http://www.atomic-3d.com/rk-cf-top.jpg

As you can see my conforming top is not conforming correctly.

It's grouped.and works except for the arms.

Need help on making the arms work.

Thanks

RorrKonn
http://www.atomic-3d.com

I'm only just getting into conforming clothes myself, so I can't help with that at the moment.

However, looking at the mesh and design, I'd subdivide it a few times and make it dynamic, rather than conforming. I've had great success with similar clothing in the cloth room.

It's not the answer you're looking for, but the end result would look much better IMHO.

Looks like different material zones for shirt and figure at the arms.

It looks like you are posing the base figure's shoulder. I can see that your clothing does not contain a shoulder group but does your clothing contain shoulder joints?

Conforming clothes need one "extra" bone at each end to make it conform well. In this case, your shirt has right and left collar groups (and probably rCollar and lCollar bones). It will also need rShoulder and lShoulder bones.
Another thing: while the shirt doesn't have geometry for the hip and abdomen body parts, the rigging should include a hip bone and an abdomen bone.

Here's the complete bone hierarcy you'd need:
hip
   abdomen
       chest
           rCollar
               rShoulder
           lCollar
                lShoulder

Only the chest, rCollar and lCollar bones have geometries associated with them, the other bones are needed for the conforming.
Usually the joint parameters for the bones should be identical to those of the figure the cloth must conform to. It's a good starting point. Some joints might require some tweaking.

Hope this helps,

Steven.

This is how I rigged the shirt

Loaded A3

Loaded shirt.

Parented shirt to A3's chest.

Auto grouped.

This is the groups it made.

When I load the shirt in setup.

I do not see any bones

Is the shirt suppose to have it's own bones not A3 bones but the shirt is suppose to have it's Very own bones in it ?

Also don't ask me how but I got the shirt saved as a figure.

When I "conform to" A3 the shirt goes way out front.

Need help getting the shirt to "Conform to" also.

RorrKonn
http://www.atomic-3d.com

We got the end of the sleeve to work but we messed up the shirt.

I'm guessing it's my rigging I need to practice at.

I put A3's rig in the shirt

it just seems very very odd to rig cloths.

it "conforms to" correctly now :)

most of how poser works seems very odd to me.

I still don't know how I stuck the rig to the shirt.

RorrKonn
http://www.atomic-3d.com

http://www.atomic-3d.com/arms_up.jpg

Default the shirt set right.

Most poses does all right

Raze her arms up, chest and collar does wrong.

So how do we fix this ?

RorrKonn
http://www.atomic-3d.com

The chest and collar problem: this is Joint Controlled Morphs in action.
Aiko has morphs to raise/lower her breasts automatically when her arms are raised/lowered. Your shirt doesn't have those morphs. Actually, it SEEMS to have those morphs, since you put A3's rig in it, but the morphs don't work.

The shirt should be "cleaned up" first - it doesn't have Aiko's morphs and material zones. A handy tool that'll help you edit the shirt is CR2Builder by kim99 (free at http://www.globetown.net/~kim99/tool/CR2Builder/02k/indexe.html)

You can use this tool to strip out all "targetGeom" entries in the CR2 of your Aiko shirt. "targetGeom" entries are morphs.
You can also use this tool to strip out Aiko's material entries from the CR2. The materials are located in the "figure" node, way down in the tree.
Warning: the tool has no "undo" facility, so save often while you work with the tool!

Next, you have to put the correct morphs in your shirt. There's several ways to do this. 

First method: by hand. Cheap, since you don't have to buy any tools. But very, very time consuming. It consists of dialing each Aiko morph up to 1.000 in turn and using magnets to create a matching deformation in the shirt, then spawning morph targets. Creating matching morphs in Aiko's shirt for all applicable Aiko morphs will probably take days.

Second method: Netherworks Clothkit magnets. They work the same way as the first method, but the magnet settings and morph creations have been automated. Creating matching morphs for all applicable Aiko morphs will take a couple of hours, things are much faster than doing everything by hand.

Third method: The Tailor. Fastest and most automated, but also the most expensive method (don't know the price of The Tailor right now, but it's definitely more expensive than Netherwork's clothkit). Main disadvantage: the quality of the generated morphs greatly varies, from fairly well to abominable. 

