On the front page there is an article entitled "daVinci Thursday". Does not the 2nd image of that article, the one of the full frontal drawing of a male contravene your own TOS?

jeez, it would be a bummer if they hadda censor lenny's classic drawing. maybe there's an exception for artists of note :lol:

I'm sure the admins will spot their mistake and quickly take it down :rolleyes:

There has to be a number of works out there that have to be considered among the great masterpieces in the history of art, that would be banned completely from this site.

Then of course you have certain brain-dead prudes who think that any depiction of the unclothed human form whatsoever is pornography (and should be banned).

Yes it seems to have gone now. I'm amazed. Renderosity will become famous as the art site that censored Leonardo da Vinci .

Im not seeing this in the article? Besides, the new policy is for gallery thumbs no?

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Attached Link: http://library.thinkquest.org/13681/data/davin2.shtml

jumpstartme the offending mage has now been removed. :) Here is a link to a US education site for children. OK for American children but not for Renderosity members. I'm still amazed and bewildered by the policy here. Maybe because the image was small it qualifies as a thumbnail?

Muahahaha !!!! Amazing !!

Michelangelo's David would be SO inappropriate.

Eternal Hobbyist

*Quote Jumpstartme2
"Im not seeing this in the article? Besides, the new policy is for gallery thumbs no?"

***Wow, Talk about double standards!!!

**

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

Ok fixer, its late..maybe I missed something, Im not sure what 'double standards' you're speaking of?

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Da Vinvi had no problems with the Inquistion, he had the luck to have been born five centuries ago!

Stupidity also evolves!

So 'Man of Vitruvio' is censored? DaVinci is censored by the same site which creates a "daVinci Thursday"??

O tempora, o mores ... (Marcus Tullius Cicero)

CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"

Quote - Yes it seems to have gone now. I'm amazed. Renderosity will become famous as the art site that censored Leonardo da Vinci .

This is sad beyond words...truely. Is this an art site? Even my local Catholic church doesn't ban works like this.

@ jumpstartme2: Really! You can't, well that says it all doesn't it!!!

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

Well, some months ago Renderosity did a contest for a new logo. Perhaps is time to open a new one: 'define what is our community'. I think with the new policies which can ban daVinci because is against them, 'Art Community' looks like a little bit obsolete

'2D & 3D community' sounds better and more appropiate nowadays :)

CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"

Ah! so it has gone now, so the "double standard" has also gone with it, there's nothing like consistency is there??

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

Uhhh...Fixer...the image that was being discussed was gone by the time I got here....apparently by 11:11 pm......sooo...If I didn't see it, and you didn't see it...

Pfffftt...never mind, its too early in the morning to deal with something I never saw or have control over...Im sure the admins will address this in the AM.

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Well, those "famous artists days" were a farce from the get go anyway... an "Ed wood day" would be more appropriate for Renderosity.

You know what is right for you. I know what is right for me.

"Renderosity, where art runs free."

Except Leonardo da Vinci's of course!

This place is dying a slow death anyway, being ruined by an ever restrictive TOS!
For those that say, well if you don't like it here, go somewhere else....well, I do...at least I can post any of my artwork on my own website. I would love to support vendors here with my hard earned cash, but why should I line the pockets of a company that has a policy of restricting artistic creativity?

Website: The 3D Scene - Returning Soon!

Twitter: Follow @the3dscene

YouTube Channel

--------------- A life?! Cool!! Where do I download one of those?---------------

Be very careful about making jokes here people.

www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php

Hi everybody,

Just goes to show you that anybody can make a mistake.

Our apologies, we had the article ready prior to the thumbnail change and didn't catch it when it was launched. The article has been updated. Thanks for letting us know.

Best regards,
Lillian

Lillian Hawkins
Marketing Manager
By serving each other, we are free.

Quoted from the article - "He is widely considered to be one of the greatest painters of all time. His genius was not fully realized until his inventions proved feasible long after his death. Leonardo is among most intelligent and capable men to ever have graced the planet."

Hmmmm, censored by the Catholic Church and now by Renderosity...how ironic!...and I thought the world had moved on!

Website: The 3D Scene - Returning Soon!

Twitter: Follow @the3dscene

YouTube Channel

--------------- A life?! Cool!! Where do I download one of those?---------------

"Our apologies, we had the article ready prior to the thumbnail change and didn't catch it when it was launched. The article has been updated. Thanks for letting us know."
So you are now saying under the new Renderosity rules the art of da Vinci will be censored?
This is a joke Yes?

Don't hold your breath.

You know what pains me more than anything...great work from great artists, such as the one I have linked to here, suffer. Now I find it difficult to figure out how Renderosity can call itself an artist community when it puts artwork such as this at such a disadvantage.

www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php

Website: The 3D Scene - Returning Soon!

Twitter: Follow @the3dscene

YouTube Channel

--------------- A life?! Cool!! Where do I download one of those?---------------

This incident is so silly, it's hilarious, but then, the whole "tribute" thing has been yet another lame commercial promo and an insult to the Western art canon and art-loving Renderosity members all along. So crass, so completely irrelevant to actually paying tribute to great artists or educating the public about them. By all means, remove Vitrivian Man because it violates TOS. So very lame.

Well said xoconostle!

How they can ever pay tribute to great artists and then censor their work in the same breath is hypocrisy of the worse kind - Artists are good enough to market from, but it seems not good enough to fully appreciate.
Hmmm, it does say "Art Community" up on the top there doesn't it?
EDIT: Actually looking at Leonardo daVinci's portrait on the front page - he himself would probably turn in his grave if he knew he was being censored by the very same people that are "promoting" him for their very own marketing purposes. daVinci, was censored during his lifetime, and Renderosity's actions are disrespectful of his memory and those of the other great artists they have "showcased".

Website: The 3D Scene - Returning Soon!

Twitter: Follow @the3dscene

YouTube Channel

--------------- A life?! Cool!! Where do I download one of those?---------------

Quote - > Quote - Yes it seems to have gone now. I'm amazed. Renderosity will become famous as the art site that censored Leonardo da Vinci .

This is sad beyond words...truely. Is this an art site? Even my local Catholic church doesn't ban works like this.

Is this an art site? In a word......NO. This is an online store selling mesh and textures. Period.
Banning Davinci? Figures!

Censoring DaVinci - that's just so appallingly pathetic for a site touting itself as an artist community.

It's along the lines of the teacher who lost her job for taking kids on a field trip to a museum because parents found out they saw nude statues. (it seems that although they have to sign permission slips none of the parents in question has ever actually visited a museum).

But at least this has more strongly encouraged me to insure that we have a full week this summer for the Smithsonian.

Also ridiculous since there are, as I posted in the thumbnail changes article, several US states that allow topless women with others trying to follow (well ok so Texas allows a woman to be topless only if she is white thanks to GWBush - but it's still topless)

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Sorry!! Did I read that right??

Only "White" women can go topless in Texas!!!

That is amazing!! [If I read it right]!!

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

yes, GWBush instituted that in 1999 the reasoning is that topless non-white women could lead to racism or rape. Same apples to breastfeeding in public

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Oh and full nudity is allowed in Maine since it's only illegal to show one's genitalia in public and by the definition of genitalia a woman's are all internal - hence it has been argued - successfully, that a woman can jog nude.

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Wow! That is freaking amazing!
I don't want to hijack this thread but I can't get over that, this is the same guy that attacks Sharia law as against Womens rights and he does something like this which is also so discriminatory it makes me wonder what's going on over there across the pond!!
Amazing!!

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

no, that "white/nonwhite" thing can't be true. it would violate the american bill of rights AFAIK.

look into it yourself, it stands only because it hasn't been challenged (as far as I know it is still effectively on the books) and there is no outline that specifically states a white woman CAN be topless although the reasoning has been stated to be for the prevention on racism and rape (because "supposedly" those things don't affect a white woman). But then again laws do not tell you what you are allowed to do, only what you can not do.

But then again Texas has many laws that violate the american bill of rights

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

How do they define "white" in Texas then, for purposes of Jim Crow boobism? Maybe with a photographer's light-meter?

Well I've just googled on it and pulled up absolutely nothing besides one page without cites which basically gives the same info you've just said, LSM.

I'm not finding anything on any news sites or on the ACLU site.

Where did you hear about this?

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

Im in Texas and have never heard this...and I've been here all my life.

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

I read it in a few articles some time back (about the time he ran for President the 1st time) and in a listing regarding racism, laws and his stint in Texas during his governorship, it wasn't big news just one of those little known things like his previous partnership with bin laden's brother or laws that get passed because no one notices the fine print.

I haven't googled it to find it online to be honest, I don't always expect to find things online, especially laws without knowing the actual proposal or cite number. I remember it was supposed to have either gone into effect or been written in 1999 because that was the year we moved from the west to the east, I remember it also supposedly applied to breastfeeding because I'm an advocate to allow women to breast feed without shame (which is also why other states are trying to allow topless women, as a way to allow breastfeeding), and I remember the reason was supposedly to prevent racism and rape because it was stupid.

I collect worthless information in my brain lol

Perhaps I'll do a search, it may be found on pro-nudity sites, or anti-bush or anti racism sites. I'll post it in an OT thread here in the community forum so it doesn't continue to de-rail the sad action of censoring DaVinci, may take a few days to wade through all the little amendments, if one can find them in one place that isn't eye crossing

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Attached Link: http://www.lilithgallery.com/feminist/toplessness002.html

**Try this one for a start. At least it backs up what LSM is saying.**

Actually I'll credit Karen that link is the only one I'm finding with google, but I've only run one search and when it comes to statutes the wording is important, but you can find little known things (like Bush sold his dallas texas house with an illegal racial covenant that prevented it from being sold to blacks and it didn't make big news either).

I'll have more time to look this weekend (heck I can't even find the love poem Pepe LePeuw wrote to the cat...)

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Sounds like the Spanish Inqusition to me.

That's the link I found, Unicornst, with absolutely no solid information or cites.

I did find this link:
http://michaelbluejay.com/nudity/
Which is about how it's legal to be topless in Austin, Texas. Nothing about what shape or colour you have to be...

