Ok.... I think I'm going to bite the bullet and upgrade my computer. I think this thing is running on life support so before it goes totally caputs I would like to be able to salvage my hard drive contents!

Currently I have a Pentium 3, 1 gig processor with a Rage Fury Pro graphic card, 384 mb of SDRAM. As for the rest, I have no clue.

I want a computer that is more than what I need right now so that I grow into it and not have it be obsolete to my needs in 6 months time like the first computer I bought was.

Here is what I want I think I want:

Large hard drive. My current one is 40 gigs and I'm always struggling to get space. If it weren't for a 20 gig external drive I wouldn't even have room on my hard drive to defrag it. I'm thinking 250 gig partitioned.
Lots of RAM. I don't know what the difference is between DDR and SDRAM. My laptop had 512 of DDR. My desktop has 384 of SDR. I want enough to run Poser and some to spare so that I don't have to turn everything off while I have Poser open.
I want a graphic card that is capable of Open GL.
A fast processor. AMD models need not apply!! (Sorry, had a really bad experience with AMD on my first computer and after a year of total grief with it I changed to Pentium 3 and had no further problems and I'm gun shy from AMD brand now)
A mother board that will support it all and allow me to upgrade memory and hard drive if I want to in the future.
Maybe a DVD Burner. Depends on price. I may have to just settle for keeping my old CD Burner for now.
No monitor. I will have to stick with the one I have for the time being.
Anything else inside that a computer needs.
Power supply that will run it.

I don't know very much about computers. So before I call and have a sales guy at the computer store price something out to me based on his knowledge, I want to get some facts from you guys.

My budget is about $1200.00 maybe $1500.00.

Please tell me what I should be asking them to price out... models, brands whatever (Links to the item will help). I just don't want to be dependent on a guy earning a commission who is trying to undersell me an inflated priced package like the first sales guy did with my first computer.

If all goes as planned, I will have a new computer that is capable of running Poser, by the end of the month!

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Acadia, you have two paths to follow: custom built or off the shelf name brand. SInce you appear to be more of a software oriented person rather than tech enthusiast, may I suggest you consider purchasing a Dell desktop? ( No, I don't work for Dell or own any of their stock.)
I'd try giving their website a careful perusal, then give them a call at their toll free number. Tell the rep exactly how you plan to use your computer to avoid going through an endless list of available configurations. You'll want two gigs of memory, and an AGP profile video card with at least 256 megs of onboard ram. Since you're a Poser user, I'd opt for as large a hard drive as I could afford. Whether you go for a dual core or not is your call, but I'd seriously consider a dc motherboard to prevent your system from becoming obsolete before it's out of the box.
Dell also offers the option of purchasing a refurbished system that can be upgraded to meet your needs. You may also wish to check with friends and relatives since many businesses have discount plans with Dell that allow employees to purchase their systems at appreciable discounts. For example, my brother receives a ten per cent discount on all his Dell purchases through the company he works for.
Good luck.

Quote - Acadia, you have two paths to follow: custom built or off the shelf name brand. SInce you appear to be more of a software oriented person rather than tech enthusiast, may I suggest you consider purchasing a Dell desktop? ( No, I don't work for Dell or own any of their stock.)
I'd try giving their website a careful perusal, then give them a call at their toll free number. Tell the rep exactly how you plan to use your computer to avoid going through an endless list of available configurations. You'll want two gigs of memory, and an AGP profile video card with at least 256 megs of onboard ram. Since you're a Poser user, I'd opt for as large a hard drive as I could afford. Whether you go for a dual core or not is your call, but I'd seriously consider a dc motherboard to prevent your system from becoming obsolete before it's out of the box.
Dell also offers the option of purchasing a refurbished system that can be upgraded to meet your needs. You may also wish to check with friends and relatives since many businesses have discount plans with Dell that allow employees to purchase their systems at appreciable discounts. For example, my brother receives a ten per cent discount on all his Dell purchases through the company he works for.
Good luck.

I will absolutely not spend my money on a crappy Dell. Based on my laptop experience I have found out first hand that their products are not built to last and that they don't care about the customer.

I want to have something custom built by either my nephew or the local computer company who did my computer upgrade.

I want to get a price from them. And I want to be able to search out the components myself and see if I can buy them cheaper and then just pay to have it put together.

I bought my first computer in 2000 from a local company, and had a year of blue screen crashing nightmares and reformats every 3 weeks because it had substandard parts. 11 months after that I took it to another company and had them gut it and put in all new and different parts. It cost me $1700.00 that was in February 2001. I never saw another blue screen after that, and it's the computer that I'm using right now. It's only lately that something is going on with it. It might just need to be cleaned out because I've never done that. But it's not really capable of running poser very well. I need to jump through hoops to render an image either through reducing texture sizes, hiding parts, and rendering in pieces. I can't even render with raytracing.

In 2002 I bought a Dell laptop and didn't really like it much and didn't use it save for maybe 12 times for the first 20 months. Then I started to use it regularly after that and 18 months later, 5 months after the warranty expired, the motherboard failed. They didn't even have the courtesy to acknowledge my correspondence to them until I spent all day steam rolling my way through their various departments. The result was basically that they don't care what happens to you after they have your money.

I'm hoping to be able to get a good computer cheaper this time by being more informed and perhaps purchasing what I need myself without having to pay the inflated prices.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Okay, I'll stick my neck out and let others chop it off. Here's my guess for what you want:

Get as big as you can afford but not less than160Gb. You can get 320Gb or more now, and HD space is so cheap you should consider getting as much as you can.
2Gb Ram, assuming you're not intending to go for a 64-bit machine (may be too expensive?) is the maximum usable under 32-bit win xp. Go for as much as you can afford. With a modern board it's likely to be DDR memory, which is the successor to SDRAM.
Buy nVidia. I'd hesitate to suggest a model - these things keep changing - but all the recent ones seem to work well enough with OpenGL. So do ATI cards allegedly, but I've had some bad experiences with them.
Agree entirely, go Intel! Probably a P4 will do, 3GHz plus, but I'm not up to date with the latest Intel processors; I just know that they get very expensive as you get to the bleeding edge!
I always use Asus mobos when building machines, I've never had a bad experience with one. So I don't know much about other makes, I'm afraid.
Yes, definitely a DVD burner, not much more expensive than a CD burner now. You can even find good inexpensive dual-layer DVD burners, although the blanks are expensive.
Fair enough.
Sound is probably on the mobo nowadays, which is good enough for listening to video tuts, etc. Networking also probably on the board. Make sure you have plenty of USB ports, preferably on the front of the machine, so you don't have to grovel round the back to plug things like memory sticks or camera cables in.
Go for 400 watt minimum. You can run into problems with lower rated supplies.

You can either source this stuff and get someone to build it, or buy a ready-to-wear PC. In that case you get what you're given, but the above might give some pointers to what to look for.

Steve

Attached Link: TigerDirect

you could also check TigerDirect i have one of their gaming PC's because it come with most of what you are asking since most games are graphics heavy they make good 3d application machines. you can also get parts or do a customization if only for pricing they have a customizing link where you can build your own machine so you can get an idea of pricing

You might as well pay attention because you can't afford Free speech

You might as well PAY attention, because you can't afford FREE speech

Ouch

When it comes to the over the counter computers, I had good experiences with Gateways ($$), and GREAT experiences with Sony Vaios ($$$).
If I were to get something new on a budget I'd scour Ebay for a year or so old Vaio. You can find really really decent computers for around a $1000. Considering your computer seems to be about 5-6 years old, you could get a screamer (in comparison) for that much money.
Perhaps spmething similar to this: http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-Vaio-VGC-RA830G-P4-3-4-Ghz-1GB-320-GB-Media-PC_W0QQitemZ200066114779QQihZ010QQcategoryZ140074QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If you want to go with the latest and greatest, Personally, I'd have it custom built by a place like this outrfit: http://www.xicomputer.com/products/mtowersp4home.asp (They happen to be local here to me) and I've known the guys for years. They build awsome computers.

Or I might go for an 'over the counter' computer...
Personally I tend to stay away from HP's Dells, and Especially E-machines, since I had bad experiences with them.
For the last year I've been using a high end Gateway at the office, for 3D terrain modelling, and I'm pretty darn happy with it. So, if I were to run to Best Buy or Fry's and get a new computer, Gateways are probably the first one's I'd check out.