My personal preference is using Netherworks' cloth kit to get the base deformation, and then use extra magnets to tweak individual pieces. This gives me good to excellent quality morphs in a reasonable time.

After you have created the morphs the shirt will still not automatically match Aiko's pose. If you want that to happen, you'll have to put in ERC (Enhanced Remote Control). There's a good tutorial on ERC on nerd3D's site (www.nerd3d.com)

As you can see, getting a simple shirt to work as a conformer is a LOT of work. The loose fit of the shirt suggests that it would perform very well as dynamic cloth - maybe one extra level of subdivision and you're done. No morphs and no rigging needed, and it'll look natural on Aiko no matter what pose you give her.

RorrKonn,

If you are coming from another 3D app, as I suspect you are, you'll find that Poser's rigging is a bit whacked! The problem in the chest is problably JCMs as svdl discribes above, some of the problem with the mesh in the shoulder area is probably due to the rather course mesh you have in that area, along with the "Spherical Falloff Zones" Poser uses (an older technique usually replaced by Weight Mapping in newer high end programs.

one good reference to the techniques of rigging in Poser is "Secrets of Poser Figure Creation in Poser 5 (and other programs)" by B.L Render. This book and/or PhilC's tutorial CD, explain most of the pitfalls and different riggin options used by Poser up to Victoria 4 and the G2 figures. I suggest this and PhilC's tutorial CD, not because I don;t want to explain this to you or cause you to spend money, but because they explain it much better and in more detail than I could, especially here in a thread!

These newer figures use Poser Magnets in a way that deforms the figures, creating the same effects as Joint Controled Morphs, with the wadvantage that a simple Pose file can tranfer the effect to the conformed clothing. This is something of a new technique in Poser and I must admitt that while I;ve used it sucessfully, I don;t really understand it. I can say that while I believe it to be an easier, and in general better system than the JCM's, it does have several quirks of it's own, at least in the G2 figures. 

I keep hoping to see a good, comprehensive tutorial on this technique, but if it's out there I've missed it.

mike

I hate Market Place search engine.

Cannot find any of these app's.

Netherworks Clothkit magnets

The Tailor

ERC (Enhanced Remote Control).

Need links or more clues, something,

"The tailor" is really wide, need to narrow that down somehow.

SVDL

Thanks alot for you help once again.

I know you could write a Poser book.

I am seeing if I can make conforming cloths.

Trav

Have no problem buying educational materials.as long as there on the PC.

No realife books thou, it's the 21st century ;)

Coming from TS,LW,C4D.

zBrush it's a odd app not like Poser but just as odd,fun thou.

If XSI would ever get a user friendly UI, I'll get it.

I am going to check out the plugs if I ever find them and learn how stuff is done in Poser.

But I have never seen another app rig characters and then rig cloths separately from the character that's just really odd to me.

I am just thinking out load here,don't even know how to do all this yet but

Why not delete the mesh under the shirt since we don't see it and just hook the shirt to A3's rig

One rig and no poke threw be easy enough to rig to.

Any thoughts on this idea ?

RorrKonn
http://www.atomic-3d.com

RoorKonn 

Here's a link to Netherworks site check their store for the morph kits svdl mentioned:
www.thenetherworks.com . I believe that DAZ3D also has a similar set of magnets for V4, but Netherworks covers most of the major Poser figures with various sets.

DAZ3D also sells the Tailor.

PhilC sells as program calle Wardrode Wizard at www.Philc.net that does similar work as the Tailor (in a lot of ways better, in others not as good depending on who you talk to, but it has the real advantage of being a Python based plug-in for poser.

ERC/JCM isn't an app, it's a technique used to hack the Poser Cr2 rigging file. To quote svdl the best information for it is at "After you have created the morphs the shirt will still not automatically match Aiko's pose. If you want that to happen, you'll have to put in ERC (Enhanced Remote Control). There's a good tutorial on ERC on nerd3D's site (www.nerd3d.com)"

Unfortunately BL Render's book is in paper, but I still highly recommed you get a copy. For years it was the Bible for character creation in Poser, and it's still covers the subject in more depth than any other.

Check Phil's site listed above for info on his CD tutorial. It was one of the first purchases I made and really taught me the basics of making Poser content. It's be updated continuously since then and has  lads of more information than the original I bought. Can;t recommend any other source higher.

Good luck,
mike