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

I can see why they did it. Removed the DaVinci, that is. Not that I agree with it, but I can see why.
It is sort of related to the new thumnail images, true....but it's not that the "prudes" complain about such things. Because, usually, in all honesty, it's not the "prudes" who complain when stuff like this goes down.

It's those who are pissed at the new policy, who will bitch and complain until everything is "fair". Well, DDevant, ya got your wish! Renderosity is "fair and balanced", and the DaVinci sketch was removed! Bravo!!! Way to stick it to the man! I mean, because, if we can't have horribly-lit, zeppelin-breasted, plasticky skinned thumbnails in the galleries, we HAVE to complain about every posting Rendo makes that might come close to skimming the line, or even crossing it!!!

.....it's crap like this that reminds me why I could never be a humanist. I don't have enough faith in people.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - It states that black, indian, latino and asian women are not allowed to go topless in public.But not white/caucasian women.

**
**Latino is a race???, which color?
If latinos are not arian, black, indian or asian, from where did they came, from Mars perhaps?

Stupidity also evolves!

Quote - I mean, because, if we can't have horribly-lit, zeppelin-breasted, plasticky skinned thumbnails in the galleries, we HAVE to complain about every posting Rendo makes that might come close to skimming the line, or even crossing it!!!

Da Vinci is gone thanks to your own rules, if you want to blame something blame your own TOS.

Stupidity also evolves!

Quote - > Quote - I mean, because, if we can't have horribly-lit, zeppelin-breasted, plasticky skinned thumbnails in the galleries, we HAVE to complain about every posting Rendo makes that might come close to skimming the line, or even crossing it!!!

Da Vinci is gone thanks to your own rules, if you want to blame something blame your own TOS.

2 points.

I'm not on staff here anymore. Even if I was, staff doesn't make the rules, they just enforce them.
The DaVinci image wasn't even a thumbnail! Yes, it was a small image, but a thumbnail, in regards to the TOS, denotes an image that leads to another vial hyperlink! It was a STATIC image!!! The thumbnail leading to the page where it resides is a PORTRAIT of DaVinci!!! So, they've removed the 2nd image...does that mean that, since the thumb on the front page doesn't match the product images that are being advertised, that someone's going to complain about that now? I mean, it's open season!

GAWD, I loathe lack of common sense sometimes.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - > Quote - It states that black, indian, latino and asian women are not allowed to go topless in public.But not white/caucasian women.

**
**Latino is a race???, which color?
If latinos are not arian, black, indian or asian, from where did they came, from Mars perhaps?

rotflmao - I understand the point. I've a friend who says he won't check those boxes, "I'm Mexican - WTF is a latino" is his general response.

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

JenX, I think what people are ranting and raving about concerning this issue is that it highlights just how pathetic Rendo's TOS enforcement has become. If any common sense is required it is from Renderosity/Bondware themselves.

I couldn't care for zeppelin-breasted, huge nippled, horribly lit thumbnails or art...but I do care about art and what it stands for. Art is a freedom of expression.

Now Rendo, may have the right to make rules as they wish (and I respect them for that), but they should remember a couple of things:

It is the members that pay for the upkeep of this place through the market place.
From Renderosity's mission statement: "MISSION STATEMENT
The mission of Renderosity is to create a thriving, productive environment that encourages an atmosphere of community, respect, collaboration, and growth for graphic artists, digital artists, animators, photographers and writers of all backgrounds and levels. We are a community created by artists, for artists ... *Because The Art Matters!"

"Because The Art Matters!" -* if you enforce censorship, then I will argue that art isn't the thing that matters.
"growth for graphic artists" - growth isn't encouraged by censorship!

The TOS doesn't actually bother me, but I will stand for an artists right. Besides, Rendo's TOS is full of double standards - they won't allow copyright infringement (and rightly so), but do allow copyrighted characters from all media's (be it TV, film etc) to be used as avatars.

Website: The 3D Scene - Returning Soon!

Twitter: Follow @the3dscene

YouTube Channel

--------------- A life?! Cool!! Where do I download one of those?---------------

I liked Casette's idea for a new logo.

OMG... I'm crying :lol:

CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"

BTW - Karen if that's the only link you've foundyou aren't digging deep enough.

The limitation wouldn't appear on pro-nudity sites anyhow, they deal with laws in regards to the exposure of genitalia or public "lewdness" laws, a breast is not genitalia. Nor would the limitation probably fall under the lewdness or genitalia laws, which is what pro-nude sites look at, since it was supposedly done to "protect" the individuals and not the public which is where they look.

The article on stupid racist laws and actions during Bush's governorship was iirc written by a woman , doesn't help the online search much though.

As I said I'll look into it more heavily this weekend and post what I find where it doesn't disrupt this topic, but today is Friday and that means Payroll and I have a few contracts to get out, so I don't have the time to search today.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

LOOOOOOOOOL!
Leonardo violated the TOS of this site, so his work has been deleted.
I hardly know what to say... I would like to laugh but then... I feel more like crying. What does all this nudity crap lead to? Shador? O Goddess!

And I'm missing something in this thread... what is it? Ah, now I remember - I desperately miss Captain Jack1, telling us off like schoolchildren that everything the authorities do is right.
LOOOOOOOOOOL again.

Quote - JenX, I think what people are ranting and raving about concerning this issue is that it highlights just how pathetic Rendo's TOS enforcement has become. If any common sense is required it is from Renderosity/Bondware themselves.

I couldn't care for zeppelin-breasted, huge nippled, horribly lit thumbnails or art...but I do care about art and what it stands for. Art is a freedom of expression.

Now Rendo, may have the right to make rules as they wish (and I respect them for that), but they should remember a couple of things:

It is the members that pay for the upkeep of this place through the market place.

From Renderosity's mission statement: "MISSION STATEMENT
The mission of Renderosity is to create a thriving, productive environment that encourages an atmosphere of community, respect, collaboration, and growth for graphic artists, digital artists, animators, photographers and writers of all backgrounds and levels. We are a community created by artists, for artists ... *Because The Art Matters!"

"Because The Art Matters!" -* if you enforce censorship, then I will argue that art isn't the thing that matters.
"growth for graphic artists" - growth isn't encouraged by censorship!

The TOS doesn't actually bother me, but I will stand for an artists right. Besides, Rendo's TOS is full of double standards - they won't allow copyright infringement (and rightly so), but do allow copyrighted characters from all media's (be it TV, film etc) to be used as avatars.

While I doo see your point, I still roll my eyes at the fact that so many want no censorship. EVERY gallery on the planet has their own policies of censorship, whether it's "it doesn't fit our tastes" to "it has too much blue in it". (For real) I can guarantee that there are about 100 or less members out of the thousands of members here who have gotten their artwork into a brick-and-mortar gallery. And I'll bet you that they faced some form of rejection and/or censorship while getting their art there.
The fact is, Renderosity has a pretty lax TOS, in the scheme of things. The nude thumbnail ruling will only serve to better Renderosity, by making it look more professional. I know that I was forced to create my own, non-Rendo, gallery to showcase my portfolio, because I felt that even if I cried out for the ridiculously in-your-face thumbnails to cease, I would either get tarred and feathered, laughed at, or decried as a "censor".
I know I'm not the only one who has created a non-Rendo gallery for portfolio work. I've found, as I shop my work around, arthouses, printshops, publishers, and the like WILL join a "community" if they think your art is good enough. And, if they find that your work is amidst trash (I've actually had that comment given to me...), they find that you find your work is trash, and DON'T ACCEPT YOUR WORK.
This isn't just about censorship. This isn't about not being fair, or being contradictory. This is about people who, from as far back as I can remember, ALWAY fight any version of change. The only thing that Rendo is forcing anyone to do is to be creative. On an art site. What a damn concept. :rolleyes:
As for the avatars...I don't know what to say. Not all of us watch t.v., or the same t.v. programs. shrug The only time I've used an avatar that wasn't me or created by me, I gave credit (as I had gotten it from the "official" site) as was necessary. But, that's me. Staff here reside worldwide. What might be highly recognizeable to you, some of the staff may have never heard of. If you find problems, there are links to the homepages of mods and coords at the top of every moderated forum. Use those links when you have problems. That's what they're there for.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

JenX, I think we are in agreement to a large extent, but what I will just say is art is subjective and who has the right to decided if work is trash or not when regarding art. Personal opinions mean nothing to anybody but ones self, regarding views of art.
What is "creative"? Do Rendo know enough about my creation process or that of anybody elses to be qualified in knowing how to force creativity? I will go back to my original point that censorship is not a means to be creative...renderosity's TOS has no bearing on my creativity.
I would love to know who defined the limits of what is considered nudity and who actually considers nudity as bad.

As far as Avatars. I did indeed mention this to admins when the new design of forum came on-line and the answer I got back was that it would be an issue that is impossible to enforce. Hmmmmm, sounds like an excuse for not being bothered, something like this can be enforced as a day to day ongoing process.

Website: The 3D Scene - Returning Soon!

Twitter: Follow @the3dscene

YouTube Channel

--------------- A life?! Cool!! Where do I download one of those?---------------

True, art is subjective. However, those who decide what is and isn't trash to them are those who buy work. And, usually, buyers don't pick through the garbage to find the pearls.
However, I'm absolutely sure that I could go through the galleries right now, make a "this is utter shit" list, and be a lot more hated than I am now. I could even give reasons why it's not aesthetically pleasing and technically wrong.
Hell, you can't even post actual constructive criticisms on a piece without most members here getting up in arms!!!! If you say something like "Great lighting, wonderful texture work, however her feet aren't on the floor, and she's not posed as if she's floating. Otherwise, great work", and you get RAILED on. Anything more than "ooh, that's gorgeous, VOTE!!!!!!" is regarded as Trolling.

But, well, art is subjective, right? And, we're not here to grow! We're here for kudos, and praise, and telling everyone how mad I am that I didn't make the art charts lat week, dammit, and it's rigged, and everyone else but me is shit, and.....do I need to go on?