Considering that I don't go with the latest and the greatest, and at the moment I'm not in a splurge mode, I'd [probably pick up a Vaio from Ebay. I have 3 Vaio's at home, one is probably 6 years old or more, and it's still ticikng like a swiss watch (at it's mighty 1.2 GHz) (LOL)

The Dual Core E-machine I got myself talked into about a year ago has taken a big dump since I got it, and it's turned into a bookend.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!" Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

I can offer some guidelines, but they are only my own personal opinion, as there is no "correct" configuration. The following is what I would look for if I was buying one personally:

(In the order you mentioned them):

Harddisk. Try and look for a Seagate Barracuda 7200.10. They're high quality, very durable and quite silent. They come in various sizes, depending on your wallet, but aren't much more expensive than other harddisks (Very important it's a 7200.10 and not 7200.9 for example, as it refers to a newer model with better construction).
RAM. Here you just want as much as possible, 2 or more GB would be excellent for Poser, although if you use Poser 7 it's not as important as with earlier versions. From what I know, there isn't really a lot of difference between the various manufacturers. Kingston are usually considered good quality. SDRAM is an older type (and currently being phased out afaik) than DDR and DDR2. You have to make sure that the RAM will fit the motherboard, as each type have a different number of pins (the socket is different). The specs for the motherboard will show what type of RAM you need though, so that shouldn't be a problem.
GFX CARD. Any modern gfx card will be capable of handling Poser np at all. Typically Nvidia based cards are known to be better compatible with OpenGL than ATI based cards, but I have no personal experience with that. This is where you can save some money IMO. Something like a GeForce 6600, GeForce 7600 or similar would be excellent. I would personally go for a PCI-E based card, as AGP cards are being phased out and most modern motherboards only support PCI-E gfx cards anyway.
CPU. Here it depends a bit if you're using Poser 7 or older as well, as Poser 7 supports dual core processors, but the older versions do not. So for instance, if you still use Poser 6 and buy a dual core processor, it would only be able to use one of its processors for rendering. If you want to make your machine as "future-proof" as possible, I'd suggest a dual core anyway though, as it's easier to upgrade your Poser version than it is the processor.
Motherboard. Perhaps someone else will be able to give you better advice on this one than I can, as I honestly don't know much about the various brands and models available. What you have to make sure is that you get one that supports the type of RAM, CPU and GFX CARD that you buy. If you're set on an Intel processor, then you'll have to look for Socket 775 motherboards.
DVD Burner. These are dirt cheap now, however you might want to consider an external USB 2.0 harddrive instead. I have one that cost about 125 US Dollars (I live in Europe, so I'm not sure of how the prices might be in Canada), but it holds 250 GB and you can bring that with you if you need to go somewhere instead of burning DVD's. It doesn't need any installation or any drivers or anything, you just plug the USB cable into a computer with a free USB slot and you can access it right away (this is only true if the computer has Windows 2000 / XP installed, but I assume most newer ones will).

7 and 8. You answered these already :) Apart from the above mentioned stuff, you might consider a sound card or just go with the onboard sound if that's not an issue for you.

Power Supply. A good quality power supply is not to be underestimated. Companies like Akasa make excellent quality power supplies and I'd personally look for a 400+ W power supply (although without getting too technical, it's not the wattage that is the most important, but I don't think it's necessary to worry about that). If you buy an Akasa 400W, that will do you nicely.

Good luck with it! It's a jungle out there, I hope you get something you will be happy with!

Definitely get a good quality power supply 450+ w as the newer hardware continues to up the power demand necessary to run them right. Nothing like a flakey power situation to cause all sorts of computer maladies.

Check our Newegg for great prices and service, and good user reviews for most of the products they carry.

Quote - I can offer some guidelines, but they are only my own personal opinion, as there is no "correct" configuration. The following is what I would look for if I was buying one personally:

(In the order you mentioned them):

Harddisk. Try and look for a Seagate Barracuda 7200.10. They're high quality, very durable and quite silent. They come in various sizes, depending on your wallet, but aren't much more expensive than other harddisks (Very important it's a 7200.10 and not 7200.9 for example, as it refers to a newer model with better construction).

Good luck with it! It's a jungle out there, I hope you get something you will be happy with!

The hard drive I currently have is a Maxtor 40 gig, 7200. That much I remember. I'll be sure to ask for 7200.10 though.

I hope I get something that is durable. I'm tired of having computer issues, LOL

Thanks everyone for the advice thus far. I'm paying close attention.

Please keep the suggestions coming. I'm going to start pricing it out at the end of the week when I have more time to dedicate to it. I'm not leaping into anything until I get all of the facts this time around :)

When I do have something "put together", I'll post it back here and ask for input on it too, just to make sure, hehe

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

video cards- like it was said above agp's are being phased out and pci's are the new champ. but that's not to say that an agp won't work for you now and/or the next couple of years. might even be cheaper for you.

make sure your motherboard can support your ram (2g's) and video card.

harddrive- as big as you can get.

400 watt minimum power supply.

also, because you are sticking all of this neat, great working crap inside a little case you need to take into account cooling/ventilation fans. they are cheap and make a great difference. i added 4 extra fans (2 ins and 2 outs) just to provide a nice stable supply of air over everything. i take it apart once a year and blow it out. cough, cough, cough

Comitted to excellence through art.

All those fans make noise. Check out http://www.endpcnoise.com and other places for a quieter approach. Also, there are video cards, agp or pci, without fans. Search them out at newegg, under video cards, fanless option.

BTW, for more than 10 years of building computers for myself I've used AMD processors without any problem from them. Intel is the hot brand now a days, however.

After years of building PCs, I was about to build a new one when I popped down to my computer store and found an end of range HP media centre PC for a ridiculously low price, cheaper than I could have built one for!

It's worth scouting your local stores for such deals - media centres or gaming PCs are ideal as they are built with graphics in mind

Good luck

DD

yes, fans add noise but i would rather have my gear work than fail due to overheating issues.

Comitted to excellence through art.

Do NOT get ATI Radeon if you plan on using UVMapper at any point :/ As soon as I have the cash I'm going back to nVidia and staying there.

why there is a radeon/nvidia war i just don't know.
i play games and do lots of intense 3d modeling with a radeon card (uv mapper pro too) and have no issues at all!

personally, either card will be good. they both do the same thing.
don't confuse the poor girl.

arcadia, either nvidia or radeon will work for you. it really comes down to what mobo is linked with what card and what chip and what driver you are using. some work great together and some don't.

i encourage you to do some homework over at overclockersaustrailia.com
they have a section where peps post their gear and benchmarks and from all of that data you can get a pretty fair idea of what is working well together.

there are some kickass systems out there that use radeon and that use nvidia.

Comitted to excellence through art.

This is the point where it's pleasure and pain. You simply need to aquire the knowledge necessary to make an informed decision that will best please your budget, and the advice given here is very good.

I ended up buying on eBay, but I had already decided on the machine, and only needed to shop for a good deal (and an auction I felt comfortable with). If you go that route, be patient. Even if you don't buy there, it's useful to watch auctions and see what sort of configurations are selling for in your price range. In this way a good sense of just what to pay and pay attention to will develop, and perhaps a great deal may be found. After loosing three auctions because I refused to pay more, I put in a low bid on a great machine and won.

I went from a Dell 8200 purchased from Dell to a Mac Pro. I don't regret buying either. It was a logical step, and I knew that in the end spending more would be worth it. Don't hesitate to look a bit beyond your budget. You too may fall glassy eyed at feet of the multi-core kingdom!

I wasn't trying to confuse anyone, but many Radeon users have reported issues with some Poser applications and I can confirm it. Up until that card I've never experienced any of the problems I now encounter.

Quote - why there is a radeon/nvidia war i just don't know.
i play games and do lots of intense 3d modeling with a radeon card (uv mapper pro too) and have no issues at all!

personally, either card will be good. they both do the same thing.
don't confuse the poor girl.

arcadia, either nvidia or radeon will work for you. it really comes down to what mobo is linked with what card and what chip and what driver you are using. some work great together and some don't.

Thanks. My laptop had a nVidia graphic card (forget the model) but it didn't have Open GL capability.. And my desktop has the ATI Radeon Rage Pro Fury with Open GL capability which won't work on my system though :(

I can't really say I noticed any difference between them because of the difference in the monitors between computers. My laptop had high resolution LCD monitor whereas my desktop monitor was purchased with my first computer system in 2000, but I think that while it was new, that it was a few years older than that (my scanner and printer that came with the system were new unused 1997 models so I have no reason to believe they didn't do the same thing with the monitor).

