lot of money but now i've got an iPod instead, i don't care anymore.

I've got one on it's way to me too!!    I love iTunes, no really I do, and it will be cool to use that interface to get my music organizing done.  I have an mp3 player but I'm going to load up some music I think my mom will like and send that on to her to have.  Maybe not.... still thinking on it.  Might be too hard for her to get her head around.  Not as easy as iPods are to use.... :sad:

---Wolff On The Prowl---

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In the end, the whole thing depends on whether or not you have/want to spend money on new Poser content. I have no intention on abandoning V3 for V4. V4 is just something new to play with that I got at a reasonable price because I am a PC member. I even once and awhile use V2 because I have some old, but nice characters for her. The only Poser folk I do not care for are the ones that come with Poser because, IMHO, they are homely. But that is subjective. I know artists here that still love Judy and do nice things with her. I know that some people love Jessi - I think she's ugly. Again, subjective. If money is tight and you are not sure if you want to go with V4, don't buy her until she has been out there for awhile. same goes for Poser 7. Again, just my opinion.

Quote - > Quote - She haves a very cool new features and a new way of mapping i have never seen before really.

It will be VERY familiar to anyone who has a copy of Apollo Max. In face Sydney and V4 both look like they borrow heavily from techniques Anton was using in Apollo years ago.

I hesitate to mention it, but I'm glad someone else has noticed. I see many Apolloish things in V4. There are many questions about this floating in my head. OMG, I LOVE my iPod. Mine is the green Mini. That baby goes everywhere with me. ^^ Say.... Has anyone made a iPod model? heeh heeh. Yeah, and it would be funny to have V4 wearing one. ;) bB

As Sidney is limited to the purchase of Poser 7, I bought V4 "complete". I have never had Apollo, so I can only say that if this is "borrowed" from Anton's ideas, then I'm sorry I haven't jumped on the train then. I don't want to compare with Sidney. I can't. I can only say that V4 impresses me a lot. The mesh is really improved (far from perfect, but I'd say at least twice as good asV3). Apart from a bizarre set of name morphs (Maria's lips, Conchita's eyes,...)the morphs are much clearer and well organised. It's easy to use them and see what happens.

The thing I was most afraid of were the eyes. Well, making them slightly larger and closing the upper eyelids a bit made them, for me, much better.

Here's a quick render. I'm not there yet, but, unfortunately perhaps for merchants, she's so easy to tweak than I'll only be buying a few top-quality skins I really like.

I think they put random woman names on the various morphs you'd otherwise expect to be "Ethnic" morphs for political correctness reasons - after all there ARE more than two African-American face structures in the world.

You and I have the same issue with the eyes I think, one just has to be really careful messing with them to really get them to look different without breaking anything.  Beautiful render by the way.

re: skins the DAZ high-rez skin is pretty clearly the best available so far as I've seen, and the Jojo character pack from PoserPros is pretty good as well, the others seem to have a really bland, featureless look to them.  None have the character that Tendom's or Blackhearted/Rio's skins do for V3 (looking forward to offerings from those two for sure)

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Pjz99, I think you are right on the character names vs ethnic names for the morphs.  I can really see the reasoning behind that too.  When I used V3, I always wondered if there was any science behind the international morphs or if anyone would be offended.  I tried dialling in my ex-girlfriend's mixed heritage and she and I agreed that it was nothing like what we expected.

Still, I prefer a more concrete name to generic names.  I have no clue what a Maria is supposed to look like.  I find myself in a position of being much more random when I'm trying to dial a face.

At least with V3 I knew what "Asian" was going to do to my character's eyes or what "Roman" was going to do to the nose!

Understood, I find it a bit irritating too.  On top of that most of the "character" morphs really don't look that good, so unless I'm trying to whistle up an unpleasant looking character I avoid them anyway.

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I have her and the only thing I don't like so far are the eyebrows painted on the mesh, but that doesn't stop me from using her. Daz will not ban you for getting refunds, they have always been great about that, and have been since the zygote days. Sounds like no matter what you aren't going to like her so the solution is easy, don't buy her.  8^)
Marque

The problem with the picture above is that it generally means nothing to me because I never use the default faces. As long as the figure starts out looking somewhat human and has a mesh capable of being shifted, the default can look like anything.

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And the bodies...

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

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And from behind...

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Quote - The problem with the picture above is that it generally means nothing to me because I never use the default faces. As long as the figure starts out looking somewhat human and has a mesh capable of being shifted, the default can look like anything.

 

That's what I never got about this whole thread, along with some others (e.g. V4 vs. Sydney).  Who cares the default looks like? 

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I can't understand how people can tell if someone "steals" their original mesh - ex. Apollo vs. whoever. GND vs Umotov. Can someone explain?