Put on your big boy/girl (as necessary or wanted) pants and deal with it. It's called life. If you want cooing and oohing and "oh, you're so clever", print it out and put it on your mom's fridge. All artists grow in one way or another. It's actually gasp a part of being human. We grow. We change. Dare I say, we evolve? To learn is to grow. To refuse learning is to remain stagnant, and stagnant waters become putrid. If the "great" artists of our time can become known for what they do, great. While I'm not a fan of modern fine art, I understand that it is subjective.
Anyway, that was an unnecessary tangent. I need to take my pain meds and go back to bed.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

sorry to side track but someone mentioned breast feeding in public, that always stuns me that stores get away with shooing women off to toilets to feed their babies, i can't understand how they don't get sued for causing "unnessersary suffering to a minor" or feeding in an unhygeinic envioroment, its disgusting that stores do that. it is not like a baby cries " oh would you mind feeding me please... oh you can't ok i wait then!" they cry "feed me NOOOOOOOOWWWW!! DAMMIT....I'M GONNA DIE, IF YOU DON'T FEED ME NOWWWWWWWW!!!!" if they don't provide a comfy and hygenic area for feeding (like the cafe)i think they should be sueable, who the hell wants their child fed in a toilet, whenever i had to change my son in a supermarket i found those changing rooms were pretty rancid, couldn't imagine him feeding in those places.

*"I can see why they did it. Removed the DaVinci, that is. Not that I agree with it, but I can see why.
It is sort of related to the new thumnail images, true....but it's not that the "prudes" complain about such things. Because, usually, in all honesty, it's not the "prudes" who complain when stuff like this goes down.

It's those who are pissed at the new policy, who will bitch and complain until everything is "fair". Well, DDevant, ya got your wish! Renderosity is "fair and balanced", and the DaVinci sketch was removed! Bravo!!! Way to stick it to the man! I mean, because, if we can't have horribly-lit, zeppelin-breasted, plasticky skinned thumbnails in the galleries, we HAVE to complain about every posting Rendo makes that might come close to skimming the line, or even crossing it!!!

.....it's crap like this that reminds me why I could never be a humanist. I don't have enough faith in people."*

I thought it was worth reposting this comment by an ex moderator of Renderosity just so everyone is clear that it is my fault that Leonardo da Vinci’s art has been banned from this site.
The problem with this site, Jen, is that we have to many horribly-lit, zeppelin-breasted, plasticky skinned thumbnails in the galleries. This is mainly due to Poser been the most important ap here. Get rid of Poser and we have a pretty good art site. There are one or two good artists that use Poser but the majority are masturbatory fantasies and this is the problem and this is why we have the situation that exists here right now.

While I agree that that is a huge problem with this site, and many other art sites, but, well, can you imagine the outcry if they implemented a QC setup here? If people had to submit their site for Quality Control before it made it to the gallery here, there would be an absolute mass freakout.
Also, sorry for using you as an example...but, uh, you started this thread. The result? They removed the nude image. Sketch. Whatever. You bitched, they removed it. While it may not be your "fault", per se, you triggered it, in the end.

But, you know what the problem is with the community as a whole? I'm talking the Digital Art Community. Not just Renderosity.
Elitism. Commercialism. Competition.
I remember, when I joined rendo in 2001, it was after viewing Moyra's Web Jewels (which is now down. Moyra, incidentally, is a talented artist, working for DAZ, making wonderfully awesome texture creations, mostly for Platinum Club items.), and seeing a link to Renderosity. I joined. I pined for the talent. I tried the trial version of Bryce 5 (I think it was 5..it may have been 4, but I really do think it was 5), and loved it. Then, I saw human figures. Saw that Poser was used. Tried the Trial version of POser 4 and absolutely hated it. I convinced my brother to help me buy Bryce 5, and I had it within a month of joining here. I sucked at it, but I was learning. Then, I found Terragen, which was free, and I didn't suck as badly at, and was encouraged by others to keep up with...which, of course, I didn't. In all that time, I admit to lurking, trying to learn how to use the programs, trying to find out how to be at least moderately okay at this digital art thing....and seeing so many people helping each other, FOR FREE. Sharing their knowledge. For no monetary exchange.
I didn't really pay attention to community goings on at the time. I didn't feel I was good enough to "mingle with the pros", so I stuck to my little corner of the world. I did, however, chime in with help once in a while when I knew of a fix. It made me feel like I could, one day, be an expert. Anyway, there was a policy change earlyish on in my membership. I don't remember what it was. It may have been when the hardcore erotica was removed from the galleries, and Renderotica was born, but I'm not 100% sure. Like I said, I didn't really pay attention to goings on. Anyway, there was a mass exodus. The forums got quieter. (Those of you who are constantly going on and on about "we're all leaving, and the site is gona die!!" You've never seen anything like it, nor will you. So, you can quit shouting about the 'end of times'.) But, those who were here for Community...they've stayed. They're not as active on the forums much lately. A lot of the questions being asked have been answered over and over. They're still helping people out. Making awesome freebies. Writing wonderful tutorials. Sharing their knowledge. They are why a lot of people come here day after day. They are why I decided to volunteer back in 2005 to become a Coordinator (later becoming a Moderator). I felt that I should give back to the community that gave me so much. I don't have a great talent for modelling. (You know the "Space cow" tutorial for Hexagon that comes with Hex 2? Mine looked more like an art-deco jalapeno-couch. Yeah. I'm awesome. psht) I'm not the best texture artist in the world (but I'm getting slightly better). My lack of concentration makes writing tutorials for people without ADD a bad idea. So, I gave my time. I'm such an idealist. I thought things would go better than they did. At first, they did. And when things exploded from time to time, I'd take a break and walk away. But, like I've said before.....the sense of community is gone. In its' place is the "look at me, look at me" mentality of the galleries, the competition to be the most awesome and have the most comments.
None of that is the staff's fault. When lines are crossed that could potentially make the site liable for any actions....when lines are crossed that turn the site into a trash heap...when lines are crossed and people can't have a grown-up discussion without attacking each other....things like this lead to rule changes. Now, people site-wide are up in arms over this change. The admin have never stated that nudity is banned from posted images. It can no longer be included in thumbnails. I'm sure that, had everyone acted with taste and maybe even some etiquette, this ruling would never have had to be made. But, you know those pesky humans. Silly mortals. Always pushing lines, revolting against authority, making waves. (I'm not saying always be complacent, but, really, does every breath have to create a revolution?)

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

"While I doo see your point, I still roll my eyes at the fact that so many want no censorship. EVERY gallery on the planet has their own policies of censorship, whether it's "it doesn't fit our tastes" to "it has too much blue in it". (For real) I can guarantee that there are about 100 or less members out of the thousands of members here who have gotten their artwork into a brick-and-mortar gallery. And I'll bet you that they faced some form of rejection and/or censorship while getting their art there. "

What's that got to do with censoring Davinci? THE master artist? While every gallery on the planet may have censorship of some sort I'll bet you a years wages that NONE of the galleries on the planet would censor DAVINCI! In fact they would all sell their souls to have a Davinci on their walls for just one day. But not here at Rosity, oh hell no. Davinci's work is far to risque to be posted here. Funny they aren't above trying to capatilize on his name( and other famous artists) with this master a week promotion.If Davincis work isn't good enough to be seen on this site then pull it all and stop using his name to promote the site. Oh and STOP calling this an art site and call it what it is, a store front. If DAVINCI isn't welcome on the virtual gallery wall here then you can't really call this an art site can you? What's next? Pulling Rembrandt?

True, but, as I said earlier...had there been no bitching, I'm willing to bet every drop of blood in my body that it would still be up there. Supid policies come into place when pepole can't use their common sense.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

"..had there been no bitching, I'm willing to bet every drop of blood in my body that it would still be up there."

Actually, the proper response from Rendo to the original post that started this thread should have been, "Don't be so bloody silly," rather than taking the image down. Rendo's incredible reaction to that post, in taking it seriously, is what got the backlash going in the rest of the thread, so it is down to Rendo, I'm afraid.

"On the front page there is an article entitled "daVinci Thursday". Does not the 2nd image of that article, the one of the full frontal drawing of a male contravene your own TOS?"
So you interpret that as bitching. Interesting. I thought I was joking but there you go.
"Actually, the proper response from Rendo to the original post that started this thread should have been, "Don't be so bloody silly," " That is the kind of reaction I was expecting from them.
Interpretation is everything. I was amazed when they pulled it. Still they want uniformity of art and the Market Place so what can you do?
The point I was hoping to make was that some great art involves nudity and there is no reason why this should not be shown as a thumbnail. It is not unprofessional to have nudity in a thumb.da Vincis image is no way unprofessional. As proven by RR's use of the da Vinci picture. I never thought in a million years that a site that professes to be an art site would not allow a da Vinci pic.
So I guess it backfired a little but I'm still gob smacked.

Being great art' won't always pass the test though. I doubt there's afamily'-type website anywhere (at least in the USA) that would show Courbet's L'Origine du Monde in its full glory :)

In fact you'd have a job finding a meaningful bit of that one to make an acceptable thumbnail out of.

Oh, please. If you didn't want it removed, you should have kept your fingers off the damn keyboard. Rendo reacted on the side of caution. As they ALWAYS do. There is NO TONE to posts. Why? Because in the written word, no one can hear your sarcasm. Usually, there are a couple exceptions....like, whoever is reading it knows you, and has their sarcasm detector tuned into your frequency...or, you say "Hey, I'm being sarcastic". What I, and a few others, have read from the first post, whether you meant it to be or not, DDevant, was "Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! Rendo changed a rule, and now they posted a nude on a front page article!!!! I know it's a classic piece of art, but, still, Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!"
Now, DDevant, I don't know your sarcasm style. I've read a whopping 12 of your posts total, ever. I know that, when I'm sarcastic, or trying to be ironic, I tend to try to be blatantly sarcastic or ironic. Why? So people know that I'm either joking or being sarcastic. And, even then, sometimes I have to retroactively cover my ass.
What I'm saying is...your post did not come off as sarcastic. It came off as blatant, in-your-face, whining, and/or just trying to stir up shit. Was that your intention? Maybe, maybe not. If you hadn't wanted the controversy that has ensued, you wouldn't have posted. But, you had to have had some idea that, regardless of Renderosity's following actions, there would have been a shitstorm either way. If they had left the image in the front page article, there would be twice as many decrying the site of censorship, and worse.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

OK I get the message

Say nothing, conform, what a stupid foreigner I am.

Quote - Say nothing, conform, what a stupid foreigner I am.