I wish I could get a new monitor but I can't afford to at this point. It's either a new monitor or a new computer, and if my computer up and dies a new monitor isn't going to do me much good, LOL

Quote - This is the point where it's pleasure and pain. You simply need to aquire the knowledge necessary to make an informed decision that will best please your budget, and the advice given here is very good.

Yes, that's my plan. I want to make an informed decision so I'm gathering information.

Quote - I ended up buying on eBay

Thanks, but I'm not really comfortable with online auctions. I know people say that it's mostly businesses that sell stuff there but I'm leary about getting ripped off and paying for something that I don't get. Plus I want to make sure that I'm getting something brand spanking new and not someone's used headaches.

Quote - Don't hesitate to look a bit beyond your budget. You too may fall glassy eyed at feet of the multi-core kingdom!

I wish I could look beyond my budget, but since I'm paying cash for it, I can't. In the past 7 years I've spent almost $10,000 Canadian dollars on 2 computers (First computer package = $2,000.00; Upgrade 1 year later = $1,700.00; Dell Laptop = $6,000.00 with financing) and out of that I have one working computer that is running on life support. So I'm trying to do the best I can with up to $1500.00 budget. I could wait 3 or 4 months and save up some more, but I don't think my desktop will live that long.

I forgot to add that I'm in Canada, so whatever the price is in USD, it's about double up here, and ordering from the US is not an option for me because of shipping, duty, brokerage fees, 13% taxes and currency exchange rates.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Bang for buck, you will always do much, much better with a desktop PC than you will with a laptop. Desktops are always much, much cheaper and easier to repair if you ever have a hardware problem.

If I can make a few recommendations:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131006R
$62 ASUS Motherboard, pretty good quality, up to 4GB of memory in 4 slots, Socket 775 processor socket
I've owned many ASUS motherboards, always rock solid

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115003
$317 Intel Core 2 Duo E6600, an extremely popular and well-loved dual-core processor - I skipped this generation and went to the quad core version of the same series but I've read many, many positive things said about this particular chip

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145530
$56 each, this is two 512MB memory SIMMs, for 1GB per box. Suggest two for $112.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130048
$220 EVGA Nvidia 7800GTX (I've owned this card, good stable compatible card, very fast)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148140
$95, a good 250GB Seagate hard disk (I've owned several of this model, well behaved)

Some case and power supply; be aware that for high powered graphics cards and processors, you REALLY want to stick to 600 watts or higher. I can't really recommend a case+power supply combo, because nearly always, the power supply is something you will end up throwing away; twice now I've gone with too-small power supplies and had serious stability problems (machine crashes) because there simply wasn't enough juice coming out of the power supply. Choice of case is largely a question of your aesthetic preference, in a mechanical sense they are all pretty much the same. A decent case will generally be about $60 and will come with a power supply you can use to hold loose papers down on windy days. A large collection can be viewed here:
http://www.newegg.com/ProductSort/SubCategory.asp?SubCategory=7&name=ATX-Computer-Cases
$60 or thereabouts.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817702003
$120, 650 watt power supply by BFG Tech (I've owned several BFG Tech products, made to pretty good standards and low price).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827131015
$25 DVD-RW drive by Sony (I've owned this one)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16821103116
$8 floppy disk drive by Sony (duh it's a floppy, you still need one :tt2: )

Grand total:
$963 with 1GB, 1015 with 2GB. It's pretty unilikely you will find a package deal of comparable part quality at this price; if you do, it is likely some corners were cut that I personally would not cut, myself. Mouse and keyboard I did not include, as I presume you can probably keep using the ones you currently have, or whatever.

O, your budget is $1500 US? Hmm, then you have enough for a monitor after all, don't you?
http://www.newegg.com/ProductSort/Category.asp?Category=19&name=Monitors
For your browsing pleasure...

PS: "some assembly required."

My Freebies

I'm late in the game but here goes...

Sadly, I really do work the internet help desk. Please... someone shoot me... anyways... You've got a lot of good advice so I'm not going to rehash it all. but what I will say is...

AMD 64 bit processors are un-freakin-godly. I have one and love it. This thing SMOKES. Of course I also run the 64 bit XP which I have mixed feelings about.
Get THE best computer you possibly can within your budget. Set your budget BEFORE you go shopping. And along that note...
3)Mo' RAM is mo betta. I reccomend for what you're going to be doing with it, 2 Gigs of RAM minimum. Just me.
and 4) The faster the processor the better.
get a bg ass honkin hard drive. You'll need it.
as far as video cards go... Hail Nvidia! again, you'll want to get a high end, and this expensive card. I alos like ATI too.
Remember, yoou'll get what you pay for. And when it comes to computers, that's a real b!tch some times. :(
Now I am also reccomending to people that they WAIT to put the new Windows Vista on thier PC till at least the first service pack comes out. Who all remembers the horrors of the inital launch of XP?
The bottom line is, get the best possible computer you possibly can... WITH IN YOUR BUDGET. It's that much longer untill you'll have to upgrade.
Well that was my 22 and a third cents... amazing how some people just babble on when buzzing on percocet aint it? ;)

One more PS: If you want to spring an extra $200:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145527
$207 for a pair of 1GB SIMMs, 2 per box; recommend 2 pairs for $414, bringing you to 4GB memory (total price goes up to $1,321)

added bonus, free shipping for most or all of those parts.

My Freebies

Quote -

O, your budget is $1500 US? Hmm, then you have enough for a monitor after all, don't you?
http://www.newegg.com/ProductSort/Category.asp?Category=19&name=Monitors
For your browsing pleasure...

PS: "some assembly required."

My budget is $1200 to $1500 Canadian dollars. I live in Canada so deal with Canadian funds :)

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/rates/converter.html
$1321 US = $1543 CDN
On finding a Canadian hardware vendor, I cannot advise you, I have no experience buying from that side. However all these parts should be available and pricing SHOULD be similar.

My Freebies

Ohhh!!! Maybe i can indeed get a new monitor! I sure miss my flat screen LCD one, LOL

I won't get my hopes up for that though. I'm concentrating on the base computer first. If there is extra left over, then possibly, but I may just put that towards adding something else like even more memory or a larger hard drive.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

NOW can I b ur freind

My Freebies

Here's where the pain begins.

You should really consider a 500W+ power supply if you want a system to last a couple years and allow expansion (there are even 600W power supplies available now). The wattage is what determines how much hardware can be powered - the smaller, the fewer. 400-450 is acceptable, but do you really want to start at a literal hard-stop and pay for it when you want to extend it? Power supplies are relatively inexpensive. Make certain to get a power supply with the proper connectors - my dual Xeons required a special connector on the power supply which made choices limited.

Definitely go 1GB (or 2GB) RAM modules. Again, think ahead. If the mobo has four slots (like most) and you have two 1GB modules, you can upgrade to a 64-bit OS (if possible) and add 2GB more without selling the four 512MB modules. Most consumer mobos only support up to 4GB, even 64-bit. Those that support more are going to be costly for both the mobo and the additional memory.

Consider FSB speeds, onboard chipsets, the chipset, and cpu L2 cache. As mentioned, ASUS makes very good motherboards.

nVidia graphics - no contest here. PCI-Express if possible (all my machines are, regretably, AGP). Onboard graphics chipsets are usually minimal at best. You need a separate card to get the advantages. No less than 128MB - 256 or 512MB for 3D graphics/gaming is recommended.

I'm undecided between Intel and AMD these days. My Intel dual Xeon (old dual cpu 2.66) is very nice, but my dual core AMDx2 4800 64-bit is sweetly fast. Personally, I don't care as long as it performs and has the feature set useful to my needs. Haven't had a chance to see the new core-duo Intel chips in action other than my iMac G5 (which is a hard comparison with Windows-based computers).

Get - a - full - tower - case (Antec is good)!!! If you want a computer for the long haul, a mini tower is as good as getting a Toyota to haul a silver bullet and then upgrading it to a 34' Highline! I always want space for some sort of expansion - drives, drive bays, memory slots, PCI slots. Mobos that have 2 PCI slots in a case that only allows 2 harddrives are evil! Only good for auxilliary machines that do, say, farm rendering. For an all-purpose workstation, you want space for a floppy (maybe), a DVD-CD burner or two, up to three harddrives or more, and at least four PCI slots! Also consider the USB/Firewire connections available.

