V4's eyes are unrealistic in close ups.. I thought this tute would help fix the problems http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=51042
(why oh why is her eye contour shipped  flat instead of round beats me) ..anyway..the tute is for D/S and I'm finding it hard to get to work in  P7...sooo my q. is this: are there any tutes like the one for D/S which can help fix the eye problems in P7?  V4 has a lot of potential but she needs many fixes..one of them being the eyes...the other the shoulder kink when the arms are raised...urk!  Thanks for any suggestions.

What specifically do you find unrealistic in V4's eyes in close ups?  Do these close ups look unrealistic?  (not that realism is a special goal of mine, really)

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1368598
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1358800

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Do you mean something like your gallery submission:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1371844&member

If so, EyeTear is what you want to look at, your other V4 renders look pretty good to me (although I am not into the Emma makeup, personally).  EyeTear can do some unpleasant looking things depending on lighting and render settings - sometimes you won't see it at all, and sometimes it really sticks out like it does in that render, which otherwise looks really nice.

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I find a lack of depth in most of the poser figures on rendering.  (though pjz's look incredible, and its a feat I simply couldn't do in poser alone, take that advice!!).

If you have photoshop (or simmilar art program) simply using the burn tool underneath the upper eyelid to shadow the white and iris will give you the round effect your going for.  That is the only way I can seem to make them have depth.

Mine are not postworked a bit, it's all raw render.

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I kinda agree with tiara - it would be nice to have the technical prowess to produce realistic eyes every time with no postwork - but i am never happy with the eyes & always touch them up in PSP7 - i don't have a very powerful PC at the moment & i would rather spend the time in PSP tinkering with the eyes - as i know what i will finish up with. I would get a bit bored keep re-rendering to get the eyes right. Saying that, hats off to the people who can get it right with no post-work.

Attached Link: Camigwen

**You could also try lowering the opacity on the eye surface and the tear to let the eyewhite and iris show through more. That's how I did the eyes on Camigwen. Opacity on eye surface set to 25% and on tear to 25%. Just connect your main texture to the tranparency also in the material room.

**

Thanks for your suggestions.  I tried reducing firstly the Eye cover, then the Tear transparency each to 0.25000 in P7 but it looks white in render...see screenshot.     Also was going to try 
**Unicornst's suggestion to ** "connect your main texture to the tranparency also in the material room."   but not sure how to do this?

**pjz99: it's a bit hard to tell in yr first image 'cause the eyes are hidden..but the 2nd looks great..ie realistic.    I just can't get that with V4 even with postworking.
**

Quote - What specifically do you find unrealistic in V4's eyes in close ups?  Do these close ups look unrealistic?  (not that realism is a special goal of mine, really)

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1368598
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1358800

Try making the Tear totally transparent (zero Transparancy and Transparency Falloff).  E.g.:

.... well dammit I have a render going just the the now. 

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Right then, where were we:

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Gives us this.

PS:  I found the attached image so outrageously sexy that I wet my pants.  Which is probably more than you wanted to know, but I add this only for completeness' sake.

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It isn't a set-it-and-forget-it thing though, because sometimes I like the shine from the Tear to be more overt like attached.

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And so forth.  Basically do a spot render around just the eyes and see how it's going to look, tinker with it.  It's kind of organic.  Hope this helps.

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Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1053847

I did this a few years ago (SEE LINK) in poser 4 just by seeing how each option affected rendering, then applying things like HDR probes (as JPG, HDR info lost obviously on Poser 4)  to the reflection of the cornea with transparency at 99%, but reflectivity up to the max.

It's always trial & error unless you're the guy who's made the application.

One more for luck.  Shh, the baby's sleeping.

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V4 eyes are a nuisance. And your renders do not convince me otherwise.
Some of the main problems:

1/ No shadow from lashes or upper eyelids
2/ The eyes tend to pop out like as if she were suffering from hyperthyroid
3/ The eyewhites look more like eggshells. No wet look can change that.