Of course. You are getting in the way of selling things, which is the whole purpose of this store front. Puritan/Disney, you've gotta love it; it's compulsory.

Puritanism and Art are not compatible, just look in history to what happened to Art in places where Puritans ruled.
You cannot expect to Da Vinci, Michelangelo, Boticelli or centuries old statues be compatible.

Stupidity also evolves!

Quote - True, but, as I said earlier...had there been no bitching, I'm willing to bet every drop of blood in my body that it would still be up there. Supid policies come into place when pepole can't use their common sense.

He was pointing out a certain double standard. If Rendo admin had any sense they would have come to their senses and realized how stupid the new thumbnail policy actually is. Instead, they decided that their idiotic new policy was so sacrosanct that even Leonardo now has to comply with it.

Put I guess puritanical prudery trumping art is the new norm in today's society :cursing:

I think all that is too easy to understand

I joined Rosity in 2002

Rosity was mainly a big art community with a growing store. And Art was The Law

Nowadays Rosity is mainly a Huge Market with an adhered community... of potential buyers. We aren't artists but pockets. Money is The Law. Money doesn't likes naked faeries? No naked faeries. Doesn't likes first page nude promos? No nude promos. Doesn't likes naked thumbnails? No naked thumbnails. Tomorrow the next is full nudity? Well... Money commands, we obey. And Money always requests for more, more, more, more...

Do you like it? Eat it. Don't you like it? Eat it too or go away

CASETTE
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"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"

Is it time for one of these yet? :tongue1:

It's ok as long as you don't do a thumbnail with the words "pussy" or similar on it :)

I love the new thumbnail policy and Leonardo should respect the rules as well. People complain all the time that the rich and/or famous don't have to follow the rules like the rest of us. I appreciate that Renderosity is willing to make appropriate changes to create an atmosphere suitable to be viewed by everyone.

It isn't censorship, folks, it's called courtesy.

Manning

I just wanna know who came up with this whole tribute to the masters thing...
.... speaking of which, I think "da Vinci Thursday" doesn't have any more poetic ring than, say, "van Gogh Tuesday"....

ummm, but, I have to wonder just how many people here really care about da Vinci, Monet, van Gogh... and...whoever might be up for postmortem embarrassment in the future. I mean, considering they don't create Poser Content, 'n all, yanno.

It reeks of pretentiousness, IMO, but I mean that in the nicest way possible.

Quote - True, but, as I said earlier...had there been no bitching, I'm willing to bet every drop of blood in my body that it would still be up there. Supid policies come into place when pepole can't use their common sense.

I agree with that, since the total lack of tolerance for others is what put these policies in place. If they people that had a problem with the thumbnails could have had tolerance and respect for the opinions of others then they would've just set the nudity filter in their profile and eliminated the problem without having to affect everyone else. How is that using common sense or courtesy for that matter to force their opinions on everyone else because they're offended?

If they were so concerned about thumbnails of the featured artist in the newsletter, why didn't they use common sense and just use an alternative like the avatar of the artist instead of insisting it was a factor in getting rid of the thumbnails?

If they wanted to promote artists, why would they be so dishonest in trying to pawn off a sanitized version instead of using common sense to give a true representation of the image? It makes you wonder who they're trying to promote it to and which artists they're trying to promote?

If they used any comon sense or tolerance for others then none of this would be necessary but that seems to be gone the way of the dinosaur. Those that replace them will have only "joy joy feelings for everyone around them" since "The future is a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiener"

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Poser gallery shalt be closed.

Exodus 20:4, Derteronomy 5:8 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath. Deuteronomy 4:16-18 Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the simultude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air, The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth. Deuteronomy 4:23 Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget ... and mke you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the Lord thy God hath forbidden thee. Deuteronomy 27:15 Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman.

Stupidity also evolves!

JenX:

Quote - What I'm saying is...your post did not come off as sarcastic. It came off as blatant, in-your-face, whining, and/or just trying to stir up shit. Was that your intention? Maybe, maybe not. If you hadn't wanted the controversy that has ensued, you wouldn't have posted. But, you had to have had some idea that, regardless of Renderosity's following actions, there would have been a shitstorm either way. If they had left the image in the front page article, there would be twice as many decrying the site of censorship, and worse.

That was really unnecessarily snarky, given that the guy only pointed out the blatantly obvious. When you have a rigid, inflexible policy ... with "exceptions" ... people are going to point that out.

My Freebies

I really have to think this one through...first joined in 2000, moved than in 2002...moved and now once again in 2006 (reasons for multiple joins is that I always had my 'rosity account connected to my work email...whenever I move ...I'm in the military...and get a new computer all the username/password information was lost, this one however is now on a yahoo account that I've established that will be the same no matter where I go in the world. That being said:

I've seen a lot of changes in Rendo over the last six years...I used to come here just to look at the Superhero images, so when the 'rotica left I didn't notice it. Then I actually started using Poser using the default charecters and started reading the forums, I watched the very last volleys of the Erotica and watched Renderotica grow out of that. Curious I looked over and saw Renderotica and learned a lot...came back here and applied those things I saw there with some of the stuff I saw here...I like to think I grew. I remember when the the big names here weren't big names and they used the boobs in a thumb technique and guess what it worked, they can post anything and be guarenteed a jillion views and comments. After my last move in which I didn't relocate until months after, get the house set up and came back here, I established a new username (mainly because I had so many variations of my username and had switched work email accounts three times (re structuring) that I didn't know what my username was or what email account it was established with...
Before I had become accustomed to to recieving about 600 views the first day an image was posted and a few pages of comments, because I was established (I found my old username password combo awhile back, and deleted the gallery), now I'm not, so if an image gets 600 views and a few comments I'm happy, but I tried to post clean thumbs at first, since the last time under my old username that's what I was doing....nothing but crickets, as my thumbs got racier the comments came, it was when the thumbgate crisis that I finally figured out how come the old username could post clean thumbs and get many views and comments and the new one couldn't....I originally thought it was because now I was using Aiko heavily and not V3, it wasn't...it was because before I was posting clean thumbs, I was posting booby thumbs, once folks knew who I was...I didn't need that gimmick, but the gimmick got people in.
So just because you don't need a gimmick anymore don't dismiss it, I'm willing to bet more of the very well known Poser artist here used it back in the day (I won't name names), between the Aiko/Girl controversy and now thumbgate (I can't take credit for that term), Rendo has stopped letting the newbie have a chance to shine.
As a reborn newbie I can see this. Those of you who are mad because boobies got more views than your work...how many comments did you get compared to their's. All rendo has done is alienate the newbies who want to be noticed, they eventually find their way, but Rendo is only interested in creating cliques.
Like I said, I love the site, but I've seen too many of my E-friends leave, or get banned within the last year because of either let's redifine this and that.
In the end, I will comply.

Oh, Jen...when I go through the galleries every now and then I'll leave a "this looks wrong to me" or "hand going through wall" comment, I haven't been tarred and feathered. I just don't leave a rating on those because every now and then someone will IM me and say, hey that part you didn't like well I was going for____________ and I go..."oh, now I get it"

Peace. love and boobies in jogging in Maine!

I think the trouble is Rosity unknows its own policy

A mod says there's no problem in nudity policy criticism while another mod ban a pic or a thumbnail with the same nudity policy criticism

Someone posts a nude pic (or thumbnail, I don't know, I don't saw it) in a daVinci article (so in the name of Rosity, so theorically it's GOOD), other one deletes the pic (so it's bad)

People says mods they don't want staff pics or Monthly Top 20 anymore because it serves no other thing but to create conflict, mods say okay, and some days later they post Staff pics again

Too much erratic. The big trouble isn't nudity policy, daVinci Thursday, etc etc etc. The big trouble is people don't trust in a site with erratic behavior...

Sad :(

Ps. I request a new Content Advisory option: Constructive Criticism

EDITED
@**cruzin

**I love the 'ThumbGate' word ;)

CASETTE
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"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"

Quote -

That was really unnecessarily snarky, given that the guy only pointed out the blatantly obvious. When you have a rigid, inflexible policy ... with "exceptions" ... people are going to point that out.

oddly enough, that sort of proves my point in what I'm saying.....that wasn't be being snarky. I do try to make it blatantly obvious when I am. That was me doing my best to be poigniantly straightforward, and minutely sympathetic. Which is what I mean by tone not being recognizeable in the typed word on message boards. Had I posted that as a .mp3 for all to hear, you'd probably have caught my tone.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote -
People says mods they don't want staff pics or Monthly Top 20 anymore because it serves no other thing but to create conflict, mods say okay, and some days later they post Staff pics again

I don't know about the other forums....but the Staff Picks was one of the most requested things to bring back in the past 6 months, IIRC. In forum postings, IM's, etc. I don't recall hearing any complaints about the Staff Picks, we had stopped doing it during the conversion, since we would set them up in the back room. Now that staff has the ability to stickify a post, it makes it slightly easier to just do them.

But, yeah, it was the Hot 20 and the Art Charts that people complain about the most. shrug

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

You know what would be nice?
One day I open up to Renderosity and see I have a message, I open the message and read:

Good day member,

We here at Renderosity are considering changing the TOS specifically YOU NAME IT, because YOU DEFINE IT and we would like to participate in a poll as we weigh in on this descision please click the following link:

Then I would click the link and see the options

Yes this change is good

2. This change is bad let's stick with the way things are

3. I don't care either way

4. Read others comments before voting

Then I would click on one of the choices and I would see the results thus far

58%
29%
13%

and a box stating please post my opnions on the matter.

Renderosity is a buisness and it wouldn't be what it is without the Artist, the merchants and the folks who buy stuff.
Then Rendo could look at the poll and then make a descision, they don't have to agree with the poll but if would be a more informed way of doing things. In cases like the example above Rendo could say "hey a majority of you wanted this" those who complain can only blame those who voted. (btw...if were in charge I would count the didn't care as in favor of).
The site seems to be trying to attract new people at the expense of their regulars...
just a thought, just a thought.

reminds of me of the Simpson episode where Moe changes his bar to "M" and the tip jar is still empty

Quote - Renderosity is a buisness and it wouldn't be what it is without the Artist, the merchants and the folks who buy stuff.