Go SATA on the drives if possible. Installing the OS with them is painful (requires drivers pre-designated), but performance is better than EIDE. 7200 or 10000 RPM, no less (5400 RPM drives are like floppies and you'll really only see them in old laptops these days).

My personal advice is avoid Dell, Gateway, and Alienware - expensive stuff that you can outdo for less. Building a machine yourself is a learning experience, but you avoid all of the caveats, limitations, and expenses of pre-built machines. Except for Macs, all of my computers since ... the mid 90's have been self built. You can get pre-built from others at better prices (as mentioned). My AMD is a prebuilt, but only cost $1500 for everything nearly two years ago when the usual cost was closer to $2000+.

Hmmm, what else. Get efficient cooling. Either quiet front and back fans or a liquid cooling system. But don't go for the gimicky 'LED fans' or neon tube cooling - this is just show, not function. Function and expansion are key here. It is hard to determine the direction of the wind - AMD or Intel, this cpu socket or the other, this memory type of the other (DDR, DDRAM, etc.), PCI-Express or AGP. So, read the markers and observe the reviews and news to see what has the most potential and support.

Definitely shop around. I was able to upgrade my AMD 3500 to AMDx2 4800 for around $130 (Egghead.com - something near $700 less than other prices). It was a deal not to be passed over. This is where decisions get complex. You may need to settle for spending less for a potential system and upgrading later when prices are lower than paying for the latest-greatest. Latest-greatest tends to be expensive-costly! If you have thousands of unwanted dollars to throw about, the LG principle can't fail (in the long run). If not, you have to strategize with choices that are economical, but future expandable.

This leads to my epilogue. Determining what current technologies will disappear and which will continue is not an easy endeavor. I think we tend to forget this aspect of our computing choices over the long run. It is not only a matter of 'BetaMAX-vs-VHS', but also one of new technologies being quickly surplanted by newer ones in very quick succession. I tend to stay a few years behind just because it is not worth the trouble of 'keeeping up with the Jones' and pouring money into the 'next best thing since sliced bread'. In essence, I'm saying that you should look for the latest-greatest from a year ago and buy that! By this time, it will be at least half the cost and still be very powerful.

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

-- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Quote - NOW can I b ur freind

Well..... ok. But can I have a cookie? hehe

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Quote - In essence, I'm saying that you should look for the latest-greatest from a year ago and buy that! By this time, it will be at least half the cost and still be very powerful.

Given the age of my current computer, stuff from a year ago will be hugely powerful for me!!!! I can't even imagine what that will be like because I've had space issues and speed issues and memory issues ever since I bought a computer.

If it wasn't for my driving need to use Poser and the problems that I'm encountering with my computer for the past few weeks, I would be completely happy to keep the desktop that I have because it meets my needs in every other way.

So essentially I really only need a larger hard drive, way more RAM and a faster processor. But because of the age of my computer and it's existing components, I can't upgrade to anything more than what is in there already, which is why I am needing to buy a whole new system. If I was able to upgrade just the hard drive and get the RAM that I wanted, that's all I would be looking into right now. It's also why I'm looking to get more than what I need in a computer so that I can grow into it and upgrade or add things as I need without having to go and buy a whole new system again when I reach the max capability of the computer like I have with this one.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Don't sweat it, you are making a good decision in doing a whole upgrade. In my experience I've always regretted going partway on some item or other and cutting a corner, I always ended up spending more money later than I would have if I'd done it right up front.

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oh, right.

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Quote - (there are even 600W power supplies available now).

My current power supply:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817702005

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My 2 cents, because I'm considering the same thing, if you are going to stick with a Windows based machine then wait 6 months for MS to work all the bugs out of Vista and build a machine around that. It will be able to use more than 2G ram because it's built on the same philosophy as a Mac. Oh, and speaking of Mac, there's a consideration! And Mac can run Windows.

Will a Mac fit into her budget?

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!" Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Larry-L:

Quote - My 2 cents, because I'm considering the same thing, if you are going to stick with a Windows based machine then wait 6 months for MS to work all the bugs out of Vista and build a machine around that.

Windows XP 64-bit is available now for around $80 US, and in my experience is the most stable operating system I've ever owned. You can wait six months if you really want to, but Acadia sounds pretty desperate.

No comment about Macs because I've no experience using or buying them.

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Macs are great, but you pay for the experience and they are a little slower (they used to be much slower when PPC, but the new core-duo Intels bring them closer to Windows speeds).

Currently the Mac Pro systems run about $2000 and up. You can get a good iMac Intel for about $1500, but there is no room for future expansion there (or in the MacBook or Mac mini).

Then there is the consideration of software. Yes, you can run Windows virtually (BootCamp or whatnot), but I don't subscribe to that unless you intend on using the MacOS and software at least 50% of the time - otherwise, it's a very expensive Windows emulation system. You can get more power for the same money in a PC system.

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

-- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Might as well get a DVD burner, they're like 25 bucks now, and media is less than 40 cents each in bulk.

I don't want a Mac computer. I have read so many posts from people not being able to install .exe files and all of my programs are .exe file installers. I want to stick with a PC because it's that I started with and it's what I know and am comfortable with.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Ok, probably a bit late in coming here but I have a few recommendations in this regard. Considering your budget and application I would probably recommend you take a good look at some of the higher end machines available from Best Buy in Canada.

Best Buy sells mostly HP and Emachines, and while you hear a lot of people scoff at emachines truth be told I've worked with them for several years and I can tell you from experience they build a nice, solid, stable system.

Although for graphics work I generally recommend the AMD processors with the 64 bit bus, considering your dislike for AMD (and yes, some of their earlier model processors were a bit twitchy) you can probably find what your looking for with a true intel processor in your price range.

I would recommend you purchase everything at once, including the memory upgrade, all as one bundle, that way everything will be covered under the store's warranty. While you can get more bang for your buck if you consider a refurb, since your not a "techy" type your probably better off sticking with a bundled system with the full warranty, that way if you do have any problems at all you can take it back to Best Buy and have them fix it for you.

Do not, however, purchase the "extended" warranty as these are buy and large a waste of money. If your system is up and running for at least 48 hours after you get it home odds are very, very good that the hardware will last longer than the useful life of the computer. In fact I still have an old 2001 series PET here at the house, featuring 16k of internal memory and a basic operating system, all the programs are loaded from tape drive because it was built in an era before hard drives existed. The thing still runs like a champ - despite the fact it is in computer terms a real antique, one of the very first PC's available on the home market.

Oh, and as a disclaimer, no I do not nor have I ever worked for Best Buy, I merely recommend them for most PC purchases for home users because they can bundle a quality system cheaper than most shops can build one simply because they have purchasing power that most other vendors can only imagine.

So unless your looking for a top of the line custom built system odds are pretty good Best Buy will give you the most bang for your buck, even if your bucks are in Canadian dollars. The only caveat I give in dealing with the folks at best buy is that you have a good idea what your looking for when you walk through the door - the knowledge of their sales people varies greatly and you often get the guy who really has little to no idea what he's talking about so his recommendations can often be less than exemplary.

As to my recommendations for your system, with your budget I'd recommend you look for something dual core in the 3 ghz + range, have them upgrade it to at least 2-3gig of ram, and something with at least 100 gb of drive space.

It's easy enough to add more drive space later if necessary, for example I recently purchased a 300 gb external USB drive for my network for $130 USD, and it comes in quite handy.

You will want a DVD burner of course, but really when you get into the type of machine your talking about above almost all of them will come with a dual layer DVD burner already. If you can get a good bundle deal on the monitor I'd probably take it, but I generally don't recommend you purchase a printer with that bundle - most of the printers you get with bundled systems aren't worth much once the original ink cartridges go dry, in fact in most cases you can buy a new printer cheaper than; you can buy the replacement ink cartridges.

Hope that helps.

Boy, I hope you are right about e-machines.

I had two of them, and both took a dive within few months of owning them. One, 5 years ago a week after I got it, the other just last summer, about 3 months into having it. It could be a streak of bad luck, I suppose.

Of all the other computers I had at home and at work (probably a three dozen) those were the only two that took a dive.... and to be fair my neighbors brand new HP came with a hard drive defect three years ago.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!" Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

I cannot recommend any packaged computer, but most particularly, avoid e-machines. I'm familiar with them myself and they're the worst at cutting corners I don't want to cut. And really imo you don't save any money; if you cut the same corners that e-machines or HP does, then your finished PC will be cheaper.

