See the neck line and how it got crinkled.

How did this happen ?

How do you make it not do that ?

Thanks

RorrKonn
http://www.atomic-3d.com

geee that's beautiful

Try assigning the neck line to the constrained cloth group. That will hold it in place relative to the neck as the cloth simulation processes.

I can see from your wireframe that the shoulders went a bit spiky too.  I wonder what your cloth dynamics are set like?  It may be that you have stretch set very low, or static friction set too high.

Under the hood, those quad polygons are divided into two triangles. The cloth will not stretch well along the dividing edge, but will stretch much better along the other diagonal. That's what is causing the "sawtooth" effect.

There are also four polygons where two different "edge loops" end in a single vertex. These polygons behave differently in the cloth simulator.
Id suggest bringing the cloth back into your modeling application, and chamfer the collar edge. That'll get rid of the edge loop problem.

Once you've chamfered the collar, I'd suggest copying the edge polygons to a separate object, invert their normals, and extrude/bevel them for a small amount, let's say 0.1 cm extrude and -0.05 cm bevel.
Also extrude+bevel the original edge polygons. Weld the objects together, and now the collar will have some thickness.
Because the "back" of the collar polygons have their normals facing the other way, the dividing edges will follow the other diagonal, effectively canceling the sawtooth effect. The collar will also be stiffer, just like a real life doubly layered collar would be.
And the final bonus will be that the cloth doesn't look "paper thin", like many dynamic clothes do.

Before you do the chamfering, I'd suggest subdividing the shirt once, making the shirt polygons approximately the same size as Aiko's polygons. The cloth simulator tends to work better when the polygons of the cloth object and the collision object are roughly the same size.

And I'd suggest lowering the Collision Offset and Collision Depth to 0.1 or 0.2 both. In your simulation, it looks like you've kept them at their default values of 1.0 - which means that the cloth will try to keep a distance of 1.0 centimeters from Aiko. 0.1 would equate 1 millimeter, which is a far more realistic cloth-skin distance.
Low Collision Offset and Collision Depth values require higher poly clohting, however. Low poly clothing will very likely suffer pokethru.

Hope this helps,

Steven.

"Once you've chamfered the collar, I'd suggest copying the edge polygons to a separate object, invert their normals, and extrude/bevel them for a small amount, let's say 0.1 cm extrude and -0.05 cm bevel.
Also extrude+bevel the original edge polygons. Weld the objects together, and now the collar will have some thickness.
Because the "back" of the collar polygons have their normals facing the other way, the dividing edges will follow the other diagonal, effectively canceling the sawtooth effect. The collar will also be stiffer, just like a real life doubly layered collar would be.
And the final bonus will be that the cloth doesn't look "paper thin", like many dynamic clothes do."

Hi Steven (and RorrKonn - sorry to intrude on this thread), but you've lost me there..
I'm also a newbie at creating Dynamic clothing, and at "higher-end" modelling apps.
I've recently got into Hexagon and managed to make some reasonable clothing using it.
I understand about edge-loops, extrusion, reversing normals and so-forth (not sure about bevel, Hex doesn't seem to have that, at least not under that name).

What I don't quite understand what the resulting (edge) of the mesh should look like.
Any chance of you posting a screen-cap of what is intended to be achieved?
Once I see it, I can (hopefully) reproduce the same effect in Hex, and that would be a great help to me, for one... :-)

Cheers,
Diolma

Here's a wireframe of a part of a bra I'm building. The lower edige is not just an "edge", I hope you can see the hexagonal cross section.

This particular cross section was created using the Loft tool of 3D Studio Max 6 (which is just another way of getting the same result). Here's how you do it starting out from a "flat" edige, like the images in the first post.

First, select the polygons on the edge. One or two rows (one is usually enough).
Detach those polygons to a separate object. Make sure the polys are cloned to a separate object, you don't want to remove them from the original clothing item!
I'm pretty sure Hexagon has an option to make a copy of the currently selected polygons and put them in the scene as a separate object. Don't know how to do it though, I don't have Hexagon.

Next, make sure the edge polygons are selected again, exactly the same selection as you started with.
Extrude the selection for 0.1 cm - we don't want ridiculously thick edges.
Beveling means shrinking or expanding the selected surface. Beveling by -0.05 cm will make the selected surfaces a litle smaller, which means that the perpendicular "rising" polygons we just created by extrusion will be "drawn in" a little, making for a smoother transition.

If you do the same to the copied polygons (invert their normals first), the extrusion will go INwards. Weld the two objects together and you'll have the hexagonal cross section edge. 

Hope this helps,

Steven.

Are there any dynamic cloth tutorials out there? Am I the only one who hates dynamic cloth?