Nice. But useless. Because I think already we are numbers. And I'm sure Rosity new members' number grows day-by-day. And Rosity's economical benefits too (obvious: more members, more sells, more money). So... what's the importance of a bunch of old members crying for ancient times?

Believe me: I'm sure people are leaving Rosity by its new policies. But I'M SURE TOO is bigger the number of new members. These are just the important numbers for a market: 'each month we have a bigger number of members', not 'old members are going away'

CASETTE
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"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"

the funny thing is you can't tell when old members leave or are permantly banned because the profiles still exist....the images are what get people here, the newbies see what the experianced guy has done and thinks "wow, I like that, ooh I wanna get that" like I stated before I've been here for a bit and most of the stuff I purchase I've seen used in the gallery.

Quote -

Too much erratic. The big trouble isn't nudity policy, daVinci Thursday, etc etc etc. The big trouble is people don't trust in a site with erratic behavior...

If there ever is to be found an underlying theme around here (aside from the idea of Poser-as-art-tool), "Erratic" covers it fairly well, from the ever-changing TOS to the inconsistency of mod-stuffery.

There's an idea for a website... www.renderratica.com.

My Freebies

Quote - There's an idea for a website... www.renderratica.com.

Yah, and it's not taken yet, either. Maybe they could buy it and put all the "questionable" stuff there...

Perhaps the trouble is that changes in TOS are too much quick and continous in order that mods could learn them. I suppose they aren't reading daily TOS thinking: "mmh, well... what's new today?". So some mods are busy and they learn changes later than other ones

I posted a theorically explanation in a paralel post about all this mess. A fiction. Let me show it. This is an invented story: imagine all you that PayPal's manager, a 60 years old man, takes his laptop and surfs the web taking a view of some sites where he have his bank online. Suddenly, while he's visiting Rosity he finds a thumbnail with a huge boob in the middle. Inmediately, he takes his cell and says: 'Pete, please, send to Renderosity administration the usual nudity email, second version'

And a Rosity administrator glups his coffee reading an email like: 'Dear Renderosity Administration: we're sad to tell you we comprobed your site and we're still founding nudity without warnings, so a software like CyberNanny couldn't detect it and OUR CLIENTS' KIDS would watch forbidden content. This is the second warning we send you requesting you need to extreme cautions because PayPal only offer its services to 'family friendly' sites. We warn you if we find again another example of carelessness we'll inmediately paralize our account with you. We hope next time blahblahblahblah...'

Perhaps...

CASETTE
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"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"

Heh.
's kinda funny - years ago they had a button on the gallery images enabling one to "Send to Renderotica". True, yes there was. I can't remember if it was publicly viewable, or only seen by mods, but it was there, alright.

'course, that was back when RO still had something to do with R'otica.

I have to say, thinking about it, it's been interesting over the years watching the TOS here "evolve" like it has; the strictness therein almost seems to directly coincide with the success of the site.

Not that that should be surprising....

Casette: You may not be far from the truth with that, didn't something similar happen at 'Rotica where all the nasty pics had to be pulled because the credit card Company's demanded it???

Maybe the "God Squadders" over in the US have the same prickly pear up their arse!!!!

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

Oh, yes... and in Erotic Illusions with violence and death pics... another matter with a bank online...

Sadly, but The Bank Is The Boss

CASETTE
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"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"

Quote - I have to say, thinking about it, it's been interesting over the years watching the TOS here "evolve" like it has; the strictness therein almost seems to directly coincide with the success of the site.

Not that that should be surprising....

Hmmm, what do you mean by "success of the site". Compared to what the site was like 3 to 5 years ago I think it's less of a success - the forums are certainly much quieter than they were and if this is an Art Community than I would think its the forums that define a "community" and there for the success of the site.....OH DAMN!! I keep forgetting - its not community it's how successful the marketplace is.

Website: The 3D Scene - Returning Soon!

Twitter: Follow @the3dscene

YouTube Channel

--------------- A life?! Cool!! Where do I download one of those?---------------

Isn't that just yet another example of the Golden Rule? Those that have more gold make the rules for those that don't.

I suppose if that has more priority than all other considerations then they'll get the members they deserve. If they want to have only a commercial art site then why not just dump all the fine art and put Advertising, Banners, TV Ads as genres instead?

It's keeping up the pretense and perpetuating the deception that's the problem

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Quote - I keep forgetting - its not community it's how successful the marketplace is.

Hmm .. valid point. Now I know this will probably be removed but here it goes anyways:

As the ole saying goes - "Money Talks" - so if you're bothered by the TOS then don't spend a red cent in the marketplace. Its that simple. If people stop funding the merchants - the merchants will start questioning policies and if the site wants to keep their marketplace running they'll have to address the issues. Or .. they'll just ban the merchants and users who protest. shrugs

Just enjoying the Vue. :0)

damn, i should have read this before buying stuff.
You know when I was taking buisness courses, Iearned the value of Market research, polls and such, I read the post about the McDonald's blah blah, but if McDonalds had a new policey that stated everyone must where a tie, to please those folks who did wear ties....they wouldn't do so well, Rendo keeps doing the same thing to us.
They keep forcing rules down on us "Homers, Lennys, Carls and Barneys" on the road rushing to find ties....pretty f'd up policy.
I notice that none of the Rendo gods even bothered to respond to my poll idea, they are quick to jump on people who are complainers and say "stop whining" but when someone presents an idea...and one that actually may make a little sense....nothing but crickets.

Cheers, you're absolutely right there.
I was going to put the word success in quotations, i.e. "success", but I figured y'all would know what I meant anyway.

It used to be a much more intimate place than it is now, and I don't mean even having to go all the way back to '99 or 2000. Perhaps a bit more unruly, but it had a certain "personality", which seems to have become watered down considerably, with the advent of the takeover of rampant merchandising.

As for not buying stuff from here as a form of protest or whatever, I doubt that'd have any impact. I haven't bought anything from here in years, and it hasn't mattered any to anybody, I doubt. But it's not out of protest, it's just because, frankly, I don't see anything here ever that I'd want, plus, I'm not so sure about the quality, after reading things like "Marketplace tester wanted...must be able to release 3-5 items a day". The quote isn't exact, most likely, but the essence is accurate. That was an ad for a new MP tester, placed here not long ago (maybe 6 months ago?). The key word being "release". Not "test", which you would think would be the important thing, but, "release"....

I browse DAZ all the time, and have bought much from them over the years, and even very recently. On average, I'd say I buy something or other from them every 2 weeks. The best thing about DAZ is you don't have to wade through 1500 pages of garbage to get at something decent; they're much more strict on their quality, so alot of merchant wanabees don't even get their foot in the door.

I look in the MP here, and I see.... well, I'll be nice today.

"...but when someone presents an idea...and one that
actually may make a little sense....nothing but crickets. "

You don't know the half of it... In the end, this isn't "our" site. It hasn't been "our" site for a long time now. Suggestions will be heard, of course, but anything that goes against the predefined set of parameters that the PTB have laminated in stone, will not be even considered, particularly where the Almighty TOS is concerned.

Casette: You may not be far from the truth with that, didn't something similar happen at 'Rotica where all the nasty pics had to be pulled because the credit card Company's demanded it???

Yeah - I remember reading that was exactly the case - it was images dealing with rape and torture if I remember right.

The almighty dollar speaks - that's a fact of life all over. Rotica found that out the hard way - almost losing their entire way of doing business which would have SHUT IT DOWN ENTIRELY - no business, no gallery...(hint hint hint) Gripe about the business side of Rosity all you want, but if it goes, so does the Gallery. (NOTE: I've never bought anything from the Rosity MP - so I'm not plugging anyone here)

BTW - JenX was right - the first post entirely read as a complaint calling them on the TOS. Direct complaint - no sarcasm at all (there's some research that says a little over 40% of meaning is lost in written communication - this was clearly the case) - and then I was totally bewildered and frustrated that you were NOW complaining that it was removed - I was thinking, "PICK ONE, WILL YA?!?!"

And because the Admins took the complaint seriously (as did I - and I know I'm not alone) and didn't want to ruffle feathers (remember, this IS a business site - and BTW there's a Gallery), they're being hung in post after post.

With all this whining about "not being a community" would everyone suddenly become happy if Rosity became like DAZ in that it's a marketplace first and, oh by the way - we have a Gallery?

That's a real question, BTW - not a gripe - would it make things easier to define as far as TOS if the open-notion of the site changed? Keep in mind that this would be a drastic change, and become MUCH easier for those-in-power to remove/ban/never upload/dissaprove images. It would become a direct representation of "look what you can do with our products" and not filled with a lot of "I did this in less than 3 minutes (I even timed myself) and here is my new ART. I'll be able to upload another one after midnight - so watch out for it!"

I don't give 2-s**ts about nudity - what I DO care about is a complete lack of creativity, or even TRYING to make an interesting image - if you're just learning, more power to ya - and we all understand that when you post - so don't think I'm saying only seasoned professionals should post!

The TOS change as they receive more complaints - if you're not complainging, then be VERY obvious that the post is sarcastic as there's no "tone" in typed words.

"The almighty dollar speaks - that's a fact of life all over. Rotica found that out the hard way - almost losing their entire way of doing business which would have SHUT IT DOWN ENTIRELY - no business, no gallery...(hint hint hint) Gripe about the business side of Rosity all you want, but if it goes, so does the Gallery. (NOTE: I've never bought anything from the Rosity MP - so I'm not plugging anyone here)"

Well,maybe the gallery SHOULD go. If Davinci isn't good enough to grace the gallery here thenwhat IS? NVITWAS is fine but Davinci isn't? Give me a break.

"And because the Admins took the complaint seriously (as did I - and I know I'm not alone) and didn't want to ruffle feathers (remember, this IS a business site - and BTW there's a Gallery), they're being hung in post after post."

Ok, here's a complaint. Lets see if it's taken just as seriously. I don't like Rosity using Master artists names as promotions for their products, just to pull THE master artists work because of some piddly complaint. So lets just end this Great master promotion bullshit,

And Rosity already IS a marketplace like DAZ that oh yeah..... has a gallery. Has been for quite some time. Where have you been for the last 6 years or so?