Avoid Best Buy and other mass retailers unless you first compare the price of comparable items from mail order retailers, because they are often more expensive (someone has to pay for all those people running around in blue shirts). A blanket "buy everything from the same store" is a bad idea when dealing with a storefront retailer, because the high sticker-shock items might be priced reasonably, but they stick you on the little stuff VERY hard. For example, a small power cable that might cost $3 from a mail order shop will often be $15 or more at the storefront.

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aw hell acadia,
just go buy an "easy bake oven" and call it good. :biggrin:

Comitted to excellence through art.

Okay, my 2 cents.

AMD versus Intel: AMD used to deliver much more bang for the buck. That has changed last summer when Intel released its Core 2 Duo line. If you go for new hardware, I HIGHLY recommend an Intel Core 2 Duo. Either an E6400 or E6600, they are FAST and fairly cheap.

Mainboard: go for a GOOD brand. Asus, Abit, Intel (highly recommended!) MSI, Gigabyte, Chaintech.
The best mainboards have passive southbridge cooling, which means there is no fan on the mainboard itself. Southbridge fans have the nasty tendency to stop working after a year or two, and an overheated southbridge means the end of your mainboard.

I can highly recommend the Intel BadAxe 2 mainboard. It's not cheap, but it fully supports the Intel Core 2 Duo chips, including the quad core QX6700, and it can hold at least 8 GB of RAM. Probably (I'd have to find out) even 16 GB.

Graphics: go nVidia. ATI makes excellent hardware, but the drivers are crap. Only DirectX tends to work well. The OpenGL support is lousy in my experience, except when you go for a FireGL card. The FireGLs are professional graphics card with certified drivers, comparable with the nVidia Quadro series. Very, very expensive, usually slower than their consumer counterparts. Not recommended, unless you use 3DS Max, Maya, Houdini or another high end 3D package with dedicated drivers.
Poser does not have dedicated drivers for professional 3D graphics cards. Neither do Vue, Bryce and DAZ|Studio. So a professional graphics card would be a waste of money.

A fairly fast nVidia graphics card is your best bet. 7600GT or 7900 GS/GT will do the job, not overly expensive, and it'll be fast enough for a couple of years to come.
Go PCI Express. Mainboards that support AGP are hard to come by, and if you can find one, it's probably relatively expensive.

RAM: Go DDR2. By now, DDR2-533 RAM is as cheap or cheaper than DDR400. Besides, DDR2 comes in larger modules, I've already seen DDR2-533 sticks of 4 GB each! Most mainboards have 4 memory slots, so you could upgrade your system to 16 GB using DDR2-533. With DDR400, the largest sticks are 1 GB, so you'd be stuck to a maximum of 4 GB.

DDR2-667 or DDR2-800 is faster than DDR2-533. The influence on system performance is not much, however, in a test using Vue 6 Infinite DDR2-667 performed only 1% better than DDR2-533 (while it SHOULD be 25% faster). DDR2-667 is much more expensive than DDR2-533. A waste of money.

Be prepared for 64 bit. I'm running WinXP 64bit on my Athlon64x2 4400+, and it's fast, reliable, and I can build and render scenes that were completely impossible under WinXP 32 bit.
I don't like Vista, I tried Vista RC1, and the visual goodies made it look like a Mac. So I couldn't find anything.

By the way, my Athlon64x2 only has SATA drives. WinXP 64bit installed without a hitch, no drivers needed for SATA.

Case: go for a good midtower or full tower. Antec, Chieftec, Coolermaster are good brands.
Power supply: it's all been said. Get lots of power, at least 500W, and get a GOOD quality PSU. The stability of the power output is more important than the raw amount of watts, I once exchanged a 400W Q-tec PSU (cheap) for a 300W Papst (good), and the system immediately ran more stable.

Fans: go for 120 mm fans wherever possible. Those run more silent than the older 80 mm fans, and their air displacement is significantly more. Whether you can use 120 mm case fans depends on the case.

Putting a desktop PC together from quality components is not that difficult, they usually come with a good manual. But if you don't feel up to building it yourself, most shops that sell the parts will assemble the machine for you for about $50-$100. Including warranties.

If you can spare the money for a monitor, I can highly recommend Samsung Syncmaster 19" displays. I've connected two Samsung Syncmaster 913v screens to my main Poser workstation, and it works like a dream! One screen for the scene, one screen for all the tools and palettes.

My recommendations in short:

Intel BadAxe 2 mainboard
Intel E6400 or E6600 CPU
2 x 2 GB DDR2-533 RAM
nVidia 7900 GT/GS graphics card (preferably GT, significantly faster)
Good quality midtower or fulltower case with 120 mm fan openings
Good quality PSU with at least 500 W output, and enough connectors to power just about anything.
Seagate 7200.10 SATA drives. Preferably 2 drives.
DVD burner. Go for a dual layer +/- RW drive, they're less than $50 these days.
Floppy drive.
Samsung Syncmaster 19" flatscreen(s).
Windows XP 64 bit.

The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter

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I am soooo confused!!!!! There is so much good information in this thread, and so much of it is contradictory from one post to another, LOL

I thought my computer completely died this evening. I was reading the forums and had 3 tabs open in Mozilla and went to open a 4th one and my computer shut itself off. I felt the tower and it was hot. So like the other times I let it cool down for a bit and then pulled up my secretary chair and got comfy, because her is where CPR comes into play when trying to turn my computer back on from a complete shut down, either when it does it randomly, or when I shut it down myself.

1. Turn OFF computer using switch at the back (needed step otherwise the front ON button won't turn on the computer)
2. Wait for all computer noises to stop
3. Turn ON the computer using the switch at the back
4. Turn ON computer using ON button in the front

At this point the computer powers on but shuts down within a second

Repeat steps 1 through 4 over and over and over...

Eventually as time progresses, the computer starts to stay on a little bit longer.

Finally when it stays on long enough for me to actually hear some noises coming from it IE: hard drive turning over, I have to listen for a soft click sound (that is if it gives the click sound at all, or stays on long enough to give the click sound). You know how when you start up your computer you hear the hard drive spin followed by a beep and then a soft click right after? Well, I don't get the "Beep", all I get is the soft click sound.

Anyway, I keep doing steps 1 to 4 until I get that soft click sound. And then when I hear the hard drive spin and hear that soft click sound I repeat steps 1 to 4 again and again as soon as I hear the click. If I'm really lucky and pray to every God ever known, eventually I'll hear the hard drive spin, get a beep sound followed by the click and my computer will boot up!!!

What is a PITA is the fact that if I stop and go and take a break and come back and try again, I lose whatever head way that I made.

Tonight it only took 3 hours and 20 minutes for that to happen!!!!!. Before it's taken up to 40 minutes, but never this long. I fear that if it shuts down again that it won't start up anymore :(

Anyway, I looked up the address of Powerland Computers where I live. They did my computer upgrade back in 2001.

They have a desktop page. Are there any packages there that look ok to purchase and build onto in order to customize it for my needs?

http://www.powerlandcomputers.com/desktops.html

The following is a list of what I plan on taking with me to discuss with them.

Quote -
What I want now

Pentium IV (Maybe dual core - ? Price)

1 GIG RAM plus whatever RAM that can be salvaged from the old computer

160 GIG hard drive (7200.10) - partitioned 60/60/40 (with access to all partitions please)
- Maybe a 250 GIG hard drive (7200.10) partitioned (60/80/80/20)

3D Graphic Card with OPEN GL -(either nVidia or ATI Radeon - ? Price)

Windows XP Home

600 Watt Power Supply

2 Internal Fans

Extra USB ports with front access

Floppy Drive

CD Drive

Extra spot for a DVD Burner (Future Purchase)

CD Burner (Salvaged from old computer)

**Future wants - I want to be able to:

**1. Upgrade to 4 GIGS of RAM without having to replace the computer’s current components or my 1 GIG of new RAM

Upgrade to a larger hard drive without having to replace the computer’s current components

Be able to install a DVD Burner without having to get rid of my current CD Burner (hence the request for the extra spot)

Salvage from old computer:

Whatever RAM that can be taken and used in the new computer over and above the 1 GIG

CD Burner put into new computer.

Transfer the contents from the 8 GIG hard drive to the old 40 GIG hard drive (Please do not reformat the 40 GIG hard drive!!!) Move the 40 GIG hard drive so that it replaces the 8 GIG hard drive and becomes my extra hard drive) If there is room, can the 8 GIG hard drive be left in as a second extra hard drive?