Quote - And from behind...

Wow. From behind, V4 /so/ wins.

Still waiting 'til there's more support, though.

Pjz99: thanks.
The names can indeed refer to ethnic types, but the names are confusing.  It would have been great if in the readme there had been a folder with thumbnails of the different faces.
As for skins: I do have several by Blackhearted and Rio and I like them a lot.
Thing is this mesh really invites to create one's own characters.
The eyes are indeed something to look into from closer by. More than a dreamy or a blank stare is difficult to achieve. Plus: often I have the feeling the eyes pop out a bit, just like as if she were suffering from an hyperactive thyroid gland.
The standard face resembles SP a lot.

Don't know if you decided to buy her now, cause this tread is some days old, but ...I understand. When I opened her the first time in Poser I wasn't very satisfied with her, too... Now that I'm used to her and did a few images with her, I really like her a lot and I think she has a lot of possibilities. Unfortunately I don't have Zbrush ( I would love to have), and I'm very curious to see what other modelers are doing with her...You can take a look at my gallery there are some images with V4.. Believe me , she's worth the try...

soandso bought an ipod and that seems to be that. 

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ExpressnImg just released Laurie over at Daz. Guess I already found "my" skin. The ones I have by him are really top quality. And this is no exception.
Blue, green and brown eyes and:
To add what Daz doesn't show: no forced tan lines but a natural Mediterranean sun bronze , pubic hair and sex.

Good tip, I'll go check that out myself.  Thank you!

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I have to agree that the V4 base is very funny looking. I'm a Platinum member so I got her cheaper. However, without the morphs that I bought with the pack, I would have found her totally unusable. I also think that some of the face morphs are qhite unatractive aswell. I've only doneone render with V4 and I spent A LOT of time trying to morph a pretty face. The hot body morph options are worth the purchase though.

Quote - *'I can't understand how people can tell if someone "steals" their original mesh - ex. Apollo vs. whoever. GND vs Umotov. Can someone explain?'

*I don't know the ins and outs about recognising mesh infringements either. But I don't think this is what a few other posters have been referring to. I have also recognised specific similarities in the overall design, functionality and feel of V4 compared to Apollo (beyond them both being Poser/DS human figures - well, duh!) . But it isn't a mesh issue.

 

PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.

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Quote - i don't know if it's just me but from what i've seen so far, V4 really fell out of the ugly tree and hit quite a few branches. When she first came out, i was really excited and some of the packages for her are nice enough, but the more i see of her in the galleries and compared to V3, she's a real dog. Her body reminds me of Miki (ie. a stumpy boyish figure that's overdosed on steriods) but seeing as i always do portraits, i don't really care that much, it's her face that isn't pretty. i know in time more morph packs and merchants producing characters for her will help and eventually i will have no choice cause everyone will be using her, but at the moment i'm really not convinced enough to bother purchasing her and i think i might just stick with V3 and A3. So does anyone else feel the same or am i alone here?

YOU ARE NOT ALONE ! LOL! I will stick to V3, A3 and Miki ;)

As much as I hate to concede, after reading the threads and looking at various products for V4 and Sydney, I'm going to give DAZ their ransom and buy V4. Sydney is another niche model, fine if you want your women to all look like Sydney in makeup. (And it didn't help that CP is promoting Sydney as some sort of Kill Bill/Femme Nikita bitch. There are times, in PoserLand, when I feel like I've wandered into a pre-teen sex orgy....)

Versatility was the decider for me. I have yet to see a figure (Judy comes closest, but she has other problems) that doesn't give away its origins no matter how thoroughly anyone but a master morpher tries. V4 has a truly malleable facial mesh; just the images in this thread demonstrate that.

As for ugly/not ugly -- I can't think of a more trivial issue. Beauty, contrary to the claims of California Aryan "science," is just a flavor of the month. What makes a face live is character, emotional depth, and intelligence, not proportions and skin texture. Some of the most "beautiful" women in fine art would be "butt ugly" in our self-important usage, if they came to life.

M

Another benefit of waiting sceptically on V4 is that I realized in time that the so-called "Pro" version I was weighing against the worthless $29.00 PC membership is no bargain unless you are NOT a pro. Who needs a couple bunches of conforming hair, a handful of "characters,"  some DAZ-style mediocre texture maps, and a handful of Disneyworld sexy outfits when you've got P6, much less P7, to  produce stuff yourself and adapt perfectly good items you already have?  Plus trusting PhilC to do a V4 plugin for WW any day now.

The "deal" is  V4 Complete,  which is the minimum anyone would need to make the figure reasonably usable out of the box. (As I said elsewhere, buying the Base makes about as much sense as buying a car with no tires, steering wheel, or windshield. A little too Heathkit for my taste.) That's $34, with about $10 off but a net of $55 if you get a PC membership. That leaves me down $20. "Pro" costs $77 net, and I'll never use any of it but the High Res textures, and that's iffy.