Well,maybe the gallery SHOULD go. If Davinci isn't good enough to grace the gallery here thenwhat IS? NVITWAS is fine but Davinci isn't? Give me a break.

He is - a complaint was announced that Rosity was a hyppocrit for having nudity in one of its own articles - so they removed the ARTICLE because of the complaint.

And Rosity already IS a marketplace like DAZ that oh yeah..... has a gallery. Has been for quite some time. Where have you been for the last 6 years or so?

Um... Duh... I um... Knew that one... Thanks for sharing... So VERY informative - funny how it's thrown in my face as if to be an informative "you should know that - been that way the entire time" when all I've heard is people bitching over the fact that THERE'S A FREAKIN MARKETPLACE!!!!

I'm sorry - clarification - not that there IS one, but that it's such an integral part of the site that it overshadows the beloved Gallery that everyone complains about uploading to. They've gotta have SOME kind of TOS or you could post ANYTHING!

And what do I mean about "anything"...? One of the local colleges here has a problem - it's mostly an art college - with certain "rights" groups - "Right to Life" specifically - who keep showing up on campus with large boards they display to the students with photographs of aborted fetuses in harsh lighting. They parade around like they're making a point when all they're doing is trying to shock the st out of everyone - no TOS and you have some ahole posting THAT here on Rosity calling themselves "ar-TEESTS". They just want people to look - no viable point, no creativity or thought, no decency - just for people to LOOK (are we noticing a similarity, though, to some of the "ar-teests" here on Rosity - no thought behind an image - that they just want as many people as possible to LOOK?).

I know there's an MP - thanks for the scoop - but what YOU don't realize is there's gotta be some certain level of respectfullness (as JenX pointed out before) in order for any business to be viable. Pose a bunch of st, you don't sell st at the MP - and then the Gallery goes away.

So lets just end this Great master promotion bullshit,

Um... Ever buy a magazine...? "Interview with [big name master what what they do] - Understanding His Unequalled Techniques!" Not only informative, but it's for marketing purposes too - and if they don't do that, they go away... There's YOUR scoop - deal with it.

"Um... Ever buy a magazine...? "Interview with [big name master what what they do] - "

Oh I missed the interview with da Vinci. I bet that was informative. Does he buy Photoshop actions from the Market Place too?

Oh, snap! Good one.

Because, you know, no magazine EVER has written an article on DaVinci to sell paint or pencils.
Ever.

plink

plunk

Excuse me. I have to pick up my eyes. I just rolled them right outta my head.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Wow - clever! Wouldn't have thought of that one because I've read PLENTY of "Master Review" articles! Buy more magazines - until then, as the saying goes, "Stop using the time I'm talking to think of what you're gonna say next!"

I'm aware DaVinci is dead - but thanks for the scoop. Actually think about what is being said - not scanning for any words you can cut and paste to make your argument.

oh, also, to be clear. My above post was rife with sarcasm. Heavy with it, if you will. Potentially dripping with it.
Although, I have to say, I do, honestly, have plenty of magazines that not only have articles about the great masters before our times, used to shill wonderfully bad paints and/or other art materials, some even contain advertisements that USE the old masters' work in them!
The art world is a commercial place. It sucks, but the barter system went the way of the sabre toothed tiger.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

I don't mind that Render is a business, then why aren't they honest about it? Why have such pretensions about being an artists community?

It seems they started with one business strategy when they were small, now that they've gotten larger they've changed it and are trying to promote their busines to different clients with policies that ignore the clients they already had.

That leaves the mods and admins to spin their policies to keep the peace among the members. It's like they're making StacyG into the Tony Snow of Render.

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Numbers, test marketing - it's just how sales-based businesses grow. They figure out what is working better, what's not. And if the profit numbers all point to THIS direction, then that's what you do to survive the market.

Rosity just has the added market benefit of being a very large site, but it still needs to follow the numbers to stay afloat and prosper.

Then they better hope they can replace new clients faster than they lose old ones since that kind of message can spread also. Kinda like the numbers and the market the tobacco companies are looking at isn't it?

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"He is - a complaint was announced that Rosity was a hyppocrit for having nudity in one of its own articles - so they removed the ARTICLE because of the complaint."

They removed the ARTICLE because one of Davincis works was part of it. His work had nudity so OMG gotta get rid of it. I say again, it was a DAVINCI for gods sake, not joe bobs big boobed poser work.

"Um... Duh... I um... Knew that one... Thanks for sharing... So VERY informative - funny how it's thrown in my face as if to be an informative "you should know that - been that way the entire time" when all I've heard is people bitching over the fact that THERE'S A FREAKIN MARKETPLACE!!!!"

Um Duh it HASN'T been that way the entire time. There was a time Rosity didn't HAVE a marketplace. And when the marketplace started it didn't have such a hold on every aspect of the site. The marketplace was a means to keep the gallery, forums, tutorial areas open. But very quickly that reversed and the Marketplace became the driving force behind Rosity with everything else a distant second consideration.

"And what do I mean about "anything"...? One of the local colleges here has a problem - it's mostly an art college - with certain "rights" groups - "Right to Life" specifically - who keep showing up on campus with large boards they display to the students with photographs of aborted fetuses in harsh lighting. They parade around like they're making a point when all they're doing is trying to shock the st out of everyone - no TOS and you have some ahole posting THAT here on Rosity calling themselves "ar-TEESTS""

And this concerns the pulling of a Davinci peice how exactly? Are you saying posting a Davinci that has some nudity is the same as Right to lifers showing aborted fetuses?
I'll say it again, if Rositys TOS is so strict that a DAVINCI has to be pulled,then it's time to shutter the place up. Next week we'll hear Rembrandt can't pass muster as well.

"Um... Ever buy a magazine...? "Interview with [big name master what what they do] - Understanding His Unequalled Techniques!" Not only informative, but it's for marketing purposes too - and if they don't do that, they go away... There's YOUR scoop - deal with it."

I don't recall anything particularly informative about this "Great Master" promotion. Just another way to sell something. If it was an article detailing their works, their techiques, the history of their paintings etc. Then I might agree, but nothing of the sort is being produced. Just a shoddy attempt at selling their wares using the "Great masters" names and works. (as long as those works pass TOS that is lol).Any site that pulls a Davinci, Rembrandt,or whatever, because of TOS doesn't deserve to be called an "Art Community".

JenX wrote:
"oh, also, to be clear. My above post was rife with sarcasm. Heavy with it, if you will. Potentially dripping with it.
Although, I have to say, I do, honestly, have plenty of magazines that not only have articles about the great masters before our times, used to shill wonderfully bad paints and/or other art materials, some even contain advertisements that USE the old masters' work in them!
The art world is a commercial place. It sucks, but the barter system went the way of the sabre toothed tiger."

Ant thats the type of business practice you think Rosity should aspire to? Fine, then since this is just a business, why pull a Davinci because of nudity? Sex sells baby. Time to post some Pron and really bring the suckers in.

Quote -
They removed the ARTICLE because one of Davincis works was part of it. His work had nudity so OMG gotta get rid of it. I say again, it was a DAVINCI for gods sake, not joe bobs big boobed poser work.

Wrong again. I know you don't hang out here all the time, Spiritbro, so on that I'll give you a concession. However, the sale was over, so they removed the article from the front page. They've done that with the past few "masters" articles and sales. The article is still floating around in the ether, and if you have a direct link, you can still find it. It's just not linked to on the front page anymore.

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"Wrong again. I know you don't hang out here all the time, Spiritbro, so on that I'll give you a concession. However, the sale was over, so they removed the article from the front page."

Wow history is been re-written here as we watch.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/news.php?viewStory=13467

See, still exists. Just not on the front page. Because, well, the sale is over.

Also, DDevant, if you want people to not be rude to you, try responding in kind. I don't know how to take your last post as anything but. Unless you'd like to actually tell those of us unknowledged rabble wtf you're talking about.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Ok, never mind, you edited your post. How kind.
Also, no. I found the link. No conspiracy! Just a quick search for DaVinci in the site search.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

So does the linked article still have the Davinci work that caused the contorversy to begin with? Thats been my point all along, Thunder was the one that said the article had been removed. I just went with the flow on that one. MY pont is if you remove a Davinci, then you can't call this an art site, and if you're going to remove a Davinci because of a complaint about nudity then perhaps the PTB shouldn't use Davinci's name to sell their wares.If he's good enough to exploit, his work is good enough to leave standing. If his work isn't good enough to view, then DON'T exploit his NAME! The "Great Masters" promotion is a farce and the subject of quite a bit of snickering amongst those I hang with.
So once again, if complaints are met with the pulling of master works, I hearby complain about the whole stupid promotion. End it. And while you're at it pull down the gallery. If Davinci isn't good enough to grace this site then exactly WHAT IS? We're not talking about porn showing women shagging themselves, we're not talking about pics of aborted fetuses. We're talking about DAVINCI for gods sake.

Hey, YOU said they removed the article. They didn't, it's there. If you MEANT that they removed the image, you should have said "THey removed the image".

You know what? The admin staff works way too hard to try to please people that will find any way and any reason to treat them like shit. I would have not only ignored this thread from an admin point of view, I'd have ignored the subsequent bullshit that has been birthed within the posts that followed.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

The trouble is that the admin staff that works very hard often doesn't set the policies that they have to spend so much time trying to defend.

The subsequent bullshit doesn't start with them but as I've always experienced the shit flows downhill. The admin gets it from above and it flows down to the members, who are treated like shit and this thread was an attempt to voice the displeasure of the shit and trying to give some back.

The people that are setting the policies certainly are ignoring it since they're focused on the bottom line. Unfortunately a lot of the mods and admin are caught in the middle whether they deserve it or not.

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Jen, Im not trying to get into a pissing contest with you. But I was quoting Thunder about the removal of the article.

**"****He is - a complaint was announced that Rosity was a hyppocrit for having nudity in one of its own articles - so they removed the ARTICLE because of the complaint."
**
They removed the ARTICLE because one of Davincis works was part of it. His work had nudity so OMG gotta get rid of it. I say again, it was a DAVINCI for gods sake, not joe bobs big boobed poser work.

The text in quotes and bold print was THUNDERS post, my response is under it.So as I said, I was going with the flow. My mistake for taking for granted he knew wtf he was talking about.