NOTE: I do not need to have all of the newest and most current / buff parts. Last years models are just as good and because they are likely to be cheaper they will fit better within my budget and I want to build the best possible computer that I can within the limits that I have to stick to.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Ok, I have all of this great advice printing. They are going to either think that I'm shrewd for having done some homework on this or some crazy cat lady when they see all of the pages of advice you guys have given me.

Oh, and by the way, if I suddenly go missing, it's because my computer died and I can't get it turned back on again and haven't yet got the new one.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I strongly recommend you go with a Core 2 processor, even a Core 2 Solo. The big difference is a much improved instruction set - my previous machine was a Pentium 4 dual core 3.8 gigahertz, and my current machine is a Core 2 Extreme quad core 2.66 gigahertz, and even for single-threaded tasks (things that only run on one core) it is noticeably much faster.

I urge you to be more specific about the graphics card. If you give them that much leeway you're going to end up with a low end card that won't cost a whole lot less money, but will perform significantly slower in the viewport. No comment on ATI but if you choose Nvidia, try to stick with 7800 or 7950 based cards.

The prices on all the desktops on your link seem quite high and specs are quite low. I can't recommend any of those as a starting point.

Can I ask for what reason you want your hard disk split up into three partitions? There used to be technical reasons why that was useful but now it really doesn't help, unless it's just to help you keep your stuff organized. You can run into trouble if you fill up a disk partition and then you're kind of stuck, because resizing partitions with a lot of data on them can be pretty difficult. You might want to just consider one large partition with your data stored in subdirectories.

Currently looking at some prices on shopbot.ca for all-Canada vendors, I can offer a similar list of parts to what I posted earlier in a little bit.

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Prices for electronics in Canada are considerably higher than they are in the USA.

Four years ago a friend of mine in Detroit bought a large screen TV. I think he paid $1,999.00 or $2,999.00 for it if I recall right. Rediculously cheaper than what I've ever seen them sold for here. I priced that same TV here at almost $6,000.00 the day after he told me he bought one. He was flabbergasted to see the price difference.

I wasn't kidding when I said that whatever the price is in the USA, it's double up here.

I don't know why I want my hard drive split into 3 portions. I just thought that's what you do when you partition it, lol

All I know is that I've been told that you should partition a large hard drive so that if you have to reformat you are only reformating part and not a whole 250 gig one. This way I can put my poser runtimes on one part of the hard drive and if my computer requires a reformat I don't have to worry about losing everything because I can move stuff to a partitioned area of the hard drive that won't be affected by the reformat.

Is there a better way to do it than what I posted?

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

It's not as bad as you think, as far as I'm seeing. UNFORTUNATELY the damn browser just ate my post. but grand total for similar parts from www.directcanada.com was about $1225 CDN for very nearly the exact same parts. I'll put it together again :(

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The RAM from the old machine cannot be reused. DDR and DDR2 are NOT compatible with SDRAM.

I'd advise to scrap XP Home and get XP Pro 64 bit. Only slightly more expensive, but far better prepared for the future, and less vulnerable to viruses and other crap.

IF you're going to use XP Pro 64 bit, DON"T buy ATI. The few 64 bit drivers for ATI are crappy betas. nVidia has good solid 64 bit drivers.

A midtower case has 4 5.25" slots, which means you can put in up to 4 5.25" units (CD/DVD drivers). Full tower cases often have 5 or more 5.25" slots.

CD and DVD drives/burners have IDE connectors. Most newer mainboards only have one IDE slot, allowing up to two IDE drives. Some still have two connectors, allowing up to 4 IDE drives.
The requirement for more than two optical drives severely limits your choice in mainboards!

Older stuff is not necessarily cheaper. For example, I was scrounging around for an Athlon64x2 4400 CPU Socket 939, they're being phased out in favor of the Socket Am2 version. The cheapest one I found was only 5% less expensive than the one I bought when they were just released on the market.

So I'd still recommend going for current mainstream stuff. The Intel E6300 CPU sells for less than $200, any older CPU that is as cheap as the E6300 doesn't have half the performance!

The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter

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Thanks svdl. You made some good points about older models. If it's only going to save me $15.00 or something on a part, then I'd rather have something more current.

If my computer would hold out for 3 or 4 more weeks, I'd be able to increase my budget a bit more but I don't think it will last. Of course I could sit on this a bit longer and see how long this computer does last before it gasps it's last breath and then go and get a new computer. However, I just can't imagine life without a computer anymore, LOL I'm so dependent on it for so many things like banking, emailing, faxing, and pestering you guys, hehe

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=12200BD2787&vpn=BX80557E6600&manufacture=INTEL
$369 Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz dual core processor

Forgot to recommend a CPU cooler the first time, the one that comes with the box version is generally sneered at and makes rather a lot of noise. I own this one:
http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=15210AC4527
$55 Zalman CNPS9500, very cool, Very Quiet (and the CPU fan tends to be the biggest single source of noise in most PCs)

http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=10530BD5826&vpn=P5LD2-VM&manufacture=ASUS
$126 ASUS P5LD2-VM motherboard

http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=11180BD6142&vpn=VS1GBKIT667D2&manufacture=CORSAIR
$133 2x512MB (1GB) RAM 240-pin, although you might cough up a little more for 2GB:
http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=11180BD5443&vpn=VS2GBKIT667D2&manufacture=CORSAIR
$260 2x1GB (2GB) RAM 240-pin

http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=11610BD3267&vpn=256-P2-N624-AR&manufacture=EVGA
$212 EVGA Nvidia GeForce 7900 GS KO, a very nice video card (this is higher quality preview and much smoother pan/scroll in preview window)

http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=14120DR9199&vpn=ST3200820AS&manufacture=SEAGATE
$89 Seagate Barracuda 200GB 7200RPM Serial ATA 2 hard disk (the good kind)

http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=10720AC5131
$123 BFG Tech 650 watt power supply

http://www.directcanada.com/category/?minorcatid=1517
Some case for about $60

http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=14330DR4316
$38 Sony DVD+RW (reads, writes CDs and DVDs)

http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=00110DR4377
$7 3.5" floppy drive

Grand total:
$1212 for 1GB
$1339 for 2GB

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Notice that everything comes from one vendor, which is less cost efficient but more convenient. If you really shopped it around you could probably save about a hundred bucks CDN, but would have to deal with different vendors (up to you).

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Thank you so much for doing that!

I will take that with me too and see what they say about my bringing them parts to actually build a computer from and how much they would charge me to do it. Maybe if my nephew has time he could do it but he's been busy with school and helping his mom with things so I hate to dump on him.

I suspect I'm going to make their hall of fame wall for most annoying customer, LOL

I'm going to go and get them to give me a price quote for a few different systems and then bring them back here. before making a final decision. I want to be sure that I'm getting something good and not substandard and I don't trust myself enough to do this on my own because I'm rather dim with this stuff. If the prices come out too high then those links look like a really viable alternative.

If I borrowed a book from the library I could probably put it all together myself, but I'm so insecure when it comes to dealing with computer stuff. It just looks and sounds so daunting. I have replaced a picture tube in a very old B&W Zenith television. I can even take apart a vacuum and the motor and replace the bearings and put it all back together and have it run! But put a computer in front of me and I freak at the thought of opening the computer case.

Thank you all so much for helping me with this task! You're all so wonderful!!

BIG HUGS

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

In the US, typically someone will charge you about $100 for assembly, although if you have a friend who is hardware aware you can get away with pizza and beer as payment.

Any quotes you get, make them give you as much detail as they can possibly give you.

My Freebies

Thanks :) I most certainly will. I've learned quite a bit from this thread and I have a major headache going on now from soaking up all of this knowledge, hehe

I saw on that Powerland Computer site that they used to offer computer classes to show new computer owners how to maneuver around their computers and do basic things. It gave me an idea of perhaps talking to them and seeing if they were open to perhaps contracting me to teach the basics of the software. They could provide the referrals and get a finders fee. Or maybe work it towards the purchase of the computer. I think I'll mention it to them. Worse that will happen is that they say no. I think I'll also try bartering some graphics (IE: Flyers, business cards, greeting cards etc for their services.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Unfortunately computers are a lot like cars, everyone has their own individual preferences, likes and dislikes and as such everyone will have different recommendations.