So I'll just buy her and be done with it. Those of you who didn't pillage the PC during the Hex debacle will undoubtedly find $20 worth of stuff to justify the membership. Go with my blessings.

It looks like DAZ is using osmosis to get ideas for morph names from me. Let me tell you, you haven't seen anything yet; try figuring out what a morph named "frog softener" does ;p

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Attached Link: http://poserpros.daz3d.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=57262

The Great Poser Bending Test

And me playing around with v4

It's called mixing and matching packages, though the Body shape is something I dialed up.

The eyes are tricky. I find I have to darken the whites and dim the corneas/tear sections or get rid of the tear part entirely. Eye reflections do help.

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Personally, I think the tear adds a lot to the believability of the eyes... go to the bathroom and look in the mirror for a while.. roll your head around to different angle in the light :).  Of course too much, like all things, can be too much.

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Yeah, it's just a bit intense with the default settings in some situations.  Many of the promo pics it looks like she's been peeling onions right before the pic was taken.  I think it's a really nice effect when it's appropriate, easy enough to tone it down a bit from materials room.

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Hex debacle?

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1347718

I made a quick render of V4 a couple of days ago, almost out of the box, I only used one of the character presets (Lisa) on her with the dial set at between 0.5 and 0.6, the texture is V4's Standard...  I don't think she looks that ugly at all even if she hasn't been morphed all that much.

Lucie
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What is beautiful and what is not can't really be discussed. Some thing Posette is the most beautiful female in Poser, some prefer V3, some V4 and some even SP3, whom I personally think is so ugly she almost makes Judy look handsome (BTW Does ANYONE think Judy is pretty?)

The thing is, it's not about how the default look is, but what you can do with it. And since I've been doing quite a lot of face morphs, I think I can say this with some authority: V4's facial mesh is a DREAM to morph. Sure, I use an external program for it, but nevertheless, it's a lovely mesh and it's easy to make it look nothing like the default.

And THAT is what counts to me. I've never had much luck (despite numerous attempts) to make Posette look like anything other than Posette - I can make her look like different posettes but there's something abut her that almost always give her away. But V4, I've already managed to make her look quite different from her original self.

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You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
  Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.

V4 ugly? Hardly...a couple/few things that helped me though: painting darker eyebrows and using the phenome freebie (you'd be suprised at how those two things help IMO to bring out a character).  The character in the pic is all dial-spinning and lighting otherwise (no magnets or anything else).  I can't wait for DAZ to come out with some add'l muscle, ethnicity and creature morphs though so I can REALLY see what sorts of creations are possible. :thumbupboth:

Wow!   That's quite an image.  What a bod, what a tan, what a look.  She's purty for sure!!

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default V4 isn't ugly by a longshot... the difference between her and V3 is like the difference between V3 and posette. Infact, the default (as seen on the V4 product page @ Daz) look a lot like my friend Ruth. And she isn't ugly either :p

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... but a default V4 render is sure prettier to look at than a default V3 render. (2c)

So true!!

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Here is a screen capture of a test render for Holly, a custom-morphed character I gave away at Faeries Wylde for the solstice, and Christmas. V4 can be young and cute too. Click to see the full-sized image, as it appears slightly blurry here. I have lots of plans for V4 characters.

Sebastian

Very cute indeed!! 

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Quote - Here is a screen capture of a test render for Holly, a custom-morphed character I gave away at Faeries Wylde for the solstice, and Christmas. V4 can be young and cute too. Click to see the full-sized image, as it appears slightly blurry here.
I have lots of plans for V4 characters.

Sebastian

 

Nicely done; and that's what I find so nice about V4: the versatily.  It's still early in the game for the model and I've already seen a good deal of variety in what folks can do with her.

Yep, a very fine Poser figure, very flexible and configurable.

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Quote - i'm asking for opinions about V4 before forking out $40 for her, not how ugly your dog is.

 

Here is my opinion. I don't use poser, to confusing for my old brain
After loading v3 and v4 into Daz Studio and using the same face morph on her along with the same top, which by the way were both for v3 I have decided i will not bother with v4 until 1: the price drops on the bundle product, 2: i find some way of using the clothing/morphs/hair i have for v3 on her with out having to spend an hour just to get a top to fit.

As for looks well the morphs are what gives v3,v4,steph,aiko,laura,hiro,m3 and so on their looks, for the standard model v4 looks ok.

I have opinions of my own -- strong opinions -- but I don't always agree with them.

 

How did you get a V3 face morph onto V4?  They're a completely different mesh, I'd expect it wouldn't load?

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