Jen wrote:

"You know what? The admin staff works way too hard to try to please people that will find any way and any reason to treat them like shit. I would have not only ignored this thread from an admin point of view, I'd have ignored the subsequent bullshit that has been birthed within the posts that followed."

You know thats the same pat admin BS answer thats been spouted for years." The admin staff works so hard so give them a break and follow along like good little lemmings". Guess what? No one put a gun to their head and MADE them take the job. If being a admin is too much work, perhaps they should find something else to do with their time. For those that stick however, if I see something stupid, like pulling a Davinci PICTURE, then I can and will call them on their bullshit.

Just because you see something as "stupid" certainly doesn't make it so. That is your opinion only. I have my own ideas of what is stupid just as we all do but they are only opinions.

And all admins DO work VERY hard and fortunately we all love our job because of the members here.

Spiritbro77 - you've missed the boat time and again with your posts - THINK for a moment rather than scanning for the next thing you could possible argue about.

The image/article - WHATEVER (man-you fixated on that like a 5yr old on candy - does it really f**ing matter for the purposes of this argument?!) - was removed because of a complaint. Not becuase of nudity - because of a complaint. Not because of TOS - because of complaint. Not becuase it was deemed porn - because of a complaint. Not because it wasn't good enough to be on the site - because of a COMPLAINT - are you noticing a common word here...? Use brain... Think... All this started over a - let's all say it together now for the ones who might yet start another misrepresented and bogus argument might ACTUALLY understand it - COMPLAINT (though he has said more recently that it was just him joking)!

And this concerns the pulling of a Davinci peice how exactly? Are you saying posting a Davinci that has some nudity is the same as Right to lifers showing aborted fetuses?
I'll say it again, if Rositys TOS is so strict that a DAVINCI has to be pulled,then it's time to shutter the place up. Next week we'll hear Rembrandt can't pass muster as well.

Brain... Use brain... No, I didn't say that. Part of how this thread has gotten OT is a smallish debate over strictness of the TOS - and someone even mentioned at one point the desire to just have an open Gallery where no one's art is inhibited at ALL - WAY bad idea! That was my adressing that issue - too bad I didn't make it clearer that I was speaking of THAT in particular - sorry for any confusion there.

And don't chew on the admins - that is one thankless job I'd never wanna have! My wife served for ONE year on a community board hoping to make changes that would better the place, instead of the "business as usual", and we were inundated with people calling the house at all hours of the night chewing her out for all kinds of stuff - and she just got there!

Great line outta "Clerks": "This'd be a great job if it weren't for all the f***ing customers."

They can't please everyone - post a classic DaVinci image that happens to show a penis and it gets a complaint that suggests hypocracy on their own rules, so they take it down - THEN they get their asses handed to them for taking it down! After complaints , the make it part of the TOS that they can't have nudity in the thumbnail (because some folks did NOT click the nudity tags, or the violence tags - for those of you who argued about filtering!), an people still did it. So NOW, they make it in the TOS/operations/whatever (all we need right NOW is for you to start arguing over which portion this is) that it's no longer a thumbnail but a Content Advisory image.

Some people make it their mission in life o buck the system/shake things up (my personal favorite of their expression, as if this makes them more important or cool - just more ignorantly annoying to me!) and so the response for any administration (in ANY corporation/business) is to get more and more strict - and then they get smacked around for doing it because it'!

They've got a crappy job (yes, be fortunate they love their jobs!) - make no mistake about it! Do you really think they look forward to seeing yet another f***ing "Stupid TOS" thread in the Forums?! All they can do is try to keep things running as smoothly as they can with what they've got, and who they have to deal with.

SB, is the Vitruvian Man such an important piece that this argument needs to go on and on and on? Surely, Da Vinci was a great artist and engineer, but, are you truly fighting an argument because you truly believe it, or is this thread yet another big, huge "HEY, LOOK, EVERYBODY! RENDEROSITY'S DONE SOMETHING STUPID AGAIN!!!" thread?
See, while you may see many of the renderosity policies as something stupid, many see them as sensible. Others, mostly the admin, and those that would like the site to remain open and operational, see them as necessary. Between seeking advertisers to spend money on the site to keep it open, and seeking great artists to fuel the Marketplace, the Admin have to make a lot of people happy.
I look at this logistically, because, well, that's how my brain functions. Sorry if I get overly analytical.
Let's say Member X spends roughly $2000 per year in the MP. Off the top, cut that in 1/2, because for every product in the MP, Rendo gets 50%, at the very least. So, that's $1000 that the member spent on digital product to keep the site alive. Now, here's another breakdown.
Every digital item that is in the store takes up physical space on a physical server. For Member X to download the product, there needs to be electricity to run the server, as well as at LEAST a T-1 line. If not faster. Each time Member X downloads, or attempts to download and it finishes or fails, that member is not just utilizing the file or bandwidth. There is also electrical useage and wear and tear on the machines housing the file.
And, speaking of bandwidth....Each page load downloaded from the server at Bondware to Member X's computer at home is utilizing bandwidth, electricity, and wear and tear on the server. Renderosity, as a business, has to pay their telco for being a "virtual ISP", and I'm willing to bet that Rendo and bondware are the local telco's favorite customers :lol:
Oh, and there are those pesky "people". You know. Staff. Admin. Mods. Coordinators. Moles...I mean Programmers. Renderosity, as far as I'm aware (I haven't visited the office yet, but, if I get the chance, I'll do it this summer) is not a cult-office, housing and feeding the staff at the office so they don't have to pay them. Because that would be stupid. (Although, I could be wrong. I've heard some weird stories about what Clint does at the office)
(kidding, Clint. You can put that pie down.)
The staff that work there, they need to get paid, to make it worth their while to work for the site. Let's pretend that this isn't the real world, and they're all working for Minimum Wage. $5.15 per hour. Clint, Debbie, Jenifer, Lillian, Stacey, Tammy, Tim, Nicholas, Tommy, and Mendy...they all work for $5.15 per hour. Per year, Renderosity needs to bring in at least $107120.00, just to pay them at $5.15 per hour for 40 hours per week, 52 weeks per year. And, if you've been around, they pull in a LOT more than 40 hours a week. Most of the admin staff will be answering questions in the middle of the night, on the weekends, fixing problems, etc. And, I doubt that Tim, when doling out salaries, thought so low of his staff that he would only pay the national minimum wage. HOWEVER, it's something to think about. Those folks I named do this full-time. They leave their families, go to the bondware offices, and work here. Probably because they're insane, but mostly because they really like this place. If they didn't, I'm sure there are jobs in Nashville that pay similar, or more, with much less abuse.
So, in order to bring in that kind of money, to pay the full-time staff, and to compensate the non-full-time, off-site staff, Rendo not only sells items in the marketplace, they also seek to find advertisers who not only have visions that fit with what Renderosity is (and, despite the bitching, it is a community. Many communities that I've been in during my life have had a market of some sort.) while still maintaining a bit of integrity. So, if they have to bring about changes to make the site look more professional, so be it. If they have to make banks, advertisers or investors happy, they have to, or the site will tank. It sucks, but it's how the world works.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

You're quite right. It's my opinion. Nothing more ,nothing less. But come on Stacey, don't you think it's a bit messed up to exploit Davinci's name, only to later remove one of his images because of some puritanical rule against nudity? If you're going to exploit the masters, then at least show some respect for their work. :)

Also, on the nudity thing.
Let's get real.
There's Botticelli.
There's Michelangelo.

And then there's the Poser Gallery.
Not saying that there aren't very beautiful nude artwork in the Poser galleries. There are. But, one must separate the wheat from the chaf. A LOT. However, most of it....well, most of it looks like little Karrie got into mommy's makeup, put it all over her barbie doll, put playdoh on the boobs to make them bigger, and took a photo. No expressions. Usually thoughtless composition and overal integrity with regards to lighting and..well, reality. With stuff like "gee, my hand can't go through my boob, why can hers?" never comes to mind with many of the members.
So, please, let's REALLY not insult the masters by thinking that much of the galleries here are anywhere close to on par.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

only to later remove one of his images because of some puritanical rule against nudity?

Boat going by... Missed it again... Complaint - not rule... Complaint - not TOS... Complaint - not nudity... COMPLAINT. TRY to get it right SOMEDAY, please...? It was removed because of a... complaint... Load and intergrate into brain... use brain...

*There's Botticelli.
There's Michelangelo.
And then there's the Poser Gallery.

Haha! Yes, the difference being that the Masters painted excellent nudes for study of skin, lighting, general techniques, excellent composition, illustration, etc. While there are a number of good artists throughout the Poser Gallery, there's a LOT of what someone in the thread described as simply masterbatory material! Nothing more - and not a lick of atistic merit.

Dear thundering1 you have mentioned many times that the image was removed because of a complaint. If you look at the origional posting you will see that it is a question to the admins . At no point in the message do I complain about the da Vinci image. Thought I should point that out to you before you got too carried away with yourself :)

On the front page there is an article entitled "daVinci Thursday". Does not the 2nd image of that article, the one of the full frontal drawing of a male contravene your own TOS?

While framed in a question format, it came across as a passive agressive complaint - hey guys, aren't you guys violating your OWN TOS (smile - wink wink, nudge nudge - hypocrites)?

I realize NOW you were being sarcastic, but at the time I did not, and it seems I wasn't alone as it was then removed. Hence, my useage of the word "complaint" as Spiritbro77 couldn'tseem to get past "nudity" and "TOS" as any reason it was removed. Hence my getting carried away - with Spiritbro.

But that's kind of the lens of history isn't it? A lot of the great masters that people admire today weren't appreciate at the time they lived. Plus a lot that survived to this time was their best work not all of their sketches and practice from when they started right?

So take comparison to the gallery with a grain of salt since there are some artists in there with the caliber of talent displayed by the masters and a lot that are just starting out and still practicing. Isn't it unfair to judge all artist at different levels of developement by that?

My point is if they're going for consistency why try to forcing some intolerant standards based on the opinions of only part of the members on all of them when they have different tastes?

Instead of using the options already in place, why try to force everyone into the same mold if not for financial motives?