Sheesh! That was quick! I see what you mean now:-)

Yup! I can do that in Hex (I think)....

Not sure the "Reversed Normals" is necessary in Hex to create the same effect, but it might well have an effect in the Cloth Room...

Hmmm... wonder if I can just edge-loop a "hem" then "add thickness" to it - will try that out as well.

Many thanks and,

Cheers,
Diolma

Poser determines the normal direction of a polygon by winding order. Since the "backfacing" polygons have a reverse winding order, their diagonal edges will also go in the opposite direction. If the front facing quad has a diagonal edge from lower left to upper right, the corresponding backfacing polygon has the diagonal edge running from upper left to lower right.

And this definitely makes a diference in the Cloth Room. It prevents the jaggies that are present in the first post.

darth_poserus: what do you want to know/learn? Using dynamic clothing, or creating dynamic clothing?

There's quite a few tutorials on using dynamic clothing around. One of the best is PhilC's video tutorial, free on his site www.philc.net.

You can also download the first chapter of my dynamic cloth tutorial here

As for tutorials on creating dynamic clohting, there's none that I know of. Actually, there are only a few rules:

• Create an uncut mesh. A cut mesh will fall apart on the seams in the cloth room.
• Use regularly shaped polygons (preferably quads) of roughly the same size as the polygons of the figure the cloth will match.
• Use one-sided meshes
• Model the cloth around the geometry of the figure that it will match. It's usually best to import the .OBJ geometry from the :runtime:geometries folder - it's in zero pose at zero position, which is best for modeling clothes (conforming and dynamic both).

Hope this helps,

Steven.

@ darth_poserus..**

**"There is a very good video tutorial with voice by Phil Cooke at:
www.philc.net (look under tutorials)."

(Quote from another thread)

@Steven...
"Poser determines the normal direction of a polygon by winding order. Since the "backfacing" polygons have a reverse winding order, their diagonal edges will also go in the opposite direction. If the front facing quad has a diagonal edge from lower left to upper right, the corresponding backfacing polygon has the diagonal edge running from upper left to lower right."

Yup. I knew that::-)

What I was wondering was what difference it made to the collisions. I had always thought that the Cloth Room had problems with cloth surfaces that faced towards the underlying (collision) figure. How nice it would be if that weren't the case:-)

Or do the low Collision/Depth Offset avoid that problem (I usually set my clothing offsets to 0.2 as a matter of course, but have never tried that with "inward-facing" polys)..

I am going to save this thread to HD - I'm learning a lot..

Cheers,
Diolma

(And alas, I must leave now - it's past my bedtime. CU tomorrow)

I'm not exactly sure, but I think Collision Offset and Collision Depth refer to the minimal  distances the cloth tries to keep between itself and objects "outside" resp. "inside" the cloth mesh. 
Anyway, the meshes I made like I described above behave pretty well in the cloth simulator.
Enable "Cloth self-collision" though, otherwise the "inside" and "outside" polygons may intersect and screw up the sim.

Not 100% sure what a Max Chamfered is.

But I can model a bra no problem.

I thought cloth had to be a plane.

Ya bra has cylinders in it ,thought poser wouldn't cloth stuff like that

Is it deferent for deferent versions of Poser or something ?

Thanks

RorrKonn
http://www.atomic-3d.com

Done a cloth with a cylinder around the collar.

It clothed the dress but not the collar,kool.

I've herd it said some stuff don't cloth.

Is there a rule book any where ?

Or do we just trail and error it ?

RorrKonn
http://www.atomic-3d.com

Actually, cloth does not have to be a (distorted) plane. It has to be a single sided mesh. 
That bra, and especially the blouse that will go over it, are still single sided meshes, built out of one single piece. 

As for a rule book, I would love one. The list I wrote down a few posts back is what I found out by trial and error.

If you are happier running your simulation with Collision depth/offset kind of high, but then you aren't quite so pleased with the result because the offset is too visible, a simple little trick is to just scale the finished/simulated cloth item down 1% or so to make it fit more snug against the body.

Poser 7 morphing tool is also VERY handy for cleaning up those tiny irritating little flaws that can happen (e.g. in RorrKon's first image you could simply smooth along the neck).

Well this thread is turning in to a book so,reckon will write one,well you all are doing all the righting thou.but I'm learning so keep writing :)

I wasn't aware that collision even existed till the 7th.

I've been doing alot of test renders been setting collision at .3,.1

Terrorizing all the setting and mesh if ya Tri the neck line helps also.

That one pose makes the shirt sleeve spiky more then other poses,also.

Don't have Poser 7,yet but it's on my to get list.

RorrKonn
http://www.atomic-3d.com