Yes, it is true you can generally save a small amount of money shopping online and assembling the pieces yourself, however in the long run this savings can be easily offset by something as simple as memory incompatiblity or a hardware failure of some sort.

It's true that you can still get these parts replaced under the 1 year manufacturers warranty, however if you buy the parts seperately that means you have to pull the part out, ship it to the online retailer or wholesaler you bought it from, have them ship you a replacement and then install it yourself. Also when purchased seperately processors are not warranted against heat damage or poor installation, so if the company your dealing with says the damage was caused by overheating your in a world of hurt, they won't replace the processor for you.

For the more technically oriented the small savings you get for shopping online might make that attractive, however for the average user it is generally a lot easier and a lot less expensive in the long run to have a store front that you can simply drive too, drop the system off and have them deal with all of that should any problems arise.

It is true that if you price the components individually you will be able to get much better deals online than you can at a storefront, however if you buy a pre-built bundled system the prices are going to be hard to beat, particularly if you have to pay someone else to assemble the hardware. Best Buy can generally sell systems cheaper than most other shops can assemble them because of their vast purchasing power, they get much better prices on systems than most other retailers/wholesalers.

As for Emachines or HP's, I've worked extensively with both, as well as Dell's and of course just about every type of clone archeticture known to man, I've been in the IT industry for over 20 years now. In truth I've found very little difference in the systems themselves other than upgradeability, and considering your budget, the type of system you're looking for I still say your best bet will most likely be to buy a machine bundle rather than individual components, merely from the warranty and return aspect. I've installed literally thousands of Emachines over the last several years, I have yet to have a major problem with any of them. Truth be told their track record in this regard is slightly better than HP or Dell, though HP machines are a bit "prettier" to look at.

Just my two cents worth, naturally opinions will vary but that is my recommendation.

A couple of comments:
I've had a local shop build several computers for me. Two of them were fine. One seems prone to hardware problems since the get-go.

You can often get really good deals from HP and Dell, they typically offer either free or at a minimal cost two of the following: disk upgrade, DVD drive, printer, monitor etc.

Well, shoot me now!!! I seriously need my head examined! I ordered a new computer.... from Dell!!!!!!!!!! :scared:

I got lots of tips of great tips here about what to look for in a new computer.

I called 2 local computer companies and found out that it's almost as much to build one locally as it is to buy one from Dell, and with a local computer build I only got a 1 year parts and labour warranty and no telephone tech support, and I don't know anything about computers in order to wing it on my own if something goes wrong.

I also considered ordering the parts and having someone put it together. bobbystahr lives in the same city as I do and he offered to arrange for one of his friends to put it together for me. I gave that some thought and with that I would only have a parts warranty, and if something went wrong I would have to find someone to fix things for me and pay the additional costs for that. So I decided to bite the bullet and call Dell (because of their warranty and telephone tech support) and see what their price was for what I wanted.

I was wishy washy with Dell and the guy asked me why I was hesitating and wanting to take some time to think about it. I wanted so much to tell them that their laptops are crap, but instead I told him that I was concerned about the price (which was also true) and that I am on a tight budget and need to get the most value for my dollar and I'm not sure that Dell is giving me that in the price I was quoted and wanted to call around to some other companies to get some price comparisons. I had already done that!!! Dell was my last choice, not my first when it came to pricing out a computer.

Sales must be down because he put me on hold and came back with a lower price. I was still wishy washy (because I really wasn't gung ho about dealing with Dell again.. That whole bite me once type thingy) but I saw that they would lower their price, so I worked at that! I got a complete dual core system including a 24 inch monitor and a Kodak digital camera and power surge bar and 4 year extended warranty for $2861.00 including taxes and delivery. Let's just hope the darn thing lasts beyond 5 months after the warranty expires.

Meet my new computer scheduled to arrive in 7 to 10 business days. :woot:

Dimension 9200 Desktop

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor E6700 (2.66GHz, 1066 FSB)

Windows XP Pro 64 Bit

24 inch UltraSharp™ 2407FPW Widescreen Digital Flat Panel

2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 4DIMMs

250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™

Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/ dbl layer write capable

1GB NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GX2 Dual-GPU Graphics Card

Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ XtremeMusic (D), w/Dolby® Digital 5.1

3.5 in Floppy Drive

Dell USB Enhanced Multimedia Keyboard

500 Watts Output

Kodak Easyshare C533 5MP Digital Camera

APC 500VA UPS with Phone Protection

Comes with 10 USB ports

4 year extended warranty

So because I also ordered a camera I can take a picture of my shiney new computer when it arrives and is set up.

Thanks everyone for stearing me in the right direction about what components to get. Now if this one up and dies at least I know there is something on it's way.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

:lol: somebody broke her piggy bank :tt2:

That's a lot of machine and I'm sure you'll have a good time with it. Good luck!

My Freebies

I do have another question.

I will need to transfer the data from my current computer to the new one.

I do have a router, but I can't remember the password and stuff, and the OS on each computer is different (current desktop has Windows 2000) so setting up a network isn't straight forward because I tried to do it between my desktop and laptop and couldn't manage to get it figured out.

Anyway, I think you can do it by direct transfer using some kind of cable. What kind of cable do I need to get in order to do that?

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

The router can be reset pretty easily, that's not going to be a very big deal. It'll be easier to get your files transferred that way than with a cable. I've got to get into work and then if you like I can give you some info on how to clear your router and reset your network settings (going to need you to mail me some screenshots of how it's set now). I'll get back to you in a couple of hours if you'd like some help with that.

My Freebies

That will be great! Thanks! I won't need to turn off my computer will I? Because I don't think I'll be able to get it turned back on again judging by yesterday's episode.

I do recall hearing that I have to do a hard reset of the router, but while I wrote down the instructions I don't know where I put them. Also, it will wipe out my internet settings for my connection and I don't know how to set all that up again. My nephew set up my router for me.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Shouldn't need to turn it off or even reboot, that will happen to the router. Don't worry, it's not as hard as you think it is and it's easier to get it back to a working state if you took screenshots and printed them (which we'll do). Get back to you in a little bit.

My Freebies

Quote - I do have another question.

I will need to transfer the data from my current computer to the new one.

I do have a router, but I can't remember the password and stuff, and the OS on each computer is different (current desktop has Windows 2000) so setting up a network isn't straight forward because I tried to do it between my desktop and laptop and couldn't manage to get it figured out.

Anyway, I think you can do it by direct transfer using some kind of cable. What kind of cable do I need to get in order to do that?

You can use a cross-over ethernet cable. Any local computer shop should have them.

On most models of router you'll find the reset button on the back, it will be small button that is recessed into the the back of the router, so that you'll need to use a pen or very small screwdriver (I normally use a jewelers screwdriver myself) to push it in. On most models of router if you push it in and hold in for anywhere from 10-30 seconds the router will reset.

Some routers have a default login/password (you can usually find these on the manufacturers website) many of the newer ones have a default login (usually admin or administrator) with no password set until you set it.

Most likely your internet connection uses DHCP - meaning that the router will set itself up and you won't have to enter any IP addresses, however it is possible your internet connection actually uses hardwired IP addresses, though this is becoming less and less common these days.

In that event your IP provider should be able to walk you through setting the router up properly over the phone.

Once you get your router reset then it's just a matter of waiting till the new dell arrives, once it does plug it into the router and you'll be able to easily transfer files back and forth between the two machines.

All you'll need to do is setup Windows file sharing and then copy the files over, I can give you step by step instructions on how this is done if you can't find adequate instructions on the internet.

Since you have a router already you might wish to consider keeping your older computer plugged into the router and using a KVM switch - that's what I do here. I have an older system that runs many of my more routine maintence tasks and acts as a file server for my network.

It keeps the load on my main system to a minimum and allows me to get a great deal more done, particularly when I'm working with bigger renders or animations. I can setup an animation or large render on my primary system, switch the KVM so that my keyboard, mouse and monitor connect to the secondary machine, and surf the web, do email, etc while waiting for the render to finish without bogging down the primary system.

Works like a charm.

Thanks for the information Stepdad.

My current computer is giving me huge issues and I'm afraid to turn it off or have it shut down because of over heating because I never know if I'll be able to get it to turn on again. The other day it took 3 hours and 20 minutes of on - off - on - off - on - off using the back switch and the front power on button in order to get it to turn on and boot up after it over heated. Once it's on it runs fine that is unless it over heats and shuts down. And I can even restart it without a problem. The problem is getting it on from an OFF state. It's a huge PITA.