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The image was removed simply because regardless of whos image it was it contained nudity and there was no tag to say this before clicking into the article which is against our own guidelines, it was a mistake.. nothing more nothing less. We don't have nudity on the front page articles that I'm aware of because of this NO MATTER WHO THE ARTIST is, master or not. period. IF it was allowed to stay then we would have gotten slammed for disregarding the rules we ask the members to follow. Simple.

I wasn't faulting that you were following the rules, just that article was written and posted that way. Just another in a long line of mistakes in editing?

As they say **When Nudity is Outlawed only Outlaws will have Nudity
                     When Marriages are Outlawed only Outlaws will have In-laws
                     When Tolerance is Outlawed only Outlaws will have Tolerance
**

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I wasn't referring directly to you with my last post, I was directing that to the comments made by Spiritbro.

And it was a mistake, as everyone makes mistakes and the staff here is no different, It does happen and Lillian stated that 4 pages back.

Once upon a time there was this place called Renderosity were people came and posted images, some were rude, others very crude but some were quite nice, I came I looked and every now and then I commented.
I sat on the sidelines until I tried my hand.
I worked, and I worked and finally I posted, tons of renders discarded along the way, I posted for my first image, proud of what I had accomplished, ready to show the world, not as good as many I had seen, but not as bad as others.
Upload.
A minute went by, then an hour, a day, and then a week....within a month 30 renders posted with a total of maybe...200 views. What could I have done wrong? I wondered. So to the forums I went, I asked and the answers came from various sources....
"Oh, the renders is nice, but you need to entice"
So back to the rendering board I went, yet a thumb to entice, I was not sure, hmm a cut, here a cut here, perhaps this...for this is what my favorites did when they were just starting...some of this and some of that, Take that off and show a little flesh, hmmm that's better, but perhaps I should show a naked woman's breast.
So there again I was, with a gallery with 30 images...and less than 200 views total, and two comments given....
Upload.
Two big breast in the thumb...a minute..a view, an hour lots of views, more and more and my popularity grew. at the end of the day, this one render, no better, nor worse than the others had tripled the views to my gallery and my comments kept flowing.
Time went by...
My renders would seldom feature nudity, seldom feature breast, clean thumbnails...and on the average a new render would recieve in a day 600 views, a comments on page 2!
And then I moved.
No internet,
No access to my old email,
Internet restored,
Enroll children in school
Off to the ship we go.
Finally some time ...now where was that link, what was my username...what was my old email address?
And back to the rendering board again "this will be great better than any other of my works"
Upload
a minute
an hour
and I was back to square one.
My skill had improved, much more thought behind each render...but no one was looking and then I remembered!
Boobs in the thumbnails, show a little flesh and the views started to come, and with views more comments, still not where it was but slowly but surely climbing back, yet this time I would entice the crowd with boobs but upon opening the render hopefully they would see the amount of work in each piece.
Then a new rule...
And gone were the views,
And gone were the comments...

Was it a gimmick, did I lie, trick or mislead? No, the thumb did show what was inside and if one did not wish to view, they did not, but they viewed, they viewed a lot.

Without clicking on any of my images, look at my galleries first page, look at the views when you get to Cosplay Sisters which was posted the day before the thumbnail changed (I changed some a lot of the thumbs on the ones prior to that when I was unsure of the new rule) look at the difference between the day before and the subsequent days after. Now if I were one of the popular artist....the change would not effect me, but I am not...an artist, nor am I popular. And although I do dervie a great deal of joy from making a render and the time I spend before even opening poser, the fact that no one is looking...well it sux. Many of the newer guys will most likely feel the same....not a whine, a fact.

As for Renderotica the bondage images at first were going to go the way of the do do and for a few days they were gone...then the members spoke up, and the site did something inovative...it listened. All the members accounts were changed to filter out those images and if you wanted to see that type of stuff, you had un check that filter. If something was mislabled the mod simply changed it to what it should have been and a email was sent saying hey we changed the setting from this to that because....

Now Renderosity already had the default filter but went a different route...the established guys applaud it but if you look deep down in their galleries (for those that still have their first few renders posted you will see where they went from 1 view and hour to 100 views an hour with a slew of comments....for the most part you'll see it wasn't the quality of the work that all of the sudden changed, it was the boobs in the thumbnails, once they became established then they left that behind, but for new guys, if you're not established here your views will become less and less.
Tomorrow I'm going to time myself and do a five minute render....watch what I put in the thumbs and watch the views and the comments compared to what I posted the last few days...most of you won't be surprised but some will pretend they are.

oooh I wrote way too much, sorry I love to write. The site admins and mods for the most part are doing great jobs, but I like many others in the last few days (a lot of folks have taken down their galleries and other post a lot less) are finding out the joy that was here once upon a time seem like a distant fairy tale.
We all remeber what happened when McDonald's tried to "grow up" the infamous Arc Burger? Yeah...there's good (this isn't a hardcore porn site so the renders shouldn't have hardcore porn) and then there's too much "thumbnails nudity, I won't mention my other ones" ala the difference between the Big Mac and the Arc Burger.

"...and do a five minute render....watch what I put in the thumbs..."

Yeah, I'm curious - and don't worry - you didn't write too much ;-)

I will send you an IM thundering!

Well, I like the new thumbnail policy. so now I don't have to have the filters on at work when looking through the site (sorry Cruzin). I think if you post good stuff, people will view, people will comment, the "big names" didn't get to be the "big names" just because of big boobs, it may have helped them get recognized but it's a gimmick and the good stuff eventually rises to the top.
I have seen what the new policey has done to your overall ratings but the comments keep coming in, so even though it being veiwed less, it's still being appreciated.
Creme rises to the top.

Here's the thing .. we can argue/discuss the TOS till the cows come home .. but its not going to change a thing. There SHOULD have been a massive poll ... but if there was even a small one - I wasn't counted. But thats over an done with .. and its unlikely that it'll ever change. In fact - there is a higher probability of things getting worse then there is of things getting better.

Obviously - the PTB have more pull then the members that make up the site. Whatever .. if I don't like it - or it gets too much to bear - I can always retreat to the comforts of my OWN site. (Heck - thats were 98% of my art gets posted anyways).

There are two major things that upset me about this place:

1.) We lose great contributers to the community for valid reasons and few people give a rats butt. Not the PTB an not the members - they all take the side thats profitable an popular.

AND the biggest reason - well it involes 2 factors that will get me banned quick, fast and in a stinking hurry.

A few years back - someone had a great idea .. and they started off on the right foot. However somewhere along the lines .. the mission statement went out the window ... and everything got too complicated (money has a tendancy to complicate things).

I feel bad that with every silly rule change .. we lose assets to the community. Guess I'm the only one that cares. Obviously the owner doesn't.

Just enjoying the Vue. :0)

I have a major annoyance about the new policy in regards to how the art charts work, but it would only make this big, stupid policy mess even worse, so I'll keep it to myself.

My Freebies

Even tho' you have told me to "piss off" I for one would like to hear it...pjz99, as long as we are all crying over spilled milk, what's a few more tears? Plus, sometimes...very rarely it seems over here, someone in power does listen and thinks..."whoa that makes sense"

P.S. You can veiw a gallery without being a member (yeah I'm an @ssh0le at times, but 99.9% right...half the time) LOL

I just want to say thank you for the new policy.

I tried to peruse the gallery and, not being afraid of nudity, got hit in the face with the "monster tits of doom" that I try to avoid more times in one session than in my entire time here. So I will most likely stop looking at all but a couple of people's work.

I have no complaints with those that do like that genre, but I was able to make an informed desicion not to look when they were honestly represented on the thumbnail pages for what they were. Now I am unable to do so.

I must side with the "there were/are filters in place for a reason" crowd. I had reserved forming an opinion on this new policy until I could see what it's implementation was going to do. Well, my opinion is that it is crap. If I am going to click on images that I would have preffered to NOT see, I being one to just close the tab it's in and move along, I see this ending up generating even more complaints from the puritants, as now they can blame Renderosity for their viewing of even more material that they "would never, never ever" instead of accepting responsibility for thier tastes.

My gallery was pulled in reaction to DaVinci, not the thumbnail policy, before anyone tries to make it anything else.

Again, thank you to the ones that put this policy in place, I have alot more free time not that cruising the galleries is out of my routine.

Want a shirt?

**Orchid_Noir you've made a very valid point, although I'm all for big breasted larger than life mams, some people (I'm probably in the some people crowd) just don't know how to do them right (if there is a right). So before I would look at the thumb and go...meh...now I look at the thumb and go...well this looks [then i click on the image] and there these things are...
but I've looked at how things work here and once a policy is set...well it's set.

You will notice how nothing positive or constructive critism (where's spell check) isn't commented on by the Admins or the Mods. They address the whines with smart@ss and I gotta say sometimes funny (ok, lot's of times funny) comebacks, but make a suggestion...and they move on to the easy question...

Meaning unless you put up something that can be easily batted down and laughed at, a valid point is just something to ignore.
Before I get jumped on...I asked about a poll, or suggested a poll, a couple of people picked up on the idea...it made sense but instead of even bothering to reply to something that made sense, let's go back to an issue that was already discussed until my screen turned blue...
**

Quote - Even tho' you have told me to "piss off" I for one would like to hear it...pjz99, as long as we are all crying over spilled milk, what's a few more tears?

Perhaps I was more terse with you than I might have been, but I don't care to trade flames with people via PM. I don't really care to do it in public either. Yes, you can search someone's gallery up without logging in, but the thumbnail policy has zero to do with that, because without logging in, you get "Content Advisory" thumbs. I don't really care to argue the ins and outs of this search link or that dropdown. It's really not particuarly relevant, if someone wants to see titties, all they have to do is register anyway.

I'll keep my annoyance with the art charts list myself, the only thing I could do would be to make it MORE annoying.

My Freebies

I don't understand why some people have problem with big boobs.
Some women have really big breasts and these are real!!!
Even a woman with small breast when she is pregnant or have a child his breast is increased in a significant way, imagine one that has by nature big ones!
Of course big size by itself is not enough, it requires a nice shape and an aesthetical combination with the rest of the body. In real life is more difficult to be achieved, but it happens sometimes..
With Poser is easy, just only a dial setting.

Stupidity also evolves!

Forum: Community Center

Subject: The TOS