I have tried prudent planning long enough. From now I'll be mad. (Rumi)

Not trying to convince you of anything ^_^  Don't like her, don't use her.  Shadow from the lashes you could fix with a prop if that was really what you wanted; shape of her eyes in this particular character is my own preference and appears to be one that you do not share, but can be fixed with morphs pretty simply; eyewhites here are simply a texture, there are dozens of others.

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You know, on the topic of eyelash shadows, it may be that you are mistaken.

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If it's the lack of depth detail about the iris you could use the free eyes by Adorna in the freepozitory, blackhearted eyes, or make some of your own as I eventually did. I made two eye props. The second is for transmapped reflections, and can be rotated up, down, left, right to match the lighting in your scene.

> Quote - Thanks for your suggestions.  I tried reducing firstly the Eye cover, then the Tear transparency each to 0.25000 in P7 but it looks white in render...see screenshot.     Also was going to try  > **Unicornst's suggestion to ** "connect your main texture to the tranparency also in the material room."   but not sure how to do this?

**Take a look at  pjz's screenshots. See where it says Color Texture? Drag a connection from the plug there to your transparency. Do the same for your Tear.

Of you're not sure what I'm saying, give me some time to get some screenshots made. I just got home from work.

There is another way of doing it that I found from trial and error, but it's a bit more complicated. I'll try to get some screenshots of that method also. But here is a shot of how the eyes I did turned out using the method I discovered.**

An artist of any calibre has to work with the tools they are given.  PJZ99, I have to admit, has a knack and talent for rendering eyes which I do not posess.  Unicornst's are also fantastic, I , personally, Can't seem to get that out of my renders.   Therefore, I rely on something else entirely.

I think I do understand your complaint however, but its not the eyelash shadow, but the LID.  Unfortunately, figures are what they are, and the eyes they come with are inherently PART of the entire mesh of the figure.  Therefore, unlike a real eye, they do not nessesarily "sink in" under the lid, but sort of, smooth into it.  Ultimately, this leads to that "lack of depth.".

The aforementioned suggestions of course, are the first and best way to go.   Eye props, which are seperate from the figure, will of COURSE give you more depth.   Also, the suggestions for rendering, and settings I have tried myself, and they are a vast vast improvement.  A little info (and playing with that info) gets you a long way.

However, if none of these float your boat, you can go for my usual plan of attack.  Postowork.  Every 3d figure, no matter how fantastic, could always use some.  Its in the hands (and computers!) of the artist, to do what works for them for the effect we are looking for.  So, here is my example to get the depth you are looking for.  I do not expect it to change your opinion, but if the eyes are giving you that much greif, its worth a shot!

Use the dodge and burn tools:

And there you go, instant depth.

Is this what you are looking for?

Oh, I see what you mean about shadow from the eyelid on the eyeball itself.  I wonder if you couldn't get that with a very subtle Ambient Occlusion on EyeSurface.

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How did you create a transparency node...I can't find it in any of the menus when creating a new node???

Quote - How did you create a transparency node...I can't find it in any of the menus when creating a new node???

What you want is an "Image_map" node (Poser changes the displayed name for nodes when it loads materials, but they are really just "Image_map"s).

<Unfortunately, figures are what they are, and the eyes they come with are inherently PART of the entire mesh of the figure.  Therefore, unlike a real eye, they do not nessesarily "sink in" under the lid, but sort of, smooth into it.  Ultimately, this leads to that "lack of depth.".>

.... V3 or A3 eyes can look v. realistic...V4 is great 'cause of her extra morphs etc..but the eyes are turning me off using her.  P/work is important..but can only enhance what's already there. 

Quote - > Quote - How did you create a transparency node...I can't find it in any of the menus when creating a new node???

What you want is an "Image_map" node (Poser changes the displayed name for nodes when it loads materials, but they are really just "Image_map"s).

 

..Selected eye surface material....created new 2d node..loaded Emma eye map....changed trans. to 25%...same problem...white looking membrane over eye.  Obviously doing something v. wrong..buggered if I can figure out what.