Once I get the new computer I'm going to transfer the files from the old to the new and then use the old one as a learning machine in order to understand how to take a computer apart and put it together. If in the process I can manage to fix it myself, that's a bonus! But at least it will give me some confidence to learn how the insides of a computer go together without having to worry that I'm destroying my one and only computer. If I destroy the old one in the process I don't really care, hehe

I was going to give the old one to my nephew but I've decided to learn from it instead. If I don't I'll never know how to do anything with a computer.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I strongly advise you to get your full backup done before you touch any plugs or configuration settings (that includes changing network configs).

My Freebies

Laplink? (Just kidding. Laplink was a special software/cabling system that did that for DOS systems in the 80's)

Null modem cables are about the same vintage, but it might be hard scaring up one.

What you may consider- you have a router, so that sounds like you have a network. Map one machine to the other, then copy from one to the other (the Operating system will treat the other computer as a network drive [Say J: instead of C:]. Programs will need to be reinstalled, but the thing you can't redo is the data, so get that first.

Failing that, if you have a USB HD, you could just plug it into the new PC, and copy down from there. It's probably a good idea to 'dismount' (use the little disconnect icon) when moving the HD from 1 to the other. Even memory sticks would be the same thing, depending on how much you have.

If you have a techie handy, they might be able to even take your old hard drive and mount it in the new system, but that would require setting some settings here and there, and probably would be a last resort, unless you're comfortable with that.

And you can always burn stuff to CD or DVD, and read it back. More than 1 way to skin a cat..;) no 'fense..;)

one last thing- you might just blow the dust out of the old machine, and get a little more life out of it, until you get things transferred over.

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

I just happened to see this thread, and I'd thought I throw in what I'm going to have in my new computer:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Dual Core CPU (a mouthfull, what!)
Asus P5B Deluxe motherboard
Shapphire X1950XT 256 Mb Graphics card
Seasonic S12 600W power supply
2 GB DDR-2 800 (PC2-6400) matched Cosair Memory DIMMs (2 x 1GB)
Quanity 4 Seagate 7200.10 160 GB SATA drives (they will be run as RAID 10, 320 GB actual size)
NEC AD-7170A DVD Writer
Coolermaster Centurian 5 case.

Total cost is just about $1,500, incidently, I'm carring over my 2 -21" Philips monitors (the card can drive dual monitors)

Some comments- see www.tomshardware.com for thoughts about Intel vs. AMD processors. The Raid 10 is interleaved AND redundant, if one drive fails the pair fails, but all the data will still run from the other pair. The motherboard supports it. No more backups! This will be my first floppyless computer, and it will run through a KVM switch alongside my current Pentium 4- 3.2 GHZ computer, the one before that (an AMD 1.2 ) gets retired.

This is a fairly high-end system, incidently. ;-) The parts are just starting to show up, it isn't running yet.

Hi Acadia,

Nice system! But I do have one reservation. The RAM comes in 4 DIMMS of 512 Mbytes each, which means that upgrading your memory means replacing 2 (or all 4) memory sticks. Which is a shame. They SHOULD have put in 2 sticks of 1 GB each, which would allow you to upgrade your machine to 4 GB RAM or more (highly recommended when you are REALLY going to use 64 bit programs!) without ditching the existing RAM.

Maybe it's not too late to alter the order. 2 modules of 1 GB each, instead of 4 modules of 512 MB each. You might have to pay a little more, in the order of $10-$20, but you'll save at least $100 when (not if) you decide to upgrade your memory.

The monitor is SWEET! I have a Dell Ultrasharp 24" on my main render box, and it's a dream to work with. Very sharp and solid image, a dream when you're watching DVD movies, and very good for graphics work. The response time is somewhat slow for games, but if you don't play the hottest fastest newest 3D games, you won't notice.

All in all, a very nice machine.

The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter

My gallery My freestuff

I may have copied the Memory information from the website wrong. I made sure that I asked about the memory. I was very specific that I wanted to be able to upgrade to 4 GIGS of RAM without having to replace the existing 2 GIGS that I'm getting. I asked that a few times actually, LOL I was assured that I'm getting two (2) 1 GIG sticks and 2 slots will be empty so I can add 2 more sticks of 1 GIG if I want to.

I'm having a bit of a panic about the monitor. My TV is 27" and it looks huge! I'm not sure that the 24" monitor will fit on my computer desk because of the overhead shelf. Thought it is flat panel so it won't have all that bulk behind it like the monitor that I have now. I think I will have to find a new place for my printer though, or turn it sideways. Also I have been on a 17 inch monitor for so long that a 24 inch one is going to seem like IMAX to me, lol

I did call last night to ask them to upgrade my hard drive to 320 GIGS instead of the 250 GIG one. I figured better to do it now than later and it was only $30.00 extra.

Bad news about the graphic card though. I was getting the 1GB NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GX2 Dual-GPU Graphics Card but apparently due to compatiblity issues it's been discontinued. So I'm getting the nVidia 7900 GS graphics card that svdl recommended on page 2.

It's a nice machine thanks to all of the help and advice I got here :) Thank you so much! I'm so excited, even if it is a Dell, lol He said i should have the computer by Friday next week, or Monday. It would have been Friday for sure except because I changed my mind about the hard drive it will delay it by one business day, but that's ok, so long as it arrives.

The first thing I'm going to do is dig out the camera and take a picture of it, lol

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

i still think the "easy bake oven" was an overlooked, but viable choice.

Comitted to excellence through art.

interesting

I just got a Dell.
AMD x2 64 Dualcore 5600+
4GB Ram
320 GB HD
DVDRom + DVD Rewriter
USB Multimedia Keyboard
13in1 card reader
ATI XP1300 Pro GFX
Soundblaster Xfi XtremeMusic
Windows XP Pro

Cost a shade under $2000.
added on 3 17" Samsung Synchmaster 731B LCD's from Staples.... (they costed out better than Dell, even with a 3 year extended warrenty)

My Dell Ultrasharp 24" measures 46 cm in height, measured from the foot to the very top (about 19 inch). So if the shelf is more than 19" above your desk, it should work.

The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter

My gallery My freestuff

Remember that the 24 inch measurement is Diagonal. For instance, a standard aspect ratio 19 inch flatpanel is the same as a 21 inch CRT in terms of screen space.

My current system has an ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 socket 939 motherboard, and an Athlon 64 3500+ single core. This is running XP Pro retail 32 bit. I am upgrading it to an ECS AM2 motherboard (ordered and shipped), so I can go to dual core (I shudder at the thought of flashing the BIOS).

However, my dream (and drool over) system will be a Dual Dual Core Opteron, with a pair of 265s and 8GB DDR400 ECC Registered. It is listed as a Server board, though it is more like a very high end Workstation board. Poser 7 does support Dual Processors and Dual Core.

Due to my income and budget, this will be a longterm parts acquisition process. Fortunately, I already have a case that supports EATX form factor (Lian Li full tower server case).

Acadia, I hope your new system works out for you.

Quote - i still think the "easy bake oven" was an overlooked, but viable choice.

haha! I used to have one of those when I was about 4 or 5 years old. I remember that it came with some little packages of cake mix. The little packages of cake mix were expensive and once I ran out of them my Mom couldn't afford to buy me more, so I remember her spending days in the kitchen working out a recipe of ingredients that I could use to bake cakes in my "Easy Bake Oven."

I think I have a picture or two of me stirring up a batch of cake batter actually. LOL

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I just checked with Purolator and my computer arrived in Calgary at 2pm this afternoon and left shortly after that and is enroute to Winnipeg! Wheee!!!

And just in time too. My computer has been freezing up solid for no apparent reason and I have to press "reset" to get it to reboot each time it does it, which has been about every 20 or 30 minutes yesterday, not so much today.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I just built an E4300 system and OC'd to 3240 mhz. Below are some cinebench scores from the e4300, 4800x2 and opteron 170. The big downer is that the 4300 was the cheapest chip and is the most powerful. I would suggest BIY and overclocking. -G

Personally, I think overclocking is nuts. Then again, I can't afford to willy nilly replace CPUs, due to an error on my part.

With my income and budget, it will take me 2.5 to 3 years to acquire all the parts for a dual dualcore Opteron workstation.

I am currently in the parts acquisition process of building an AM2 dualcore, which will be running XP Pro 32 bit Retail, and I won't assemble it, until I have all of the parts.

I will take performance as is on both.

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Help Me Build a New Computer