Ambient Occlusion on Sclera

Samples  3
MaxDist  0.455000
RayBias  0.017200
Strength 0.400000

Lacrimal

AO settings at default.

Both plugged into Diffuse Value, and Specular Value channells.

Actually, I prefer Tiara's method of burn and dodge.

Keller

Quote - How did you create a transparency node...I can't find it in any of the menus when creating a new node???

 

To be quite honest I cheated - I used the DAZ high-rez materials set and simply changed some texture and bump map filenames, and a few small tweaks to numbers here and there.  In the case of the Nadia textures, which I loved, I don't recall they came with much of anything besides texture and bumpmap, so that was my workaround.

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Quote - ..Selected eye surface material....created new 2d node..loaded Emma eye map....changed trans. to 25%...same problem...white looking membrane over eye.  Obviously doing something v. wrong..buggered if I can figure out what.

 

Aha!  Transparency should be 1.0 (completely transparent), pretty much always imo.  Transparency_Falloff is probably what you're looking at changing.

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**The method I found to make her eyes look better is to have no highlight on the iris for the main map (where the two irises and the eyewhite are). Then to make sure that you have the iris and the eyewhite on the surface map as well and connect that to the transparency as well as the Color and set the Transparency at 25%. The Tear uses the Surface Map with a transparency map as well. Same Surface map with the Tear area painted a skin color and the Transparency map is black with grey feathering out towards the ends of the Tear. The transparency setting on it is set at 75% and color set on a light grey instead of white. That way, you can still get the reflective qualitites without too much "whiteness".

That's why I said it was a bit more complicated. The eyes you see above this were done that way. They're from my pack I made for V4 and all the eyes are made the same way. Takes awhile to do and, yes, lots more work, but I liked the results much better than her "standard" eyes. So whenever I use V4, I use those eyes. Not trying to sound like I know it all or anything, but about the only thing I didn't like about V4 when she came out was her eyes. I found them to be too stark white on the eyewhites and set about trying to bring that part down and letting the veins normally seen be shown.

**

JackieD.... You have a private message. grin

**Unicornst..your right - the instructions were too complex for me so I downloaded your eyes (many thanks) and they're a big improvement except that the pupil doesn't seem to have a highlight...but that could be something to do with my renders. 

Someone over at DAZ suggested  AdoranaEyes 2 here in the freebie section so I'll check that out tomorrow.  All this just to get V4's eyes to match the realism of the rest of her body! Phew....**

**Jackie....the pupil will pick up the light you have in your scene. It gives back that reflection. Try moving a llight around until you can see it reflected.

That's why I didn't make the eye surface totally transparent. It picks up reflections from your Poser lights that way without having it go overboard.**

Oh..ok..thanks for that.  I'll give it a go tomorrow.  Appreciate your help :=)

It's worth spending more time on the eyes than anything else - sounds wierd, but a good set of eyes will make a character seem real more than any pose or body texture or subsurface skin effects or hdri lighting rig. Without depth to the eyes, there is no perceived soul and so subconsiously we automatically judge the render defunct.

I'd also recommend that you don't compare your eye renderings to other people's renderings - compare them to photos and try to recreate actual eyes. Not that I've got it right or ever will, but it's fun having a good go.

Quote - Oh..ok..thanks for that.  I'll give it a go tomorrow.  Appreciate your help :=)

Let me know how it goes.

dt00swc....great reflection you have going there.

Dodge and burn influence the colour also. Better is to duplicate the layer, set to multiply, add a black mask, and paint on that with white or light grey. To get the best results, lower the saturation of the top layer,and chan,ge the hue a bit towards blue. You can always correct what you do afterwards, and you have the poacity to play with.

**Gongyla..many thanks for your suggestions - I'd forgotten about the dodge and burn tools.  I usually paint over the top and experiment with changing opacity layers - this is what I did with the image of Anner..but it didn't affect that horrid tear. **

this is what I mean:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1375498